Raptors 73, Celtics 96 – Box

Nothing to see here, nothing to see here at all. Only thing we can do is hope that nights like these are limited in number this season, and hope is the right word because logic and probability both indicate that more are to follow, even as soon as this week.

The Raptors haven’t won anything in Boston since January of 2008, and heading into this one a win wasn’t on anyone’s mind, all that we hoped was that the team could give a good account of themselves and come out of the building with their heads held high. Did not happen, and this defeat serves as the exclamation mark of the Raptors’ prolonged futility against the Celtics. The larger concern here isn’t the humiliating defeat, it’s the hopelessness that seems embedded in the roster, to which the prescribed cure is deemed to be patience. And so it is with patience that we watch these games, in anticipation that the outcome of this gradual process will yield something worthy of pride.

A minute into this game it was crystal clear that the Celtics were not going to let this one drop, and saw the Raptors as the perfect antidote for their five game losing streak. Their hunger for a win was personified by Rajon Rondo who made no secret that he saw Jose Calderon as nothing more than a pylon, and the Raptors help defense as mere spectators. The Raptors’ strategy was to lay off Garnett, but that backfired as he hit all of his long twos. The Celtics’ march to the paint wasn’t just happening through Rondo, Pierce was slicing his way inside with ease as well, and the Raptors transition defense wasn’t up to par against the Celtics’ sheer speed after turnovers.

Amir Johnson picked up two early fouls (one of them total BS, the other one a wily trick by Garnett), and was sent to the bench. Jamaal Magloire was brought on and he airballed a 10-footer, Aaron Gray was brought on and he was understandably uncoordinated and couldn’t execute a single box-out. With no Bargnani around and the absence of anyone who the Celtics might even consider a threat, DeRozan tried to get the offense going by getting himself going, first by hitting a three, and then a couple strong moves against Ray Allen, who was quiet in the first half. Despite his moderate success in the first half, DeRozan’s game impact was zero – 4-16 and 2 rebounds. I don’t get the jumpers, especially the long twos, I hope he realizes that increasing your range from 10 feet (which he’s good at) to 20 feet (which he’s not good at), rarely happens in two discrete steps. What DeRozan needs to go back to is what he did a couple times against Ray Allen – catch it in a face-up situation, make your move quickly, create separation, and take a short jumper. Pulling up for a 20-footer, or even stepping into one is a low percentage shot for him, and is especially harmful when the team is struggling.

Overall, the Raptors settled for way too many perimeter looks in the first quarter (shot chart), and dug themselves a nice little 15 point hole, the stretch included 11 straight missed shots (mostly jumpers) and resulted in them shooting 30% in the quarter to the Celtics’ 60%. Of all people, Rasual Butler sparked the offense by hitting a couple shots that nobody expected him to make. The second unit, led by Gary Forbes, pulled the Raptors closer in the second, the highlight was Forbes taking Avery Bradley off the dribble for a left-handed And1 finish off the glass. To sum it up, the Raptors had a chance with Rondo on the bench, and zero while he was on the floor.

On the strength of their bench, the Raptors won the second quarter 24-15 and closed the gap at halftime to 44-38. Unfortunately, that scoreline gave me momentary hope for the second half. Said hope was gone not long after the interval, which started with the Celtics going on a 9-3 run to double the lead and deflate the visitors. Things we saw in action in the third quarter:

– DeRozan’s suspect ball handling
– James Johnson trying to do too much
– Gary Forbes once again be the Raptors’ best player in the quarter
– No answer to Pierce
– The start of garbage time

You can probably complete the picture. It was a blowout the rest of the way.

Couple of gems from Devlin, during the second quarter when the Raptors couldn’t score: “Somebody’s got to take the pressure off of Barbosa”. It’s a massive warning sign when Barbosa is considered the go-to guy on the team, and it speaks very poorly to DeRozan, who in his third year should be taking on the pressure, instead of deferring to a perennial bench man.

Here’s another one: “The Raptors had to beat the Celtics off the bounce and use some of that athleticism”. Beat the Celtics off the bounce? No active Raptor could beat any Celtic off the bounce, hell, forget the bounce, no Raptor could beat a Celtic if they had the ball tucked under their arm. Sometimes I don’t know what game he’s watching.

Final comment on Kleiza’s flagrant on Rondo which almost broke his wrist. It was a bit thuggish and I was concerned for Rondo, at the same time I was glad to see it because it’s a sign that some level of f**k is being given, even if it isn’t translating to wins. If you can’t beat them, at least make your presence felt without killing anyone.

As I already said, nothing to see here, so I ask you to spare me from describing this game in any more detail. Next up is Portland at home before we go on a season-defining road trip.

