The Raptors really don’t have any untouchable players on the roster; I mean, if Boston came around and offered us Rondo straight up for Bargs, we’d all think hard about it (not easy to quickly dismiss that is it?). The simple facts are Calderon has responded positively, and much more successfully, to Casey than any of us could have imagined. He’s made himself a constant offensive threat on the floor,  while controlling tempo and creating for the rest of the team; that’s elite level point guarding (?) being exhibited (remember there is a difference between being elite, and exhibiting elite level talent from time-to-time)

Dwayne Casey:

We’re trying to hold on to him and keep him, but he has played his way into a very high status as a point guard. A lot of teams have been calling and wanting him.

Call me crazy, but the non-committal tone is something I don’t want to hear as a player, and Jose deserves more from this franchise. In fact, it has the stink of Danny Ainge all over it. It’s no secret that Jose needs to go if we really want to blow this mother up and rebuild, but the way he’s been playing…makes you second guess your armchair quarterbacking. He also deserves to be handled with the utmost respect, because that’s all he’s done for this city…

Trade speculation and free agency are my two favourite parts of the year by far. Rumours and plugging retarded scenarios into trade machine have been the only thing that has kept me going between mediocre season after season.

Before I get my head ripped off, let me go on the record as saying that I only support trading Jose IF it brings back young players who can be core pieces to build around, OR, brings back a youngish, serviceable replacement plus draft picks. I’m all for loyalty, but I’d rather have a winning team to cheer on.

The reality is that we could hold on to him, be happy with his stellar improvement, have his contract expire in 2013 then either resign him for half of what he’s getting now, or let him walk. Both scenarios hurt this team’s long term outlook because you aren’t getting max value for the guy by dealing with him at the right time.

Dumping Jose for cap relief makes no sense given how he’s playing and leading this team, so here are a few scenarios I’ve come up with that work and make some level of sense for the teams involved (in no particular order):

Raptors/Rockets/Lakers
To Rockets – Gasol
To Lakers – Calderon, Scola
To Raptors – Lowry
Trade Machine
Raptors do this because…they get a younger point guard who’s having a hell of a season, and save some money
Rockets do this because…they finally get Gasol, whom they covet for some reason
Lakers do this because…they upgrade at the point while getting a solid replacement for Gasol

Raptors/Lakers/Celtics
To Lakers – Calderon, Bass
To Boston – Bayless, Gasol
To Toronto – Rondo, Jermaine O’Neal
Trade Machine
Raptors do this because…it’s a no brainer
Celtics do this because…they can field a starting five of Bayless/Allen/Pierce/Garnett/Gasol; much better than what they have now
Lakers do this because…they upgrade at the point, clear $5mil from their cap and look to move Bynum for Howard to field a starting five of Calderon/Bryant/MWP/Bass/Howard

RaptorsSixers/Lakers
To Sixers – Gasol, Walton’s contract
To Lakers – Calderon, Brand
To Raptors – Evan Turner
Trade Machine
Raptors do this because…they save cap space and bring in a young swing guard who has lots of upside
Sixers do this because…they add an elite low-post scorer who can actually run the break with the other wings
Lakers do this because…upgrade at the point, and replace Gasol with a capable veteran

There was one more deal I came up with, that could happen if the pot was sweetened with picks and cash: Raptors send Calderon to Dallas for Odom and Beaubois (trade machine). Odom is useless, and I don’t want the shit-show that comes with Kardashian infection, but he will soon become ‘Odom’s expiring contract’ which will have some value. For Dallas, Jose could be a solid Plan B if they can’t land Deron Williams this summer; a core of Calderon/Nowitzki/Howard could compete for a championship for a few seasons.

I’m leaning towards the 1st scenario; it makes sense for all the teams involved, and the Raptors replace Calderon with Lowry, whose younger and makes half the money. Getting Rondo would be the best move to make here, but any deal that helps the C**tics drops to the bottom of my list. I concede each scenario has the Raptors getting back max value for Calderon, which doesn’t happen in real life, but desperate teams (Lakers, Celtics, Rockets, Knicks, Magic and the Nets ) in extraneous circumstances (lockout shortened season) will be working overtime to make something happen. BryCo needs to be ready.

  • JHP

    Interesting time of year !!  Jose has been a loyal employee and deserves to be on a playoff team. BC should get what he can and continue with the rebuild. But of course my guess is BC will either trade for an expiring contract or do nothing.  Wish I had his job, do nothing and get paid lol 

  • Lorenzo

    If any of the those trades happened, I would be more than happy. Especially the Rondo deal!!

    • c_bcm

      I am not so sure how I feel about rondo. That guy made his name by playing with 3 future hall of gamers at the back end of their peak. I think anyone would have thrived in that situation. I bet that he will regress back to the mean in the coming years. I don’t want him on this team.

      • CJT

        I agree with you totally.  And we would get JO again.  Why would this ever make sense to the franchise?  Calerdone is a premiere point guard and has shown that he is very good at running the team.  I want him on a playoff team too, but one with a Raptor on the jersey.

        • Sam Holako

          Sorry, I wasn’t clear but JO is an expiring contract at the end of the season; otherwise you’re right, it would be a retarded move.

          • Pesterm1

            lol. if we can get rondo on this team….. F calderon. i mean that in a very nice way. love the guy but its a buisness. ADIOS muchacho

        • What the

          who the fuck is calerdone fool

          • CJT

            Ya, you should be the guy talking about spelling mistakes.

  • Balls of Steel

    I like all the trade scenarios but it simply doesn’t makes sense for the other teams and tremendously benefits us. Rondo, Lowry and Turner are very good pieces coming back. I just don’t see those teams pulling it off. If BC does manage to do so, I’m tattooing his portrait on my body. Really.

    • Sam Holako

      So replacing Gasol with Calderon AND Scola for a team without a real point guard, makes no sense? Also, the Rockets were willing to give up much more for Gasol in the summer (Martin, Scola, parts and picks).

      I concede the second scenario is the least likely to happen; I pulled that out of my ass.

    • Methayusking

       i agree. although calderon’s value to the Raps has been very high of late, i dont think he is in the caliber of a rondo or gasol to be involved in such a trade.  and if the lakers do want him, it doesnt make sense for them to trade Pau since he has a very strong connection with calderon and theyre going to execute that pick and roll to perfection.
      my guess is if BC does trade Jose, it will be for the exemption(whoever has it) plus either picks or expiring contracts.

    • Theswirsky

      the trades above are simply unrealistic, unless one believes LA absolutely NEEDS to unload Gasol.  I simply don’t believe that to be the case. 

      LA gets handcuffed and molested in every single deal above. 

      • Lorenzo

        So do we, if we trade Calderon for fucking Darius Morris? I mean Really?? If the guy can’t get any PT over Derek Fisher (worst starting PG in the league) well then what upside could there possibly be to this? He’s a total scrub and shouldn’t be involved in any trade with the Raptors without some first round picks involved.

