This series of trade reviews, like all good things in life, has come to an end.

Draft 2010: Traded a future second-round pick and cash to the Dallas Mavericks for the draft rights to center Solomon Alabi.

Alabi was touted as a possible first rounder before falling out of the top 30. Nabbing him at #50 was considered a steal on draft day, but the latest evidence suggests he’s anything but. Reports this summer have him getting stronger, more confident, and more agile, so it’s best to delay the verdict on this trade till a later date. Judging by what we’ve seen of Alabi so far, he’s been disappointing. In the D-League, where he’s supposed to impose, if not dominate, he looked rather uninterested and had no-name players get the better of him. He’s had three stints down there, and every time he’s come up to the big club, he’s looked the same.
Grade: B-
Team impact: None.

July 9 2010: Signed forward Chris Bosh and traded him to the Miami Heat for two first-round picks in 2011 and a trade exception.

Saying that Bryan Colangelo should have traded Chris Bosh at the deadline or in the previous summer (instead of pairing him with Turkoglu) is not revisionist history. It was an option that Colangelo ignored in the hopes that Bosh would sign an extension. The team sucked, the plan backfired, and Bosh was lost for nothing. Yes, for nothing. Nine million of the TPE will be unused, and that was the main selling point at the time of the trade. One of the two first round picks was already the Raptors’ (from the O’Neal deal), and seeing how Miami will be very good for the foreseeable future, the other pick will be between 27-30. Even at the deadline when it became increasingly apparent that Bosh was going to leave, Colangelo couldn’t trade him and he should be held accountable for that, it’s a main reason we haven’t received a proper asset for Bosh. The perception when Vince Carter was traded was that he was on the decline, and yet Babcock managed to get expiring contracts and two first rounders for him (sure, it got wasted on Joey Graham and the other was traded), setting the table for Colangelo. Surely, we’re expected to hold Colangelo to higher standards than Babcock.
Grade: D
Team impact: Negative.

July 14 2010: Traded forward Hedo Turkoglu to the Phoenix Suns for guard Leandro Barbosa and center Dwayne Jones.

Ignore the unfortunate signing of Hedo Turkoglu for a second, this trade in a vaccuum is probably one of the best trades the Raptors have ever pulled. This is what I wrote on the day of the trade: “The total savings for the Raptors is $29.3M, but more importantly, we got rid of a player that was just not a good fit. His defense was bad, his offense was extremely perimeter oriented, his attitude was poor and his contract was terrible. It doesn’t matter if Barbosa comes in and rides the pine behind Marcus Banks for 82 games, this is still a good deal!””
Grade: A
Team impact: Very positive.

July 28 2010: Traded a 2015 protected second-round pick to the Houston Rockets for center David Andersen and cash considerations.

Anderson was a good find by Colangelo and was fitting in well as a limited-minutes player; I was a little sad to see him go, I’d much rather have a guy like that than Alexis Ajinca. In his brief time here, he played hard, left an impression and I remember him giving Amare Stoudemire a killer elbow.
Grade: B
Team impact: Very slightly positive.

August 11 2010: Traded guard Marco Belinelli to the New Orleans Hornets for forward Julian Wright.

Ouch. The Raptors gave up on Belinelli after one season! This is a lot like my infatuation with Toronto FC, always wanted a football team in Toronto but when I finally got to see one up-close, realized how terrible the quality was. If Julian Wright had a jumper and had a lower qualifying offer, I’d give this a B. Belinelli wasn’t exactly a bad player, he was being asked to be a scorer off the bench in the vein of Mike Miller or O.J Mayo, problem was that he’s not that good. He’s a point-forwardish (I know he’s only 6’5″) role player whose specialty is spot-up shooting, in Toronto he was throwing up off-balance one-legged fadeaways and when one of them finally went in, Leo Rautins ate it up. I’ll say the team impact was negative because Julian Wright’s defense was never put to use consistently, and the Raptors missed the three-point shooting Belinelli brought.
Grade: C-
Team impact: Negative.

November 20 2010: Traded guards Jarrett Jack and Marcus Banks and center David Andersen to the New Orleans Hornets for guard Jerryd Bayless and forward Peja Stojakovic.

This depends on how good/bad Jerryd Bayless turns out to be. Whatever happens there, he can’t be any worse than Jarrett Jack as he’s essentially the same player with slightly better defense. Some expiring contracts in this one as well which evened things out, and I got to see my dream come true when Peja suited up for the Raptors. David Anderson was missed, as I already said, would rather have him than Alexis.
Grade: B
Team impact: Positive.

January 24 2011: Traded the draft rights to forward Giorgos Printezis to the Dallas Mavericks for center Alexis Ajinca

This trade didn’t improve or make the team any worse, what it did is make it more annoying, which to me is a negative.
Grade: Boring.
Team impact: Slightly negative

February 22 2011: Traded a first-round pick to the Chicago Bulls for forward James Johnson.

We could have had local boy Cory Joseph who was drafted by the Spurs. If it wasn’t the Spurs that drafted him I’d be OK, but it was the damn Spurs who know what they’re doing late in the round. I have to say it’s had a positive impact, though, we’ve been able to scrutinize and evaluate a player who was considered to have potential at one time. All this on the cheap in a development year, can’t go wrong with that. Unless of course, Joseph turns out to be a find.
Grade: C+
Team impact: Slightly positive.

Believe it or not, I filled three days of summer with this nonsense. Here’s the first and second part.

  • Matt52

    I disagree on Bosh.  Raps were 5th heading in to all-star game.  He would not sign an extension with anyone therefore Raps were very limited.  He gave statements he wanted to be the man, franchise player, yada yada.  Look what happened.  Even Carmelo said, “I’m not Chris Bosh.”

    I most definitely agree it would have been nice to get more for him but the Raps are in a better place without him – with him we’d be limited to mediocrity at best, without him hopefully the draft gods bless us in 2012.

    • Balls of Steel

      I see it as Bosh’s shenanigans yielded us Jonas Valanciunas.

      • Star_bury

        The jury’s gonna have to deliberate for a few years before we know whether Jonas makes up for for Bosh’s shenanigans though…

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        Not true, as the Rap’s 1st round draft pick in the JO deal was apparently Lottery protected until 2015 so Rap’s would have had their 1st round pick this season nonetheless so Val is not apart of the CB deal afterall.

        I thought Va l was a part of the CB equation as well until I found out about the Lottery protection of the traded draft pick was until 2015.

    • Alec

      Yes by the trade deadline it was difficult to see whether Bosh would leave
      But there was an awesome offer on the table from Houston. If I recall it was Scola, Brooks (who at the time was super player), several picks and other players/expirings

      S&T to Miami… we get Johnson, Ajinca and some capspace. Meh. At least we didn’t get Beasley.

      • Matt52

        Was that before the trade deadline or over the summer?  I thought it was summer.  The issue though is it didn’t matter because Houston weren’t making the trade without an extension at the trade deadline (which he wouldn’t do) and in the summer as a free agent a sign and trade needed Bosh’s agreement – and we know how that worked out.

        • mountio

          Exactly .. NO ONE, including Houston was gonig to trade for Bosh unless they knew they go the extension. And, as we see how things played out, it certainly looks like he was going to Miami all along .. so our options were pretty much the null set. I know it sucks to see him leave and we essentially got nothing for him .. but we have to be realistic with what our options were at the time. Overlay that with the fact we were somewhat competing, and I think its hard to fault BC for keeping him. If somebody gave him a great (even good) offer .. I think he takes it… but it just wasnt out there.

          • steve___

            The thing people keep forgetting is there was *no* precedence for a max player to take less than the gauranteed maximum, which requires a sign and trade.  Sure there is always a chance it could happen but it was like RFA’s in hockey.  An offer sheet was never tendered (until recent years — and even then they are rare).  Now that it has happened some GM’s are deciding it’s too risky to hold on to their max player going into the final year (eg Utah with Williams) and are deciding to look into trades.  In my opinion, I don’t think hindsight should be used on Bryan for this deal.

          • Alucart999

            For what it’s worth, he’s a rumor suggesting that the Rockets were willing to trade for Bosh without an extension in place.


            • mountio

              Fair point .. I remember this when it happened. When push came to shove Im not sure they do it without “strong reassurances” or actual extension .. but I agree, we would have been crazy to not take this if it was actually offered

  • Ihatehaters

    Ya BC didn’t get much for Bosh, but what leveraged did he have? Bosh was already condo-shopping in South Beach – the deal was done. What could BC do? Threaten not to sign-and-trade? Gets him even less than what he got. You may fault him for not trading Bosh sooner (which is ridiculous I think, considering most believed that Bosh was coming back – even Sonny Weems said he thought Bosh would re-sign), but I don’t think you can compare this trade to the Vince trade. Vince was under contract and Babcock had all the time in the world to shop him around and start a bidding war. Now THAT was a bad trade!