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  • Raptors=Adams Family

    Honestly, thes tema need some basketballPLAYERS. Only AB and Josè is not enough. DD is the most overrated player i’v ever seen.
    Whatching the “game” of the Raps without AB is simply disgusting. No, i’m not a Bargsisthebesplayerintheworldandonlybargs, but he CAN play BB.

  • 2damkule

    one word kept popping into my head while watching DD struggle: snakebitten.  just seems he’s in one of those funks where everything goes wrong.  he had a couple nice moves early, as arse says, but didn’t seem to realize that those were there if he wanted to exploit them.  then things started going downhill…nice baseline drive negated by the WORST CALL EVER (BS foul on amir…he ‘pushed off’ garnett, which translated means ‘was in the vicinity of kevin garnett’.  whatever).

    after that, it just seemed like everything he did backfired, much like it’s been for the last couple weeks.  at least a couple times/game, he drives & gets stripped (no biggie, happens throughout the L)…but the ball always seems to go off him for a turnover, and he’s certainly not getting the benefit of the doubt on calls (not that he should, but again, it’s not as though he’s doing anything different than a lot of players who do get those calls).  i dunno…i don’t expect him to get the calls the stars do, but he’s not even getting the calls he was last year.

    • Nilanka15

      The offensive struggles are understandable, but the lack of effort in every other aspect of the game is inexcusable.  DeRozan is becoming the new Bargnani (i.e. if he’s not scoring, he’s a total liability on the floor). 

      DeRozan’s been outrebounded by Calderon 8 times this season. 

      New rule: from this point forward, nobody is allowed to refer to DeRozan as “athletic”, because quite simply, he’s not athletic.

      • voy

        I think dd is athletic.  the problem is, ideally, you want to combine that athleticism with a high level of basketball skill, in my opinion.  DD’s basketball skill is, maybe, average-ish for his position? 

        I guess its not his fault that all the highschool kids thought he was the 2nd coming of kobe.  I dont think he is as bad as he is playing, I just dont want to hear that he is a dunker.  I cant remember one guy that dd has put on a poster.  This being said, you dont have to be a dunker to contribute to a team.

        • Nilanka15

          How do we define “athletic” though? 

          He may be able to jump high if there’s nobody else on the court, but that’s it.  He’s a slow sprinter, doesn’t have a quick first step, isn’t physically strong, can’t adjust to contact while in flight…and the list goes on and on.

          DeRozan’s as “athletic” as a Toyota Corolla is “sporty”

          • voy

            I dunno.  I think he’s more athletic than non-athletic.  I dont think its a crazy-super athleticism that will compensate for his lack of basketball skills.  I mean, everyone is pretty athletic at the 2 so maybe his athleticism is more or less a breakeven. 

            • Nilanka15

              Yeah, I’ll admit that he’s as athletic as the average NBA player, but it’s definitely not one of his strengths (as it was suggested in the past).

              • raptorboy

                I don’t think DeRozan’s athleticism is his problem. He just isn’t playing the game to his strengths. He must’ve hit the floor 5 times last night when he was going to the hole. He needs to initiate contact and go to the line. Thinking about going strong to the hoop and doing it are 2 different things.

      • Asher

        DeRozan is not the new Bargnani. The Bargnani of last year was still much more effective overall than DeRozan is this year. 

      • In what kind of dreams DD is becoming the new AB? Probably he is going to become a role player.

        • Nilanka15

          Did either of you guys bother to read the parentheses?

          Excluding the 7-10 games Bargnani has played this year, he was a total liability if he wasn’t scoring efficiently.  Doesn’t that description also fit DeRozan based on his play this year???

  • DonCarlos

    Kleiza’s foul was a tad hard and probably deserving of the flagrant, but Rondo has to learn to not put his hands down like that to break a fall. Isn’t that how he got injured in the playoffs last year?

    • raptorboy

      Good point. He’s going to break his arm trying to catch himself like that. A couple judo classes might save Rondo from a major injury!

  • JHP

    I wish they could just tick the L box and move on.  Every year this team has less and less talent.  Maybe they have hit rock bottom and maybe not.  Time will tell. The next game of interest will be Feb 3rd.  They may have 5 wins by then and it will be interesting to see if they drop an egg against the Wizards. I’m sorry but every year by this time I’m rooting for the 5 teams with worse records then the Raptors. A sort of perverse reasoning.  If I can’t root for them to win, I can at least root for them to have the worse record 🙂

    • Nilanka15

      Wiz beat OKC last night.  Bonus!