        I’ve been following a bunch of forum threads and I’ve seen a handful of trade scenarios for Calderon that were just terrible, one involved us trading Amir and Calderon for fucking Boris Diaw and Derrick Brown or something like that. REALLY??

        Bottom line is, Raptor fans settle for too little for a one-of-a-kind PG in Jose Calderon.

  • 511

    I think we should keep Jose. We know there are point guards who’ve simply gotten better with age … and knowing what we’ve learned – and are learning more about, constantly – regarding nutrition and overall health and athletic effectiveness as one ages (30 years old isn’t really what it used to be), and then factoring in who the Raptors have as the director of sports science, Alex McKechnie — a highly regarded strength and conditioning coach who’s probably as qualified as anyone out there at keeping players not just healthy enough to stay on the floor, but to do so, effectively — and I’d guess that the chances of Jose continuing at the level he’s been showing, are good for a length of time, yet. Combine other factors like experience, demeanor and improving (it seems to me) shot-making ability … I’d rather, if we’re going to trade for talent, do whatever else we can to get a young pg that Jose can mentor, while we’re still getting what we are from his own play. I just don’t see all the upside to letting him go right now, that others seem to. 

  • Canuckcarpenter

    Wow… those are horrible trades for the Lakers.  How do I get on the front page with trade scenarios?

  • Draftstar

    Really like Rondo and think he could be part of a big three. His play in the last few minutes of games (“where the real game is played”) is outstanding. I think Lowry could be a starter on a championship team but would come in with less fanfare. Haven’t watched enough Sixers to know where Turner is on the development scale but would take him just based on where he was picked. This is right down BC’s alley – don’t always like the players he chooses or how much he pays but love his deal making skills. If we could only point his cannon in the right direction – hopefully Stefanski and Casey can help with that???

  • Theswirsky

    I agree with the theme of this post.  Trading Jose just for the sake of trading Jose is a waste.  If he nets some quality young assets (players or picks) I think you do it,  but the name ‘Jose’ and unload should not be, nor should have ever been, in the same sentence.  The trades above would be absolutely fantastic for Toronto (although I have my doubts on Evans, but thats not entirely relevant) and the Houston & Celtics deals are down right ‘fans will crucify their GM for half a decade’ fleecings.

    Which is one reason I think NBA trade machine may have been the most damaging creation to rational basketball thinking.  (not exclusive to the trades above, but in general and the common Lebron for Gilbert Arena’s contract like trades people like to try and justify). 

    ” if Boston came around and offered us Rondo straight up for Bargs, we’d all think hard about it (not easy to quickly dismiss that is it?). ”

    Think hard about it?  You take that deal immediately before Danny Ainge sobers up.  This is a guy that was in trade talks for CP3, consistently a league leader in assist, perhaps the best defensive PG in the league and the cog that ran a dynasty contending team (with a championship no less) and all that and just turned 26.     

  • stunned

    This is ridiculous. Only a simpleton would think these trades have any chance of occurring.
    Scenario one would never happen because the Rockets are not trading Lowry with the season he is having. In what universe can you trade Calderon for a younger, better player with a more reasonable contract? Not happening.
    Scenario two is equally unfathomable. The Lakers would never trade away an All-star in Gasol, for Bass (a journeyman scrub), and Calderon (who had zero trade value at the start of the season). Again, it’s laughable to think we could trade Calderon for a younger, better player, with a reasonable contract (ie Rondo). Also funny here because you suggest this would ‘help’ Boston, and you even go on to place Bayless in Boston’s starting five. Is this because of his underwhelming injury ridden season on a useless team? Bayless has zero trade value and Boston would probably start Bradley before him.
    Scenario three is the only one that even seems possible. Even though Turner looks like a bust, at least this would allow us to put Bayless in the starting unit, because apparently he is a starter on a contending team. Ha.

    • Raps Loyalist

      Totally agree with your points on trades #1 and #2 (these are total homer trades ridiculously stacked in Toronto’s favor and would never happen)…Trade #3 is not happening either! Philly would disagree that Evan Turner is a bust.  He’s a good young player on a wing heavy playoff team so he doesn’t get the playing time of most #2 picks in their 1st and 2nd years.  Philly is not trading him in a package for Gasol.  Philly sees Turner, Holiday, and Young as their future core for the 8 years.  There have been multiple reports that Turner is untouchable.

      The most realistic Jose trade

      To Lakers:  Jose and Barbosa

      To Raptors: Steve Blake, Luke Walton, the Lakers’ Lamar Odom trade exception and 2 first round draft picks (Lakers’  2012 and Dallas’s 2012, which Lakers own)

      Lakers do this b/c the get the PG they need and a fast scoring guard off the bench without giving up any good player. Plus Barbosa expires this year and Jode next so no long-term financial commitments.  This trade makes them a contender this year as it allows them to keep their strenghts (inside size,Kobe) and address their three weaknesses (a PG, speed, and bench scoring).

      Raptors do this because we are losing Barbosa anyways and so Jose for 2 first round picks in a deep draft is totally worth it.  There will be great prospects available in the 20s of this draft.

      • mountio

        sign me up all day for this one. I think its more realistic that LAL just do Jose for the pick … but I would sure as hell do this deal in a split second .. Im just not sure the Lakers are ready to give up both picks ..

        • Raps Loyalist

          If they don’t want to give both picks this year.  They could do one 2012 first rounder and one 2013 first rounder instead. I still think that is a good deal for the Raps as well as the Lakers.  The Kobe window is this year and next…Lakers need to turn their future picks into a title push this year and next.

          Plus, I think Pau would really respond to having Jose on the team.  And Jose would get Pau and Bynum so many good looks that a lot of pressure would be taken off Kobe.

          If Lakers did this trade I would pick them over OKC in West as the favorite easily

      • Raps4Ever

         I don’t believe that’s possible, as TPEs can only be used in single player transactions.

        • Raps Loyalist

           you could make two separate trades if that is the case

          • Raps4Ever

             The league doesn’t accept such blatant smoke and mirrors, but if they did, what would these separate trades be that work?

            • Raps Loyalist

              Jose for Steve Blake, Luke Walton, and a pick

              Barbosa for the TPE and a pick (ie the exact same trade the lakers and mavs did with Odom)

              • Raps4Ever

                You think taking on $6.1M for Walton next year, and $4M for Blake for each of next 2 years, while giving up Jose for a very late first rounder is smart? To each his own. I’d want BCs balls on a platter if he did that. Those 2 filling up 2 roster spots next year for the same $ as Jose, plus also being stuck with Blake for another year?

                If the Lakers offered that deal for Barbosa, I’m pretty sure it would get BCs attention. Any indication, or even logic, that the Lakers would offer that? I hope they do, but LB is not what they need. They need a PG, and LA doesn’t have anything that they can offer that BC should even think about.

