Cavaliers 77, Raptors 92 – Box

Cleveland did not have a chance. The Raptors have suffered three losses where they’ve played well enough to win on the given night, and ended up losing. That painful feeling of defeat when you’re so close to winning has made this team appreciate nights like these a lot more, nights where a win is there for the taking if you approach the contest with a professional flair. And that the Raptors did. Clevleand was playing on a second night of a back-to-back, which can’t have helped, especially in the second half when the tiring of their limbs coincided with the ascension of the Raptors, specifically Andrea Bargnani.

I would classify this game as a “routine win”, which the Raptors are capable of nabbing if they play with the same professionalism and discipline that they have adopted towards the young season so far. It’s hard to count how many times over the years the Raptors have gone into one of these “winnable” games and laid an egg. Home games against the Timberwolves, Clippers, Wizards, and countless other minnows were lost by Raptor teams who were, on paper at least, “better” than the current crop.

This is the type of basketball that we’ve been thirsting for since Vince Carter turned pussy on us, since Oak left town, since the time when the Raptors were viewed as the team with the potential in Toronto. It’s only six games in but the early returns suggest that the tide is turning and that an environment that can foster growth is being cultivated. I might be getting too dramatic, and if so forgive me, for I can’t help but feel a strange inkling of something resemgling pride in me as I watch these Raptors compete every night. This is a sight for sore basketball eyes.

Let’s complete the formalities of a post-game article and go through this one with in a cursory manner.

Andrea Bargnani has become the focal point of the offense without dominating the ball or run of play. That is a beautiful thing because he’s not taking away shots from anyone, the offense isn’t geared towards him, and yet he manages to be the player that is getting you the bucket when you need one the most. Those run-killers, momentum-shifters, crowd-boosters, are all coming from Bargnani right now, all in the flow of the pace-reduced offense the Raptors are running.

His game is mixed as well, and tonight’s rematch against Antawn Jamison yielded surprising results. Even at 36, you expect Jamison to be the more agile player capable of giving Bargnani problems off the bounce, and that is the opposite of what transpired. Jamison did get his points through an assortment of ways, however, it was Bargnani that dominated the one-on-one matchups and gave Jamison a taste of his own medicine – pump-fakes, blow-bys, and sheer quickness off the bounce.

The post-moves are becoming more fluid as he’s increasing with confidence, and the confidence in my opinion is being instilled on the defensive end. He’s not a joke of a defender anymore, and anyone can see that he’s finally doing his part, and perhaps even more on defense. Bargnani is now playing like a team player, instead of a guy with a sense of entitlement who plays one end. If you play ball, you know. You make a good defensive play on one end, your teammates salute you, you feel like you’ve contributed. That’s what’s happening with Bargnani. I mean, diving on the floor against Varejao? Wow.

At the end of the first the Raptors had a three point lead, when it really should have been more. They shot 50% for the quarter, and Cleveland missed some clean looks while shooting only 30%. Bargnani was again carrying the load for us, with Jamison doing the same for Cleveland. A short James Johnson and Jose Calderon (13pts, 11ast, ate Kyrie alive) burst to start the second quarter gave the Raptors an eight point lead, which they rode for most of the quarter until giving a piece of it back late. DeMar DeRozan’s 3-3 from threes is what stands out in the quarter statistically, what I noticed was the other little things.

Ed Davis is struggling with his confidence right now, and I think the Raptors need to give him the ball a little more to help him out. He’s got a developing post-up game and it might not be a bad idea to throw him a bone once in a while in the block. James Johnson had a very good defensive game, he was supreme last night against any of Cleveland’s threes in closing out baselines, dropping down to help against Varejao, and coming in to close any plays near the rim. He had a block from behind on Tristan Thompson that could be the best play in this game (other than Bargnani’s reverse baseline moves).

The general positioning on defense is simply better. Guys aren’t worrying about covering their ass anymore and are helping out intelligently, knowing with confidence that there’s cover in the rotations. There’s a trust factor in defense that everyone on the floor needs to have in order to be successful, and Casey has done well to instill it. The Raptors almost always push the ball handler further out on any wing screens using their big, and there’s always cover for that big. Small thing that can get missed when watching a fast-paced game, but notice it, it’s always there!

It was a seven point game at the half and the third was when this one was put away, largely thanks to Bargnani’s 11 in the quarter, and Cleveland’s offense coming to terms with it’s quality. I sound like a broken record, but it’s true: Bargnani was the man in this game and scored whenever it felt that Cleveland might have a lifeline left in them. DeRozan will get a lot of ink for his breakout game consisting of mostly threes that you or I would otherwise cringe to see him take, however, let that not shroud the fact that Bargnani was the man.

The fourth was a mere formality. The Raptors are 3-3, which nobody expected. The halftime interview had James Johnson speaking with Leo, and he said the key phrase that defines this Raptors season so far: no expectations.

It’s so true. There are no expectations of this season, most fans including myself are expecting this team to suck, suck and suck hard, land a high pick and continue with the building process alongside Jonas. Almost everyone has counted these guys out and the Raptors are responding to the pressure-free environment by kicking ass.

Stay tuned later in the day for the first edition of the Statophile with Tom Liston.

  • Joe Panini

    I think what is great about the Raptors this year is the chemistry, the players, they just scream “TEAM” whenever I see them. I love how they all got back to Toronto so quickly to practice and train together. I love how whenever a player is down, every Raptor on the court will help the downed player up. I love how they seem to be “there” for each other. How there isn’t a focus on single players like before, everything seems so natural, so fun, so easy. There is a commitment to each other and to the coach, which I’ve never seen before.

    The defense isn’t stellar, but where they might lack in defensive instincts or even skill, they fully make up for it with tremendous effort and heart. My hat goes off to Casey, what a change he has brought to Toronto, what a change.

    I love where this team is heading, and I am so excited for what the future can bring for this team. It’s not often I feel excited as a faithful Raptors fan, but that has changed. It’s a new era for the Raptors, it’s a new era for Canadian basketball.

  • Lucamacus

    Yay, the raps are fun to watch again. I still don’t see them winning many more than 20 games though.

    • Brian B

      Not sure I’d say “fun to watch”… unless you consider “winning ugly” fun- because IMHO it was an UGLY game. Raps won more by default than through success, though credit to them for effort & energy. waiting to see how they fare against some quality opponents.

      • c_bcm

        I dunno about that. It was ugly because the Raptors played good defence. This was a solid win against a bad team. The score is what it should be when playing against Cleveland on a second night of a b2b, when you have a good defensive scheme. Simple as that. Solid win. Fun game to watch.

        • 2damkule

          this will be the test for fans this year…whether they can continue to appreciate ‘this brand’ of ball (defensive-oriented, slow pace) when they lose more often than they win.

          • Truthkiller

            If you appreciate winning basketball then by keeping your opponent to 40% shooting and limiting the number of points they score < 100ppg is the recipe for good defense. It's a cliche but offense wins games, defense wins championships. Just compare the Suns and Spurs.

          • c_bcm

            I agree with you. The fans have to keep in mind that the Raptors are finally developing a brand of basketball that will allow them to win. Up tempo play is exciting for 3 quarters, but when teams are grinding out the last 5 minutes of a game, defence will win it for you more often then not. In the end I think the fans will appreciate the wins, and the love for this new style will come.

