The consensus is that the Raptors should not sign a free-agent. Should not make any major trades. Should not try to gamble in any sense on the market. Should stay put, suck for another year, and get another high pick, and trudge slowly towards respectability. That plan might be rooted in some sense, but it sounds so pathetic that I wonder to myself what the point of supporting this team is. Is striving for contention this hard in the NBA? Or is it that the Raptors are in such a difficult place that the road to anything resembling respectability is arduous and full of games of chance?

I know, I know, I’m starting to sound like a complainer and you might point to the Baby Bulls and Grizz as examples of teams that went through horrid stages before becoming good. In fact, that’s what I tell myself, we, the Raptors, could be good just like those teams. That is the only hope that I retain in the morose landscape that is today’s NBA. As I was coming out of my depression, Gilbert Arenas dropped some harsh reality, which would make even an optimist adopt a defeatist attitude.

Hey now! That wasn’t how you open up a July post in a locked out NBA off-season with nothing to look forward to except wonder which European club Sonny Weems will sign with as he runs away with his tail between his legs after being stuffed by a nobody. Not so bad though, Rudy might do the same.

Jonas is tearing it up it Latvia. He had 15/9 in their 111-68 win over Canada. Actually, win isn’t the way to term this. Devastation is more like it, wait, not even that does justice to this one. What they did to Canada is what a Category 5 tornado does to lawn chair. Despite the embarrassing result, Basketball Canada’s Twitter account found a positive – some guy dunked on Jonas. I can relate to Basketball Canada here, whenever I crush A-Dub 7-1 in FIFA11, the little punk always manages to score his one goal on some insane bicycle kick. Annoying as hell.

Moving on to other randomness. Bargnani poll ended like this:

43% of people think he’s been given his chance in Toronto and has blown it for whatever reason. Laziness, lack of motivation, imperiousness to his coaches telling him to give a shit, whatever. This 43% want him out at all cost and are sick of his sight. These people throw out a carton of milk no more than a week after its expired.

Then you have a big number, 42% to be exact, that think he deserves yet another shot, this time at his “natural position” at power forward and that too in a starting role. They give Bargnani the benefit of the doubt and feel that his defects can be accounted for by compensating at other positions, and that he will eventually find his way. When these people meet a carton of milk that’s been expired for a week, they think storing it in a bowl will make it good for another month.

Then you have 8% who feel that Bargnani is not good enough to be an NBA starter, but recognize the positives he brings and don’t want to lose those positives. To them, the bench is a fair compromise. When they sniff milk that’s a little off, they won’t drink it but have no problem giving it to their pet.

Finally, we have the 7% that feel Bargnani should remain the starting center despite even his coach losing confidence in him at that role. If this lot find run into milk that’s turned yellow and is full of bacteria having wild orgies, they’ll deem it good enough to feed it to their newborn without hesitation.

  • cesco

    Andrea is more like a Grand Chateau bottle of wine who has to age a minimum of 5 years before it is uncorked .

    • Theswirsky

      Bargnani is very much like a bottle of wine.  Fragile and made of glass.  Often handled with gloves and too expensive for what you get from it.  Offers the exact same amount of defensive ability aswell.

    • JW

      Your host tells you he has this bottle of wine that he has been aging for 5 years, you get all exited.  He comes running up from the cellar and brings a bottle with a screw top. 

      You politely tell him that you do not drink wine.

      • cesco

        Your host is an idiot . Screw top wines are made to be drunk soon after you buy them . They do not improve with age because the quality of the grapes they are made of is to low to warrant the aging process . Keeping , aging and reselling vintage wines years later will beat the stock market any time .

        • ak

          sorry for my intervention but i keep noticing your comments are full with unexplained rage and lack of real intellectual substance.
          this one comment you made is a pinnacle of your work. please stop writing because you can’t get any more moronic.

          i mean now we talking how speculation on vintage wine beats the market? what you know about that?

          • cesco

            Sorry ak , I prefer discussing wine to discussing sour milk since Andrea to me is like a bottle of grand cru which is a couple of years away from reaching its maturity . Sour milk my foot .

            • JW

              My mom and I had one of them bottles of wine once, we gots drunk good on it.  Ma was dancing all around the trailer showing me the moves she had as a stripper before my uncle knocked her up…  That wine it taste so good I just drink it out of the bottle. mmm…and it goes good with hot dogs.

              • RapthoseLeafs

                Please don’t tell me you play the banjo.

            • Haaa

              Cesco, Bargnani is a bench player.

          • Riazan

            pretty sure he was making a joke…

  • Alec

    I am kind of offended by the description, as I voted to keep him at C

    Trade him? What can you get for a carton of expired milk? Pair of old socks? Some stinking hobo underwear? Pointless.

    Start him at PF? What would change? He no longer would need to rotate on defense or rebound? The only net result is that Amir and Ed will get less minutes and our salary space will be wasted on some expensive C.

    Benching him is ok, but I doubt it will improve his game or value to the team.

    Solution is hiring Dwane Casey, starting Bargnani at C. He will provide offence from matchups with other slow big men, whatever losses at the other end will be covered by his teammates and reduced playing time. 

    Maybe the milk isn’t spoiled but just sour? Maybe the fermentation will turn him into sour cream or cheese or yoghurt?

