Has everybody Jonazzed in their pants yet? Good, let’s move on to this series I’m regretting having started because it’s so damn depressing.

July 9 2008: Traded guard TJ Ford, forward Maceo Baston, center Radoslav Nesterovic and the draft rights to center Roy Hibbert to the Indiana Pacers for forward Jermaine O’Neal and the draft rights to center Nathan Jawai.

A classic failed quick-fix, Colangelo tried to pair-up Chris Bosh with Jermaine O’Neal and hoped Andrea Bargnani would fit somewhere in the mess. He gave up Roy Hibbert, who would have looked good right about now in a Raptors uniform. The draft and the season were wasted because of this one move. Colangelo succumbed to the idea that Jose Calderon was a starting caliber point guard, and didn’t hesitate to break up the Forderon combination which had worked only too well, at least before fans/media turned it into a PG controversy and forced one out.
Grade: F
Team impact: Very negative.

January 7 2009: Traded guard Hassan Adams and cash to the Los Angeles Clippers for a future conditional second-round pick.

A money-saving trade that freed up a roster spot which was used on either Pops Mensah-Bonsu or Quincy Douby, take your pick.
Grade: C+
Team impact: None

February 13 2009: Traded center Jermaine O’Neal, forward Jamario Moon and a future first-round pick to the Miami Heat for forward Shawn Marion, guard Marcus Banks and cash.

This is Colangelo applying two quick fixes in one move in addition to a self-destructive blow: 1) Get rid of O’Neal to promote Bargnani to the starting center and hope Marion’s rebounding/defense can make up for the the former, 2) Enter the summer sweepstakes early to overpay for another bad fit (Hedo Turkoglu). Self-Destructive Blow: The Heat used the cap-space freed up by O’Neal to sign Chris Bosh (albeit in a sign-and-trade). The pick the Raptors threw in there was too much of a cost at the time, and in hindsight, maybe letting O’Neal expire a year later would have been the smarter move (at least it could’ve avoided the whole Turkoglu fiasco).
Grade: C
Team impact: Negative

February 19 2009: Traded guard Will Solomon to the Sacramento Kings; acquired center Patrick O’Bryant from the Boston Celtics.

Solomon was absolutely awful and possibly the worst Raptor since the expansion years. Patrick O’Bryant was worse. I mean, at least Will Solomon entertained by committing turnovers whilst attempting over-the-back passes into the backcourt. Patrick O’Bryant just sat there staring into space.
Grade: C
Team impact: Negligibily negative.

June 9 2009: Traded forward Jason Kapono to the Philadelphia 76ers for forward Reggie Evans.

This was a great trade but I’m only giving this a B because for one reason: it should have happened two years earlier when the Raptors lost to the Nets and Evans was very much available. Instead that summer we got Jason Kapono. Colangelo corrected, but it was way too late. He’s been injured a lot, but did provide what was advertised, however the Raptors never quite replaced Jason Kapono’s outside shooting.
Grade: B
Team impact: Positive.

July 9 2009: Traded forwards Shawn Marion and Kris Humphries, center Nathan Jawai and cash to the Dallas Mavericks for guard Antoine Wright and forward Devean George; traded cash to the Orlando Magic for forward Hidayet Turkoglu.

The Raptors gave up on Humphries who needed the oxygen of minutes to get himself noticed, and he did. Hedo Turkoglu was a disaster from day one, and it was clear that nobody had communicated to him the role he was expected to play in Toronto. This is like that bad project at work where everybody hates each other and can’t stand to be in the same room. This project did end, but just like with Jermaine O’Neal, not until another year was wasted.
Grade: F
Team impact: Very negative.

July 30 2009: Traded forward Devean George and cash to the Golden State Warriors for guard Marco Belinelli.

Colangelo had been chasing Belinelli for quite some time, and when he finally got him and gave him the promise of minutes, Belinelli did nothing but disappoint. The culmination of his crapiness had to be that late-season playoff game against the Bulls where he missed four wide-open threes, sending the Raptors into another lottery. Absolutely criminal.
Grade: C
Team impact: Very minimal, but positive.

August 18 2009: Traded guards Carlos Delfino and Roko Leni Ukic to the Milwaukee Bucks for forward Amir Johnson and guard Sonny Weems.

Amir Johnson turned out to be a good player, and is headed for a long-career as a rotation player. Sonny Weems showed early potential only to lull himself to sleep as he lost his place on the team. Who’s the better player as of right now, Delfino or Johnson?
Grade: B+
Team impact: Positive.

In case you missed it, there’s a part one to this affair.

Share this:
  • Andre

    So do you think he deserves the extension he got? I dont. he continues his “model” of build a ball team and none of it has worked. I like him as a GM. I admit, the way he got hedo, i got excited. But he has overstayed his welcome. Its time for a fresh movement. Maybe in a couple of years.

    • cb

      we’ll have a new GM in two years; whoever he is will trade Valaciounus or whatever his name is for a draft pick so we can finally get a point guard. and then five years later, the franchise will move to vegas.

      • guest, but long time lurker

        Check the housing or unemployment stats for Vegas lately?  If the Raps are moving there because of better economics for the franchise, then I shudder to think what Toronto is going to look like in 5 years.

      • Wow, and then we’ll all develop cancerous tumors in our testicles and when we die cats and dogs will rip the flesh from our decaying corpses!!!!

        Think we can curtail the absurdist cynicism?  It’s starting to sound a little ridiculous.

      • The Apostle

        That is just outright stupid.

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      BC is still full of BullChit ie he drafts a 19 year old International project center with potential according to experts but won’t be NBA ready to start at center for 5 years? (using BC’s past AB development particular).

      So, now he will target a starting center via free agency and/or trades (as per Dwane Casey). Btw- Rap’s still need a quality starting PG & potentially a SF as well.

      But the 7’1 250 Bargnani aka Lazy Moo’fer is still on the roster (crying to his daddy BC that he is a PF trying to snake Amir or Ed’s PF spot) taking up space eating his free bowls of Primo Pasta- BALL!

      I agree, it’s past time 4 BC (Gheradini, Jay, Jim Kelly & co) to go, ever since BC prematurely fired Sam at 8-9 (then hired Jay after finishing 25-40) I have soured on him after supporting him his 1st 2 years in the TDot. We need new minds, energy, direction, structure & karma in the front office down to the pre/post game announcers & roster ASAP.

