When a team has as many question marks as the Raptors do, no one position can be termed as needing critical attention. The poll on the left side of the screen says that the majority of Raptors fans would like to see the team draft a point guard, with the center a distant but notable priority. You can’t go wrong either way, both are amongst the needs of this team as it tries to climb it’s way out of a rut that feels like it started decades ago. And this summer will, as have all the others, start with expectations beginning with the draft pick. Expectation is the midwife to disappointment. Keeping perspective in a rebuilding situation is very difficult and I find that I need to remind myself that whatever happens in the draft, or in the summer that follows, the results on the court next year are unlikely to change.

The equation is simple enough. Teams are loading up in the Eastern conference and playoff contention is harder than it has ever been, it’s not that there are great teams in the East, it’s that there are enough mediocre ones who happen to be better than the Raptors. If playoff basketball is the short-term goal, the question to be asked is what can be done to move ahead of the likes of Indiana, Milwaukee, Charlotte and Philadelphia. And honestly speaking, is playoff basketball the short-term goal or is the consistent form of it the ultimate goal for a franchise like Toronto? The teams seen as the Raptors’ “peers” have similar issues as them, they usually have one good, above-average, potentially All-Star quality player surrounded by a mediocre group of guys who try to claw their way into the playoffs, knowing very well that they’re going to get their asses handed to them come the post-season. They’re not exactly attractive NBA markets and will always be considered second-best in a race to sign a big name free-agent.

Contenders in this day and age are not formed by harvesting draft picks and turning them into All-Stars who lead you to glory, gone are the days of Jordan and Pippen, Malone and Stockton, Thomas and Dumars, shining examples of teams investing in the draft, growing through disastrous years, mediocre seasons, heartbreaking playoff campaigns, before reaching true contention. Contenders are now formed through amalgamation of existing All-Stars, not nurture. I’m not suggesting that it is impossible to contend for a title using the old formula of breeding your draft picks into high-quality NBA players, and then topping it off with key well-placed free-agent signings, it just happens to be increasingly rare. Oklahoma City could be the only current example of going that route, everyone else has bought their title credentials on the market.

The odds are that without splashing into the free-agent market, a team will always be stuck in mediocrity, an example would be the Atlanta Hawks. Not that it’s a concern for the Raptors right now, they’re at the bottom of the barrel and anything is an improvement. I tell myself that we’ll have the conversation of signing a big-name free agent when the time comes, until then we’ll just clean house and make the situation attractive enough for that all-important free-agent to seriously look at Toronto as a place where there success can be achieved. To be in such a position, though, a team needs a magnet that will attract talent. It doesn’t even have to be a great W-L record, it needs a player that can capture the imagination of his peers and intrigue them about the possibility of playing with him.

Look no further than the Bulls, in two years of .500 ball, Derrick Rose put the Bulls in a position where any free-agent would covet playing with him. The Knicks signed Amare Stoudamire which led to the trade for Carmelo Anthony, we already know about Miami, before Boston began its run, they had Paul Pierce as the main cog in their wheel, Dirk Nowitzki in Dallas, Dwight Howard in Orlando and so on. As of today, the Raptors lack that player and the chief hope is that DeMar DeRozan turns into that kind of player. Based on his first two years, superstardom doesn’t appear to be in his forecast, maybe an All-Star like Joe Johnson or a good solid player like Jason Richardson is what a betting man would lean towards. This is why I was hoping the Raptors would score in the lottery, to have a chance at injecting the team with that player that has been missing since Vince Carter, one who would not only improve the product on the court, but more importantly, one would excite and entice others to join him because that is what is ultimately important.

Going back to the start of this 2:38 AM post, my expectations of this franchise have never been high. Never have I seriously talked myself into believing that we are title hopefuls or that the people running this organization are aiming for a championship. I don’t even hold it against them, they’re just hoping to get lucky and strike gold, much like every other mid-market NBA team. Cleveland felt the joy with LeBron for a few seasons until reality hit them hard, we did the same with Vince for a couple years, it’s all about getting a couple players and riding a few winning seasons out of them. For the Raptors, they have a player in DeRozan that will sufficiently provide the illusion of growth to the starved fans of the club, the reality on the ground is harsher: mediocrity breeds complacency and unless the Raptors strike gold in one of these drafts, all every season will amount to is fighting for the eighth seed.

The rebuild that is going on is happening in good faith, I have no doubts about that, my fear is that the Raptors are investing in known entities. Maybe it’s the Drambuie and Lime Cordial talking, but I’m thinking that on the heels of the lottery disappointment, the Raptors need to pair DeRozan with a player of equal or greater caliber. Drafting Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker, Enes Kanter or anybody else and chugging along on the rebuilding train is the easiest (and maybe even the best) thing to do, and it appears the board is also sold in it, there is a way however that this process can be accelerated: find a way to get someone like Tyreke Evans out of Sacramento, where the team is bleeding money and the ownership and location is in question (umm, get ‘er done BC?). The win-expectation for next year won’t necessarily change, what will happen is that the Raptors will have a shot at having a legitimate one-two punch. Of course, making such a move would have been a whole lot easier if the Raptors had the second or even the third pick. As it stands, Colangelo has an early decision to make – use the pick to make this team even younger or flip it to complement DeRozan.

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  • Ghotte

     I get people talking about acquiring Enes Kantor, Walker or even Knight. But, I watched vids of Jonas Valanciunas and I just don’t get what people see in him. Even Vesely seems a much better prospect than Valanciunas. 

    • Triano?

      Most overrated prospects in the draft: Walker, Valanciunas, Biyombo, Fredette 

      • Nilanka15

        I’m somewhat intrigued by Walker with the 5th pick.  Although undersized, he could be exactly the type of exciting player paired beside DeRozan, than can excite would-be free agents.

        Defensively, there’s obviously room for improvement, but I think that would be a very interesting backcourt nonetheless.

        Pre-draft workouts, analysis, and blog discussions almost always focus entirely on a player’s physical tools (his height, weight, quickness, leaping ability, wing span, handles, etc.).  Rarely do we discuss a player’s psyche simply because we have very little information to work with. 

        But in Walker’s case, we’ve seen a kid who literally put his team on his back, is a born leader, has proven to handle big game pressure, plays well in crunch time, and has a taste of what it takes to achieve championship success.  Walker has a TON of intangibles that can’t be seen in workouts. 

        I realize he’s not a true PG, but there’s part of me that can see us regretting passing up on a potentially special player.

        • hotfuzz

          Ww would have to get a very good defensive otherwise our backcourt D would suck for years to come. Unless Derozan has or the whole raptors squad undergoes some sort of a defensive revolution.

          • hotfuzz

             read very defensive PG

        • DG88

           Walker measured 6’1 with shoe’s he ain’t undersized. Plus he’s a better passer than most people think. He had to be the primary scorer for Uconn

          • I can’t find any measurements from the combine, yet.  If Walker really did measure 6’1 with shoes, either he’s got really thick soles, or his teammates are taller than they are saying.

        • points

          that was great

      • tonious35

         I want Walker, he just has heart.  He wears his heart on his sleeve.  We lack players who wear their hearts on their sleeves.  We now pay the most money to players who have their hearts shoved up their bung-holes.

        • Triano?

          I’m sure there are plenty of players with “heart” playing basketball in the special Olympics, but this doesn’t mean I would want them on my basketball team. 

          • tonious35

            Some special Olympic players might actually outplay Bargs on defense. :p

            • Nilanka15


              • Pran

                 figures youd laugh you faggot.

                • Nilanka15

                  Now you’re using other people’s names?  Fucking Bargnani cock-sucking fanboy.  Did I mention you’re mom’s a slut, Joshua Reynolds? 

                • ShaneA

                  Can you fellas start acting like men and not like Jerry Springer guests? Comeon, this is a website to talk about basketball-not internet bitchen  

            • Balls of Steel

              Several months ago, someone postulated that perhaps Bargs has Autism (or in the very least an appearance of having one). Now, I’m a teacher and have students with Autism. As much as I think it’s politically incorrect to laugh when someone suggests that Bargs looks like he’s Autistic, I laughed anyway.

              • C.d.G.

                Balls of Tin, you are most repulsing type of people you can find around: prone to politically correct, but/and  always ready to jump on the mass consensus and be cowardly nasty.
                Moreover, I can tell your “sense of humour” smels deeply of racism. If you are such a brave man, why don’t you try to say the same on a black player?
                Is this the renowned courage of Canadian people?