            • sleepz

              +1

        • Brian B

          It was ugly as much as anything because other than AB, JC and DD, most of the time, the other Raptors looked like a bunch of stiffs brought in from a playground. The sub 100 point performance was as much a testimony to the ineptitude of the Cavs as anything the Raptors did. The Cavs looked REAL bad…

          • Rapsallday

            Yes, because of the defense of the Raps….Give them credit where they’re due…

  • onemanweave

    There’s been a ‘fanboy’ vs. ‘hater’ civil disturbance on this blog.  Sign me on as a ‘fan boy’. To be a fan, you have to be a boy. 
       It is not adult, or even rational to care what happens to a bunch of strangers, getting played millions for playing a game in their pajamas, but I do.  I used to feel that way about the Celtics — Russell using gamesmanship and intellect and guts to diffuse Wilt; Sam Jones banking em in; KC guarding the wings; Hondo coming off the bench.
       I feel that way about the Raps. I care. No rational reason for it. Fan boy.
      In the past few seasons I’ve been a hater. May revert to that. Kids are fickle. I’ve hated the lack of effort, the ‘blue and white disease’ on hardwood and Colangelo’s futility at making things better.
       The great debate is now shifting to ‘playoffs vs. lottery’.  know what, I’m gonna kick back and let the season settle that. I enjoyed that game last night. I loved seeing those white shirts swarm on defence; liked the effort I saw from Bargs; the continued fine play of Jose and DD’s new-found bombsight.
        Couple of points — it’s a deep draft. No Lebron’s standing head and shoulders above everyone else.  There are good players available throughout the first round and serviceable ones in the second.  Let’s no get TOO focused on ping pong balls.
       Secondly — Lets not get carried away with team’s improvement. This is a paper-thin roster. An injury here or there and things head south in a hurry.
      Finally– for all those salivating about JV and a top pick — it will take time. Almost always does.  Lew Alcindor changed things in a hurry. So did Lebron. Most rookies take time to really impact a poor team.
       Destination for 2012? Who knows. Let’s just enjoy the ride.

    • Bendit

      Nice post.

    • Matt52

      I agree with Bendit, nice post indeed.

      The forums have good conversation which you would be a welcome addition.  It is moderated tightly within the rules and guidelines.  If you have not already done so, check it out.

    • Roarque

      Ditto. Oh, and pound the rock.

    • dalmatino

      Thank you. I really appreciate your thoughts. At last, a voice of wisdom came to this forum ( joke – :) )

    • p00ka

      Superior job “onemanweave” !!! Every single point, and a collective masterpiece

    • Vivek333

      Great post!

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      So according to you in order to be a ‘fan’ you have to be a ‘boy’.

      What about the females that support Raptors basketball? Fangirls?

      Fan is short for:

      Fanatic (A person marked or motivated by an extreme, unreasoning enthusiasm, as for a cause- in this case Raptors basketball and/or BC).

      Boy (an immature male child, a man regarded as immature or inexperienced, a male servant or employee).

      So you believe it’s alright to be blind supporters of, in this case, Raptors basketball not questioning anything while accepting everything in relation thereof like a little boy?

      Critical thinking, intelligent, mature basketball supporters is a must especially if said Franchise is asking for money from its fan base to support its product.

      As well ‘hater’ is a strong word that promotes hate and that opens up doors for all sorts of bigotry and the like justified by the unjustifiable- even my (Societal) conditioning has been conditioned.

      Let’s just enjoy the ride like mindless boys……smh

      • Commentor

        Lol, what the hell would you know about critical thinking? “Bargnani stole Ed Davis’s PF spot” Lmao.

      • Hound

        There is something seriously wrong with you. Onemanweave has one of the best posts this year and you can’t see that. WOW!. And stop pushing the like button yourself. No way there are 2 other people who agree with you.

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          Wow….mind control we must all think alike…smh

  • cesco

    Anyone who prefer this type of offense ( let us forget the defense for a moment ) to the one with Mr. Freeze-the-ball-10seconds leading the way raise their hands .

    • c_bcm

        ||/_
       
         []
         []
         []

      • Lucamacus

        is that a penis with hair growing out the tip?

    • Nilanka15

      Why bother bringing up Bosh at all except to start an argument?

      • K.J.P

        How about when Bargs makes the AllStar team and Mr.Bosh does not, lol.

        • Nilanka15

          It’s fair to say that Bosh will get his share of unworthy fan votes simply because he plays for the Heatles.

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      CB put it down for the Raptors while he was here- playoffs anyone, and made a grown man decision to leave- point blank, he’s in Miami chillin’ like a villian making NBA championship runs not NBA Lottery runs- recognize game, if you should be ripping anybody it’s BC for not getting enough in return for CB (CB TPE?) then trying to say that he’s not a ‘Melo type of player plus many other self serving media spin bullchit particulars after the fact.

      Also, I have noticed that AB tends to hold onto the ball at times as well.

      That being said, it’s about time to trade the 2 longest tenured Raptors under BC- Jose & AB, while they are playing well (trade high) because there is no telling with their past NBA history how long this type of solid play will last.

      BC needs to get all that he can (draft picks, young players) for both players and add that to the current & near future TDot mix.

      I still hold out a slim hope that BC somehow will convince both DH & DWill to join forces in Toronto by the TD or next off season as the Raptors have the assets (some combination of- AB, Jose, Ed, Amir, DD, Val, 2012 #1 draft pick) & potential cap space (especially if the Raptors decide to amnesty a player next off season) to make it happen.

      • raptorsdd10

        AB playing pf is a beast…would not even consider letting him go

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          So you trade him when stops playing good?

          The one thing consistent about AB after 5 NBA seasons is his inconsistency- he has to play well off the bat in order to justify his move to PF- recognize game, let’s see what he looks like after 50 games.

          Btw- the Raptors game announcer has announced AB as the Raptors starting center- I wonder if any folks at the ACC/watching on TV caught on to that particular during the home games?

          • raptorsdd10

            when i signed up to RR there wa sa q asking who the starting C is…i put johnson and they said it is incorrect…he is playing PF though..

            lets not forget who coach the raps the past couple years…now that we have a real coach AB is playing real good..i know it is too early but we can assume it is a temporary thing..hes got talent

            • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

              Let’s not forget who hired Jay after going 25-40 to a contract- BC.

              It was done for Jay to coddle AB so to see AB finally trying hard all of 6 games into his 6th NBA season is nothing to get excited about.

              He has talent especially offensively but lacks the heart to compete for 82 games on both ends of the court at a high level- the biggest guy on the Raptors at 7’1 250 pounds crying in the media that he’s not a center but a PF yet Atalnta has Al Horford all 6’8 3/4 w/o shoes of him manning the center position while making the playoffs.

              AB’s PF fetish, sponsored by BC, is setting Ed’s development back big time in this throw away season.

              • Marlon

                Lmao… you need to stop with this “AB is stealing Ed’s minutes” bullshit, you look like a bigger fool than you already are.

        • WHAT THE

          we’ve got too much invested (5yrs.) in #7 to let him go now that a new coach has got him and the team going in the right direction and I also think other players are starting to fear him,trust they watch the highlights if this coach can keep the fire under Bargs and get him to play at this level consistantly I say we got our selves a playa puSH him CASEY!! PUSH him…also WANTED (SFand Kabongo)and home grown jason kapono in the second round  

      • p00ka

        Your hope is about as slim as mine that every GM in the league, except BC, will adopt your kind of brilliance

  • KaioKev

    The Raps aren’t playing as exciting basketball as last year but the effort they’re puttin in this year at the defensive end makes up for it. Eventually, when this effort becomes standard to us we will all just be focusing on wins and playoffs but thats not until next season. For now we can enjoy what the Raptors coaching staff has brought up over the first 6 games. We will hope for the same effort and heart throughout their next few games as. Looking forward to seeing them play against Minny.