      BC’s Euro vision for Raptors basketball is a slap in the face of any intelligent, self respecting hard working Rap’s fans whom buy Rap’s tickets & merchandise with their hard earned money & give up their time to view Raptors games on tv (at home or at an establishment).

      We, the fans, need a real not a feel real NBA team to support- win or lose, not some backroom Stern wink & nod commissioned experiment with BC for Stern’s NBA Euro expansion plans.

      I’m just plain sick of this BC ‘CON’sensus BullChit as BC lies to the fans like he a cheating wife trying to get out of the house or staying late at work on the regular- PR spins in the wind.

      The bad karma from BC to AB to Jose needs to be exorcised from this Franchise- hopefully new ownership will bite the bullet and get rid of BC & his lackeys sooner rather than later.

      Btw Arse- Reggie Evans can’t be considered a positive as he missed about three times as many games as he played as a Raptor plus the Rap’s seemingly couldn’t consistently hit a 3 w/o Kapono, I’d call it a wash both ways.

      • Nilanka15

        Extrapolating Bargnani’s development period (i.e. 5 years) to determine Valanciunas’ development period is illogical.  Valanciunas could very well be our starting centre next year, or at the very least, our 1st big off the bench until he’s ready to step into the starter’s role.

        By stating that Valanciunas won’t be ready to start for another 5 years, you’re implying that he won’t be contributing for another 5 years….which isn’t likely to be true.  Valanciunas should be contributing far sooner than that (baring any unforeseen circumstances).

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          No, it is not illogical, it’s using past history as a future indicator on how BC will most likely handle Val in the media ala AB- do the full math my illogical friend.

          I didn’t imply that he won’t contribute for 5 years- stop making shit up,  based on  BC’s past  rhetoric with AB he will most likely be given 5 years as well to reach his potential whatever that may be as a starter or reserve has yet to be determined.

          Stop drinking the U19 hype in the NBA Val would get beat up- seriously, even BC & Casey said that he’s a few years away from being a NBA player much less the starting center for the Rap’s in 2012-13.

          I post what I mean no need to try and twist it up for your own benefit, wow.lol

          • Ihatehaters

            Ya. wow.lol

            Don’t get the bullchit twisted, son.

        • Boomer

          everything this guy says is illogical. he’d turn us trading weems for wade into a rant against colangelo. 

        • cb

          it’s commonly accepted among nba cognscenti that developing a big man, especially centers, is usually a process that exceeds the initial rookie deals that these draft picks sign.

          it’s very likely that we never see JV actually play meaningful starter’s minutes in toronto.

          • cb

            fix: “exceeds the initial rookie deals… in terms of years/length….”

          • cb

            fix: “exceeds the initial rookie deals… in terms of years/length….”

            • Theswirsky

              the “it takes 5 years for a big man to develop” philosophy is simply innacurate.  Its used for those raw players that don’t end up making it, or those “high ceiling” guys that never seem to even get a quarter of the way there.  Its an excuse for hope from GMs who screwed up (*cough*) and fans that want a guy to succeed so desperately (*cough cough*).   Does it take some longer than others? sure.  But just like most of the other players in the league, as long as they get some decent playing time,  you know what you have in the first few years. 

              Now if the idea is a player will reach their ceiling sometime after their rookie contract, well I think that can apply to 99% of the league  

            • onemanweave

              It took a guy named Alcindor about 5 minutes to adjust to the NBA, maybe less.

          • Ihatehaters

            Don’t know where this 5 year rule came from, other than BC saying it to justify the fact that Bargs wasn’t developing as quickly as he should be (and, apparently, not at all any more).

            Who are arguably the top 5 centres in the association right now?

            1) Dwight Howard: averaged a double-double his rookie season; All Star by his third year.
            2) Am’re Stoudemire: rookie of the year; averaged 20 pts, 9 rbs his second year.
            3) Al Horford: second in rookie of the year voting (to Durant); averaged 10 pts, 9.7 rbs as a rookie (not far off from what he averaged last year).
            4) Andrew Bynum: became a starter his second year; averaged 13 pts, 10 rbs his third year.
            5) Joakim Noah: averaged a double-double his third year.

            This is not to say that these guys are not still developing, but you cannot say that a centre doesn’t contribute (or play meaningful) minutes until after year 5.

            • mountio

              And .. lest we forget that AB was 2nd in ROY of the year voting! How can people claim thats not contributing out of the gate??? Its complete madness

              The fact of BC sticking with AB too long in some peoples opinion has ABSOLUTELY nothing to do with the development of a center or how long it will take JV to contribute. Somehow BCGJGTG perpetuates this and people have somehow latched onto it. Apples and oranges people ..

              • Nilanka15

                mountio, Bargnani finishing 2nd in ROY voting was anything but an accomplishment.  Brandon Roy received 127 of the possible 128 votes.  The lone vote for Bargnani was cast by, none other than the greatest homer of all time, Chuck Swirsky.  Concluding that Bargnani had a good rookie season based on this fact isn’t accurate.

                • mountio

                  Its completely accurate! I never got your response top this before, so please tell me how somehow in your twisted logic that these votes do NOT prove that AB was considered the 2nd best rookie in the league in 2006. The voting is 5 pts for 1st, 3 pts for 2nd, 1 pt for 3rd. AB totalled 264 votes, Rudy Gay was next at 93! Not even close! Had chuck not even voted at all (or voted for Gay instead .. the worst case for AB), thats a 10 pt swing on an almost 200 pt gap.

                  In terms of 2nd place votes, AB had 77 vs Gay’s 21. Again, not close.

                  This voting undeniably proves that AB was considered the 2nd best rookie that year .. thus a relative success in his first year in the league.

                  I know you guys are bias towards AB, but your revistionist history here is frankly appaulling. These are cold hard facts.

                  Please respond.

                  Note: Ive typed out voting because paste is messy

                  Name, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, Total
                  BR 127, 1, 0, 638
                  AB 1,77,28,164
                  RG 0,21,30

                  Brandon RoyPortland Trail Blazers 1271-638Andrea BargnaniToronto Raptors 17728264Rudy GayMemphis Grizzlies -213093

                • Nilanka15

                  I misunderstood your original post to mean “Bargnani finished 2nd in first place voting”.  I apologize for the oversight.