                • Theswirsky

                  ahh the racism card.   Ofcourse.  Cause canada is known widely for its hate of white people. 

                  “why don’t you try to say the same on a black player”

                  …. hmmm curious you would even make this statement. 

                • Who are you kidding, Canadians are rascists.  The worst part about it is they are the first to condemn others for being rascist but ignore their own actions. 

                • Theswirsky

                  really Canandians are racist?  all Canadians?  some Canadians?  towards who?  everyone… including other Canadians? or specific Canadians?  Can you lump all Canadians into one basket?  isn’t that a bit racist in and of itself?

                  The race card is a ridiculous accusation made around here by people who can no longer defend a player they like or can’t understand how someone else can’t like the player they do so the only “reasonable” explanation left is racism. 

                  Personally I’ve been called racist towards both whites (because I disliked Bargnani) and blacks (because I disliked Bosh).  Although I have never been called racist towards Asians no matter how much I dislike Yi and think Yao was overrated… but thats neither here nor there. 

                  I’ve heard people say that individuals are racist towards Spanish players because of what they said about Jose, even though in that same thread the “racist person” talked about how much they liked Garbo  

                  I’m just amazed at the generalization thats made towards people and groups based on absolutely nothing.  “Canadians are racist”, “sense of humour that smells deeply of racisim”.  Man what a joke you two are. 

                •  You are racist towards people who call people racist.

                • Juicey

                  Hey stop that, you are being racist towards people who are racist towards people who call people racist.

                  Not cool man, not cool. 

                •  Racist.

                • The funny thing I wasnt even refering to basketball when I refer to Canadians being rascist.  Look at the summit series, and how Russians were labelled by Canadians?  That was 40 years ago, and yet if you tune in to CBC during HNIC, you’ll still hear some loudmouth refer to Russians, and any other european player, as spineless and lacking in heart.  Obviously not all Canadians are rascist, I was just making a point that Canadians shouldn’t be  excluded from that criticism. 

                • Rasheedunc

                  racist…learn to spell 

          • points

            yah you want  players bargs, u ah fooool 

            • points

              players like bargs 

      • hateslosing

        Val: dude is a legit 7 footer with a high motor who has been playing very well in the Euro league. He’s definitely a project but he has the potential to be the next Gasol or Noah.

        Walker: Lit up the Tournament, if he can overcome the size thing he’ll be very good.

        Bismack: Ridiculously athletic 6’9″ beast of a man. Serge Ibaka’s success is definitely increasing his stock. 

        Fredette: As a 10-15 pick I think he’s a good choice. You know at the very least he can be a bench shooter like Eddie House or Peja and at best he could be a less talented Steve Nash (if he learns to pass). He would also be fantastic in the triangle.

        All four of those guys are good prospects, I don’t know that I would take Walker or Fredette with the 5th but they are not overrated. This is a draft where no one, not even the consesus number one, doesn’t have some serious flaw. I mean, Irving missed like half the season with an injury and people are still praising him as the second coming.

        • points

          size we talking about size not heart size, when it comes to cardiac kemba i’m not worried about size,he’ll be pest and going for steals plus he has the HEART of a champion, we already have a 7ft. #1 pick who gets lots rebounds and blocks shots and score but no HEART. (EARL BOYKINS /NATE ROBINSON /ALLEN IVERSON) do the math

          • Mediumcore

            I dunno if you use a 5th pick on earl boykins or nate robinson…A.I. type players are very rare.  

            • mountio

              exactly damon stoudamire is his upside. Nate / Earl / Shawn Respert more likely 

  • JW

    “Contenders in this day and age are not formed by harvesting draft picks and turning them into All-Stars who lead you to glory”

    Ummm… Rose,Noah and Deng?

    • Brian

       … and Durant, Westbrook, Harden, Ibaka?

      • Iamacow

        @Brian: He said the exception is OKC
        @JW: They still had to bring in Boozer and an All-Star coach to make it happen.

        • Theswirsky

          and Kurt Thomas + half the Utah Jazz team…. 

        • mountio

          Ya – i dont think whether or not the Raps should build through the draft is impacted by whether teams have added the odd free agent. Of course teams will likely add free agents to round out their team (as Chi did, even Perk in OKC). But, it doesnt change the fact that we should be building through the draft like crazy, and only when we get a core that has some true value does it make sense to think about key free agents ..  

  • JW

    Durant, Westbrook and Harden?

    • mountio

      Exactly. And more importantly .. what markets seem the most similar in terms of attracting free agents. OKC and Toronto or Miami, LA, New York and Toronto?
      I think we all know the answer …
      There is only one way to go here .. draft, draft again, and draft some more .. Weve got a decent start in DD and Ed. Lets hope we can luck into the #1 or #2 pick next year (a good lookin draft) .. and we might be on our way.  

    • Riazan

      well done genius, but he mentioned okc in the article. 

      • JW

        Mentioning it did not make it go away, maybe it was meant to dismiss the obvious, but the argument fails as far as the importance of the draft is concerned.

        The truth is that a strong draft was critical to all the teams mentioned.

    • Ddan71

      Spurs. Duncan, Ginobli and Parker. Had a bad first round but were still second best team this year. 

      • SR

        Also, Orlando drafted Howard, Miami – Wade, Lakers – Kobe, Boston – Pierce…on and on. Most playoff teams drafted their main piece, or at least a main piece who helped lure FA’s. Let’s not get carried away by what happened in South Beach last summer.

  •  Interesting article.  First off, I thought the poll was pointless.  The Raptors don’t need to draft a position.  They need to draft the best player regardless of position, so I didn’t vote.  As you said, this team lacks too much to pick and choose what position.  That said, all things being equal, a center is probably the position of most importance to the Raptors.  It’s the hardest position to fill (with a reasonably high level player), it would make moving Bargnani much easier, and there are very few good centers in next year’s draft.  

    And while you make a good point about contenders amalgamating talent, rather than drafting it, I think that may change after the new CBA.  Stern and company know better than anyone that the way things are going is not good for the league.  Only a few select teams are ever attractive to free agents, anyway, and the farther north you go, the fewer there are.  That means Toronto’s best chance of building a contender to to try and go Oklahoma’s route and build through the draft.  

    I do know there are a lot of fans that simply wish for a perennial playoff team.  The VInce Carter days are looked at fondly, but my problem is they were really a failure.  They only made it past the second round once, it simply wasn’t sustainable due to Glen Grunwald giving up youth for a couple of years of success with older veterans.  Plus, Vince simply wasn’t the type of player who could lead a team to a Championship.  He was an earlier version of Carmelo Anthony- a great scoring wingman who really didn’t do anything else at an elite level and didn’t expend much energy at the defensive end.  

    Lastly, I can’t hate your idea about getting Tyreke Evans more.  I have never been a big fan of his, and I think he’s the type of player that will struggle finding a role on a better team.  He needs the ball in his hands to be effective, but he’s simply not a good enough player to be able to lead a team anywhere doing that.  He’s not an efficient scorer, he doesn’t make his teammates better and he’s not a good defender.  

    • Ghotte

      The only defense I’ll point out about the Raptor’s so-called glory years was that there was a sense of growth; of making transactions to improve to possibly get to another round. After the 2nd round exit it seemed there was a chance to make one or two small moves but, of course, things imploded from that point forward.

      • Nilanka15

        Carter’s injury the following year causing him to miss the playoffs vs. Detroit was a HUGE factor.  Memories of Chris Childs chucking up a half-court prayer with 4 seconds left still keeps me awake at night. 

        •  What was also a huge factor was the fact that Antonio Davis and Charles Oakley were close to collecting old age pensions when they joined the Raptors.  Their success, however limited it was, was not sustainable, and because they had so few young players and so few valuable assets (how valuable is a 38 year old PF?), their ceiling was not very high.  

          • Theswirsky

            the success and failure can be directly linked to 2 things:

            -Vince Carter
            -Tracy McGrady

            its not a suprise that the team fell apart when McGrady left and then Vince quitting.   

            Grunwald did things right.  Drafted good young players… added solid veterans and leadership.  Then Vince got it in his head that he owned the team and could dictate the rules…. turned out he could.  Thats when things went to shit.  It wasn’t because Antonio Davis and Oakley were to “old”.

