Big Board 1.0 covered the tiers. Today Tim Chisholm from TSN.ca joins me to help slot players into those tiers as we discuss some of the guys mentioned in his latest column. Come the fifth pick and a point guard on the board, the debate will surely come down to Kemba Walker versus Brandon Knight. We cover the strengths and weaknesses of both players, and ask the question that regardless of their NBA projection, which one is a better fit for the Raptors, and which suits DeMar DeRozan as a sidekick. As we find out, the player with the higher upside may not be the best pick for the Raptors given their circumstance and the short nature of Colangelo’s contract.

The length of Colangelo’s contract comes up again when discussing drafting prospects (with buyout clauses!) such as Jonas Valanciunas. Tim goes over the situation with Valanciunas and why the Raptors might want to avoid a player who, despite having a desirable work-ethic and inside presence, hasn’t wowed in his domestic league. The alternative of Kawhi Leonard is analyzed but caution to the wind is thrown as we draw parallels with players such as Sonny Weems and Joey Graham. The selection is looked at in the context of the Raptors’ severe need for three-point shooting.

The curious case of Bismack Biyombo is covered with a comparison drawn to Serge Ibaka, and the question is asked: If Biyombo turned out to be as good as Serge Ibaka, would he be worth the fifth pick? The consensus appears to be that the ROI on a pick this high needs to be something better, weak draft or not.

Grab the iTunes feed or the plain old feed. You can also download the file (18:42, 19MB). Or just listen below:

  • dribbles

    I can’t listen at work but the conclusion you draw on Ibaka is nuts, if
    that’s an accurate description. The guy is 21 years old, so how do you
    determine the return on investment when he keeps getting better and is
    already pretty damn good? I think the Raps would be pretty lucky if they
    found a player that turns out to be as good as Ibaka.

    • Marr

      You need to listen to the pod cast before posting what you just Did :)

    • Seto

      true

  • Nilanka15

    According to the Hoops Report:

    “The Toronto Raptors took Brandon Knight out to dinner, rather than just interview him at the hotel during the Chicago Combine]. A source said the Raptors are very interested in drafting Knight at No. 5 to replace Jose Calderon as their franchise point guard.”

    • John

      Good Luck Trading Jose unless we are taking a bad contract like Diaw back 

      • Nilanka15

        Drafting a PG doesn’t mean Calderon has to be traded.  He can still be a servicable backup and mentor.

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

          Jose as a back up that’s due 20 million over the next 2 years? lol

           Jose is no mentor (unless it’s Rubio)- he wants to start as he has stated over and over in teh media. Plus Jose leadership skills are like his jumper- nada.

          @ John

          I’d take back Diaw in exchange for Jose str8 up in a 1 on 1 deal.

          I still hold out hope that the Rap’s will make a trade for Felton or Lawson as I hate rookie pg’s plus Knight (or Walker) is no better than  Bayless and isn’t guaranteed to be better than Bayless in the future.

          • sleepz

            Bayless isn’t that good to begin with. Any future with Bayless in it is not a promising one to me. I respect his drive and attitude but the dude is not a 1.

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

              Bayless is what he is until given a legit chance to start at the point for the Rap’s. 

              Also, when David Amber interviewed Bayless and referred to him as being a combo guard Bayless corrected him and advised David that he is a pg and not a combo guard.

              As well, if BC via Jay would have started Bayless after the All Star break instead of continuing to start Jose (even when injured) we might have a better grasp on his overall skill level over a larger sample of games but we are left with as many question about JB’s game as when BC acquired him with a portion of the CB TPE.

              • sleepz

                What is he? Becasue he suggested to Amber that he was a 1 is good and all but i’d rather see it in his play than his talk.

                Some players need the right opportunity to thrive. After seeing him up close and personal I fully understand why both Portland and N.O’s traded him.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

                  He didn’t suggest it, it stated it as fact- comprehend?
                   
                  Did you not watch the interview on RapsTV?
                   
                  How many games did Bayless get to play as the Rap’s pg starter last season in the TDot during the propagandized rebuild?

                  BC traded for him not I.

                   I liked JJack more than Bayless from the jump.

                • The Rub

                  haha oh he stated as a fact huh, well then end of discussion.  So just to be clear, Bayless is a 1, Vince Carter is not a dunker, Jerry Stackhouse is better than Michael Jordan and Charles Barkley is not a role model.