                • mountio

                  Thank you.

                  Again .. your view of AB today (and whether or not BC has given him too much rope) might be totally fair. But we can not claim that he wasnt able to deliver out of the gate or that somehow we cant expect anything out of JV for 5 years because of AB’s percieved inability to live up to his all-star billing.

                • Nilanka15

                  I can’t help but agree with this.

              • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                Lest we not forget that my left nut sits next to my right nut in my nut sack.lol

                Who cares if AB was 2nd in ROY voting he isn’t even top 5 of his draft class 5 years after the fact not to mention that AB is a lazy Moo’fer who hustles like a quadriplegic on the court.

                BC & Casey on draft night said that Val is years away from being a NBA starter- recognize.lol

                And if you don’t think that BC will give Val at least 5 years to develop to ease Raptors fans expectations on him ala Barg’s in the media then you are ‘stuck on stupid’, buddy.

                That being said Bargnani only had 2 double doubles (rebounds/points) on the whole season while Ed had a team high 12 & Amir had 11.

                As well,  Ed had more total rebounds than Bargnani while playing around half the total regular season games minutes as Barg’s- do that math.

          • Unless of course he ends up being our dominant big man for the next ten or twelve years.  Just saying, if you’re going to go off on flights of fancy, let’s weigh it equally on the other end.

      • Raps Loyalist

        You backed BC for the 1st two years! So basically you were behind him in the good times…good for you! what a true fan! Put that on your resume.

        You are the quintessential “I want the world and I want it now” type.  It takes time, a plan, and patience to build a championship caliber team in a small market. And you build a championship team from the inside out. PG and SF are easier positions to fill than C so you start at C if a good prospect is available (because they take longer to develop) and then add a PG and SF later.  The 2012 draft is the time to get a game changer on the wing or at point.  We all know you like Kemba Walker but to blow a #5 pick on a guy who’s ceiling is JJ Berea is criminal.  JV has got the potential to be and all-star one day (Kemba has absolutely no chance) but more importantly JV is a guy who will be able to bang with the best inside in the playoffs down the road.  We need to build a playoff team not an exciting regular season team that will get crushed in the 1st round.

        Also, you don’t trade Bargs and Jose until their contracts are closer to expiring because that’s when you’ll get the best return for them.  We are rebuilding anyway so we don’t need immediate return for them right now. 

        Less complaining more long-term thinking BCGeradiniJayGots2Go!!!.  BC is good at drafting so he is a good GM for the next 2 years.  Then is the time to get a new GM.  With the Raps in tank and with only a couple good young prospects do you really think a premier quality GM is really gonna want to take this team over at this point?

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          STFU, forreal.

          I backed BC until he did Sam dirty- point blank, buddy.

          I can differentiate from supporting BC & supporting the team on the court- recognize.

          *Patience with BC started back in 2006 it’s now 2011- recognize, he started in the TDot with a gold platter and fucked that up big time due to his (BC ‘CON’census) personnel decisions.lol

          *Patience is for waiting rooms not the NBA.

          If the Rap’s (you) want fans to be patient why not cut ticket prices all the way around in half until the ‘rebuild’ is completed so that fans are spending their hard earned money supporting BullChit promises of future winning?

          The 2 current longest tenured Raptor roster players under BC- Jose & Andrea.

          How can you even believe a rebuild is taking place with Jose & Andrea still on the roster as starters, wow?lmfao

          Buddy, BC already tried to trade Jose.lmfao

          And BC said that he gets offers for AB all the time so let’s move his lazy ass for some quality talent and/or draft picks (JGreen, ABradley & Celtics 2012 #1 draft pick).

          You trade both of those moo’fers ASAP as they represent what is wrong with the Rap’s- defense or the lack thereof plus Bargnani is a ‘CANCER’ keeping the lockerroom split due to his half ass sucka duck ways, preferential treatment and now his ‘I’m a PF not a Center’ (7’1 250 pound Bargnani crying to BC) crap has got to have either or Ed or Amir saying wtf.

          Also, you don’t have any idea who will or won’t want to take over the Rap’s basketball operations post BC (if BC is replaced) , really now don’t be silly now.

          • Daniel

            BCGheradiniJayGots2GO!!!, I’ll take a leaf from your book and repudiate your points one by one:
            – patience (or rather impatience) with BC did not start from 2006; patience was only necessary, and thus only started after the team’s results were not good – 2008 onwards
            – “Patience is for waiting rooms not the NBA” – seriously? This just shows little maturity you possess; while there are numerous examples I can cite (e.g. OKC), it really isn’t needed: OBTUSE COMMENT
            – if the previous comment ^^^ is indicative of your immaturity, this one truly demonstrates how stupid you are…”cut ticket prices all the way around in half until the ‘rebuild’ is completed “??? The Toronto Raptors are a BUSINESS; THEY NEED TO MAKE MONEY. I was hoping even dipshit like you would have a shred of intelligence and recognize the simple need to MAKE MONEY but I stand corrected
            – retaining Jose and Bargs does not run contrary to a rebuild; it might impede it in some aspects but to say that retaining your 2 longest tenured Raptors on your roster amidst a rebuild completely repudiates your rebuilding ‘effort’ is a pretty big stretch
            – what does “BC already (having) tried to trade Jose” got to do with anything???
            – again, what does him not having “any idea who will or won’t want to take over the Rap’s basketball operations post” have to do with anything (and how is it being silly)???

            Final point: I hope you recognize just how patronizing you sound, because it makes you look like a complete tool.

          • Daniel

            Oh…and I forgot to mention. Stop it with the fake laughs after every sentence as if you find something funny, when you clearly don’t. Sooo childish…

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

              Trying to tell someone how to post is extremely anal, buddy, forreal.

              If we were in a bar talking Rap’s basketball face to face I highly doubt that you try to tell me how to talk or when to laugh- recognize, respect the intellect or get self checked.lol

              Btw- your above post response is complete facetious balderdash stop trying to analyze and regulate learn to e conversate or evaporate.lol

              • Camp

                “Trying to tell someone how to post is extremely anal, buddy, forreal.”
                Not nearly as anal as you trying to tell someone how to run a basketball team.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  Strike 1.

                • Ihatehaters

                  What a tool.

                • Don’t start handing out strikes.  People already think you’re crazy, now they’re going to think you’re ‘chase the laser pointer on the wall,’ crazy.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  U really think that I care what some people think of me up in here?