            • I already posted this in the forum a while back, so I’ll just repeat it here…

              Grunwald certainly did a few things well like acquiring Vince Carter, but fans complain about Colangelo trading away picks and young talent. Man, he’s got nothing on Grunwald, who 
              – traded 2 first round draft picks for a 36 year old PF on the downside of his career (Kevin Willis) 
              – traded a 23 year old former 2nd pick (while his stock was low) for a 35 year old PF on the downside of his career and who only stayed with the team for 3 years (Charles Oakley)
              – traded away the 5th pick in the draft (bypassing players like Richard Hamilton, Andre Miller and Shawn Marion) for a 31 year old offensively challenged PF/C (antonio Davis) to play beside the team’s other offensively challenged PFs. 
              – traded ANOTHER 1st round pick for a 39 year old Hall of Fame center who didn’t even have one good year left. He wasn’t done, though. 
              – traded another 1st round pick to get a 30 year old mediocre SF (Lamond Murray) who ended up being another disaster (added to the Hakeem one). And that lost draft pick was often blamed on Colangelo because it ended up being the 2007 pick.

              Grunwald also drafted Aleksandar Radojevic instead of Ron Artest, Corey Maggette, Jeff Foster and even Andrei Kirilenko. He also drafted Michael Bradley instead of Zach Randolph, Brendan Haywood, Gerald Wallace, Samuel Dalembert and Tony Parker. He had Chauncey Billups, Doug Christie, Marcus Camby and Tracy McGrady BEFORE they peaked and didn’t get much for any of them. 

              The big problem I had with Grunwald was that he went for the quick fix and surrounded Vince with as many veterans as he could, which meant that what little success they had couldn’t have been sustained because everyone on the team except Vince was on the downside of their career. The fall the Raptors had was inevitable, even if Vince hadn’t been injured. And his average record while in charge of the Raptors is less than 50%, for what is an average of 38 wins a year.

              • Theswirsky

                I can’t say I agree with this.

                Antonio Davis and Oakley were key players on the team but relatively replaceable (I say relatively because they obviously had intangible assets they added which would have been difficult to replace)…. the picks he gave up were not good picks.  And Bender for Davis turned out to be a steal.

                That team was on upward momentum until 2 things happened.   Vince DEMANDED Hakeem (+his injury) and McGrady wanting to leave.  I’m not gonna defend Grunwald for grabbing Hakeem becuase it was dumb (and led to the team being unable to resign Clark), but Vince demanded it in order to resign, and at that point in his career… the guy was on route to being the best player in the league (+the money he was making for the organziation)… what choice did Grunwald have? 

                I guarantee you this… if Vince didn’t loose all heart, McGrady didn’t ask to leave, (and Davis didn’t demand out… and I’ll add Alvin Williams career ending injury) that team would have been in a very different situation for the next few years.  Unfortunately when it rains it pours, and man that was a monsoon in a short period of time.

                To me arguing that the peripheral players were “too old” is not a problem.  When you look at the teams left in the playoffs OKC is the only team that doesn’t have aged peripheral players. 

              • Zuluman

                 Vince Carter asked for one thing that every pissed off player that left Toronto asked for….A Good GM and  Good Coach at the same time. for some reason the raptors always fell short in getting these two things at the same time. the most successful teams get it right.  grunwald was never a GM and never should have been he was a salary cap specialist. thats it thats all!
                Vince asked for Dr. J a legendary player that knows talent and would be able to assess talent and recruit players…but they didnt want to listen and he left and the team fell apart.
                Now we have a Nzarcacist as a GM that hires the worst coach in the NBA and there was anarchy. noone wanted to play for him he was ignored by any player with NBA experience

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  VC was promised to have a voice in operation hirings but they didn’t even really let him speak his piece so VC got pissed off & wanted out- rightfully so.

                  Julius Erving would have been a nice move as President or GM back then or even now but we are stuck in BC’s repetitive BullChit for 2, maybe 3, more years.

                • Nilanka15

                  I don’t understand the fascination with Dr. J as a front office executive?  What has he done to show he can handle such a job?  He has just as much potential as [insert any random retired player’s name here].

                • Zuluman

                   Dr. J is one of the greatest players ever. when he says to a free agent…I want to to play for me…I can teach you something. i will take care of you..it carries weight. A mouve shirt and pick tie doesnt make a free agent want to play for you

                • Give me a break.  This is the most ridiculous attempt to justify how unproffessional Vince behaved.  This guy was a loser who had a high opinion of himself, and since he has left he has only proven this to be true.  Dr. J doesnt have a clue how to run the operations of a team and for you to suggest he does because he’s Vince’s buddy is ridiculous.  There is a reason he hasnt been given that opportunity and probablly never will. 

                  Free agents do not care who the president is if he doesnt have winning tradition and clear objective.  According  to your logic, the Charlotte Bobcats should be the best team in the league because they have MJ and he was a better player then Dr. J.  I don’t see any free agents running to play for Charlotte.

                • points

                  doc rivers stole tmac from us and it’s not easy playing for mj he’s the one handing out the money .  

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

                  We’ll see what the Bobcats do once they have the relative cap space to attract f/a talent. 

                  Dr J lends instant credibilty as he is a NBA Hall Of Fame Legend- who’s checking for BC?

                •  Yeah I guess being voted executive of the year 3 times doesnt count for anything.  I would much rather have the guy who hasnt been hired by anybody and probablly never will be.  Its niaive to believe that Dr. J would attract people to this city, because if it were that easy, then every team would find a Dr. J to hire. 

                • Cuttyd

                   why dont you stop and look around the league. how many teams have living legends as coaches and gms. in the last decade name a team that has won anything without having a former player as  coach or gm. It just doesnt happen. And by the way THERE IS ONLY 1 DR. J. when we approach a player and he wonders who is gonna teach me how to play…who is it Jay T. or brian C. no player takes toronto seriously because our coach is a clown and our GM is all flash and no substance. 

                • points

                  true thing 

                • Pran

                   fucking moron…..who’s dr.j and what has he done since he played for the sixers other then make bastard children?

                • according to some, that kind of activity brings credibility to a franchise. 

                • Cuttyd

                   actually the bastard was made during the time of the 76ers

              • The Choosen One

                 You also have to remember back then veterans were in demand…veterans were key to victory in the playoffs.  It is only now that you see all this youth movement.  Blaming GG for not getting youth back then is a flawed argument.

                • Theswirsky

                  I argue they still are.

                  The only team lacking veterans left in the playoffs is OKC.  Dallas is almost nothing but vets…. in Miami Howard, Damp, Big Z, Magloire, Bibby, Miller…. Chicago Thomas, Boozer, Bogans, and Korver.

                  If we look back its not often young teams are the ones winning championships.  While the core players will usually be young… the teams as a hole are not.  

                  I would also mention at that point in time, the age of highschool drafting was underway, while most of the players who were still in the league had come into the NBA ‘later’ into college.  (ie. the average age has been shifting downward). 

                •  Veterans is one thing.  Back then, veterans over 35 were considered ancient.  I’d have had no problem with Grunwald going out and getting a veteran or two around 30.  But when your front court’s average age is 37, how big is your window?

      • tonious35

         What stopped our growth:  Hakeem Olajuwan signing, and wasting all our 1st round draft picks on bullshit players who suck (Michael Bradely, and Chris Jeffries), and Lamond Murray.

        • sleepz

           That Bradley pick was a bad one. I believe they passed on Z-Bo that year which made no sense when projecting both players abilities. Bradley had hit his ceiling in college already.

    • Mediumcore

       How do the Raptor’s draft the best player available when there are no clear best players after Kyrie and D. Will? In a weak draft like this you draft based on need. And if you can’t get the SF which they need and was a position of dead weight for them last season then you flip that pick with an asset to get what you need.

      • Ghotte

        Disagree. You only draft based on need if you are a piece away from contending. Raptors need to draft by Best Player Available – especially with a 5th pick. 

        Think about it: We are pinning the franchise’s hopes on a 9th and 13th pick in the draft. Those were not “need” selections but BPA. For a 5th pick, you do your evaluations and pick the best one there. 

        Then have a shot of rum.

        • Nilanka15

          I think what Mediumcore was trying to say is that there won’t be a clear cut “best available player” at the 5th spot.  Instead, we’ll have 3-4 players who can all claim to be the best player available.  There is no separation between them.  So in order to make our decision easier, select a player based on positional need out of these 3-4 players.

