This is a couple days late, but whatever. Here are Bargnani’s highlights against Greece.

Let’s review:

  • Offensive rebound, followed by dunk
  • One hard dribble to the left, turn around jumper
  • Clean rebound, rather uncontested
  • Clean rebound, uncontested
  • Rebound falls to him
  • Good shot contest, rebounds
  • Drives in the lane, finishes with left
  • Drives from three, to the right, finishes at the rim
  • Rebounds a FT
  • Passes to Gallinari for a jam
  • Grabs rebound without having position
  • Hits three
  • One dribble pull-up from elbow, gets fouled too
  • Drive for baseline jam, no help
  • Gets rebound, man on back didn’t contest

What did we learn? Bargnani’s a pretty good player against Greece in Olympic qualifying. Before you call me a “hater”, let it be said that I’d look at any performance in any international competition in the same light. Bargnani was impressive, but it’s not the first time he’s “dominated” international competition only to underwhelm in the league. Remember this and this?

The great positive here isn’t his performance, but that he’s playing competitive basketball and not drifting too far away from the game. My take on him is set in concrete now, I don’t expect him to get worse or improve, I don’t expect him to average 10 rebounds a game and become an average defender, nor do I expect his scoring average to plummet. He’s not going to be a superstar, or even a star, but he will, barring injury, have a long NBA career on account of his scoring capacity. He might even get to an All-Star game once or twice if things go his way.

He’s going to be Duane Casey’s most interesting project, isn’t he? Casey will try where Mitchell and Triano failed: getting Bargnani to play hard, and play defense. For all of Sam Mitchell’s shortcomings, he actually had the balls to ruffle some feathers and tweak Bargnani’s setup by bringing him off the bench. Overall, the results were mixed, the spike in Bargnani’s performance after O’Neal was traded eventually normalized, and he found his place between being spectacular 15% of the time, crap 50% of the time, and so-so 35%. Jay Triano didn’t even try. Under Triano, Bargnani did not come off the bench for even one game. I’m not saying the bench is the answer to an underperforming player, however it does serve as an indicator of how committed Triano was to Bargnani, despite the team’s piss-poor defensive record.

You couldn’t quite put your finger on it, but you knew when Chris Bosh’s time in Toronto was up. The same for Vince Carter and the same for Damon Stoudamire, there’s this feeling you get which tells you that a player’s contribution to the franchise has maxed out. There’s nothing more to be had here, that maybe it’s better for both parties to move on, acknowledge that it wasn’t a good fit for whatever reason and pursue other interests. It’s not a rejection of a player or a team, it’s an understanding that life is short and time is best not wasted, especially considering the length of NBA careers. It might be Bargnani’s time to go, not even for the betterment of the Raptors, but so he can realize his potential in a more apt setting.

Move ahead to the 2012-13 season, and you’ll have Jonas Valanciunas playing center, and Bargnani potentially moving to the power forward. How much time will that experiment be given? How many permutations will it take to finally find that elusive fit for Bargnani where everything falls in place in perfect harmony? The quest for this Utopian scenario could cost the Raptors even more time, and if any lesson is to be learned from the history painted by Chris Bosh, it’s one that speaks to how dangerous it is to continually back the wrong horse.

  • Theswirsky

    “and if any lesson is to be learned from the history painted by Chris Bosh, it’s one that speaks to how dangerous it is to continually back the wrong horse.”

    amen

    • Ska

      to be fair, CB4 wasn’t asked to bulk up as a Center, Instead he ply his natural role since day 1

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DANSRO43XQD3CLQZ2JFM5JZRQI 2damkule

        uh, no.

  • JoePanini

    I think either Bargnani plays with full effort this year, and shows he’s worth building WITH, or he’ll be traded or relegated to being a scoring sixth-man ala Crawford. Unless Bargnani actually becomes decent at defense, or even just not being a liability, then he shouldn’t start ahead of Ed Davis. I’d be very disappointed if Bargnani’s overall game and effort remained the same, and still started at the 4, taking minutes from Ed and Amir.

    Also, I don’t think Bargnani will be moved to the 4 when Valanciunas arrives. Valanciunas will probably play limited minutes off the bench. I am doubtful though, that this team can go on with 4 capable big men, who will all be making decent money. One definitely needs to go, and after next year one is definitely leaving. I think it’s going to be either Amir or Bargnani, depending wholly on Bargnani’s performance this year. Otherwise, and I hope not, if an offer is made, Ed could be traded. That would be very unfortunate, but you never know Colangelo and his unpredictability. A lottery pick in next years draft could definitely intrigue Colangelo.

    Honestly, what I’d like to see after the Championships, is Bargnani going to Toronto to train with DeRozan, Davis, Amir and other Raptors. Would be cool if he’d actually spend a summer with the team, but it’s unlikely, as he trains in Italy and might actually accept a move to an Italian team during the lockout.

  • Aaron

    I think that the coach should take the following tactic:  “Barn-Boy!  I don’t care if you ever score another point!  I want to see you play defense, and rebound, and if you happen to score that’s GREAT NEWS.”  Raptors aren’t going anywhere anyway so he might as well go for broke.

  • brother

    Arse, I agree with your sentiments re: Bargnani. He’s not going to have this “awakening” where he morphs into a Dirk-like player. He is what he is. He improved in his first couple of years, but since has been fairly static.

    Every summer I watch highlights of his play with the national team and I feel the same way. Every single move he made in this latest batch of clips we’ve all seen before. Some of them are beautiful – i.e. off the dribble, the set shot 3, the jab step mid-range jumper over defense. Others – i.e. where he “grabs” the board by default because it bounced off the rim and onto his head, aren’t pretty and they are not getting prettier. His rebounding is NOT improving. His defensive positioning is NOT improving.

    What is coaching for? When I look at a guy like Bargnani, I always question the role of coaching. What are they telling him? “Don’t box out! Don’t keep a body on your man! Don’t take up space and fight for the rebound!”

    • Nilanka15

      Has anyone read Michael Lewis’ “Moneyball”?  Yes, it’s about baseball, but a lot of points apply to all sports.

      One point raised through watching the likes of Miguel Tejada and Eric Chavez continually hack away at pitches outside of the strike zone (at a time when the Oakland A’s were PREACHING patience and discipline at the plate), is that it doesn’t matter how hard coaches try to scream, yell, teach, etc….discipline is an innate quality that is very difficult to learn in adulthood.

      The same thought process applies to rebounding in basketball.  To be a half-decent rebounder, you simply need discipline, which reminds a player to put his body on an opposing player EVERY TIME a shot is released.

      It probably won’t matter what techniques Casey uses with Bargnani.  He (more than likely) will always be a poor rebounder.

      • brother

        I hear you and your take on Michael Lewis’s commentary and it must be patently true.

        I just wonder how that is the case. I would say this much: it is MUCH more difficult to teach an old dog new tricks, but it is possible. Especially when we’re talking about humans and millions of dollars and full-time trainers and coaches and the best facilities and the best training methods.

        Are we convinced that a coach or trainer has screamed at him “box out” 3 hours a day for 3 months straight? I’m not so sure I am. I think there are a lot of mixed messages and maybe they should just shut out everything else for a month and focus on ONE THING: boxing out!!!!!!!!