                  Got it.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

                  Stay stuck on stupid if you wish, buddy- free will. lol

              • sleepz

                What is he? Becasue he suggested to Amber that he was a 1 is good and all but i’d rather see it in his play than his talk.

                Some players need the right opportunity to thrive. After seeing him up close and personal I fully understand why both Portland and N.O’s traded him.

              • sleepz

                What is he? Becasue he suggested to Amber that he was a 1 is good and all but i’d rather see it in his play than his talk.

                Some players need the right opportunity to thrive. After seeing him up close and personal I fully understand why both Portland and N.O’s traded him.

          • Nilanka15

            Nobody suggested that Calderon’s contract is worthy of a backup role.  My post was simply stating that if Calderon is as untradeable as John implied, he can still serve a purpose on our roster.

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

              He’s tradeable it just all depends on what you expect in return.

              Jose on the Raptors bench would kill BC’s propagated Winning Plan, Rebuild or whatever he’s calling the Raptors current basketball situation nowadays.

        • Raptor4Ever

          Fully agreed. Then we need to move either Bayless or Barbosa.
          I was trying to find information on Rajan Rondo’s wing span versus Walker but I was not able to find any. Can someone look into that.

  • Lakonomy

    Hey nice job Phdsteve!

    Content was great, as always, plus you really improved the sound quality and I like the short intro music.

  • Flyfresh416

    I agree with dribbles.  If we can get a player with that upside, it’s another steal.  If we can agree that the Raps need to improve in all the slots, on our roster, then if a guy like Biyombo is available, we draft him and let go of, sadly enough, Evans and Alabi, maybe even Ajinca.

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

      Alabi & Ajinca should both be let go anyways.

      And Reggie should only be brought back at the vet minumum if he understands (accepts) his role as the 3rd roster PF behind Amir & Ed.

      Biyombo has bust written all over him plus how old is he again? He looks to be around 22-23 to me not 18 as advertised.

      • The Rub

        You can’t eyeball black people’s age, 30 Rock taught us that.  LeBron looked like he was 35 when he was drafted, Greg Oden looked like Bill Russell’s brother.

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

          I am of African descent.

          Btw- I don’t watch 30 Rock starring that hollyweird sellout step ‘n fetch it Tracey Morgan.

  • sleepz

    I’ll comment on the bigboard later but just wanted to address something completly off topic.
     
    Portland fired Cho yesterday. First thing that comes to mind is that Pritchard was probably not the problem and Allen was most likely the culprit. This hurts a little cause we most likely passed on pursuing a better option in him and resigning Colangelo as Raps GM.
     
    2nd thing is Portland obviously has no problem going to the draft without a GM in place which was something Raps were loathe to do. The Raptors in an effort to retain ‘continuity and stability’ kept the current staff in place and missed the boat. You don’t continue with 60 loss seasons, no hint of playoffs or significant development the past 3 years. We’re all watching the playoffs and it’s clear that you get to this point with talent, defence and offensive execution, none of which the Raptors have much of. It was time for a change and we continued with the path to nowhere that we’re currently on.

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

      The Blazers have a professionally structured organization unlike the Rap’s and just because the GM is gone it doesn’t meant that they don’t have  ability to analyze, draft talent and/or make trades.
       
      In the TDot BC is both the President & GM of Raptors basketball operations. The Rap’s are full of BC yes men ie BC Consensus.
       
      What BC’s re-signing brings with it is the stability of stagnation and his new- Winning Plan, inwhich the Rap’s won’t be winning many games in the near future as is.
       
      There is very little accountability for BC who just PR media spins his way out of situations like a politician politicking (lying)- image over reality ie downplaying the getting the 5th pick instead of staying at 3 or moving up in the Lottery with facetious salary cap savings ($600,000) propaganda.
       
      If the Rap’s were picking 3rd they would get first option at selecting Knight, Walker or Kanter if they really wanted them and wouldn’t have to wait on other teams ahead of them at 3 & 4  to decide for them.

      • Beaverboi

        Is BC’s ‘winning’ plan anything like Carlie Sheen’s???

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

          I couldn’t tell you as BC has released any particulars related to his new ‘Winning Plan’ for Raptors basketball.

          Why not print BC’s new “Winning Plan” in the media as so all Raptor fans can read it?

          My guess is that he’ll just make it up as he goes ahead with future player transactions in the TDot.

          • Nilanka15

            Hahahaha!  Yeah, let’s make the plan transparent for EVERYONE to see.  That’ll make it easier to build a team [sarcasm]. 
             