          • Ghotte

            I understand but the scouting team obviously has a ranking system based on in-person, video and other evaluations. They will know who they think is the value pick at 5. If Kemba Walker is available at 5 and he’s the highest ranked player on their board they’ll pull the trigger. 

            Ed Davis wasn’t expected on being available at 13. Derozan at 9 was a good pickup. Both of these are examples of BPA. 

            Hoffa was a need pick which was (one) reason it imploded. Minnesota picking Rubio and Flynn were examples of more need-based choices and looked foolish at the time. 

        • barenakedman

          Picking the BPA is great in concept but in reality it is still only a matter of opinion. Ask 100 fans to list in order the top ten best players in this draft. Let’s make it easier. Who in order are the ten best players in the NBA?  

          • Ghotte

            of course it’s a matter of opinion. That’s why the scouting and management team get paid the bucks to make evaluations. Whether NBA, NFL or whatever, organizations can choose to use BPA or make selections based on need. 

            I’m willing to bet that BPA is more sound a practice than the other. 

        • tonious35

           Agree, if there is going to be a glut in a certain position after drafting talent, trades will have to be made on draft day or before the trade deadline.  Just don’t do what Minnesota did when they had to many point guards in 2009 (hint, it involved the words: “Ty Lawson”, and “donation”).

      • There’s generally one or two players that are better than the rest, especially in the lottery.  Not everyone may agree with you about it, but if the Raptors feel the best player available is a power forward, then they have to take him despite that being the strongest position on the roster.  

        Now if it is true, that you’ve got a choice between players where you don’t feel there is anyone better than the others, then you choose what is available.  

        I completely disagree with trading the pick, even though I’m not thrilled with the prospects at 5.  The reason being is that NO ONE is thrilled with the prospects at 5, so the value of that pick is very low.  You’d be much better off drafting someone with upside and hoping they turn out to be a steal, because what you get in return will most likely be 50 cents on the dollar.  

        • Mediumcore

           I’m not saying your opinion is wrong, but I disagree with the idea of drafting another PF or SG when we already have Ed and Demar in the roster and they are our starters of the future. It’s one thing if there are clear star players like a Blake Griffin on the board, but in this scenario there isn’t anyone that you see that potential in, so you may as well address one of your needs…which in my opinion is the SF spot…..
          Which leads me to why I think they should trade the pick. The way I see it the Raptors can’t afford to try to improve just their bench this off season, they have to make an attempt to improve their starting line up (Just my opinion but if you lose 60 games a significant moves is needed to improve). If they make a move for a starting Centre that means Bargnani is gone (cheers) ’cause they sure as hell ain’t bringing him off the bench and $10 million a year and we’re solid at PF (Barg’s playing SF is just stupid). If BC trades Ed or Amir so Barg’s can start at PF he’d have mutiny on his hands. That leaves the PG or SF spot. How moveable is Jose’s contract? Not easy and I’ll use your term that you are likely not going to get 50 cents on the dollar so why not keep him around for another year since he proved to be the only player able to create for others last season.  This leaves you with the SF position and the only player in the draft that can start in the NBA at the SF position is D. Will and unless you can move up in the draft to acquire him you have to make a trade for a starting quality SF. Since the 5th pick is one of our big assets right now it will have to be thrown in a trade to either move up in the draft or to acquire that starting SF. That’s my logic behind any off season moves the Raptors make …let it marinate. 

          •  I actually agree with a lot of your points, including keeping Calderon.  His presence doesn’t hurt the team, and you can’t get equal value for him, so unless an offer comes up that you can’t refuse (like saying using him to get Minnesota’s pick), then keep him.

            I also understand your argument about not needing any more bench players.  I just don’t think the pick is going to have enough value to get anything decent, and you actually have a better chance of picking a sleeper who ends up being good than trading the pick for a player someone doesn’t want.

            • Nilanka15

              The pick will probably hold more value AFTER the draft.
              It would be easier to target the needs of specific teams with a real player in our hands, rather than a nameless 5th pick.

            • Mediumcore

              Absolutely, there is no way the 5th pick in this draft (likely most drafts) can be traded on it’s own to get you a starting calibre player which is why you include it as part of a package. Some scenarios….
              Atlanta has the dilema of letting Jamal Crawford walk cause he’s asking for too much $$ in his next contract…would they maybe take our 6th man Barbosa who can provide the scoring punch Jamal currently does and let Jamal walk? Would they trade a fringe starter and solid defender like Marvin Williams for the 5th pick and Barbosa? (okay I’m not a huge fan of Marvins but it’s an example)…
              Clevland will likely pick Kyrie giving them one too many pg’s. Would they take our 5th pick and maybe cash for Ramon Session?..
              The Curry and Ellis project in Golden State hasn’t worked out thus far. Is there a trade possibility with Toronto that could pry Curry from them? Can our pick be used as part of that deal?

              I’d say there is a better chance of extracting something of value using the pick than hoping for sleeper.

              Only time will tell.

        • Zuluman

           the 5th pick is normally the best pick…1.2.3. is normally pure hype, agent manouvering and that kinda stuff the #5 pick are allstars
          2008Kevin LoveMemphisUCLA2007Jeff GreenBostonGeorgetown2006Shelden WilliamsAtlantaDuke2005Raymond FeltonCharlotteUNC2004 Devin HarrisWashingtonWisconsin2003Dwyane WadeMiamiMarquette2002Nikoloz TskitishviliDenverGeorgia2001Jason RichardsonGolden StateMichigan State2000Mike MillerOrlandoFlorida1999Jonathan BenderTorontoPicayune H.S.1998Vince CarterGolden StateNorth Carolina1997Tony BattieDenverTexas Tech1996Ray AllenMinnesotaConnecticut1995Kevin GarnettMinnesotaFarragut Academy H.S.1994Juwan HowardWashingtonMichigan1993Isaiah RiderMinnesotaUNLV1992LaPhonso EllisDenverNotre Dame1991Steve SmithMiamiMichigan State1990Kendall GillCharlotteIllinois1989J.R. ReidCharlotteNorth Carolina1988Mitch RichmondGolden StateKansas State1987Scottie PippenSeattleCentral Arkansas1986Kenny WalkerNew YorkKentucky1985Jon Koncak AtlantaSouthern Methodist1984Charles BarkleyPhiladelphiaAuburn1983Sidney GreenChicagoUNLV1982LaSalle ThompsonKansas CityTexas1981Danny VranesSeattleUtah1980James RayDenverJacksonville1979Sidney MoncriefMilwaukee

        • Brandon

          You’ve got it backwards. Time preference says that a team wanting a pick this year would be willing to give up a better pick next year, preferring to deal with immediate player resources to resources that won’t be available in the coming season.
          Next year’s draft is loaded, and this year’s is one of the worst ever. If they can get a first rounder next year for this pick they should do it.If they can’t trade the pick for a great, cheap, young player, or a pick next year, I’d draft the player most likely to develop into a perennial all-star, regardless of position.
          Then I’d trade all the rest of the players for ones that can lose 60 games without costing so much in the process.

          • There are two problems with that strategy. How do you know the pick is going to be better?   You could end up with a mid-first round pick, for all you know.  You can’t predict whether a team is going to improve itself over the summer and vastly improve their record.  Especially if they know that they won’t get a pick next year.  Secondly, EVERYONE knows next year’s draft is better, so I can’t see there being a lot of teams willing to give up their pick next year for one in, what you term, the “worst draft ever”.  Oh, I highly doubt that, by the way.  

            • Brandon

              They might be willing to trade a pick next year for one this year because of time preference. They might prefer a known player asset they can convert into a reasonably productive rotation player in the near term to an unknown pick a year hence.
              It shouldn’t matter much to Colangelo, who has no great players to build around anyway. And a mid-first-rounder next year is likely to yield a better player than a lottery pick this year. There are no all-stars in this draft. Barely any starters.

              • If it’s a “time preference”, why would they want a rookie?  If it’s a time preference, then they obviously are looking for a player who will make an immediate impact, and it would be much better to go out and trade for a veteran.  

                And how do you know the 16th pick next year is going to be better than the 5th pick this year?  And what if it’s not the 16th pick, but the 20th, or even 25th?  There’s not way you get a better chance of finding a good player at 25 next year than 5 this year.  And the problem is you’d have absolutely no idea where the pick will be.  

                Any team that has a “time preference” is going to want to win immediately, and that means they’ll be looking to try and get themselves in the best possible position this summer, which means they will most likely have a pretty decent record next season.

