The “we had it in the bag the whole time” edition:

Ajinca: not even a sniff tonight. Why use him against guys with height? That would make NO sense.

Alabi: come home soon.

Barbosa: poor shooting night, but he made it to the line and played with his trademark energy, which kept us hanging on in the fourth when Andrea disappeared for a long stretch.

Bargnani: guess someone slipped him some ColdFX since he played out of his mind (compartively speaking). Yes, he flashed back to his recent self in the fourth and seemed unwilling to pop a shot, but the rest of the game he was what we always dreamed of. Factor in his 18 appearances at the line and his 500th 3pter as a Raptor and it was a night to celebrate.

Bayless: this guy is as helpful as border patrol. Seriously of no help to us on most nights and tonight proved it.

Calderon: on a night when two of your guys score in the 30s and you only have 6 assists to show for it, you know something was amiss. Still, he followed Jays orders and shot as often as possible and, granted, he kept his head in the game, but something was a touch off.

Davis: brief appearance, some solid rebound numbers and, when on the floor, he looked like he should be in the tournament, not in the NBA. Two games like that in a row, so he needs some help.

DeRozan: hot game tonight, pumping in 30, doing a constant trip to the line, and forcing us to remember that, yes, he can be this damn good.

Dorsey: bye bye bye.

Evans: he was Calderon-like in the late stages, dropping FTs in like they were guaranteed. Have to admit he seems to have improved that part of his game and when you consider we needed that positive energy at the time, and his 15rebs off the bench, he was the third star.

A. Johnson: gave in the college try for 15minutes. Was far from normal but it will take him a couple of games. I just hope he can get back to the way he was to finish the season to give him some confidence heading into the season that never was.

J. Johnson: 5 assists from your forward is welcome, but his paltry effort otherwise was not. I’m convinced it’s the haircut.

Kleiza: going to be in the next Ke$ha video playing a bum.

Weems: 12 minutes in which he showed us why he will be a D-League allstar next year. More power to him.

Wright: dubious.

Driving The Bus: Andrea Bargnani

Under The Bus: Jerryd Bayless

  • The Rawth

    Nice Roll Call.
    Loved seeing some of the Raptors players frustration when Reggie comes flying through and nabbing their rebounds, even prying out of James J’s hands once haha.
    Good game but was a little scared towards the end when they caught us and at the same time where Bargs was missing shots. He played very well overall, minus his rebounding numbers (stolen by Reggie ahah) and seemed as if he was doing a bit of play making aswell, often given the ball by Jose and doing something with it , 5 assists.

  • rockstar

    sounds like you have a thing for Ajinca

  • Balls of Steel

    Bayless is frustrating. He’s got the speed and not much else! He needs to cut back on the “HERO” pills and just play and facilitate. He seems to be competing with Barbosa every time both of them are on the floor!

    • I hate Bayless

      Its obvious Bayless knows there’s no room in the lineup for both of them. For someone advertised by the con-man to have defensive abilities, the complete opposite is true (oh sorry, I fell for the con again). Other than the Detroit game in Dec., Bayless has shown us no reason to believe he’s capable to be any bit of a worthy backup pg or combo guard. Even more troublesome is his tendency to glare at his teammates for missed rotations.

      • Smushmush

        Bayless imo has a limited time in the league after his rookie contract ends. If I were him, I will be preparing for the Euroleague instead at the end of the rookie contract lmao. He can not pass and the shooting, he is known for as a combo guard is inefficient to say the least. Couple that with his primadonna attitude and “god” (or “small man”) complex, he is a team cancer imo which is why he has been bounced around teams in his short career. My 2 cents.

  • Eh

    33 points, 18 trips to the free-throw line, and 8-15 FG for Bargnani.

    Now watch the haters point to his 3 rebounds lol.

    • Balls of Steel

      I was going to but Reggie even stole the thought from my head!

      • hotfuzz

        lol, nice one

    • cesco

      you forgot the 5 assists .

    • Pesterm1

      thw rebond thing is almost pointless to bring up when reggie is puling down 15 rebounds, know what i mean.

    • Eric

      Hiding behind a key board and waiting for AB’s next game hoping he has a bad one so they can come and say Amir has the most positive influence in this team !!! :)

      Tim , Are you around ?

    • Ferdibook

      His game is all about a cycle. He goes hot one day and then disappears the next 10 games.