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      BC did try to force CB onto a team offering more in return than the Heat but CB threaten to sign with the Heat outright leaving BC with nothing so BC had to trade CB to Miami.

      I knew CB wasn’t coming back as soon as  I seen how his teammates reacted to Paul Pierce kneeing him in the groin and no one stood up for CB nor checked on him as he lay on the floor withering in pain.

      As soon as BC signed AB to that 5 year 50 million dollar extension I knew CB was gone- who wants to play next to AB for the next 5 years- besides Reggie?lol

      BC should have used all his NBA GM experience to move CB but he fucked up with out his daddy beside him to guide him.

      If BC would have gotten a star level type of player in return for CB then the Rap’s wouldn’t be in the NBA Lottery quagmire paradigm I see in their near future as BC builds the team around AB.

      • Ihatehaters

        You didn’t “know” he wasn’t coming back, don’t lie.

        • Bobbert

          No, he says what he means- str8 up

          He clearly knew when Bargnani signed the extension, then he forgot, then knew it all over again when the thing with Paul Pierce happened.

          • SuperJesusMan

            I don’t think he forgot.. was probably just distracted by that future NBA Lottery quagmire paradigm.

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          The writing was on the wall like graffiti it’s not my fault that you could read it…..

  • Nd

    Colangelo was in favour of trading Bosh – even before that year’s deadline … he was vetoed.

    Trading Bosh, who could have walked away for nothing, and getting Miami’s pick (which gave us James Johnson, potentially our SF of the future), and our pick back – which gave us a monster and our future C Jonas Valanciunas … that’s a good trade.

    $126M of dead weight, for a fresh start and two younger pieces for the future core. A+

    • Bendit

      BC’s primary mistake re Bosh imv, was not recognizing that CB was not a franchise type player (someone to go all in with/build around). Your first sentence implies this was true. How do you know he was vetoed?

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        BC’s primary mistake was pairing CB with AB (drafting AB over Aldridge) we all know can see that CB was playing with another finesse PF like himself, BC would have been better off trading AB for a center to pair next to CB AND/or an all star type of wing player but BC never did he only gave CB a roster full of NBA retreads to lead.

    • Theswirsky

      teh return of the pick did not net this team Jonas.  It was lottery protected.

      • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

        I though that I read that the Lottery protection on that draft pick that BC traded to Miami in the JO deal had expired for the 2011 draft?

        Anyone know for certain?

        • cesco

          It was lottery protected till 2014 , Miami would have got the pick in 2015 if they did not get it before then .

    • Sek99

      Jesus. Ok, people need to cool it with JV. This guy is not Dwight Howard. I don’t know how good he’ll be or not, but there is an absurd amount of optimism that this guy is going to rescue our franchise. Come on. It’s possible, but people need to understand that just because he had a good 19 and UNDER tournament doesn’t mean he’s gonna rock people in the NBA. Hell, he said himself he plays like Chris Bosh. Remember when we tried pairing Bosh and Bargnani? Ya, it didn’t work out. I know that he may be way better, or just a way different player than Bosh, but I’m just showing everyone the other side opposed to this absurd amount of optimism like we just got Hakeem Olujawon in his prime.

      • Nilanka15

        I’m not sure if I’ve seen Olajuwan levels of optimism. 

        But I have seen a player who received plenty of undeserved criticism on draft night, and has surprisingly turned a lot of heads during the U19 tourney.  It’s far better that Valanciunas dominated his competition, rather than playing down to his competition.  It’s what good players do.

        I agree that it’s still too early to conclude anything either way, but the cautious optimism (so far) is perfectly justified IMO.

        • Sek99

          I get what you’re saying, but I don’t see cautious optimism from most people. I see unbridled hope. A lot of people are eating up what the Raptors PR is pushing, and that makes me kind of angry because then the orginization realizes that it can easily influence the public to fall in love with whatever they do, therefore getting ride of some of the accountability that comes with a more cautious/less optimistic fanbase.

          • Kevin Oppella

            I’m happy for the fact that JV is a true and trained centre. Something that the NBA doesn’t have a lot of. But when he get across the pond he’ll definitely have some “NBA upgrading” to do. Just like 90% of draft picks every year.

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

              Casey called Val a PF and a Center on draft night.

              Casey said that Val is a PF now that they hope will grow into a starting NBA center but it will take time to develop him or something to that effect.

              • Nilanka15

                Moral of the story: In today’s game, there really isn’t much difference between a PF and C.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  Tell that to AB & BC who are trying to fool the cash paying Rap’s fans by saying that AB is a PF not a Center and giving him another chance after his 5 year development lease ran its course ala BC in 2006.

                  If it really took BC 5 years to see that AB is not a Center- then his talent evaluation is shot or BC is just pulling another fast one over on fans whom he believes are collectively ignorant to the intricacies of basketball.

                • Nilanka15

                  I’m holding out hope** that all this “Bargnani is a PF” nonsense is just a desperate tactical move on Colangelo’s part to fool some poor sap of an executive that it was the system’s fault Bargnani was a defensive pylon, and not an innate individual problem.

                  **If Bargnani ISN’T traded by next year’s deadline, than I’ll join you in your quest to dethrone Colangelo (no joke).

                  But until then, I’ll be happy to wear the ‘Stuck on Stupid’ badge for the day 😛

                • sleepz

                  If it isn’t a tactical move and he’s for real, that 2 year extension BC just inked is 3 years too long! lol

          • Bendit

            Maybe I missed it…can you link to some specific Raptor org. PR statements during/after the U19 tournament. I recall that BC was asked about JV’s performance and begged off citing the lockout.

            • Sek99

              I didn’t mean the tournament, just in general. Every single one of the guys on Raptors TV and guys like Doug Smith were all pushing JV. I understand that is there job, but they don’t even give a fair assessment. They just focus solely on the positives and when the media does that, it makes me upset because the only time you actually hear actual criticism of the Raptors in the mainstream by people who have a major media outlet is Feschuk’s once a month column in the star.

              • Nilanka15

                To be fair, this applies to everything Raptor-related, not just Valanciunas.

              • Alucart999

                Sek99: Not true. Both Chisolm and Armstrong have criticized (albeit in a rather subtle way) moves made by Colangelo and AB’s development. The media may have had a man-crush on Colangelo when he first got here, but the lustre has clearly worn off and the media seem pretty quick to critically analyse each and every move that he makes now. Doug Smith is probably the only guy who is still unreasonably positive about all things BC. 

      • tonious35

        I see JonasV right now as an Andris Biedrins with a 80% FT rate and before signing the extension.

        • Alucart999

          Which is to say, he’s not bad and probably a pretty good pick given the other options.

      • Poe

        Does a franchise in this state need any more pessimism? Let us be.

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      Looks like you drank that ‘126 million dead weight’ kool aid comment of BC’s draft night.lmfao

      BC tried to give CB 126 million and CB turned it down.

      It’s sad, and a sign of BC’s character, that he’s still taking pot shots at CB in the media in order to pacify the fan base on draft night.

  • Riego

    Nice reading!! Has been funny to remember some of this trades, the summer is sooooo boring :)

    Some Grade to sum up BC movements??

  • Quirk

    Trading Bosh for Jonas Valanciunas and James Johnson and the financial flexibility to acquire Bayless is hardly nothing. 

    Nobody other than Miami would have trading anything for a rent-a-player with no intention of signing any extension. And given that it was not even in Miami’s interest to do the trade, since it just meant they had to pay Bosh more that they could have otherwise, I’d say that’s a great trade. 

    Some trades didn’t work out, but it’s meaningless nonsense to call these bad trades in hindsight. 

    The only bad trade BC has made was the Belinelli trade, and my feeling is that he made that trade for Marco’s benefit, since he was not part of the teams future. 

    Smart GMs try to keep good relations with players and other GMs, this pays off in the long run. Even if most fans think that pulling of swindles is the mark of a good GM, bad blood will come back to haunt you, it’s an extremely small league. 

    Toronto is extremely lucky to have a widely respected and well connected GM. 

    People need to remember that the NBA is a league where half the championships in it’s history have been won by the same two teams. 

    Colangelo has a tough job, fans think that all it takes is a supersmart GM to pull off some draft, trade and sign miracles. I simply don’t work that way. 

    There are no shortcuts, BC is as good as it gets.

    • Nilanka15

      “Some trades didn’t work out, but it’s meaningless nonsense to call these bad trades in hindsight.”

      I don’t understand this reasoning.  If you don’t evaluate trades based on hindsight, how do you evaluate trades?  The value of a trade is determined by how it impacts the team, and that conclusion cannot be drawn until meaningful games are played following the trade.

      Does Roger Ebert review movies before he sees them?

      • Quirk

        You can say in in hindsight that a trade didn’t work out, but to “grade” it as a bad trade, implies that the GM who made it performed badly. To say this requires that the grade be based on what could have been reasonable possible and known at the time.

        Ebert is a reviewer. A better analogy would be a producer who needs to dedicate the resources to make the movie before he sees it.

