Full analysis of the Raptors getting screwed in the lottery is in the Rapcast below. Steve argues why the 5th pick is actually much better than picking 3rd, it’s a joy. But first, Colangelo.

This feels like George Bush getting re-elected. Three out of the five seasons have been failures, one has been a 22-win campaign and that around these parts merits a contract extension. I get it, you want to let the guy finish what he started, or should I say inadvertently started because at the beginning of last season, the goal was not to rebuild. The Raptors entered the 2010-11 campaign with legitimate playoff aspirations, even using the mid-level exception on Linas Kleiza hoping to tidy up a problematic position to make a run at the playoffs. When the suckage went to overdrive, the goal was re-aligned to that of rebuilding, which for Colangelo was a nice little excuse for his team to lose games. He’s been very open about the reconstruction of this franchise since the season ended, which rings very funny to me because there was no such talk in training camp or even at the end of Bosh’s final season.

Statistically, it’s incorrect to say that under Colangelo the team has regressed, he is the best GM the Raptors have ever had in terms of winning percentage. Not visible in that stat is that his middle three seasons have fallen far short of pre-season expectations. The only reason the previous one is stricken from that trend is because he changed course halfway through, it’s like a driver after being lost “deciding” that he does in fact want to take the longer route. Colangelo has been playing it by the ear all along, always improvising instead of planning. The spin room will call it being a dynamic GM who can adapt to change, the reality is that he hasn’t been able to assemble a respectable team for four years, and that’s with having full autonomy. The only silver-lining here is that the Raptors maintain continuity in their management, but if that implies continuity in the club’s policies towards defense and you-know-who, then even that doesn’t matter. This extension isn’t much different than many of the Raptors’ player-signings: just be glad someone wants to stay in Toronto and extend him without evaluating their worth accurately.

The length of the deal is a sign of just much the faith in Colangelo has shrunk, two years with a team-option for the third. That’s something that should be offered to Jarrett Jack, not the captain of your enterprise. Add to it that he had to present a plan before getting extended and the picture painted is that of a board that is far more skeptical of Colangelo than it once was. To me, the deal’s length is ideal, it’s just long to see what he can make of the present crew, but not so drawn out that he’ll be around if even this experiment fails. If you’re of the belief that the shorter length of the deal will coerce him into making rash decisions, I don’t see it. Counting the year gone by he’ll have three years for his latest project, more than enough time to judge whether he’ll have constructed something worthy of taking forward. The expectations won’t be of an Eastern conference finalist at the end of the 2013-14 season, they’ll be of a playoff team on a clear, undoubtable upward trajectory.

We have ahead of us a whole summer of discussion about Colangelo, that is if the league’s labor agreement allows him to function. Whenever he does get to work he already has a to-do list which can potentially have a telling effect on what the next two year’s will resemble:

Andrea Bargnani. The Bargnani experiment has failed, at least as a starting center. He’s been Colangelo’s main undoing and by now it should be clear that you can’t hide his defensive incapacity by overloading defense/rebounding at other positions (Reggie Evans, Jermaine O’Neal, Shawn Marion). Bargnani needs to head to the bench and aim for the Sixth Man of The Year award, the question is whether Colangelo has the cahones to do this. Publicly rebuking a guy is one thing, reprimanding him on the court is another.

The Point. Dealing with Jose Calderon, at $9M he’s been the butt of defensive jokes for years. At least we know Colangelo wants to get rid of him, whether he’ll be able to anymore without taking on other burgeoning contracts remains to be seen. Surely, having Calderon on the roster heading into next year goes pretty much against true rebuilding. A point-guard is a great starting point (pardon the pun) in the reconstruction of the team, Colangelo will have a chance to put this issue to bed once and for all over the next month, whether it be Rubio, Flynn or anybody else. Let’s see how he plays it.

Small Forward. A decision on Sonny Weems is pending, can he afford for his own sakes to extend Weems and risk bringing back a laggard at worst, and a good mid-range shooter at best. What will the impact of letting Weems walk have on YGZ® mates DeMar DeRozan and Amir Johnson? The small forward position is entirely up in the air, Kleiza is stuck between the three and four, and I have a hard time believing James Johnson is worthy of 35 minutes a night just yet.

Leadership. How will he import leadership and character if Reggie Evans – the mediocre but currently best example of these traits – departs, surely a great possibility given Ed Davis and Amir Johnson. The last time this team had a vocal, commanding voice in the locker-room was when Charles Oakley and Antonio Davis roamed these parts. Since then, nothing.

Coach/Defense. Bring Jay Triano and his back-to-back league-worst defense under the apriorism that his rapport with the players is more important to the team-spirit than anything else. Or do you go in the way of a coach that commands respect out-of-the-box. A league-worst defense does not go hand-in-hand with progression or development, and it trumps the generally decent effort the Raptors put forth last season. The question becomes, can you afford to bring back Jay Triano and risk replicating the defense? Or are the flaws so apparent and straightforward, and attributed directly to the personnel that Triano and Colangelo can fix them.

Three-point shooting/defense. The Raptors were dead last in three-point percentage (31.6%) and only ahead of Cleveland in allowing the worst three-point percentages (37.6%). Addressing one without negatively affecting the other is a tricky proposition, one which Colangelo last attempted to fix by signing the defensive matador that was Jason Kapono.

The assets he has to make these moves happen aren’t great, Bosh’s TPE, Leandro Barbosa, Jose Calderon and the sort. But isn’t that were a GM is supposed to shine, when the odds are against him. No, I’m not talking about Steve Fruitman engineering a trade that would overpay Hedo Turkoglu, I’m talking about making lemonade without lemons. Let’s see Colangelo pull a rabbit out of his hat for once so that non-believers like myself can sit back and admire his work. Trading away draft picks for lumbering has-beens, and having your milkshake drunk by Pat Riley is easy, finding a gem to boost your rebuild process is genius. I’m still waiting for Colangelo pull off his first act of magic so I too can jump in the Kool-Aid.

Colangelo’s two-year term also coincides with with DeMar DeRozan becoming a restricted free-agent, Colangelo’s ineptitude already lost the team Chris Bosh for nothing, if DeRozan turns into a proper player and maybe even an All-Star, history could be in line to repeat itself. He’s been given a second chance where others wouldn’t have been, and it has more to do with the economics off the court than the product on it. Condominiums, sports bars and office-buildings is where MLSE ply their trade and that’s where business is booming. Colangelo needs to be credited for his input to MLSE in that regard, however I don’t give a sh*t about that because the product on the court does not meet the quality that the die-hard fans of this franchise deserve.

Maybe I’m at the point where I was hoping for a change for the sake of a change, maybe I’m being impetuous and short-sighted in my thinking, all I know is that if more of the same is what Colangelo plans to bring, nobody is interested. This contract extension is a leap of faith by MLSE, fueled by things off the court being pretty sound, and the people in charge of the organization being too lazy to go through the GM-hiring process.

The Rapcast has phdsteve on it, we talk about the lottery, draft options, and the merits of Colangelo’s extension.

Grab the iTunes feed or the plain old feed. You can also download the file (18:42, 6.5MB). Or just listen below:

Here’s hoping Colangelo finds his way and starts valuing the things that matter. And more importantly, gets a little lucky. I’m going to leave you with this quote by slaw from the forums, a viewpoint I share entirely:

The best thing about this to me is that the Colangelo apologists have no excuses left. He has his extension. He has his management team. His scouting staff. His coach. His players. There is no Sam Mitchell to blame. There is no Chris Bosh. There is no TJ Ford. No Rob Babcock. You won’t even be able to blame ownership very much longer. Even Bargnani will be gone, so, you won’t be able to flay him.

Finally, no more excuses. No more mulligans. This will be his second chance to completely rebuild the team. His third or fourth re-tooling (depending on your mileage). He will have at least one and probably two high draft picks to work with. This time, trying really hard, wagging a silver tongue and wearing nice shirts isn’t going to be good enough.

I’m just so sick of discussing him, I am glad it’s over. Now, the team needs to rebuild properly and start to produce. No more ifs, ands or buts…

  • Loyal and Happy Raps Fan!!!

     I agree with some of your points – point gaurd, leadership, 3 point….. 

    However, It’s tiresome to hear the Andrea slamming.   After reading everything in this site, you would get the impression he’s the world’s worst player.  There is no chance for him to get better defensively or offensively in the proceeding years.  