      You can relate to this with a pick up game in basketball. You shoot 10 shots in a game and miss all of them. Then you play another pick up game and you get hot hitting all 5 shots in a row.

      You wouldn’t put your money on this type of game. You would rather me More consistent and do a little of everything when you are not shooting well. So yes, we are hating on his effort, which reflect his rebound numbers.

      He needs to go. His imbalance as your bias towards his game

    • KJ-B

      It’s too bad that the rest of the league doesn’t have the roster of the Washington…err, Generals?! Or the Raps would be would’ve gone 98-0 this year including the playoffs!

    • pran

      really? are we just going to forget that the wizards are record setting bad on the road.

  • WhatWhat

    Of course we get a Black Swan sighting in the most important tanking game of the season.

    • WhatWhat


      Ed Davis: 12 minutes
      Reggie Evans: 27 minutes


    • iRaptors

      Don’t worry, plenty of time for tanking in this next stretch of games:

      Thunder, Nuggets, Suns, Warriors, Clippers over a span of 7 days.

      5 free losses 😀

      • Smushmush

        Thunder = Loss, they clearly as a playoff team will not lose the season series to a bottom feeder like us and Kevin Durant is playing this time

        Nuggets = Loss, I hope Raptors fans don’t call for Triano’s head after this one and the team is not broken mentally as that might likely happen – teams going to Denver, Colorado to play the Nuggets get smoked there because of the altitude and faster pace, the Nuggets play with there knowing the altitude saps energy out of the opposing teams by the second half and this could likely be a 20-30 point loss but knowing the Raptors as a jump-shooting and no-defense team, this could get really ugly a la 40 point loss ugly sigh.

        Suns = Loss, they are in a playoff race. “Nuff said.

        Warriors = Loss, Monta Ellis runs rough shod over opponents at home and couple that with our no-defense and Stephen Curry always ripping us a new one at the three point line – this could get really ugly.

        Clippers = Loss, The Clippers are clearly exciting at home, they give a good show to their fans. Nothing to see here sigh.

        If the Raptors guys imo get a win after a likely Denver debacle, this season might just be worth it. My 2 cents.

    • Eric

      Make Up your mind pal. do you want AB to play now or you want him to just Fuck up so you and your buddies can criticize him here.

      • WhatWhat

        What the hell are you talking about? I was just trying to say how bittersweet it is to see Black Swan when we needed those lottery balls. The Wizards tank on the road is just too strong.

        I didn’t even watch the game, but he defintely scored enough to make up for his (probably) poor defense and the lack of rebounding.

      • Jerry

        They want him to fuck up so him and his buddies can post on here. Even though I’m new to posting on this site, I am not new to reading the same shit everytime. That is whats so frustrating, people who claim to be fans, almost always wishing the worst out of one of our players.

        • Theswirsky

          nobody wants him to “fuck up”. Everyone wants him to be a success. The difference is some people think he is/has been successful…. others don’t see it that way.

          He is completely inconsistent. He doesn’t do the things that are needed out of a big man.

          And while its great that he got to the ft line 18 times, but its not like he does that regularily. (double digit fts 4 times this year).

          So like everything else…. its great when he does stuff well (rebounds, plays D, gets to the ft line, shoot efficiently etc), but he does it so rarely and inconsistently there is no reason to expect him to do it on a nightly/regular basis. In fact he is more likely to do a poor job at it than a good job at it,

          10+ fts 4 times…… 2 or less 8 times
          8+ rbs 11 times …. 3 or less 15 times
          shot 50%+ 21 times …. 45% or less 31 times

          • Jerry

            Yes but despite what he does, people on this site will always find a reason to crap on him. Also, his scoring is consistent, because he’s a top 20 scorer in the league, despite the fact teams game plan around him. Also i never said he was a franchise player, but he is a good player at a good price tag. He was labelled a franchise player by people in the media, but he isnt being paid as one so you cant expect him to produce as one.

            • Theswirsky

              ‘good’ scoring is relative.

              His % is bad. Below average for the league… well below average for a big.

              • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!


                Barg’s is a volume scorer ie 20 shots for 20 points while offering little else positive on the court for the Rap’s if his shot is not falling.

          • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

            Barg’s aka Mr Basketball not Reboundball has only has 2 double doubles on the year- and 1 happened in ot over in Europe against NJ.

            Ed already has more rebounds than Barg’s despite just playing half the minutes (& missing an early part of the season due to injury) of Bargnani.