        • Theswirsky

          “but to “grade” it as a bad trade, implies that the GM who made it performed badly”

          its not implied.  Its actually stating it. Which BC has.

          • Quirk

            That’s your opinion, yes. My opinion is that you are wrong.

            • Theswirsky

              the Raptors losing record says otherwise

              • Quirk

                It is your opinion that the performance of the GM is the reason for the losing record, I don’t agree with that.

                • Theswirsky

                  umm so what is the reason then?

                  the players the GM brings in?

                  the coaches the GM selects?

                  the staff the GM hires?

                  the magical fairies who work as the hand of the basketball gods?

                • Quirk

                  It’s a tough league, things don’t always work out. Profesional sports in general is very competitive. Athletes, teams, coaches and executives can perform very well and still not win. Fans believe in magic, like GMs that can pull off miracles, but it’s not that simple.

                  Why have 2 teams won 1/2 the championships in league history? Brilliant GMs? I doubt it.In any case, the truth remains that it is not a fact that BC performed Badly, just your opinion. Insisting it is a fact is not convincing. And with regard to the trades, as I said, I thought each one had sound reasoning behind it when it was made, and think the GM performed very well in making them, sometimes in rather complex circumstances. That’s my opinion.

                • Theswirsky

                  “the truth remains that it is not a fact that BC performed Badly”

                  nor it is a fact that he performed well or average.

                  Thats why we turn to his record.

                • Alucart999

                  You only have so many ways to evaluate a GM, and the best (as unfair as it sometimes may be) way is to look at the finished result in hindsight. If all it takes to appease you is to make sure that behind each move is some sound reasoning, then heck you or I could go manage this team. 
                  The fact of the matter is, this league is results-based, and in this case the results speak for themselves. He never corrected the CB4/AB problem or the PG problem. He made a number of colossal errors in free agency (Kapono, JJ, Hedo). He overpaid a few of our own free agents (Jose, Bargnani). He squandered numerous resources trying to rectify the comedy of errors that resulted in Hedo.Aside from Ed Davis and JV, there are no others on the team that can be considered cornerstones. And neither of those guys project as a superstar that is becoming a prerequisite for championships. Some  may fit as nice roleplayers (e.g. Amir Johnson, Barbosa, Bargnani off the bench and making half of what he does, DeRozan as a mid-level guy role-player, Calderon off the bench making half [or less] of what he does), but they’re all highly replaceable and are either not that good and/or overpaid.So, not that it’s worth anything, but my “opinion” is that BC has really messed up. He started with a pretty good situation with cap space, a bright young star, the first overall pick, and he just hasn’t been able to make it work. Yes, executives can do a great job and still not produce positive results – unfortunately, history just doesn’t support that conclusion. He’s had two bad breaks (injuries to TJ and Garbajosa) and he’s had several years to recover from that.

        • Nilanka15

          But Arse, as well as many fans (myself included), are “reviewers”.  We judge transactions based on performance. 

          There aren’t too many people who are concerned about a movie producer’s allocation of resources.  Movie-goers only care if the movie was any good, which can only be determined after watching the movie. 

          Similarly, most fans are only concerned about how the trade impacted the team, not what hurdles a GM had to go through to make the trade.  Hindsight is a must when evaluating trades.

          • barenakedman

            Would you consider the drafting of Jonas a good move? 
            In hindsight a couple of years down the road we might be castigating BC while at the moment most think he did a good job by selecting the BPA. 
            I think it’s the same with a trade. Once the players move into the new environment they could perform much better or worse than what was expected when the deal was made.  
            So is the GM to be evaluated on how things work out in the future even though things beyond his control such as injuries can make a deal look bad?
            Then again if history shows a high percentage of trades not working out I guess that is something the GM has to wear.

            • TH

              A good example is Oden. He was a good pick, but he got injured. So you can’t just say he was a “bust” and thats the whole story. He didn’t perform, but the DECISION was good.

              • Nilanka15

                Would anyone consider Bowie over Jordan a good decision?  If we take away hindsight, Bowie was the best pick in that draft.  It makes no sense.

                • barenakedman

                  Actually Olajuwon was the #1 pick and the best pick in that draft if we take away hindsight. Bowie was the best decision for the Trailblazers considering they didn’t have a crystal ball and the Bulls if drafting second would also have chosen Bowie. The Bulls tried  to trade their #3 pick for a center but were unsuccessful and ended up picking Jordan.   

                • Nilanka15

                  But is there any point in referring to the Bowie pick a “good pick” without drawing on obvious hindsight?

                  Without hindsight, trading Nowitzki for Robert Traylor was a good trade for Milwaukee.

                • barenakedman

                  Sometimes a decision is made, acted upon and is considered sound at the time but turns out to be much better for the other team for a myriad of reasons. I don’t think it’s something that should be held against the GM. If he can obtain what most informed managers think are equal or better assets for who he is trading at the time, that I would think is the criteria to be judged on.   

                • Theswirsky

                  Q: What GM has ever made a decision that he felt could only turn out to be bad for their team? 

                  A: None.  All the decisions they make a GM feels could benifit a team.

                  So using the argument that “it can’t be considered a bad idea now if it was considered a good idea at the time” every GM to ever run a team actually did a good job.  The history of basketball states much differently.

                  (by the way the Hedo, JO, and Bosh were hardly ‘sound’ decisions at that time.  JO was a huge risk after missing 2 years due to a serious injury.  Hedo was a huge risk due to his cost, age, lack of D, fit and most successful seasons being matched up with Dwight.  Building around and not trading Bosh years earlier was in and of itself a huge risk.  These aren’t trading Hoffa for Lebron James scenarios…. these were high risk scenarios that failed)

            • Nilanka15

              Obviously, there are exceptions to every rule.  No GM can predict injuries (unless a player is known to be “injury-prone”).  I would never use unexpected injuries when evaluating picks/trades.

              But I still stand by the idea that you need hindsight when evaluating trades.  Otherwise, every single transaction ever completed in the NBA would be a “good move” in someone’s eyes.  It’s far too subjective, and thus pointless to even discuss it.  The only true measure is how the move affected the team in the W-L columns.

          • Quirk

            Sure, you can “review” how the trades turned out, but if this is your only criteria for evaluating the GM then your evaluation is likely to be wrong. Especially if what you are trying to evaluate is how he will perform with regard to current or future transactions, which is all that maters.

            • Nilanka15

              This discussion was about the relevance of using hindsight to evaluate trades, not about using trades as “the only criteria for evaluating GMs”.

              • Quirk

                This thread is in response to my comment. My point has been the same throughout.

              • Raptoronto

                And this is why hindsight is tricky…it changes.  In three years if Val, Bayless, JJ and whoever we land with the extra cap space left from the Bosh transaction turn into legit starters or even one becomes an all-star caliber player, this “F” grade suddenly turns into an “A”.  Will you then change your tune and say it was a great trade?  In hindsight, you would have to say yes.


                • Theswirsky

                  the Bosh trade did in no way net this team Val

                  the Bosh trade was only partially responsible for netting Bayless (jarret jack and Andersen had nothing to do with the Bosh deal)

                  the Bosh trade did net the team JJ, but ONLY after a 2nd trade.

                  What the Bosh trade did net the Raps is a TPE that was almost entirely unused, a pick back that they hadn’t lost yet, and a later 1st round pick (which was then turned into JJ),

                • Quirk

                  The pick they got was used to draft Val, since it was there own protected pick you can insist that they would have drafted Val since the pick was protected, but then they sill would owe miami a future draft pick, which eventually becomes unprotected. In any case, the trade yielded a high draft pick. You could instead wait until the pick could have been used or became unprotected to see what the “real” value. It will remain not nothing.

                • Theswirsky

                  “but then they sill would owe miami a future draft pick, which eventually becomes unprotected”

                  which would NOT be Val.  Hence the Bosh trade in NO WAY netted Val.

                • Nilanka15

                  I agree with Theswirsky on this one.  There are too many degrees of seperation between Val, Bayless and J.Johnson to conclude anything from the Bosh trade. 

                  Hypothetically speaking, had we traded Bosh prior to his contract expiring, it’s likely we would’ve got some slightly better players in return, who might’ve helped us win more than 22 games last year…thus costing us a top 5 pick…thus ruining our opportunity to draft Valanciunas.

                  As you can see, it’s difficult to draw a direct line connecting Bosh and Valanciunas when discussing Colangelo’s abilities as a GM.

    • Sek99

      138-227. That is the Raptors record under Bryan Colangelo. Is that your definition lucky and as good as it gets? Because then my friend, you have VERY low standards.

      • Quirk

        What is the Raptors record under every other GM the team has ever had?

        • Sek99

          So you’re saying that the Raptors have had mainly shit GM’s and have been run poorly (mostly) since there inception? Because if so, I agree. BC isn’t the worst GM, but he certainly hasn’t been good for this team.

          • Quirk

            Another theory is that the NBA is hard league to succeed in, even when you have a good GM. I’m saying compare BC to what others have actually done, not with what you imagine might have been possible.