  • FAQ

    Why do I suspect that BC has told Bargs that they intend to trade him soon to get younger players for the rebuild.  Bargs no longer has the box office appeal necessary to put bums in the seats so he must go.

    To get dealt to a playoff team, like Miami, he must improve his game and stats, which he is doing. Now he must avoid crippling injury while being worked hard, to prove his worth. Oh, btw, Miami may be trying to trade Bosh because he’s like a third tit on the team… while somebody like Bargs would be ideal.

    So, don’t fall in love with Bargs because his future with the Raptors is shaky, and if he get’s injured it’s game over for the shaky Raps.

     

    • 2damkule

      ‘Why do I suspect that BC has told Bargs that they intend to trade him soon to get younger players for the rebuild’

      is it because you’re an idiot?

      • cesco

        No need to say FAQ is an idiot , he predicted 0-66 . Let us call him        ” troll#1 ” and leave it at that .

      • AB7.38pt.on.cb4

        “Why do I suspect that BC has told Bargs that they intend to trade him soon to get younger players for the rebuild”
        is it because you’re a loser ?

      • Da_saint00

        lol… why so rude?

    • p00ka

      As tempted as it may be to express my gratitude for this fantastic insight (is that how one spells sarcasm?), the troll is just a pathetic baiter.

    • Hound

      First off. Miami can’t trade Bosh. Nobody, and I mean Nobody would take his contract. BC is not going to trade the one allstar who actually wants to play in Toronto.

      You couldn’t possibly still be in the bag from New Years Eve could you?

  • AB7.38pt.on.cb4

    Review of 2nd Half – JJ and JM

    James Johnson : A defense monster-naute. Blocks, several deflections, charges, superman.              
    The intangible : 4th 5:00 dish for AB behind the arc and raise his arm in approval just after the three is launched.He knew it !

    Big Cat Jamaal Magloire: 3rd 2:45 Time out Tapping on the back of DD in approval, next scream several times “Pound the Rock – Pound the Rock”
    The intangible: 3rd 2:40 out of the time out grabs Hollins under the basket with a shooting foul -meaning- you are not having an easy one tonight

  • c_bcm

    What I enjoyed most about watching this game was that everyone seemed to be having a really good time. Every player was smiling, hi5ing, encouraging each other. I loved it. Demar was so excited to see his 3pointers fall, he celebrated each time. Which normally would bother me, but i’ll give him a pass when its your breakout game for that skill. Bargs was smiling, celebrating after big plays, hitting big shots.

    Even though it was against Cleveland, I enjoyed watching this game almost as much as the Dallas win last season. But for different reasons.

  • voy

    alot of this year’s success has also been eliminating the 30+ points other teams use to drop on us as uncontested layups.  There was a stat shown on last night’s television broadcast, I think it was points allowed in the paint.  Last year we were 30th.  This year we’re 2nd.  SECOND!!! Jeezus, can you believe that?  On the radio halftime show yesterday, Calderon commented how the difference this year, he thinks, is a team philosophy on defence.  Whatever the difference is, I am loving it.

  • 2damkule

    things that are bothering me about this season, so far:

    jose’s hair.  WTF, dude, get yourself to first choice or something, lay down $10, and get that sad mop clipped.  don’t worry, the growing bald spot won’t be any more noticeable if your hair is shorter.  tip: make sure they get rid of those NSYNC-ish sideburns while you’re there.  as for ball – i didn’t like how he was letting himself get trapped/pushed out high on the screen by the hedger (usually floppy), 35-feet from the hoop.  he’s smarter than that.

    rasual butler.  just, rasual butler.  like JJ, but worse.

    andrea bargnani’s new-found devotion to D.  so, it can’t be ALL casey, right?  some of this is on him, that he’s matured to the point that he realizes he needs to take ownership of his career.  he didn’t need someone else to tell him that…right?  and he’s not going to need someone continuously telling him that…right?  so, it only took 5 years & 2 coaches to drive the point home?  was it a matter of ‘right coach, wrong time’ with respect to smitch (i.e. are casey’s & smitch’s coaching philosophies that radically different?  is it more a case of andrea being more willing/able – at this stage of his development – to put into practice the things that smitch was asking of him then, and casey is asking of him now)?  oh, and just to be sure i’m ‘hating’…where are those 2 rebounds/quarter, huh?  just kidding (sort of)…i’ve REALLY liked what i’ve seen from him.

    derozan – shot still looks wonky & inconsistent (mechanics-wise), but it’s going in, so…yeah, i dunno either.  he’s bound for some significant ups/downs with his shot, but hopefully, teams will have to prepare to defend him tighter on the perimeter, which should open up driving/cutting lanes (whether he sits back on his jumper or goes to the hole is on him).  defense is looking marginally better, but that may simply be a factor of the scheme. 

    james johnson.  when he just plays, he’s fine.  when he tries to think while playing, it’s trouble.  and fugly.  when’s russian tank commander due back?

    ed davis.  as a fan, i’ve found the first 6 games puzzling…he seems detached from the action, hesitant to get involved, tentative with his shot.  1st half last night was more of the same…then someone spiked his gatorade (jose!), ’cause what he showed in the 2nd half is the guy i (and many others) have expected to see from the get-go.  WE CAN BUILD ON THIS!  one thing he needs to learn is how to create space in the post while he has the ball so he has room to elevate.  too many of his at-the-rim shots are contested/blocked outright simply because he’s not getting enough lift.  some of it is simply a matter of adding strength, but there are issues with footwork that need to be addressed.

    • Nilanka15

      RE: Davis, I think his post move (and yes, he only seems to have one) is too predictable.  One look at the scouting report will tell you he’ll attempt a left-handed jump-hook every time he’s in an ISO.  He’s gotta add a little more variety to his game.  A good start would be getting comfortable using his right hand.

      • 2damkule

        agree, 100%.  but post moves come with time, reps, confidence, practice, strength/conditioning, etc (i.e. all things that are going to be difficult to achieve now that the season has started).  right now, i think the most important thing for him is confidence, and for a young, athletic player with few post moves, one way to create that confidence is with high-% attempts (read: dunks), which require creating/clearing enough space to elevate. 

    • Cloudy with a chance of Bargs

      “are casey’s & smitch’s coaching philosophies that radically different?” I don’t know if their philosophies are so different, but their methods of how to get it done certainly are. Right from the start, seeing the whole ‘pound the rock’ slogan being implemented with AN ACTUAL ROCK being hoisted in to give the team a visual and tangible reminder that cannot be ignored, seemed a genius move to me. This guy – Casey – understands subtleties of motivation that Smitch (at the time, at least), and maybe many others, do not. And I don’t recall Smitch’s teams playing anything near this brand of defense, though I could be mis-remembering on that one.

      • Nilanka15

        I mentioned this in the forums, but we can’t give Casey much credit for that “pound the rock” idea because other teams use the same approach (San Antonio and Miami). 

        But even if Casey stole it, it seems brilliant compared to Triano’s “blank stare” coaching philosophy.

        • Cloudy with a chance of Bargs

          “… it seems brilliant compared to Triano’s ‘blank stare’ coaching philosophy” … or my favorite, the ‘sitting hunched over chewing his nails’ coaching philosophy. 

