The “THIS is what it feels like to win a complete game” edition:

Ajinca: sweet suit, gotta give him that.

Alabi: at least he can use his Target card again.

Barbosa: rumour has it he had family in town to see him..and after seeing how he played tonight, I believe it. True he took a lot of shots, but he was in good spots most of the night and he was making people work to cover him. Top 3 game of the season for him.

Bargnani: 1 of 13. How does that roll off your tongue? He possibly may still be fighting “the flu” but he had a pretty poor return to the floor tonight. I’m sure Jay already has the video guys breaking his night down.

Bayless: bit more under control tonight, no? It’s like he sees the end of the season closing in and he figures he might as well slow down and relax.

Calderon: back down to earth but still willed this team to win. Had guys in good position, Reggie’s and Ed’s boards got him the ball, but you still gotta think he could have done a number on Collison a few times.

Davis: a double double feature event that will go down on the DVD they are creating to mark this rookie season. He is proving a lot of people fools who passed on him and he is quietly stealing teammates thunder without them knowing it.

DeRozan: speaking of someone who didn’t force it tonight, DeMar has to be put into that category. Some turnovers that could have hurt, but some nice makes that cancelled them out. His aggressiveness is beginning to wane, though….needs to get back to the stripe.

Dorsey: played some dirty bridge minutes. Inconsequential.

Evans: hello sir, would you like your massive rebounds back?  He did what he is supposed to do: attempt no shots, grab a bunch of boards and foul until they tell you to stop. Speaking of fouls, those pair of free throws in the second half (with the second one barely touching net) were probably the most hideous things I’ve seen since Megan Fox’s thumbs.

A. Johnson: pimp walkin’, injury restin’.

J. Johnson: quietly comes in, does his thing, and hopes to God that Jay doesn’t realize he isn’t as good as he thinks he is. So far it’s working and tonight was cookie-cutter for him since coming to the Raptors. Lather, Rinse, Repeat.

Kleiza: a recliner and some bratwurst. Nice.

Weems: sure, not as pretty as the other night, but he still didn’t suck like he has many nights before. I’m glad he’s angry because he should be. So should we be for paying to see him.

Wright: right.

Driving The Bus: Leandro Barbosa

Under The Bus: Andrea Bargnani

Game Theme:

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  • Cheese

    C 30:56 1-13 0-6 +15

    • TheR3dMenace


  • alvin

    enes kanter wouldn’t have gone 1-13, just sayin.

    • Michel G

      Lame. lol

  • Tank

    Lol, just getting a kick out of the post-game Granger quotes on Barbosa’s missed layup at the end of the game:

    “If I was on him I would have took his head off and been suspended for a game for a flagrant foul.”


    “If I was on him I would have took his neck off him. That’s unsportsmanlike. I would have taken his head off and busted his lip.”

    Well tough lucky there Danny, you guys did it do us last time in Indiana. Seems to me like he’s just bitter after losing 6 games in a row. I support what Barbosa did, just like I support pitchers throwing at batters if the opposing team did the same.

    Anyways, I suspect this was a Triano call, I support it.

    • Tank

      And I like Barbosa’s response: “You can’t give respect if you don’t get respect.”

    • Cheese

      isnt danny a jehovah witness?

      • the511

        Whatever he is, he doesn’t much look like a happy camper. The Pacers team in general, kind of make the Raptors look like a laugh-riot, in comparison.

        On Granger though, was wondering to myself if he’s sort of miserable by nature? … or if it’s more an environment thing? The reason I wondered is, I always kind of liked him, but it sounds like his stock has dropped off a bit, so … how would he look in a Raptors jersey? … and more importantly, could we get him for something reasonable? Might be a good acquisition for ole Bryan, if he could swing it. I bet he’d be happier, here … in the long run, anyway.

        • Theswirsky

          Danny Granger has really reminded me of Vince Carter over the past few season. Tons of potential, 0 heart.

