Raptors 101, Bulls 102 – Box

Can you get any closer to winning a game without actually pulling it off? That one hurt a little bit. Yes, you want to lose as many games as possible to secure a better draft pick, blah blah blah. But, when you have the chance to beat the team with the best record in the league in their own barn, you want that win.

Still, a close loss to an elite team on the road, on the second half of a back-to-back. This would have been the type of game last year`s team would have checked out of sometime soon after the opening tip. Granted, there was no Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah was ejected before halftime, but this Bulls team has a pretty decent record without DRose. Their strength lies in the fact that they have quality at every position except the 2.

Once again, it was the defense of the Raptors that stood out. Especially one James Johnson, who was the was the best player on the floor for either team on this night. He just plays at a higher level against his former team, which is promising but disappointing at the same time. If he can play this way against the Bulls, why can`t he be a defensive gamechanger all the time? Unlike previous Bulls games, Johnson had a solid, if not spectacular offensive game, only tarnished by his burning desire to unsuccessfully deliver the deciding baskets of the game. He`s getting better, James Johnson, and if people are not as excited about his potential as they are for a DeMar DeRozan, they may be missing out. The way he blocked Carlos Boozer`s shot, that releases from pretty much behind his head, is eye-opening.

Yes, DeMar DeRozan has been on a nice scoring streak recently, but there was a fluidity to the offense that a more versatile player like Gary Forbes brings to the table that can`t be overlooked. With DeMar it feels like when he gets the ball, you get one of two results. He either tries to score if there`s an oppurtunity, or he dribbles the ball on the perimeter for a bit and then passes it away. With Forbes, he`s got a little point guard in him that every good guard should have. Let`s make this clear, Gary Forbes is not the talent DeMar DeRozan is. But, his style helps players around him better, and DeRozan right now doesn`t. Without DeRozan dominating the ball, you saw Forbes and Johnson hook up with the bigs for easy buckets. It was nice to see Johnson feed Ed Davis on the break for a powerful dunk. You think Demar, Jerryd Bayless or the departed Leandro Barbosa would have made that pass?

When Jose Calderon looks for his offense, this team immediately becomes a dangerous one. It`s just baffling why he can`t do this more consistently. Perhaps after years of complacency, old habits die hard. These kind of games seem to come against better teams where the spotlight shines brighter. He almost sabotaged Linsanity at it`s peak with a great performance against Knicks. His highest scoring game this year was 30 against the Lakers. There`s no reason why he can`t dominate the majority of the league that isn`t as good as these teams. Selfishness is bad, except when you`re a guy who`s one of the best shooters in the league on a team that struggles on offense.

The only worry about the way this team is overachieving is that it may be a product of the coach`s intensity, and as we know, guys like this can have positive short-term impact but eventually lose the room. Dwane Casey doesn`t strike me as that guy, but you never know. By the time this team is decent, maybe even as early as next year, you hope that player`s continue to give that same effort and respect for their coach. More talent with this current compete level will turn these kind of games into convincing victories.

  • Nilanka15

    “Let`s make this clear, Gary Forbes is not the talent DeMar DeRozan is.”

    I fail to see the “talent” in DeRozan. Everyone keeps talking about his potential, but where is the talent?

    Is it his quickness? No.
    Is it his agility? No.
    Is it his defence? No.
    Is it his jumper? No.
    Is it his rebounding? No.
    Is it his strength? No.
    Is it his ball handling? No.
    Is it his passing? No.

    • Thomas

      How does one get into the NBA, the league with the most talented players in the world, without any talent?

      • Theswirsky

        brian colangelo

        • Micheal Tullouch

          Amir ,Dang and  Demar  were all drafted by BC , so i’m thinking mybe with time…

          • Micheal Tullouch

            *STAT,DEMAR AND DENG* drafted by BC

          • Cdhall

            I thought Amir was drafted by Detroit?

            • Theswirsky

              and Deng was drafted on behalf of Chicago

    • Destro

      You’re wrong on the agility cuz…He also has league wide top 5 athleticism,which will keep him in the league even if he never improves….I would agree with some of your points,but the jumper has improved ALOT…

      • Theswirsky

        Demar’s shooting % from all ranges other than 3 is actually worse than last year.

        • Destro

          Maybe cuz he is averging more shots but his shot has improved despite the numbers….He can make those corner jumpers that he couldnt last year…and that elbow jumper is consistent,sometimes the numbers DO lie….