        • Theswirsky

          the questioned shouldn’t be “can you teach an old dog new tricks”.  The question should be “is it worth attempting to teach this old dog new tricks” (especially while having 11-14 other dogs who need attention to). 

          There is an opportunity cost to “teaching” Bargnani how to be better at what he needs to do better. 

          • brother

            I agree with that – but why not buy an intense coach or trainer and lock Bargnani in a gym for 1 month doing 3 or 4 hrs a day with nothing and I mean NOTHING but this being screamed at him: BOX OUT! BODY! USE YOUR BODY TO BLOCK THE PATH TO THE BALL! BOX OUT! BOX OUT! FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS HOLY, BOX OUT!!!!!!!!

            Then if that fails, ship him out.

    • Gradgrind101

      I agree except none of Bargnani’s moves are beautiful…I see way better moves in community centers around the gta…Anyone can make buckets if the other team is asleep. What I see is no hustle plays, no struggles for loose balls, no battle on the boards no effort to get into and hold position…WHAT I SEE IS NO GRIT & NO GROWTH!!!

      • Dumfugs

        youre 2 dumb to see his grit n growth.

        • Gradgrind101

          First of all when you have a different opinion than other people be nice to them. They may know what they’re talking about. In my experience intelligent people will challenge someone’s view and force them to defend their position with facts. For instance a sharp minded person might have replied to my comment with something like this…”If Bargnani has not grown then explain why Bargnani’s average points per game has gone up every season since his second season”. Or if you’re really clever you might have said…”Bargnani is becoming a smarter player by not taking so many 3 pointers and has moved his game closer to the rim where he is more successful (every season he has taken more and more 2 pointers while maintaining accuracy)”.
            Secondly you shouldn’t call someone “dumb” when you named yourself “Dumfugs”. Wait a minute…I get it…I am dumb…But not dumb enough to see his grit and growth…But because you’re a dumfug you can see it!

          • Nilanka15

            His name is Joshua Reynolds.  He’s Bargnani’s biggest fan, and has a new screen name every day.  He’s been posting for over a year with multiple handles.

            • Gradgrind101

              I noticed you pointed him out before…I guess a new handle everyday buys him temporary respect…

            • cesco

              You give the mantra of Bargnani biggest fan to just anyone who support him . It is Multipaul , Joshua , myself and probably a few others , depending on how many times we post in a given article . In truth we are all members of a club called  ‘ Andrea biggest fans ‘ and there are thousands of us .

  • Eddy

    The problem with the Raptors is the cheap, greedy, ass=wipes that own the organization, the worst sports ownership group in the history of man. It has nothing to do with Bargnani. If they spent a little money the Raptors wouldn’t be the laughingstock of the League.

    • Nilanka15

      How do you spend money when most significant free agents wouldn’t want to sign here?

      • Eddy

        They would sign here if they thought ownership was dedicated to winning, as well as making money. They are not.

        • Nilanka15

          I too question ownership’s dedication to winning, but I don’t believe they’ve been stingy with their checkbooks.  Spending hasn’t been an issue (see Bosh, Calderon, Bargnani and Turkoglu), it’s spending on the right players that’s hurt us.

          • Theswirsky

            “Spending hasn’t been an issue (see Bosh, Calderon, Bargnani and Turkoglu), it’s spending on the right players that’s hurt us”

            The Raptors payroll was greater than 11 of the 16 playoff teams last season (only below Dallas, LA, Portland, Orlando and Boston).
             
            The Raptors ranked deadlast in payroll efficiency (wins per dollar spent).
             
            The problem is NOT with spending money.  The Raptors problem is with HOW they spent their money.  That is on the guy who decides the contracts and the players who get the contracts.

          • Eddy

            When was the last time you saw them spend like the LA Lakers or Celtics, the teams that actually win? When was the last time they paid a tax, for spending too much, in order to win. They are cheap, bottom line money grabbers, who take advantage of a loyal fan base, without giving them anything back but crappy basketball teams.

            • Theswirsky

              when was the last time they were in a situation where spending actually made sense?

              Spending money for the sake of spending money doesn’t = wins (see NYK under Isaih Thomas).  In fact I’d say thats about the most dangerous thing a team can do.  Its about spending money on the right players at the right time. 

              How does MLSE take advantage of the loyal fan base?  Did someone show up to your house and force you to spend money or time on the Raptors?  If not then you only have yourself to blame.

              • Eddy

                “How does MLSE take advantage of the loyal fan base?  Did someone show up to your house and force you to spend money or time on the Raptors?  If not then you only have yourself to blame.”

                I like basketball and I’d like to cheer for my local team but the greedy idiots who run MLSE make that very difficult. Do you have a problem with that? By the way do you work at MLSE, or are you the second biggest homer next to Doug Smith?

                • Theswirsky

                  “I like basketball and I’d like to cheer for my local team but the greedy idiots who run MLSE make that very difficult.”

                  apparently not so difficult that you still find a way to spend money and cheer for them. 

                  Do I have a problem with that?  No go nuts.  Spend on what you want to spend, use your time however you enjoy.

                  But I have a problem with presenting inaccuracte information, and then proceeding to blame someone else for your own choices.

                • Eddy

                  I didn’t provide any inaccurate information, moron.

                • Ihatehaters

                  Eddy – you don’t know what you are talking about. The Raps are a laughingstock, but its not because they don’t spend money. It’s because they make bad personnel decisions.

                • Eddy

                  What makes you an expert, idiot?

                • Ihatehaters

                  Why are you so mad, Eddy?

                • Eddy

                  Because I hate condescending morons.

                • Ihatehaters

                  You need more love in your life, Eddy.

                • Nilanka15

                  You did provide inaccurate information when you said MLSE doesn’t spend money.

              • RapthoseLeafs

                [ “when was the last time they were in a situation where spending actually made sense?” ]

                All the time. Every time.

                At least as long as this current CBA remained.
                .

                Since the CBA will most likely change dramatically, this may all be a moot point. But – in my understanding of manipulating the luxury tax – being over gives a team the luxury (no pun intended), of dealing players (such as expirings), for a combination of bad contracts & talent. And the more you are in the luxury limit, the greater your ability to deal.

                And since Toronto has NEVER – EVER been in the Luxury tax zone, they’ve never been able to use this “loophole”, like teams such as the Lakers, Celtics, and Mavs do.

                .

    • Emichael

      Spending money has little to do with the problem. We can’t attract good free agents because they simply are not interested in playing outside of the United States. It also hurts that we have no history of sucess, so once again good players are not interested in playing for losing franchises. It also hurts that management has made poor decisions when it comes to throwing money at certain players. So Eddy, it doesn’t make sense to throw money at medicore players who are willing with play for Toronto. Start from the ground up, build with young talent like OKC did, that is our best chance (even at the risk that players may depart). And by the way, stop calling everyone an idiot or moron, it’s not nice.

      • Killer

        I don’t recall saying they should spend money on crappy players. Do a Google search on Chris Bosh and luxury tax. You will see he mentioned it specifically when he was deciding to stay in Toronto or not. He identified paying the luxury tax with “winning” teams. What did Bosh do? He left.