    • Theswirsky

      Trade him – just might give one an idea of his trade value.  Hopefully not but it would hardly suprise me.

      Start him at PF – you are right on there. 

      Benching – again spot on

      Starting – left in the exact same situation as last year.  

      So the solution to Andrea Bargnani is to do the same thing with him that has failed to date? (except with a new coach).  Offer more accountability, which is fine, but what happens if that accountability lands him on the end of the bench night after night?  Does that improve his trade value or value to the team?  One is now, more or less, benching him and does anyone want a 10-11 mil bench guy, especially considering where the team is at right now (and in the near future)?

      The only way keeping him as the starting C (or starting any position for that matter) works is if he changes.  Why would we expect that?  He hasn’t after 5 seasons.  He has stated on numerous occasions that he needs to change his ‘habits’, yet he hasn’t changed them.  He knows what he is doing wrong.  Why does one want to keep beating a dead horse? 

      If BC can move Andrea for any sort of an asset, or be turned into a positive salary dump, I don’t see how thats not the best option for the team long term.  Yes ofcourse Andrea may ‘get it’ this year or 5 more years from now, but personally thats not a chance I’d like to see this team take.  He’s had his chances and its time for everyone to move on…. dump the milk, accept the losses, go to the store and get a new carton.

  • Samuel (Frost-Byte)

    the fact that Triano doesn’t know how to play euro style basketball is the reason Bargnani doesn’t hit full potential.

    Bargnani is a good player offence, but needs mix of defence with the team, thats why he’ld be great on beat like a true 6th man Ex. Jamal Crawford, or  Barbosa.

    I’ve suggested many times before, Let Davis and Val be starters, then switch bargnani with both positions. This allows at times a Euro Game (Val + Bar (PF) ), American Game (Val + Davis), and a scoring game (Bar + Davis). This allows three different tempos in our team similar to Odom + Gasol + Bynum.

    I wish Colangelo would focus on team chemistry rather than popularity (Euro players are picked because of their individual performances in those leagues).
    We shouldn’t focus on trading Bargnani, as to the fact we should focus on the right style to play. Casey is a true american style, that is why dallas plays the 3 and inside. Which means Bargnani needs to stay to copy Dallas tatics. We have to ship off calderon because his turnovers are too high, and barbosa’s contract screws us over. Bargnani, if he doesn’t pull off the rotation, we’ll get another guy, but it is a slap in the face to lose a 1st round pick guy, to only trade him and he gets better.

    • Nilanka15

      Calderon’s turnovers are too high???  That’s like saying Bargnani rebounds too much.

      • Theswirsky

        you know I’m amazed how many times I’ve heard that in the past year.  How do people think Jose’s turns the ball over too much?  Its ridiculous. 

    • SuperJesusMan

      Euro Game? American Game? Scoring Game? WTF are you talking about?

    • Lucas Lopes

      I believe the Raps should invest in the Australian Game. Obviously neither American or Euro games are working. 

    • Moataz

      You clearly have no idea what you’re talking about!

  • JW

    I take the milk back to the store and tell them its a bad.  They do not speak a any english.  They say you buy da milk, you must a keep the milk.  I say, well this milk it no taste the way it a should.  The carton is a tall, and it look nice, but it do not go well with the cereal.  They say it must be the bowl, you try a de milk in a different bowl.  I bring them the bowl and they say that first I must pour the milk in, than put in the cereal.   Cereal first its a not good.  But I already pour in the milk, I say.  They say, no use in crying over a spilt milk, the milk was a good, nothing wrong with the milk.  I say goodbye, and I am a confused.  I no drink milk anymore. I make eggs.

    • Mediumcore

      LOL, were you writing with an Italian accent? If so, pure genius!

      • cesco

        When your ancestors were still living in huts in the middle of the forest , the Romans came to civilize them . That is why English is full of words with Latin roots and French , Spanish and Romanian are Latin languages  . Genius my foot .

        • JW

          I am just having fun with you.  I love Italy, my ex-girlfriend was Italian and she was smoking hot.  :( too hot for keeps.

  • Bearvon

    This may explain why I’m lactose intolerant.

  • Bendit

    Look what you have started here Arse…turned the posters into “hilarious” metaphorical and/or analogical purveyors. I cant say which piece had more substance….yours or the guy at Bleacher’s who is trying mightily to convince his readership that signing Wince Carter would be good for the soul and the Raptors.

  • Kgipu

    So to your eyes all 4 possible answers to the survey assume that Andrea is like a bottle of milk beyond its expiration date? A little bias somewhere?

    • Nilanka15

      Is it really biased if it’s startlingly true?  😛

    • Ihatehaters

      The milk’s gone bad!

      • Nilanka15

        Ahahaha, well played!

      • WhataboutBargs

        you got to shake it up!

  • Nilanka15

    Maybe responses 2, 3 and 4 are influenced by the assumption that drinking spoiled milk for another season results in a top 5 chance at a bottle of Mountain Dew (only the best drink ever!) next season.

    • Meow

      Meanwhile teams like the Spurs are making great, savvy picks with 2nd Round Crab Juice.

      • Nilanka15

        Don’t forget the kalkalash on a stick.