            “Hey Utah and Cleveland, I REEEEALLY want to draft Kanter with my 5th pick, so please don’t take him, ok?  I’m desperate to trade Bargnani and Calderon, so that should bring in some GREAT offers.  And I’m willing to sell my house plus the TPE to nab Rudy Gay from Memphis.  I hope no other team tries to one-up me in any of these scenarios now that I’ve made my plan visible to BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!”
             
            Why would anyone show their cards pre-flop?  Seriously man, your hatred for Colangelo has taken over your ability to think logically.

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

              You have no idea what BC’s new ‘Winning Plan’ that Peddie spoke of is do you? Is it top secret CIA, FBI material?lol

              I guess you’ll just suck up whatever future moves BC makes as part of his new ‘Winning Plan’ until further notice from BC.lmfao

              Is BC:

              Bringing in a proven GM to run the show like Pritchard or Mullin? 

              Keeping Gheradini, replacing Gheradini as Euro talent expert?

              Replacing Masai Uriji’s vacated Assistant GM position?

              Keeping Bargnani, trading Bargnani?

              Keeping Jose, trading Jose?

              Re-signing Weems, Dorsey, Wright & Evans?

              Bringing back Ajinca?

              Keeping Alabi?

              Keeping the 2011 draft pick, trading the 2011 draft pick for experienced NBA talent?

              Hiring a new head coach, assistant coaches?

              Replacing Jim Kelly as Director of Scouting?

              Please, advise me to the particulars of BC’s new hyped  up -‘Winning Plan’.

              • Nilanka15

                You’re missing the point.  We, as fans, aren’t supposed to know what Colangelo’s thinking.  If we did, it would seriously compromise his ability to actually follow his plan (whatever it may be).

                When was the last time a GM (in any sport) publicly said what he plans to do with every single member of his organization in specific detail?

                Side note: This “winning plan” idea was a Richard Peddie coined term, not Colangelo.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

                  You sound like you’re seriously stuck on stupid- it’s not top secret material we are tlaking about here it’s building a basketball team- recognize game or remain mentally lame.lmfao

                  Paying, supporting fans have a right to know what is going on within Raptors basketball especially after the past 3 years of turmoil, deception & stagnation under BC.

                  Peddie coined the term after saying that BC presented the board with a new ‘Winning Plan’- in relation to BC’s re-signing a 2 year deal with a Team option on a 3rd year.

                  Well what is that new ‘Winning Plan’ that BC explained plan in detail?

                  No wonder BC constantly gets over on alot of Raptors fans as they continue to mistake BC’s piss as rainwater and his shit as steak when in reality his piss is piss and his shit is shit.

                  I see BC, staying on as President and/or moving up into the new ownership’s Board, hiring a full time GM as to insulate himself from being fired which almost happened this off season as he can lay any blame on the potential new GM if the Rap’s new ‘Winning Plan’ doesn’t actually include much winning of games in the near future.

                  Critical thinkning is a must no mater whom you trust as when the blind follow the blind they usually fall off- stand up  for something or fall for anything.

  • c_bcm

    On a completely different note. Has anyone accumulated a list or a library of Smitch quotes?

    • arsenalist

      I’m the one who edits these, I just YouTubed that, wish I had a collection.

  • John

    Is Serge Ibaka much better than Amir Johnson now ??

  • Sonny

    Rajan Rondo is listed at 6’1″ , Is this with shoes or without?

    http://www.nba.com/playerfile/rajon_rondo/index.html

    Does this mean Walker is the same height as Rondo ?

    Please do not talk about Bayless as the future PG. Being a PG is more than drive and kick to open shooter.

    • sleepz

      +1

      Not only that but the ‘kick’ is the last resort for Jerryd. I am not comparing the 2 because they are at different talent levels but Bayless too often reminds me of the ‘bad’ Russel Westbrook and not enough of the ‘good’  Westbrook.

    • sleepz

      +1

      Not only that but the ‘kick’ is the last resort for Jerryd. I am not comparing the 2 because they are at different talent levels but Bayless too often reminds me of the ‘bad’ Russel Westbrook and not enough of the ‘good’  Westbrook.

    • mountio

      I agree. I wish we could get some real answers here. I watched Kemba play all year and either my eyes are failing me, he has really tall teammates (ie taller than they are listed at) or something else is going on .. but he doesnt look anywhere near as tall as Rondo or others. Note that Rondo has long arms, so they help him as a defender .. but still ..