          • the511

            Ya, that might be true. After saying what I said above, I searched around a bit to see what was what about him – ‘cause I haven’t seen much of him at all lately – and it sounds like nobody’s happy with much that he’s doing these days. Again though, is it the environment that’s making him drag his butt around? And would there be any hope of getting him re-energized, coming to a young team like the Raptors? Probably not. Also, he’ll be 28 in April – thought he was a bit younger for some reason – so … he’s probably not as good a candidate for reclamation as I was thinking a half hour ago. Unless the price was filthy-dirt cheap. But for the most part, I think I’ve changed my mind.

            • Theswirsky

              Danny Granger got the “he has potential so he can do no wrong” treatment for years. Maybe its the Indy environment lately, but to me he always spent too much time jump shooting, standing around on D and generally looking like he doesn’t care, for the majority of his career.

              So now when his potential is supposed to ‘show’ and he looks worse than previous years, fans/teams really get upset with a player. Not only that, his trade value has plummeted. (not that he can’t be traded, but last year or the year before I bet Indy could have gotten an amazing return for him). Really he has always shown what he is, but there was this hope that he would explode into something else.

              People (fans/teams) like to hitch their cart to a horse thats full of potential, rather one that has actually shown results. There is no shortage of potential in this league…. there is a shortage of results though.

              Its why I’m severely concerned about this team hitchings its cart to Bargnani.

              • the511

                ‘Liked’. I might be a dreamer, but I’m thinking that Colangelo sees everything we do … and as one who in the past had very high hopes for Bargs, the realities of the league and things as they are have certainly settled in enough to have me now feeling sure that the best we could do with Bargnani on the team is to have him coming off the bench (and maybe it’s ‘old habits die hard’ but I think he’d be great off the bench; maybe even ‘sixth man’ potential) so … how could Colangelo not think something similar, at least every now and then? I mean, he’s gotta see … . That said, he’d probably have to sacrifice Triano to make that change, to save face as much as anything.

                • Theswirsky

                  I’m in the exact same boat as you. Early (ie. his first couple years) he needs to be given a chance. Every player does. But he got that, and as time goes on and nothing changes…. reality should set in. Sixth man is the way he should be played… should have started about 6-10 games after Ed Davis played his first game this year.

                  I really do hope BC sees the same things we do, but somehow I doubt it. He didn’t see Bosh leaving. He thought no legitimate back up pg was worth taking a risk on (2 years ago). He thought a jump shooting team was short on jump shooters (Kapono). He thought Bargnani needed to be treated with kid gloves (firing Sam) and 3 years later he still stroking him with felt mitts. I do hope I’m wrong here, but it sure looks like the cart is hitched and heading down the road with a full grown horse that looks like a pony in hopes it will magically grow. Hey if not maybe it can be traded for some magic beans right?

    • sleepz

      If I am correct in that previous Indiana game Collison threw up a 3 to beat the shot clock and it went in late in the game. He could have dribbled out the 24 clock and given it Toronto but he didn’t. Triano made a huge fuss about it in the press conference. Yesterday there was 10 secs left on the GAME clock and Barbosa went in for a lay-up. Neither team should be arguing to be honest with you but if Triano took such major offence to it to begin with and called it unprofessional how does it justify Leonardos actions last night?

      It’s wack both ways but Triano is a huge hypocrite to even make it a point of issue to begin with and the time/shot clock scenarios were different as well.

      • Jay’s Mother

        Triano doesnt control what Barbosa does fool

  • Pesterm1

    I dont care if he went 1 for 13. kobe, wade they have bad shooting nights do. I am happy he stopped it there though. he knew it wasnt his night and didnt throw up 17 jump shots. he got to the line and scored his point and had a crucial offensive rebound in the last minutes. great game all around from every raptor. I dont see why sonny is mad… he is playing much better now and is more suited to a bench role.