          As for the ‘pound the rock’ not being Casey’s idea … I suppose that’s true (I read that somewhere as well), but considering how few genuinely new ideas there really are out there, it might be more a matter of what you choose to implement and how you actually do it. Regardless, the timing of Casey joining this organization at this moment might have an element of serendipity going on, for both him and us. So far so good. 

    • Cloudy with a chance of Bargs

      And … fwiw, I kind of like Jose’s silly sideburns and unruly hair. Sort of a ‘comfort in the familiar’ kind of thing. 

      Always enjoy your posts, btw. 

    • cesco

      In his second year in the NBA , Smitch had him as the FIFTH option on offense .  Even Bosh at the time said that Andrea need to touch the ball more often . So it cannot be argued that Smitch was doing his very best to try to have AB traded . He failed and got fired instead . Where is he now ? .

      • sleepz

        lol. where are you now? underneath Andrea’s bed keeping the springs from uncoiling?

        in Andrea’s 2nd year he took 725 shots and shot 38% from the field. Only Bosh and A. Parker took more shots then he did.

        • cesco

          He took that many shots because he was supposed to . He believed he could become a great scorer . He said himself later on that he was lazy on defense and wanted to improve that aspect . He needed the right coach that used him as a PF and could teach defense to the whole team and perform or else . Neither Smitch or Triano will ever be head coaches in the NBA again .

          • Nilanka15

            But you said he was the “FIFTH” option.  How do you take the 3rd most shots if your the fifth option?

  • Nilanka15

    I’m happy with the improved defensive effort so far, but I’m trying not to get too excited knowing that 2 of our 3 wins have come against Cleveland.  Yes, we played tough against Dallas and Orlando, but there’s a big difference between closing out games against the Clevelands of the league, versus playoff-hardened teams.

    Having said that, we could very well be 4-3 after Friday.  New Jersey is not a team that scares anyone, but if memory serves correctly, Deron Williams has always torched Calderon.

    Someone mentioned it a few days ago (perhaps voy), but Calderon definitely needs a haircut before he officially changes his name to Borat, lol.  Speaking of celebrity look-alikes, when I look at J.Johnson, all I see is a thicker Marlon Wayans 😐

    • 2damkule

      dwill missed last night’s game, is he a go for friday?

      • Nilanka15

        Not sure…something about bruised ribs after colliding with Hansbrough.  He’ll probably be a game time decision tomorrow.

    • rapsallday

      OMG that’s so true!!!lol…

  • Nilanka15

    Happy with DeMar’s performance, but I don’t think I’m going out on a limb by saying we can’t rely on him shooting 63% from beyond the arc all season.  His handles still look extremely wonky and uncomfortable, and as a shooting guard, his inability to create his own shot will be the biggest aspect that holds his career back.  IMO, his handles are a bigger problem than his defense, and it doesn’t seem to be improving.

    • 2damkule

      hey…remember that mock poll i put up on the forums that they took down almost immediately?

      • Nilanka15

        lol, yes.  Let’s see how the dust settles after the 19 games in 31 nights this month, before we get too jubilant 😉

        • 2damkule

          nah, i say that the best course of action is to jump to conclusions wherever & whenever possible, hopefully with the least bit of evidence as possible.

    • WHAT THE

      Easy there one thing at a time

  • AB7.38pt.on.cb4

    to the:
    PICK DRAFT TANKING MANIACS———————————–

    NBA DRAFT 2006

    3-A.Morrison
    4-T.Tomas
    6-B.Roy (unlucky)
    or
    13-Sefolosha
    21-R.Rondo
    24-K.Lowry

    NBA DRAFT 2007

    1-Greg Oden
    4-M.Conley
    6-Yi Jianlan
    or
    16-N.Young
    23-W.Chandler
    24-A.Brooks

    NBA DRAFT 2008

    2-M.Beasley
    3-O.J.Mayo
    8-J.Alexander
    or
    24-S.Ibaka
    25-N.Batum
    26-George Hill

    NBA DRAFT 2009

    2-Thabeet
    4-T.Evans
    6-J.Flynn
    or
    17-J.Holiday
    18-T.Lawson
    19-J.Teague

    • 2damkule

      yes, thanks for pointing out that in every draft, in every sport, ever, there are players picked at or near the top who are busts, and those who are picked lower who turn into legit players, if not stars.  very revelatory. 

      is your next post going to document the top-10 picks who turned out to be all-stars/HOF-calibre players, and those picked outside the top-10 who amounted to zero?

      did you know that on average, a 2nd round pick has the same on-court impact as a player signed to a 10-day contract?  and yet, there have been some very very good players picked in the 2nd round.  HOW WEIRD!

      • sleepz

        U beat me to it.

      • cesco

        You are right that an all-star player is more than likely to come out of the first 5 picks  . However finding a solid NBA player or better is possible with the lower picks , so it will all depend on how good the scouting reports are . I am sure that the focus of these scouts is now enlarging to have a look at players being picked 15th and down since the chances of the team making the playoffs are now a little more than the 5 % or so the experts forecasted  .

    • Nilanka15

      You can blame bad luck, and poor scouting for all those bad picks.  But the fact remains that the higher the selection you have, the better your odds of getting an elite player.  That’s not my opinion, that’s the truth about statistical probabilities.

      Your list implies that drafting high doesn’t guarantee landing an elite player.  But nobody said it was guaranteed, so you’re essentially arguing against an idea that never existed.  Drafting high simply gives you a better probability of improving you team.

      And lastly, your hand-picked list conveniently left out names like LaMarcus Aldridge, Kevin Durant, Al Horford, Derrick Rose, Russell Westbrook, Kevin Love, Eric Gordon, Blake Griffin, Steph Curry, and Ricky Rubio, who I’m sure even you would love to have on this team.

      • AB7.38pt.on.cb4

        and AB7 lastly as well

        • Nilanka15

          Thanks for completely ignoring the point of my post.  You bring so much value to this site.

          • AB7.38pt.on.cb4

            If you don’t get the point why should I answer to you. My draft Title is TANKING MANIAC.

            Beware to the followers of tanking to pick top 5, because is plenty of examples (John Wall anyone ?). 

            Play your best and after march, BC-DCasey and  Co. will decide the best to do (sitting DD AB JC if needed). 

            Im not arguing at any idea, statistical probabilities is not enough to tank and get a perennial loser team  mentality

            Bad teams picks often bad players (WAS anyone?)

            My idea is just to switch the pick and a player for Rondo and add J Terry.

            Finally, there’s no LBJ-BGriffin-K.Durant-D.Rose in next draft. It’s just a deep draft.All GM are saying it

            • 2damkule

              uh, i think Nil got YOUR point, but you seemed to gloss over his.

              FWIW – what you’re saying is true (or, it contains ‘truthiness.’  one or the other), but i think you’re stretching things a bit.  certainly including john wall as a guy you’d want to avoid picking reeks of NO SENSE WHATSOEVER.  wash sucks because the players around wall are complete & utter dogshit, one-dimensional meatheads.  you put him on a decent team with even average, non-meathead players, and wowsers.  dude is a special, special talent.  put it this way…there isn’t a player on the raps the wiz would trade wall for straight-up.

              oh, and yes, this draft is considered deep, but the primary reason that there hasn’t been one player to rise above anyone else is a) it’s still early in the college season, b) the fact it is so deep & so talented prevents that from happening.

              the example you cite (LBJ, griffen, rose, durant) were all in different draft classes, and in each of those classes, there were a very small handful of guys at the top of the draft – and in each case, there was such a clear drop-off from the top-2 or 3 to, say, the 7th or 8th pick, that it was fairly easy to pinpoint who was at the top. in this draft, you could literally have anyone picked in the top-8 (or so) turn out to the be ‘the guy’ from this draft (and yes, it could even be a guy picked even later). it’s not that there’s a dearth of potential franchise guys, it’s that there are more potential franchise guys than normal that’s muddying the waters.