            • Sek99

              What? I’m not sure what you mean there pal. There’s good and there’s bad. I don’t care if the guy before him was awful, the fact is he is not very good, and a lot of it comes from very poor decision making. When you have two pieces of shit, just because one smells less worse than the other, doesn’t mean I would want to it any more. Same goes for GMs.  Jermaine O’Neal, Hedo and the coddling of Bargnani are the reason we are where we are at this moment in time. These were all very poor gambles by our GM. Logically, this means he is a poor GM. I think he’s good at drafting, but balls at pretty much every other aspect.

              • Quirk

                It’s not a fact, it’s your opinion that he’s not very good. What is a fact is that the team has not done very well under any GM. In your opinion this is due to the performance of the GMs. In my opinion the moves that where made made sense at the time they where made, even if they didn’t work out in the end. The NBA is a tough league to win in. It’s not a fact that these moves where poor gambles, and therefor there is no logical conclusion that he is a poor GM, just your opinion, which you are entitled to. I don’t share your opinion. When Colangelo starts making moves I think are bad moves at the time they are made, not in hindsight, then my opinion would change, this has not happened yet.

                • Sek99

                  If every move he makes ends up being bad in ‘hindshight’ that means he’s bad. Just because he isn’t David Khan doesn’t mean he’s good. It’s hard to win in the NBA, but good GM’s put good teams together and win. If the job is too tough for BC, then fire him. You can’t ever make an excuse for a GM unless there’s a injury or someone drastically underperforms, but even then he should be smarter than us and have more tools available, and be able to tell if they will underperform. 138-227 is a fact, not an opinion. That is the GM’s fault. He’s had 4 seasons to figure things out, and has only made us progressively worse. That is the sign of a BAD GM. And the trades were all gambles. O’Neal had injury problems, and wasn’t worth what we gave. Hedo was another no defense, non-athlete who was supposed to be able to hit big shots and make good decision. We already have a good decision maker in Jose, and he did not deliver on the shots. It was risky. And how can you justify the excuses, year after year, of clearly a failed piece on the Raps in Bargnani? 

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      ‘BC is as good as it gets’- add sugar, water and stir………then consume by the gallon until all Earthly reality is blurred into 1 giant manifestation of BC- our

    • Alucart999

      Don’t say that it’s Bosh for Jonas. Someone “up there” rightly pointed out that our pick to Miami was lottery-protected.

  • Nilanka15

    I agree with some of the posters that we can’t judge Colangelo on the Bosh NON-trade.  Considering the circumstances, we don’t know if Colangelo put out any feelers with other GMs, and whether or not anyone was willing to offer significant parts for a rent-a-player.  In the same way we can’t rip Colangelo for not trading for Rudy Gay this year, we can’t rip him for the Bosh non-trade simply because of all the unknown variables that led to Bosh’s free agency.

    We should stick to critiquing the (tangible) moves Colangelo did make.  Everything else is speculation at best.

    • sleepz

      He’s not judging him for the non-trade of Bosh.

      He is judging him on the trade of Bosh for 2 first round picks (one of which was ours previously) and a TPE.

      • mountio

        And what was the better option? Let him walk for nothing? Taking on Beasley might have been a good gamble (but a gamble none the less for sure!) .. not sure what else he could have done..

        • sleepz

          He let it get to the 12th hour. Take care of your business (the Raptors franchise) before your options are exhausted. He gambled he could bring him back and lost. I don’t blame anyone but the GM for that.

          You don’t have to let him walk if you trade him the season before his free agency. I know, I know but Bosh was going to stay? Would you want him to stay on a max contract knowing that while being a good player is going to be difficult to add more talent beyond him which leads to mediocrity because the Raps don’t spend like the Lakeshow or the Mavs.

          • mountio

            I think youre missing the point. Its not that he was gonig to stay, its precisely the opposite – that he was going to go! (To miami as it turns out). As a result, no one in their right mind would trade anything of value for him.
            The post on the Knicks trade is possible I guess (could you get them to gamble on Bosh hoping to make a power play for LBJ .. maybe) .. but thats about it. A trade to Houston or any other team was simply not happenin, because they knew CB was walking out the door at the end of the year ..

            • sleepz

              I understand the point.

              What I am saying is don’t wait until the year of FA to do something. The year prior to that Bosh could have re-upped but wanted to keep his FA options open. BC should have been exploring options the year before Bosh’s free agency year like Utah recently did with Williams. 

              • mountio

                ok – that is a fair criticism .. its a risky move from a PR perspective (fans all over you for “giving up too early” .. but I certainly agree thats the only way to get value, and would have been the prudent view as Bosh not a franchise player.

                • Ihatehaters

                  Don’t think its a fair criticism, at all. Trading away your best player (2nd best in franchise history) because he MIGHT leave a year later (when he has given no indication that he intends to do so). That would be insanity! Should OKC trade Durant now because its entirely possible that he might leave in 2015?

                • Nilanka15

                  Agreed.  It’s easy to look back and say that trading Bosh was a no-brainer.  But at the time, it made very little sense at all….especially if we’re talking about the 2008-09 season (1 year BEFORE Bosh’s contract was set to expire).

                • mountio

                  Thats a fair point of view also. All Im saying is thats a lot more rational of an arugment than the one that says we should have traded him mid way through his last season (when his value was clearly very low because he wouldnt have signed anywhere).
                  Im not saying I would have traded him with two years left .. but I will at least listen to the argument that if you had the foresight to realize he wasnt going to be a franchise player and got value for him at the time .. that might have been shrewd (not popular, but shrewd)

                • Theswirsky

                  “Should OKC trade Durant now because its entirely possible that he might leave in 2015?”


                  1)Durant is a far superior player to Bosh and actually worth the ‘franchise’ player title. 

                  2) Durant is locked in for 4 years and DIDN’T just turn down an extension offer

                  apples and oranges my man 

                • mountio

                  Agreed .. meant to mention this as well in my post above

                • Ihatehaters

                  True – but you see what I was getting at…

                • Theswirsky

                  I see what you are getting at, but do you see what I was getting at?

                  Bosh may not have guaranteed he was leaving, but he already turned down the opportunity to stay….

                  Bosh was not good enough to build around….

                  … both are risks not worth taking.  He should have been traded.  To say it would have been insanity to trade him, I think, is wrong.  To me it was a completely unneccessary risk to keep him.

            • Sek99

              It wasn’t super obvious that he was a lock to leave. He was like a 16-year old girl, sending mixed messages. He was also the face of the team and the ‘franchise’ player. Trading him would have irked many fans and needed to get what seemed like good value at the time, and if he had, I guarantee that people on this site would complain that we traded him too early. Him leaving is good for the team overall and in the future, so BC can’t really be blamed. 

              • sleepz

                Hey, if BC said that he’s thankful that he didn’t have the $126 million dollar handcuffs then he should have been very open to trading him because thats what it was going to boil down to come contract time.

                If you didn’t want to pay him max or didn’t view him as that type of player as a GM why wouldn’t you have traded him? It doesn’t matter what we the fans think, as a GM it’s always about the best interest of the franchsie moving forward. BC had no problem selecting a SF/PF #1 overall, play him at the 5 spot and give him unearned minutes for 4 years and then turnaround and say he’s a PF. He didn’t worry about the fans reaction then so why worry about it if he didn’t think that Bosh was worth the coin?

                • Sek99

                  Because the fan reaction would have been awful. Look at Bargnani hate, like you referenced. Can you imagine the hate that he would have received if we went into the all-star break having traded Bosh when we were doing very well at that point? Even picking JV, which had a backlash from many different fans, wouldn’t have been as bad. And like I said, we don’t know the offers, and no team would trade for a rent-a-player.

      • Ihatehaters

        2 first round picks from a team that really has no incentive to deal with you other than making the guy they just took from you slightly more happy (and, c’mon… the way Bosh was making googly-eyes at Wade, he was going to MIA whether he got the sign-and-trade top-up or not) plus a huge TPE seems like a damn good trade to me.

    • Theswirsky

      Bosh should have been traded after he initially turned down an extension offer (in 2008) and stated he was planning on testing the markets in 2010.  He could have also been traded during the failed  season of 2008/09 or in the offseason of 2009 (instead of chasing down Hedo and just compounding a mistake).

      After that there really was little choice but to stay the course unless someone wanted a rental player.

      The reality is it NEVER should have gotten as far as it did.  Poor risk management…. but thats BC’s forte.  Taking risks and failing.

      • Nilanka15

        Ignoring the envitable outcome, and putting myself in Colangelo’s shoes back in 2009, I would argue that trading Bosh would’ve been the far riskier play.  Keeping Bosh and attempting to surround him with suitable pieces was much less of a gamble (it just so happened that the players Colangelo chose were poor fits).