        The last time Toronto had a winning team, the Bluejays of the early 90’s, they had the highest payroll in the league. This is a huge market with sports teams that act like they are in a small market. The cheap, money grubbing corporate tight wads are never going to win. However, it looks like they bought themselves another 5 years, by promising the future is bright, and you bought it.

        • Killer

          By the way, I used Killer as a name because Eddy was not working.

          • Onemanweave

              Rapthoseleafs made an interesting point that I’d like to see discussed in greater depth. Does it hold water or doesn’t it?  OR we can continue to give our own limited views on how the local basketball landscape should unfold.  You can re-cycle the same old sh-t as much as you want, but it’s still the same old sh-t.

            • Killer

              My bet is we will continue to blame players, like Bargnani, for what is really a failure of ownership.

        • Theswirsky

          Thats like telling a guy “You should date girls.  And not just any girl.  Hot girls!  And if you don’t you’re gay”. 

          • Killer

            Sorry son, I didn’t graduate from the school of really bad analogies so I have no idea what you are chirping on about.

            • Theswirsky

              I’m sorry you don’t understand daughter.

              • Killer

                Piss off, idiot.

                • Theswirsky

                  good one!

            • p00ka

              doh

  • p00ka

    *yawn*

  • 511

    I guess it’s nice that Bargnani is playing at all, but … I didn’t even watch all of this video. It’s too obvious that he’s up against guys that are light-years from NBA level of play … it looks almost silly. And other than – maybe – the conditioning aspects, I can’t imagine that this experience is doing much in the way of good for ole Bargs. 

    That said, I’ll hold off on the general scoffing for a bit and give Duane Casey his own chance to see what he can make of Bargnani’s talents. Odds and likelihoods might be way against Casey being able to get Bargs pointed in whatever right direction some still hope for but … if he’s gonna be a part of the team, I’ll keep my fingers lightly crossed that there’s a lightbulb somewhere in Bargnani’s head that Duane Casey can find the switch for. Cuz … why not? Hope, that is. Casey IS a defensive specialist, after all. So maybe he can somehow make something more of the basketball abilities that Bargs does have. We’ll see. One day. I hope. 

    • Thecaptain2000

      Well, he was playing against Kosta Kufos and he is an NBA player, so if you do not bother to watch, why do you bother us talking? (this is irrespective of your opinion on Andrea)
      What is worth it mentioning of that video is the guy comes across as heavily slimmed down and (hence?) way more reactive. I do not know how much of a factor this will be when he plays NBA ball again, but he has been made gaining  weight to play C so we could beat the dead Bosh horse in the past.  Going to the Dirk story, stop with your (collective) “the grass is greener everywhere else” attitude. Dirk is a pylon on D and he is as good (bad) as Andrea is in that respect. It could be worth it talking about offensive efficiency (Dirk is more efficient indeed) although last year, on O he was basically the only player opponents were focusing on and no, they were not going to leave Andrea alone to double Ed Davis (or anyone else).

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DANSRO43XQD3CLQZ2JFM5JZRQI 2damkule

        really?  wow…kosta koufos.  i’m impressed.

        look, the whole bargnani love/hate thing is so old, there’s really no point left in getting into these debates.  he is what he is, either you see that as a positive or a negative, it doesn’t change much of anything.

        i will say that while i do like that he’s staying in shape & actually playing competitive* ball, what has always bothered me about his role on his national team is that there never seems to be an emphasis on him learning/developing the skills that will help him as an NBA player (either as a C or a PF) – the Italian team needs him to perform in a scoring role, doing essentially what he’s already good at in the NBA, and does not require (well, they probably do, but don’t force him to, much like the raps) him to be an effective defender or rebounder.  as such, he perpetuates his current abilities – his offensive game stagnates (since he’s never asked to do more than what he’s comfortable with), and his defense/rebounding remains the same (by any metric – or from simply watching): horrible.  bargs is one of the few examples in which a player would benefit more by intense, one-on-one coaching than he would be participating in these international events.

        just my $.02.

  • Milesboyer

    Sometimes it’s not about backing the best horse, but putting your best horses out there.  The idea that the any team should keep tossing aside good/decent players because they aren’t great or the perfect fit, doesn’t really work in the real world.  Teams need to be competitive unless it’s an obvious rock bottom rebuild and even that can’t be sold forever.

  • http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfence/ Tim W.

    The main problem with your argument is that no one is suggesting “tossing” Bargnani aside.  They’re suggesting trading him for a player/players that are more likely to help you win.  In the real world, just because a player is skilled doesn’t mean he can help you win.  

    • KJ-B

      Ahem, do you have #7’s email: http://www.ballislife.com/profiles/blogs/blakereboundingworkout (Blake Griffin doesn’t just outjump ppl to play “Rebound Ball” — he actually prepares himself with a training regimen–GO FIGURE..? I mean the problem here has always been effort and willingness for #7 to get the gel smacked out from his hair underneath the boards… Let’s not kid ourselves by watching him play v Greece!

  • Bo4

    This coming season, I don’t care one iota how Andrea is used. If he isn’t a significantly better defender, I want him gone next summer, period. I don’t want to demote Amir or Ed. I want to keep those two. I don’t want to keep Il Frustrato!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Nisbet/1406960551 Mark Nisbet

    Bog decision to make don’t they.  I have to make one point.  If we think that sliding Bargs to the PF with Jonas is going to bare fruit right away then we don’t know much.  After blowing off Bargs international play as well…international play you then make the assumption that Jonas is going to step right in at 240 lb. and be a effective center from day 1.  News Flash!  Its not going to happen.  He might get the job like DeRozan did  but he isn’t going to be a difference maker for a year or 2 barring a miracle.  I don’t hate the idea of trading Bargs of we can get a solid SF or PG under 25 or a 1st round pick in the upcoming draft.  I don’t think there is any chance this happens because admitting the need to rebuild the rebuild would cost BC his job forsure.  Maybe its the right thing thou.  Unless we get a SUPERSTAR in the draft a core of Bargs, Jonas, DD and Davis is going to get you no where.  We need a real player to build around.  He’s not on the roster yet and I really don’t 4 teams passed on a franchise center in the past draft.  We have many peices to solve the puzzle but we’re still missing the BIG ONE!!!

    • Bo4

      I somewhat agree with you. However, Amir was missed by you, and Andrea is NOT going to get us anywhere as a team. James & Jerryd are better off as subs. We need to get starters ahead of them by hook or by crook … and José, Leandro & Andrea would have to go to make room for them. THAT’S the team that can do some damage someday !!!!!!!!

  • Filthytwat

    arse. i guess being subjected to the retards on the daily has you
    fucking diseased. back the wrong horse? so is supporting demars growth
    backing the wrong horse?…buddy,  unlike bosh who did everything in his
    power to make it out he was “the franchise” that he was “an all star”
    that he was “the alpha dog” that he was “the go to guy” that he was “the
    teams best player” that he was “all alone” that he was “worth max
    money” AND HE CLEARLY WASNT……bargs has done nothing of the sort but
    be the consummate team player and want to be a piece, a piece of a
    winning team. this crap that the detractors of his game ALSO want to heap the
    entire franchises responsibilities on his back is fucking ridiculous.