                  I’m not that insecure, buddy, I care what my family & friends think about not some internet side bustas- on the real. 

                • Okay, whatever.  You’re incredibly self realized and grounded by the things that matter…blah blah blah…you don’t act like it.  You react like somebody who’s skin is as thin as toilet paper.

        • Sek99

          What makes you think Valanciunas is so much better than Kemba? As far as I’m concerned, the only reason either was drafted at the position they were drafted was because of their respective sizes. If Kemba was 6′ 3 and had a longer wingspan, he would have been 1st overall, and if Val didn’t have ridiculous measurements I doubt he would be as prized. These guys are being judged based mainly on size. Size for C’s dominate in younger ages (Kwame Brown, Olujawakandi, Chandler, Milicic) whereas to play the PG spot in any league takes some skill. That’s why I was and still am high on Kemba, because of his skills, whereas Val could look really good because of his size and athleticism, but then get to the league and may not translate.

          And why should we be ‘loyal’ to a GM? They are doing a job, and if they fail, we shouldn’t keep backing them. If you were a executive in a work place, you wouldn’t keep an under-performing employee out of loyalty, unless you wanted to go out of business.  

          • Cal

            Obviously, size plays a major part, but it also has to go hand-in-hand with skill, JV presented a combination of BOTH. There were other 7 footers in the draft that were drafted late, they had good measurements, but not much else in terms of skill-set. 

            For the record, I highly doubt Kemba would’ve done what JV did in the U-19 tournament…oh never mind, Kemba wouldn’t be allowed to play….he’s 21.

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

              Rap’s drafted for need over talent as Casey already dry snitched they went with size because they have alot of guards like Knight/Walker already on their roster.

              BC wants AB to play PF by any means necessary even if it means trading away Ed and/or Amir.

              Kemba is an almost a fully mature basketball player ready to contribute from day 1 for his NBA team.

              Val is a project with *potential (potential usually gets people fired in the NBA) that is at least 3-5 years away from being a NBA starter as per BC, Casey.

              What Kemba has done is lead a Team that college basketball experts predicted to finish 10th in the Big East in preseason Conference projections to a NCAA Title- do the full math not the self serving half.

              • Ihatehaters

                Kemba will be working the drive-through midnight shift with Ed O’Bannon in 2 years, you can bet on it.

              • Not even close.  They drafted the best player available and that’s why Gilbert and the Cavs are catching flack from their bloggers and the media. I’ve read about a dozen articles that are talking about how they’re going to regret taking Thompson because of how good they think JV is going to be…

                • Nilanka15

                  Agreed.  As much as I root for Thompson being a local kid, he was a HUGE reach with the 4th pick.  Other than Thomspon’s mom, there isn’t anyone on the planet who can say that Thompson was the 4th best player in the draft.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  TT > Val

                  Time will tell.

                • Nilanka15

                  What could you possibly base this on?

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  My own personal opinion- nothing more, nothing less.

                  As is posted- time will tell.

                • Ihatehaters

                  Indeed it will, internet sage. Indeed it will.

                • And by sage you mean that crappy stuff my wife burns to make the house smell better.

                • Yes time.  Not you. Regardless of all the cute little symbols you want to use.

          • Bendit

            Using size as the major metric for choosing players at their positions is a very limited way to view the draft process. If that were so than Manute Bol would have been chosen very high and Chris Paul much lower in their drafts. Without degrading the size factor too much, ino, skills and intangibles (leadership, will, character etc) will outvalue size all the time. I was high on Kemba because of his intangibles but it seems JV has his share of those as well. 

          • Raps Loyalist

            I am loyal to the RAPS not BC.  I like the BC two year extension because more often than not he has made good draft picks throughout his career.  BC has made some horrible signings and trades so I don’t think he is the long-term answer at GM but I do trust him to make a good pick in the 2012 draft, which is our big chance to get a franchise player.

              I would never in a million years take Kemba Walker with the #5 pick. I like his game a lot but his position is the easiest in the league to fill and he has virtually no upside as he is not going to get significantly better in the NBA.  Why do you think so many great college players fail in the NBA? Answer = They are undersized and not athletic enough…those are the two main problems you identified with Kemba and that is why he is an average prospect (plus he is 3 years older than JV)

            On a championship
            caliber team…

            Kemba, at best, can be a roll player off the bench. While, JV, at best, has the potential to be an good/above average
            starter at the hardest position to find a quality player at. That’s a huge difference.  Kemba just isn’t ever going to be a starter on a top tier team…you can’t spend a #5 pick on a guy who’s destiny is to be a 15-20mins off the bench backup combo guard. WE ALREADY HAVE THAT IN BAYLESS!

            JV has a great frame, he has legit center height, he is athletic, he loves to fight/play hard AND he already shoots FTs at 85% at 19 years old. That’s what you call a good prospect my friend.  Additionally, you keep him in Europe to work on his game so his rookie contract doesn’t kick in for another year but he is getting lots of minutes and improving (again, it doesn’t cost you anything/you don’t waste a year on his rookie deal.) 

            Another benefit to drafting JV is that you don’t improve your team this year and, therefore, you get a better pick in the 2012 draft when there will be at least a few legit franchise players that can be the superstar this team desperately needs to build a championship team around.  (If Kemba is as good as you think he just messes that up and we end up with the 10th pick. That would be a tragedy.)

            Finally, you’re right there has been bad reaches at the top of the draft at center in the last decade. But the same time there have been lots ex-college stars that were huge disappointments (A. Morrison) or marginal role players (J.J. Reddick) are just two recent examples. Also, teams that got a good legit center in the draft have been richly rewarded (D. Howard, A. Bynum, A. Bogut, J. Noah, Yao Ming)….so it cuts both ways.  For every Olawakandi or Darko there is a Howard or Bynum.  That’s why teams roll the dice on these guys and JV is a good calculated risk (as they would say at the WSOP)

            • Sek99

              I wasn’t talking about busts in general. It’s just that playing the PG spot requires as a necessitiy some skills, you can’t dominate just by being huge, which is different for players at the centre position, who can look very good in lesser leagues due to size. And just because there has been a surge of PG’s recently doesn’t take away from the fact that it is still the most important position on the floor. I don’t know exactly how you are judging Kemba as a role player. . . people said similar things about guys like Lawson and guys like Zach Randolph and Kyle Lowry when these players were drafted. Neither of us know how good either player will be in the NBA, but look at the past few drafts and PG’s games often tend to translate far better than bigs. PG’s aren’t gurarantees, but in my mind they are far surer shots than bigs. Besides, there is ONE Dwight Howard type player in the league, and while Ming, Bogut and Noah are all good, they are rare, and even two of them you mentioned are injury prone.