            Barg’s is a 7 foot SG/SF who leaves his teammates hanging when it comes to in the paint rebound banging.

        • pran

          not true, imo the only thing holding andrea back from being a legitimate scorer (like dirk) is the ability to get to the line with some regularity. Defensively he is too frustrating to watch.

        • Jerry’s Tiny Willy

          Bargnani stinks dude. One good scoring game against one of the worst teams in the league isn’t going to change that.

          • Jerry

            The guy is a top 20 scorer. Its obviously not one good scoring game. Are you new to basketball because the PPG category is an average of your points over the course of the year, not just against the Wizards.

    • KJ-B

      Was thinking the eXact same thing re: “Black Swan Skates on Ice” and also as to why Reggie was allowed to be unleashed late in the 4th instead of playing the Big Rook, but then I looked at the sched: OKC, DEN, PHX… Sight for sore eyes I tell ya!

  • Mantra

    Was it true that there were chants of MVP for Reggie at the ACC? Forget Derrick Rose, give it to the Madman Evans.

  • Jerry

    the people on this site are a complete joke. Its so painfully obvious that it doesnt matter what Bargs does, people will always crap on him. What’s even more ridiculous is the suggestion that they instantly become a better team by getting rid of him and placing some rebounding slug in his place. I will be the first to admit his shortcomings, but you can’t deny that without him in the lineup this team would struggle mightly to score the ball. This team has 2 scorers, and DeRozan is not good enough to do it on his own. I’m not saying that Andrea is the “man” or anything but he isnt being payed like a franchise player so its unrealistic to put that on him.

    • Ff

      Bargnani = Mike James.

      • Jerry

        Are you serious? Wow if that isnt the most ignorant comment I ever read. Anyways you guys got your narrowminded view on the guy and theres no point in trying to argue this because it doesnt matter what he does, people will always find a reason to crap on him.

    • Statement

      I don’t think Bargs is a Franchise player,

      Also for the record, Mike James career offensive rating = 105

      Bargnani = 103

      Mike James Career Win Score/48 = 0.08
      Bargs Career Win Score/48 = 0.06

      Mike James salary with the Raps – 3 million
      Bargs salary with the Raps this year – 8.5 million.

      Lets trade Bargs for Mike James!

    • Come back Glen Grunwald

      Only the con-man GM should be blamed for the travesty. Barney is too soft to be a centre and why after 5 yrs do we continue to have undersized power forwards in the lineup (Evans,Amir,Ed,Dorsey) when what we need is a defensive centre to complement Barney like Chandler provides for Dirk. Yeah, yeah, I know Colangelo will tell us he had Tyson all lined up for us if it wasn’t for MJ blocking the trade … but really did anyone really believe another of one of his cons.

      • Smushmush

        Unfortunately, going by the polling on this site – the Raptors still believe the con-man otherwise called the used car salesman can take them to the promised land despite the horrible record the man has compiled and a patchwork of a roster after 5 years. They clearly are under the BC Koolaid effects – we can’t help them. If BC were with any other serious basketball franchise, fans would be calling for his head and BC will not bother asking for an extension but with the Raptors fans scared of another Rob Babcock and prefer the status quo as they are clearly risk averse, BC can get his extension. I am just going to say one thing – the losing in Toronto has clearly gotten to the fans that they are scared of even getting worse which is a main reason for their new found risk aversion and love for the status quo even though the status quo is horrible. My 2 cents.

        • Theswirsky

          the most ironic part? The biggest supporters of BC tend to be the biggest supporters of Bargnani.

          • Balls of Steel

            That’s not ironic, it’s appropriate.

            • Theswirsky


              … I was thinking more the peole that ride the fence on Bargnani but think BC has done a bad job matching up players with him. Yet you have the guys who love bargnani still love BC despite that.

          • Dan

            Even more ironic is that you, smushsmush, ihatebayless, and a slew of other anti-Raptor folks are all the same person, going under different aliases. I can tell by your rhetoric and the never-ending agreement with “one another”. I guess you do this to make your point come across as more legitimate.