                • Raps Loyalist

                  First, the TPE can be used in multiplayer trades.  If divided into two trades they would still be part of the same transaction just done as two separate moves so evaluate it that way. 

                  Barbosa is gone at year end and Jose is here for next year then will sign with a contender unless Raps overpay for him at age 32.  Neither is part of the future here.  Both are helping the team get wins this year we don’t need (Blake and Walton would fill their spots but be less effective).

                  For L.A.

                  Jose = good pass first PG
                  Barbosa = good bench scorer who is fast and can guard both guard spots and play a little PG with Kobe at the 2

                  THESE ARE THE LAKERS MAIN NEEDS!

                  This trade makes the Lakers contender this year so they do it cause the Kobe window is closed in a year or two and they don’t have to sacrifice Gasol or Bynum.

                  For T.

                  Jose and Barbosa won’t be in Toronto long-term.  We are rebuilding so the smart thing to do is get picks for them.  Blake and Walton on the books for next season (and Blake for 4 million one after that) is inconsequential because the Raps are building through the draft and cap space mean jack because no big time free agent is signing here in the next two years anyways.

                  Right now the 2 first rounders would be picks 20 and 24.

                  There will be really good talent there to draft from! This is a super deep draft so these would be like mid-teen picks in other years.

                  3 first round draft picks going into next season is WAY better than no barbosa and one more year of Jose (even if you have to pay Blake $4 million in 2013 to be your backup)

                  Get your mind right son! For a rebuilding team these are the types of trade you do to get some good young players on your roster.  TORONTO is not signing any good free agents this offseason or next so the draft is all we got the next few years might as well maximize it if you can instead of just letting Jose and Barbosa walk for nothing in return a la Bosh!

                • Raps4Ever

                   LOL, “son”? Okay grandpa. Be sure to take your meds today so you can keep telling us what’s on Jose’s mind and how to manage the Lakers and Raptors. You’re out to lunch on this one, but amusing. Keep it up sport!

                • Raps Loyalist

                  Got nothing hey Raps4ever so looks like I shot your ass down.

                  Jay-Z “Get You Mind Right Mami”

                  I didn’t think you were a girl but judging by how sensitive and emotional you are I could be wrong.

                  Sorry sweetie

                  Oh yeah and Jose wanting to sign with a contender instead of one of the worst teams in the league if the money’s close doesn’t take mind reading…unless you’re a chump

                • Raps4Ever

                  Brave little pecker on the interweb aren’t you, but thanks for the Jose psych lessons. You’ve obviously been talking to him lately, so pardon my questioning your immense expertise.

                • Raps Loyalist

                   Would you rather play for a contender or one of the worst teams in the league if the money was roughly equal?  Would you rather marry a 10 or a 2 if her personality and everything else was  the same?

                  Tough choices hey bub?

  • Truthkiller

    I think Houston has made it very clear that they’re open to trading but the one guy their not giving up is Lowry.

    • Raps4Ever

       Truth.

  • Brain Colangelo

    None of these will happen because Calderon is not as good as he’s played. These are all no brainers except the Lowry deal which I’d support but is not a no brainer.

  • mountio

    These trades all work just all well (arguably better) without us .. Calderon is just thrown in. Lets take a look
    #1 – wouldnt you rather have Scola and Lowry vs Scola and Jose if youre LA?
    #2 – wouldnt you rahter have Rondo and Bass vs Jose and Bass if youre LA?
    #3 – (this one is the closest) wouldnt you rather have Turner and Brand than Jose in Brand?

    Said another way, if the stand alone trade wouldnt happen (ie Jose for Rondo, Jose for Lowry, Jose for Turner), then the combo doesnt work just because you throw in Gasol.

    The realistic trade is Jose to LAL for their first rounder and somone’s salary (Walton?) back. This could happen and is all we are going to get for Jose (and I would do it).  I grant that Jose has played very well .. but hes simply not part of the future (whereas AB, DD, Ed, JJ, Amir all at least COULD be part of the future)

  • Tim

    Both of the trades are TOO GOOD and one sided for Toronto !!! Getting back Rondo !!! Are you kidding me ? You will not get anything like that for Jose.
    I will be surprised if the AlMighty BC makes any move before trade dead line. Why should be interrupt his “scouting trips” to Europe for that ?? 

    Maximum we will get for Jose is a 1st round pick which is pretty decent but if we want to trade anyone, we should focus on:

    Bayless, Amir Johnson, Barbosa first and then a guy like Jose who can actually help the team.

    By the way, DOES anyone know when AB is going to be back ??

  • mountio

    btw – if anyone is watching this Kentucky game and doesnt think we should take Davis if we get the first overall pick .. you are CRAZY

  • Tinman

    Don’t find any of the trades realistic- it just seems that we come out way ahead in all. Either expect Colangelo to go for young potential and a first round pick. One thing I don’t think mentioned has been by dealing Calderon we help cement a low draft pick. That will be the biggest return.
    Or to keep him- 511 summed it up best in his above comment. A healthy Jose might be the best thing for this team for the next five or six season’s. Our training staff ranks with the best and in the brief time Casey has had to teach, our team defence has shown improvement. Does anyone not think that Jose would be a great mentor to a young PG?
    Our salary cap situation is good with or without Jose’s contract next season. Trade Bayless. 

    • What the

      5 or 6 more years of  Speedy LORD help us

  • Jeffrey Thompson

    I doubt the Raptors/Celtics/Lakers will ever happen.  Celtics are not going to give up Rondo, a two time All Star in Rajon for Jerryd bayless.  And the Lakers giving up Gasol for Brandon Bass? Doubtful.   And I doubt the Lakers would give up a person in Pau Gasol who is 7foot for a 6’9″ guy in Scola.  None of those trades are even remotely logical nor feasible. 

    • CJT

      I don’t understand why the Allstar claim is important when discussing players.  Being an Allstar doesn’t have anything to do with perfomance necessarily it has to do with popularity.  Anything chosen by the fans should be viewed as a glorified American Idol.  Remember the year Yao was selected despite having not played a game in 2 years.  Really?

      • mountio

        perhaps your point is correct .. all star isnt the be all and end all. BUT – it certainly helps seperate scrubs (Bayless) from very good players (Rondo). These are clearly a different class of player. Same for Jose and Rondo. The fact that Rondo made an all star team isnt the only reason that is true, but its a resonable test.
        Also – remember that outside of the starters, the subs are chosen by the coaches (who should at least know something about the quality of basketball players)

  • TankCommander

    I think most of us can agree that we won’t get fair value back for Jose so we’re better off just holding onto him.  I believe Jose will be huge for Val’s development next year and just for development of all our players in general.  I personally want him to be a lifer and want to keep him as a backup for as long as he’s able to play.