              The second thing is that I hate saying “lets be shit this year because next year is a deep draft”. Last year was supposed to be a good draft, and it was shit, and the one before that was supposed to be shit, and it was really good. And what if we end up getting 9th pick or whatever. I’m not saying we should be looking for a quick fix in free agency or whatever, but you should always look to get better as a team every year, not plan to get better in the future. Because you know what’s worse than mediocrity? Being shitty year after year and having our annoying media saying ‘don’t worry, next year we’ll be better and play defense’, sort of like Sacremento or T’Wolves.

              • Raps Loyalist

                Center is by far and away the hardest position to find a good player at.  Look around the league! There are way more good point guards than there are centers and there always has been. Also, when you’re trying to win a championship solid interior defense and rebounding are the two crucial must have components.  Post-MJ every championship team has had great interior size and rebounding. Of all those teams the best point guards were Chauncey Billups, Tony Parker, and young Rondo…the others were Fisher (mediocore) WhiteChocolate/40 year old Payton (brutal combo) and 38 year old Kidd (average at this point).  The centers were Shaq O’Neil, Tim Duncan, Ben Wallace, Kevin Garnett/Kenrick Perkins, Paul Gasol/Andrew Bynum, and Tyson Chandler. 

                Notice that all these champs had either all-time greats in all-star form or excellent defensive specialists/defensive player of the year candidates manning the paint.  Parker and Billups were the only players in all-star years at point (but they are not likely Hall of Famers…let a lone all-time greats) and the rest had average or below average points.

                If Raps want to be contenders we gotta build-up our frontline with all-star potential/defensive player of the year potential players.  Finding the next MJ is just not a formula you can try to follow. Those are just the facts.

                ps the last elite point guards to lead their teams to the championship (Isiah and Magic) had amazing interior players on their roster. You just don’t need an all-star point to win champsionships…it is definitely nice to have one but it is not a must have like interior defense and rebounding.

                I like Kemba’s game and think he can do nice things in the league but he is just not a top 5 pick.

                Also, nobody ever said this years draft was gonna be great BUT EVERYBODY KNOWS FOR A FACT THAT 2012 DRAFT IS LOADED.  The Raps should give their young guns tons of minutes this year and take their lumps.  We need a franchise player and in Toronto the only way that is gonna happen is through the draft

        • Id

          I wouldn’t pay much attention to him to be honest. BCGheradiniJayGots2Go is the same guy that wanted players from the 1992 USA Olympics “Dream Team” to fill in the major positions of management with this franchise. He’s the same guy that wanted to trade our 5th overall pick for Raymond Felton or Ty Lawson, and he’s the same guy that thinks Sonny Weems is a building block of this franchise. 

          Really, save your money, don’t go to a comedy show, all the jokes can be found in his posts.

          • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

            What players from the Dream Team outside of Chris Mullin (for GM) did I want to fill Raptors Front Office Management positions?

            I still support the idea of trading the 5th pick for RFelton or TLawson & WChandler (S&T) as long as Jose was going back the other way in the deal- and?

            Id, you have No Id(ea).lol

            • Id

              Lol, remember when you said you’d draft Isaiah Thomas with the 5th pick. He was passed on by 59 teams lol..

              I can also recall you that you wanted Barkley or Ewing serving the team in some capacity, and although he wasn’t on that dream team, you wanted Dr. J as team president. Maybe you’d also like Michael Jordan to make next year’s draft selection for us lol.

              Let’s just say it’s a good thing that you won’t be running an NBA team, you’d put them in a state of never-ending futility.

              • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                I have never posted anything of the sort in this forum in relation to Isaiah Thomas, The Raptors and the #5 draft pick- liar.lol

                Nor have I ever posted that I want Barkley (who is a clown ass brother) nor Ewing as any part of the Rap’s organization- more lies.

                Dr J, whom I have posted that I would want as the new Rap’s President before BC was re-upped, wasn’t on the Dream Team- stick to the script kiddo.

                Michael Jordan has his own team to run, next.

                When you speak in lies then you speak like the devil the father of lies- recognize.

                That being posted, you win the ‘I’m stuck on stupid’ badge for today- enjoy & congrats.

                • Ihatehaters

                  When you speak in rhyme, you sound like a tool… all the time.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  Sitting on the sidelines with no guidelines- worry about yours & I’ll worry about mines.

                • Nilanka15

                  Cash rules everything around me, CREAM get the money, dollar dollar bill y’all…

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  You just got gonged for biting- come up with your own ish don’t be an e poser, buddy.lol

                • Nilanka15

                  Method Man stole that line from me – recognize 😛

      • Bendit

        “BC lies like a cheating wife….”. Shouldn’t that be “like a cheating husband…”. Or have you decided husband’s never cheat or that BC had a sex change.

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          Damn, dude……..you need to chill the fuck out over analyzing one’s post- wow, I post what I mean str8 up.lmfao

      • Kevin Oppella

        You know what. You’re starting to make little sense to me. I mean before you made no sense but its gone up a little because I believe Andrea and Jose need to go (although I would prefer Jose to be exiled before Andrea) and I also believe that ever since BC got here, he wanted rid of Sam Mitchell. So he filled the roster with 9 new players to give him a hard time but it back fired when the Raps won the Atlantic Division and Mitchell was Coach of the Year. So the next season after two straight losses that but the team below 500 BC fired Mitchell and “thus began the downward spiral of the Toronto Raptors Basketball Club”.

        As much as Im willing to wait and see what he’s trying to do now, I can understand your frustration from his ego-inflated moves in the past.

        • points

          i saw the light ,i saw the light no more in darkness

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!


          Both AB & JC need to go then we can start really talking about building up Rap’s basketball because as long as both of them are in the TDot BC will most likely start both of them setting Raptors basketball back a year at a time in terms of seasonal progression in my mind.