  • Pesterm1

    great roll call by the way. it had possotives, and negatives but in gernal it was a good read, i like it when we win so much better lol

  • the bargs +15 plus/minus is the proof that, even if he has an off-night and shoots 1/13 he still open spaces for his teammates. and the derozan percentages when he’s on the floor is another evidence.

    • Theswirsky

      so we can use +/- now as an indicator of Bargs “worth”? Better be careful with that.

      • cesco

        In this particular game , not the game before or the game after , his team best +/- simply means that the 5 players units comprising Andrea outscored the opposition by 15 points . It would seem then that Andrea presence on the floor had a very positive influence on the play of the Raptors . Since he was not helping out very much with his own scoring , he must helped out in many other ways . Just to say that he does not deserve to be under the bus . I am not sure if anyone deserve to be under the bus in this game.

        • Theswirsky

          so what about when his +/- is a team low? It doesn’t apply then? What about his 41 pt 6 assist outing vs NY when he was a team low -9? Does that then not mean that even though he WAS scoring he must have NOT helped out in other ways? In fact was a liability while on the floor? Or can we ONLY look at this one particular game?

          What about where he stands vs his team in adjusted +/- (an arguably more accurate way of viewing it)? Can we use that aswell now, or does that not apply?

          Look I’m not arguing for or against +/- but there needs to be a consitency when looking at stats. Using +/- only when Bargnani is a team high (or positive), yet ignoring it when he is a team low (or negative) offers absolutely nothing but proving how bias his fan boys are (yes I can use the ‘bias’ card to.) It either is a legitimate stat or its not. There is no ‘sometimes’.

          • cesco

            I completely agree that +/- stats should not be used to justify a player contribution to the game . However in this case , whether it was Andrea or another player with the best +/-, putting that player under the bus (because AltRaps has to choose one) would demand a rebuttal . Like I said , the 5 players units Andrea was on outscored the Pacers by 15 points , enough said.

            • Theswirsky

              but why “in this case”? And why is a rebuttal a stat that “should not be used to justify a player contribution to the game”? How is anyone being “rebutted” with inaccurate information?

              • Nilanka15

                Havent you learned yet? We should only count positive Bargnani stats. All other stats should be dismissed 😛

          • RapthoseLeafs

            [ “Using +/- only when Bargnani is a team high (or positive), yet ignoring it when he is a team low (or negative) offers absolutely nothing but proving how bias his fan boys are … “]

            Actually Theswirsky,
            One could state that the opposite is true – a negative +/- is used too often to bolster a poor performance by AB.

            I rarely use the plus/minus stat to say AB had a good game. It’s a bogus stat by itself, but it does serve a purpose in reinforcing other factors. In the case of Bargs, it backs up what I thought was a decent game by him – outside of the off-kilter 12 shots he took (I don’t count that quarter ending shot from 100 feet away).

            Even Jay knew he needed Bargs out there. AB changed the complexity on the Court (ask Hibbert) – that’s why he played so much, even though he was doing his best Casper imitation.
            This was a type of win, that for me pokes holes in the Wins Produced stat. Barg’s WP would surely show a negative influence, yet from watching the game (and that being reinforced by his team best +/- ), Andrea`s presence was one of the big factors to why we won so handily.

            Had we shot better from the 3 pt line (.250) and/or did better at the Free throw line (.600), this game would’ve been a runaway ‘no looking back’ win.

            • Theswirsky

              indeed. Here we are again

              “I rarely use the plus/minus stat to say AB had a good game. It’s a bogus stat by itself”

              yet here we are on the rare occasion you (and others) use it is when his +/- is good. Why is it therefore bogus to use it other times? If its ‘bogus’ it should not be used period. If its ‘bogus’ it does not reinforce “Andrea’s presence as one of the big factors to why we won so handily”.

              “This was a type of win, that for me pokes holes in the Wins Produced stat”

              Wins produced is used over a longer period of time. Consider that when looking at Bargnani’s +/- over a longer period of time (longer than one isolated instance) its is also poor. Hardly think this pokes any holes in Wins Produced.