        Had Colangelo replaced Triano back then, and instead of Hedo, had he managed to trade for Iguodala and Tyson Chandler type players, we could’ve been looking at a 50 win team.  Risk management wasn’t Colangelo’s biggest problem.  It was his inability to find reliable complimentary players.

  • Raps Loyalist

    Raps should have traded Bosh to NY for D. Lee, W. Chandler, and D. Gallo…Knicks would have done it because they were desperate for an all-star and know that nobody ever turns there back on NY after playing in the Garden so the extension thing wasn’t a prob for them. 

    Bosh was classic good stats on a bad team guy.  Facts are that he is an average defender and rebounder. He only gets the easy rebounds never wants to bang down low. The only way he could ever be a big-time player on a great team is if he has a true tough-minded defensive center next to him.

    He should have gone to Chicago and played next to Jo Noah. Bet he regrets going to Miami cause he gets no credit there for anything (never will) and lives in the shadows of LBJ and Wade (plus they don’t even seem to be his boy at all). In Chicago he would have been in a perfect role for his skills…2nd option on offense with good defenders around him so he didn’t have to get is hands too dirty or bang against the other team’s biggest guy. D Rose doesn’t care about the spotlight so he would get more of the love from the US media that he is so desperate for but will get none of in Miami no matter what.  How much do you think he hates getting made fun of as not being anywhere close to Wade and LBJ level (Big 2.5..etc) none of that would happen in Chicago.

    Sweet justice for the Raps though. Bosh leaves to be a bigger star in the US and now everybody thinks he’s not that great and he gets no attention accept when people mock him. hahahahaah I love it!

    • Nilanka15

      Average rebounder?  Easy rebounds?  What are you talking about?  You don’t average over 9 rebounds per game, over an 8 year career by being an “average rebounder”.  I realize there is a lot of angst over Bosh leaving, but reality is reality.  Bosh is a solid player….the 2nd best player to ever play in Toronto.

      • mountio

        Solid player. Yes. Very good 2nd or 3rd option. Yes. 2nd best raptor ever. Yes.
        $126 mm player? Not in a million years ..

        • sleepz

          Who offered him the $126 million dollar contract? BC willingly offered it and was hoping he would accept it.

          What if Bosh had of taken it?

          All of the fans who point out the ‘Payroll – 126 million dollar shackles’ stuff should be thanking Bosh for leaving on his own volition and seriously questioning BC’s abilities as a GM and his direction for this franchise.

          One minute you’re offering Bosh the max and claiming he’s the cornerstone of the franchise and the next minute (after he’s rejected the offer) you’re talking about we should be thankful we aren’t handcuffed by a max deal for a dude who’s not a franchise player??!! How BC gets away with this stuff is beyond me. Hilarious.

          • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

            BC is full of BullChit speaking like a Politician politicking to fans- lies, half truths & full out deception ie PR Spins in the wind.

            Just like when both Jay & he bashed CB in the media questioning his character and the whole 9 but yet they wanted to re-sign him for 126 million dollars (more $$ than CB got with his Miami contract).

            BC is a professional liar- point blank, he says whatever he believes will pacify the Raptors fans (season ticket buyers) who I believe that they (BC & his ‘CON’sensus crew) look at as not knowing or understanding the intricacies of basketball after 15 or so years of NBA basketball in the TDot!!

            Also, the TDot media for the most part seems to be hypnotized by BC as he gets mostly fluff pieces on his player moves, front office decisions & overall direction for the Rap’s current basketball situation.

      • Raps Loyalist

        Remember that game where he had to get like 20 rebounds to avergae 20/10 for the season and did it?  That was him going hard after every rebound.  That was the only game I have ever seen him play like that. 

        Additionally, when you play over 40 minutes a game on a team that has no other interior rebounders you’re gonna get some boards. Compare his hustle with Reggie Evans and it is no contest. They are the same size, Bosh is probably more athletic but Reggie out rebounds him by a mile because he plays hard and cares.  Like I said, Chirs Bosh is a good stats on a bad team player.  Is he a solid player? Most Def! But for a guy his size and with his athleticism at his position he is an average rebounder and defender.

        Chirs Bosh was 46th in the league this year in rebounds per 48 minutes and 79th in the league in blocks per 48 minutes. (behind even Dirk!!!)

        By comparrison backup point guard Keyon Dooling was 46th in the league in assists per 48 minutes and backup center Johan Petro was 46th in the league in steals per 48 minutes. Antonio McDyess is 46th in blocks per 48 minutes


        Is Bosh a good scoring option? Yes but he is average at rebounding and interior defense.  That’s why he needs a rugged center to play with to be in a good situation for his skills

        • Theswirsky

          agree with this in general.

          Bosh was a very good scorer, and average rebounder, and average to poor at anything/everything else.  Little hustle and no toughness.

          I have no idea why people were as enamoured with him as they were while he was here. 

        • Nilanka15

          I’m not defending Bosh’s defense.  I agree he’s average at best. 

          But I don’t agree he’s an average rebounder at all.  One year’s stats in Miami (where he spent the first 4 months trying to figure out his spot on the floor) aren’t going to convince me otherwise.  Simply said, one can’t average 9rpg over 8 seasons without effort.  Otherwise, we’d see every big man in the league putting up similar numbers.

          • Alucart999

            Bosh’s rebounding rate has never been that great. How is he an above-average rebounder?

        • Nilanka15

          Also, the 20 rebound game was an anomaly.  You can’t expect a player to maintain that kind of effort for 82 games.  Dennis Rodman, considered to be one of the greatest rebounders of all time, couldn’t even do it.

          David Robinson once scored 76pts on the final game of the season to win the scoring title.  Should we have expected Robinson to average 76ppg from that point on?

          • Theswirsky

            I think Loyalist’s point there was that IF Bosh wanted to accomplish more he could have.  He wanted to average 10 rebounds a game needed 19 or 20 rebounds to do it, and then went out and did it.  Would he have averaged 20 over a season, ofcourse not.  But 10 rebounds a game for PF/C shouldn’t exactly been seen as some amazing accomplishment.  Its nice, its a better than 5.2 thats for sure, but I would want or expect any and all the PFs or Cs on the team to be able to rebound close to that level if they got 36 minutes a game. 

            Bosh’s biggest issue, much like Bargnani’s, was always in his lack of effort.  The difference is Bosh plays on cruise control while Bargnani is stuck in neutral.

            • Nilanka15

              I agree with that.  But I guess we differ on how we value the 10rpg barrier.  I see it as an indication of a very good rebounder (since only 6 players reached that plateau last year).

              Could Bosh have put in more effort on the glass?  Absolutely (the same can be said about 75% of the league).  But I still don’t see how that translates into Bosh being an “average” rebounder.

            • sleepz

              I don’t have the stats in front of me and am way too lazy to go looking for them but I wonder how many players averaged 10 recounds that year?

              To expect the majority of 4’s and 5’s that play significant minutes to average that is high expectations cause it isn’t that easy. I’m sure if you look at the numbers there are far more exapmples of those that averaged less than 10 than those players that averaged 10 or more.

              • Theswirsky

                ummm… “I would want or expect any and all the PFs or Cs on the team to be able to rebound close to that level if they got 36 minutes a game.” 
                I’m hardly going to discount someone who averages, say, 9.5 rebounds a game.  And ofcourse I stated over 36 minutes (which Bosh atleast averaged every season other than his rookie year).

                But ok… how about this.

                Bosh’s rank rebounding rate for the last 5 seasons:

                2006/07 52nd
                2007/08 97th
                2008/09 68th
                2009/10 34th
                2010/11 105th

                those are hardly stellar numbers. 

                • sleepz

                  I’m not looking for rebounding rates or extrapolated numbers. There will be players that average 10 minutes a game but if you average out their numbers over 36 minutes they’re 18 rebound a game players i’m sure, on that list.

                  I’m looking for the players that year that averaged 10 or more (take it down to 9 if you wish) rebounds per game that year. If a player plays 20 minutes a game and has good rebounding numbers there is no guarantee that if you avaergaeout their numbers over 36 minutes a game their numbers will remain consistent. Players get tired, you play against more starting players with longer minutes, etc.

                  I was just looking for the stat that indicates average rebounds per game and how many players did it that year.

                • Theswirsky

                  I know you were…. but are you seriously going to play the “Bargnani stats” game here?  Where we look at the whole values without putting any context behind them (efficiency, minutes, usage)?  Do you really want to compare someone who played 36 minutes and someone who played 20 minutes and then say the guy who played more is a better rebounder because he got more total rebounds?  Please Sleepz you’re better than that.  

                  That said another interesting value in the equation:
                  2006/07 52nd   16.4%   – AB 25:06 min/g
                  2007/08 97th   14.2%    – AB 23:53 min/g
                  2008/09 68th   15.5%    – AB 31:30 min/g
                  2009/10 34th   17.7%    – AB 35:00 min/g (2800 min. his most ever in his career)
                  2010/11 105th 13.6%    – AB n/a (Bosh with Miami)
                  hmmm… a bit of a correlation between Bosh’s rebounding numbers and the worst rebounder in the league beside him…. maybe Bargnani actually helped Bosh more than we thought lol.