      • Look I’m pretty sure by this point even you know that this kid is nothing like Bargs.  The thing that is going to expedite this kids development is he is hungry the way the really good players are.  The way Bargs just isn’t and never has been.  

        I get it.  You hate Euro’s.  But their were no sure fire American picks at five regardless of your fixation on Knight.  Prove to me he’s better or even different than Bayless so this conversation can actually begin.  Even if you could convince me that Knight will be a better pro than JV, you’d still have to get over the hurdle of we have a ‘Knight’, we don’t have a true centre who plays big in the post.  Who is skilled and hungry enough to fight for every single rebound and put back.  Do you know why I know we don’t have that?  Because true centre’s are incredibly rare.  

        I appreciate how cool it is to fly in the face of contemporary wisdom but there are too many people with too high a basketball IQ trumpeting this kid.  

        So in the simplest of terms I think we got the best player available and we didn’t incur a redundancy…regardless of where he’s from.

        And just a thought…maybe it’s time you validate your passport and go visit Europe.  Do a little around the world and back again.  It’s amazing how it can change you.

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          Pump your brakes friend, I don’t hate Euros- get real now.

          Some people up in this forum have to make up lies to come at me- wow, how has it gotten to this?lol

          When you ASSUME- you make an ‘ASS’ out of ‘U’ & ‘Me’- soak up some game, buddy.

          • THis is a response?  Really?  Look I know you’re not an idiot.  Stop trying to convince me conversely.

  • Up next should be the evaluation of free agent signings.  $24M for Kapono, a bazillion for Hedo, etc.

    • Sam Toman

      Yes… but not just in TO. Look at BC all the way back to Phoenix. There are some AWFUL signings. 

      • Probably, but I don’t think these guys have time to go through the guy’s entire portfolio. 

  • golden

    Has everybody Jonazzed in their pants yet?

    LOL.  Not quite done yet – a few loads left to blow.  🙂

  • Pbjake

    Although he’s been a bad free-agent signer in his tenure, but he surely has some skills drafting talent. We can look at all the way back from Stoudamire and Marion to Derozan (arguably top-3 talent in that class) and Davis (a vital part of our core). Hell, even Valanciunas is already flipping some hater bandwagons.
    So considering that, is can we justify re-signing Colangelo? I think hell yes. We’re in a phase where our best talent will come from the draft next year because we already have our hands short to sign any big name free-agents a la Turkoglu. This means, even if Colangelo signs another bust free-agent, he will at least not be money-heavy, seeing we would only have about $7 mil to spend on him.
    So sorry, I think I’ve Jonazzed so much that I am starting to like some of Colangelo’s re-signing, albeit on a short leash.

    • Theswirsky

      he drafted well in Phoenix (with different scouts, personal and assistance)?  exactly how has that helped us in Toronto?

      Andrea Bustagni? 

      Demar?  top 3 in his class? So you are telling me he is better than 11 of this list: Blake Griffin, James Harden, Tyreke Evans, Stephen Curry, Brandon Jennings, Gerald Henderson, Tyler Hansborough, Jrue Holiday, Ty Lawson, Darren Collison, Taj Gibson, Dejuan Blair, Marcus Thornton?  no thank you.  Demar may get better but right now he is a one dimensional player (and not that great at it) and I don’t think in the top 10 in his draft class.

      Ed – sure looks promising right now but he’s only played 2/3s of a season in spot minutes.  He could be Chris Bosh with good defense… or he could be Tyrus Thomas.  Not sure we can judge him that accurately yet.

      Val – hasn’t even stepped on an NBA court yet

      so exactly what great drafting has he done in Toronto? 

      • points

        the next dirk

  • Nilanka15

    Arse, nothing on the Hedu for Barbosa trade?

    • Nilanka15


      • mountio

        Im assuming there is a part III, that would include the deals since 2009 – Hedo, CB, Bayless, Ajinca!, JJ, etc.

        • Nilanka15

          lol, my bad.

      • points


  • Star_bury

    If/When BG goes, I vote Arsenalist reviews all the potential candidates moves too, just so we can compare…

    • You can only compare what GMs have done with the Raptors.  People can go from job to job and perform differently.. a lot of it has to do with luck and situation.

      • Star_bury

        Yeah, but sometimes you make your own luck… Let’s see if Pritchard helps Morway Pritch-Slap some teams like he did in Portland.

  • Kevin Oppella

     If only the raptors hired that perfect GM who never makes bad trades or free agent signings (what’s his name again?). But then I guess we would be a 35-40 win team. Maybe we should get a GM that would stick to the quick-fix mentality (also known as the please Bosh and/or Bargniani) that Colangelo has abandoned. But then I guess we would be a 35-40 win team. What if the Raptors hired a GM who was willing to admit a his preferred basketball style wasn’t working and decided to change it to a more defensive style, blue-collar hard working-type of basketball and build through the draft…….NAAAH! I see 35-40 win team written all over that!

    Enough kidding aside. I truly think Calderon is the problem with the point guard situation. Notice how when someone comes in he seems fine until they start challenging his position then he goes sour? LUCKILY when i goes to trades, free agent signings and drafts point guards a dime a dozen.

    • Kevin Oppella

      “comes to trades”

    • Sek99

      Didn’t Colangelo say we would change our style last summer too? What was our defensive rating again? Isn’t there a guy who is the anti-blue collar type still on our team and still being pushed as a main piece (as can be seen with the drafting of Valanciunas)? People eat what Colangelo says right up, I think mainly due to the media (Jack Armstrong, Devlin, Leo, Hamilton, etc) and because he ‘seems’ smart. Just like Hedo would be a perfect fit, Jermaine O’Neal would led us to the next step, and Jose Calderon is fine as a starting PG. For every good move he’s made (Derozan, Johnson, Evans) hes made just as many, if not more bad ones. I mean, the guy takes a good team with potential (2007), makes bonkers decisions and dismantles this team in an effort to better incorporate Bargnani and help Bosh, screws again by getting another non-defense non-athlete and redundant player in Hedo, which made us utterly mediocre, leading us to lose Bosh and being in this “rebuilding” phase. Because you have to suck to get better, except we were never actually good in his tenure post-2007. So lets just examine what BC has given us? 1 good year with promise, 2 mediocre years of no playoffs, 1 bomb year, and him saying and it being a general consensus that we’ll probably suck for another few years. This all coming with the very real possibility of us just becoming mediocre again. Everyone thinks were going to be the next Thunder, well players like Durant and Westbrook are hard to come by, and just because you get high picks (ex Sacramento) doesn’t guarantee competitiveness in a few years. But ya, BC is awesome.  