  • voy

    you know when, sometimes, you surround an average looking girl with four chicks that look like Rosie O’Donnell, that average looking girl may start to look like a supermodel?  Well, maybe in basketball its the exact opposite.  Demar is starting to look like Rosie O’Donnell.  Maybe he’ll start to look like a chick we’d actually bang if we’d surround him with other chicks we’d actually bang. 

    I dont know who the female equivalent of Demar would be.  Maybe like a Sarah Michelle Gellar?  Not too bad at first glance but then upon closer inspection you wish you only became friends.  Anyway, point being I dont think DD is a Rosie O’Donnell.  His game will become more attractive when he starts playing with better looking chicks. 

    • Lorenzo

      This “analogy” was very painful to read lol

  • Milesboyer

    It’s very, very hard to watch these Raptors but unfortunately there aren’t many alternatives for the makeup of the team right now. They have to lose a lot this season and maybe even next to have a proper rebuild.  Too bad their previous top ten picks (Ed & Demar) aren’t providing more hope.  This has got to be just killing Colangelo but I’m sure he’ll go all in next year and we’ll see a much different team – I just hope it doesn’t become another era of .500 ball because he lacks the patience to go all the way with this “build”.

    • voy

      I think you are correct.  Presently, there are no other alternatives.  I’d rather have the team go through this than start to acquire serviceable 30-32 year old guys to make the playoffs and lose in the first round. 

      This year was gonna be ugly enough but when the best player on the team and your backup pg go down and DD and ED aren’t playing well, there is not much you can do.  To quote Joe from Resevoir Dogs “you shit your pants, dive in and swim”.

    • sleepz

      The thing that troubles me abotu what might be killing Colangelo, is fine he has committed to rebuilding the team and we expected to be ad this year but the lack of talent on this team is almost inexcusable imo.

      Yes I know he will blame Bosh (ridiculous considering he inherited him and had no loyalty to him and Bosh played out his contract) for our current state of affairs but he’s had other opportunities to try and add promising younger players that might play a role going forward and has failed.

      I can commend him for getting Amir. He’s young tough and the type of player you want on your team so I can give credit where it’s due.

      But what about Bayless? I know some may like him but he’s not a 1. They play him at a position he simply cannot play with any consistency and has failed trying to on better teams. J.Johnson has the potential to be a decent defensive player and hustle guy but is that what Colangelo envisioned when giving up a 1st round pick for him? Sure it was not a high 1st rounder but as a GM aren’t you supposed to find gems or players that can contribute to your team via the draft? The Spurs do it every year regardless of where they pick. If I’m a  GM worth my salt I would have tried to find the best player I could with that 29th or 30th pick instead of getting Johnson who “is better than anyone that could have been picked at that spot” because unless Johnson learns to at least keep defences honest with his offence they are playing 4 on 5 whe he’s on the court.

      Alabi was drafted in the 2nd round so those picks usually don’t pan out as often as they turn out to be steals but then you give him a 2 year GUARANTEED deal for a player that can’t get off the bench as the speed of the game is too quick?lol

      I’m not going to harp on DeRozan or Davis because I don’t think you can judge them at this point however even as someone willing to give them some time, are you as confident now regarding their development as perhaps you were last year? I’m not going to judge them but something is not the same.

      I won’t even get into the J. Wright and A Ajincia experiments but it furthers my concern that Colangelo has done very little with this Raptor team under his tenure and I’m not confident in him running the team trying to “rebuild”. He never built anything to be rebuilt in Toronto yet.  

      • CaseyDaMan

        LOL, as I noticed yesterday, and you admitted to, you love to pretend what you “know” while talking out of the wrong hole. “I know he will blame Bosh…….for our current
        state of affairs”. Aside from not having a clue what he will say, he never blamed Bosh for such. He was pressed by the media to comment on his dealings with Bosh, and that’s all he commented on, without ever saying anything like the problems now are on Bosh. 

        “he’s had other opportunities to try and add promising younger players that might play a role going forward and has failed”. What opportunities do you know he hasn’t tried ans should have?

        Alabi: CBA says you must sign a draft pick to two years, so that criticism is simply uninformed.

        A Ajincia: they got him, and a 2nd round pick, and the $ to cover his salary, for the rights to a guy who will never smell an NBA floor. You call that a bad deal?

        Wright: BC took a flyer on a guy that had potential to fill a hole (SF) in exchange for a guy who was sitting behind DeMar (seen as the future) and Weems. In retrospect, it didn’t work out, but certainly didn’t seem like a bad deal at the time. Not all small trades work out. Amir for Delfino outweighs 3 of those.