    If you look at his stats throughout the years (as a whole), they have improved significantly.   Two more rebounds a game, and he would have similar stats to Aldridge.   I’m really wondering if I’m the only one chewing a crazy people about this since I’m in the small minority that speak on this sight and defend our 20+ player.  My biggest issue with last year, was we just didn’t have a team talented enough to win all the close games we were in.  But we for the most part did not get blown out last year and had some very impressive wins that were fun to watch.  It was actually, for the first year a pleasure to watch this team from the following perspective:   If Chris Bosh didn’t get hurt we didn’t tank and get blown out which was the problem in previous years.

    Regarding Colangelo – everybody speaks about the NBA as a science not an art.  It has to do with talent, and the opportunities you are presented and luck!  You can’t plan a Paul Gasol trade, or Lebron James Dwayne Wade and Chris Bosh collusion, a #1 draft pick … etc……  Hindsight is 20/20 and lots of experts show up after something doesn’t work out.  Very few positive comments around the GM who has been very loyal and feels to me like busting his ass to make things work in what we perceive as a less desirable market.  

    One more comment about Toronto Fans – we criticize too much….  We have unreal expectations – and as a result, ridiculous level of resentment.  Vince Carter is not this, Chris Bosh should be traded, trade Andrea for a juice box and future considerations…. Then when they leave to go to another market – inevitably you hear – how come they left????? We’ve been abandoned……. accompanied with this organization sucks, Americans don’t like Canada or Toronto.

    It must be the weather, but there lots of other teams losing and they are not ‘shitting on their teams’ players as much or as badly as we are……

    • 511

      Whatever brand of “coffee” you’re drinking … I really need some today. 

    • Theswirsky

       Issues with Bargnani:

      1. “There is no chance for him to get better defensively or offensively in the proceeding years.”  Yeah thats a serious problem2. “If you look at his stats throughout the years (as a whole), they have improved significantly”Yeah but if you look at them per minute you’ll realize they haven’t changed.  In fact this past year was the 2nd worst year of his career in many categories.  The only area he has actually improved in is raw points.3. “two more rebounds a game and he would have similar stats to Aldridge”Yeah if you ONLY look at points and add 2 rebounds.  If you look at everything a player does while on the floor, its not even close.4.”we criticize too much… We have unreal expectations – and as a result, ridiculous level of resentment”If not wanting someone to be able to do the things even the most average player can/would/should do is unreal expectations… what should we expect?  I’m honestly starting to be convinced that Bargnani Boys are completely happy with losing.  With having the worst defense in the league.  With this team looking soft.  And can’t seem to comprehend others NOT wanting to a good team.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_B32FGJ2BOTMWNQTMO2XEDRGBCA JW

      I don’t want him to have simmilar STATS to Aldridge.  I want him to have a simmilar HEART.

      When will the euro’s learn that it is not about stats.  I don’t care about stats, its about soul.  There has never been a Raptor that has floated as much as Andrea, and he is the biggest player we have.

      Get him off the team.  I would love to pay 10 million OUT just to do that.

      • DanD

        I agree with you to be honest imho Barg still could be better than Aldridge the difference between them though is their determination to be better or best player they can be.

        Aldridge is working hard to become that player while Barg is such a slacker and no heart. Barg has the mindset of “Go-with-the-flow-I-already-got-my-money” type player.

        • John

          Well, look at the players Aldridge has, a leader in Miller, a slasher in Batum and Wallace, a stud and scorer in Matthews, a defensive center in Camby and off the bench Brandon Roy. Bargs has nobody to really back him up. Its kind of like Vince needed Oak and those vets to reach that potential to be the best he could be.  

          • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

            Excuse #7342.

      • Jonathan

        I like your contradictions.  Really.

        First you say it’s not about stats, it’s about heart/soul.

        Then you imply it’s not about heart/soul, it’s about being a “euro”.

        Finally, in your second post, you say Bargnani is “a joke of a pro player, both for his national team and for the Raptors.”  Considering his national team is probably full of “euros”, am I correct in understanding that it has nothing to do with being a “euro”, and everything to do with not having much heart/soul?

        Probably could have just said that from the start, but when will fans learn not to make sweeping generalizations, and by fans, I mean specifically you at the moment.

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_B32FGJ2BOTMWNQTMO2XEDRGBCA JW

      I remember the smirk in the  shoot around as Jack was reporting that Sam was fired from the Raptor practice facility, Andrea was doing his best to take shots where the camera could see him in the background.  Still remember his smile and constant look backs at the lens as Jack was breaking the news. 

      Get this guy out of here he is cancer to the team, not because of some off court stuff, but by his ON COURT effort. He is a joke of a pro player, both for his national team and for the Raptors. A perenial loser.

      • cesco

        You and your cronies will eventually die of a heart attack caused by your hate for Andrea , who will be here for another 4-6 years and retire happily in Rome afterward .

        • Nilanka15

          [rolling eyes] 

        • Statement

           “who will be here for another 4-6 years”

          Yeesh, don’t scare me like that..it’s too early in the morning.

        • meductic


        • pran

          Bargnani for Felton, BC make it happen, that’s the last will ever here of pasta boy and his barber (you)

          • Pranthepaki

             a paki dream.

        • cb

          cesco, your sub-literate commentary is tiresome and misguided.

          please, please, please, refrain from making any more posts related to basketball. you quite obviously are a AB fanboy and simply don’t have the critical acumen or even the basic powers of simply observation to meaningfully contribute to a clear-headed discussion of the raptors.

          go away.

          • c_bcm

            AB fan boys have as much right to contribute to the discourse on this site as you do. If you can’t handle debates and discussions in the absence of malicious comments maybe you should be the one to move on. Hey I know. Go start your own blog site for a different team. You seem to have alost all passion for the Raptors. 

            • yertu damkule

              the irony in your post is that it’s *generally* the AB ‘fanboys’ who are incapable of having cogent, thoughtful discussions about him, his strengths/weaknesses, etc, and – as cesco illustrates above – who resort to ‘malicious’ comments. 

              further…it seems quite clear that a great number of andrea’s fans are fans of him, and not necessarily the raptors.  so, your suggestion that anyone who is a bargnani ‘hater’ go start their own blog site for a DIFFERENT TEAM is a bit misplaced.  this is a RAPTOR site (hence the name), not a BARGNANI site.  i’d suggest that those who cannot handle criticism leveled at him should take your advice, and start a bargnani fan(boy) page.  at least that way, when he’s traded away, you won’t have to go find the fan site of his new team.

              • Nilanka15

                [Ali G voice]: BOOYAKASHA! 

              • c_bcm

                Not anyone who is a Bargs hater. Just those who personally attack Bargs fans. We should be able to debate the players without resorting to personal attacks on our intellience or commitment to the franchise. 

                • yertu damkule

                  that’s absolutely true.  and it’s a two-way street… 

              • RapthoseLeafs

                First up … yertu … fanboys is for iphone folks who like shiny things – lol. (I’m a webOS fan – best OS on the market).

                As for Toronto, I’m a Raptor fan. And a Bargnani, Davis, JJ etc. fan. Was once a Bosh fan. And a Vinny fan (more so than CB).

                Why I defend Bargnani – besides believing he has more to give – relates to the whole Bully scenario. Which your statement [“are incapable of having cogent (relevant) thoughtful discussions”], is more or less no different.

                My thoughts on Andrea, are that some fans have let the hate override a reasonable capability for a forward analysis (other than trade him for whatever we can get).

                I know his weaknesses, and I’ve had no problem defining them. I consider him Dirk-lite – who with more maturity – still has an upside. Certain games showed that for me, when his “manhood” was in question. Before this season, most fans thought he was a quality Scorer & poor help-defender. Now he’s poor at everything. Can we say bi-polar.

                As for his drive & “enthusiasm”, I’ve never said he doesn’t need a good kick in the ass. Jay either coddled him, or was desperate for someone to handle the Centre position. Amir is a quality player, but can’t handle real Bigs. Davis needs weight & strength, and personally, I think he could fill in at the Centre. I’d rather he not, but getting a defensive Centre (via trade or free agency), just seems like we’re dreaming too much. Some fans can’t accept the Canadian reality (as being part of the reason).