  • Filthytwat

    ….and arse. instead of faggoty point form points about a highlight reel. how bout u try downloading the whole game and watch that before you wax poetic about nothing…u wrote a whole blog entry off a fucking highlight reel….nice.

    • Filthytwat

      oh wait. i detract the above comment. it wasnt about the game it was “your comments on bargnani”….thx btw 4 that,thx for feeding the pigeons…the success of this site has inflated your head to the point that you can make a blog entry so void of anything factual….must be nice.

      • Nilanka15

        Joshua Reynolds, your love for Bargnani is by far the scariest thing humanity has ever witnessed.

        • Mac

          It used to be borderline compulsive, and he just crossed it.

      • Statement

        BTW it’s “retract” not “detract”

      • Arsenalist

        Write up a coherent post, and I’ll post it on the main site.  We can even do it weekly.

        Your move.

        • Filthytwat

          how about instead of a fuckhead article on bargs you write something about the tournament that starts tomorrow that myself and other raptor fans will be watching with keen interest? EuroBasket 2011 (Aug 31st – Sept 18th)

          • Theswirsky

            sorry I was under the impression this was a Raptors blog and not a EuroBasket blog?

            • ak

              this site has transformed itself from an informative blog about the raptors to a place where raptor fans come to either hate on bargs/bosh/whoever the teams best player or hate on the haters.

              oh and eurobasket is fun because it has players who are in our or can potentially join it. i would welcome any sort coverage of the upcoming tournament with open arms.

            • GLAMITY

              Are you mentally challenged. The euro basket tourney has raptor players involved.

              • Theswirsky

                like, I don’t know, Andrea Bargnani?

                Mention that to genius above

                • GLAMITY

                  u really are retarded eh?

    • Statement

      Dude,

      Come on.  You don’t pay anything to read this site.  Criticize if you want but constructively and with more sense than a pre-teen.

  • CalgaryRapsFan

    It’s such a shame that a few posters on here make this site almost not worth visiting and makes Toronto Raptors fans seem like complete morons.  Where is the respect for fellow posters?  Why the name calling?  Why the constant back-and-forth?  Make your point and move on.

    I get that it’s a boring offseason with the lockout, but can’t we get back to at least some minimal level of respect and class?  I expect more from my fellow Raptors fans!

    • Statement

      Good call. 

  • RapthoseLeafs

    .
    I have to give you credit Arsenalist, during this long dragged out BBall absence. I guess it’s only fitting that Bargnani keeps the talk going.
    .

    [ “The great positive here isn’t his
    performance, but that he’s playing competitive basketball and not drifting too
    far away from the game.” ]

    Couldn’t agree any more with this
    comment.

    .

    [ “My take on him is set in concrete
    now, I don’t expect him to get worse or improve ” ]

    There’s one philosophy I take to
    heart (otherwise you can get bit in the ass) – Never say Never. That philosophy
    should also apply to your set in concrete “analysis”.

    .

    [ “He’s going to be Duane Casey’s
    most interesting project, isn’t he? ” ]

    Absolutely!
    IMO, Triano was too easy
    and too late, while Mitch was too early and too fresh. In the beginning, Bargnani
    had confidence issues – for which I believed JT would have provided a calming
    effect. An “experienced” Sam (to go with his tough love) might’ve worked as a
    follow-up to Jay. And in the case of Duane Casey, he has “middle of the road” potential
    – with a mix of Mitchell & Triano.  

    .

    [ “ You couldn’t quite put your
    finger on it, but you knew when Chris Bosh’s time in
    Toronto was up. The same
    for Vince Carter and the same for Damon Stoudemire ” ]

    CB – intentionally or not – painted
    his own exit, while Vince Carter will always be an enigma to the Raptors, mom and
    all. And Damon never wanted to be here in the first place – from my perspective,
    that is. If you were to get a real and truthful answer from these 3 players,
    leaving Toronto was a good thing.  Bargnani
    is not as talented as these guys, but I would hazard to guess he enjoys Toronto
    much more than any of these 3 did. 

    .

    [ “Move ahead to the 2012-13 season,
    and you’ll have Jonas Valanciunas playing center, and Bargnani potentially
    moving to the power forward.  ” ]

    Andrea is a different type player –
    weighted more on the offensive side – while Amir, Ed, and Jonas (what little I
    know), exhibit similarities that have been portrayed as redundancies within the
    Bigs. They all play closer to the basket, and none have a legitimate 3 point
    shot – one of Raptors’ most understated weakness.

     

    AJ, ED, and JV may improve their
    offensive punch, but they have yet to experience focused attention (ie. double
    teams & such). As for whether Jonas & Andrea can co-exist, my bet is that
    one of Ed or Amir will move on – with the final decision on who goes, being
    determined by what BC can get coming the other way …. with emphasis on draft
    picks.

    .

  • Sheptor

    When will people realize that you don’t need a franchise guy. You need a good coach and good team players who collectively put the ball in the basket more than the other guys. BS salaries in a capped league, and the media’s need for individuality to stand out in team sports creates this dogma. “Bosh isn’t a franchise guy, and was the wrong horse etc.” completely takes away the responsibility of the other 11 guys sitting on the bench. Build a team. Bosh could have been on winning teams in T.O and Bargnani can too. If either are deemed THAT teams best player then so be it. But responsibility falls on everyones shoulders and for the disappointed Raptors fan-base we all need to lay off Bargs dick because he isn’t “The Guy” and can “never lead a franchise”…maybe not but the fact we haven’t been to the post-season in what feels like forever is managements, coaching, and the TEAMS fault. Let’s assemble a good team with or without Bargnani and make a run. But let’s not blame, or look to one player for taking us there.

    • Filthytwat

      well said….this fucking blame the teams woes on one player is fucking dumb. theres so many idiots and their dumb comments about getting rid of him like he’s nothing when whether you tools like it or not he is our best player. if the raptors franchise folded and they held a dispersal draft WHO DO YOU THINK WOULD GO FIRST? do you people not realize how hard it is to get a 7 foot scoring big who can hit free throws and hit 3’s with ease?… im not saying bargs is vince carter and he will never even be close because vince carter is and was the greatest raptor to ever don the uniform, but didnt we learn anything in dumping vince for alonzo,eric and arron williams? you people need to chill the fuck out and worry about the improvement of the 11 other players on this team…bargs is the least of our worries ITS the other players on this team that need to step the fuck up and improve….if we do dump bargs and demar by default becomes our fan bases fixation, do we run him out of town when we finish out of the playoffs and the teams shit? ID HOPE NOT, BECAUSE HE’S SOLELY A PIECE….makes me wonder if bargs didnt exsist and we were in this predicament with demar as the figurehead for the franchise, would the same cunts in here who trash bargs to no end be trashin demar?

      • declan was here

        Why do I smell stinky rotten fish when I read your posts? 

        • Filthytwat

          Sorry dirtbag. Thats the smell of Ackee and saltfish coming from your grease stained sticky shithole project kitchen.