        • sleepz

          I speak out of my mouth and thats it. Not sure what you were referring to that I said yesterday but clearly you are paying close attention to my posts which is great! Good job.

          I know what I ‘know’ as every one else has their own opinions on the Raps. If you don’t like it you can bypass my comments, but I am truly honored that instead you choose to analyze me…….the way you see it or how you ‘know’ it to be.

          BC hasn’t said specifically that Bosh is to blame but has made plenty of references to the rebuilding now that Bosh has left. You can make insinuations without outright saying something and after Bosh left many of his interviews particularly on the Fan where the implication was he’s ‘retooling’ because they have talent, and this year is now a ‘rebuild’ is built around Bosh leaving. He offered him a max deal, and then turned around and said he thought it was prudent that they weren’t ‘handcuffed’ to a non-franchise player. Dissing a player you just tried to max up? lol Interesting.

          If he’s decided to make moves for the players he has and once again in other interviews claim he has things on the table or has other deals he can consider then there are options. No one will ever know what specifically was available, you neither, so maybe lets just focus on what he has done which is fact. You’re taking a comment I made highlighting it and trying to ignore facts. Why are you so perturbed with my opinions?lol Interesting.

          You can sign a 2nd rounder to a 2 year deal but does it have to be guaranteed and more money beyond what you have to give the player? Read your CBA again.

          I call the acquisition of Ajincia a bad deal because he’s garbage and is out of the league.

          He took a flyer on Wright and once again, straight miss.

          I have a feeling that in a few years we will be saying the same things about Bayless and Johnson but only time will tell no? I like my odds though.

          btw, once again if you take issue with my comments no need to respond. You don’t have to jock me. Then again I have a feeling who’s posting this and changing your moniker is unnecessary with me. Post as you are, it’s all good bro!  

          • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

            Everyone who visits this forum daily knows who this sad faced clown is no matter his make up as his posts all start to sound the same after a quick minute…..smh lol

            That’s why I don’t respond to him no matter his moniker (something that he like to accuse others of doing- mirror check lmfao) as he wants your attention that’s why he jocks your posts especially if you criticize the heartless lethargic half ass sidebuster known as ABaragnani aka No Star aka Lazy Ass Mo’fo’er aka The Italian Cancer..

            • CaseyDaMan

              What the hell are you talking about kid? The little voices in your head woke up? Geez, some peoples children.

              • what the

                now now p00ka play nice

            • what the

              it’s p00ka !!

          • CaseyDaMan


      • CJT

        It is easy for the Spurs to find these gems because their prospects are not under any pressure to develop at a specific pace.  They also have some pretty amazing players that make average picks look better.  They create open shots for them, mentor them etc.  Here every pick is supposed to be the answer to all of our problems and asked to take on huge responsibility while in the development stages.

        • voy

          exact-a-mundo. would dujuan blair be as highly regarded or as productive and efficient if he played in New Orleans?

      • Theswirsky

        I’m not sure anyone has or could blame Bosh.  I guess one could say he didn’t pull an Anthony and admit he was leaving so he should be traded…. but honestly it was pretty obvious he was leaving (who ‘tests the market’ when the best possible market price he could get was already on the table?). It was really all on BC for not doing something about it until it was too late.  Even more, the Raps should have already been in rebuild mode the minute JO wasn’t working out, if not at that point then when Bosh turned down the extension.  Bosh should have been on the market as the first step in blowing it up.

        But I agree the lack of talent is all on BC.  His ‘retooling’ instead of rebuilding up until now has wasted years.  His peice meal approach… putting bandaids on leaks in a damn…. caught up to him. 

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      Ed was selected 13th overall not top 10.

      If AB gets 5 years as the #1 overall draft pick then so do DD & Ed- you can’t judge their game until after 5 years.

      You’re drinking the ‘build’ kool aid- smarten up buddy as it’s just a pr spin just like the ‘rebuild’ (announced by BC in January 2011) was another way for BC to rationalize all the losing (how BC’s transactions fucked up the Raptors) to the Raptors fan base outside of still blaming CB (Boston Globe).

      • Milesboyer

        I was being sarcastic with the term “build”, hence the quotations, maybe you should smarten up and not assume you know what I meant.

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          Maybe you should make you posts more comprehensible as sarcasm doesn’t translate well over the internet- smarten up yourself, buddy, and get your panties unbunched.

          Ed wasn’t a top 10 draft pick- recognize your lies….

          • Milesboyer

            It’s all a lie! One giant conspiracy by BC, Stefanski and Casey to make us follow a bad team because they don’t actually want to win.  Too bad you weren’t GM, you’d fix it in no time or you never would of gotten us into this mess in the first place right?