        • Jerry

          While the team has struggled mightly this season, you cant ignore the first two seasons, and I think the reason why people are willing to give him the benefit of the doubt is because he is willing to take a chance and he is willing to correct a mistake. You cant deny that when he acquired Jermaine O”Neal, Marrion, Hedo, people were all kissing this guys ass and were praising him. So it’s kind of hypocritical to shit on the guy when it doesnt work out like we all expected. While I havent liked all his moves, what gives me hope giong forward is the fact that he has an excellent draft record. Bargnani, DeRozan and Ed Davis are all top five players from their draft class, which is a rather impressive draft record.

          • Theswirsky

            “You cant deny that when he acquired Jermaine O”Neal, Marrion, Hedo, people were all kissing this guys ass and were praising him.”

            and there were others saying how dumb those moves were. While I was ok with O’neal and Hedo moves initially, I’m not gonna act like there weren’t a slew of people against them. Just because you or I at the time thought they were good/acceptable doesn’t mean everyone else did to.

            • khandor

              It’s important for you to acknowledge this reality.

              • Theswirsky

                Khandor… I’m not sure it that was a response to myself or Jerry, but you are about the last person who should tell someone else to acknowledge reality.

                • khandor

                  REALITY is that …

                  I was one of those few NBA observers who said, in advance, that the Raptors’ trades for Jermaine O’Neal, Shawn Marion and Hedo Turkoglu were each going to turn out badly for Toronto, and that Bryan Colongelo was someone who didn’t actually know what he was doing, as an NBA GM, if those acquisitions were the type he thought would move the franchise in a positive direction.

                  Unlike those who, either:

                  i. Condoned the supposed “rightness” of those moves, at the time they were made; or,

                  ii. Only condemned the supposed “wrongness” of those moves, after-the-fact [as a form of spilled milk];

                  everything which I’ve said about the right/wrong-ness of the Raptors personnel moves:

                  A. Has been outlined PRIOR to them happening; and,
                  B. Turned out to be quite accurate.

                  You are free to live in an “alternate” reality, if you wish to do so.

                • Theswirsky

                  you were one who disagreed with that stuff. But you were not one of FEW. I know this because I debated it with a lot of different people.

                  As for alternate realities… how about you finish up that Pat Riley discussion we started?

                • khandor

                  In REALITY …

                  Whether YOU debated with plenty of OTHERS has zero bearing on whether I was one of a few who made their criticisms of those specific personnel moves known to all, in a public way, in advance.

                  PS. FWIW, I have already concluded what I have to say about your interpretation of an alternate reality concerning the views of Pat Riley.

                • Theswirsky

                  and its fine that you criticized his decisions moves etc. in advance. But don’t act as if you were the only one, or one of the “few” who did so. There were plenty… and that is reality.

                  yes I read your conclusion. That a line up that played less than a combined total of less than 19 minutes (by is Miami’s best lineup. (I’m still waiting for you link so I can see what the exact minute total of that line up is because its not indicated there). However it DOESN’T answer the question of whether Pat Riley see’s Bosh as a C. On the contrary… the very fact that Bosh has played so few minutes at C would indicate the exact opposite. Again Khandor… reality.

                • khandor

                  1. Name one other so-called ‘NBA expert’ who said, IN ADVANCE, that EACH of those personnel moves would turn out badly for the Raptors.

                  2. Just because Miami has been unable to play the 5-man unit which I described as their best right now for major minutes so far this season does not mean that this group is somehow less than their best. There are different reasons why a particular team’s coaching staff might decide not to go with their squad’s best 5-man unit for copious amounts of PT in the regular season. Unfortunately, however, this is not the proper place for me to explain those to you.

                • Guest

                  stfu….you pompous arrogant delusional cunt.

                • Theswirsky

                  1. “name one other NBA expert”

                  theirs your first problem. You include yourself in the category of “expert” and expect other to aswell.

                  2. “copious” amounts? Less than 19 minutes is a not ever relevant amount.

                  again REALITY

                • khandor

                  1. I expect nothing from you or others.

                  2. You are free to think of me however you wish; that is YOUR perogative.

                  3. What you consider to be relevant, is what you consider to be relevant; that is YOUR perogative.

                  e.g. In Game 6 of the 1979-80 NBA Finals, YOU might not think it “relevant” that Magic Johnson [i.e. future Lakers’ All-time Great] played center for the FIRST TIME in his career. In YOUR version of reality, the Lakers’ line-up in that game was “irrelevant” … because it was the first time LA had used Magic in that capacity all season long. I will not try to change YOUR mind, or YOUR perception of reality.

                • Dookielove

                  you’re like one of those kids on american idol who thinks they can sing and unfortunately not a friend not family member has ever been honest with them.