                When you look at the Dallas situation, one can see where Raptors lack specific needs – Defensive Centre, a true MVP player (unlike what Bosh thought he was), 3 point shooting (a huge plus for the Mavs), and a helluva Bench. The latter 2 strengths we’ve had in the past. Dirk may be the man for that team, and while Bargnani cannot begin to be compared, there are similarities for which Raptors can offer a modified version.
                [” .. further…it seems quite clear that a great number of andrea’s fans are fans of him, and not necessarily the raptors.”]

                As for this defining thought, I’d prefer to think of it as an arrogant & condescending statement. But hey … whatta I know. I’m not a fan.

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        Barg’s aka The Sneaky Roman.

        Sam was fired in most part for the way he handled Bargnani, BC’s Golden Child, he didn’t lost the team as both JO & CB were miffed when he was prematurely fired but now Jay gets more leeway for being a yes man to BC than Sam ever did for trying to really coach the team to win. 

        Sam =’s playoffs. Jay =’s Lottery.

        Bargnani, who has his own personal GM in Gheradini & Trainer in Cuzzlino, is a str8 up cancer as the Rap’s locker room stays split (JJ spoke on that when he came over from Chi Town) with him on the roster getting preferential treatment and still playing half ass.

        A spoiled brat is what Barg’s is and BC, Gheradini & Jay coddled him into being such a lethargic player then rewarded him with a 5 year contract extension.

    • R.U. Serious

      I co-sign this. ALOT Of Raps “fans” are PATHETIC. Real talk. Alot of us talk so much crap of who the Raps should trade, trade for or the constant re-runs of fire Triano, BC, etc. All stupid comments by some of these delusional fans on Trade/Fire crack. Then, those same birds will be complaining about how inconsistent we are and unstable. Some of you “fans” need to quit watching basketball and take up hockey and leave true fan duties to true fans. A true fan is supportive thru good AND bad times. Suckers.

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        No, The Rap’s Front Office & coaching staff is pathetic- real talk.

        The fans deserve some sort of solace for putting up this this current BC & Jay fiasco that fronts as Raptors basketball especially with at least 2 more years of the same BullChit coming our way as BC will spin his new winning plan just like the old rebuild plan.

        A true fans is a critical thinking fan not a kool aid drinking fan in good & bad times.

        • Themacguy

          Holy fuck enough with the kool aid comparisons. 900 people died in that tragedy and you people still use it as an analogy in sports. Really. Lets still use the word retard while we are at it.

          • BCGheradiniJayGots2 Go!!!


    • Zuluman

      When i pay $130 to watch a game. that gives me the right to complain as much as i want. And when i give my hard earned money to a guy that makes over 10mil a year and acts like its a free lunch.  that pisses me off. I pay good money I expect a good product. If MLSE is more concerned with selling jerseys in Spain and Italy and making above average profits and providing a below agerage product as consumers we need to let them know this is not acceptable

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Velalakan-Mano/100000962312689 Velalakan Mano

      Bargnani doesn’t play defense, even BC admitted it.  Aldridge does, he may not be a lock-down defender but Aldridge plays solid defense.  What’s the point if you score 20 points but you allow your opponent to score 20 points also every time.  Bargnani is a good option off the bench, but not a starter.  He becomes a liability in close games or competitive games.  He’s that guy that provides a scoring punch off the bench.  Whether BC goes through with this and sends Bargnani to the bench is a different story.  You’re basically asking BC to admit that Bargnani is not that great of a player.  Trade Bargnani or make him come of the bench. At least if you do that, then you’re going in the right direction.  Then next year (this team will still suck this coming season even if BC makes many changes) enter the lottery draft and hope to God that you get a top 3 pick and draft a PF or SF because that’s what’s loaded for next years draft.  Oh and fire Triano, having the worst defense and worst 3-point shooting in the league means you didn’t do your job for the last 2 years. Just because he’s Canadian doesn’t make it right for him to coach a NBA team.  If this holds true, the Raps might draft every Canadian player that enters the draft (which is pretty sad and a new low level).

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2 Go!!!

      Here are the official player pre NBA draft measurements for all those interested: 


  • KJ-B

     Not sure why ‘No Money Down’ Weems’ name is even mentioned, yet again as a viable option for the NBA, on this site… Soooooooooo glad we didn’t get Kyrie–love his talent but he’s kinda unfortunate over the last year or so: 1st the bum foot now CLEVELAND…yikeS Kyrie..!

    Moving right along, this gives the Raps the perfect reason to take a flyer on one of the best athletes on the planet: Jan Vesely–been biggin’ him up for months now…

    On a separate note, what on earth is Cory Joseph doing in the draft???? Hopefully, Colangelo is bright enuff to not pick him as the 1st Cdn in franchise history……..

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_B32FGJ2BOTMWNQTMO2XEDRGBCA JW

      I don’t know man, wait till TSN does a story that Corey Joseph has Terry Fox poster in his room and a collection of hockey cards.    Once that gets out we will have the usual crew, trying to spoil our team with attributes that only non baskatball fans like, like being Canadian.

    • Nilanka15

      Joseph’s a 2nd round pick at best.  He’ll be playing in Europe or the D-League next year. 

      • Ghotte

        If that. Don’t know who is mentoring he and Tristan Thompson but there’s no way either should have come out of college at this stage. Numbskulls 

        • Nilanka15

          Thompson will most likely be a late 1st round pick

          • slaw

            I thought most people were looking at Tristan as a potential lottery guy at this point. He’s at #9 on draft.net; #16 on express; Ford at #8.

            I think Thompson made a great decision to come out. He will make more guaranteed money on his rookie deal than he would likely make in his entire life doing anything else. 

            • yertu damkule

              yeah, i second that.  the ‘decision’ for TT to come out is actually a bit of a no-brainer, given the consensus of where he’ll likely be picked.   

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

              TT should go around mid Lottery depending on individual workouts or at worst right outside of the Lottery. 

              I see him going around 10-12.

              I really think that the Rap’s should have a Canadian NBA player somewhere on their roster by now that’s where the Griz messed up as there was talk of the Griz trading for Nash in his early years but nothing ever happened on that front.

              I mean if the Rap’s will carry & pay Alabi- come on now lets get some Canadian brethren on the team especially someone from the greater TDot area.

          • hound

            Doug Gottlieb has the Raps picking him at 5!. If this happens, I can’t watch anymore!! I would like to see the Raptors trade Bargs, and the 5 pick for Charlotte’s 9, 16 this year and next year’s 1st round pick. 

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        Too bad the Rap’s don’t have a 2nd round draft pick.

         At least, where ever he ends up, he will be getting paid to ball instead of exploited by the NCAA with a yearly renewable tax write off scholarship under the guise of being a student athlete. 

  • footarez

    download link doesn’t work !!!

    • Arsenalist
      • footarez

         Thank you..as for the draft…it could have been worse(6th ? ) and we still don’t know what trades might Colangelo make with our pick or for another pick.

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          It could have been worse is the best you have?lol

          It was bad enough as the Rap’s dropped 2 spots- so much for all you sucka duck tank supporters- you play the game to win then let the Lottery balls or playoff spots fall where they may.

          As well, it’s more attractive, valuable to make a trade with the 3rd overall pick rather than the 5th overall pick- common sense. 

  • Nilanka15

    I’d just like to point out that it’s entirely possible to be in favour of Colangelo’s extension, and still holeheartedly agree with slaw’s quote above.  This discussion doesn’t have to be as polarizing as some would like.

    I think retaining Colangelo was the smart choice given the circumstances surround this team, but it’s now time to put up or shut up.  I’m not expecting a playoff team next year, but if the Raps falter out of the gate (e.g. losing 22 of their first 30 games), and are again THE worst team defensively, then I’ll be calling for Colangelo and Triano’s heads just as loud as the rest.

    There MUST be definite signs of improvement next season.

    • cesco

      On points allowed per game there were FOUR teams worse than the Raps this year : Minny 107.71 points allowed , followed by Phoenix , NY ,GS and then the Raps with 105.35 points allowed . We even improved defensively over the previous year (when there was only two teams worse than us (Minny and GS and we allowed 105.9 pts/game) . Offensively of course , we did not fare as well as the previous year .

      • Nilanka15

        Points allowed doesn’t adjust for pace.  Phoenix, New York and Golden State all played with an uptempo pace, so their opponents attempted more shots, which contributed to high points allowed.  We can’t say the same about the Raptors.