            • Kells

              Don’t waste your name with the idiot, he’s just clutching for straws, and spews the same toxic bullshit every day.

              “BC, culture change, bullchit, goldenchild, coddled, Bargnani”….snore. We get it, but he doesn’t. 

            • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

              Let you tell it.lol

      • CJT

        Are you trying to suggest that you haven’t been on here for the past five years bashing Bargnani?  Judging every thing he does?  How can you not understand the he is the BEST player on the team. 
        And for the record, the GM’s before BC messed up the Raptors, BC inherited a broken team. 

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          No, I have only been on this site for the past 2 years- another make believe moment.lmfao

          If AB is the best player on this team that may be why the team sucks because the ‘Italian Cancer’ is the best that BC can offer the TDot fan base.

    • CJT

      I agree with your points, but last night’s game was the only one so far this year where I got that sinking deflated feeling while watching it.  All the other games so far I have been impressed with the defense or some aspect of the effort being made.  Last night was the first unwatchable game.  I am perfectly fine with losing games to rebuild properly, especially if we can notice development and improvment.

      • Theswirsky


        Philly, Washington and NJ didn’t give the deflated feeling?  Two of those were blowouts by equally terrible teams rather than a possible contender in Boston.

        • CaseyDaMan

          I understand where CJT is coming from. He qualified not having deflated feeling from other games by saying “I have been impressed with the defense or some aspect of the effort being made”. The examples you pointed out as ones you’re surprised he didn’t feel the same:

          Philly: Unlike Boston game, at least there was reason to appreciate Bargnani’s continued resurgence on the year with 21 pts, 11 RBs, and Amir with 12 pt and 14 RB game instead of a 4 pt 6 RB game vs Boston. Key word being “some” aspect…

          NJ: I don’t know if 12 pt game qualifies as a blowout, but positives in that game, not present last night:
          – Bargnani, though having an “off game” compared to previous ones, still had 17 pts on 6/12, 4 RBs, 3 ASTs, 2 BLKs
          – Calderon continuing great play with 19 pts on 7/13, 8 ASTs,
          2 RBs, 1 STL
          – ED finally showed some semblance of belonging on an NBA court with 11 pts on 4/7, 8 RBs, 1 AST, 1 STL, 1 BLK in 25 minutes
           – NJ needed off the charts 3 pt shooting (48% on 15/31) while Raps still kept the overall FG% to 38%. Big goal this year is to correct problems with too easy in the paint scoring. The perimeter defense certainly needs improving, but any team can get crazy hot from 3 on a given night and win the game by 4 of them.

          WAS- yup, a real stinker against a bad team, but one capable of rising to an occasion as evidenced by scorong 105 in beating OKC last night. Raps positives not present last night:
          – Bargnani continues good play with 22 pts on 9/16 in reduced 29 minutes
          – Barbosa seems to be coming out of his terrible funk the previous 6 games with 12 pts on 5/11 in 20 minutes vs 6 pts on 3/7 after 6 previous good games last night
          – Davis- after 2 absolute stinkers following the NJ game, delivers 5 pts on 1/2, 9 RBs, 3 BLKs in 20 minutes

          NOTE: I also add that the sting may have been eased by both NJ and WAS losses coming after Wins, but last nights loss came after 5 straight previous losses.

          What’s the agenda here dude? I understand glass half full, glass half empty creates disagreement/discussion, but totally empty glass may as well look for another team for a pastime. Geez.

          • Theswirsky

            agenda?  No agenda.  This team has been terrible alot of times.  Not just last night.  Maybe the realization is just catching up to some.

            In fact I’d take a loss like last night (to Boston or Chicago or Indy) over a loss to the worst teams in the league any day of the week.

            • CaseyDaMan

              No agenda? What else would explain you’re questioning of his post with an unrelated opinion, even using examples that upon review, support what he said he felt? They may support you different and unrelated opinion, but they certainly don’t counter his.

              And now responding with further expression of your opinion that again doesn’t relate to the topic. Hey, we’re all entitled to our opinions, but countering someone’s opinion citing unrelated one’s seems a little odd, thus my question about agenda. 

              • Theswirsky

                please explain to me my ‘agenda’ would love to hear it.

                • CaseyDaMan

                  You like twisting the topic of course when you’re called out, don’t you? You may get away that with the kids, and feel like a big boy, but not with this guy.

                  It’s not up to me to try and explain your agenda. I asked what else it could be, in a general sense (not assuming what’s on your mind), to explain what you did?

                  To remind you of what I pointed out you did: you questioned a post using examples that in fact supported the opinion you were questioning (as I pointed out reason for, which have  not been denied), but were using those examples to support an unrelated opinion of yours. Does that really seem like a rational post to you?  I asked if it’s not some agenda, what is it?