              “a negative +/- is used too often to bolster a poor performance by AB”

              indeed it has been, and at those times his fan boys (some inparticular) talked about how inaccurate and useless it is. Now those same are saying what it does indicate and how it proves Andrea is doing the little things. So which is it?

              I know….. as with any stat its accurate when it makes Andrea look good but inaccuarte when it makes Andrea look bad. Hypocracy? I think so.

              • RapthoseLeafs

                I need to clarify my comment a little better.

                I based AB`s performance on actually seeing the game. Reading how inept he was (at scoring), even though he was under the weather (and looked it), I had to question this perception.

                I do have little faith in the plus/minus BY ITSELF, or as a small group of stats. However, it can provide ONE part to several reasons why someone did well. If AB was a plus 4 (like Demar), or 0 (like Davis), or +2 (like Jose), then it has little relevance as a reinforcement to my belief he played well.

                But when a plus/minus is substantial (relative to others), it tends to dispute what some are calling a bad game. I don’t use it to say Bargs played a good game. I simply use it (with other stats), to refute a biased perception out there. Nothing more.

                If Bargs has a stat line of -30, while everyone else is better than say -15 , then one can say he had a negative influence. In this respect, it sorta becomes like a `red flag`. And if it reinforces other stats, then I have no problem identifying a bad game by Andrea.

                Bargnani’s 1-12 was evident. To him especially. Maybe not to Jose when he gave him the ball with the shot clock almost down, and knowing AB was off – that was unfortunate. Andrea didn’t want to shoot the ball, but he had to. It was either that, or a shot clock violation. Point is, you could see Bargs knew that.

                In all this “he’s only good for offense” blabbering, I thought Andrea played pretty decent on defense last night. Hibbert’s line was crap. And while their Front Court scored atypical to what Raptors normally allow (63 points), the Pacers (as a whole), only managed 33 Points in the Paint (versus 43 normally allowed by the Raps). Combine these stats, and others (like plus/minus), and you have a certain level of proof that Andrea played fairly well.

                So my apologies if it came across anything different.

                • Theswirsky

                  “plus/minus BY ITSELF, or as a small group of stats. However, it can provide ONE part to several reasons why someone did well”

                  so if this is true, then it also stands to reason that the opposite is also true. ie. It can provide one part to several reasons why someone does not play well. Correct?

                • cesco

                  Correct , you can use the +/- as one of the reasons why a player played well or poorly . Rapthoseleafs , A-Dub and Jack are/were saying that they liked what they saw of Andrea in this game despite his poor shooting (probably due for lack of practice while sick ) .

    • alvin

      suck a dick you stupid italian, the guy goes 1/13 and you’re explaining why he won us the game. the nerve of some people….

      • C.d.G.

        You fucking handicapped canuck!
        Why don’t you dare to say the same words on a black person and go to jail, if you’re such a tough boy?

  • dribbles

    I’m sorry, I’m usually a nice person but if there are people saying Bargs had an ok game because of his +/- or because he stopped shooting after he realized he was 1 for 13, those people need to be told to get off his dick. Seriously, stop trying to suck Andrea Bargnani’s penis. You can’t do that over the internet anyway. The guy is a net positive on the court, probably, if he scores 25 or more quite efficiently. That’s it. No, there’s no room for argument because there is no evidence showing that he’s good at anything but scoring. Just leave it alone, and back away from your computers. Jesus, what’s the matter with people?

    • oh, you’re the man! that’s a good argument. it seems you’re obsessed with bargs dick, maybe he’s still fucking your mama every night?

      • dribbles

        Listen, you can talk as tough as you like defending one of the softest and heartless “big men” to every play, but if your hero played with even half as much fake toughness as you type with, I might like him a tad more. And by the way, my mom is in her 60s so if Bargs is fucking her, I think that reflects more poorly on him. I don’t know, maybe you’re into the senior citizens though. To each their own.