        • RapthoseLeafs

          ummm …. Raptors were 2nd in fast break points – just behind Golden State. And if I recall right (and I checked that), Toronto led for most of the season (until mid-March).
          Raptor problem (part of it), was our scoring didn’t match our fast break point (standing( – a function of MANY issues that include being a horrible 3 point shooting team.

          • yertu damkule

            ppg allowed/scored and even pace don’t really do justice in determining a team’s defensive or offensive efficacy.  IMO, looking at shooting %’s (E, TS, FG, 3pt, etc) provides a much better measure. 

    • sleepz

       How though?
      They don’t have many assets to trade. They have a bit of money to spend but are you going to start spending on a 22 win team? The draft pick will most likely yield a rotation player but not necessarily a starter.
      Will the improvements of the young players on the team translate to more wins? Triano has coached these guys up for the past few years. Why should I now expect to see defensive improvements? They’ve been talking that game in training camp for the past 3 years and no results.
      I don’t see much opporuntiy for considerable improvement here. That comes with talent and solid coaching and the Raps have a shortage of both.

      • Nilanka15

        Calderon, Barbosa and Bargnani are technically “assets”.  They may not be the type of assets that keeps Colangelo’s phone ringing off the hook, but they are tradeable assets nonetheless.  Players with the skill-level of Boris Diaw and Tyson Chandler (for example) is what we can expect to receive in trades.  We’re not talking about all-stars, but servicable players who would go a long way in adding talent, and improving our win total.

        Also, I’m banking on the internal development of DeRozan, Amir, Davis, Bayless and J.Johnson.  Reality tells me that some will improve, some will stagnate, and some will regress.  But this early into the offseason, I’m encouraged by what I saw from each of them last year. 

        And although Kleiza was a wash, he was playing through an injury all year.  He did look impressive playing for Lithuania in the World Championships.  He could be a solid contibutor when 100% healthy. 

        Plus we do have a little cap space, a high pick in the draft, and whatever’s left of the Bosh TPE.  Considering all of this (whether Triano is retained or not), Colangelo does have a very creative mind when it comes to “wheeling and dealing”.  A lot can happen between now and training camp. 

        • sleepz

           Fair enough. The debate will eventually become  what will Colangelo do to improve the roster and the team now with what he has and how does that affect their lottery pick positioning (yes i”m assuming lottery again) next year?
          I’m also reading that Triano is going to get another year on his deal so he’s not a ‘lame duck ‘coach next year. Amazing! Contract extensions for the GM and coach of a 60 loss team! Raps are a ‘lame duck’ franchise right now in my eyes. 60 losess? No worries, no one’s to blame (other than Bargnani who will become the convenient scapegoat whether right or wrong). No changes to be made round here, lets just keep the status quo. lol

          • c_bcm

            The Raps have always been a franchise quick to pull the trigger following a failed season. Look where that got us. Nowhere, mostly due to quick fixes with over-paid vets on the down-swing of their career.

            Maybe this will work better, maybe it won’t. But i’m willing to give it a shot. DO the re-build properly. Do not rush it.  Yes it will be painful, but we, as fans, will continue to believe that it MUST get better.

        • RapthoseLeafs

          [ “Players with the skill-level of Boris Diaw and TYSON CHANDLER (for example) is what we can expect to receive in trades.”]

          I have to assume you’ve been watching (and listening to) any of the Dallas play-off series games. The hope of us landing a player of the calibre of Chandler is about as realistic as taking back Bosh.

          Mavs got lucky (something we have very little of), as they were basically given Tyson for chump change.

          • Nilanka15

            Did you already forget that Charlotte agreed in principal to that trade for Calderon earlier last year, before ultimately changing their mind?? 

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        The draft will most likely yeild a rotation player?

        I don’t think so with the Rap’s roster as is I don’t see anyone in the rotation at 5- maybe Leonard if he’s available at 5.

        Currently Rap’s 9 man rotation would look something like this when everyone is healthy:

        C: Bargnani/ 
        PF: Davis/ Johnson
        SF: JJ/ Kleiza
        SG: DD/ Barbosa
        PG: Jose/ Bayless

        If the Rap’s make some player moves then it might open up a rotation spot for the potential 2011 Rap’s draftee.

        Jay and his BullChit preaching of defense the past 2 training camps- fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me, I’m done with anything coming out of Jay’s lying mouth.

        A better coach- one that instilled accountability leadership towards every player with no exceptions, would get more out of the Rap’s talent base in my mind.

        Plus a coach that was allowed to actually coach to the feel of the game and not having to follow BC’s predetermined dictations on playing time and rotations.

        But if Jay comes back as the Rap’s head coach- I want Alex English!!, then anything can & most likely will happen in the negative- blame the youth, lack of girth & injuries.

      • quick point

        the #5 pick will get us a starter.   

    • Ghotte

      “If” they start 22 of 30, will anyone really be surprised? They have serious lack of talent now – no SuperGM or coach will make one bit of difference because, as they say, you can’t polish a turd. This draft pick will not change the make-up of the team in all likelihood. They are lottery-bound again next year at best.  

      • c_bcm

        Yup. The true test of the rebuild will be to see a gradual improvement. This season should be the low point. Next year I expect an improved record. But I want this improvement to be because our core of young talent have caused it. Not because we brought in vets as a quick fix to appease the masses. 

    • cb

      what i don’t understand is why it would take you yet another season to finally see what’s been patently obvious to many… this team doesn’t work. i just dont get why so many commenters are so invested in defending a losing franchise… it makes no sense.

      • Nilanka15

        I’m working under the assumption that next year’s roster will look quite different from this year’s. 

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      With such low expectations how can BC/Jay fail in your eyes?lol

      Smart as is dumb like good meaning bad.

      It was time to put up or shut up the past 3 seasons for BC & his Consensus Crew.

      You mean the past 2 years of being the worst defensive team in the NBA under BC & Jay didn’t make your mind open up to the fact that defense is not a priority?

      So what if you call for their heads if Rap’s come out of the gate slow- if there is even a full NBA schedule next season, BC has 2 guaranteed years he’s not going anywhere for at least 2 more years no matter what you would do you said circumstance.

      • Nilanka15

        You’re right, nobody’s EVER been fired mid-contract before.

        Dude, stop rambling….it’s mind-numbing. 

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          Nope, your mind is just numb, buddy. lol

          BC will not be fired mid contract he will be here for at least 2 more years for better or for worse plus there are rumore that Jay will get another year added to his current deal as so he’s not a lame duck coach- time will tell.

      • Nilanka15

        The past 2 seasons of defensive ineptitude has just as much to do with Calderon and Bargnani playing heavy minutes, as it does Colangelo and Triano.  But this year, there’s a good chance that one (or both) of them will be traded.

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          Time will tell.

          I don’t see Bargnani going anywhere next season I see BC trying to get a center to play next to him- Ivy League arrogance.

          • points

            bargs a lifer here while BC in charge .

          • quick point

            bc trades bargs.  does your head explode with awesomeness? 

  • knickz

    anybody who doesn’t think this draft was rigged is insane! 

    • yertu damkule

      uh, why would anyone think that?  because stern wants it’s star players in…cleveland?  minny?  utah?  what was rigged about either the process or the outcome? 

    • Nilanka15

      If you read Doug Smith’s blog today, you’d realize there’s absolutely nothing controversial about what went down last night. 

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

       I feel you.

      Ever since the alleged NYK (Ewing) cold card situation I felt that some funny business was going on.

      Nowadays the NBA conducts the Lottery behind closed doors instead of making the process transparent to the fans- I don’t trust them folks at all.

      Even Kahn, the Minnesota GM whom I rarely agree with, thought something fishy was happening just like last season with the Washington Wizard’s former owner’s widow winning the top pick.

       Dan’s son is 14 Cavs got 1 & 4 pick.

      Great story line with LBJ leaving Cleveland the kid’s disease and everything- the NBA is all about story lines like a soap opera and Stern is the Executive Svengali Producer.

      Utah also lost DWill and they jump up to #3.

      Coincidence or conspiracy?lol

      • Nilanka15

        Read Smitty’s blog.  There were a bunch of witnesses to the lottery includding Smitty himself.  The only reason it was behind closed doors was for ratings purposes as they choose the 1st team, then the 2nd, then the 3rd, etc.  There would be no suspenseful anticipation…and thus, no TV ratings after the 1st team is revealed.  Recognize!