  • hateslosing

    The alternate perspective is that you throw out perfectly good milk because your paranoid and think is bad when really it’s perfectly good. Maybe the milk is skim in that it doesn’t have the flavour (read rebounding) that 1% has or maybe you like something a little thicker (read defense) like 2%, but if you put some chocolate syrup (Casey) in the skim you’ll find it’s even better than the less healthy alternatives.
    No racist.

  • Brian Y

    The new poll is hilarious.  Are there seriously people who think the Raptors can win a title in the next 10 years?  I think a realistic goal might be to win a playoff series in the next 10 years.

    • hateslosing

      Winning the title is what it is all about. If we don’t think it is even posible to win one in the next 10 years whats the point?

      • Brian Y


      • Malefax

        The poll wasn’t whether it was possible. It was whether you thought it would actually happen.

        • hateslosing

          Possible=will happen. Optimism at it’s finest :)!

      • barenakedman

        Ten years is a long enough for any team, no matter where they are now to win a title. There are so many things that can change in ten years. Draft a couple of superstars, make a couple of knockout trades, have a cap system or a level playing field when it comes to payroll. These are some of the things that could help bring a championship to the Raptors.      

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      And/or win the Atlantic Division.

      This team isn’t going anywhere as long as BC is running things like a Czar ie BC ‘CON’census cult like mentality.

       I guess making MLSE money makes up for the Rap’s losing games under BC- fans wake up it’s our hard earned money that BC aka The Liar is making & taking in exchange for his BullChit Euro Raptors basketball vision!!

  • Peter

    Bargnani brings positives to the team?  Since when? 

    • RapthoseLeafs

      He positively brings out the best and worst of this fan base.

  • Peter

    Bargnani brings positives to the team?  Since when? 

  • dalmatino

    what I don’t understand here is that almost everyone think Barg is bad defender, bad overal player, chuck the ball, offense, and so on and so on, …
    BUT, at the same time, almost everyone think we can get some ASSETS for him.
    Hmmm, by definition, assets means something valuable so I really don’t understand how we can get something valuable for someone who is bad player, bad defender, bad pasta eater and nothing else than bad, bad and only bad???

    I would like if someone from the ” trade Barg for ASSETS ” wagon explain to me, a non expert in basketball, but still economist, how it is possible.

    Ps. and please don’t try to explain it with bad or idiotic GMs from other teams, just pure and valuable/realistic explanation.

    • Nilanka15

      Short answer: if Turkoglu’s ridiculous contract can be traded twice within a span of 18 months, anything is possible.

      Even the worst players have value in someone’s eyes.

      • arsenalist

        Prediction: It’s going to get traded a third time to the Lakers in a deal for Dwight Howard.

    • Brian Y

      The ASSET we would gain from trading him is not having him on the team anymore.  Get it? Sometimes it’s just good to get rid of the bad milk because it smells so bad. We may have to pay someone to take it away.

    • mr.k1m

      In the eyes of GM’s a center or “power forward” with a pretty good skill set, either it be on offense or defense will always be valuable, especially for that position. I’m realistically hoping we can trade him for a 2012 1st rounder and an energy bar 😉

  • Kevin

    I like your milk analogy I for one would like to see how high of a pick he would get us in next year’s draft if any at all…

  • O D

    Correction: Barniyard Magician aka I can milk cow in one hour! Comes off the bench because he has ability to play in flow. Barniyard has more than enough ability to start on alot of teams, but with our makeup hes 50million dollar man off the bench. He still gets the minutes mixing in with Val and Davis in a three man rotate. Looking at our puzzle I say Derozan is a capable scorer and if he learns how to break down defences and pass Davis and Val will score. Davis and Val make their mark on the game with their defence, and in the post on offence. Barney’s physical makeup *when in shape* has multiple facets, he drives… sometimes, hes mobile with his dribble from midrange, and has a midrange/ three point shot. After wearing down teams with our defence I want him to come in and score, I also want him to be able to defend his position, but Ill accept if this his not his specialty.

    Anyways a starting unit of Val, Davis, Derozan, High Draft Pick, and Signing is our strongest route short term route, and a player of Barnyard Magics ability would look great off the bench if he bought into where Im going.

    I also think we should make moves this summer, but only to solidify the our team going forward. Bring in high potential young men where ever you can find them, and fill out our bench. Package Calder, and Kleiza, and see what you get, but by no means undermine my full body 1967 Firebird restoration for a plastic, and stucco job.. No thanks, Ill ship my metal from the 2012 draft and have my mechanics Derozan, Val, Davis, and 2012 free agent mold the bitch in.
    Are there Caveats? Sure I would take DHoward and Rondo, or CP3 if they were free agents, and we could sign them this summer at the expense of our draft pick but untill that happens…… 


    • Ihatehaters

      Who stuccos a 1967 Firebird??

      • O D

        Sterling, Donald…… Mo Will for lottery pick… Just one example of his backwards methods. 

  • Statement

    “Barniyard has more than enough ability to start on alot of teams”. 

    He could definitely start on the Phoenix Mercury.  He could also co-captain the all-NBA no-defense team with Charlie V.

    • O D

      Alot of these players are bitches, and this lockout shit is more bitch. I say we start up a Toronto wide league,
      I wanna own/ play for the Jarvis Rock!