                Besides, if someone really wants to trade for a high pick this year, Minnesota is a much better target, and you won’t have to give up a pick next year for it.

                • Brandon

                  Time preference is an economics term: “time preference (or “discounting”) pertains to how large a premium a consumer places on enjoyment nearer in time over more remote enjoyment.”

                  I wouldn’t want the Raptors to have a high time preference, as Colangelo has had over the past 5 years — preferring in over-the-hill pricey players like Turkoglu, O’Neal et al. over young players like Hibbert. Stripping a team down to nothing and rebuilding it using lottery picks in deep drafts (OKC did it most recently) is what I’d like to see. This is a horrendous draft, so I’d prefer to skip it, even for a pick that might not be as high next year.

                • I understand the concept.  And I agree with your goal.  I just don’t believe how you want to get there is realistic in the least. I’ve got no problem with the Raptors trying to pick up a pick or two next year.  The problem is that EVERYONE knows next year’s draft is going to be deep, so it’s going to be difficult to get them.  I also don’t think trading the 5th pick in this draft is worth the risk of possibly ending up with a low first rounder next year.  This draft isn’t that bad and next year’s draft isn’t that good.  If you do find a possible lottery team willing to give up a pick next year, I don’t think they’re going to do it for a pick that not even you want.

    • slaw

      Sorry, the revisionist history can’t be allowed to stand. Early Vince Carter was not Carmelo Anthony. VC was a much better player than Anthony. Second year comparison: PER (23.4/VC – 16.7/CA)/WS (11.8/VC – 4.9/CA). Numbers aren’t even close. Anthony has had a longer run but at his best he isn’t within sniffing distance of VC at his best. The fact people forget how awesome VC was in 99-00 and 00-01 never ceases to amaze me.

      Also, Grunwald’s model would have been fine had McGrady not left. Carter/McGrady surrounded by vets would have been very, very good for years. Yeah, they only made it to the second round once but VC’s injury and McGrady bolting had more to do with that than organizational failure. The latter didn’t help but it was only a part of the problem.

      • mountio

        Agree completely. Vince was a stud the likes of which is rarely seen that early in a career. People think of the moppy, sulky end .. but when he was on (even playing decent d) .. he was great. And clutch? Whether it was beating his man off the dribble to dunk on him in a tied game with less than 10 seconds on the clock (I remember a few of these vividly) or shooting over the top .. I always had confidence hed pull it out.
        We had bad luck (Williams injury, McGrady bolting, Vince turning bitch as a result) and the odd iffy signing .. but the blueprint was there.
        btw .. its not like Carmelo is such a bad guy to be compared to .. having led his team to the playoffs the the last 4 or 5 years including deep runs to the confernce finals in a loaded western conference. I realize hes not an advanced stats freak, but the guy has had a pretty successful NBA career ..

      • I thought at the time that Vince was not the type of franchise player that historically could lead his team to a Championship.  The main reason is because he simply was never a good defensive player.  He was decent, but that’s it.  

        And while Vince certainly started off his career better than Carmelo, and his peak was better than Anthony, they did have fairly similar numbers and games.  

        And if McGrady had stayed, they would have been in better shape, but Grunwald still gave away youth for veterans with only a couple of good years left.  And he continued that strategy after McGrady left (Hakeem, for example).  I’m not saying that strategy was the only problem, but it certainly was a major one.  Vince’s injury only hurried it along a little.  I mean, how much longer were Oakley and Davis going to play at that same level, and they were a major reason for the Raptor’s success.

        • Theswirsky

          Vince wasn’t a bad defender.  When he decided to stop playing… well that changed. 

          There is a huge seperation between the last season and a half Vince, and everything prior to that.

          •  He wasn’t a bad defender, but he wasn’t good, either.  And that was at a time before Steve Nash made it okay for a guy to win MVP who wasn’t above average defensively.  

            • Theswirsky

              There is no shortage of players who are Franchise guys who don’t (and will never) win an MVP.

              •  Ya, but how many of those guys lead their team to the Finals, let alone a Championship.  I just never felt Vince had what it takes to do that.  Even when he was at his best.  I saw him more like a Dominique Wilkins.

                • Theswirsky

                   D.Wade and Dwight come to mind.

                  Chris Paul and Deron Williams I think can fit into the franchise player with no Finals appearance.  Nash on the other hand won twice (and deserved a 3rd) without every making it to the finals.  Garnett won the MVP 4 years (and a completely different system, style and team) before he saw the NBA finals.

                  I just don’t think its reasonable limiting a franchise player to a MVP.  Besides becoming a vote for “who’s in” in any given year, there is only 1… while there are multiple franchise players every year, and new ones arriving most years.

                  Dominique never had the range, passing ability or ball handling Vince did, (again… this is pre-“I quit” Vince.  After he was nothing like Dominique as his game turned into standing around the 3pt line jacking shots). 

                •  I shouldn’t have mentioned winning the MVP, because it really wasn’t part of my argument.  

                  Chris Paul and Deron Williams are still young.  Paul, especially, has the talent to lead his team to a Championship, if surrounded by the right players.  I just never felt Vince fell into that category.  

                • Bo4

                  I think that VC had the talent at one time. He just missed one shot in a crucial moment, and was never the same again. However, I also think that he never had the determination needed. Otherwise, that missed shot would’ve been motivation from then on.

                • Theswirsky

                  Vince’s #s during that playoff series (against what was considered one of the top defences in the league and the team that went on to the finals… Philadelphia):

                  Pts     30.5  
                  FG%   47.4%
                  3pt % 42.2%(2.5 made a game) 
                  FT%    85%ft (4.6 made a game)
                  Rbs     6
                  Asst.   5.5
                  Stls     1.8
                  Blks     2 (while playing SG no less)

                  (For the Bargnani boys so it makes more sense), only 1 game less than 20pts.. and wasn’t far off a triple double that game (16pt, 7 rebs, 9 assists)…. 5 games over 25 pts, 3 over 30 and a 50 pt game

                  You won’t often find those numbers over the course of a series by a player not named Lebron James, DWade, Michael Jordan, Larry Bird or Magic Johnson.  

                •  Ya, maybe I’m remembering things differently, I just clearly remember me questioning whether Vince was really the type of franchise player you could win a Championship with.  A lot of that had to do with defense.  At that time, pretty much all the elite players were also, at least, above average defenders.

                • Theswirsky

                  I can definetely understand if you questioned it after that post season as things definetely changed in short order. 

                • Theswirsky

                  thats fair… my bad for leading the discussion a bit astray there. 

                • Zuluman

                  u dont think the human highlight film could lead his team to a finals. if he didnt have to contend with the Larry bird Celtics. one of the best teams ever ??

  • Demar

    kawhi Leonard, brandon knight or enes kanter would be my choice.

  • Sam

    Do the Raptors have enough cap space to have a shot at signing Dalembert? I know he’s considered a head case. He might not even want to come here because of Rautins but I’m hard pressed to think of a better C whose available, other than Chandler who I doubt comes to Toronto, especially if he ends up in the Finals with Dirk this year.

    • Nilanka15

      If Dalembert is interested in Toronto, I would hope that Leo being a TV colour guy, would have nothing to do with Dalembert’s decision.

      • mountio

        Ill go one step further. I dont like Sam as a pick up at all (hes just NOT a good player .. its that simple .. and hes a head case on top of that). But – if it would mean we could some how get rid of Leo .. I could maybe get talked into it ..  

      • tonious35

         Just hoping if Dalembert joins, he “accidentally” “deflects” the ball to Leo’s face when he starts talking too much.

      • Pran

         you fool…dalembert is shit.like u.

        • Nilanka15

          You know who else is shit?  Bargnani you dumbass, infatuated, obsessed, man-crushing fanboy. 

          If you used two hands to type (instead of stroking yourself while watching Bargnani 3pt shooting highlights on YouTube), you’d remember to press the spacebar.

  • slaw

    There are a lot of unknowns in this draft, yet I read on these boards a lot of people who seem to already know everything there is to know about the lottery guys and how they are all terrible.

    Has anyone here watched any of the Euro bigs play in actual full 40 minute games against quality competition? If not, how in the world are you all experts on their ceilings? Knight played bascially half a year at Kentucky, yet, he apparently can never, ever learn to play PG at all. Really? Based on your review of 20 games at UK? Give me a break.