  • Mediumcore

    Could there be any correlation between the fact that the Raptor’s were 2nd in the league in fast break points last season and why Bargnani didn’t improve his rebounding last season? Without Bosh in the line up to provide scoring in the post the Raptors had a much more up tempo offense last season and that naturally pulls players away from the post on defense. With Casey, I expect the Rap’s to revert back to a half court set which should put Bargnani in a much better position to rebound the ball. He averaged 6.2 boards during the ’09/’10 season and fell to 5.2 boards last season. I fully expect him to improve his rebounding next season under Casey’s slower half court style play.

    http://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/fastbreak-points-per-game
    http://www.nba.com/home/playerfile/andrea_bargnani/career_stats.html

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DANSRO43XQD3CLQZ2JFM5JZRQI 2damkule

      just to play devil’s advocate…if a team plays at a high pace (and i assume that’s the case with the raps, since they were ranked near the top in terms of fast-break points), it generally means that there are more total possessions (for each team) in the course of a game…which going further suggests that there are more shot attempts, and thus, more missed shots…which should mean that there were more TOTAL rebounds available.

      slowing down the pace of play, IMO, should have the opposite effect.  and since in five years we haven’t seen andrea grasp the concept of defensive/rebounding positioning, i’m not so sure why he’s going to master it now.

  • Emichael

    Defensive rebounds with no one around are highlights for Bargs.

    • Statement

      Lol.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DANSRO43XQD3CLQZ2JFM5JZRQI 2damkule

    ‘bona fide star?’  wtf, dude?  is that what putting up 20-something PPG garners one nowadays, ‘star’ status?  your standards are pretty fucking low.  i mean, demar put up 17…HE’S NEARLY A BONA FIDE STAR!!!!  imirite?

    the funny part of your post is that you mention that he (bargs) can do things that, ‘frankly no other centers in the NBA can do,’ while failing to mention that he (bargs) does the two things that are most important for a centre (defend & rebound) worse than almost every centre in the league.  but i guess that doesn’t count.

    POINTS!  SCORING!! YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!! 

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DANSRO43XQD3CLQZ2JFM5JZRQI 2damkule

    ‘bona fide star?’  wtf, dude?  is that what putting up 20-something PPG garners one nowadays, ‘star’ status?  your standards are pretty fucking low.  i mean, demar put up 17…HE’S NEARLY A BONA FIDE STAR!!!!  imirite?

    the funny part of your post is that you mention that he (bargs) can do things that, ‘frankly no other centers in the NBA can do,’ while failing to mention that he (bargs) does the two things that are most important for a centre (defend & rebound) worse than almost every centre in the league.  but i guess that doesn’t count.
    POINTS!  SCORING!! YAAAAAAAAAAAY!!!!!!!!

  • LeeZ

    The fourth item: clean rebound, uncontested. Well, yeah. BUT…he showed me something there that he NEVER, EVER showed in all his years here: he went out to contest the shot (nothing remarkable about that), BUT…instead of just standing there like a dopey statue after he contested the shot (like he ALWAYS DOES), he bounced back towards the basket to look for the rebound, and lo and behold, it was available. JUST BY DOING THAT ONE LITTLE THING ON A CONSISTENT BASIS, he will up his rebounding average by about 2. I know, I know. But a guy can dream, can’t he?

  • GLAMITY

    btw you ghettoheaded cunts…bargs with 22/9  n 2 blocks today….and latvia plays at 2pm and im hopin jonas plays well as well….you fake ass raptor fans,i’ll try find a report on amirs new hairdo and what new dance demars doin……theres no drew league game on today for you jerkoffs.

    • Nilanka15

      How many screen names is that for you Joshua Reynolds?  17?  18?  One for each one of Bargnani’s career rebounds?

  • Statement

    Is it possible to institute a ban-hammer policy on the forums.  This is getting silly.

    • Dumfugs

      arse is still steaming after watching arsenal get crushed and the other goofs are busy posting demar and ed’s lame tweets.

    • p00ka

      But generating activity. The purpose of the entry? Likely

  • GLAMITY

    great britain is givin lithuania a run for their money….jv gettin no minutes.

  • Guest

    at least this eurobasket has started, will watch “King” Bargs vs Germany tomorrow and hopefully Jonas will get some minutes vs Poland

  • Raptordan

    I forgot why I stopped reading the comments and only went into the forums.  On basketball sites, it always seems to degenerate into racist stuff.  Its sad that this is happening on RR.  Maybe when school is back in session this will die down?

    • Statement

      It’s simply the lack of interesting B-ball news.  The good commenters will be back when there is something to talk about.  In the meantime, you’ve got to give props to Arsenalist for churning out articles during a dreary (and getting moreso by the day) offseason.

      I submit that this was the worst time for Raps fans to have a lockout, simply because the sour taste left in the mouths of fans, with no real credible star starter on the team, by this season.  I know for me, that lingers. 

      In season’s past, the offseason would provide an opportunity to upgrade, or at least provide some hope of improvement, but not this season.

      For me, it’s the fact that the Jays currently suck (although much progress is being made by a great G.M.) and the Raps suck, and I don’t like the Leafs.  Just to much sports crappiness in Toronto.

  • cesco

     Watch #7 in blue vs Serbia
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bMuN40gM2wA
     

    • TYRONE

      no cornrolls n tats and no jiveturkey…me aint havin dat yo.

      • cesco

        I searched for a translation : no braids , no tattoos , no bullshitter , you mean it ain’t a basketball game ?? .

    • p00ka

      Wonder if we’ll get an analysis of that one.

      • points

        poo poo did you get some hugs to day come here

    • Pizzaman1

      cesco thanks for the link to the highlights which should be on a so called Raptor site, but instead the site is full of vermin who only come to this site to somehow blame all the Raptor problems on one player they happen to hate because he’s not throwing down uncontested jams in the summer league with the other hoods. I just don’t get how so many people can hate a player who has done nothing to them but play at any position the coach put him on with mostly useless players for teammates who cannot help him make this look like a real team.
      I cannot believe anyone who watches these Bargnani highlights or the actual game like some of us can be here slamming him at every turn, while praising nobody’s who have yet to do anything but dunk the ball in a 360 whoopee.
      In addition to the dicks and the super dicks, the head honch for this site is also playing to his audience of losers by throwing down the same hate, all while not really telling us how the rest of the so called hustlers can do anything on their own.
      What a joke this site has become. I read this shit and LMAO, but still come here to find links to real basketball being played by real players, while the dinks here watch summer league and get impressed hy hoods dunking on each other uncontested. I can see that shit by going to the neighborhoods, I do not have to watch it on video.
      Arse you should be ashamed of what you let this site of so called Raptor fans become!!

      • Nilanka15

        This is funny coming from a guy who has NEVER posted anything non-Bargnani related…

        • Pizzaman1

          While your statement is again untrue, you should look at your own comments and those of your peers as you condemn yourself since almost all of your comments turn into a post of how it’s all his fault. Pathetic

          • Nilanka15

            Actually, I don’t blame Bargnani for the Raptors current state of affairs.  I just think the team will eventually be better without him.  I don’t believe his “skills” are valuable enough to keep around, and in the long run, the team will be better off without his liabilities hurting them.  The same can be said about Calderon. 

            And in due time, I might be inclined to say the same about DeMar, Davis, Valanciunas and Amir.  But they haven’t played enough ball yet to say with any certainty.