                • sleepz

                  Not playing any games. I just think that the rebounding rate can work both ways when analyzing it.

                  I guarantee on that list is a player that probably averages 6-10 minutes a game ala Joey Dorsey for instance that when he gets in there rebounds at a solid rate, however if you were to play him 36 minutes per game, he wouldn’t average those same numbers due to a myriad of reasons. The Bargnani numbers don’t require much analysis for me. 21 points, 18 shots per game indicates the type of scorer he is to me.

                • Theswirsky

                  but you have to find some way to make them comparable still. 

                  Dorsey (since he is our example), in 6 games where he played over 25 min. last season and averaged 12.5 rebounds in those games (lowest total was 9, highest was 20).  He only played one game over 36 minutes in which he grabbed 13 rebounds.  I don’t know what his exact rate was over those 6 games, but that still would have left him in the top 3 rebounders (per/g) in league while still averaging well less than 36 min a game. 

                  Yet somehow we need to exclude him and say there isn’t evidence that he is a better rebounder than Bosh?  I will say there are a few guys in those rankings that can/should be eliminated by a pure function of being such incredibly small samples.  But there are not enough to bring Bosh to a level of having a “good” rebounding rate especialy over his career.

                  Rebounding rate MAY decreases with total minutes… but total rebounds almost always increase with total minutes (except for Bargnani…). 

                  (I’d also mention Reggie, K.Love and Kris Humphries had their highest per game and total minutes played last year of their careers.  Last year was also each of their highest rebounding rates.  Dorsey had his highest minute totals, and his rate dropped a total of 2% from the previous year, from #1 in the league to #5.)

                  If you want to say Bosh is a better than average (or good) rebounder than most big men who already play X amount of games/minutes… then thats one thing.  But that still doesn’t make him a better rebounder than most of the other big men or the average big man in the league. In fact if we look at things your way, Bargnani is a better rebounder than Dorsey (5.2 reb vs 4.4 per game).  Now are you willing to state that is true?

                • sleepz

                  I agree from an overall perspective (all big men) that the argument (mine) would change but then again I would factor in the players whole game in relation to the minutes and there is no real way to quantify that. To clarify, you play 36  minutes, unless your Reggie, you have to do other things to stay on the court typically than rebound, but thats why I’m not good with the advanced stats and rates.

                  You know for an ABSOLUTE fact that I would never suggest Andrea to be a better rebounder than Dorsey. lol

                • Theswirsky

                  “you have to do other things to stay on the court typically than rebound,”

                  Sure you do, and I want to mention that I did say that Bosh was very good scorer. 

                  But this discussion was very much about Bosh and his rebounding.  To which I still maintain he is quite average… it was just his time on the floor (and having some pretty weak rebounding teammates) that gave him the apperance of a better than average rebounder.

                • Raps Loyalist

                  Amen…Bosh’s rebounding rate rank speaks for itself!

          • Raps Loyalist

            “the 20 rebound game was an anomaly” EXACTLY MY POINT.  Bosh showed he can be a great rebounder when he cares.  Rodman brought intensity and heart every night so teams had to game plan around him on the boards. Bosh could be a great Rodman like rebounder if he cared as much cause he is taller and can probaly jump higher than Rodman

            Take Kevin Love as an example. Dude is shorter and less athletic than Bosh but he plays his ass off and dedicates himself to being a great rebounder.  Bosh get abused on the glass by the best PFs in the legue on the regular and that his why he is average at rebounding. 

            Jose Calderon averaged 8.9 assists a game last year…are we gonna start calling him a great point guard? (that’s their number one job after all) HELL NO! so don’t bring Bosh’s rebound average per game to me like he is something special on the glass

            • Nilanka15

              Jose isn’t a great point guard, but his 8.9apg makes him an above average PASSER (see the difference???).

              Sure Rodman brought intensity, but did he average 20ppg as the team’s primary offensive weapon, and still haul in double-digit rebounds? 

              There is only one Kevin Love in the league.  His stats should hardly be used to distinguish good rebounders from “average” ones.  That’s like your grade school teacher blasting your A- test score because Stephen Hawkin scored higher.

      • Ufakeraptorfan

        unlike bosh assuming the alpha male role as leader of this team he did assume the alpha make role in gobbling those 3 or 4 extra easy fall in your lap style rebounds that other scrubs on the team may have scooped….bosh was stat hoarding for max technologies.

        • Nilanka15

          lol, such a lame argument.

          “Bosh is stat-hoarding!!!  He must’ve drafted himself on his fantasy team!!!”

      • Fddfjkdfljkfsd

        Good player on a bad team. Bad player on a good team.

    • mountio

      And pay David Lee $70 mm over the next 5 years? No thank you ..

      • Raps Loyalist

        Chandler and Gallo would have been money on the Raps and there is no reason BC couldn’t have done the same David Lee sign and trade with the Warriors

    • Sek99

      Ya, Bosh must be sooooooo sad going to the finals. What a loser. 

      • Ufakeraptorfan

        on other players coattails while makin max..yup.

        • Sek99

          I don’t care who you are. He’s a semi-important piece on a finals team making max money. It’s not like he’s a bench player. I’m just saying that Bosh clearly is doing alright, while us Raptors fans have a few terrible years (most likely) to look forward to. Pretty sure he won.

          • PiedPiper

            Bosh wanted to be televised nationally, he got it. He wanted to be noticed, he got it. 

            He wanted exposure and boy let me tell you, he was exposed for the soft p.o.s he is, and every team now knows it.

            “Seriously, a guy can average 20 and 10 and nobody really cares…”

            You’re averaging 18 and 8, you were caught crying at a press conference, you once complained about Omer Asik hustling because “guys can get hurt…we have families to feed/support” or something along those lines in a season filled with DUMB quotes.

            If there’s one thing where Bosh is “doing alright” it’s that he can play for the WNBA during the lockout.

      • Raps Loyalist

        He was sad! Didn’t you see him crying when they lost! hahahah

        My point was that Chicago was the ideal situation for him on the court (next to Noah playing off Rose).  They needed a scoring 4 next to Noah that can shoot and that’s exactly what Bosh is.  Plus Chicago is 3rd biggest media market so he’d get tons of attention/endorsement opportunities

        In Miami his reputation has taken a huge hit.  Nobody calls him a top 10 player in the league anymore but people did say that he was top 10 or close when with the Raps.  When

        Miami lose he is criticized for being soft and when/if they win a championship he will get virtually no credit.  Bosh wants to be loved by the media and be a big off the court hollywood type star.  Problem is he had no idea that Miami was going to be a team of hated villians and that he would be an after thought on the team except when he was playing bad and (then the media would say how he is no where close to as good or valuable to the team as Wade and LeBron.)

        In Chicago he would have been greeted as a king. He would be loved by the media and fans…and be hated by nobody but Raps fans. Plus, he would have been featured as the equal of D. Rose not the “little tag along brother” of LeBron and Wade

        • sleepz

          He’ll get a ring quicker with the Heat than he would the Bulls. Who cares about how you’re being ‘greeted’?

          It’s about the rings and the chance to win them. Thats all that matters

          • Raps Loyalist

            I disagree…The Bulls with Bosh instead of Boozer would be a better all around team than the Heat. NBA players care about legacy and endorsement opportunities a lot. Bosh will be remembered as Horace Grant if the Heat win titles. If he wins a ring in Chicago he is remembered as the co-centerpiece not the “3rd Banana”. Plus he gets wwwaaaaayyyyy more endorsement opportunites by going to Chicago.  I guarantee if he could do it again he wouldn’t chose to go to a team where he is in the background and everybody hates him/wants his team to lose.

            Bosh was talked about as a top 10 player 2 years ago.  Now the Heat would trade him for Scola and Lowry…that’s a big big indication that he made a bad choice by going to the Heat.

            Think about it. Would you rather have 2 rings as a 3rd Banana or 1 ring as “the man”…most guys go for the latter every time.

            • sleepz

              He’s not going to be the man on a team with D. Rose. Secondly the Heat are still better than the Bulls if Bosh is in Chicago instead of Boozer as the Heat still have 2 top 5 players in the league.

              I would rather have 2 rings as 3rd banana then 1 as 2nd fiddle with D.Rose (and I don’t think that ring is a guarantee btw).

              More endorsement deals don’t mean jack without the rings and how much money can you spend in this lifetime anyway (unlesss your name is Antoine Walker) .

              Ask Riley if he would trade Bosh for Scola and Lowry and he will laugh after you. B.Simmons fantasy trades don’t make things true in the real world.