  • Gerald Flemming

    Arenas is a bitter has been who had everything and lost it by his own hand.  There’s a little bit of truth mixed in there no question but taking him at face value is a serious waste of time.

    The only thing I think needs to be said is that the owners for the betterment of the league have to make profit sharing a working viable model and the players have to agree to a hard salary cap.  Those two things working in conjunction with each other will make the league more competitive and ultimately more enjoyable for the real basketball fan.  

    Nobody says anything about it but do you think Miami or Laker fans got off on watching their juggernaut play against the Wizards, Raptors or Minnesota?  Only if they have a real sadistic streak inside of them…and they can satisfy that somewhere else as far as I’m concerned.

  • ak

    to all fans that have more knowledge of basketball than i do, please explain the differencies between pf and c positions on defence.

    i get the offence part, the guy moving in the high post is a 4 and the low post guy is a 5. typically you need more skill and agility to move around the high post due to the proximity from the basket and a greater area to work in. low post is where the game gets more physical and dirty, you need more muscle to battle an opponent for a better position, angle or distance to the basket.
    prototype offensive 4 in this case would be chris bosh or david west, 5 is dwight howard or andrew bynum.

    i have voted for him to be a bench player, as i feel like without a defined position bargnani would be most succesful playing a generalist type role, adapt to the weaknesses of opponent backup frontline and pick them apart with his versatility, very much like lamar odom.

    • O D

      I agree with your last Paragrqaph….

           If Barny cant cut it in a sweet as role off the bench you fire his ass. In order to start you have to be able to play both ends of the floor, and we have a high potential player in Davis that can do that. If Barny wants to become Davis on the defensive end, and play to his potential offensively I welcome the challenge, and the ensuing dilemma.

    • hateslosing

      While I am not as knowlegeable as many of the other commenters I’ll attempt to reply.

      The first answer is it depends on what kind of defensive scheme you are utilizing. For example: in some defences, like a 2-1-2 zone for example, the role of the center is very different than the role of the four. In that scheme you guards guard the preimeter, your forwards guard the posts, and the center stays in the middle to challenge anyone you gets by the guards (this is not the only way to run this sort of zone but it’s an example). Alternatively in a 3-2 zone there is no difference betwenne the 4 and the 5. In that zone you have your 1, 2, and three guard the permiter while you 4 and 5 guard inside. You can do things like have one big normally on the ball side to differentiate the roles but it’s pretty standard.
      Talking about man on man, which is by far the most common defense in the NBA, the difference is normally that the center guards the larger opposing big and the power forward guards the smaller big. Since the smaller bigs are commonly permiter players, this pulls the 4 away from the net and makes it more difficult for him to help. The bigger big normally place closer to the rim meaning that your center is in a better position to defend the rim in help situations. This is actually what makes Bargs efective offensively: he is the bigger of the two bigs and so the other team puts their center on him. This pulls the center away from the rim and moves the four, who is usually not as good a rim protector and is unused to that position, closer to the rim. Bargs is then able to beat the opposing center with his speed and shooting touch. In short, normally the center is a better rim protector and is taller since he is usually closer to the rim. There are many exceptions but that is a good rule of thumb.

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      There’s really not a major difference as- a big is a big (Jack Armstrong voice).

      Usually your Center anchors your defense (protects rim, paint) but the PF can switch roles as needed in relation to said team system- same on offense as your Center is usually your major post up option but can switch up if a team has a post dominate PF ie MEaton & KMalone and vice versa.

      As we have seen in the past AB is usually guarding the other team’s PF while Amir/Ed/Reggie/Joey or whomever AB is paired with in the frontcourt is left guarding the opposing Team’s center more often than not as well most opposing Team’s switch their PF’s onto AB if their Center is getting abused by AB.

      With AB at PF it will make the Rap’s transition defense almost like a freeway to the basket for the other team as he had trouble getting back as a Center now going against quicker PFs he will have to hustle hard back on defense- or not.

      AB floats on both offense & defense and he will continue to do so as a PF as it’s all transparent semantics applied by BC in order to fool the average Raptors basketball fan with hype ie Dirk Dallas, keeping up with the NBA Joneses instead of making our own way.

    • jlongs

      It’s not as much about positions as it is about strength and length. The main difference the PF and the C has on defense is size. The C is usually bigger/longer and stronger and is able to guard the opposing teams stronger big man on the post.

      If Amir were a few inches taller, and both him and Ed were stronger, then we wouldn’t be talking about needing a “true Center.” But alas, neither is able to guard bigger, longer, and stronger players like Gasol, Bynum, Howard, Bogut, etc. So it’s not that they don’t like playing Center. They just flat out CAN’T…well at least not against teams with bigs stronger than them.

      As for team defense, the PF would have no problem being the anchor. HOWEVER, the Center could and should, at the very least, box his man out and REBOUND when the PF goes up to contest a shot.

  • Todong

    mak a do mak a ding dong Bargnani PF dim muk ah!!!!

  • RapthoseLeafs

    Here’s a topic for you Arse.

    If Jonas is a bigger, stronger version of Amir – albeit subject to NBA play – does this mean that AJ will eventually be shopped. Especially if one factors Ed Davis into the mix – Bargnani or no Bargnani.