              • AB7.38pt.on.cb4

                John WallLike Al Jefferson, the reason I am disappointed with Wall isn’t because he has played so poorly, but rather just that the bar was set much higher going into the season. After battling injuries in his rookie year, many expected Wall to come back and put up 20 a game this season, but he has fallen off, to only 14.5 points per game, while he is also getting less assists with only 6. 5 per game so far. The worst part may be that the Wizards are 0-5, after having much higher hopes this season based on the continued improvement of their core.brett Davis Roberts -Yahoo Sports NBA

            • voy

              what exactly is “tank mode” for the raptors?  when they sit rasual butler and give me the starting sf position?

              no one I heard is calling for a tank job.  and secondly, its practically impossible for this team to go into tank mode cuz they are so thin talent-wise.

              I think we all want to see as many wins as possible but most of us suspect “reality” will soon set in.  Doesn’t mean we want to see a tank job. Doesn’t mean we dislike the raps.

              The irony here is presumably you are an Andrea fan, who we acquired via the draft.

              • 2damkule

                not just ‘the draft’….the first overall pick!  IRONY!

              • AB7.38pt.on.cb4

                Just go back to previous threads and you get the idea of Raptors sucks, BC sucks, ping pong balls, trade bargnani for 2nrd draft pick, we lose I m happy, and on.Take your time.

                We have already JV to develop next year, remember ? this team is set JC DD AB ED JJ AJ JV then BC will know the best to do. 

                There’s no a Bargnani in next draft

                • Nilanka15

                  “There’s no a Bargnani in next draft”

                  By that, do you mean a perpetual tease of a player who, for all intents and purposes, needs 6 years to arguably justify his number 1 selection?

                  If so, it’s probably in the Raptors’ best interests that there isn’t a Bargnani in the 2012 draft.

                • voy

                  1) there is no way anyone in their right mind would trade Bargs thinking its getting them closer to being contenders.

                  2) there is such a thing as a “good loss”.  As long as the Raps make an effort and are progressing but happen to lose the game, how can anyone be upset at that having witnessed the previous year?  I’d like to see wins also but you dont get to leapfrog the building process.

                  3) I hardly think the team is set.  Way too many holes in the squad.

                  4) I like Bargs alot but there are guys in this draft that have a chance to be better, I think, and fill team needs.  Like I said, I like bargs but lets not lose all perspective after 6 games.  He cant do it all by himself.  He needs help.  The best chance we have of getting him the biggest talent is via the draft.   

              • sleepz

                Don’t sell yourself short voy.

                Rasual is hitting shots at a 25% clip so far. If you can stick the corner 3 i’d give you a shot at the sf spot. 

      • sleepz

        U also beat me to it

        • 2damkule

          you should probably spend less time working, and more time on this site.  duh.

          • Del

            Opposite for you.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Mark-Nisbet/1406960551 Mark Nisbet

    I’m with you Arse.  We all Ripped the Raptors when they didn’t play with passion and exucution.  It’s only been 6 games….but IT’S BEEN 6 GAMES!!!!!  Lets give the whole team credit well deserved.  They are playing to or above their ability and that hasn’t happened around here for years.  Last year if the HEAT were playing on NBA ticket at the same time I was choosing to watch the HEATLES for obvious reasons.  Last night I stuck with the Raptors the whole way not because they were winning but because they played like they cared.  You can see the confidence.  You can see the passion.  Bryan Colangelo please lock up Dwayne Casey to a lifetime deal NOW!!!!!  We’ve had some coaches who know the game like Triano.  We’ve had coaches that could lead and demand accountability like Sam Mitchell.  COACH CASEY IS BOTH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  He makes them work and believe.  I’m floored.  I’m sure some tough days are ahead because we’re just not that talented at a few positions but man…I think we have all learned that a lot of teams take nights off and if you don’t you can win your share.  If these guys even sniff the playoffs I’m gettting season tickets next year!!!  If you build it I will come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • 2damkule

      ‘If these guys even sniff the playoffs I’m gettting season tickets next year!!!  If you build it I will come!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!’

      if that doesn’t send a chill down your spine, it should.  my single biggest fear is that the raps will be sitting 5 games under .500 a week before the trade deadline, 1 game out of 8th, and BC’s trigger/trade finger will be itching to make a move intended to push them into the playoffs, but that will more than likely only throw a wrench into the rebuild.  guys added at the deadline by playoff-bound teams are vets, sometimes on bad (but often expiring) deals, from non-playoff bound teams.  y’know…like the deals signed by butler, gray & magloire, or the one owned by barbosa.  if BC feels this a ‘playoff team,’ and he decides to tinker & add a vet, it’s going to cost a young player.  if that young player is bayless, well, go for it, but he’s not bringing back anything of value…meaning it’s a guy like ed or amir who’d be shopped.  does that help? 

      • voy

        exact-a-mundo.  this “lets cultivate a winning culture by making a (premature) push for the playoffs” is nonsense.  By extention, you would then have to favor a deal like ED for Jason Terry, or our first pick for Jamison.  Good lord, man.  I’m having nightmares already. 

        There are more ways to cultivate a winning culture than making a push for playoffs on the backs of 1 or 2 players or on a cast of veterans looking for one last shot at glory.

      • Nilanka15

        If Stefanski serves any purpose at all, let’s hope it’s to keep Colangelo from doing such a thing.

  • Valit

     I was trying to make some points after the first 6 games but somebody smarter than me beat me to that. Having said that, here they are not because I love redundancy but because I think it’s important not to forget them during this season.

    1. The notion of tanking the season should stop. It’s bad for everybody starting with the organization and ending up with the fans. It’s actually fun to read some enthusiastic posts here on this blog.
    2. A top 5 pick in any draft does not guarantee you an instant success. The evolution of a team is a very slow process acquired through drafts and FA signings.
    3. JV will not be an immediate saviour. For argument sake, he has a 50% chance of being a bust in NBA. I dont think this will happened but in his case ( more than anything)  patience will be needed from all of us
    4. I do not know if Casey is better at X’s and O’s than the previous coaches but he is better at getting them to understand his message and kudos should go to all of his assistants who are even fun to watch.
    5. It seems that the main players bought into the coach’s philosophy and they are responding accordingly. You can be the best coach in the world, if the players  dont want to play for you, you are screwed. The chemistry between the players seems genuine and this is great to see.
    6. Having said that, this roster has lots of flaws and the main reason they are 3-3 is that AB, DD and JC are playing fantastic. Sooner or later, fatigue , injuries or apocalypse will hit and there will be some very ugly games. Let’s keep this in mind when we will evaluate them. I still think these 3 can be a very decent core for years to come ( 2-3 ) and surrounding them with solid players will be beneficial. I keep hearing that with Bargnani and Calderon we will not win anything…true..but with another 2 players with their qualities in their respective positions, we can win a lot.