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          Smitty works for the NBA.lol

          I don’t believe you, you need more people!!

          Do it out in the open- point blank!!

        • Theswirsky

          while I don’t think there is a conspiracy… a bunch of “witnesses” in a room behind closed doors doesn’t = transparency.

          If they don’t want people to think this is a set up (including the leagues own GMs), they need to make open for everyone to view. 

  • Daniel

    Don’t worry Arse, we’ll buy Jose’s contract with the coming amnesty and then you’ll enjoy the defensive prowess of all these new age PG’s we’ll trade or draft. Jose more than held his own against Rose, Westbrook, Wall, CP3 last season. He actually makes people better instead of having 20 shots a game trying to be “the man”. I guess it’s easier to sell hope for stalwarts like Bayless, DeRozan and JJ than to respect solid veterans like Jose, Barbosa or Evans.
    I’m disgusted of the extension to Colangelo. I don’t really care about the process, I care only about the results. He failed every year after the first season compared with the expectations. He may be saved by the new CBA as well as the ignorance of Toronto fans.

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      Jose is due 20 million over the next two years lost his jumper in Spain plus he gets injured on the regular.

      As well Jose is a back up paid like a starter he’s not a starter.
      People, teams played down to the Rap’s all season long put Jose on DRose, Westbrook or CP3 during the playoffs and they would abuse him like Charlie Sheen and a crack smoking prostitute- Jose would be the prostitute.

  • Statement

    Few things,

    I’m fine with Calderon and Bayless as starters next year.  Jose makes too much, but oh well, he is still good.

    Demar has to want to mix it up in terms of rebounding and raise his defensive IQ if he wants to be a good player.  This can be partly accomplished by getting stronger (better ability to fight through screens and rebound)

    We need a SF, I was hoping that we could get one in the draft but I’m not so sure.  Kenneth Faried scores out well in terms of numbers and similiarity scores but he is a PF, could he shift to SF?

    PF is solid here, Ed Davis needs to bulk up and up his Defensive IQ – IMHO (I know he has the reputation of a solid defender but to me, this was overrated and Amir is leaps and bounds better than him defensively).

    Centre is an albatross, but we’ll see what can be done.

    The coaches are not going to be changed, Triano still has a deal and no way is management gonna shell out for another coach while still having to pay Colangelo.

    Next year I would figure maybe 30 wins or so and then another high draft pick.  Next year is supposedly a PG heavy draft so centre is the upgrade goal this year.

    Finally, I think that Colangelo is not going to play out the whole year with the youngsters.  If it did, it would only leave 1 more year to improve the team enough to see the team option excersized.  He is gonna try to add some veterans, which isn’t such a bad thing.

    Lets face it, the next 4-5 years belong to Miami, Chicago, OKC, the Raps aren’t going to win anything, might as well shoot for the playoffs to  get that experience and return the team to a culture of winning.  If that means bringing on veterans, so be it.

    • Statement

      while still having to pay Colangelo = still having to play Triano. 

    • Theswirsky

      For the most part I agree with you.  Although 30 wins may be a bit of a stretch for next year… I guess that depends on what BC is able (or unable) to turn Bargnani into.

  • Statement

    One more thing,

    Just say no to Johnny Flynn. 

    • knickz

      i don’t even understand how some of u guys even want flynn…what has thius guy done? 

      • Bendit

        The pro theory is that he was hamstrung by the triangle offense instituted by Rambis ex of the Lakers & Phil Jackson. 

        • Ghotte

          The reality is he just isn’t that good. 

          • yertu damkule

            you know this for sure?  i’d wager that the ‘reality’ is that he’s not as good as many thought he COULD be coming out of ‘cuse, but that he’s not nearly as bad as he’s been the last couple seasons.  so hard to gauge a player on a dysfunctional team.  

            • Boomer

              Simmons and Chad Ford were discussing him yesterday on his podcast, because they can’t figure out if he is good or terrible, because of that triangle offense.  Would I want him here? I don’t know, maybe. If we get rid of one of the Jose/Linas contracts, probably worth a shot.  But I never though he was that good, anyway.

              • Theswirsky

                a tirangle offense doesn’t make a good pg bad or a bad pg good.

                Luke Ridnour took his job and was a perfectly average PG.  Flynn couldn’t even achieve that. 

                • yertu damkule

                  that’s true…but the triangle is a complicated offense, and one that isn’t designed with using the PG in a traditional sense.  it takes time for any rookie to learn the nuances of the nba game, and to also have to familiarize yourself with the triangle – in which you aren’t a significant part of the offense, something that is in stark contrast to his playing days at syracuse – seems like a lot to handle.  not saying it’s a reason, just a possibility.

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        Flynn has been injured alot, maybe a change of scenery does him some good it’s not a big gamble as he is still on his rookie contract. 

        If he’s healthy why not at least look at him?

  • sleepz

    “He’s been very open about the reconstruction of this franchise since the season ended, which rings very funny to me because there was no such talk in training camp or even at the end of Bosh’s final season.”
    I thought this write-up was bang on. Much of the last 3 years has been talk and little action. Some fans complain about the ‘negativity’ exhibtied by the fans but the job of the GM, coahes and team is to give us something to be excited about which they haven’t done.
    No more excuses or cop outs. BC will be judged solely by his results and the “rebuilding” of this team that he already constructed entirely by himself.lol
    No quick fixes either on the horizon. he will indeed have to pull out a gem from somewhere to start the team ascension again.
    Seeing his reaction to receving the 5th pick in the draft last night was well worth the price of admission for me. Good luck Mr. Colangelo. There’s nothing else to fall back on (I’m positive Triano will be retained, although he shouldn’t be, and fired at some point next year)  now.
    Hopefully you will illustrate why you are the man for the job based on team results from here on in.  

  • Tinman

    Cannot understand your logic Steve.
    Picking third would be better than picking fifth. While I heard your explanation am starting to feel you go out of your way to be different, no matter what nonsense you speak.
    Having two players off the board when our pick comes is a better situation than having four off the board. There is no logic to your opinion.

    Better to be accurate, than different.

    • Bendit

      I believe Steve’s take is that picking third would have constrained the Raps into possibly taking a consensus pick rather than one of a better fit. He mentions that Kanter (a possible 3rd) is not a good fit while at 5th there is a bit more freedom…like a Knight. I see his point but not about Kanter.   

    • tonious35

       The lower the pick, the less the moral amount of disaster it will be if the pick is a failure.

      • Ghotte

        I get that, but it’s a short-sighted way of thinking about picks. Do you aim for “upside” all the time it will take to develop that prospect (See: Kobe, Amare, etc.) or do you take a person who appears NBA-ready and is slated to contribute right away.

        • yertu damkule

          i actually took steve’s point to be that the difference between the 3rd pick and the 5th (and the 8th, and the 11th, etc.) really isn’t THAT great.  it’s not as though there are any can’t miss guys, or sure-fire allstars.  hell, the consensus BEST guy in the draft (irving) is projected to peak as the 5th-10th best PG in the L at his best.  for each talking head who thinks kanter is a rock-solid prospect, there’s someone else who thinks he’ll be a bust.  point is, the likelihood that the raps will be picking a rotation player at the 5 spot is pretty much the same as if they were picking 3rd.

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        The higher the draft pick the more trade value it has if BC was to go that direction with the pick and trade it.

        The 3rd pick has more value in trades than the 5th pick. 

        • yertu damkule

          not in this draft, IMO. 

          • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

             In every draft as 3 is higher than 5 every day all day no matter how you try to spin it.

            • yertu damkule

              unless no team feels that the 3rd pick is sufficiently ‘better’ than the 5th, to the degree that they don’t feel the need to give anything up to move up, since there’ll be a guy of what they deem to be ‘equivalent’ value at a later spot.  that’s all.  it’s easy to say, ‘move up,’ ‘move down,’ ‘trade the pick,’ etc…but you have to have a willing trading partner, and what is being offered has to be enticing enough to want to move. 

  • Ghotte

    Slot #5 couldn’t really be worse for the Raptors. Picking 1 thru 4 would have netted us talent (or potential talent) at the PG, C or SF spot. Now it literally is a crapshoot – and someone who will likely not be able to help us in the short-term. 

    • yertu damkule

      meh…after irving, the whole thing’s a crapshoot (and even he likely falls short of all-star calibre).  the difference between 4 & 5 is negligible.  hell, the difference between 2 & 10 may be negligible.