                  Don’t try and be a smartazz unless you’re at least being smart.

                • Theswirsky


                  I don’t even know what to say. 

                  How you got here from my first post I have no idea.  Hope you enjoy the ride though as I’m getting off now.

                • CaseyDaMan

                  Read and learn the big boy way.

                • what the


              • what the


      • raptorboy

        There were a couple of other duds as well but overall you’re right. As long as the Raptors are playing hard and improving on D (that was the theme of this year) I’m not really concerned with w’s. The wins will come eventually. Some more talent with JV and this years pick and we`re starting to go somewhere. That was a bad one last night though!! Hate those games!

        • CJT

          Exactly.  I am not suggesting that I am happy that they lost games I feel that they should have won, but rather, there were elements in each of those games, like AB playing really hard D etc. that made them watchable for me.  Last night I didn’t see much of anything to pull from the game.

  • 511

    I was down in the tv room watching the first quarter and the missus came down for a moment: “How’re they doing?” – “Well, they’re playing against an old Celtics team who’re motivated to break a five-loss streak and the refs are doing whatever they can to make sure that we don’t get any kind of toehold on the game. You know, just in case” – “So, same old” – “Ya”.  

    Sometimes, I force myself to wonder if it’s just me, if I’m seeing fouls called/not-called (against us/not against them), from a slightly paranoid perspective because of the way it’s so often been in the past. I wonder, but I don’t-for-a-moment believe so; my eyes see what they see. The personal foul-totals almost balanced out by the end — 25 us / 20 them — but during the first quarter when the tone of the game was really being set, the 9 fouls called against the Raps compared to the 2 fouls called against the Celtics, to my mind, are telling. It’s too easy to suck the life – not to mention, momentum – out of a team by whistling them to death early on, giving the other team extra free throws and possessions. It’s also too easy to say afterwards that ‘the matchup wasn’t even close, so never mind’, but the truth is (yes, as I see it) that once a team has had just enough of its edge ground down by the officials calling the game, what we see out there is not what we might’ve otherwise seen. I love this game like no other and I love this league but every now and then I feel like it’s being run by gangsters with briefcases. 

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      NBA refereeing is very similar to WWF wrestling refereeing as they have their bad guys (Amir is apparently one) that they ring up as they see fit and their superstars that they protect with calls and/or non calls.

      In fact I was watching an OKC Thunder game and wrestling broadcast legend Jim Ross sat in with the broadcast crew and commented that NBA ref’s are like wrestling refs in that- ‘they miss alot of things seemingly inadvertently but perhaps I’m wrong’. Then he goes on to say ‘I’m only kidding they do a good job’ halfheartedly.

      Life isn’t fair so you can’t expect a basketball game to be called fairly especially with crooked Mafia refs just hope that they call it the same both ways but pro basketball is a manged affair especially if start to look closely at the betting lines of each game.

      In the Stern scripted 2011-12 NBA regular season the Raptors are supposed to lose alot of games with an occasional upset here and there.

      • Gman

        But it’s damn hard to watch, isn’t it?

      • CJT

        That’s awesome, the first time you make an observation that is remotely valid and you stole it from Jim Ross.  Keep up the good work.

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          Let you tell it.lol

          I have long posted in this forum that NBA refs are alot like WWF refs in that they call whatever they see fit to call and/or not call……get up on game before you pat yourself on the back..smh

  • Should we start Gary Forbes over Demar?

    • 511

      I think the question is – or will be in about a week – should we be starting Forbes over Bayless? 

      • 511

        or at least, playing Forbes where we’d be playing Bayless(?). 

  • FAQ

    14 + 24 + 17 + 18 = 73

    Starters =  37

    Explanation: Bargs and Bayless inactive?  Most of team is crap?

  • Nilanka15

    You know it’s a sad state of affairs when Gary Forbes (who nobody ever heard of 1 month ago) is the team’s best playmaker.  For all of Calderon’s strengths, the guy can’t do shit without a screen, DeRozan dribbles as well as my 4-year old neice with a nerf ball, and Barbosa is still looking for his 1st career asist.  Who would’ve thought Weems would be so dearly missed???  Man, it’s gonna be a long season…

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      I knew about GForbes at UMass.

      Calderon is a preimeter pg that rarely drives & kicks or create shots for others most of his assists come on priemeter passes for jumpers & in pick ‘n roll scenarios.

      Who would you like Bosa to pass the ball to?

      DD had no handles at USC……just a solid Pac 10 (now Pac 12) tournament run where he won tourney MVP after a so so regular Pac 10 season.