            • Jerry

              I am saying the majority of people loved the moves, and I challenge anyone to produce material that they published criticizing the moves prior to the eventual outcome, because I know I can produce 3x as much of people who loved those moves, specifically from media types and basketball analysts.

              • Theswirsky

                go back and read here and RapsHQ. I’m sure you will find a slew of people who hated them, disliked them, were indifferent to them.

                PS Media ‘types’ and Raptors analysts love anything the GM (past or present) does. When was the last time you heard Jack, Devlin, Leo, Swrisky, Eric Smith, Doug Smith etc say… “man thats a stupid move, that guy won’t turn out”

              • Statement

                Jerry, just cause 3x the people liked the moves (though i highly doubt it with Hedo) does NOT mean that they were good moves.

                The “3x” people you quote are fans, not paid professionals whose aim it is to accurately gauge talent.

                B.C. Failed. And seriously, you found 3x the number of people who liked the Hedo F’N Turkaglu signing? Really? You must know a lot of casual fans.

  • CalgaryRapsFan

    I really like the chemistry that Bargnani and DeRozan seem to be developing. Several times Calderon ran a high P&R with Bargnani and, instead of shooting, he found a cutting DeRozan with a perfect pass for an easy jumper from about the foul line. I would really like to see more set plays like that where the two of them can play off each other.

    • khandor

      It was against the Washington Wizards … who were fielding a line-up that had almost zero chance of winning last night’s game.

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!

    Good win for the Rap’s!!

    West coast slaughterhouse road trip coming up- will Rap’s steal a game or two?

  • Chris

    3rd 30 point game for Derozen this month!

  • BobMcadoo

    Bargnani only 5 assist tonight. Trade this soft Euro. lol

    • Eric

      and Only 33 points and went to the line 18 times. Damn Softi, trade him NOW.

      • Statement

        Against the Wizards.


        I’ll take the 4+ years of crappiness as the final evaluator.

        • Guest

          one game??? seriously how many games have you watched this season he has had MORE than ONE good game this season just because you hate him dont be delusional he has had more than one good game

          • Nilanka15

            Sure, he’s had more than 1 good SCORING game (completely ignoring defense and rebounding), but even those games are in between 5-6 completely shitty games.

  • sangaman

    Reggie is back and the team is winning..Coincidence? All the raps need is a guard version of the regster–

  • Kyle

    am I the only one who is pissed we won? this is just another lost lottery ball. We want the Wizards to catch/pass us and winning a MEANINGLESS game that gives up win 19 is retarted! Minisotta won and now has 17 wins to. I want the best pick possible I dont wana draft 5th when we coulda been at 3 or 2, STOP WINNING NOW

    • Nilanka15

      It’s about time someone speaks some common sense around here.

    • RapsM

      DAMN IT! Winning sucks!

      • Kyle

        actually douhbag it does when its game 72 and we’ve already lost close to 50 of them. who gives a shit about winning a game against the wizard; a team who is right behind you. this win probably lost us some lottery balls you shit head

        • cesco

          Why the insults ? . The team management , coaches and players never gave any indication that they want to tank . The proof is in the fact that Evans is playing heavy minutes . So if they wanted to win this game badly (before going out west and be clobbered) why can’t some of us fans enjoy the win also ? .

          • Kyle

            you can enjoy it all you want. still makes you a dumb ass, why would you want to beat a shity wizards team? did it give you satifsfaction? everygame we’ve played in the last 3 months has been meaningless, just pingpong balls in the lottery. a smart fan would be cheering every loss

  • minks77

    The Bargs fanboys are out in full force daring the haters to call him out for something. Well, eff Bargs. I mean are you really gonna act like his scoring really means all that much? When dudes like McGee and Booker were getting whatever they wanted and Washingtons guards were getting layup after layup where was your hero? Not getting rebounds thats for sure. Not boxing out (Mcgee and Books had 12 off reb between them) that’s for sure.

    It was great seeing AB get to the line 15 times in the first half. Only 3 in the second half to go along with his Mr Invisible routine while the Wiz made a run. Against any better a team and we lose this game.

    Andrea Bargnani: Half man, Half a game.

    • Nilanka15

      Dude, it’s absolutely HILARIOUS seeing all the fanboy comments regarding Bargnani’s worth based on last night. I mean, it was against the Washington Generals for crying outloud. Don’t worry about the last 5 years of shitty play, last night is all you need to know.