            • Pizzaman1

              It’s just that every post here turns into why Bargnani sucks and get rid of Bargnani or some idiots ( not you) call him foul names and so on. It is real old because I come from a world where you look at people’s strengths and work with them on fit, and on a team that’s especially what I do versus looking only at weaknesses. If you spend just a little time on anyone you can rip their weaknesses apart because we all have them. At the same time we all have strengths and in basketball I happen to believe that you put complimentary strengths together. Of the list above I like them all however I have doubts about Demar ever being anything special but I hope he proves me wrong. He more so than Bargs is one dimensional in that he can drive to the hoop, but he has horrible handles, cannot pass, cannot dribble and cannot defend. I love Amir’s game and hustle and just plain old hard work but he is just that and a role player for limited minutes and will likely always be that.( he has also played lots of Bball and is not a rookie) I think Davis can be a great low post PF someday but needs to bulk up and get an offensive game which I believe he will. I believe Colangelo was brilliant in stealing Valanciunas and I believe he was the best player in the draft period. He will be a star in this league because he has the talent, is getting better, and he has the balls and determination that few have.
              I also happen to believe that Valanciunas and Bargnani paired with a very good SF can be an amazing front line in a couple of years with very complimentary skills, and with Davis getting minutes behind both the front court will be formidable.
              I believe DeRozan will get better but he also needs an ass kicking just like Bargs to start playing defense. He also needs to start looking for teammates, and he should spend his summers practicing how to dribble, and how to shoot instead of practicing in the summer slam dunk league with his homies. If he does not learn how to dribble and shoot then he will not be a very good SG and should be moved or used as a backup to a better player down the road.
              I still think Jose is light years ahead of Bayliss as a PG, and hope that our new coach can teach Bayless how to pass, when to shoot, and how to be a guy that makes his team way better and puts his team above himself, although I have my doubts because Bayless has shown he is selfish and temperamental hurting his team often. I will however give the new coach a chance to see what he can do with Bayless, Bargnani, DeRozan and the rest before I throw any of them out with the bathwater.
              Anyway I have my beliefs and watch this team through different colored glasses than most on this site, but it’s my right and I don’t wake up every day looking to bash someone.
              I support this team through bad and good, have bought season tickets since day one ( including no Bargnani) and will do so if they trade him or anyone else because I am a Raptors fan first and foremost, although I have a different view of players and talent, and future possibilities than some. Call me an optimist

              • Nilanka15

                In terms of individual player evaluations, I agree with almost everything you said.

                • Pizzaman1

                  great we found something we agree on!! A great start to a day. Meantime I respect you have a different view of what BC should and should not do and which players should play etc…
                  That’s why we live in Canada because we all have minds and make choices and it’s all good. My issue is the morons that come onto this site just to continually fling insulting names, foul words etc… They are probably all of 14 and in need of a good backhand to the head but unfortunately they diminish the quality this site once showed. Again just my opinion. Have a good day.

              • p00ka

                Mature and a real fan. Gives me hope for this place.

                • Pizzaman1

                  Thanks

                • Theswirsky

                  yes because thats Pizzaman for you……. never said anything derogatory about another, jumped to conclusions or attacked an individual without reason.

                  I’m just wondering who Pizzaman considers to be the kettle and who he considers to be the pot?

  • YeDig

    think bargs is a keeper for this coming year…see how he performs under casey and if his zone can hide bargs poor help side defense and rebounding.   @e984466bc905c9e853fe3f9f8f913958:disqus , if bargs averages 7.5 boards a game and the raptors win at least one more game in 2012 (or whenever) do you keep him?

    • points

      hell no the PUNANI name ANDREA has got to go!!!!!

      • Pointshasaids

        you and your families reliance on social assistance has got to go!!!!

        • Nilanka15

          [Joshua Reynolds]: “How dare anyone speak negatively about Andrea’s punani!!!  I’ll get you good by changing my screen name and making a grammatically-incorrect, lame joke.  That’ll teach ’em”

  • Gradgrind101

    WOW!!! The apathy on this site was killing me…Add a little Bargnani talk to bring out the venom.

    • points

      five years of you know what,leading scorer on a team thats under 400 big deal only leads his team in one cat. scoring… aleast Amir and DD leads in two and for me to go to the ACC and watch BC play this PUNANI name ANDREA over these kids who gives RAPTOR fans something to look forward is simply not right,building your team around a pussiess is just crazee, all i want is a normal NBA team and not a 7ft fake star who takes 18 shots to give you 22 points .if she is a scorer on a 300 team then she should be contending for the scoring title.

      ANDREA PUNANI   

      • p00ka

        So, you whine every day to get rid of a guy that gets 1.22 pts per attempt while being double teamed all year, because we have a SG (2nd option on a 300 team) that gets 1.21 pts per attempt, while not knowing what an NBA double team looks like yet, can’t shoot a 3 to save his life, has bad handles, and is a very poor defender. Sounds like a formula for success. BC, hire this guy for that GM spot!!!!!

        • Nilanka15

          In the most basic of forms, we can divide our roster into 2 types of players:

          1. “unknowns”, meaning we’ve seen both good and bad from these players in a relatively short amount of time (i.e. 3 years or less).  But it’s just too early claim final judgement on these guys because of how inexperienced they are.

          2. “what you see is what you get”, meaning these players have been around for long enough (i.e. 5+ years), and their pros and cons have been discussed/dissected by coaches, media, management and fans, without any noticeable changes.  There is little reason to believe these players will get better or worse in the near future.

          In my opinion, most of the roster falls under category 1: DeRozan, Davis, Amir, Valanciunas, Bayless, J.Johnson.  Category 2 would consist of Bargnani, Calderon and Barbosa.

          Based on this, there’s a flaw in comparing points per attempt between a player from category 1 vs. a player from category 2.  One has the “potential” to improve his scoring, (as well as other holes in his game), while the other is most likely to be the same player he’s been over the past 3 years.  In the same way a parent would be wrong to compare test scores of their 5th grader vs. their 1st grader, it’s wrong to take a snap-shot look at a young player’s stats, and compare it to that of a more established player in an attempt to determine which one is “better”, which is what you did in reply to points.

          • p00ka

            No, I’m not saying “one is better” at all. I’m a stubborn old bastard that was trying, once again, to show this pathetically obsessed kid how senseless his stat spouting diarrhea is.

            As for categorizing Bargnani as a “what you see is what you get” player, I don’t really agree, for quite a few reasons that seem to escape quite a few here, including you. We’ll see.

            In the meantime, he’s not leaving the Raptors any time soon. Some people really need to do something, they’re capable of, to relieve the torture they put themselves through. Sports is about FUN, and supporting a team is about FUN. Whining incessantly every day can’t be fun, and certainly won’t change anything the Raptors do with Bargnani. Personally, I’m looking forward to a new season sometime in the not too distant future, and seeing what progress the kids, including Bargnani, make under a new coaching staff.

            • Nilanka15

              Well said.  Point taken.

          • Gradgrind101

            Interesting points…

            There is a third type. The “Clutch” player. That is the guy who comes up BIG when the game is on the line. For instance look at Bosh. His stats are good but when the game is on the line he does not contribute at the same level and help his team win. He didn’t do it in TO and he definitely doesn’t do it in Miami. That third type is what every team hoping to win must have. Dirk Nowitski is the third type. He’s not a WYSISWYG. He is a crunch time performer going beyond his stats. Sometimes it takes years for a player to raise his game to the third level. Nowitski’s numbers haven’t changed much from his third or fourth year to now (13th) but he is definitely much better in the clutch.