  • Blockmon

    i dont get how some people still like and want bargs here
    trade him for anything useful, make way for JV, who apparently can play C

    things the raps need

    1. wing defense
    2. 3 point shooting
    3. rim protection
    4. myck kabongo

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      Replace #4 with 6’4 University of Washington PG Tony “GPS” Wroten Jr and now your really talking!lol

  • wburroughs

    Sorry to join late, while I don’t like tanking and hate to think of another lost year, but think of the big picture. JV is looking (at least in a low-level tournament) like a potential stud center who can rebound and play in the paint. He won’t come to the raptors for another year though. Next year there will be some elite SF prospects in a very strong draft. If we can get a high pick next year (dare I dream of Harrison Barnes?) we can bring in two lottery draft choices into the fold in one year. They can join Ed Davis and Derozan in a young core with potential. Then no more tanking, just building with a real core of young talent, no more overpaying to bring in marginal talent in another patch-job attempt to compete

  • Yesziirr


  • Eddy

    MLSE hardly has to lift a finger to sell Toronto on another 5 years of a losing, crappy basketball team. Most people are already cheering for more failure.

  • Bigbalboski79

    I really dont know who is more stupid: the 43% who say “trade” bargani, or the 7% who say “play him at centre”?  it should be obvious to all that bargs value is so low you cannot trade him.  or else why wouldnt we havent traded him already?  i am frustrated as everyone else on this board, but giving him away for spare parts would be a dumb move when we are nowhere near being a playoff team with real chances for a title.

    i think the plan is to move bargs (later), but to fill in the blanks at centre and the wing first, see if his value is increased. i am certain we will see his reb numbers to improve and his scoring come down under casey: avgs of 18/8 would seem reasonable.  we have too much depth at PF to keep everyone long term, but until we can get anything good (ie equal talent) in return, a move now makes no sense.

    btw, gilbert arenas hasnt won a championship.  has had almost no playoff success.  why would his comments on building a team carry any weight.  guy is an idiot. 


    • Nilanka15

      18 and 8 would be solid numbers for Bargnani.  But does he put up those numbers playing PF or C?  If at PF, does that mean Davis’ minutes are reduced?  If at C, does it mean he’s still rotating poorly in help situations?

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      Barg’s value is so low? lmfao

      We haven’t traded him because Gheradini is Barg’s own personal GM not to mention that he’s BC’s ‘Golden Child’ of his Euro Raptors basketball vision as well as being the 1st Euro ever drafted #1 overall in the NBA Draft- recognize game, or not. 

      Plus AB just came off of a season where he averaged 21 ppg even if it was on 17.8 shots per game some GM will see value in that and believe that they can work with AB on their roster ie Boston (AB &  for JGreen, ABradley & Celtics 2012 #1 draft pick?), with the Rap’s getting some nice talent and/or draft picks in return.

      You think the plan is- what plan? From who did you hear this?

      18 & 8 from Bargnani? 8 what- pre game Primo pasta dishes?lmfao

      As well, BC has said in the past that he gets offers for AB all the time from GMs- well what were/are those offers- BC?

      Gilbert is a veteran NBA player who is far from being an idiot- immature maybe, but not an idiot as he is a very bright & thoughtful person when speaking on issues outside of the NBA and is right on in what he says about MOST ‘rebuilding’ teams getting caught in a quagmire of stagnation.

  • kaine

    A guy that can score 21 ppg in the nba, scoring from inside and outside, and here I read “bench him”. someone here should take “basket 101”.
    which defense played bosh?
    which defense played derozan?
    which defense played weems?
    which defense played hedo?
    which defense played ford?
    which defense played bosh?
    which defense played calderon?
    which defense played kleiza?

    is bargnani’s fault that mitchell and jay are subpar coaches?
    is bargnani’s fault that colangelo gave 24 milion on jason fucking kapono?
    is bargnani’s fault that bosh screwed the team by marrying lebronjames?

    c’mon people…grow up

    • GermanWunderkind


    • thatpeterguy

      He has historically one of the worst defensive number EVER and he has a terrible true shooting percentage AND is admittedly lazy.  Who gives a fuck that he averaged 21ppg.  What people fail to understand is that Sonny Weems could have averaged 21 ppg last year if he got 15-20 shots per game.  Mike James averaged 21 ppg too.  Whoever you centre your offense around is going to get there points.  It’s how efficient they do it. 

      I agree he has value for certain teams whose strength compliment his weaknesses but how long are we going to hold out hope for the guy.  Assuming he’ll jump from 5.4 rebounds per game to 8 without increased minutes would make it the largest rebounding jump from a 5 year vet in NBA history.  So yeah, let’s all hold out hope that his lazy ass will do that. 

      He’s good at scoring in a secondary role and can be useful but let’s not start putting all the blame on everyone else.  Five years is more than enough to figure things out.    

      • mountio

        Check out Mike James advanced stats from 05-06 .. not as bad as you might think:
        eFG% .538, TS% .583, 19.7 p/36, 5.7 a/36 …

  • GermanWunderkind

    This team, better BC, destroyed AB career. 5 years the wrong position, 5 year without an coach. Toronto has one of the best offensive player of the nba but they are not able to use him. Simply bullshit, please trade AB!
    He could be a new DN but the most people here prefer DD which is not able to get a shot from 3 or 4 meters. You’r so funny!