    • Nilanka15

      I’m actually quite confident that Valanciunas will be able to help this team immediately next year.  I’m not expecting 15/10/3 stat lines, but I think he’ll be a very solid pro, and won’t need a lot of time to reach his potential.  This is based on nothing more than a gut feeling from watching footage of his Eurobasket and Rytas games.

      • Brian B

        I’m hoping you prove correct, but cautious minds recognize that David Anderson was a star in the Euroleague, and a bust in the NBA. The nature of big man play in the two environments is SO different that it just is not comparable. At best, JV will have a steep transitional curve. That said, if he is not totally overwhelmed, the best way forward is for him to get minutes immediately. we just shouldn’t expect immediate results.

        • sleepz

          I agree with your assessment however I have a feeling that if he is coachable and follows Casey’s instructions he will provide the type of interior defence that will help provide more wins immediately. Casey is already getting some Def. results and doesn’t have many active defenders or even defensive minded players on this team. From what I have seen (and it’s been limited mind you) JV is active and his instincts lend to protecting the rim.
          We shouldn’t be too worried about JV’s offensive game, only be concerned with his rebounding and defence in the paint and I think these are areas he can contribute to right out the gate. 

          • Nilanka15

            +1

            His offense will come from Ed Davis-style baskets (i.e. broken plays, offensive rebounds, tip-ins, dunks, etc.). 

            On the defensive end, he’ll be our Tyson Chandler.

            • Ppellico

              I just read on another sight Chandler’s numbers show his team doing better defensively with him on the bench…very strange, indeed.

              I am another non believer in planning teams around future stars….especially from Europe.
              I do, however, love the European style of basketball more so than the NBA. It is absolutely more “team” orientated and demands more passing.
              The NBA seems to want individual scoring stars for fan numbers.

              And again, in our playoffs, the NBA allows for another type/style of play…allowing a much more bvang it up inside game than allowed in the regular season.

              Truly…today you need to plan for a winning regular season team, but a brutal, more powerful inside team come playoff time.
              It is like come playoff, you need only mean men inside and an outside 3 pointer to keep things honest.

              BTW…love reading your postings.

              • Nilanka15

                lol, thanks 😉

      • Pizzaman

        I have been watching Val play every chance I get and I believe very strongly he will not need much time to start contributing as a starter. He should start next year right away just like DD did. He is a monster against guys his age, and holds his own against the older NBA and Euro players. Lithuania is a solid basketball country and this kid has the energy and game to be a star. With a decent SF the Raptors could have the best front line in basketball within a couple of years. I’m convinced he has what it takes and that Casey can help him even further. Val shows huge hunger when he’s on the floor, and easily has as much passion and energy as Amir with much greater skills. ( no know on Amir but wanted to use him as an example of energy)

    • Brian B

      2 to 3 years is a short time horizon given the learning curve that JV (and any 2012 draft pick) are likely to face. So if that is the timeline you  give the three player “core” you define, I think you should be careful about your hopes. I do give you credit though for not double dipping AB & ED. To my mind, it ultimately only makes sense to have one of them on the roster- especially if Amir kept around as reserve big.

    • j bean

      I have to disagree that the only reason they have won three games is because AB, DD, and JC are playing fantastic. On the offensive end they have played their roles beautifully which makes it easy to point and say how fantastic they have been and defensively Andrea in particular has made huge strides but still the reason this team has played so much better is not because of any three guys. 
      The reason this team has had a bit of a transformation is because there is a level of communication throughout the organization that was sadly lacking in the past. There is an understanding from top to bottom that everyone is here for a purpose and everyone knows what that purpose is. Some roles may not be as glamorous as others but it takes a lot more than three guys to succeed in the NBA.

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        The main reason(s) that  the Raptors have won 3 games out of 6 is because 2 were against Cleveland and 1 was against a discombobulated NYK’s team playing without Amare or a real pg (Toney, Bibby) plus starting a rookie PF out of Kentucky.

        Still a W is a W but let’s see where the Raptors stand after 50 games and see if they can sustain this type of energy, effort over the course of a full NBA season (even a 66 game one lol) against a more varied opponent sample- so far so good.

        • j bean

          The point of my post was to say it is communication that has made the biggest difference in the way they are playing. Not that it is the reason for x amount of wins. It is evident in their losses as well as in their wins that there is a plan being communicated to everyone. If everyone gets on board and does their part the sum will be greater than the parts. The growth and development may not translate into a lot of wins this season but it will lay the ground work for future success. 

  • CalgaryRapsFan

    I don’t understand why “getting a top pick in the 2012 to address a position of weakness” and “purposefully tanking” are being tossed around here synonymously.

    This is what I want the team to do, to consider this season a success:

    1) play hard as a team, to establish a new culture with defense as a priority

    2) individual development of the young core (Bargnani, DeRozan, Davis, Amir and Valanciunas overseas)

    3) see real on-court chemistry develop among the core group of players

    4) win enough games (and be competitive enough in the losses) to prevent any negativity from setting in

    5) from a combination of the team’s record and luck with the lottery ping-pong balls, get a high enough pick to get one of the stud SF (in this deep draft, this could happen even with a pick in the 5-7 range, thanks to its strength being primarily PF/C players)

    6) use tradeable assets (ie: Barbosa & Bayless) to try and acquire either a late 1st round pick or early 2nd round pick, to add a young pass-first PG for Calderon to mentor (forgt talk of amnesty, I would love to not only see Calderon play out his contract, but be re-signed on the relatively cheap to stay on beyond next season as a backup/mentor PG!)

    IMO, the Raptors can add a top tier draft pick without having to “tank”.  Maybe I’m drinking too much Raptors kool-aid and am hoping they can ‘have their cake and eat it too’, but I think it’s a fairly objective observation of this team as it currently stands, to achieve just that.

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      Many of those RealGM raptors fans (especially most of the mods) support tanking like it’s a good thing.smh

      Tanking is for suckas, supporting losing is for wankers- that type of mentality can be very detrimental to a fan base support especially if the promised future blows up in the form of bad player (draft/trade) decisions made- who wants to support losing (tickets, merchandise, time) with their hard earned money other than a fanantic as most rational Raptors supporters will tend to stay away from a used car man sell job on the team especially in these hard economic times (rent, food, clothes, bills or Raptors tickets?).

      Play to win and let the chips fall where they may.

      PG/SG Tony Wroten Jr University Of Washington think of a college freshman DD with pg handles, excellent court vision & top level passing abilities then multiply it by 5.

      • Nilanka15

        “Tanking” is a decision management makes, not the players or coaches.

        The players/coaches will aim to win no matter what. 

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          Tell that to the folks at RealGM.lol

          I’m well aware that the players will play to win its just that losing is a basketball culture just like winning is.

          • Nilanka15

            That’s true.  It’s hard to shake that feeling of being scared to lose….which contributes to the losing culture.

            But either way, I think Colangelo is “tanking” this year by doing very little to improve the roster.

            • Ppellico

              this is/will always be my trouble in tennis matches.
              I really lose to players far below me because I stiffen up.
              Once I get control of my emotions, forget about the possibility of losing..and actually WANT the next ball…I win.

              Very weird this mind.

              But teams should have floor/lockerroom/bench leaders…those special players on the floor or in lockerrooms that seem to steady the team.

              I have seen players traded because they really were not stats guys, but once gone, their teams sunk.
              Why?
              Because they were the leaders behind the scene. They held the emotional hands of the players and calmed the seas.

              Many, many times I have seen this happen.