      Put Bargnani in the hall of fame!!! Yay points!!!

      Bargnani is a fucking joke of a player. And the faster BC realizes this, the faster we stop being a fucking joke of a franchise.

      • Jerry

        I would love nothing more then to see who you would crap on if Bargs wasnt here. I love how people like you trivialize points as if anyone can be a top 20 scorer.

      • Abe

        You’re exaggerating it moron, no one is calling him a hall of famer. Washington generals? Let’s see you put up just 1 point, just 1, against a NBA franchise. That would be hilarious.

        • Nilanka15

          LOL, good argument. While not knowing anything about my basketball skills, comparing me against a pro team is what you use to backup Bargnani. Hilarious!

          • Guest

            Wow a fucking joke of a player are you serious???? this guy has has some skills just becuz rebounding and defense isnt one doesnt mean he is not a good player

            • Nilanka15

              Actually, that’s EXACTLY why he’s not a good player. A big man who can’t defend or rebound is as useless as tits on a nun.

              He’s as good as a shooting guard who can’t shoot, or a point guard who can’t pass.

          • Abe

            Lol so you admitted it, it’s a “pro team.” Thanks for proving my point dumbass.

            • Nilanka15

              I suppose the concept of exaggeration is new to you.

              March break is over. Get back to class and learn something before embarrassing yourself online.

              • Abe

                Lol you just made yourself look like an idiot, and now you’re mad about it, think twice before you type hahaha. Get out of here dummy.

  • Alex Taylor

    I like Bargani, I like Derozan, but Reggie makes this team go… don’t want to think about our draft position if he’d been healthy all year…

    • Eric

      BC needs to move Amir Johnson and keep Evans instead.

      • minks77

        I don’t think you’d get much for Amir as I think he is greatly undervalued and has shown real progress with the fouling issues this year.

        Although I am a hater I think Andrea could really net us a solid low post guy (Kaman? Haywood? Okafor?) and that’s the only position I feel the Raps should trade for. They have a bunch of young forwards, keep Reggie and trade AB for a true pivot and watch the young guys grow and the D finally become respectable.

      • Alex Taylor

        Don’t know if I’d go that far… Can’t expect Evans to go 48 mins and sometimes you need that offense.

  • Tim W.

    People complain that I criticize Bargnani too much, but then insult me and call me out on a thread I haven’t said anything. And for the record, he was great on offense, but his defense was still awful.

    • AnthonyF

      You know what Tim…. I agree with you….. However no one stopped Booker all night…. As for Bargnani in the 4th…. A few in and outs, missed 2 free throws and we won…. I guess the first 3 quarters meant nothing??? As a twist to Nilanka and his silly line….. Yay Defense……..

      • Tim W.

        I had no complaints about either Bargnani or DeRozan’s offense last night. Both had stellar games.

        On defense, neither played well. The difference is that Bargnani is a big man, where poor defense hurts the team more, and that DeRozan is only in his 2nd year. As I said, if DeRozan is still a poor defender in year 4, I’ll be the first calling to ship him away.

        • Fukwit

          every big man bargs faces he prides himself on shuttin em down. our pg’s n wings cant keep anybody in front of them. u want bargs to flash over and take a charge or get a block every fucking time?….its a turnstyle for the guy every possession. stfu tim.

          • Tim W.

            I’m intrigued how you know whether or not Bargnani “prides himself” on shutting down his defensive check? And, if this is the case, why does he not put out a good defensive effort on even a semi-consistent basis? Throughout the season, Bargani has consistently allowed his check to produce at a higher rate than normal. That doesn’t sound like someone who prides himself on shutting down his man.

            Do I want him to take a charge or get a black every time a man drives down the lane? No. I do want him to play solid team defense, though, and that means rotating properly, being in the right place and grabbing defensive boards. Having poor defensive teammates is not an excuse to play bad defensive yourself.

            The one thing I’ll never understand, is if it’s simply playing with poor perimeter defenders that make Bargnani look bad, why do Amir and Davis generally play above average team defense? How does that make sense?

            • Dookielove

              i glanced saw 3 paragraphs, saw your name and looked elsewhere.

              • Tim W.

                But still took the time to respond. Mmm.

                • Moe

                  As did you LOL.

                • Tim W.