    • Theswirsky

      “the best offensive player of the nba”,

      “this team, better BC, destroyed AB career”

      from Kaine above:

      (paraphrase) “its everyone else’s fault”

      clearly its the ‘haters’ being unreasonable

      • kaine

        i don’t mean that. clearly bargs has his weaknesses.
        but the roster in toronto was weak in talent even in bosh days.
        without  bosh is thinner than ever. Andrea is one of the few in the team that is a real nba starter.
        why he gets all the blame?
        each player has weak points. do you think that dirk in his career was better on defense?

        • Theswirsky

          he DOESN’T get all the blame… why is there a need to keep repeating that same line?  He gets the most attention (because of how the team treats him… pay, usage, minutes etc) and therefore the most talk, but thats hardly all the blame.  Do you think anyone would even mention Bargnani if he was getting Alabi’s treatment?  Do you not think all the talk would be about Alabi if he was getting Bargnani’s treament? (and no one freak out thinking I’m comparing the two).  If Bargnani is not on the team next year (or he becomes a bench player) the focus will turn to Demar.  Just like before Bargnani it was Bosh.

          And yes Dirk was better on D and rebounding throughout his career than Bargnani has been.

          • Statement

            Well said.

            Why people still want this dude on the team…I have no idea.

            Mike James was quite the scorer too when he played with the Raps…if we could turn back the clock, would Colangelo have given him 50 over 5?

    • Nilanka15

      But, but, but, DeRozan could be the next Michael Jordan, Dr. J., Dominique Wilkins, and Kobe Bryant combined. 

      C’mon man, quit the Bargnani/Nowitzki comparisons already.  They’re completely baseless.

  • Haaa

    mann bargnani sucks

    • GermanWunderkind

      You too

      • Ihatehaters

        Are you that guy that was in the pic of Bargnani with no shirt on? You LOOOOOVE Andrea!

  • Senlezayiflamak
  • hateslosing

    I disagree and I am in the Bargs should be kept and continue starting camp. Arse’s articles on Bargs are opinion, not news and so there is no problem with his giving his opinion. He thinks Bargs hurts the team and so writes an article where he analysed the teams options going foraward and he gave his opinion of those options in the form of an amusing metaphor. I don’t think anyone reads this and thinks, “man I can’t read anything on raptors republic because they don’t like Bargs”, I think people read this and go, “egads! I have to comment on this because I disagree!”. In truth, I think Arse should be praised for continuously coming up with amusing analogies and filling Raptor fans time with his almost daily articles.

  • Brian Y

    Who the heck “liked” this post? 

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

    Because Bargnani, whom the Rap’s are currently building around, was the #1 overall draft pick 5 years ago and has turned out to be less than that not to mention that he is a lazy ass moo’fer who has the skill but not the will to be a solid 2 way player in the NBA- in otherwords Bargnani is Italian for ‘I Smell Pussy’ as in a 7’1 250 pound PF not Center.

    As well Bargnani is a roster ‘CANCER’ that keeps the Rap’s lockerroom split because of there being ‘no accountability’ for his half ass ways from BC, Gheradini & Rap’s coaches (JJack, JJohnson, Turk, AWright, Rasho).

    Also, Casey has called Bargnani aka No Star’ the Team’s ‘Star Player’ so all that comes with the territory (I mean BC is still taking shot at CB in the media)THE TERRITORY AB’s to deal with or not as he is as indifferent as they come ie he already has his new 5 year 50 million dollar contract signed.

    That being said the biggest guy on the Rap’s team, by his own admission, isn’t a center- imagine that it took BC & he 5 years to come up with that PR spin no wonder CB booked it out of Town as he was playing next to a finesse 4 like himself while BC had no intentions of replacing AB nor of getting CB any All Star caliber talent to play with as a Raptor.

  • GermanWunderkind


  • arsenalist

    Honestly speaking, this article wasn’t even meant to insult Bargnani, it was just summarizing the poll.  The milk thing only happened because while I was writing it my wife made me cup of tea from shit milk.  It’s all her fault. 

  • thatpeterguy

    I take it you understand that most of the Bargs hate is based on his historically bad defensive numbers which literally make his the worst defensive C of all time…and then on top of that he gives a half-assed effort.  I feel like anyone who is a fan of Bargs is clearly not someone who is a serious fan of the team.  When I hear him say that he could be a great rebounder but sometimes he’s lazy I can no longer be a fan.  When he admits he has all the tools to be a great defensive player but just doesn’t I can no longer be a fan.  How you expect any of the writers on this site to not be very critical of him after having five years of evidence to back up the idea that he is just not a player that you want if you are trying to build a championship team is amazing to me.  And seeing as how he is the highest paid player on the team, he gets the microscope much more than the others.   What about all of this is unfair to you? 

  • WhataboutBargs

    bargs 5 yeaaaaaaaaaaaars of shortcomings

  • cesco

    ‘ you can’t hate on 1 drop of water when the entire puddle is dirty ‘ . Unfortunately , the haters think that the little dirty drop of water is what prevent their little pound from being a thing of beauty . 