      Weems- it’s all about chemistry, someone DD could confide in on the roster that knew exactly what he was going through and talking about, Weems should be brought back next season to back up DD especially if Bosa is traded away or doesn’t re-sign.

      Same with Joey ‘Ben Grimm’ Dorsey as he should be brought back next season as the Raptors 3rd roster center fuck an Alabi.

      It’s gonna be a long next couple of seasons as long as BC is around the TDot along with his Golden Child AB.

      • raptorboy

        Long this year but should be fun to watch JV get at it next year. Longest year was Bosh`s last when his “couldn`t case less attitude“ became a cancer to the team. He even has Jose`s spirit`s down..imagine that!!

        Forbes looks like a nice pick up by BC. Could be a player yet!! Golden child might be an all-start this year. That can`t be too bad is it…

      • Dan

        1. You know everything about everything, of course. So very impressed as usual.

        2. Weems’ effort was abysmal last year. He’s a fine player when he’s trying, but I find it odd you’d like his bad habits rubbing off on DD. If Weems had work ethic he’d be playing with a nice NBA contract this season.

        3. You think AB is the problem now? The “Golden Child?” Sounds like sour grapes from the past with no regard for the present.

        4. You think Dwane Casey should be fired? Wow. Explain..

  • N_aguda

    I laughed so hard at work reading this title half the office looked my way. And it was worth it.

  • DC

    This teams lack of overall talent is sickening. This team is filled with scrubs (kleiza, a gray, forbes) has been’s/ never was (maglore/butler/anthony carter) role players on good teams (amir j, bargnani, j calderon, barbosa) and so called potential that most likely equals a role player at best (derozen, ed davis, jj, bayless). This team is a mess i don’t even think michael jordan could get this  bunch to a .500 record. The raptors are never gonna be good and definantly never championship calibur in toronto. Sure maybe in 4-5 seasons they might get lucky enough to get to the hawks/ pacers level where they can challenge for seeds 6-8 but nothing more.  I know I’m going to get killed for that but cmon even if we got a Lebron/Durant hell even a CB/Granger player in the draft their not going to want to stay after 4-5 years  of mediocrity at best anyways. Thats why colangelo always drafts foreigners because those are the only ones that actually want to stay/come play for toronto. JV better be the next D12 or Dirk because if he Tyson Chandler this teams going no where fast. O and for people saying that AB was the best in his draft ill tell you I would rather have rudy gay or lamarcus aldridge. I think every team looks at a loss to the raptors as worse then losing to any other team in the league, bc its toronto. For god’s sake players have to get a passport to come play here lol. Honestly the best thing for this team would be for them to move to a city in the US. Not saying anything is wrong with the city of toronto but no players going to want to move there when theyre plenty of highly populated cities in the US. What was the last good high profile FA to not only come to the raptors but was actually any good? Don’t say Turk? Jermaine Oneal was over the hill at best even he knew he was. So who before that? What antonio davis, he was a good player but not a world beater by any means. Hakeem the dream? lol. Mogusy… another laugher. For this post I know imma get killed for it but im just going to state the obvious. 

    • Nilanka15

      Cut & paste from the Roll Call:

      I understand the frustration, but c’mon dude.  Every single NBA player
      needs a passport, whether or not you play for the Raptors.  Every team visits the ACC at least once a season.

      And 4-5 years is a damn
      long time.  There’s absolutely no way you (or anyone else) can predict
      how competitive this team will be in 2017.

      PS – If Jordan (in his prime) was on this team, we easily win 45+ games.  That’s how good he was at making everyone around him better.

      • DC

        Cut and past from roll call:

        True Nilanka you can’t predict how competitive this team in 4-5 years. But you can look at the past 4-5 years hell go back 10 -15  years. How many playoff series has this team won since the one where VC was one shot away from the finals? Exactly? How many big name FA’s were said to want to come play for the raptors? Im talking about good FA’s not Turk. Yea people thought Turk would be good but he wasn’t and still isn’t any good so he was bad after they made the trip to the finals. Its like when the grizz were in vancouver. But then moved to memphis. Who was a better team Vancouver back then or Memphis now.
        But jordan did have Scottie don’t sleep on his skills he is a Top 50 player. Don’t sleep on rodman either he could be in the hall on rebounds and defense alone. NOt to day MJ didn’t carry that squadand wasnt the best player ever but this team? Idk bout that nilanka lol

        • voy

          so who were the FAs that wanted to go to memphis to make the memphis grizz decent????? 