                  Yes, but I didn’t claim that I looked elsewhere. I was pointing out the irony of the statement. What are you pointing out?

                • Moe

                  That you found his statement to be of substance LOL.

                • Tim W.

                  I didn’t. LOL

                • Moe

                  In the words of yourself:

                  “But still took the time to respond. Mmm.”


                • Tim W.

                  So did you. RLMAO

                  And I responded because I thought it was funny. I’m not quite sure you quite get it.

                • Moe

                  You lost your legitimacy now, just a loss for words and always looking to explain yourself, face it, you got owned. You’re old news, now vamoose ya bozo, not going to play toys with you.

                • Tim W.

                  You make absolutely no sense whatsoever. I honestly have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

        • Guest

          and if u havent noticed you old bastard, bargs has been steppin in and takin charges lately.

          • Tim W.

            Yes, he’s taken a few charges lately. Good for him. Unfortunately a few charges don’t make up for the 99% of the other times when he doesn’t rotate, or rotates too late, doesn’t show hard when a man drives down the lane, doesn’t disrupt a cutter and allows the other team to grab offensive boards in front of the him.

            And, again, I’m not the one who brought this up. I’m just continuing the conversation.

          • Dookielove

            shhhh, dont say anything good about bargs play. timmy and the haters get emotional.

          • Nilanka15

            Wow, he’s taken charges lately! What’s that, 3 in the past 10 games in a pressure-less, lost season? What an accomplishment!!! After 5 years, Bargnani has seemingly exchanged his personality for that of Dennis Rodman’s! Let sign him to another extension!

      • Nilanka15

        Ask Tom Thibideau about the 3 components of winning basketball. Defense, rebounding, and low turnovers, period.

        Scorers are a dime a dozen. What Bargnani brings to the Raptors can easily be replaced by a collection of players who aren’t pylons on the defensive end.

        • AnthonyF

          Sure they’re a dime a dozen….. What bull…. I am sure a team of 5 Joakim Noahs, with skill in each of those positions and great defenders who couldn’t hit a 11′ jumper would take the league by storm and win 70 games……

          Like Reggie Evans, who is great at rebounding (and stealing them from teammates), but is a disaster offensively and at the free throw line will never hear a boo from Toronto fans, because offense doesn’t matter for Raptor fans…..

          • Nilanka15

            Having a team full of Noah’s makes just as much sense is having a team with 1 Bargnani. They’re both unlikely to win more than 20 games.

  • Theswirsky

    To Khandor:

    Magic Johnson IS NOT Chris Bosh. Do you not think that might have some relevance regarding Chris Bosh? (I won’t even get into how you avoided the injury that happened to Kareem to keep him from playing C that game putting Magic in that position).

    Again, sample size, Khandor. Just because Chris Bosh HAS played C on occasion, and will play C on further occasions, does not mean that Pat Riley views Chris Bosh as a player that SHOULD or WILL play C regularily. The very FACT that Pat Riley has used him so little at that position, and that he has atleast 5 other guys (of relevance) to play that same position, goes to show how Pat Riley views Chris Bosh. And because Magic Johnson played C at numerous points of his career has 0 impact on how Pat Riley views Chris Bosh.

    While neither of us can read Pat Riley’s mind, there is no shortage of statistics to indicate how he does and plans on using Chris Bosh over the course of a season. When 5% of his total minutes this season have been dedicated to C, and 95% of his total minutes he has been used at pf, and (at the very least) 1/4 of that dressed roster is dedicated to that same position… I think that pretty much clears that question up. Whether he plays better or worse at C, PF (or PG for that matter) has no relevance to how he is ACTUALLY used or is expected to be used. Where Magic Johnson, Glenn Rice, or Sam Bowie played at any point in time is also not relevant.

    Those numbers are not percpetion… those are actual FACT.

    • khandor


      Part 1. I did not say that Chris Bosh is equivalent to Magic Johnson. What I said concerned the “relevance” of a little used 5-man unit, in regard to the success or failure of a specific NBA team and which actual line-up may be relevant in a given situation.

      Part 2. When the Heat use the following 5-man unit:

      Chalmers [or Bibby]
      Anthony, and

      Q1. At what position does have Chris listed?

      Q2. What position does Chris actually play, however?

      Part 3. re: How Pat Riley thinks basketball should be played at its best

      Q1. Are you aware that Pat has said in the past that he thinks the most effective 5-man unit would be comprised of five players who were each in the 6-6-to-6-10 range who are capable of working effectively at each of the five positions on the floor, on offense, defense and in terms of rebounding?