          • Theswirsky

            that is Bargnani logic

            if you are shooting a worse % in nearly every category you are shooting worse. 

            as for Demar ‘averaging’ more shots –

            10/11
            Total – 14.1 shots
            3-9 ft – 2 attempts per game(47%)
            10-15 ft – 2 attempts per game(46.6%)
            16-23 ft – 5.1 attempts per game (40%)

            11/12
            Total – 14. 3
            3-9 ft – 1.6 attempts per game (47.4%)
            10-15 ft – 1.8 attempts per game (41.2%)
            16-23 ft – 5.3 attempts per game (32%)

            those numbers aren’t lieing

            • Destro

              yes they are you and so are you,boxscore whore….he has added range on his shot….I have seen it by watching the games…he has had bad shooting nights but he has added shots to his arsenal he didnt have last year…..you might knwo that if you watched a game and not boxscores…

              • Theswirsky

                Factual information is a bitch isn’t it.

                • Destro

                  Nah…if you didnt have an agenda with this shit you’d understand what i said…

            • Micheal Tullouch

              try using the old Nilanka eye test

              • Theswirsky

                absolutely nothing wrong with an ‘eye test’. 

                But when the numbers tell you something completely different then you think you saw, you have to consider either how accurate your eye test is, what you missed along the way, or what you might have forgetten (or remembered incorrectly).

                see above for an example

                • Destro

                  exaggerate much ? Marginal difference…numbers aside..his jumpshot has improved

                • Theswirsky

                  yes when you put numbers aside ofcourse it has.

                • Juicy

                  Numbers aside, the Raptors are the best team in the NBA.

                  Don’t try to prove me wrong, I’ve done an eye test.

                • Raps4Ever

                  Yet you don’t “miss anything along the way” with your factual stat whoring, hey? I expect you’ll do the usual and dismiss other factors as excuses, but comparing stats from different years, without paying attention to the multitude of other factors that can affect them, is for losers. Among other many factors that you just might try to consider:
                  1. He’s playing in entirely different schemes/systems at both ends, from last year to this. Not saying it’s an excuse for bad performances, but it’s a factor, as is the different defensive attention he’s getting, when you start using your “factual stats”.
                  2. This insane compressed season is producing strange results and stats all over the league, including many prominent players’ jump shooting percentages dropping since last year. Among them:
                  Kobe, D-Rose, Dirk, Melo, Joe Johnson, Bosh, Granger, K-love, R-Gay, T-Parker, K-Martin. Based on your factual information, are all these players regressing?

                  I’m certainly not one to agree with Destro on these boards, but he’s sure got you pegged as a stat whore.

                • Raps4Ever

                  PS. Since you put so much stock in stats, and this being recognized as a development year with new coach/system, you may also not want to miss that in DD’s first 29 games, his FG% was .386, while in his last 19 games, it was .465.

                • sleepz

                  Playing in a different system can definitely affect stats/performance

              • Nilanka15

                Listen newbie, don’t pretend like you know me.  The eye test is only half the equation.  You can’t ignore statistical trends/analytics.

      • Nilanka15

        There’s a big difference between “improvement” and “talent”.

      • voy

        top 5 althleticism is prob a stretch with guys like wade, howard, lebron, westbrook, rose, ellis, griffin, wall in the league

        • Destro

          Its not a stretch,he’s in that category with those guys…

          • Nilanka15

            Definitely not.  He’s not even the most athletic player on the team.  I would put JJ ahead of him (maybe even Amir).

            DeRozan can dunk when nobody else is around him.  That’s where his “athleticism” starts and ends.

            • Destro

              HA HA umm neither is remotelt close to being as athletic as DeRozan…stop it !
              Dunking in traffic has nothing to do with athleticism…DD is up there in top tier of NBA athletes…and its been re iterated by pro scouts…

              His vertical,his stand still bounce and ability to go up consecutively,plus ability to maneuver in air and change his motion/body is how you judge athleticism all things he can do and has done….

              lol @ Amir

              • Nilanka15

                All you’ve mentioned is jumping ability. 

                There’s a lot more to being an athlete than jumping.  He’s got incredibly slow foot-speed, no lateral quickness (can’t change direction quickly), and has slow reflexes.

                When was the last time you saw DeRozan sprint?  His full speed is a moderaly-paced jog for most athletes.

                • Destro

                  I mentioned alot more than jumping friend…His reflexes are actually not slow,which is why he can grab passes behind him off the glass and finish them…Alot of the points made are not about his athleticism but more bad habits and work ethic related…HIs foot speed is fine but he appears slow because he cant dribble and has no ball handling skills or quick first step…Hes an excpetional athlete with average basketball skills…

              • Nilanka15

                Seriously dude, you’re bordering on fanboy-ism here.

                • Destro

                  Nah im an unbiased fan,i shit on DeRozan everywhere on this board,im the complete opposite of a fanboy… dont pretend DD is more than what he is unlike bargnani stans…

                • Are you Serious Nalinka?