    Appealing to authority works sometimes but the track record of the so-called ‘draft experts’ is sketchy at best, awful at worst. I remain convinced that many of these mock draft analyses are simply repeating the standard meme rather than actual high-quality scouts honestly reviewing players.

    BC’s history in the first round is better than most GMs and there will be decent guys available at #5. I am fairly confident he will find someone there who can be productive.

    • Rpsfan95

       agree on the draft experts, its like none of them realize that we already have 7 power forwards

    • Ghotte

      When you try to project how a player will do of course it’s a crapshoot. But, when you look at video and see slow feet or limited athleticism (like Hoffa for instance) you don’t have to be an expert to see that the cards will be stacked against that player excelling in the league.  

      I’ve only seen a dozen or so prospects and it’s pretty clear there’s few (if any) elite prospects past the top 2 or 3. 

    • People seem to be confused about the mock drafts.  They rarely rank players based on how good they are, but are simply predictions about who is going to draft them.  And a lot of those guys make those predictions based on conversations with front office staff.

      And predicting who is going to draft which player is difficult, because sometimes a team drafts a player unexpectedly and throws everything for a loop.  Look at last year.  Golden State surprised every and took Ekpe Udoh, which at this point looks like a mistake, and the consequences were that Ed Davis, who most experts felt was a top 8 player, talent-wise, dropped to 13.  Projecting how good players will be is difficult, but we all simply use the information we have to come up with our opinions.  And the information is not only about them, but about players throughout the years.  I am one who has questioned whether Knight can run an offense, and that’s from watching him, reading trusted scouting reports, and knowing how similar players have faired over the years.  No one KNOWS whether Knight can be a real PG, but the evidence suggests he will struggle and the chances are not good he will.  And that’s what you have to go on.  

      • Bo4

        Well written, Tim W. Some people forget that the questions to be posed by BC have to be like, “Are we better off … 
        “… drafting Enes Kanter, OR offering Marc Gasol a contract (hoping the Griz decide not to match it)?” 
        “… trading up to draft Derrick Williams, or trading someone away to get André Iguodala?”
        “… drafting (Brandon Knight or Alec Burks or Jimmer Fredette), OR trading to get Ray Felton?”
        We can’t do all of it. We have to choose our best bet, and live with the consequences … or find a way to do more than one of the three. In the end we need to do all three, but we may not be able to do them all this summer.  The deciding factor has to be which option complements our core (Amir/Ed, DeMar/James & Jerryd) best, and the trade bait has to be Andrea/Leandro/José/TPE/MLE/FuturePicks, with the ballast being everyone else on the roster. 

        •  I’ve said it a few times, but I don’t envy Colangelo with the decisions he’s going to have to make this summer, especially in regards to the draft.  

          • Bo4

            Ooppss. I forgot to add the option to trade up to draft (Kyrie Irving or Kemba Walker). 

            • Nilanka15

              Kemba will more than likely be available at the 5th pick. 

              • Bo4

                Yes, Nilanka. I just read today’s http://www.nba.com/bobcats/11_mock_drafts.html update. Kemba at 5 would be a good pick, IMO.

                •  An undersized, ball dominating, shoot first PG?  No thanks.

                • Bo4

                  You might be right, Tim W. My current plan would be to trade the pick, Andrea, José, Leandro, the TPE, the MLE and a future pick away for André Iguodala & Ray Felton, AND then signing RFA Marc Gasol to an offer sheet. That produces a good rotation with our core 5.

                • You can’t trade the MLE.  

                  Gotta say, I’m not a fan of your plan.  A team of Felton, DeRozan, Iguodala, Davis and Gasol is good, but I don’t see that team ever going past the second round.  I’d rather just build through the draft for another year and pray that they can get a real franchise player next year.  Without one, you’re just another mediocre team.

                • Bo4

                  Start Ray, DeMar, André, AMIR & Marc. Sub Jerryd, James & ED. (DeMar & James would be the weaklinks, but they’re developing). Question 1: Who’re the franchise players in this year’s draft? Question 2: Can we trade up to get one? (BC & I can’t wait another year.) 

                •  Well, from the sounds of it, Colangelo can wait.  And that’s good because it’s doubtful there are any franchise players in this draft.  A few possible All-Stars.  Some good role players.  But no franchise players.  

                  And I’d rather wait that try and win with a roster whose future is mediocrity.  

                • Bo4

                  OK. Why not trade this year’s pick for an extra one next year, then? 

                • Because you have no idea where the pick is going to be next year, and the 5th pick this year is probably going to be better than the 20th pick next year.  Besides, why would a team want to trade their pick in a draft which is already considered to be very deep, for a pick in a historically weak draft?  

                •  Another reason is that there might not even be a season next year, so what’s the point of giving a draft pick next year just to get one this year if there might not even be a season.

                • Panchal_vicky13

                   So is D rose, Russel Westbrook, Brandon jenning, steph curry… so don’t give me that BS he plays PG for a reason u know

                • Rose is one of the best players in the entire league.  If Walker reaches that level, I’ll let him be a shoot first PG.  Oklahoma is at it’s best when Westbrook isn’t shooting first, but passing.  And thanks for proving my point about Curry and Jennings.  Golden State and Milwaukee aren’t exactly teams you’d aspire to.

  • Nilanka15

    “The poll on the left side of the screen says that the majority of Raptors fans would like to see the team draft a point guard, with the center a distant but notable priority.”
    To be fair, that poll was posted before the lottery, when most fans probably had dreams of Kyrie dancing in their heads.  If you re-posted the poll today, it might not end up so heavily skewed towards drafting a PG.

  • Mike

    the first decision should be about bismack..the next serge iblocka!!!   

    • Ghotte

      What does Bismack bring that Ed Davis doesn’t? They’re almost identical players in skillset 

      • bboyskinnylegs

         Bismack brings center size along with elite defensive potential. His wingspan is 7 inches longer than Ed’s, his standing reach is 3″ bigger, and he weighs 243lbs vs Ed’s 227… with a body fat% that is less than *half* of what Ed’s is. I really, really like the mobile, athletic interior D we’d have with Ed/Amir and Biyombo. 

        Here’s a video of him working out/preparing for the draft:

        And here’s an example of why I like his defensive potential, and think he can be a gritty, in-your-face nuisance on defense like a Noah/Garnett:

        Sticking to a guy on the perimeter and getting the deflection, staying with the guy as he goes to retrieve it and picking him up full court, and then rejecting him at the rim.
        I think he’s going to be one of the quickest bigs in the league, and the potential with his defense/rebounding/shotblocking would make a huge impact on our team’s outlook moving forward. 

        • Ghotte

          Bismack is undersized for a center at 6’9″ and has almost zero offense skill at this stage of his career. Granted, he can learn some moves but he’s a project. 

          He’s hasn’t even played against top tier talent as he was playing in the 2nd or 3rd division of the Spanish league. It’s one thing to dominate green high school all stars and another to play against men, let alone college allstars.   

          • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

             Just say no to Bismack!!!

          • bboyskinnylegs

            Bismack played at the senior level in the ACB at Fuenlabrada this year, that’s where he led the entire league in shotblocking and was 5th in the league in rebounding rate. This was not some 2nd rate division, he was playing against big teams like Barcelona and Real Madrid. That is very, very impressive for an 18-year old rookie in the ACB, which is a higher level of competition than NCAA ball, by far.
             The top of his head is 6’9″ off of the floor. That doesn’t mean he’s undersized for a C, because you don’t rebound and block shots with your head, you do it with your arms. He has an excellent 9’3″ standing reach, which is 4.5″ bigger than Noah’s, 4″ bigger than Horford’s, 3″ greater than Kwame, 2.5″ more than Monroe, 2″ greater than Nene, 1″ greater than Bargs, Chandler, Jefferson, Gortat, and Favors, 0.5″ greater than Kaman, Okafor, and Bogut, 0.5″ less than Dwight, and 1″ less than Oden. Many of these He weighs 243 lbs (with a very, very low 4.8% body fat). That’s  20+lbs more than Garnett, Camby, Chandler, and Noah when they entered the league, and more than Gortat, Mutombo, McGee, and Dwight when they entered the league, and within 10lbs or less of what Nene, Kaman, Bogut, DeAndre Jordan, Tim Duncan, Alonzo Mourning, Bargnani, Horford, and Favors weighed when they were drafted.With his length, strength, and quickness/athleticism, along with the defensive promise he’s already shown, this guy has the potential to be a gamechanger defensively. 