    • mountio

      I agree that we wont get “fair value” (ie a player who is just as good as Jose now) .. but I dont agree at all that we are better off holding him. Id be more than happy to trade him for a late first rounder – which is obviously of less value today, but hopefully much more value 2-3 years from now

  • TankCommander

    Oh and not to mention the Lakers basically lose in all three trade scenarios.  I think Gasol has more value than what you perceive.  The only plausible trade imo is the Houston scenario since they covet Gasol but the Lakers would need to receive more than Jose + Scola.  But even that’s a stretch because I don’t think they would be interested in receiving Gasol if they didn’t have Lowry.  

  • mutombofingerwag

    Judging by our luck ( Chandler, Diaw, Barnes,W. Chandler), these will never happen

  • Sheptor

    What is Jose doing wrong exactly? Oh yeah he has been here for 6 years and we haven’t won anything so he MUST go in order to “Rebuild” properly….NONSENSE. Keep him. He is playing like a top 5 pg in the league this year and seems to be over his injuries. If we are going to be a better team next year than keep him. He deserves to be around and I’m sure he would like to be part of a winning team again in T.O.

    Our trade bait (in no order) is
    Barbosa, Bayless, Ed, and Amir.

    James Johnson isn’t going anywhere and I doubt Kleiza is either with Jonas coming next year.

    • Lorenzo

      Exactly. Keep Jose. Nothing (realistically) we could possibly get will be better than Jose as our starting PG. And we sure as HELL are not starting Bayless next year, or any year.

    • mountio

      top 5 pg in the league …? Lets start (in no particular order)
      Rose
      Paul
      Westbrook
      Rondo
      Nash

      Jose

      Who doesnt belong in this group?

      I could go on with the next 5, of which Jose doesnt belong in either.

      Yes, hes playing well. Hes probably a top half (ie top 15?) PG in the league today, and hes on the downside of his career (and has been very injury prone over the last 3-4 years). So – if you can turn him into a draft pick (Lakers?) or prospect .. thats a good trade for this team.

      • Destro

        Nash/Rondo over Deron Williams who in my books is arguably 1b smh…

        and Jose top 15 is being very generous,i could name 20 plus PGs in the league right now id take over him right now no hesitation..in fact im going to list them just so the brigade may shed a few tears…

        1.CP
        2.D-Will
        3.D-Rose
        4.Rondo
        5.Westbrook
        6.Nash
        7.Rubio
        8.Lowry
        9.Irving
        10.Wall
        11.Jennings
        12.Collison
        13.Parker
        14.Mo Williams
        15.Curry
        16.Conley
        17.Holiday
        18.Teague
        19.Miller
        20.Stuckey 

  • Matt52

    The Rockets have been unwilling to include Lowry in any trade for Gasol.  The Lakers have offered Gasol for Lowry and Scola and have been turned down according to rumours.  The Rockets are willing to do Scola and Martin for Gasol but the Lakers say no.

    I don’t see the Rockets giving up Lowry – whether to the Raptors or Lakers.

  • Daniel

    OK, I’ll throw my two cents here: trading Calderon will be the final nail in Colangelo’s coffin as Raptors’ GM.
    Jose is the ultimate “Moneyballer”, one of the most efficient PG in the history of NBA. In 1 or 2 years he will be the undisputed best pure PG in NBA. When you add that I predict in the same timespan the “New Age” PG’s fad will fad away then you realize Jose’s value. Coaches love Jose for his extraordinary game management: he has had the same assist ratio in the Bosh era, in Triano’s era and in Casey’s era, each era very different in style and approach.  Streetballers confuse brilliance with efficiency. There is a reason why never in the history of NBA PG’s as first or second scoring option have won a championship. Jose is currently 3rd in NBA in assists in a very select company with a roster that’s seriously challenged offensively.
    One more thing: it’s very instructive to watch how opinions become self-evident truths by repetition. There are two such “truths” floating around among Raptors’ fanbase: Jose is not part of the future plans for this team and he should be happy to get a 4-5 million deal from us at the end of this contract. Both opinions are beyond idiotic. Kidd won a championship at 37 years old, Nash, Andre Miller are very productive in their late 30’s and they have the same style of play as Jose’s. It seems obvious to me that athletic PG’s will have a shorter shelf life compared with pass-first, facilitator ones. In regards to the second point: Jose will be a hot commodity at the end of his contract and he will command at least 8 million/year. In addition he declared he’d like to play for a contender which is code words for  having enough with the winless Raptors unless they turn it around next season.
    In conclusion, Raptors currently have no other PG or playmaker, for that matter. A drafted PG will take years to develop with uncertain outcome. CP3, Deron Williams, and Rose will not sign for Toronto. All things considered Jose is pure gold for Raptors’ organization however a part of the fanbase clamours nothing less than trading, amnestying or otherwise getting rid of him. It all makes sense, doesn’t it?  

    • mountio

      Ultimate moneyballer? A guy who was at the top of the list of potential amnesties for the Raps at the start of the year?
      I dont mind Jose at all (although it sounds like Im bashing him here today to get people into reality on this post). BUT – lets be realistc about what he has been. He has had a couple of good partial seasons, got massively overpaid and is playing well again for the first time in 3-4 years. He gets assists, yes, but he also often dribbles around untli there is 4 or 5 seconds on the shot clock and then makes a pass. The next guy only has one option – to shoot. Even with our talent, they will make some of those shots.
      Outside of the odd Amir lob on the pick and roll, I cant think of many ways that Jose actually sets his teamates up for an easy hoop.
      On top of all this, hes a weak defender.
      Having said all that, hes probably in the top half of PGs in the league and one of our better players. If time was going to stand still, Id be all over keeping him. But, 2-3 years from now, he will likely be somewhat ineffective and / or injured. As a result, if we can get value for him .. we should jump at it now.

      • dalmatino

        mountio, what you think is ” realistic ” doesn’t mean is realistic for majority of Raptor’s fans.
        By my understanding of basketball, Daniel’s post is more realistic than yours, but you are agianst his opinion because it is totally opposite of yours and basically negate your ” realism “.

        • mountio

          ummm .. ok?
          Not sure I can argue what you are saying, which is basically “in my opinion, from what I understand of basketball, Jose is a great pointguard [and a good value at $12mm/year if you agree with daniel’s post]”. If thats your opinion .. then either a) you dont understand basketball or b) you understand it just fine and simply look at the facts different than I do.
          One way or the other I guess all I can say is “ok”…

          • CJT

            You have to also conceed that all of your points are based on opinion as well.  That is ok, but don’t confuse the fact that this is just a differing set of opinions.  The facts and stats support that Jose is a very good point guard and vastly under appreciated by the fanbase here.  No one knows how good he will be in 2 or 3 years, what the team will look like, if Jose wants out of Toronto etc etc.

            • mountio

              ok .. at the heart of all of this, everything is technically an opinion – so yes, I grant you that.
              However, there is a difference between having an opinion (see below for more on this) such as D Rose is worse than Jose because Jose has better FT%, APG, A/turnover ratio (which less than 0.1% of the population would agree with) and having an opinion that D Rose is a vastly superior player to Jose regardless of what those stats say (primarily because he is a great scorer, draws double teams and creates plays for himself and teamates) … an “opinion” that 99.9% of the population would agree with.
              Yes, both are opinions. Yes, neither can be “proven”. But, Id argue my opinion on this matter is a lot more valid than the other ..