                  Hahaha….come on now…i agree with Destro….Demar is clearly the best athelete on the raptors…..Nalinka is clearly an IDIOT…. hahahahaha…..stupidest thing i heard all day!!….yes demar struggles with his handles….but he’s the best athelete on the Raptors

            • voy

              not even worth the argument here.  unless you are including 50% of the league, dd doesn’t belong in the same category with the above mentioned.  dd cant even dribble, how he is an elite athlete, let alone top 5 is beyond me.

              • Destro

                His inability to dribble has ZERO to do with his athleticism…If you equate his ball handling too athleticism then your missing the argument before you start it…

                • Are you serious???

                  +1    Destro why do you try to convince these fools?? Amir and JJ over Demar?? Are you FN kidding me??  I never understood why these euro fan boys hate on demar soooo much….makes no sense…..he’s getting better and only 22!

              • Destro

                stupid….his ball handling skills suck which is why he has no steps…i didnt say his baksetball skills were elite,i said his athleticism was and if you knew what athleticism was you’d get it….

                • voy

                  co-ordinating your movements so you can dribble has nothing to do with althleticism? 

                • Destro

                  The problem is with his ball handling skills and less about his movement….

                • Nilanka15

                  Hand-eye coordination is a very important aspect of athleticism, which is where ball-handling comes in.

                • Destro

                  so hand eye co-orindation is now athleticism? please just stop…

                • Nilanka15

                  Vince Carter was a top-5 athlete.  DeRozan is a top-50 athlete.

                • Raps4Ever

                  You’re desperation to not lose an argument digs you deeper again, and again. You were already in a losing battle in regards to arguing about dribbling being about athleticism, but bringing hand-eye into the dribbling argument is….. well, let’s say if one needs his eyes on the dribble, instead of everywhere else on the court, he’s in trouble.

                • Nilanka15

                  He can’t dribble with his head down.  How is he supposed to dribble with his head up?

                  And even if you ignore the hand-eye element, how does dribbling not involve athletic ability? 

                  Crossovers, through the legs, behind the back, no athleticism required?  Sure, if you say so…

                  Why am I even responding to you?  I told myself I’d ignore your condescending, schizophrenic, know-it-all, ass.

                • Raps4Ever

                  Aww, you hurt my feelings with that name calling, but:

                  “How is he supposed to dribble with his head up?”

                  OMG, have you ever played the game? Do you actually watch games? Watch what happens when guys dribble with their head down and not paying attention to the other 9 guys on the court. Dude, most of the time, it isn’t good.

                • Nilanka15

                  Way to misunderstand my post.  Of course I know dribble with one’s head up is a fundamental aspect of basketball.  But what I was saying is that DeRozan can’t even dribble with his head down, let alone he head up.  This is out best aathlete?

              • R you serious?

                He is not top 5….you are right….not even close…but he’s the best athlete on the raptors….hands down…check out his dunks

                • Nilanka15

                  Yeah his dunks are amazing….all 5 times he’s dunked this year.  Same argument as Destro….somehow you seem to confuse jumping with athleticism.

                • Destro

                  WTF just stop….jumping has alot to do with athleticism…

                • Nilanka15

                  You guys are all missing the point.  Jumping is simply one aspect of athleticism, not ALL of it.

                  DeRozan jumps well, but that’s it.  He’s not a top-5 athlete when it comes to quickness, strength, and agility.  Not even close.

          • Lorenzo

            HAHA!

  • The Fox

    I agree…I fail to see this so called talent DeRozan has.  He’s good off the bench maybe, but no way a starter in this league.  He has been playing better of late though.  But I don’t think his ceiling is very high…..

    • Destro

      How long have you been following basketball,if you say longer than a week you’re clearly lying….

  • c_bcm

    ” Granted, there was no Derrick Rose and Joakim Noah was ejected before halftime,”

    Bang on. A good litmus-test for an emerging team to go by is capitalizing when opponents are missing their top 2 players. This should not have been close, if the Raps were any good.

    …and another eternal optimist bites the dust.

    • Puffer


      This should not have been close, if the Raps were any good.” Of course, that is the point. the Raptors aren’t really that good. The team has holes at virtually every position, either with the starters or off the bench. Kudos to the Raps for doing as well as they have and particularly against good teams. Given an injection of at least two quality starters next year, and one solid reserve, they will be a different team. 

    • Raps4Ever

      Going into the game, their record without Rose this year was 11-4, a winning % good enough to still be top 3 in the league, while they were 4-1 in the precious 5 games, including beating Miami, Orlando, Philly. You saying Noah has been winning all these games for them, including those last 4 wins with his 12 pt, 8 RB avg?