      • sleepz

        I noticed he was Pac-10 player of the week. Good for him.

        • WHAT THE

          So was Kabongo a few games back BC likes the TJ FORD/NASH style and Kabongo has that, and i think Kabongo should be around 13 to 14 in the draft JV would love him DD,Amir,Bargs holeee guy I must confess CESCO,POOKA,BCANDHISMAFIABUDDIESGOTOGO GUY I  once was a BARGS HATER but now i am starting to see the light…keep the fire burning under Bargs coach soon he be getting more calls from the reff trust me 2012-2013 RAPS ROY,EOY,COY

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          He’s only getting better as the season goes on…

      • KaioKev

        Tanking? No way thats terrible? What we “should” do is bring in Dwight Howard and Deron Williams ASAP and maybe, hopefully but probably not win a championship. Then in the offseason when they DON’T resign with the Raptors, we can blame management. 

        By the way, Leafs fans are known for supporting loosing at the highest price possible.

    • raptorsdd10

      Because history tells us that we have to overpay to get a FA and everytime we have done that we have failed…building through the draft is the way to take us to the next level with next years draft being close to the one to brought LBJ Wade Melo and CB4…this is the perfect year to be a bad team…and we neeeeed to offer JV for Cousins lol

      • CalgaryRapsFan

        I agree 100% that adding a stud from the 2012 draft is in the long-term best interest of the Raptors franchise.  I just think it can (and will) be accomplished without deliberate “tanking”.

        If the Raptors add Valanciunas, a 2012 lottery pick and even 1 good rotation (if not starter) free agent, this team will be in excellent shape heading into the 2012-2013 season and beyond.

        PS: no way in hell would I do the JV for Cousins trade.  I think JV has more potential at least on the defensive end, plus Cousins is an absolutely selfish cancer of a player that should be avoided at all costs.

        • mountio

          The perfect example is a trade of JC, for say a young (but much worse) PG and a salary throw in or for a 2nd rounder and an exipiring contract. 
          Is this tanking? I say no .. this could be a very savvy move. However, does it mean we are going to win less games this year? Absolutely. In fact, it could mean we will win a lot less games (ie 5 or more).
          Some might call this tanking, given that JC is playing so well, doing good things to make other players better, etc. But, I would argue its probably the right move for the franchise, given that it a) gives us a younger player and/or a draft pick and b) means we lose more games meaning we are likely to get a higher pick.
          To me, its totally rationale / understandable to root for this type of trade (knowing it will make us worse short term), and at the same time want the Raps to win every game they play, from a fan’s perspective.
          Its not deliberate tanking. Its not about the players putting out less effort or anything like that. Its just about making the best long term decision for the Raps

      • WHAT THE

        home grown baby! home grown!! soon we’ll have a group who never played for any other NBA team WOW

  • raptorsdd10

    The raps have great young players and finally a great coach…i think they should offer valanciounas for cousins..its time we get some balls at the C position…hopefully this team will improve without winning many games…then draft a sf..many future stars on next years draft…as good as jose is playing..use the amnesty clause on him and offer dwill the max…raps will be good enough where players will want to com ehere..future is promissing..hope Bargs keeps improving

    • sleepz

      Very interesting trade scenario (JV for DC).

      The issues with that are obviously you are hoping Demarcus ceiling is higher than JV (which is possible) and while Demarcus is a major talent and a bully on the blocks, he is immature and hasn’t shown that he will be maturing anytime soon, not just off the court but on it as well (bad shots, to’s).

      I don’t know if Raps have the type of veterans to stop him from slapping his teammates.lol

      If Casey could mould him and it could be assured that he wasn’t going to act up, as a GM I don’t see how you can’t at least consider it, but there is a lot of risk there currently and JV is starting to turn into a saviour of sorts around these parts so I don’t think Colangelo would bite.

      Part of me though wants to see BC make some of the type of bold moves you are suggesting (Dwill offer for instance) in the near future.

      • raptorsdd10

        Another thing the raps could do is hire Oakley as an assistant..hes the reason vc was as good as he was when the raps made it past the first round…I dare Cousins to do what hes doing now with Oak in town…Oak would also be on Bargnani…Cousins and Bargnani would be lethal..combine them with Demar and the sf they draft next year…Dwill would have manyyy reason to consider us…specially with players like james johnson, ed davis, amir and bayless on the bench…with dwill and cousins while giving up a guy who hasnt played a game for us would make us contenders for years to come

        • Raptorsss

          Oak is a coach in Charlotte and is good friends with Jordan, from when they were in Chicago together…I doubt he leaves that job for Toronto.

          • Brian B

            Oak gave up coaching – his back wouldn’t hold up to the travel (I think he had surgery). but if he goes back, I’d see him with Charlotte.

    • Nilanka15

      Cousins???  Oh gawd no!  We might as well trade Bargnani for Eddy Curry, and DeRozan for Darius Miles.

      • raptorsdd10

        wow…Ima just ignore that…Cousins can be a top 3 Center…he needs to leave Sactown

        • Nilanka15

          Forgive me sarcasm.  I acknowledge Cousins’ talent, but the dude’s a cancer, and a head case.  Why bring in a player who has the potential to blow up a locker room…and why trade our highest pick in years to get him?

        • 2damkule

          yeah, he sure can (be a top 3 center).  so can JV.  who knows?  if anything, cousins is as much (if not more of) an unknown than JV is.  as Nil mentions, he’s a headcase, and maybe he matures & that just kind of goes away, and he becomes the perennial all-star that made him a high lottery pick (despite his well-reported headcasey-ness coming out of school).  or maybe he just continues on his merry, nutty way, destroying teams while putting up monster numbers for the rest of his career.

          • raptorsdd10

            hes more of a sure thing than valanciounas

    • Ska

      We know what JV is able to do in Euroleague, and we know what DC is unable to do in Sac.
      Its a lateral move at  best.
      But it will never go happen due to DC attitude

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        DC >>> Val this year, in 2 years, 3 years, 4 years, 5 years….

        We don’t know what is going on in SacTown just alot of inaccurate media reports- DC asked for trade/didn’t ask for trade, Paul Westphal is a known asshole from his NBA playing days and has a history of run ins so it might not all be on DC time will tell.

        DC is a very talented young player who would thrive in the right coaching situation but he needs to mature which I believe he is very capable of doing both on & off the court.

        • Truthkiller

          There is no question about it that Cousins is a superior talent but in the NBA talent alone doesn’t win ball games you have to play as a team. This guy hasn’t been able to be a team-player since his high school days, so why would you bring him to the Raptors. 

          The issue with the Kings is that they have too many black holes as in the ball doesn’t move, 13.7 assists per game last in the NBA. 

          • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

            DCasey is why I would bring him to the TDot.

            DCasey dealt with Gary Payton & DMC is no Gary Payton attitude wise.

            • raptorsdd10

              I agree…I am not sure people here understand the kind of player Cousins can become

        • 2damkule

          uh, it’s not as though ‘issues’ haven’t followed DC around for quite a while.  he’d likely have been the 2nd overall pick if he had his head on straight…i saw a tweet that said that if DC had noah’s head & heart, he’d be superior to howard.  but he doesn’t.

          this isn’t new, and so yes, some of it is likely a personality clash with the coach (who will be fired shortly), but when guys are dicks, they’re dicks.  this isn’t a problem he can work through by lifting weights or working on his jumper, it’s his head.