              • CJT

                I wasn’t trying to suggest that Jose is better than Rose, simply that he is a very good point guard in the league and under appreciated by Raptor rans.  Rose is an impact player and has the ability to change the course of a franchise for the positive and the negative.  He can single handedly win games but can also single handedly lose games as we witness in the Conference finals last year when he had turnover after turnover and cost  Chicago the series.

                • mountio

                  I guess you can say he “cost” them the series .. but then again, as the MVP of the league, hes the sole reason they were there in the first place. So .. ill take an MVP that makes the odd turnover if thats your point.
                  As for Jose .. yes, hes a good point guard. Top half of the league and on the downside of his career. Hes our 2nd best player. I grant you all of this. Im just admitting that hes not part of our future given age and injury problems..

                • CJT

                  I agree with you, that Rose was the reason that they were in the series in the first place.  I am not sure about the downside of Jose’s career, but I understand why you say this because of his hamstring history etc.  I hope you are wrong and that his next 3 or 4 season are also strong.

                • mountio

                  I hope so too (espeically if hes still on the raps!) … I just wouldnt bet on it

      • http://twitter.com/Liston Tom Liston

        Also top 10 PG in true shooting percentage, #3 in assists per game, career 38% 3pt shooter, #2 PG for free throw shooting, and #1 (by a long shot) in assist-to-turnover ratio.  
        Quite a few teams would benefit from his ability – especially the Lakers (who also won’t worry age – they need to win now)

        • mountio

          Totally agree. Hes a good player now (when healthy), especially when you look at efficiency stats on the offensive end you could even say very good. The Lakers should be jumping all over a trade for him – he is a huge upgrade. And we should be jumping at the trade if offered.
          The other contenders that are in win now mode – OKC (westbrook), Chi(Rose), Dallas (Kidd), Miami (no cap room), SA (parker), Bos (Rondo), LAC (Paul), Houston (Lowry) .. not sure he brings enough to the table to justify giving us a late 1st rounder.
          Bottom line .. as Ive said a few times .. hes a top half PG in the league. Thats a good thing. Thats why teams will think about giving us something decent in return that can help us 2-3 years from now. Thats why we should do a deal.

          • Daniel

            If he’s good for the Lakers why is he not good for us? Ain’t we not in the business of winning? Or you think our destiny is to be a farm team for the “real” teams?

            • mountio

              Its a matter of now vs later. If we were making a championship run this year (or even next), I keep Jose all day every day. But we arent! Our time is  2-3 years from now at best .. and Jose wont be a part of that.
              Im not sure what is so difficult to understand about this concept.
              Jose is good now. Lakers are good now. We are not good now. We need to get young. Jose will be over the hill or injured by the time we get good.

              • Daniel

                You are making the assumption that Jose “later’ will be a worse player than Jose “now”. The statistical evidence among current or past PG’s in the same mold as Jose prove the contrary: pass-first, facilitator PG’s tend to uphold their production throughout their career and even get better with age. Your assumption proves to me that either you are new to basketball or you have an inherent bias. 

                • mountio

                  No inhernet bias .. Ive just been watching Jose struggle to hold up physically over the last 3 or 4 years. This year has been an exception .. no doubt about it .. he has been very healthy and productive. Im not willing to take the chance that this we be the case (ie healthy and productive) 2-3 years+ from now. Is Nash / Kidd 2.0 possible? Sure .. but those guys didnt have nearly the injury history that Jose had earlier in his career.
                  And for the record .. Id love to see Jose successful for 4-5 years from now .. but its not a matter of what Id like to see its a matter of what I think will happen…

                • Pizzaman

                  For what it’s worth I believe Jose is the best point guard the Raptors have ever had, and he is definitely one of the better point guards in the league. Unfortunately he has been injured and playing next to Demar has not helped his defense. I also do not think he is overpaid considering what other guys in this league are getting, and while I’m not opposed to trading him or anyone else to get better just who is going to play point guard next year and the year after. We have absolutely no one who can play the position remotely close to Jose’s level, and the draft is not full of great point guards, and I don’t see a ton of teams lined up to give away their point guards. It is the most important position on the floor and until we have another option it makes total sense to keep him. Imaging how bad this team will be next year with Bargs, Jonas a draft pick and likely Demar being anchored by someone like Bayless!

        • FLUXLAND

          What stats will never capture or be able to measure, why REAL players do not care about stats, the intangibles prudent GMs look for when drafting…your Kobes, Perks, Westbrooks, Manus etc, etc etc..:

          “He reminds me of Isiah Thomas. He puts fear in you just like Isiah
          did. His teammates will follow him like they followed Isiah, and he has
          that attitude of ‘I’m not going to lose at any cost’ and that
          tenacity. … But off the court, he’s one of the nicest, most polite
          young men that I’ve ever met.”

           – Fat Lever on D. Rose.

    • Puffer

      Daniel is correct in his assessment of Calderon. I am onboard with this point of view.

    • FLUXLAND

      Interesting stuff as always, minus the “crystal ball” predictions, but
      it’s repetitive and predictably limited to the “glass half full”
      thinking analysis. 

      “the “New Age” PG’s” ??  – is this one of your “opinions become
      self-evident truths by repetition”?

      I’m seeing this term in the comments section often, but it leads me to
      think “either you are new to basketball or you have an inherent bias.”

      I think a definition of it here would help.

      Kidd won a championship at 37 years old – really?  I am not a Kidd fan,
      but he won that chip after taking, no CARRYING Nets teams to the
      Finals…point being mostly, he had a stacked playoff resume. How would
      rate Jose’s as a non Raptor GM?

      Nash? I do not hear too often (ever?) of players leaving TO, who
      express their time spent with Jose as one that made them better
      players. You continually insist he is “pure gold” and the “undisputed
      best pure PG in NBA”, why is it we never hear of players wanting to play
      with him? By your analysis, shouldn’t ever player in the NBA be
      expressing this interest?  And while we are here, I keep hearing about this “mentoring” Jose can provide..you have to have a resume that provides credibility to that mentoring. Again, would you argue he has one? Young players do not listen to anyone unless you are wearing rings or they admired you as player.

      “he declared he’d like to play for a contender” – this makes the rest of
      the team wanna play for him, right? Even Nash has the sensibility to
      understand this is something you do not say. EVER.

      “There is a reason why never in the history of NBA PG’s as first or
      second scoring option have won a championship.” Interesting.  How do
      you feel about Zeke? 

      Is a PG a first or second option, when and if he is a constant threat
      when disrespected? (i.e. left unchecked, forgotten about by too much focus on
      the opposing team’s what you consider the first option). Even say –
      Derek Fisher, what was he? The 57th option on his Laker teams? That
      never changed the fact he would deliver every time the team needed it –
      on command you could say – but, I’m guessing! he’s not up there in the
      nauseating efficient PG argument. I could be wrong.