    • arsenalist

      Yes, they’re the same.  Rondo was never measured in the 2006 NBA combine because he wasn’t there, so I don’t have an official comparison.  NBA heights are always measured in shoes.  Generally speaking, the shoes add 1.5-1.75 inches.

      http://raptorsrepublic.com/static/draftcombinemeasurements2011.html

      • Raptor4Ever

        Thanks Arsenalist
        Do you we have any data on their Wing span as well ? If Kemba has the same size of Rondo, then I be quite happy with him.

        • Bendit

          Afraid RR is a bit of a freak there. He measures about 6’9 while Walker is 6’3

  • Rasul

    DD no defense ??!!! 
    What are we really going to do about this ? When should we really be alarmed about this ? Do we have to wait 5 years and do a AB and realize that DD will never become a good defender ? 

    If DD is one of the main rebuilding blocks of our future, can we afford  his bad defense ? 

    Don’t give me the position difference between DD and AB excuse, we need a good defender at 2 if we want to compete.

    • Sam

      +1

      Next year is pretty crucial for DD, no? If he still sucks defensively and hasn’t developed an ok 3-pointer, how is he a building block?

      • Sam

        Please delete 3 of these 4. Not sure how that happened.

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

        DD will defend more consistently if coached plus held accountable but Jay aka Mr No Accountability is the Rap’s current head coach and unless BC makes a change will be the Rap’s head coach next season as well.

        If AB got 5 years to show & prove then DD deserves the same under BC from fans- right, I mean DD was drafted 9th overall not 1st overall?lol

        • Raptor4Ever

          I agree. This is what I have been saying about AB as well. AB is a weak team defender and … but he needs to be coached right and be held accountable. This is really missing.
          Sam: Fully agree. DD’s defense should be really evaluated next year. He needs to come in bigger, stronger and much more eager to SHUT his man down in defensive end and make a statement or it will be a mistake to consider him a real building Block.

        • Guestwho

          Exactly, well said, it’s the coach. Also true–DD was drafted 9th overall and is not on a massive contract like the joke AB.

    • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

      We have seen improvement in his defense, and that’s the main thing.  He’s still a below average defender, but he’s much better than he was as a rookie, and improved as the season went on.  If he isn’t, at least, a decent one by the end of next season THEN I think it’s time to question his future with the team.

      • Nilanka15

        Some of his ability to defend will depend on off-season strength gains.  If DeRozan can add some muscle, it would help him fight through screens, box-out, and hold his position when guarding the post.

        The other factor would be NOT having a care bear as a head coach.

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

        Yet, Barg’s gets a 5 year pass?

        Look who is coaching the team- Jay, as the Rap’s have been the worst defensive team in the NBA 2 years running it’s not all on DD it’s the whole team starting with the 2 longest tenured Raptors Jose & Bargnani who lead by example and have thrived as starters under Jay’s no accountability era.

        • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

          Bargnani didn’t get a 5 year pass from me.  I don’t think anyone should.

          • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!

            Barg’s, who got Sam fired, got one from the man in charge- BC, the same night he was drafted BC said that Barg’s would be a 5 year project.

            • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

              There’s a difference between a player being a 5 year project and getting a pass on his bad defense for 5 years.  

              • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                Not in relation to BC & Bargnani in the TDot.

  • slaw

    Just one question: has Chisolm ever watched Vesely, Valancunias, Kanter or Biyombo play in a competitive, actual 40 minute game? Not highlights or snippets but the entire game. Preferably more than one.

    At least phdsteve claims to have spoken to international scouts (though he doesn’t name them). I just have a real hard time taking this seriously when there are about 25 posters on the forums that could spew the exact same stuff Chisolm does here. This isn’t to blast Chisolm cause I enjoy his column but there are far too many writers claiming to be draft experts who know nothing more than the average fan. They should at least disclose that and deliver their opinions with a little more humility.

    • mountio

      Listen, Im not defending Chisholm or any NBA writer in particular .. but this is their job. I would hope they have a little more insight / have watched more tape of these guys than you and I who have real jobs and flip through this stuff in our free time. Does that mean he’s globetrotting day after day scouting the Euro leagues in person? Of course not .. but it doesnt mean I dont respect his opinion and add it to whatever I read from Chad Ford, Simmons, Draftexpress, this site (including posters) and others to form my own view …

    • Phdsteve

      Tim is an excellent reporter who watches a ton of tape.  Most guys, even if it is their job, dont actually go overseas to watch Euro prospects in action.