    • tonious35

       Bismack might of had a good showing at the Nike Summit, but I’d only take him because his name is pimpin’ good.

    • Balls of Steel

      Or the next Joey Dorsey!

  • Photoman

    I am not disappointed about getting #5, I would rather strike the #1,2 or even 3rd pick in NEXT year’s draft. BC needs to take the BPA and see how things work out with the CBA etc.

  • ak

    getting amare was a questionable move at best. he doesnt rebound nor does he defend.
    trading for carmelo was even worse. there is no way nyk sets an example of building a contender. surrendering all the sap space and depth for two offense oriented stars is the worst thing you can do.

    i never liked the city anyways so i am kind of glad they did all that. fucking morons

    • Nilanka15

      Amare doesn’t rebound??? 

      • Statement

        Amare does rebound, so does Carmelo,

        Both don’t play defense well though.  So much money invested in these two one-way players, but what can you expect from the Knicks.

        Their only hope is to open the coifers even more and get Chris Paul….a player ACTUALLY deserving of a max contract. 

        I could see it know, Paul goes to the Knicks, carries them (much like he is doing with NO now) and Carmelo gets all the credit in the headlines.


      • Bo4

        Facts: On blocks, rebounds, points & assists. both Amare & Carmelo both total & average/minute as starters in the NBA. What they don’t do is steal the ball. In that they are subs. 

        • ak

          never thought of them in terms of steals. that is an interesting point.

          melo is a great rebounder, can’t say this about amare. 8.2 per game is just not cutting it for max player at his position.

        •  Steals and blocks do not necessarily equal good defense.  Both Amare and Carmelo are below average defenders.

          • Bo4

            My problem here is, “So, what does equal good defense?”. Most of the answers I see are too subjective, and therefore unconvincing to me. Steals & blocks & minutes are numbers that cannot be argued. Although the subjectivity of those numbers can be argued, since they are league accumulated, they are more reliable than most other numbers … .

    • Bendit

      While I dont care about NY teams, NYC is one of the great cities of the world. You must either have had a bad experience or not found the right places/things to see or do. And yes, Amare rebounds pretty well. 

  • dribbles

    The thing about Vince was that he was the most exciting player in the league for a few seasons when he was with us. It’s much easier to tolerate mediocrity or rebuilding when you have a player like that or Blake G (DeMar isn’t there), or if you have a group of young players that bust their collective rumps, get better as they go and play a brand of reasonably exciting basketball.

    This team’s first and foremost priority, by a big ol’ country mile, should be learning how to play D. If Triano can’t coach it, find someone who can. If existing players are incapable, find ones that are. If you can use the draft pick to advance that goal somehow, do it. League-worst D year after year makes it painful to watch these guys. Make it stop for the love of god.

    Also, how does Tyreke Evans fit next to DeMar? Huh? I’d be more interested in seeing if Batum can be had from the Blazers since they acquired Wallace. He’s young, can defend and hit the 3.

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

    Btw- it’s not a- Rebuild, anymore but a- Winning Plan, as per Peddie. 

    Rap’s need a tough wing defender & Kawhi Leonard may be the BPA as well at #5!!

    Then sign Sammy D is the off season- whenever that may be!

    Trade Barg’s & Barbosa for Felton & Chandler(S&T) str8 up as soon as Barg’s BYC tag expires on June 30th or when lockout ends. Denver could pair fellow country men Gallinari & Bargnani plus Barbosa & Nene. Maybe even throw in Alabi ($800,000) since Masai Uriji was high on him when he was the Rap’s Assistant GM.

    Trade Calderon to Minny (to mentor Ricky Rubio) for Ridnour & Nikola Pekovic- works in the ESPN trade checker.

    Dalembert Pekovic

    Davis AJohnson Dorsey

    Chandler JJohnson Leonard

    DeRozan Weems

    Felton Ridnour Bayless

    • Nilanka15

      I like the Felton/Chandler idea.

      I’ve never even heard of Pekovic.  Are you sure he didn’t star in Grand Theft Auto IV?

      Not sure if I like the idea of using the 5th pick on a player pencilled as a 3rd stringer.  I would much rather find a player who can contribute this season.

      Don’t you hate Weems?  With Ridnour backing up Felton, Bayless would probably be better suited to backup DeRozan.  Bayless is too good to be a 3rd stringer. 

      • sleepz

         Pekovic was ironically the dude KILLING Bargnani in last summer’s World Championship (or was it Olympics?) qualifiers.

        He’s short but has game/

        • Theswirsky

          thats not ironic.

          That just the reality of Bargnani defending a player.

      • sleepz

         Pekovic was ironically the dude KILLING Bargnani in last summer’s World Championship (or was it Olympics?) qualifiers.

        He’s short but has game/

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

        Felton/Chandler would be nice additions.

        Pekovic is a rugged interior big man both Amir & Ed would welcome him with open arms trust.

        I don’t think that anyone the Rap’s draft at #5 will be a regular rotation player this season- barring injuries, especially if BC makes some trades and/or acquires some free agents before training camp. 

        I like Money Weems (when healthy) over Bayless as the back up sg in that scenario.

        As well, Kleiza would be an amnesty buy out.lol

    • Raptor4Ever

      Barb+AB+ Alabi for Chandler and felton works very well and I think Nuggets will do it. However, the question is with Nene being a FA, can they afford doing this ? Can the TPE be used here as well ?

      As far as Calderon to Minny, I don’t think it is very realistic. Minny has many more options in that regard and for some reason, I can see them doing a trade with Lakers or San Antonio  and getting some proven Vet to lead their young players.

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

        I can see a potential off season trade with Denver for some reason.

        The CB TPE (9 million) could potentially be used to acqiure Felton (7mil) and/or Chandler who is a free agent but BC has said in the media that the Rap’s most likely won’t use it.

        Kahn is known for going against the grain so there is no telling what lengths he wil go to in order to make Rubio feel comfortable in Minny hopefully that will include acquiring Calderon in some capacity. 

        Time will tell.

    • points

      i think you made mistake you have chucky up there joey g 2.1 

  • Raptor4Ever

     What is our REAL chance of Trading a guy like:
     Amir Johnson + our fifth pick to Minnesota for their number 2 pick It seems like Kanter has impressed alot of people today and I am warming up to the idea of adding him to Raptors if he continues his impressive work outs. 

    •  No way I’d trade Amir + the 5th pick for the 2nd pick.  That’s a horrible trade for the Raptors.  

      • Raptor4Ever

        It all depends on how good Kanter is and if he shows in the next few weeks that he can be a solid Starting center in NBA.

        Lets face it, our future PF is Davis. He is more talented and younger than Amir and Amir has a ceiling of being a solid back up PF in this league.

        With Kanter, Davis and DD, you have 3 of your future starters already in the 2nd year of your rebuild.

        Moving AB to the bench as the 6th man, will give us that scoring punch that every good team has off the bench.

        Then we have to focus on PG + SF for the next few days and building the bench.

        In my book, this is a great move if Kanter shows he is capable and if Minny agrees to this deal.

        Bye Bye Ammmiiirrrrrrr…….

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

          What rebuild?

          It’s now- The Winning Plan- where have you been at? 

          • Raptor4Ever

            LOL, I know what you mean 😉 I am just repeating the company line of his fan boys about the rebuild here 😉

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2 Go!!!

              No worries just want to make sure that we are all up to date on the latest BC pr Raptors related media spin.lol

        • Mediumcore

          Actually I can’t see Minny giving up the 2nd pick for Amir and our 5th. Amir is a PF and they already have K. Love to fill that role. It doesn’t make sense for them to give up a potential starter for a back up player and what will likely be another back up player in the 5th pick. 

          • Raptor4Ever

            Love is an ALL STAR PF in this league while Amir is solid bench player at best. Minny is NOT getting Amir to replace Love or start him. They will get Amir to bring him off the bench and as Amir fan boys have been saying over and over, He does have a reasonable contract for that role. So your argument does not make any sense. 

            Minny will get a solid bench player, something that every good team needs and a fifth pick than can land them another solid player for their bench. 

            It actually makes perfect sense.

            • Mediumcore

              So you can see them giving up a starting SF in Williams for Amir who will come off the bench and for the 5th pick that will likely also be a player that comes off the bench? I don’t see why Minny would give up a starting SF for 2 bench players especially when they’ve been in the lottery forever. This is the highest pick they’ve had in years so why would they give up a potential all star for 2 bench players? 