  • Theswirsky

    your TEAM is only as strong as your weakest link.  That weak link is Bargnani.

    That hardly means the rest of the team is good defensively, but he is the worst culprit on a bad team.  So the answer some people want is ‘keep Bargnani and lose the rest’, when the much easier and logical solution is ‘lose Bargnani and keep the rest’.  

    Bargnani fans want everyone to believe that the ‘haters’ blame it all on Bargnani.  We don’t.  We know there are other problems with this team… but he is the worst part of a bad situation.  IF his offense was good enough that it could atleast counter his lack of D and rebounding, it may be understandable.  Its not.  Its not even close. 

    Bargnani needs to be addressed before anyone or anything else.  He gets the most minutes, the most usage, the most pay and a team consistently adjusted to ‘suit’ him. Once the TEAM actually begins to change how they view/use Bargnani (ie. treat him as an expendable asset like the vast majority of other players in this league)… we are going to see just how unimportant he really is.  Until then this organization is just feeding the ‘Bargs Boys’ lies (yeah points!, mismatch, Dirk Nowitzki), and starving the ‘haters’ (worst D in the league, worst rebounder in the league, absolutely pewtrid metrics, a 7ft Jamal Crawford).

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

    Amir, Reggie nor Bayless were seleted #1 overall- recognize.

    BC is not building the Rap’s around Bayless, Amir, Reggie nor Ed- recognize.

    If your Team’s best player is a half ass son of a b*tch then it will trickle down the roster likewise if your Team’s best player is your Team’s hardest worker then other players have no excuse not to work hard.

    If Rap’s players see the Team’s best player not being held accountable by the coaches for his half ass ways then it will split the lockerroom as well leading to large off season roster turnover as we have seen under BC each off season ever since BC prematurely fired Sam at 8-9.

    Andrea aka The Pope aka King Barg’s aka Lazy Moo’fer aka No Star aka Cancer doesn’t even dive for loose ball nor fights for them- see Amir commercial on RaptorsTV, & unless the ball comes directly to his lazy ass he acts like it’s beneath him to hustle hard with his pompous self.

    Until BC trades AB (& Jose) the Rap’s will be stuck with the bad karma that he carries inside him- a change of scenery would do AB & the Rap’s fans some good.

  • arsenalist

    I give up.

  • WhataboutBargs

    you got to shake it up!

  • RapthoseLeafs

    [” I feel like anyone who is a fan of Bargs is clearly not someone who is a serious fan of the team.” …. thatpeterguy ]

    Really? You’re gonna go with that statement?

    I watched every game last year – with 2 exceptions – and I PVR them as well (which allows me to review plays and calls). I consider myself a VERY big fan of this club, and by extension, some of the players. I especially am a fan of our draft picks, the good … the bad … and some ugly. Moving them out for something less, or someone’s trash, doesn’t interest me in the least bit.

    As for article, I respect that it’s a slow news day, and tagging the headline with AB, is a surefire way of getting one’s article read. My beef is not that Andrea is needed to keep the readers here, but the drivel that comes in the form of comments. As “Truth” stated, if one believes that an upside still exists for Andrea, we’re considered idiots with low BBall IQ.

  • thatpeterguy

    I have been making excuses for Bargs since he was drafted and last year I finally had enough.  I agree that he has value and on a team filled with athletic, defensive minded veterans he would make a great fit and provide some nice offensive punch.  I, even now, will admit that the guy can do some things offensively on the basketball court that are amazing and that you just don’t see guys his size do. 

    But for anyone who seriously has seen all the analytics on this guy that rate his as the WORST DEFENSIVE C in NBA history, read his quotes regarding his own admitted laziness, and watched him play soft, lazy, and uninspired defense for five years, I just don’t get how you can still hold out hope on the guy AND then wonder what’s up with all the hate.  It wreaks of fans who just watch the games, skim over the box score and see that he scored the most point and had the most highlight reel plays so therefore he is a solid player.     

    Unless we suddenly get a starting five overflowing with defensive titans then he needs to be relegated to the bench as a sixth man option which is already a little redundant since that is Barbosa’s role.  I just don’t see how this guy fits with this team going forward unless it’s off the bench which still doesn’t make a ton of sense with our roster the way it is.  

  • mountio

    +1 for sure.
    I like AB, because I actually want this team to win. In order to win, you need talent. The Raps dont have enough (not even close) … and if they are ever gonna win, they need to improve their talent, first and foremost. (Along with defense and a bunch of other shit .. but talent is the most important). Im totally happy if that comes through the draft, trades, free agency .. but based on the current roster, Im not gonna ride a Reggie, for example, because even though he has the heart of a lion .. dude cant make a layup and is short on talent. No matter many Reggies you have, you cant teach him talent. Maybe you cant teach AB to hustle and rebound .. but Ill take my chances with him vs the alterntive. I love the raps. I like AB. I want him to be better. Maybe hell never get there. But – I refuse to cheer for guys just cause they “play the game the right way” “dive for loose balls”, etc. The NBA is about stars and its about talent and its about scoring in the clutch when the defense is focused on you. AB has the best chance of anyone on our team to be a guy who can do that. Reggie, Amir, etc .. great role players, but they arent taking a team anywhere without talent around them..

  • Statement


    Where is the upside going to come from?