          Memphis got better through the draft.  If the grizz still were in vancouver and drafted the same guys the team would be exactly the same.  The year after they moved from vancouver they drafted Gasol and Battier; Mike Miller they drafted the year before.  FA’s had nothing to do with the grizz becoming a better team after they left vancouver. 

        • Nilanka15

          That’s why I didn’t say we’d win 72 games with MJ.  He needed Pippen and Rodman.  But there’s enough skill in Bargnani and Calderon that Jordan could win 45+ games on this team.  This is just opinion, so take that with a grain of salt.

          As for the Vancouver Grizzlies, two words: Stu Jackson.  The biggest ass clown to ever run a pro franchise (yes, he was worse than Rob Babcock).  That’s the reason why the team succeeded in Memphis, because they got rid of Jackson, not because they left Canada.

          Yes, history is usually a good indicator of future performance, but this theory loses a lot a weight when we compare the drastically different circumstances between the past and present.  The 2000-01 Raptor team that Carter led to the 2nd round, has nothing in common with the current team (different management, different coaches, different players….even different uniforms).  There’s no way to establish any semblance of correlation between the 2 teams.

          As for the lack of free agents, when have we had enough cap space to sign one in the past?  During the Carter days, we had inflated contracts on Carter, Davis, Boogie, JYD, etc, that we simply weren’t allowed (by NBA rules) to sign massive free agent contracts.  The only year we had decent cap space, we landed the player many regarded as the best free agent available (i.e. Turkoglu).  Yes, he sucked balls, but that’s beside the point. 

          • raptorboy

            Good post. Stu Jackson single handedly drove the Grizz from Vancouver. It`s ancient history but a real shame. Now he woeks in the NBA front office. I don`t get it.

  • Max

    I sure do wish some of the criticism on this forum would be a little more realistic. I agree, many players are lacking talent, still they have a difficult job, so some of the questioning of the player’s heart and intellect needs to stop.

    • FAQ

      I suspect many of the US players on the Ratpors are deeply depressed that their b’ball careers have sunk to such a low level having to play in Toronto, in a foreign country.

      It’s written all over DD’s face that he hates Toronto and wants to go back to the USA and play with his homies, where it matters.  DD is  a homeboy…so obvious.

       DD will abandon Toronto as quickly as he can, because the only reason he excelled was because the floor got spread for him to do his dainty dipsy-doodling…but no more and now he looks like a fish out of water.

      First round draft US college players dread the thought of being picked by Toronto even for the big money pot.  Good US FAs pizz on the Ratpors.

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        Maybe it’s because BC has cultivated a losing basketball culture in the TDot during his tenure as both Raptors President & GM?

        Create a winner and they will (want to) come but BC is all International style of basketball having turned the Raptors into an experimental team for Stern’s future Euro expansion plans for the NBA.

        • raptorboy

          Nothing to do with it. Its was happening before BC took over. If anything BC would lure more players over than his predecessors. Except for maybe Lenny Wilkins. I never liked the guy but he garnered alot of respect around the league. I know he was the coach but Im sure a good coach lures players as well. Casey will do the same in the coming years.

      • CaseyDaMan

        lmao. Soooo obvious, so we may as well ignore reality. You kids are hilarious.

      • voy

        I dont see this defeatist attitude regarding the city of Toronto.  Just because you play in one city doesn’t mean you have to live there for the entire year.  Do you think if Durant and Westbrook weren’t drafted by the Thunder, FAs would be stoked about playing in Oklahoma? 

        There are certain cultural centres that will always attract players – LA, NY.  But do you think any ball player would rather live in Utah or Toronto?  Where are all these FAs that are apparently going to every other nba city except Toronto?  You think anyone wants to go to Milwakee for the city?

        All things being equal, do you honestly think anyone would want to live in Minnesota or Toronto.

        The woe is the city of Toronto attitude is unfounded ,in my opinion.

        • Nilanka15

          Don’t forget to add Cleveland to the list of holes.

      • raptorboy

        I think they leave because they use T.O. as an excuse for their own shortcomings. How many players flourished in Toronto only to leave and watch their careers begin to tumble. Stoudamire definitely, Carter, Bosh will never get the status he had around the league that he got in T.O. Maybe TMac wouldvè done better too but he left way early. I got no problem with Euros who can ball. They are not soft players anymore. Cant wait to see JV get here.

      • Dan

        LOL you are the equivalent to FOX News. Did Bosh abandon Toronto on his first chance to re sign? How about Carter? Didn’t think so.

        Stop blatantly lying when you post. 

      • Lorenzo

        I think you’re EXTREMELY paranoid and think too much about things that aren’t important.

        • Dan

          You give him too much credit when you say he “thinks”