            Surprisingly Bargnani is pretty decent (offensively) in late game situations. History tells us it will take him 5+ years (if he is still a starter) to make it to the next level.

            • Nilanka15

              To be fair, Dirk was averaging 25pts and 10rebs by his 5th year, in leading his team to a 60 win season.  He is arguably one the best players to ever play, and is a sure bet hall-of-famer.

              Bargnani mirroring Dirk’s career seems very unlikely to happen (though not impossible).  But in terms of an investment, how long is a team willing to wait?  In my opinion, 5 years is plenty long enough.

              • Gradgrind101

                I am about giving credit where it is deserved. I want to be clear…I am a Raptor fan first and foremost. 

                And because Bargnani plays on the Raptors I support him when warranted. People around here need to acknowledge that AB has some good points. He also has some bad points (like every single player in the NBA). In my opinion, like I said before, he doesn’t have any grit and he hasn’t shown any growth (this past year). But I don’t think he’s soft. He does face tough coverage every game and he can score against anyone. I think on defense he has been poorly coached. He constantly plays away from the basket (mainly due to porous perimeter D)Nowitski vs Bargnani (first 5 year averages)
                POINTS: DN=19.2  AB=15.2
                REBOUNDS: DN=8.0  AB=5.8
                SHOOTING %: DN=45.6  AB=43.6
                MINS/GAME: DN=34.3  AB=30.2

                Clearly Dirk is better. But keep in mind Dirk had Nash who was going into his 3rd year when DN arrived on the scene.  Also keep in mind that Dallas/Nash played an up-tempo game with more offensive opportunities and rebounding chances.

                That doesn’t put them on the same level but it does narrow the gap at least a little. One more thing to be said…Dirk is playing some of his best ball 13 years into his career. It may not work out here for AB but he may still improve with the intangibles of the game…

        • points

          like i said this is what the PUNANI name ANDREA is doing after 5 years as the first playa picked every body knows DeMar was raw coming in and like said i’m ok with three the hard way (the basket and one) as it puts the other team player in foul trouble.DD is growing into his roll and about this 2nd option thing ,the 2nd option is not too far off from the 1st option so i say get rid of the 1st option now that we have JV…about the GM job i hear that he’s looking for help mybe he’ll get the right guy who will tell him that PUNANI name ANDREA should be ARUJO back to ROME

        • points

          OH YAH! now your saying the pussiess name ANDREA was double team all year what about the other 4 years still double team look POOH the pussiess  name ANDREA has to go no if or but about it if you need a hug or a shoulder to cry on your not getin one the core is JV ED -DD-JB-AJ-JJ and two more to come and there is no room on this raptor team for the PUNANI name ANDREA this ARUJO with a three be gone you pussiess

  • Gradgrind101

    You can not build a team AROUND any one single player. Even if it’s Jordan or Shaquile or Lebron. You need a core of solid players. Granted sometimes you get teams like the 2011 Mavericks. They don’t have 2 or 3 studs like the Heat but they have a solid core of players who overachieved for a month or two. It’s great when it happens but you just can’t plan to win that way.

  • golden

    LOL.  Nothing like a Bargs article to stir up the sleeping Raps fans when interest in the NBA has gone almost comatose.  Like moths to flame….

  • points

    ANDREA looks real good playing her best basket ball at level 3 against these power house team and i think at the level she is playing at she could get MVP now we might not have to wait 13 years like DIRK … ANDREA LED HER TEAM TO 3 WINS SO FAR AND WILL DO THE SAME FFOR THE RAPTORS trustmi

  • arpeggi
    • GLAMITY

      and this is why arse and the rest of the wannabee bloggers here and the fake ass fans here at “raptor republic” can suck my fucking cock. bargs goes off for 37 7 AND 4 not one fucking mention from anybody?….then if a raptor fan does you get punkassniggers like points and nilanka berating it?…fuck this site. this aint a raptor fan blog…this is a bunch of fucking loser imposters….im embarrassed this site is on the web for people from canada and abroad to see.

      • Arsenalist

        Getting soooo tired of you…check the latest post.  

      • Kingraptors

        AGAINST FUKIN LATVIA that team is absolute garbage, don’t get too high on Bargnani’s 37 & 7 stat, because it was against a relatively weak team. 
        And you all seem to neglect that he didn’t do squat against Dirk & Germany, let me remind you what his stat-line was in that game.Bargnani: 8 points, 5 reboundsDirk: 21 points, 12 reboundsItaly’s leading scorer and rebounder – Gallinari 17 points, 11 reboundsThey play France(3-0) on sunday and we’ll see how Primo PastaMan performs against Joahkim Noah.

      • Tye

        It’s on the damn homepage, plastered there in plain sight for you to bask in, because we all know how you like to live vicariously through Bargnani.

      • points

        who cares all pussiesss are the same…how many times can she do that over 82 games in the NBA thats what we’re talking about

  • points

    PUNANI was in beast mode against that power house team watch out break year

  • ak

    i am tired of all the bargs hate. multipaul is right, we have a young team that will only get better. that we have to focus on. also this article is terribly one-sided.
    watching the highlights i was impressed at the help defence at the beginning of the clip and the way he threw a pass towards the end. i still believe he is not a starter but a very good first big of the bench. not because he lacks talent, but because he is all offence type of guy.

  • Bo4

    1) If a C/PF can’t rebound, he’s NOT a C/PF any team needs.
    2) Ed has 8 more years before he’s past his peak years.
    3) Andrea’s current rebounding IS during his peak years!
      
    If you can stand watching that sorry excuse for a C/PF, you’re NUTS! 

  • Nilanka15

    Davis has wonky knees?  Other than his preseason injury, his knees have been fine.  And did you forget that he’s only a rookie?  His offensive arsenal will improve given time.

    Amir is most likely a 6th man at best….but that doesn’t mean he’s worthless.  Every team needs a good bench.

  • Bo4

    I don’t care what nationality Andrea is, he still can’t rebound! He’s never in his entire career going to have 10 rpg over more than 30 consecutive games. He’s a SF in a C/PF body, and will only fit on a team that needs a SF. If we could start him a SF beside Amir & Ed, I’d give it a chance. But I’m not going to bet the house on that happening here …

  • Ihatehaters

    Yea. And if he got 6 more, he’d be averaging 13 RPG!

  • Nilanka15

    Bargnani doesn’t average 7 rpg.  He averages 5 rpg.  That’s a LONG way from 10 rpg.

  • Bo4

    a) I don’t see any facts from you, other than AB’s scoring. How many does he give up? What’s his net points?
      
    b) I’m 58, with two degrees and a certificate. Don’t call me son.
      
    c) I was a player coach in the game for 4 years. Were you?
     
    d) I want Amir & Ed to do what they already do, but better … rebound & block shots. Swings are supposed to be the scorers!
      
    e) The last time I was high, you probably weren’t even born yet.
      
    What are your facts, Nostradamus?

  • Nilanka15

    Amir missed just 10 games in his last 2 seasons in Toronto.  Bargnani missed 18 games over the same span.