              You won’t know what any players legacy is until it’s all said and done so why try speculating about whether Bosh will be compared to H.Grant or not??? lol

  • sleepz

    Totally agree on your Bosh assesment Arse.
    You hear about the shennanigans (a player can say whatever they want about being the man, but are you privy to the conversations with the GM and agent? no you aren’t) and how Johnson and Bayless are the next coming but the fact remains that the talent disparity has gotten us where we are now and the basketball team we are watching currently, and that is squarely on the GM’s shoulders.
    I especially love the ‘$126 million deadweight’ observations. WHO offered him the contract that would have kept this team in salary cap shackles???lol Did Tannenbaum force him to do it? Maybe that was all lies and he never offered it to him in the first place after he had deemed Bosh the franchise cornerstone? Colangelo gambled and lost and now has more excuses and less accountability than Andrea, which is saying a whole lot.  Once he hires his new GM (wait BC aren’t you the GM?) he’ll be completely insulated from this shabby team he’s put together.

  • Guest

    fuck you trade bargnani punk ass

    • Guest’s Mom

      Cool outrage, bro.

    • yourmum

      need a girlfriend?

  • Sek99

    The thing about trading Bosh before the deadline is that, going into All-star break we were doing very well and seemed possible on the way to a 50 win or near 50 win team. Bosh knew he was going to Miami the second he heard about it, because he knew he wasn’t going anywhere in T.O and he is not a franchise player. Besides all this, not many teams would be willing to trade for half a year of a contract unless he was guaranteed to stay, similar to the Melo deal. In retrospect, sure he should have been traded, but that isn’t BC’s fault (and I’m not one to give BC a pass). Everything else written about the trades is fairly spot on, except I just don’t understand the liking of Anderson. Saying he’s better than Ajinca is like saying this turtle is faster than that sloth.  

  • Bob

    C+ for J. Johnson, more like B+

    • Raps Loyalist

      Totally agree Bob…J. Johnson is a good value for the Miami pick.

  • Statement

    Dwayne Casey has announced his assistant coaching staff.

    Gone are Carlisemo and English, but he is retaining Micah Nori, Eric Hughes and Scott Roth.

    Meh….the only one I will kind of miss is English, because of his NBA pedigree and his work with Amir. 

    All of the other ones I’m ambivalent to and are interchangeable in my mind.

    • Nilanka15

      I still haven’t figured out what Micah Nori brings to the table (other than being the butt-end of jokes).

      • Statement

        Apparently he does advanced scouting of teams that the Raptors are preparing for.

        Again, meh….IMHO the raps could have sent 9 people to scout each team before playing and the results still would have been the same.

      • Statement

        I also just read on Raptorshq that Tom Sterner (a Casey hire) is big into advanced stats and has been a past chairman of a stats-based committee set up to improve coach decision making.

        I hate bring bargs into this, but I wonder what his system will make of the big lug and whether his tool will agree/disagree with the popular metrics.

    • sleepz


    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      3 holdovers from a 22 win team that was last in the NBA in Team defense 2 years running- wow.

      And not one named Alex English, amazing (as in Amazing Grace & Chuck lol).

      AE could have worked with Ed & Amir to expand their offense. Amir looked alot better on offense & at the ft line after working out with AE last summer. Amir even hit a running half hook to beat OKC- that running half hook was an AE staple in his game.

      BC’s fingerprints are all over this staff.

      I wonder if Casey only got the call on Johhny Davis? 

      I couldn’t see Lawrence Frank keeping those 3 guys on his staff.

      • Kevin Oppella

        “BC’s fingerprints are all over this staff.”

        Good. So we have a coach and GM who are on the same page and are working together to assemble the best coaching staff :)

        • Nilanka15

          Didn’t you know that Colangelo is the ring leader of the Illuminati, who single-handedly has the power to start/end world wars?  Colangelo selecting Casey’s assistant coaches are the least of his worries, while he spends the lockout plotting world domination, eating cheese and crackers with Tupac and Elvis (or at least BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!! would have you believe).

          • Kevin Oppella

            Don’t tell me the truth…..I CAN’T HANDLE THE TRUTH!!!

          • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

            Nilanka, seems to me that you like to make baseless insinuations, implications about me proving that you are nothing but a ‘sucka chump side busta’- recognize.

            You win the ‘I’m stuck on stupid’ badge for today- enjoy & congrats.

            • Nilanka15

              Haha sucka chump side busta.  I don’t even know what that means, but it made me laugh.  Well played.

              • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                Look in the mirror & check the reflection, buddy.

            • Nilanka15

              But all jokes aside, you have to admit that you come across as an EXTREME conspiracy theorist.  Not sure if this is intentional or not.

              • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                It’s all in your mind buddy, save the facetious drama for ya mama as you become more ANAL by the day- now is that a conspiracy, or are you just an e asshole that’s full of diarrhea shit with a bad case of the runs, son?

                • Nilanka15

                  How’s this for a theory:

                  BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!! = Bryan Colangelo’s wife.

                  You’re tired of your husband answering phone calls at 3 a.m. from Jake Tsakalidis’s agent, so you’ve initiated a smear campaign in an attempt to get him fired so that you can get uninterrupted sleep at night.  Interesting strategy.

                  I mean really, Dr. J as General Manager couldn’t possibly be a “real” idea, lol.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  Wow, you are a sad fellow- really……..did your mom not hug enough you as a child?

                  Did your daddy touch you in private places in dark spaces?

                  Your e infatuation with me is borderline compulsive, buddy.lmfao

                • Id

                  Lmao, I’d buy that theory. 

                  Turns out that all along, she just wanted some time together with BC.

          • Jimmeny

            Nah, BC plotting world domination is probably a few years away. We are still at the stage where BC and David Stern are collaborating to make the Raptors as Euro as possible so Stern can use the Raps as a stepping stone for the NBA’s future expansion to Europe -or at least BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!! would have you believe).

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!


          We need a head coach that is allowed to coach and select his own staff to compete with not some more image over reality BullChit from BC. Early on for all intents and purposes Casey sounds alot like BC’s puppet regurgitating Raptor talking points like a ‘yes man’- we saw what just recently happened when BC coached the team via Jay like a hidden hand svengali.

          If you think Casey has the best coaching staff go look at MJackson in GS or MBrown in LA or wait to see who Detroit’s new coach selects to his staff.

          3 holdovers from a 22 win team last season that was last 2 years running in Team defense in the NBA- do you really want to bring back 3 coaches (one of whom was even Alex English) or do you want to clean house and get new voices?

          Like I said I highly doubt that Lawrence Frank would bring back any assistants under Jay or let BC manipulate him like it seems Casey is doing so far ie calling AB the Team’s ‘star player’, a PF & ‘Dirk like’.

          BC is running this Rap’s show from top to bottom and hires nothing but lackeys not independent thinkers who will challenge him or his cult like front office BC ‘CON’census.

          • Kevin Oppella

            K. My reply to that is English was an assistant before Colangelo arrived in 2006 and he remained an assistant up until Casey announced is new coaching staff. Colangelo also said a while back that he would be open to allowing Triano return as an assistant coach (or something to that effect) but as you can tell that hasn’t happened. Now, I’m not saying that Colangelo didn’t have a say in anything. In fact I’m sure he did. I just think that Casey input about the coaching staff weighed just as much if not slightly more

            Oh yeah i when i said best coaching staff earlier I didn’t mean like the Fantastic Four best team in the world, I just meant best coaching staff for this team

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

              A coach should have full autonomy when selecting his staff of he’s just a lackey and/or a puppet.

              To keep 3 assistant coaches from a 22 win team (that was the worst team defensive wise in the NBA 2 years running) under a new head coach is unheard of in the NBA- I can’t recall it being done.

              BC needed to clean house with the coaching staff but he keeps his ‘yes men’ around to coddle AB & report to him for directions.

              Why would any new incoming head coach in their right mind hire the previous head coach as an assitant head coach on their staff?

              Jay fucked up the Rap’s as BC’s puppet yet he got promoted into the Front Office to be BC’s special consultant ie nut hugger.

              The current coaching staff assembled by BC under Casey sucks big time- where are any big man coaches at on the staff?

              Hopefully BC will be gone out of town in 2-3 years time.

              • Nilanka15

                “Why would any new incoming head coach in their right mind hire the previous head coach as an assitant head coach on their staff?”

                Familiarity with the players and the city go a long way.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  You are soooooo wrong, get a freakin’ clue Sherlock.lmfao

                  Name me one NBA HEAD coach that got fired but was retained by the incoming head coach as an assistant coach since 1990? I can’t recall of 1 instance of this happening as a new coach wants his own staff as it’s his ass on the line if they don’t meet the owners/fans expectations for said team.

                  No wonder BC keeps getting over on so many TDot Raptor fans because people don’t overstand the game because if they did they would see that BC’s commitment to defense is all superficial especially if you keep 3 coaches from a 22 win staff that were an integrel part of 2 years of being the worst defensive team in the NBA.

                  I believe most any cognitive non puppet NBA head coach would want a clean slate of coaches at their own discretion one of the many rumored reasons that Lawrence Frank didn’t want the TDot job- because BC would be to meddlesome & he didn’t want to coddle Bargnani.