    • Nilanka15

      The Blazers obtained their current core from the weakest draft to date using the 2nd and 6th picks (Aldridge and Roy respectively).  Anything’s possible man. 

      • Raptor4Ever

        Anything is possible when you have a great GM !!! From the same draft and with a better pick, we came out with AB.  

        Our Internation players are Calderon and Kleiza while they have Fernandez and Batum !!

        We gave a contract to Hedo and they got Miller who has been great for them.

        We got Evans while they got Camby !!!

        List goes on and on ….

        • Nilanka15

          That same GM was also willing to offer Turkoglu a 5-year deal.  Just saying… 

  • Statement

    Regarding Colangelo,

    My opinion of him is that he is a mediocre GM. 

    Grabbing JO and Hedo were both mistakes, period.  JO was more palatable, but still, expecting a guy to regain all-star form after years of injuries was just dumb.

    Hedo was dumb from day one.

    These moves reeked, but Colangelo was trying to build around Bosh.  I believe he pretty much had to because Bosh was the franchise player, best player and ticket seller.  it would have been impossible to go to management and say “we have to move this guy, he isn’t a true franchise player”.  

    His three biggest mistakes, in order, were 1) trading for JO (which robbed the team of Rasho, Ford and Roy Hibbert) and then not holding on to JO to allow his contract to expire instead trading for Shawn Marion as a short-term fix.  This gave Miami the cap space they needed to sign Bosh.  Talk about a royal assfucking.

    2) Extending Bargnani – Bargs wasn’t a consensus number one pick and in the first couple of years showed that he wasn’t an awful two-way player, he should not have been prematurely extended.

    3) Signing Hedo – awful defense the year before, what do you do, get another awful defensive player whose one skill is replicated by more than one player on your team, straight up stupid.

    On the plus side

    4) He drafted Ed Davis

    5) He signed Amir Johnson to a below-market for value contract

    6) He still has the ability to make trades and has the ear of GMs around the league, thanks to years of relationship development.

    7) Has found some diamonds in the rough (Kris Humphries, Parker, Garbajosa, Jamario Moon)


    • Statement

      wasn’t an awful two-way player = WAS an awful two-way player. 

    • Tinman

      I think resigning BC was the way to go. That being said you don’t include allowing Bosh to walk for what in all likelyhood will turn out to be James Johnson as his biggest mistake? A big oversight. Realizing that he wasn’t a true franchise player, or not realizing it, was a mistake as well. 

      • Statement

        That is a big oversight on my part.

        I will just say that I don’t think Colangelo had any other option other than to try to appease Bosh and hope that he stays.  

        From what I’ve seen from Colangelo in interviews, he knew Bosh wasn’t a “franchise” guy.  This leads me to believe his hands were tied by management regarding Bosh.

        Think J.P. Ricccardi and the Vernon Wells debacle. 

        • Ghotte

          Bosh was the franchise, just as Zach Randolph, Joe Johnson or other similar tier 2 or 3 franchise players on other teams. You try to bring talent in to complement those players. 

          While Colangelo was dealing from strength, clearly things didn’t pan out. To do anything other than what Colangelo did would have led the Raptors in inquiring lower value and keep us mired in mediocrity. At least with the cap space savings there’s some wiggle room. 

          • Boomer

            You’re both right, but Bosh being our “franchise” guy does not mean he is a Capital F “Franchise guy”.  Being the best (at the time) building block on a bad team does not equal being the best player on a good team, which means that while Bosh was the Raps “franchise” player, he will never be a “Franchise” player,.. a Garnett, a Wade,.. guys along those lines. I see him as similar to Gasol on the Grizzlies before he was traded to the Lakers.  A guy close to being a star, but who would in all likelihood never be able to be THE guy.

            • Nilanka15

              Garnett wasn’t really a “franchise player” either.  Individual accomplishments aside, what did the T-Wolves ever do?

              • yertu damkule

                WCF with a ‘garnett-&-the-pu-pu-platter’ team.  perennially in the mix in a tough conference, on a team with an even less desirable location than TO.

              • Boomer

                You know what, you’re right. I think I was thinking of the top teams off the top of my head as I typed that.  It took Cassell and Spreewell in Minny, and Pierce and Allen in Boston, to take him anywhere.  Maybe, in his case, I confused “Franchise guy” with “Leader/Tough guy/Asshole”

                • yertu damkule

                  i’m sorry, but you can play that game with any ‘franchise’ player.  what was jordan without pippen?  yeah, jordan was clearly ‘the guy,’ but he couldn’t get it done by himself.   

                • tonious35

                   Count the rings on both Pippen and Jordan’s fingers, they match don’t they?  They were built to need each other.

        • Theswirsky

          BC had another option other than appeasing Bosh… that was trading him.  The minute he turned down the contract extension  Bosh should have been out on the market to the highest bidder.  And nobody give me the “no one knew” he was leaving nonesense, because some of us were yelling this was going to happen. 

          If MLSE was keeping him from doing that it may be a different story, but that goes against what both they and BC have said in that they took a step back from B-Ball operations when BC was hired. 

          • Nilanka15

            But the Raptors were still a competitive team when Bosh turned down the extension.  Shortly after the all-star break, we were just a few games within Boston for the 4th seed last year.  Nobody would’ve predicted the collapse that took place during the final 30 games of last season.

            Imagine the travesty in Miami if Riley had traded Wade when he didn’t sign an extension? 

            • mountio

              Nilanka is right. Just wrote a long post that I deleted. Ill keep it short.
              There would have been riots on these boards if BC traded Bosh mid season, because we would have got back crap for him.
              The best we would have got for CB is 25-50 cents on the dollar MAX. He was a free agent and no one was gonna give up much for a guy whos gonna bolt in free agency the next year. (Or, if you are miami, why give up anything when you can get him for free).
              With LBJ, DW, Amare on the market last year, its a totally different situation than Melo this year. CB was a 2nd or 3rd piece to any team .. and until teams new what was up with these other guys, CB was irrelevant.
              Blame BC for other stuff, so for sure, but there just wasnt a lot he could have done in the CB situation. Sure, he might have got marginally better than a pick and the TPE .. but honestly, not much and would have ruined our chances to make a run – as Nilanka reminds us .. we were very much in the playoff hunt mid season.
              Please explain if Im missing something here ..

            • Theswirsky

              I’m not talking mid 09/10 seasons… I’m talking the season prior (08/09).   There was much discussion about it then. (Although I assume those who disagreed just marked it up to nonesense and impossibility…..)

              He had, for all intents and purposes, disappeared for the 2nd year in a row in the playoffs.  Talked about how he wanted to be MVP and deserved a Max contract… and then proceeded to turn one down when offered by BC. 

              His value would have been much higher (as he would have had 2 seasons left), and he was walking out the door anyways (atleast for those who were willing to listen and learn from the past)

              • Nilanka15

                Maybe I’m just naive, but I honestly don’t believe Bosh truly made his decision to leave until the summer of 2010.  But either side of this debate can never be proved.

                • Theswirsky

                  Whether Bosh did or didn’t make his decision really isn’t the issue… but rather it wasn’t worth the risk that he would (or could) leave and the team would get nothing in return.

                • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

                   So you feel a good GM would trade any player that doesn’t sign an extension?  Miami should have traded Wade, then.  The Lakers should have traded Kobe.  San Antonio should have traded TIm Duncan.  All those players were restricted free agents that nearly signed elsewhere.  

                • Theswirsky

                  not what I said at all.

                  Bosh wasn’t worth the money he was making (or going to make), and given Raptors player’s history (ie. players wanting to leave), and then Bosh not signing an extension… it wasn’t worth the risk keeping him.  (I’m not even going to get into the comments he made that season about not getting noticed which really shouldn’t have inspired confidence in him staying)

                  If Bosh was at the level of any of those guys you listed and/or in the locations that they were, I would agree that it would be worth the risk.  But he wasn’t.

                • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

                  THAT, I can understand, then.  The whole problem with Bosh, though, was that he was too good to just trade away, but he wasn’t good enough to lead the team anywhere.  In hindsight, Colangelo probably should have traded him as soon as he was hired.  But hindsight is 20/20.

                • Theswirsky

                  only hindsight for some of us…..