    • p00ka

      Cousins….. no, no, no, please no! I don’t care about his body and skills. He was trouble for his high school team. He was trouble for his college team. He’s been trouble for his NBA team since day one and it continues. BC would never do that.

      • raptorsdd10

        lol not a single person agreeing with me on this… we are not talking about a guy who is injury prone or a guy with “potential”..he is good..really good…immature but that will change with age and with the right personnel around him…he can certainly make us a way better team and a perfect complement to bargnani…JV has lots of potential and will be a good player..just dont think hell be near the player DC is and will be…a guy like Oak would really make it work…
        think about it
        Derozan bargnani and cousins on the same team plus a high pick on a very loadeddraft and more than enough money to offer a max contract if JC is amnestied

        I know the chances of this happening are very slim but the guys mentioned above are alot more appealing to a free agent than with JV instead of DC…we have suffered enough as fans and we now have a chance to start something special even without getting Cousins…management is finally doing things right…we r going in the right direction…

        PS: Lets get Cousins lol

        • Truthkiller

          Very dumb idea.

        • Nilanka15

          How do you know he will overcome his immaturity?  And how do you know he won’t lose the respect of his teammates and/or coaches in the process?

          It’s a nice idea in theory, but there’s a BIG “if” about Cousins getting his act together.  We shouldn’t assume it’ll happen.

          • raptorsdd10

            I don’t know any of that but it is time to stop being scare dof taking  a risk… I don’t understand all the criticism… every1 is hyped up over JV (me included)…but trying to get cousins without giving out dd ab and nexts years pick is something we have to at least try

          • voy

            I dont know if I’d give up jv for dc but I may entertain the notion of swapping ed for demarcus.  We still may have a logjam at the pf/c (depending on who we pick in the draft) but if jv turns out to be the real deal and cousins begins acting like an adult we could flip dc in the next year or two for a team need.  Not saying I’d do it for sure but I would consider it.

            Was reading a report saying that boston was interested in DC.  Geez, imagine the moodiness with Cousins + Garnett?  Especially if their periods synched up the moodiness would be off the charts.

            • Nilanka15

              Cousins in Boston might be a good fit.  You know he’ll bow down to Garnett.  Meanwhile, the Raptors don’t necessarily have anyone in Garnett’s pedigree to demand that kind of respect from unruly young players.

              Now by your willingness to trade Davis over Valanciunas, does that mean you think Valanciunas will turn out to be a better player than Davis?

              • voy

                Perhaps its partly because I’ve seen ED play (good and bad) but have yet to see jv other than youtube clips so maybe I am idealizing jonas, a little.  Also partly cuz, I think, Amir can do most of what ED can do (perhaps not as good if they both max out on their potential).

                I am hoping jv turns out to be a better player than ED, especially if Davis doesn’t step it up a little.  I dont think either ED or Amir could have put up the numbers jv did in the under 19 world championships.  Who knows how that will translate though in the nba.

              • raptorsdd10

                so you don’t think JV will turn out better than Ed and yet you wouldn’t trade JV for Cousins…comon now…

                It takes 2 teams to agree to a trade for it to happen..I doubt Sactown wouldnt take Ed for Cousins..even if we added JJ and Bayless the ans would prob be no…I think because of all the hype they would take on JV

                • Nilanka15

                  I never gave even the slightest indication that I think Ed will be better than Valanciunas.  I was simply asking voy for his opinion because I was curious.  You came to that conclusion yourself.

                  For the record, I do think Cousins has an all-star centre skill set, but I think that skill set is negated because he’s such a douchebag. 

                  Part of changing the culture in Toronto is bringing in players who show good character, are coachable, respect their teammates, and play hard [almost] every night.  Cousins doesn’t bring any of that. 

                  But from what we’ve seen/heard about Valanciunas, he does bring all those qualities.  The kid’s also a natural leader.

                • Ea3110

                  “part of changing the culture in Toronto is bring in new players who show character”…man am I the only one who thinks we need a badass to come to town…weve had nothing but soft players since Oak and JYD…I agree that hes a headcase but that can be changed…I always hated the idea of Triano as the coach of the Raps so I emailed Doug Smith from the Toronto Star and asked why Triano is still coaching, his answer was he’s one of the nicest guys in the NBA lool…man its pathetic…I know the chances of us going after COusins are slim to none but I dont understand why every1 here doesnt want to have to deal with him..he is GREAT…look at th enumbers he put up yesterday…the duo of him and Bargs complement each other and would be one of the best front court duo at both ends of the floor with Casey as the coach… I really hope JV is the real deal though, cuz hes our future C and not Cousins..unfortunately lol

                • Nilanka15

                  Chalk it up to a difference of opinion.  Some think Cousin’s problems can be easily fixed in the right environment, while others (including myself) think there’s too much risk involved considering we’re not desperate to find a center with Valanciunas waiting in the wings.

  • p00ka

    Much of the discussion in this comment section is far more reasonable than I’ve seen in most. Even from ppl I’ve have had some serious disagreements with. It’s refreshing. Just my opinion, and I accept and understand that means little to most.
    The post near the beginning by “onemanweave” should be posted here every day.

    • p00ka_is_a_fish

      So you just said it means little to most (Raptors Republic readers here), then why are you reiterating his point if no one would ever give a damn. What has the Canadian high school system done for you.

      • p00ka

        Apparently it means something to weasels like you.

        • p00ka_is_a_fish

          No it doesn’t get ur FACTS correct, Bargs fanboy.

          • p00ka

            lmfao… you’re too stupid to realize you just took the bait and owned up to being a weasel

            • p00ka_is_a_fish

              truly your a fish

  • ad

    Bargnani and Derozan are playing the best basketball of their careers no doubt. Hope it continues. The team still sucks though. 2 of 3 wins have come against CLE and 1 win against amare-less NYK

  • Phat AlberG

    The offense is gear around him!  And only person who is allowed to take any shot he wants is Barg’s.  I remember you were the biggest hater of Bargnani, you were hating on the guy all the time but now you love him.  You don’t what hell about your talking about, and you have no idea about ball.  I’m glad Barg’s is making all you guys eat crow!  Because you stupid Toronto fans were getting upset for the guy for no reason since he’s been here.  

    The reason why Barg’s is playing good because he doesn’t have stupid coaches trying tell him what to do.  The guy is a baller flat out! Now he has a coach he trust his skill sets and get’s him the ball.   What 7 footer in the world has his shooting and touch and his handles.     
    And give Ed Davis the ball for what reason! That guy is brutal he has no post game or a jump shot and you want give him the ball more lmao.  Man honestly your hilarious!!!  Ed Davis is what is a role player and that’s it. IL Mago!!!  

    • raptorsdd10

      Agreeeee!!!!!

  • Nilanka15

    I don’t think Bargnani has the green light to take any shot he wants.  But that’s what been impressive about his offensive output so far this young season.  He hasn’t been forcing the issue and taking bad shots.

    But if we start to see some of those vintage pump fake, one step, 22 footers with 15 seconds left on the shot clock, I’m pretty sure Casey won’t be too thrilled.

  • Ppellico

    Has anybody here have ANY inside dope on Gray!?

    It seems very stupid that the Raptors keep such player information silent.
    Nothing anywhere.
    Nadda!
    Zilch!
    Come on…why isn’t there anything more than the same old information…practicing with team but not playing 5 days ago information?????

  • tonious35

    I am hoping Bayless stays injured some more until he realizes that Anthony Carter is contributing by defending and giving the ball to the people who need it most, without getting the assist on the stat sheet