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        As much as BC caters to Bargnani might as well rename the Franchise as the Toronto Bargnanis’.lol

    • Theswirsky

      when has Calderon ever gone sour?  was it around the time he was committing all those turnovers?

  • Jack

    Some people are going to have a field day with this one, you know who I’m talking about.

    • cesco

      We all know who hates the Raps triumvirate (now reduced to 2) .

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        Jay got promoted into the front office to hold BC’s left nut as reward for being his puppet coach aka company man post Sam- recognize.

        • Ihatehaters

          Makes sense. But what did you ever do to earn holding his right nut, Stan?

  • tmk

    I don’t know, I found Will Solomon very entertaining. He actually gave me a reason to watch games.

    • Statement

      “What in the world are you doing, Will Solomon?”

      – Matt Devlin, after Solomon makes a truly horrific pass.

  • YeDig

    i hope BC has learned from the J.O. and Hedo signings…let us pray for none of those during the course of this rebuild.

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!


      What rebuild?

      Oh, you mean (President & GM) BC fucked up the Rap’s so badly that he’s called a pr spin on ‘losing with a purpose’- add sugar, water and stir…..

      • Nilanka15

        Whether the losing was intentional, or just a label BC used to cover up his mistake, you have to admit we’re NOW in full rebuild mode.

        • sleepz

          I don’t consider this team in full rebuild mode until they at least find a way to trade Andrea.

          I’d prefer that Calderon exits as well (I can live with him if they are unable to move him after last years attempt) but until they change the culture and admit the mistake which is Andrea, it can never be cnsidered a full rebuild imho.

          • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

            That’s what I’m saying you can’t call a rebuild and keep the 2 longest tenured Rap’s under BC- AB & Jose, it’s as Nilanka would say- illogical (Spock voice).

            To rebuild is to ‘blow it all up’ and ‘start anew’ building around ie DD, Ed, Amir, JB, JJ, Val & whatever you get in exchange for AB & JC.

            It’s more of BC (aka Let Them Eat Cake) pissing on fans and calling it rainwater, shitting on fans and calling it TBone steak- the Rap’s President/GM has no clothes!

          • Auntjemima

            trade our best player for the sake of trading him?…thankfully you have no say in this matter other then bitching and crying on web blogs. go support another damn team dummy. bargs aint going nowhere and im sick of you fake raptor fans and your blatant stupidity.

            • sleepz

              Fake Raptor fans? Trade our best player? Go support another team?lol

              I’ve been following Raps since day 1 and not going anywhere so you should try and get used to me.You don’t have to respond or read my comments. Stupidity to me is more along the lines of being upset at me for not blindly supporting a ball player thats not that good. If he’s the best player on the team there are big problems Auntie.

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          Not until both AB & JC are traded away then I would concede the rebuild propaganda as being legit- actions speak louder than words.

          • Nilanka15

            I’m working under the impression that Bargnani will be moved before next season’s trade deadline.  I can live with Calderon sticking around in a backup role, but I’d prefer his contract traded too.
            As for the current state of the team, what would you currently call it if we’re not “rebuilding”?  We’re certainly not in “win now” mode.

            • Statement

              I hope Bargs goes,

              I won’t be able to fully trust B.C. until he divorces himself from Bargnani.  Calderon can stay, though.  I fear that Bargs is going to take minutes from Ed Davis and Amir Johnson, which would be unbelievably stupid, IMHO.

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

              We are currently in a ‘WTF’ mode as in Bargnani is a PF not a Center and BC is (publicly) building the team around him- WTF?lol

        • points

          we still have calderon and bargs!

      • points

        tot dad guilty of lying to raptors fans

    • points

      tyson chandler

  • RapthoseLeafs

    [ “July 9 2008: Traded guard TJ Ford, forward Maceo Baston,
    center Radoslav Nesterovic and the draft rights to center Roy Hibbert
    to the Indiana Pacers for forward Jermaine O’Neal and the draft rights
    to center Nathan Jawai.” …. Grade: F … Team impact: Very negative. ]

    Looking at this from another perspective, one could say the impact was positive. The resulting fall-out of this trade, saw Bosh leave. And as I’ve said before – along with many others – this team was destined for mediocrity, as long as CB was absorbing a large chunk of the payroll.

    Acquiring Hedo was a flaw in team strategy – with 2 PG’s (Jack & Calderon) needing more court time, and Turk’s strength being a facilitator (as demonstrated by the Orlando play-off run). Odd part is, this past season was more conducive to what BC had in store when he acquired Hedo. Jarrett Jack should’ve been a Jarryd Bayless instead (with Turk in the fold).  Add to the fact / belief that Jarrett was brought in to solidify Bosh staying with the team, and one can’t help but see the irony to all this. Jack & Hedo were a function of “saving” CB, yet their very presence (together) precluded this being a successful trio.

    IMO, Colangelo’s biggest trade mistake was the one he didn’t make – moving Bosh for what would’ve been a great return. Of course that takes balls – big Cojones – and in this world of Raptor fans, I can only imagine the “anger” that would’ve been generated. .

  • Sheptor

    Good piece Arse..from another fellow Arsenal fan. However you should have provided two grades. One for how the trade looked when it was made, and one for how it turned out based on the player’s fit/performance. In the case of Hedo you gave the trade an F. AT the time this was a pretty sweet deal for the Raptors. A legitimate starting SF who by all means seemed happy to be there in the beginning (could have been the money as to why he was happy) and a likely candidate to form team chemistry. Nobody could have predicted “Ball!” and Pizza Pizza, or a lack of production. Humphries showed a lot of hustle and the odd great rbing game, but nobody would predict a top 5 rebounder. I would have gave the Jermaine O’Neal to Miami trade an F. It was very unlikely Marion was going to stay and Jamario Moon should not have left (much better than Weems imo, and yes I know it was a different deal) the deal as you said was done too soon. Overall BC has always tried to wheel and deal his way to his old 47-35 form  but all his moves blow up in his face, however many of these trades AT the time were very good. Belinelli was highly regarded amongst Raptors fans and was 2 yrs in the league, minutes and Nelly were supposedly his problem and a change of sceneryand the possibility of extended minutes combined with his ol pal Bargs seemed like the perfect recipe to jolt a creative SG who could also handle the ball. It didn’t. Players fault not BC’s. If there wasn’t a lockout right now be sure BC would be brewing up something, and probably still is, and I bet you if he made a trade tmr it would NOW look good. The end result is up to the player’s and coaches to get it done, because honestly I don’t remember too many of BC’s trades where majority of Raptor fans said F*&K!