      As for my contacts, I dont feel the need to name them- but fyi, just listen to podcast #99 with international scout: Chris Denker.

      http://raptorsrepublic.com/2011/03/22/rapcast-99-the-doctor-is-in-draft-talk-with-netscouts-chris-denker/

  • Sam Holako

    Love the Sam Mitchell sound bite. Thanks for getting Tim on the show, I’m a really big fan of his.

  • Rpsfan95

    wow, the Bargs comments they just showed on TSN are hilarious, can’t wait for tomorrow’s post, looks like the Bargs era might end sooner than later

    • Tim

      Can’t Wait for next season when AB is town and torches Raptors for 30 points and dunks on the head of Amir Johnson :) :) :)
      Mark my words for it. 

      Raptors without AB will Suck on defense and rebound again next year and will finish on the bottom 3.

      • Rpsfan95

        yeah im sure theres tons of teams that want that fat slug to take 30 shots a game

        • Raptorfan

          LOL, Just Wait and See. The other teams will get him so cheap now that everyone and their DOGs know that AB wants nothing to do with Toronto :) :) Plus, he does not to take 30 shot, 18 will be enough for him , just the same amount that he took in Toronto. Great Work BC, trying to feed the blood thirsty Raptor fans.

          Last Year, it was Bosh who was incompetent and awful player and a pedophile who was killing puppies and now look at him, Playing in Eastern Conference, scoring 34 pts in one game and … AB deserve better just like Bosh did. 

          • Rpsfan95

            change your name to Bargfan then

  • Borg

    Jonas Valanciunas is rock solid, too bad we wont pick him for the wrong reasons.

  • SportTownTO

    Great Analysis by meductic on the RR forum in the middle of all the AB’s usual bashing and BS by Tim W and his pals :

    “A lot of this apppears to be over reaction, and pictures are unflaterring to most of us…however…it seems to be playing out a lot more like Turk than Bosh. Fans upset. Gm voices displeasure/ in Turks case fine. Player responds in off season sounding disgruntled. The Star sends out Feschuk to protect Smith. You know how that ended… it feels like everyone is sticking to the script and hoping that the other plays their part. Bargnani is happy he gets traded. Fans are happy the “ingrate” is gone. The Star gets their story. Coangelo looks like he was on the side of the angels all along… ”

    It is great to see some people actually see what is happening over and over in this city in the last 5 years and how we are treating our players and why the reputation of this franchise is sinking. 

    Sad part is that some fans fall for this BS.

    • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

      Maybe if you could let me know what my usual “BS” is, because I usually am able to back up any argument I make.

      And it seems to me that you’re blaming the media for the faults of a player, when in fact the media is simply seeing what has been apparent to me for quite some time.  It’s too bad you haven’t see it, yet.

    • Nilanka15

      Wow, what a cop-out.  Fans blame players when they DESERVE blame. 

      HOORAY FOR MEDIOCRITY, right buddy?

  • Bigbalboski79

    bargs is just showing us that euro players can be just as of jerkoffs as american players.  maybe this will kill BC tendancy to build a “world” team, and just get the best guys and worry later if we can resign them.  turks and AB have shown us that lazy and uncomitted players can also come from across the pond. 

    btw, i like kemba at the 5 because 1. he is a born leader and 2. (most importantly) can create his own shot.  he D will be decent due to his speed and ability to keep his man in fornt of him.  the only opther consideration should be knight if he is there.

  • kaboom

    NO MORE FUCKING EUROPEANS FOR FUCKS SAKE. 

    • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

      And after what happened with Vince, McGrady and Bosh, no more Americans, either.  And with Hakeem and Alibi stinking it up as Raptors, we can cut Africans off the list, too.  Araujo pretty much killed any chance a South American player is going to help.  The Raptors also has Bateer, so CHina’s off the list as well. 

      I guess that leaves Tristan Thompson as the only viable candidate.  

      I guess being an ignorant xenophobe has it’s drawbacks.  It’s hard to field an entire team made up of Canadians.

      • pran

         no more SOFT euros?

        • Jonathan

          No more soft ANYONE.

      • onemanweave

        George Laraque would make a great power forward.

        • onemanweave

          Chara could be our big man, but he’s just another soft Euro.

  • Mediumcore

    The Raptors should trade this pick along with personnel or assets for a starter. No point improving the bench when you’re this bad. I doubt they see anyone left in the draft at the 5th spot as a potential starter.

  • Bob

    please not Valanciunas