      Q2. In a 5-man unit that looks like that, according to Pat, which specific player do YOU think would be properly designated as the team’s Center?

      Q3. According to Pat, would THAT designation be dependant upon, “How many other Centers there are on that team’s roster?”

      Part 4. What you happen to think are facts … are not actually facts, at all.

      • Theswirsky

        1. Umm no, but you used Magic as an example for Chris Bosh. What Magic did or didn’t do has no relation to Chris Bosh and what Pat Riley thinks of him.

        2. They have Bosh at PF and Anthony at C.

        3. Chris actually plays PF. Suprise!

        I’m not exactly sure what you are trying to get at now? 82games is wrong? Fine. Then link what is “right”.

        q1. Great he said that. What exactly does that prove? He still signed Big Z and Dampier. Plays them both. He also starts 2 players smaller than 6’6″. What is “ideal” and what is “real” are to different things (hence the entire reality issue). Reality is he USES players that are outside that 6’6″ – 6″10″ scenario.

        q2 and q3. what I think Pat Riley should designated at what position is irrelevant. But its completely relevant that he does have Big Z and Dampier and Anthony and Magloire all to play C and cover Cs.

        Facts. So I prevent you the actual information. You tell me that information is wrong… yet provide nothing in support of that? The information you do provide doesn’t relate, at that information that does is of such a small sample its not even useable in statistical analysis. Nice work Khandor. Tell Pat to call me next time you talk to him.

        • khandor


          1. I did not “use Magic as an example for Chris Bosh.” I used the example of Magic Johnson playing center for the Lakers, in Game 6 of the 1979-80 NBA Finals, for the only time that entire season, to verify the wrongness of your perception that concludes, “… line-ups used for less than 19 minutes in a season are something less than relevant.” In reality, to the 1979-80 Philadelphia 76ers, that specific line-up was highly relevant, even though it was not used for any other game that season.

          [Btw … If what you meant to say was “statistically relevant”, then, that is what you should have said. Unfortunately, however, that is not what you wrote.]

          2. It’s a mistake in basketball judgment to list Chris Bosh as playing the Center position for Miami, when the Heat is using a 5-man unit comprised of Chalmers/Bibby [PG], Wade [OG], James [SF], Anthony [PF] and Bosh [C]. All kinds of web sites make this simple mistake.

          [e.g. Did you see how the Heat played last night’s game against Denver? … because Chris Bosh, who was listed at PF, actually spent the majority of his PT playing center, with Joel Anthony, who was listed at C, working as the PF. That is what reality looks like for the Heat right now.]

          3. This illustrates Pat Riley’s belief that players in the 6-6-to-6-10 range are capable of playing each of the 5 positions on a basketball court, depending on their individual attributes and how well they work together as teammates. The number of Centers on the Heat’s roster this season is not necessarily relevant to Pat Riley’s perception of Chris Bosh.

          [e.g. The relatively few number of guards and small forwards on Miami’s roster may be a result of the heavy minutes they expect to give to Wade and James this season, at these specific positions, considering their team’s financial situation, and their intent to give Bosh as much rest as possible, given: i. His history of knee/leg injuries; ii. The pre-season injuries suffered by Udonis Haslem and Dexter Pittman; iii. The brittle nature of the grey-beard bigs who were available for Miami to sign this off-season [e.g. Ilgauskas, Howard/J, Magloire; and, iv. The reality that Joel Anthony’s best position is PF – not Center – and that … with the injury to Haslem … Bosh is now their 2nd best option at this position, unless they are prepared to play James heavy minutes at this position in a small line-up.]

          4. It could simply be the case that your perception of how statistical analysis should be used in basketball is wrong. Not to worry, though, since there are many others who happen to share this same perception.

          5. I’m almost positive that the next time I speak with Pat Riley your name will not enter into the conversation.

          • Guest

            lol@u thinking your words hold weight.

          • Theswirsky

            2. Ofcourse…. silly me. That explains it. Everyone else is wrong. Makes sense.

            “Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to there level and beat you with experience”

            • Jae

              “Never argue with an idiot. They will bring you down to there level and beat you with experience”

              ROFL, then learn the difference between “their” and “there.”

              The one that looks like an idiot is you haahahah!!!

              • Theswirsky

                well played.