  • Statement


    He’s an overvalued scorer still on the team because of one man’s ego.

    It’s not fully Bryan’s fault, scoring is overvalued and is the number 1 criterion for handing out contracts.  Isiah Thomas is almost the poster boy for this type of thinking (Francis, Marbury, Curry), but most GM’s make the same mistake.

    It’s a shame though, because there are improved methods of valuing players and these improved methods all cast Bargnani in a crappy shadow.  Why? because he isn’t a good overall player…period.  I do understand that he has made improvements to his offensive game that makes him more versatile..but he isn’t THAT versatile.  It’s like having Jamal Crawford as your number 1 player (and IMHO, Crawford is better offensively).

    Bargs is who he is as a player….can’t blame him for taking the money…blame the idiot who gave it to him…we need something better than a mediocre GM if we are going to win in this market. 

  • mountio

    You sound half rational at the start of your post. But then you fade ..

    I look at AB the other way. People who dont like him are in two boats
    1) the “Ive looked at the advanced stats, and Im smarter than you, because all you understand in ppg .. if you understood advanced stats, youd realize how bad this guy is”. What these people dont realize is that a) advanced stats arent the be all and end all (WP/48 for example has reggie ahead of AB, which is a complete joke for anyone who watches games and undestands bball) and b) I would think the supporters (at least me) want more from AB and dont think his efficiency, etc. are where they need to be. BUT – what we do know from watching the games, is there is a difference between Amir, for example, (advanced stats stud) who couldnt create his own shot if you paid him and specializes in put backs and open court hoops and AB, who has to create his own shot against one of two defenders focused on him
    2) The people who are just so pissed off and offended by his lazy ass that they frankly dont care what kind of talent he has – hes too frustrating and you want him out of town. I sympathize with this group completely. BUT – you cant let the emotion and frustration with AB dictate what is the best decision for the raps. If a completely lazy, non chalant AB is still a better contributor than a hustling Joey Dorsey, AB still needs to play, right? Is it frustrating? Yes. Does it make you want to kill the guy due to his percived lack of effort? yes. But that doesnt mean he cant help the team (especially if he ever decided to give a shit)

  • thatpeterguy

    Mountio…thanks for simplifying that so even I can understand.  I see your main points are that a) advanced stats aren’t everything. We should ignore the very basic to the more advanced stats that point to historically bad defense and very poor true shooting percentages b) fans should support him more because after five years he just might decide to start trying hard even though there is no history of this effort ever being part of his game.  c) being a number one option is why he has bad stats…which is fair but only proves he should be a #2 option offensively at best.

    But all that aside.  Can you seriously see a “completely lazy, non-chalant” ANYBODY playing for a championship team?  Because I sure can’t.  He can help the Raps score points while we rebuild. Absolutely.  But with his defense being what it is he needs to do it off the bench where it won’t be starters taking it to him on offense all the time. 

    But hey, who knows, maybe he’s a front-runner and once the raps start winning he’ll start trying and I can go back to believing his doesn’t get bullied by deck chairs while on vacation.       

  • WhataboutBargs

    5 long yeaaaaaaaars!

  • Statement

    Well said Mountio.

    I still think Bargs is crappy, and that is from watching the games and looking at the stats.

    Show me how he helps the team and I’ll believe you.

  • WhataboutBargs

    so your calling the raptors a “dirty puddle”?

  • mountio

    As for lazy, non chalant players on a championship team (that were lazier early in their careers). Yes. Off the top of my head, Lamar Odom, Jason Terry, even Bynum to an extent would be examples of guys that had bad raps early in their careers for work ethic or dedication to defense or similar issues. Im sure there are others, but those are a few. Chandler is another guy who, while he always had the defensive skills, certainly hadnt been standing out for his effort on shitty teams over the last couple of years ..
    You are right, some guys will never get it. But, some guys, when put in a winning situation, with the right coach, etc can turn from one dimensional guys to quality team guys

  • Statement

    You keep saying Bargs has talent, but where and when is it displayed?

    No switching of positions will help.  He is still the worst defender on the floor at all times.

    At least Calderon doesn’t turn the ball over and is intelligent with his plays.

    Where is the evidence that Bargs is good?  Where?  Sure he can pull a few trick offensive plays but this is a 22 win team. 

    You don’t keep Bargs because he has “talent”.  You let him go because the more he plays, the more the team loses.  He is a crappy overall player,  period.

    I never liked his game from his 2nd year…why? because it is not conducive to winning.  Making interesting looking offensive plays…yes, but not winning.

    If Bargs completely turns it around…I will be happy and amazed, but I don’t see that happening.

    IMHO, this team will never be any good with Bargs playing signifcant minutes.  It wasn’t even a playoff team with Bargs starting when we had Bosh.

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

    The 206’s Jason Terry of Seattle’s Franklin HS has never been a lazy type of player nor had that rap as he has always been a high energy type of guy going all out to ball out- get real!!

    Chandler has been injured more often than not the last couple of years.

  • mountio

    Fair enough .. he was more in the category of a guy who had a rap as a one dimensional, not focused on defense player that turned out to be a good piece on a winning team. Lazy is the wrong word for him .. but there are paralells to AB for sure ..

  • Hyena_laugh

    your mom