      “Or you think our destiny is to be a farm team for the “real” teams?” 
      See now you are getting it. The Nets team a farm team for Kidd? Suns a
      farm team for Nash? Etc, etc, etc. 

      • CJT

        How would I rate Jose as an opposing GM….hmmm how about a starting point guard on multiple WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP teams.  That would be a good starting point. 

        • FLUXLAND

          Yes, it would. And the end point would look something like this:

          In summary, he’s an over paid, injury prone role player with next to zero NBA playoff experience, who’s best years are behind him and who can’t stop anyone. Nice guy, good for marketing; will fall into obscurity Anthony Parker (aka the Jordan of Europe) style, upon leaving TO.

          • What the

            boom! +1

          • CJT

            This is your opinion and you are welcome to it.  There is nothing to suggest his best years are behind him in fact as has been mentioned several times in this post, pass first point guards tend to have much longer careers than drive and kick guards. 

            • FLUXLAND

              That depends of your definition of pass first. And more importantly, they were much more than pass first PGs in the earlier stages.  He is nowhere near the same class of those players – in fact he can be described as a pass ONLY PG.  (No, I don’t care that he’s been putting up shots to sell his stock)

              And you are still ignoring his deficiencies – what is going to happen with those?  The chances injury diminishes as you get older? His D is gonna improve.

              Tendancies and suggestions are not realities – with Raps fans they are hopes and dreams –  like gathering stats and implying players after 5 yrs in the L will put up better numbers.

    • Raps Loyalist

       You know nothing of NBA history

      “”There is a reason why never in the history of NBA PG’s as first or second scoring option have won a championship””

      Isiah Thomas? Magic Johnson? Oscar Robertson? Tony Parker finals MVP? all 1st or second options buddy

      If you want to overpay to keep Calderon from going to a contender at age 32 that is your dumb opinion and your entitled to it.

      Most of us realize the Raps are years away from fielding a contender and don’t view that contender being run by a 37 year-old Jose Calderon.

      Trade him now to get some young talent or pick in return.  Otherwise watch him walk just like Bosh and we get jack in return.

      GMing and NBA historian aren’t your callings…stick to your day job Daniel

      • Theswirsky

        there is a significant difference between passing PGs who can also score, and scoring PGs. 

        Don’t get the two confused. 

        • Raps Loyalist

          He said PGs that were 1st or 2nd options on their team. 

          Those guys were all 1st or 2nd SCORING options that can also dish.  As was Billups on Detroit’s latest title team.

          I didn’t say they were scoring first guards that couldn’t pass.

          For example, Nash is a 1st or 2nd scoring option on the Suns even though he would rather pass.  It is dictated by the scoring threats you have on your team.  Isiah, Magic, Billups, Parker, Robertson all needed to be 1st or 2nd options for their teams to win so they took on the load.

          He said never in history had this happened…but it obviously has.

           

          • FLUXLAND

            Exactly. Thank you. 

      • W.W. – Worthless Writer.

        I was saving the Magic and Tony questions for him.  I still want to know what a “New Age PG” may be.

        And then he accuses people of being new to basketball, when it’s clear he’s a Jose raised baby.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_SJT6LQ6HZQWMPJMT22LTN24UUY Antonino Ferraro

    I don’t know what will happen in the future, but we have to understand who we are. Toronto is a nice city better than most american places, but for certain reasons no one is pleased to come here. So, the two best players in our roster are Calderon and Bargnani, and we want to get rid of Calderon? Do it but for who? I don’t want imagine a future and see Bayless as the PG because he isn’t. It is clear that no one real PG will come here and only a miracle can give us another player like o better than Calderon.

    For me the good thing is add talent around them, and at the end of the next year ( possibly with a competitive team) evaluate how good or not was Jose. I don’t foresee nothing worst that sending one of the best PG for pick or player with less talent.

    Is quite impossible see Celtics without Rondo. The first trade scenario has more sense.

    • Daniel

      The problem is tthat at the end of the next season it will be Calderon who will evaluate the Raptors and not the other way around. He holds all the Aces and we hold none.

    • Pizzaman

      Bayless is neither a point guard or a two guard and comparisons of him to Barbosa are insane. He is not a point guard nor does he try to be one, and he is a bad floor general especially for keeping his teammates involved. He also is not a scoring spark of Barbosa’s nature because he cannot finish at the rim, and while he can create his own shot he is not a great shooter. Barbosa can weave through players to score even in packed defenses, whereas Bayless usually commits a charge in the same situation.
      We need to keep Jose unless we get a true point guard back somewhere, even if he is not as good now but one that is almost a sure prospect.
      I am looking forward to next year when I believe the Raptors will likely earn a playoff spot because of having Jonas, another top pick and a signing or two. It will not happen without a good point guard.

  • Steve

    Calderon Trade Scenarios, I remember this time last year the Picket Fence guy was talking about Bargnani trade scenarios, and all of them involved getting nothing back in return. Good old Picket Fence guy, quite the piece of work.

  • RapthoseLeafs

    .
    If I could say one thing about this season, it’s been the dueling predictive and unpredictive nature, that has made this an interesting season – albeit, tough at times to watch.

    Bargnani has progressed – goes both ways now (lol). Small Forward is maybe not so needy, and Jose is dishwater proof ….. . “Hamstrings” . Add Grey, who may simply be that big body for special occasions, ideal for the 4th or 5th Big spot, but he is also one with 3rd place potential – the first Big off the Bench. Grey also seems comfortable with his role.
    .

    For every star we need from the draft, solidifying role players has a place in this rebuilding project. Parachuting in this kind of talent – when it appears Contending status is viable – is subject to mismatch potential. Good teams tend to have their core together for years before success – the Boston parachuting season excepted. 

    But when it comes to Jose, the more I see him around this team, the more I believe it would be a mistake to trade him. There are always exceptions – like if we could get Lebron for JC (lol) – I’m sure I could make an exception.

    IMO, he is much more valuable than we give him credit for. He may not be here when we truly have the right mix, but he could very well be there in a back-up, leadership, veteran, able to start – Point Guard role. He gives Raptors 2 choices, while staying on the same road – for the most part. 

    Calderon’s value is not simply in him, but what he helps develop in others. In a backward sort of way, Raptors need to be mindful that “The needs of the many outweigh …. the needs of the few.” In this case, the “few” is about getting something good for JC. The many could include JV – a pairing I would love to see for its’ potential. 
    .

    Calderon is a loyal, hard working, different under Casey, veteran. Someone who can illustrate and demonstrate a leadership, as his time grows. A leader who can show the “next” PG how it’s done. How to lead a team, while understanding that a good Point Guard needs to control the ball, and his team. Calderon is a pass first kind of guy, who can – as he has shown – light it up. He’s 30, with at least 6 – 7 years left, more if he was to move to back-up in 2 years.