        And @John, I never point to one off +/- to justify anyone’s performance. There are things called advanced stats, and almost all of them point to the fact that Bargs hurts the team more than he helps. People can choose to ignore those as much as they want. I’m just so fucking tired of seeing people defend a guy, even when he has a terrible offensive game, when everyone and their mother (Francesco’s included) knows the guy doesn’t help much anywhere else 90% of the time.

    • John

      So I guess +/- works only to justify Amir Johnson’s performance 😉 🙂

  • RapthoseLeafs

    Completely disagree with Andrea being “under the Bus”. That just strikes me as a biased analysis.

    I did watch the game, and while AB had a off shooting night (on really only 11 shots), without his presence on the court, this was either a very close win (down to the wire), or a loss. With Amir out, and had Bargs skipped this one, that would have left a Front Court of Davis, Reggie and Dorsey.

    In fact, I was happy with the “Casper” performance.

  • Raptor4Ever

    It is great to see Davis starting and getting comefortable beside AB. I am not sure when Amir will be back but I hope Jay keeps him on the bench when he belongs.

    The future starting front line for Raptors is AB and Davis which has a great balance for both offence, defence.

    With the emergence of DD as a reliable SG, BC needs to move both Kleiza and Amir this season and use the money to get a legitimate SF.

    However, this is easier said than done since both guys are quite over paied.

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!

    Jay aka Company Man is a straight up Bush League coach and his allowing Barbosa to shoot that last second shot is proof of that. He should have shown Indy how to win with class not worried about getting payback for Collison’s shot.

    As well, Jay tried to call a t/o in Indy after Collison’s shot (which happened as the shot clock ran out not at the very end of the game w/ no shot clock) with 1 point something left on the clock but the ref didn’t allow it.

    But Jay is a petty vengeful person (wouldn’t shake CB’s hand but he shook Nash’s hand) as his personality has shown.

    This game showed how Reggie’s 12 rebounds per game are more important than Barg’s 20ppg in overall team success.

    • hotfuzz

      I think barbosa shooting that last shot was great, it showed the ‘we don’t give a sh!t about your team, we are coming after you’ attitude that this team desperately needs.

      Raptors have been pushovers for way too long now.

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!

        Now what if every team started doing that to the Rap’s?

        It’s an unwritten NBA/basketball rule that you don’t take the last shot with no shot clock left when the game is out of reach.

        It’s about respecting the game. Like I said Jay is Bush League- see it, believe it, achieve it.

        I thought BC wanted nice, refinedcharacter guys?

        Blame BC for making the Rap’s pushovers as he is both the President & GM of Raptor basketball not reboundball.

        This team needs more than attitutde they need a complete organizational overhaul from BC to Gheradini to Jay to Jose & Barg’s- they have all got to go away from Raptor basketball.

        • hotfuzz

          First of all, i really don’t believe Jay has the balls to tell barbosa to do something like that. That decision to shoot the ball late was all bosa. He is just a mere puppet of BC and tells the team whatever BC wants them to do, if this was not the case we would see bargs being benched more often.

          Secondly, i agree that it’s unsportsmanlike to take a shot that late. But if the other team is going to make such a douchey play, someone has to give them a dose of their own medicine. The NBA sure as hell is not going to do anything about it, so it’s up to the teams to teach them a lesson.

          I have heard way too many fans complaining that the raptors take too much sh!t and should stick up for themselves, well guess what someone just did and you don’t like it?

          As Bosa said “If you don’t give respect, you don’t get respect”, and that’s the way it should be.

          As for this team, yes there are lot of problems with this team and this cut throat attitude is those things that’s really needed.

      • sleepz

        Why then did he make a point of emphasis to complain about it in the press conference in Indiana?

        While the scenarios were different I would have respected him far more if he didn’t whine about it and then try and do something worse the next game. Don’t be a hypocrite, either play the same way and refrain from whining about it when you’re on the short end or be the one to set and preserve the example