  • Statement

    This one goes out to Cesco and Rapthoseleafs,


    • RapthoseLeafs

      Yes … we know all about Berrihead.

      Curious how Chicago would have only lost 5.5 games without Rose.

      • RapthoseLeafs

        And Minny would’ve been a -3 and 85 without Love. Calling FAQ …..

        That must be an alternate universe.

  • Duncan

     Great podcast.  Much better sound quality than some in the past.

    I agree with PHD, Bryan now has the security to take it slowly and rebuild.  Have another crappy year where guys like DD, Davis, Bayless and our Rookie pay their dues and work on their game (hopefully their defense), then score another good pick in next years deep draft.
    The worst thing for him to do is sign a FA to a significant deal.

    • Tinman

      A two year deal is not all that secure and I am not sure BC has the personality or patience for the slow rebuild. That was last year’s plan. 
      Look for Trader Brian to try to speed up this rebuild plan.

  • Rpsfan95

    Jose and LB deserve a chance on contenders, take Knight/Kemba

    theres no reason Bargs can’t be a more efficient 10-10 guy, i just don’t get it, 5 more possesions in the paint instead of on the perimeter would be so crucial

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

      Andrea had 2 double doubles on the season and one came in overtime against the Nets in London. lol

      Andrea, being the 2nd longest tenured Raptors player, represents is all that’s wrong with the Rap’s- all offense no defense.

      • points

        triple over time 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_RYXR4PLSLRZWN4OXN6IPENPBSA Jason Alvarez

    Coaching Staff, Reggie Evans, Jose Calderon & Sonny got to go.  

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

       Andrea, who needs to get a flu shot, has to go as well he quit on the Rap’s post London and is full of bad karma in the TDot.

  • Mediumcore

    The Raptors have to convert that pick and assets into either a starting PG, SF or C which meanst they try to either to move up the draft to get D. Will or maybe Kanter if he show cases well during the summer. Kyrie is the only true PG in the draft and there is no way Clevland is going to give him up. If moving up the draft is not a possibility then I think they should trade the pick and assets for a starter. A team that loses 60 games can’t afford to only improve their bench roster which anybody else they could draft would be for atleast a couple of years. 

  • Raptor4Ever

     Great Rap Cast guys. The voice of reason on this board. Thank you.

    • Raptor4Ever

      Love the part about the culture of town in supporting the looser teams :) :) It is so true and you can see it on this board. 

  • Mediumcore

    Been hearing a lot of support for Kemba Walker with our 5th pick and wanted to know if a player in the mould of Arron Brooks, J.J. Bererra or maybe an Early Boykins is the best we can do with that 5th pick in this years draft. Points of the bench are already there with Barbosa and Bayless, and I can’t see Kemba as a starter. There’s a reason why Jason Kidd at the age of 62 still starts at PG over Jason Terry and J.J. Barerra right?  

    • yertu damkule

      ‘There’s a reason why Jason Kidd at the age of 62 still starts at PG over Jason Terry and J.J. Barerra right.’

      yes.  and it’s because kidd is an actual PG.  terry is a SG, & barea is, a 5’7″ combo guard.

      but i see your point.  i can’t get over the fascination with walker either.  it seems as though the talk of drafting a PG started when it became evident that winning the lottery was a possibility, and that an actual ‘special’ PG might be available.  or before some of the bigger names dropped out (sullinger, barnes, jones) & it was feasible that irving could drop to the raps if they didn’t have the first pick.

      to me, picking a PG who isn’t irving just seems silly.

      • Mediumcore

        And yet, so many people are in love with the idea of drafting an undersized SG with the 5th pick….actually people were talking about us doing that even when there was a chance we could have had the 3rd pick.  

      • points

        how about one that just won a college championship and has heart and size were talking bout size  

        • yertu damkule

          walker is 6 ft tall (maybe).  are you referring to the size of his heart?  i can’t dispute that, he put his team on his back & won a grueling big east tourney, and carried them to the ncaa championship.  what happens in college sometimes translates to the pros…and sometimes it doesn’t.  he has sufficient intangibles & skills that will allow him to be a contributor at the next level…i just question what he would bring to the raps.  obviously (IMO) neither jose or bayless are long term solution as starting PG, but i’m not sure that when there are so many holes that need addressing it makes sense to reach for a guy who won’t actually fill a need…and who isn’t clearly the ‘best available.’

  • YeDig

    Author must be a Toronto Star reader the way he backtalks BC.  He’s taken risks, they haven’t panned out.  I think he has done an admirable job in the post-Chris Bosh era–that time is why he was granted an extension.  In a ‘what have you done for me lately’ business, lately, Colangelo has done as good a job as anyone else could do in his position.

    • yertu damkule

      ah, 2011…where 10 months constitutes an ‘era.’  well played. 

      • Theswirsky


    • Raptor4Ever

      Will you tell the same thing to your stock broker who just blow up half of your portfolio ??

      Great Job man, you took the risk and it did not pan out. Here is more money for you to play with.

      If this is your attitude, then please give me your contact information because I would love to have understanding client like you.

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

     FYI- The Raptors are no longer in a REBUILD as BC has a new WINNING PLAN as per Peddie though no details were given of BC’s new Winning Plan.lol

    BC is fucking a Soap Opera in action changing up the game while most fans remain mentally lame.

  • Boomer

     Haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere (at least lately).   There’s always talk of how either a) BC has to go, or b) We have to keep him because he’s better than any other options.
    Has anyone ever touched on Kevin Pritchard at all? I’d like to see an article maybe about potential available/rumoured next in line GM’s, or assistant GM’s. Much in the mold of guys like Sam Presti, young ones who left San Antonio to step out of being an assistant, and becoming a full time GM. 

    • yertu damkule

      lots of discussion on this over in the forums. 

  • rapsssssssssssss

     they betterrrrrrrrrrrr NOT bringn back triano

    • yertu damkule

      you mean, for the final year of his deal? 

  • Kevin

    Brandon Knight is our man

  • James

     To Matt53 :

    It seems like Barbosa is going to stick around 😉 , Once again, you have been proven Wrong !!! It is great to be right .

  • guest

    ”  Maybe I’m at the point where I was hoping for a change for the sake of a change, maybe I’m being impetuous and short-sighted in my thinking,Truer words were never written!

  • Fuckingidoits

    good to see many of you faggots still blaming the teams woes on bargs. keep it real. real fucking dumb.

    • Theswirsky


      Good to see many of you faggots still blaming Bargs woes on the team.  Keep it real.  Real fucking dumb.


    • yertu damkule

      would this comment be considered ‘malicious?’ or just a ‘personal attack on our intellience or commitment to the franchise.’

    • Nilanka15

      But, but, but…Reggie keeps stealing his rebounds…. 

  • FAQ

    This is about as good as it will get for a long loooooooong time …. so stop b!tching and just enjoy NBA b’ball in Toronto, Canada.

  • kaine

    I can’t believe that in this land the perception is that the problem is Bargnani.
    bargs is the only starter that could have been a starter on a good team. he is a big man with a refined offensive skill set and I’m still reading that he should come from the bench :(
    with all is flaws, he still got good and rare talent.
    raptors’ problem are
    2)thin talent at 2 & 3 positions and in general at the wing position
    3)the fact that good free agent are more eager to play in the u.s.a.

    I understands that bargs is frustrating. he can be a better player, and should.
    but to make him a scapegoat for all the others mistake is not a good
    basket evaluation 

    • FAQ

      I agree … and your point #3 is significant.  US players prefer to stay “home” in the USA for lifestyle and patriotic reasons.  “Star” players won’t stay in Toronto because they can earn more in the US “endorsement” market.

      International players don’t have the same hangups as US players … and can survive well in Toronto.

    • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

      Believe or not, there’s a very large portion of the population, and quite a number of smart basketball people, who believe Bargnani would be lucky to be a rotation player on a good team that like their big men to actually be able to rebound and defend.  

      • James

        LOL, Really !!!and we are suppose to take your word for it, a guy who has personal agenda for AB !!! How do you like this stat:
        Believe it or not, there a very large portion of the population, and quite a number of smart basketball people, who believe Tm W is a Dumb ASS. 

        Get your head out of AB’s Ass and stop trolling on every single article here with you spam about AB and ….