    Calderon is the reason why – in the up-coming draft – that I would like Raptors to aim for a PG, with next choice being a SG. Of course one takes the best player, but if we’re drafting 7th or 8th, that “best player” definition can become very subjective.

    Jose is the ideal “hold the fort – while developing the young guys” quarterback, who could transition into a back-up Mentor/Leader. For me, JC’s worth goes beyond the tunnel vision we have for him.   
    .

  • RapthoseLeafs

    .

    http://www.hoopsstats.com/basketball/fantasy/nba/playerstats/12/2/eff/6-1

    Top 10 Point Guards (eff) – Last 10 games
    With every team feeling the effects of a compressed schedule, these stats are an indictment of Jose’s health.

    Jose – Rated 6th (21.3)
    Assists – 2nd (Nash in front with 13.3 per game)
    Turnovers – 1st (2.1 per game)
    Defensive Rebounds – 4th (3.4 per game)
    fg% – 1st  (.519)
    3pt% – 1st (.464)

    .

    • raptorsuck

      And why he is not in the Skills Challenge in All Star, if he is that good?

    • Pizzaman

      he needs to be here to play with Bargs and Jonas, unless we pull magic strings and suddenly aquire a superstar point guard somewhere.

  • Mookie

    I was thinking Calderon probably should go to Portland for Felton and Nolan Smith. Portland is close to the playoffs and Calderon could be a good investment. Raps get a try with Felton who expires and a good prospect in Nolan Smith (next Billups).

  • Sek99

    Uhh. . . I’ve read all the comments and they all mention how great Jose is at this, turnover assist ratio that etc. It’s all garbage when you’re playing on a team that has never even come close to being a contender. You can say that we were missing pieces and had poor teams and all that or even mention injuries, but whatever the excuses the results speak for themselves. Bosh, a perennial all-star along with many decent role players with a PG who some of you tout to be a great player should be in the playoffs year after year, as well as at least win more than 1 game. Come on. I like Jose, he’s seems like a great guy and has handled himself very well over his tenure, but the fact is that winning and Jose, at least on our team, are separated. Trade him for a 15+ draft pick and/or prospects and you can’t go wrong.

    Beyond all the aforementioned reasons, I also don’t particularly enjoy watching Jose play. His passes aren’t all that nice, and I’ve said time and time again that he makes smart decisions but does not create opportunities for his teammates like the greats do. Especially in this league when it seems like every team has an explosive pg, I’d like to see Toronto get an injection of athleticism and explosiveness at that 1.

    • What the

      +1

    • Theswirsky

      he doesn’t create opportunities for his teammates?  You do know the guy is top 3 in assists in the league on one of the worst offensive teams in the league right? 

      And just look at your statement.  This team had Bosh and ‘decent’ (rather vague, and I think wrong considering how many net negative players this team has had over the years) role players…. thats it. 

      • mountio

        I dont know what the advanced stat for holding onto the ball until there is 5 or less on the shot clock and then passing it to your teamate who has no choice other than to shoot (in an “assist-eligible” shot) .. but I would wager a guess that Jose leads the league in this.
        Does it create assists? Absolutely. Does it actually make the team better.. sometimes yes, sometimes no.
        A good assist man is breaking down his man off the dribble, getting his teamates open looks and dunks (CP3, Rubio, Nash, Rose) .. I just dont see this in Jose (outside of the odd pick n roll lob to Amir). Tom or others – am I crazy or is there anyway to measure this?

        • Theswirsky

          Just because Jose doesn’t fit the mold of the new breed of NBA PGs hardly means he isn’t creating for his teammates.  Good passing isn’t exclusive to penetrate and kick.  It doesn’t need to be a no look, behind the back or through a guys legs pass. 

          Its the right spot at the right time to the right guys.  Don’t mistake flash for production.

          There is a reason Jose is:

          – first among starting PGs in assist % (2nd among ALL players)
          – first among ALL players in asst:TO ratio
          – 3rd in assists per game
          – 2nd in assists per 48

          Simply put you don’t do the above without being a good assist man.  Especially on one of the worst offensive teams in the league who play at one of the slowest paces in the league.

          The old myth about Jose was he was only getting assists because teammates were hitting jumpshots.  And now its because his teammates are actually phenomenal last second shooters with a hand in their face?  I mean really?

          • mountio

            phenomenal last second shooters .. not at all. But if you give even the raps players enough shots, they are bound to hit some of them.
            I dont know how to prove it statistically, but I do know that Jose keeps his dribble alive late into the shot clock a LOT and I do know that I cant recall Jose getting many guys open dunks or layups (btw – I dont give a shit about flash, no look, through the legs etc .. I do care about getting guys wide open layup or easy shots .. and I dont see Jose doing much of that)
            Maybe Im wrong ..Id love to see if there is any evidence to back up what Im seeing ..  Im just telling you what I see.

            • Theswirsky

              “But if you give even the raps players enough shots, they are bound to hit some of them”

              except they play at the 23rd slowest pace in the league, meaning they, as a team, take less shots than most of the league.  So there is no way this is due to bulk shooting.

              ” I do know that Jose keeps his dribble alive late into the shot clock ”

              Do you understand what Casey strategy is?  And yet Jose is still racking up dimes with an inefficient shooting, slow paced team.

              Your argument for why Jose is getting assists is evidence that Jose passing is actually significantly underrated even with his top notch statistical #s.

              • mountio

                perhaps you dont get what Im saying or perhaps you are just wanting to prove your point that Jose is good (which, btw .. I ackowledge hes a top half PG .. his PER – 18th for PGs seems to support the eye test here).
                Pace is a very small factor in all of this .. from the raps to the fastest pace team, a difference of 5 possessions (out of 95ish). Im not talking about bulk shooting as a whole, Im talking about passing the ball where a guy has no choice but to shoot, vs another PG who might pass the ball with 10 or 15 on the clock, allowing for another pass.
                Jose plays 32 mins a game (roughly 71% of the time) .. so lets say 70 possessions or so per game. He takes 10 shots of his own, so you are down to 60.
                If (im not saying this is true .. but in the extreme) .. he simply holds (ie dribbles) the ball until there is 5 on the clock and then passes it on the others, he would average the teams shooting % * those possessions (lets say 40% on the raps, maybe close to 50% on a good team) .. he would get between 24 and 30 assists per game.
                Obviously this is in the extreme .. but if he did it for half the possessions, it would be 12 to 15. Pace (ie the extra 5 possessions) is a rounding error vs whether or not you believe he has a tendacy to hold the ball until 5 on the clock and then pass it.
                Again .. im making this shit up on the fly in terms of how to explain it .. maybe there is a stat that tries to measure this .. maybe not. I guess the question for you is .. do you believe that Jose holds the ball late in the shot clock more than most (or the best) PGs? If yes, then maybe this discussion is worth continuing. If no, maybe we let it die ..