  • Nilanka15

    And Davis played 65 consecutive games last year (after missing the first 17 due to his pre-season injury).  His knees showed no effects of injury.

  • Bo4

    Amir, Ed, Andrea = First Names
    51, 70, 187 = Blocks Per Minute Rank
    87, 42, 246 = Rebounds Per Minute Rank
    222, 307, 17 = Points Per Minute Rank
    Those are the facts.

  • Bo4

    1) There is an idiot among us.
    2) There’s more than one of them.
      
    Your loss … 

  • Mack North

    7.7 and 7.1, not too shabby for a rook who missed training camp and the first 17 games of the season. innit?

  • Emichael

    Andrea wouldn`t be able to play SF defensively. And yes, I am on a first name basis with him.

  • Emichael

    You have no idea what is going on with their bodies. You can’t know because you aren’t part of the Raps organization, so keep claiming that this guys knees are done and ______ is injury prone.

  • Nilanka15

    Yes, but that doesn’t mean his injury was career-threatening

  • Nilanka15

    He’s thrown under the bus because of his rebounding and defense, and the fact that he’s been a pro for 5 years and hasn’t learned a thing in those 2 regards.

    You can compare rebounding averages between Bargnani and Davis, but when you adjust for minutes played, the numbers tell a completely different story.

  • Nilanka15

    The Republic is encouraged by young, up-and-coming players, who have shown noticeable improvement recently.  Are they superstars?  Fuck no.  Do they have potential in turning this team around?  Who knows, but what we’ve seen so far is encouraging.

    Are you upset that Bargnani doesn’t fall under this category?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DANSRO43XQD3CLQZ2JFM5JZRQI 2damkule

    maybe i’m drawing too much from your statements, but you seem to have a problem with ballers of a certain pigmentation…or at least, background.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DANSRO43XQD3CLQZ2JFM5JZRQI 2damkule

    i would suggest not tasking some people to perform such advanced mathematics…

  • Nilanka15

    Bona fide star???  C’mon…

  • Statement

    bona fide star?  Lol.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DANSRO43XQD3CLQZ2JFM5JZRQI 2damkule

    oh, i know what DD tweeted…i just don’t see what your problem is with it.  and you do seem to have a problem.  maybe you don’t have enough homies?

  • Nilanka15

    I don’t know about you, but I certainly find a hustle guy off the bench, who can defend, rebound, stick open jumpers, draw charges, and is great in the PNR “encouraging”.  I’m sure Pat Riley would agree.

  • Nilanka15

    Ahahahaha, the classic Bargnani lover contingency plan.  When all logic fails, resort to nonsensical drivel and personal insults.  YAY POINTS!

  • Nilanka15

    Do you even know what “potential” means?

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_DANSRO43XQD3CLQZ2JFM5JZRQI 2damkule

    if you can find a single time i’ve said anything remotely close to that, please let me know.  what i’ve stated in the past about weems is that he & DD have similar skill-sets, but that weems doesn’t seem to ‘get it,’ and will likely never achieve the potential one would expect given his natural abilities.

  • Nilanka15

    lol, and you wonder why you were banned from the forums.  It has nothing to do with supporting Bargnani, and everything to do with being an utter douchebag.

    For whatever reason, you respond to legitimate criticism of Bargnani as if you ARE Bargnani himself.  You do realize that Bargnani doesn’t give two shits about what you (or I) think, right?  Why defend him like he’s your blood?  Why do you so passionately care that I think Bargnani stinks? 

    BTW, I fully understand that if Bargnani was the exact same player he is now, but was named Andrew Brown from Indiana, you wouldn’t give a rat’s ass about him.  Bargnani’s Italian, you’re Italian….VIVA ITALIA!!!

  • p00ka

    I somehow have my doubts that Albert Einstein could have put together a successful NBA team, so how much does advanced mathematics and selective individual statistics have to do with coaching or managing a pro team?

  • Nilanka15

    It was a little thing called sarcasm….

  • Nilanka15

    Your douchebaggery has nothing to do with your opinions on basketball.

  • Nilanka15

    Let’s just agree to disagree.  You believe Bargnani is Toronto’s MVP because of his scoring prowess.  I believe his scoring can be replaced if Bargnani’s defensive/rebounding liabilities are removed from the equation.  Let’s just leave it at that…

  • p00ka

    And my point is a little thing called looking at the bigger picture, rather than hanging onto selective and simplistic stats to determine value. Just as an example of how such views can be deceiving, how many of Ed’s RBs were against starters, or how many were during garbage time, or how were his rebounding numbers when on the court with Reggie? There’s a lot more to putting together a winning team than being a statistician.

  • GLAMITY

    is that what you got out of you you stupid simpleton?

  • GLAMITY

    eror correction…is that what you got out of it you stupid simpleton?…its a race thing?..its not him mocking you fucking morons who erupt with joy when you see “demars new kicks or new hairstyle or amir was wearing a blue jay cap yo”…..good job usuing the race card you fucking jerkoff.

  • Nilanka15

    Nobody is arguing against you.  The big picture IS important.

    But the initial point Truth was trying to make was that Davis’s 7 rpg isn’t much better than Bargnani’s 5 rpg, thereby implying that they’re similarly skilled in the rebounding department.  Whether you want to look at stats, or the big picture, this simply isn’t true.

  • Nilanka15

    Are you suggesting that because DeRozan has money now, he should sellout and ignore his hometown?  His roots?  His family?  His friends?  I’m sure that’s easier said than done.

    And who are you to dictate what is defined as “low class” vs. “high class”?  Seems like nothing more than arbitrary terms you’ve created to separate yourself from people you unfairly look down upon.

  • Statement

    This is just trolling. 

  • Statement

    Oops maybe I shouldn’t feed the trolls.  Nevermind the last comment.

  • Nilanka15

    What factors are you using to separate “classes”?  Personal income?  Socio-economic status?  Crime rates?  Grasp of the English language?  Education?  The type of car one drives?  The size/location of one’s home?

    Do any of these matter when discussing the Raptors?  Not in a million years.

  • Nilanka15

    22/9 in a blowout loss to Serbia.  Put Bargnani in the hall of fame!

    BTW, you just gave props to a guy who thinks Jonas plays for Latvia.  Well done Bargnani fanboys.  You constantly prove to know nothing about the Raptors.

  • Statement

    I believe the expression is “crazy cracka”

  • Filthytwat

    hi im joshua reynolds im not italian and i dont look at the players nationality or color. explain me being one of bargs biggest fans you fukwad.

    lawd have mercy,u dumb shitstain…if andrea bargnani was andre bargwani and he was black and from the states youd be rocking his jersey and going buckwild dat “he be the illest mos skilled 7 footah to evah pla da gayme yo!”

    dont front u cunt.

  • Nilanka15

    Right, because no “high class” individual has ever committed a crime….[rolling eyes]

  • RapthoseLeafs

    .
    This is part of the problem. You paint with a wide brush Ni.
    .

  • Captainahab

    The degrees are boring. Tell us about the certificate.

  • points

    your gay

  • points

    your gay guy

  • p00ka

    Finally, he’s got something positive to say!!! Good boy

  • points

    and its not about the pussiess name ANDREA

  • points

    thats something romans do hommie don’t play that