              Think about it in terms of the Raptors. If we had the 2nd pick would you give it up to acquire a back up SG to come off the bench and give Derozan some rest along with another player that will likely also come off the bench? Or do you use that 2nd pick on a starting calibre player? Neither Minny nor Toronto are good enough to be focusing on bench players. We both need our home run players first.

              • Raptor4Ever

                They have their starting SF in Beasely which I think they have been quite happy with !!! So then, what is the next best thing, get two solid bench player ( assuming that they consider Amir Solid).

                That being said, you might be right and they may not give us their 2nd pick with just Amir and we may have to package Amir with James Johnson or Bayless or even a 2nd round pick in the future draft or …. 

                All I am saying is that we should do our best to get Kanter if he continues to impress for the next month and giving up Calderon  or AB will not do it for us.

        • Nilanka15

          Trading Amir only makes sense if Bargnani isn’t shopped.  But I highly doubt Bargnani will finish the season in Toronto. 

          • Theswirsky

            Disagree.  Not shopping Bargnani doesn’t make sense…. thereby trading Amir doesn’t make sense. 

            • Didn’t you actually agree with what he said?

        • Ed Davis is definitely the PF of the future for Toronto, but Amir is a GREAT front court bench guy with a reasonable contract.  When the Raptors have other tradable assets that make much more sense, like Bargnani, Barbosa and Calderon, it doesn’t make sense to trade a guy who could be a big part of the team’s future.

          • Raptor4Ever

            You are correct regarding Amir’s value and this is why it makes him a perfect trading chip. I don’t see any value in Calderon and I think Raptors need to actually give something else as well to unload his huge contract and he can not be used as a trading chip. 

            There are alot of question with Barbosa in terms of his health and … I also think his contract, although expiring is too large for us consider him a trade chips. A proof for this can be seen in the lack of interest around the league at the trade deadline this season.

            I also don’t see Minny be interested in AB and his contract. AB’s reputation took a huge hit this season when it comes to defense and … I can not see how Minny will used him and … and why Minny will tie themself up 10 million when they have all these young players who they need to sign soon under the new CBA and … 

            It is fact to get talent and real value in NBA, you need to give back Talent and value. The Only players in Toronto that really have value these days are Amir, DD and Ed. From the 3, I am only willing to part with Amir.

            You are again correct, we will loose a great good bench player but it can net us our FUTURE CENTER , a REAL Center, something that Toronto did not have for a long time.

            •  When building a team, you try and keep the players who you can foresee being good fits on a contending team.  Amir fits that description.  He’s the type of player contending teams want to have.  And he’s only 23, so he’s young enough that you can see him as part of the long term future of the team.

              Calderon, I think the Raptors can and should keep, unless they get a good offer for him.  He’s a valuable player who helps the team win.  I’m not against trading him, but only if it helps the team in the long term.

              Barbosa would most definitely have trade value, if healthy.  Expiring contracts unto themselves don’t have much trade value.  But Barbosa is a valuable player with or without a contract.  

              As for Bargnani, yes his value took a hit, but I think he’s still got value.  He’s young, is 7 feet and can score.  There should be at least a few teams that will want to gamble on his potential, figuring a change of scenery will help.  There are certainly a lot of Raptor fans that feel that way, and they’ve seen a lot more of Bargnani than other teams have.

              And the fact is that I think Amir is too much to give up to move up.  I don’t think they NEED to give up that much, quite frankly.  

  • pran

    whoever is using my name is a coward, I’d appreciate if raptors republic would remove all the posts under my name. bargnani supporters I didn’t think you could sink to a new low, Italians are slime in my opinion/end rant

  • FAQ

    It will take a lot more than draft pick rookies to lift this team into contention within the next several seasons.  If you want the Raps to play decent defence, you need veteran player because rookies are too green.

    If the Raptors ever get into the playoffs again, all the current players will no longer be on the roster … believe it.

    • Nilanka15

      You’ve changed man.  You used to be about creative, awe-inspiring, annoying posts.  I miss those days…

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2 Go!!!

      You need talent be it young, old or inbetween- point blank.

      Then you need a coach who will implement a defensive mentality and hold all the players accountable on the defensive end not just talk the talk but walk the walk.

  • Doug Smith’s a douche

    i have this gut feeling it will be kemba walker or enes kanter.  all these names like leonard and biyombo seem like real reaches at this point.  and the raps cannot afford to reach/gamble with this pick.

    it may be harder to fill the centre position and kanter may, and i mean MAY have more upside than walker.  but, i think walker may have proven with his tournament performance that he has the chance of being a real star in the league.  he has the heart of a lion and will likely contribute right away.  i think people will see his workouts and realise he was the ncaa tourney star for a reason.  he is this good.  and i dont think BC can afford to draft someone who is a project.

    however, if a project is in the offing, i am intrigued by alec burks and the possibilty of moving DDR to SF. a longshot, but burks can fill it.

    denver seems a real likely trading partner with an ex-rap running the show and the amount of depth they have at multiple positions.  raps fans just may have to accept a small return on bargs.

    as for tyreke evans?  multiple DUIs ought preclude him from any real consideration.  i wouldnt touch this guy. dont care how good he is.  he is a potential vin baker, or a shawn kemp without all the babies.

    one last comment.  if the raps could get some perimeter shooting a couple of guys who can consistently hit threes, i think our probs at centre are minimzed.  we need a dell curry type off the bench and a starter on the wing who can drop threes.

    it is unreasonable to expect BC to find a SF a Centre and PG, all upgrades in one summer, but i think if can fill two of those spots u have a real shot at a playoff spot.



    • Juicey

      Shawn Kemp was an all-star that lead his team to an NBA finals appearance.  A Shawn Kemp talent is probably more than what we are getting out of this draft.

      Plus, Shawn Kemp without the babies is like Certs without the Retsin. 

  • grL

    OT In NBA2k11 Association Mode  I have made some Trades to get First Pics from Minesota, Bobcats and GSW in two years in row. I’ve got 12/13 seasson 3 good players from Daraft 11/12 and 12/13 and I still’ve got Pic from Bobcats. Rookies are generated but it’s not the point 😀

    The point is:
    Raptors getting better 😀
    It works 😀
    Now it’s your turn Bryan 😀

  • Nilanka15

    This just in: Kanter apparently was a no-show for his scheduled interviews with the Jazz, Raptors and Bucks today at the pre-draft combine in Chicago.  Unless there was a misunderstanding, it would seem like Kanter wants no part of playing in Toronto.  That would make our decision process just a tad less cloudy. 

    • Raptor4Ever

      It must have been a mixed up. I can not see Kanter saying No to the Jazz. 

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2 Go!!!

      BC can really attract talent- huh? 

      Rookies, in a weak draft, ain’t even checking for BC.lmfao

      • Raptor4Ever

        LOL, apparently, Kanter wants to play for Washington Wizards and wants nothing to do with us !!!


         Thank you BC for getting respect for our team

      • Nilanka15

        Yes, it’s BC’s fault that Canada is synonymous with the North Pole to ignorant teenage basketball players.  Well played.

        • Raptor4Ever

          I thought one of the main reasons to go after high profile GM and pay him 3 million a year was that he create a winning team here and bring creditability to this franchise. It was so that despite all the negative misconceptions about Toronto, the New well known GM make a team here that players who want to win , crave to play here.

          Or that the well known GM have a clear action plan and does not switch personnel, coaches and player every season so other players in the league see the stability in the franchise and the bright future of the team and WANT to play here.

          But then I might be wrong the the purpose of bringing this GM was to loose our star player for next to nothing, have a 22 win season after 5 years, scrap our team after every season and start a retool and then finally rebuild. OOOPPSSS, my bad, I forgot that was BC’s Job.

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

    Every Rap’s fan and/or BC supporter should read this here:


    @ Nilanka

    No one is checking for BC his star has been faded yet he was just re-upped him for 2 more years.

     Turk most likely  got in his fellow countryman’s- Kanter, ear and told him how funnystyle the Rap’s operate under BC & Jay thus he didn’t even respect BC enough to talk to him.lmfao

    BC is full of Bull Chit media spins that alot of folks just suck up like a milkshake- wake up!!

    • Theswirsky

      hahaha…. Khandor…. yeah that should wake them up to a bunch of nonesense.