                • Theswirsky

                  Pace may seem small at first, but it becomes pretty significant when its viewed over a season or part of a season.  The difference between Toronto and the #1 team (Denver) is actually 6 so

                  6*33 = 198 possessions.  Thats teh equivalent of 2+ entire games for the Raps up to this point in time.

                  For the rest of what you are talking about you need to realize that in those 60 ‘other’ possessions:

                  fast breaks need to be excluded

                  possessions that end if FT attempts need to be excluded

                  Plays are run where he is not invloved other than to bring up the ball and/or where his teammates assisted on the play need to be excluded. 

                  And of those now remaining plays left you’d have to break down how many of them are passes he made, while controlling the ball for a period of time only to pass it with less than 5 secs or less on the clock.  And beyond that it should be excluse to jumpshots as I think we can both agree an ‘alley oop’ pass, pick n’ roll play or passing to a cutter would be good passing plays. 

                  Think about that for a second… does that realistically sound, after you take all the ‘don’t fit in the equation’ possessions out, like its actually goign to be a common occurence? 

                  … AND THEN you’d have to compare that to all the PGs you mentioned above (or others in the league in general) as they will at times pass it to players late in the shot clock as well for an assist.

                   

                • mountio

                  All fair points .. and I grant them to you. Im still not convinced that the # of remaining plays and the % that Jose holds the ball on dont skew the data to give him more assists … maybe one of these days Ill get bored enough to try to figure it out .. cause it seems to be the case when I watch the games ..

          • CJT

            Also, the benchmark that eveyone seems to use is Derrick Rose for the prototype PG.  Calderon carries a higher percentage in basically every statistical category.  Most would agree that Rose also has a better supporting cast as well. 

            • mountio

              I would suggest that you are looking at the wrong statistics (or looking at them the wrong way), then .. cause D Rose is WAY WAY WAY better than Jose. Whatever stats you are focusing on appear to be a clear of example of how stats can be misleading ..

              • CJT

                Higher assists, higher shooting percentage, higher 3 point percentage, higher freethrow percentage, lower turnovers, etc. etc. etc.  Is that misinterpreting? 

                • mountio

                  YES! If you draw the conclusion that Jose is a better player than D Rose (the MVP of the whole league!) from those stats, that is the definition of misinterpreting!!!
                  Just because a player is superior than another in certain statistical categories, that is not an accurate representation of the relative values of those two players.
                  If you didnt just make my point with your previous post, Im not sure what ever will ..

                • Pizzaman

                  The major difference is that when Rose wants to he can put his team on his back and carry them to a win. I think everyone can agree that Jose is not that, but there are very few players in the entire league that qualify for that accolade, and we are not getting one anytime soon. The closest thing we have is Bargnani, and maybe in a year or two Jonas or a draft pick or free agent signing, and you will need an efficient team oriented point guard to get those guys the ball in the right spots; Jose can do that now and for a few more good years until we actually find someone better. I’m not willing to settle for a point guard who’s worse as that will hinder the play of the rest of our team. If we get a Batum, or Chandler they along with Bargs and Jonas will need a point guard who is smart and keeps them involved.

                • CJT

                  My point is not that he is better, but rather he is undervalued for what he actually does.  Rose is obviously a game changer and Jose will never be that type of player.  But he is very good at what he does.

                • mountio

                  then what is the point of quoting those stats where Jose is better, yet you admit Rose is a better player? Wouldnt it make more sense to quote the stats where Rose is better than Jose and note that they are WAY more important to overall success (like the dreaded PPG!) Jose likely speaks better spanish than Rose and has longer hair too .. but unless those things point to him being a better player, Im not sure of the relevance ..? 

                • CJT

                  Roses PPG is higher because he can’t pass.  He is the first, secondm third and fourth scoring option.
                  I don’t know that that makes him a better point guard.  He is a great scorer though.

                • mountio

                  8th in the league (despite being a great scorer and as you say, passing less than, say, Jose) at 7.7 assists per game .. a little harsh to say he “cant pass”

                • What the

                  speak the word M i’m loving it

                • What the

                  now i’m sure your a fool

                • CJT

                  I see that you are contributing your usual insightful commentary to the conversation.  Keep up the good work.

                • What the

                  i’m loving it M has got you by the balls fool

      • Destro

        Assists in todays NBA is one of the most most overrated stats…home team statisticians give em out like flu shots… 

    • why

      It could easily go wrong – the odds are you will end up with a player that will have a marginal NBA career rather than a meaningful NBA career with  a 15+ draft.

  • KJ-B

    Jose is “leading this team”, to what and to where exactly?  I welcome responses……………

    • FLUXLAND

      To the Toronto Raptors All Time Statistics Hall of Fame and his personal statistical glory?

    • Valit

      to the same realm any PG would lead this team seeing the talent we have.

      • Lorenzo

        Bingoooo

  • Chuj

    good post, my 2 cents..

    trade 1 – the rockets might have agreed on that after the failed cp3-trade, but they have to like the way the team is playing now and the main reason is kyle lowry, i don´t see them making the trade.this trade would also make the lakers instant heavyweight contenders and nobody likes that..trade 2 – boston would be absymal after making that trade.. sure upgrading their frontline with gasol is good, but changing from an all-star pass first point guard to .. jerryd bayless? no way danny ainge is stupid enough to do thistrade 3 – i really like this trade from the raps and sixers perspective (maybe i give gasol to much credit, but him on the sixers would make them really scary)unfortunately i don´t believe calderon/brand is enough for the lakers to bite

  • benzo

    hoopshype rumour has 3 team trade with lakers bynum and gasol going to magic  howard turk and nelson going to lakers and a third team the toronto raptors sending jose calderon to the orlando magic

  • Destro

    I always laugh when i read people here refer to Calderon as a premier PG,if i could deal him and that contract and get anything serviceable in return,id do it in a heartbeat…I still say this 5 years later,he will never be a starter and feature player on a winning team…whats funny he has a decent stretch where he’s good NOT great on a bottom 5 team in the league and ppl here refer to it as “premiere”…smh.

  • Destro

    Its funny to read Calderons fans use ast/to ratio to credit him as a PG.I never hear that used as a reference point for any of the franchise top tier guards in the league.I never hear ppl use it to credit CP,D-Will,Rose,Westbrick…ppl refer to there playmaking ability,scoring,ability to break down defenses,play good D and take over games….I think Calderon fanboys dont realize in actuality how they are burying there hero by using that stat to accredit him…Its like you cant give him any of those other points so his AST/TO ratio is the best thing you can give him…
    I never hear any fan base or media group talk so much about ast/to ratio as rap/Calderon fans and Raps media ppl….

  • Destro

    Why has he never had a sniff of an all star game is if he’s so great ?
    “best pure PG” lol
    in 1 or 2 years ? So it takes the great guards 7-8 seasons to acquire those accolades now ?