                  Casey may be on his way to becoming the new Triano puppet strings and all just from a defensive angle- will it work, time will tell but as with BC I don’t like the smell.

                • Sven

                  Do you have a source for that Frank comment? Or after saying it so many times have you just decided to upgrade it from opinion to rumour?

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  You are really going to ask me to clarify something then have the gall to give me a snide remark as well- go find the particulars yourself, chump.

                • Sven

                  You are full of shit, you are the one making claims, you are the one who has to support those claims. There are obviously no particulars to find because you made it up.

                  You are the one who believes BC is a dictator within the Raps organization, you are the one who believes he controls ticket prices and is always trying to pull one over on the fans, and best of all you are the one who believes BC and David Stern are conspiring together to make the Raptors like a euroleague team so Stern can expand the NBA in to Europe in the future. Of all people, you need sources when making statements.

                • Id

                  No, he’s upgrading it to “word of God” just like he does for all his posts lol.

          • Id

            Bullsht, you backed Casey from day one, why the about-face?

            Also, you claim that every coach under BC is his “puppet” first Triano, now Casey. Why do you think that? Every single damn head coach. What do you want them to do lol? Go out and badmouth BC in front of the media lol? Would that get rid of the puppet tag? Or would it get him fired lol?

            Sht, if my boss hired me to get paid millions of dollars a year I would kiss his as too, not risk getting fired just for the sake of having a different opinion.

            BC hired Casey because they were on the same page from the get-go, what do you expect? I’d sure hope they agree with each other on basketball related things, unless of course they like the same flavor ice-cream, same color, same movie, same music, THEN you can call him a puppet, or maybe soulmates lol…

            If you were looking for a coach that would disagree with every single thing BC said, then you should’ve applied for the job yourself as you fit that title.

            • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

              You have been lost all credibilty with me my ass kissing friend- is your soul for sale as well?lmfao

            • Nilanka15

              When you get BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!! to ignore all your basketball-related comments in his reply, it means you’ve stumped him.

              • Id

                Lol I know eh? I was expecting a long paragraph about BC, AB, the Raps, and him lecturing me on life lessons, but I can live with his confused one-line replies.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  You tried to say I said some things that I didn’t even say and pass it off as actual factual.lmfao

                  You have no credibility with me- recognize your posted lies- chump.

                  So ask urself- why would I reply to you anymore?

                  Id you have no Id(ea) so be put on notice that  from this point on forward I won’t be responding to whatever you post, have a great life,

                • Jonathan

                  “You have no credibility with me”

                  Funniest thing I’ve read in a while.  You greatly overestimate the value of your opinion — we aren’t your mother.

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  Thank you very much.

              • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                Insinuations are like masturbation- it only gets you off, kiddo.

                Assume- when you assume you make an- ASS out of U & Me- soak up some game, lame.

                Fyi- I liked Woodson over Casey. But Casey was my 2nd choice.

                I started to sour on Casey once I heard him call AB the Team’s ‘star player’, said he was ‘Dirk like’, and a ‘PF not a Center’- all regurgitated BC talking points.

                And now that Casey has all but let BC dictate his assistant coaching staff (a head coach should have full autonomy when selecting his staff or he’s just a figure head- in this case for defense) he’s seemingly nothing more than another BC ‘CON’sensus puppet.

                BC will still be calling the shots on playing time & rotation just wait and see as we will see what happens once Barg’s shows that he is still the same lazy moo’fer as a PF that he was as a Center & that Jose can’t keep NBA guards in front of him- will Casey still potentially start both?

                Nilanka, you’re the definition of a male bitch- recognize, not only women are bitches but some males like you are too as Ice T would say:

                • Nilanka15

                  What’s funny is that you claim to not care about what people think of you, but when you get called out on these msg boards, you hurl obscenities like you’re suffering from Turret’s Syndrome.

                  Regardless, your basketball-related opinion is as credible as your infamous “Miami in 7” finals prediction.  Based on the outcome of that failed prediction, didn’t you say you wouldn’t post here anymore?  Oh that’s right, you lied….

                • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

                  U mad?lmfao

                • Nilanka15

                  No, I’m not mad.  I just find it hypocritical when liars accuse people of lying.

                • JackJohnson

                  “Insinuations are like masturbation- it only gets you off, kiddo.”

                  Hmm, I may have to start insinuating more often then, if they really are as advertised.

  • therednorth

    What would be the worse mistake, losing Bosh for almost nothing or having him under contract for 7 years of max salary?

    • mountio

      Having him under contract. For sure.

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

    BC makes alot of sideways transactions.

    The only reason BC was able to unload Turk so easily to the Sun’s is because Turk’s agent Lon Babby took over Phoenix Suns’ basketball operations that same summer.

    Jarrett Jack and Marcus Banks and center David Andersen were traded for Peja, whom BC subsequently bought out. Bayless was acquired from NO using a portion of the CB TPE.

    The CB trade now looks like this as BC traded CB in exchange for JBayless, AAjinca (acquired with CB TPE), JJohnson (acquired for Miami draft pick #28) & Val (selected with the 1st round draft pick that Miami gave back to the Rap’s that it had acquired in the JO for Marion/Banks deal).

    Plus Miami used that #28 draft pick it initially traded away in the CB deal to select Cleveland St PG Norris in a draft day trade via Minnesota so add Norris Cole into the equation.

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

    CB TPE (9 million remaining)- Do you know me? (Naughty by Nature voice) 

  • TH

    In my mind, the worst marks against Colangelo are the moves he didn’t make:
    1) Gerald Wallace was offered to us for TJ Ford straight up
    2) Beasley was being given to us for free. Roll the damn dice
    3) Anthony Randolph was being dumped and could have picked him up for almost nothing

    Conclusion: Brian Colangelo is a good scout. He drafts well. He should not be making trades or signing free agents.

    • cesco

      Beasley ??? What are you smoking at 2.05 AM ? .

  • guest

    Good for calling a spade a spade on the whole Bosh fiasco…..BC screwed up.

    Sure thats in hindsight…..but thats what we’re talking about…we’re reviewing the path he took.

    One way was to trade Bosh (as early as 3 years ago) and the other way was to continue trying to build crap around him (JO, Turk, etc).

    BC took the wrong option.

    thus:  FAIL

    And people, please…Cavs have way more excuse to take their path with LBJ.  Even if you know he’s leaving in 2-3 years (yeah that sucks), but he’s the kind of once-in-a-generation talent that you just build around, and sit back and enjoy while you can.  They at least got a Finals appearance out of it and were generally among the “talk of the league” all those years. 

  • umpaumpaterere

    oh my god, what a long summer…

  • Moe

    Imo, Corey Joseph was drafted by the Spurs because he’s a former Texas Longhorn, so by drafting there own “local boy” so to speak, it was a good PR move. I highly doubt that if he played for any other non-Texas team, he wouldn’t have been selected.

    • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

      SA doesn’t draft like that they draft talent and SA must have seen something in Cory that they liked since they traded their back up pg George Hill on draft night.

      • Nilanka15

        I love this idea that everything San Antonio touches turns to gold.  Yes, they’ve had many examples of finding diamonds in the rough, but has anyone ever heard of Adam Hanga, James Anderson, Ryan Richards, Jack McClinton, Nando De Colo, James Gist, Damir Makota, Romain Sato, Sergei Karaulov, Randy Holcomb, Robertas Javtokas, or Bryan Bracey?  Neither have I, but they were all Spurs draft picks over the past 10 years.

        Cory Joseph could be a diamond in the rough, but it’s hardly guaranteed he’ll turn into a special player just because he was picked by San Antonio.

        • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

          BC cited that SA wanted to draft Val as a reason that he drafted on draft night- recognize, and alot of folks (I believe that you were one of them correct me if I’m wrong) sucked that up in here as rational for Jonas early on (that SA tried to trade up to draft whether it was true or not).

          Save your lists kiddo…..all NBA teams have a failed ‘projected potential’ list.

          Did I say that Cory would turn into a special (whatever that means) player? No I did not.

          But he will most likely be a solid rotation player in SA behind TParker as he has the talent 7 skill level- as shown at Texas, he just needs to be coached up & buy into in a productive proven basketball system, culture which they have in SA along with veteran players to make sure he understands his role on the team.

          Cory’s future is brighter than the Rap’s- as is.

  • BCGheradiniJayGots2Go!!!

    Fyi- Tony ‘GPS’ Wroten Jr (University of Washington) is who the Rap’s need to target for next seasons draft a 6’4 barefoot 205 PG with Penny Hardaway skills & a Gary Payton swag.

    Tone is #1 in green he crosses over John Wall something vicious. This is from Jamal Crawford’s 2011 Pro Am Summer League in Seattle at the Rainier Vista Boys Club.

    • Id

      I thought you wanted us to target 60th overall pick Isaiah Thomas lol. 

      If I remember correctly, you were citing youtube videos to explain his brilliance as well. Is this deja vu lol?