      • kaine

         I undestand that he is frustrating to watch, at times
        it’s perfectly resonable to want him traded.
        but the guy is clearly a starter in this league, and a good one.
        to not acknowledge this is just ridiculous
        I’m also suspecting that a coach that is player friendly is a tool to attract american player… :(

        • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

          How is he clearly a starter?  He is definitely an above average scorer, but he is below average at everything else.  Scoring is nice, but the NBA scrapheap is full of players that could do nothing more than score.  Bargnani literally has a negative impact on the team.  And that’s not just an opinion.  Just about every advanced stat backs this up.  To not acknowledge that is ridiculous.

  • Tinman

     I stopped counting the grammatical errors after the first paragraph

  • Statement

    Shayne Batty! 

  • tonious35

    Somehow he reminds me of the retarded sounding kids from this Felsner GI Joe clip:


  • Arsenalist

     That’s Overeem’s thing.  You learn to live with it.

  • Tinman

    sory, dint meen to ofend 

  • Statement

    Gotta lay off Overeem dude 

  • Tinman

    I can help him 

  • Ghotte

    Overeem’s trying to hard 

  • RapthoseLeafs

    Just throwing this out there … but what about Flynn to Toronto for Calderon and switched draft picks. And if we can snag another PG (via free agency), have Bayless back-up at the 2 (where he can provide fast break scoring).

  • Statement

    It’s David Khan so anything is possible,

    But to give up the number two pick in the draft to get Calderon is something I don’t think even he would do.

    Have Bayless back-up at the 2?  Does that mean we would switch Flynn to starting point guard or play him at point guard, period?
    What is it with your love for crappy players? 

  • Statement

    Are you, in fact, David Khan? 

  • Nilanka15

    It’s a stretch, but if Minny’s planning on bringing in Rubio next year, Calderon would probably be the perfect vet to teach Rubio the NBA game, help him with culture shock, language barrier, etc. in addition to their familiarity with each other’s game playing for Spain.

    Flynn does suck balls…I would want no part in bringing him to Toronto.  But perhaps with Calderon and the 5th pick, the 2nd pick and Ridnour might be available.  Ridnour can backup Bayless this year.  If Bayless becomes a legit PG, we’re set.  If not, we aim to draft a starting PG next summer. 

  • yertu damkule

    flynn isn’t nearly as bad as some here seem to suggest.  he’s no allstar, and probably isn’t starting calibre on a good team…but he’s not a waste of space either.  succeeding in the nba is all about the situation you’re in at a particular time/place.  i just find it ironic how everyone is completely at ease commenting on just how fucked up the Twolves are as an organization, but never making the connection that that may be why flynn has struggled so much.  you put him in a system friendly to younger players (esp young PGs), or in a situation in which he’s got a vet PG to mentor him, and i think he’d surprise a lot of people.

  • yertu damkule


    in a way, i have a hard time thinking that minny would trade love in any scenario that didn’t net them something significant in return. 

    on the other hand…if they feel rubio is a lost cause, and if they feel they’ll lose love to FA shortly anyway…getting a top-5 pick, a solid defensive PF & an upcoming SG would be enticing for them.  i think they say no, but i think they at least think about it.

    of course, that’s assuming that such a deal were presented by the raps in the first place…which i have a hard time believing.  pairing love with bargs in the frontcourt would not be good from a defensive standpoint…but at least he’d offset bargs anti-penchant for rebounding.

  • Raptor4Ever

    Kevin Love is an ALL-STAR who any team that wants to rebuild is thriving to have !! Why would Wolfs trade him ? 

    How is Amir + fifth pick will help them out here  ??

    Wolfs is building the right way, They have a great PF in place now who they can use as one of main player to rebuilt.  

    They have Rubio that is a good and could be a great PG.

    They got Johnson and the 2nd pick and ….

    What does DD and Amir Johnson give them that they don’t already have ??

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

     From Playoffs (preseason) to Rebuild to Winning Plan let the BC pr media spins begin anew.

  • Raptor4Ever

    Also Lets not forget, Amir Johnson is having an ankle surgery this summer which really lowers his trade value !!!

    This is for all those morons on this board who were praising Amir for playing hurt in the games that DID NOT mean anything while getting dominated. 

    An Injury that could have been healed by physical therapy and … now requires surgery. Here is to all of you geniuses. 

  • yertu damkule

    ‘What does DD and Amir Johnson give them that they don’t already have ??’a legit 2?  a 2nd first rounder in this draft?  SOMETHING for rubio, who may either a) not be coming to minny for some time (if ever), or b) not be that good to begin with?i think you may have something of a reading comprehension problem.  re-read my 2nd & 3rd paragraphs.  i recognize how good love is…but, he’s a sub-par defender, and given how dysfunctional that organization is, i can’t believe he’d consider re-upping there.  maybe i’m wrong, and maybe the new CBA will make it easier for the wolves to keep him…or harder.

  • Raptor4Ever

    LOL, Love is sub par defender , Rubio might not come in !! 2nd draft pick in a weak draft !! 

    Go and post this trade scenario in the Wolfs website and see how many people will actually agree that this is good trade for Wolfs. This is Steal of a trade for us:

    1) We are getting a potential great PG . We are getting an ALL_STAR PF, a guy who is double double machine. 

    2) What are we giving out? A 2 who can not defend, has a weak 3 point shot and a questionable handle on the ball and as it stand, might be a solid starter in this league in future. We also giving out a PF with limited talent and bum ankle who bring energy and also a fifth pick in a Weak Draft !!!

    The bottom line is this: Rubio and Love are the type of players who GMs love to build their team around while DD+ Amir+ fifth pick in a weak Draft , although show promises, do NOT come close to the  combo of Rubio and Love.

    Wolfs can get alot more than DD+ Amir+ Fifth pick for Love and Rubio if they decide that they do not want to go forward with this two.

    Then you bring the dysfunctional organization into this argument !! Are you for REAL ?? Are we, the Raptors, an organization to point finger at the others ?? How many ALL-STARs decided to stay in Toronto and …. This would have been a valid argument if we were a Bulls, Lakers, San Antonio or … Not when we are Raptors !!!!

    Again, I challenge you to post this in the Wolf fan website and see how many people will like it.

  • Theswirsky

    I’m sorry Yertu but have you watched him play against anyone other than Toronto (important here because Toronto makes everyone look great)?  do you put any level of faith in stats?

    both say much differently to “he’s not a waste of space”. 

  • yertu damkule

    yes, i have.  and i honestly have no idea what his stats are.  i simply don’t believe he’s as bad as he’s being made out to be.  i’m probably wrong about him, and he’ll be playing in russia in 3 years.  however, i firmly believe that what makes or breaks young players – esp. PG – is the situation they’re put in out of the gate.  and i just can’t write off a player who’s had to endure the carnival that is the timberwolves. 

  • yertu damkule

    again with the reading comprehension, or lack thereof.  i’m not gonna debate with you, since you’re clearly only interested in spinning this to make it seem as though i’m proposing this as a valid trade scenario.  i presented the argument for why minny (oh, btw…it’s the fucking WOLVES, hawking.  says so right on the jersey…i dunno wtf ‘wolfs’ is…though i’m guessing you’re a ‘leafs’ fan) might consider it: IF they felt they were losing love to FA, and IF they felt rubio wasn’t going to come over.  i also stated quite clearly that if they were presented with the offer, they’d refuse it…but i do think they’d think about it.  maybe for just a few seconds, but still…

  • Raptor4Ever

    There is no problem with reading comprehension here Pal. 
     “i presented the argument for why minny (….) might   consider it”

    And on the other hand, I simply provided you with logical answers on why your scenario is childish and simple minded and not even close to Reality.
    Next time, when you decided to write a trade scenario, try to think that other team’s GM has at least Brain and Basketball IQ of a 5 year Old.

    Now, have a great Day.

  • yertu damkule

    FWIW, i didn’t write the trade proposal, i responded to one written by overeem.  are you sure you don’t have problems with reading comprehension?  or is it a broader problem?

    anyway, you seem fairly intent on making this into something, apparently on the premise that trades that appear completely ludicrous (to you) never happen.  you happen to believe that the idea presented by overeem is childish & simple-minded & not close to reality.  that’s fine.  we disagree.  big shock.  get over yourself.

  • Raptor4Ever

    LOL, two post earlier you were claiming credit for this trade and now looking back at it and seeing how stupid it was, backing down.

    So be it Pal. As you said, we disagree and enough time has been wasted on that dumb idea.