    Side note: the inability to trade Bosh when he had the chance is the main reason this roster has no assets; in this case I would give his lack of a trade an big F. Other than that though he gets a B based on how the deals looked when they were done.

  • Irene Earl

    The Reggie trade is a tale of two seasons – I would have rated an F after the 2009-10 season – Reggie was horrible (I realize he was coming of an injury however my recollection was huge swings in scores in a few minutes of RE playing – 10 point leads would become 10 point deficits in a 4 or 5 min ute span)

    of course 2010-11 was a completely different story … 

  • Haaa

    Colangelo’s best trade will be bargnani. 

  • Alexand

    The best value for AB could easily be after the lockout is settled to a team 1 player away from a potential championship.  Otherwise AB may look really good with Val. if he develops well.  Val looks like a good draft pick because he could be happy and productive in Toronto for 10+ years compared to players who will probably only be good for 5 years or want to leave Toronto.  BC is reasonable IMO since most of moves seemed to have a decent chance to work really well at the time. If Raps get a good player in 2012 draft they could be a good team in 2012-13.

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      AB’s BYC contract tag is no longer (expired June 30th) so if BC were to trade AB he could get full value for him now.

      But I get the gut feeling that BC will lose his Rap’s job before he trades AB away especially with all this AB is a PF nonsense he’s trying to spin onto Rap’s fans.

      • Fantadig

        ab is head and shoulders better then every other player on this team…lol@the smear campaign by dumbfukwads….i cant wait to see you lame basturds posts and the disappointment yall will share if this team under casey starts playing like one and winning….what then. u dumb basturds will be all sad and upset if its a playoff team because bargs is still on the team?…fake ass raptor fans.

        • Nilanka15

          That’s quite an imagination you’ve got there…

        • Statement

          Why is it that the Bargs fans on this site (with the exception of a few) have an IQ under 80?

          • RapthoseLeafs

            hey … dats naught fare

          • RapthoseLeafs

            Dear Ms Statement,

            Your 1st mistake is in allowing Fantadig to pull your chain.

            Your 2nd mistake is to suggest that most Andrea fans have low IQ. According to this site   http://iq-test.learninginfo.org/iq04.htm …. your 80 IQ barrier for Bargnani fans might suggest only 8.9% of fans are supportive of him. Even with the “exceptional” few, that total would still be under 10%.

            Now I don’t have the advanced metrics in front of me (Dave Berry didn’t return my calls), or even the WMO (Win Me Over) numbers for Andrea – mostly cause I couldn’t give a f**k – but based on some of the “scientific” polls in RaptorLand, I believe the “like” number is significantly higher than 10%. Maybe RR could use that in their next poll – “Do you like or hate Bargnani ? “. At least we’ll get right to the point, and be able to understand how tainted the opinions are.

            Anyways, thanks for listening and allowing me to defend Bargnani fans …. including those sluggish minded types that are interfering with intelligent thought.


  • Malefax

    I guess I should have expected that this post would be boo-hoo type bullshit instead of actual analysis, but somehow I’m still disappointed.

    Anyway, my humble suggestion is that F’s should be reserved for trades that were actually incompetent, as opposed to risks that didn’t pan out. In particular, just because Turkoglu was a huge disappointment doesn’t mean the trade was bad. Look at what we gave up… The idea was clearly to build the best team possible around Bosh. It didn’t work, but there have been far worse plans

    • Theswirsky

      so if you take a risk and fail, its somehow better than failing in general?  Wish that worked in real life:

      “sorry BMO, I took a risk and spent that loan on lottery tickets.  Any chance I can get some loan forgiveness?” 

      “look what we gave up”

      cap space? dignity? Respect?  defense?

      “The idea was clearly to build the best team possible around Bosh. It didn’t work, but there have been far worse plans”

      unfortunately there were also much better plans which included not building around Bosh and trading Bosh.

      • Malefax

        Yeah, actually the difference between a good risk that didnt pan out vs. a stupid decision is pretty important in business.

        And if you think there were better plans involving trading Bosh, I think you’re mistaking GM’s for psychics. But whatever. Obviously your genius long foresaw how Bosh could have been traded for Dwight howard and deron williams, and if Colangelo hadn’t screwed everything up we should have been champions by now.

        • Theswirsky

          “Obviously your genius long foresaw how Bosh could have been traded for Dwight howard and deron williams, and if Colangelo hadn’t screwed everything up we should have been champions by now. ”

          not being so blind as to think Bosh was worth building around hardly makes me a genius.  But thank you none the less.

  • kaine

    belinelli has gone to the playoffs this year. 80 games played, 69 as a starter, 25 minutes per game, 10,4 point, 41.4% form 3 point range.
    not a great player, but a solid role player in a playoff team.
    a better player than weems, in my opinion.

    • Nilanka15

      You don’t think Weems can put up similar numbers playing next to Chris Paul?

      I’m no Weems fan, but I’m just saying that Paul makes EVERYONE look better than they really are.  Same with Nash.

      • kaine

        no I don’t think that weems can make ths numbers. hasn’ t enough range, and i don’t like his handles. marco beat some competition to earn his starting spot. still, he is a bench player mostly. a tiny tiny tiny tiny ginobili. he could be usuful, especially at the 1 position because he is a fair distributor. he could have helped this year…we gave him away too soon, for nothing.

      • Guest

        Paul’s no miracle worker. Ariza is still shitty as ever on offense.

  • TH

    Shawn Marion was a free agent. should be separated from Turkoglu, who was the most obvious red flag of all time.

    Too bad Colangelo turned down TJ ford straight up for Gerald Wallace………

    • kaine

      really? are you serious?
      is he really THAT dumb?

  • Barq’s

    I remember I played with Patrick O’Bryant at Call of Duty on the Xbox. Thats how much he cared about practicing basketball. 😐