      Are you saying that the Bulls having the great Noah for only a half, the Raps should have blown them out? Really? LeBron/Wade/Bosh and Dwight must be embarrassed the couldn’t overcome the Great One playing the whole game.

      Oh well, bad timing, especially considering the 4th game in 5 days, with only 2 guards in the line-up, and a bit of a fumbling way to do it, but there’s always value in  illuminating the masses with the insightful news that the Raps aren’t very good.

      “eternal optimist”? sarcasm, right?

      • sleepz

         A loss is a loss no matter how much you try and dress it up.

        If it’s his opinion we should have won, so be it.

        • Raps4Ever

          “A loss is a loss’? I think I knew that already, but it never hurts to be reminded. It’s his opinion we should have won it? Though that’s quite a simplification of the opinion he offered, I’m cool with people expressing their opinions on a public board. That’s what we’re all doing here, right?

          However, when doing so, one invites alternate opinions, and even objections to the opinion expressed, which is what the “Reply” button both you I used is for. Agreed? I responded with my reasoning in expressing my opinion that it’s silly to suggest it “should not have been close”, specifically focusing on the reasons he gave.

          I was inclined to do so, and in the manner I did, because this is a  fan site, and the Raps did a hell of a job battling the top team in the league last night and warrant better than that, imo.

          Now, what are you attempting to contribute to this conversation with “so be it”?

          • sleepz

            I was attempting to ‘reply’ to your comment.

            If you were so cool with others expressing alternate opinions you would never suggest that other posters take their opinions elsewhere when they conflict with yours.

            I don’t always agree with your views but do respect them and don’t categorize you based on your views no matter how BC- homerish or plain wack I might think them to be.

            This is indeed a fan site and whether as a fan you are the optimist or pessimist it’s all good.

            • Raps4Ever

              I would never expect everyone on here to agree with my views, or go elsewhere. Geez, that would make for a near useless place, for we don’t learn and grow if we just hang out with those that agree with us.
              I’m not one to suggest people go elsewhere very often, nor did I in the case. I will admit to suggesting it to people who seem to rarely, if ever, have a good word to say about this team, and who harp on the same negatives day after day, week after week and seem to be in misery as a “fan” of this team. That hardly seems a fun or healthy choice of entertainment, so I do sometimes suggest that there are alternatives, unless being constantly unhappy and incessantly sharing that with others, is what turns their crank.
              As you say, so be it.

              • sleepz

                But thats the point of being a fan. While some might focus on the positives other dwell on the negatives. The common trait however is both parties want to see a good team.

    • cesco

       You prefer to ignore s few things : they were in a btb game and had to travel overnight , they were short handed missing DD and Jerryd and the Bulls were better off without Noah as it was a mismatch against Andrea and he preferred to quit via ejection and he certainly is not the second best player the Bulls have , what a loser .

      • Theswirsky

        yes Noah vs Andrea is a mismatch, but I think you got it backwards.

        • cesco

           You are a big ignoramous , Noah against Andrea is a pylon a la Reggie , he did not wanted to be humiliated time and time again and he quit . Watch the game before commenting .

          • sleepz

             No one quit to avoid covering Andrea Bargnani. I watched the game and I am commenting.

            • Pat

              Lol, are you theswirsky? Because you just answered for him using a different name. Hmm…

              • Theswirsky

                nope we are quite different

              • Micheal Tullouch

                no just a fan who watched the game

              • sleepz

                I responded to a comment I considered to be foolish and lacking a foundation of logic. Nothing more.

          • Destro

            You’re suggesting Noah quit rather than cover Andrea Bargnani ? BWAHAHAHAHAHA…fanboys logic leaping tall buildings in a single bound !!

          • WOWZERS

            i think your an idiot!  I would take noah over andrea any day….hahahaha….not even close….defense wins championships…..noah has two championships in  college…andrea is useless if he cant hit shots….

      • Micheal Tullouch

        now we were missing  a ball hog/black hole and aguy with no shot,no bb IQ, no handles and on and on yet you’re talking about missing them, the allstar need to stepup  cause you know what he can do with the 10 shots that DEMAR waste trying to pad his stat.

        • Destro

          Bargnani is THEE definition of a stat padder…Shall we go back to last season ?
          Where he averaged 21 PPG shooting low 40%(terrible efficiency for a big man with his supposed skillset) on a 22 win team….

          Thats stat padding 101 friend…Try to get it right next time…

          • cesco

             His efficiency is lower than most big men because he plays further away from the basket than most big ( harder to score , less rebounds ) . Playing with the likes of Reggie , JJ ( last year JJ ) and Jose ( who is a facilitator ) you have no choice but to take a lot of shots .

            • Destro

              False and False…His inefficieny means he doesnt take advantage of those matchups (HE DOESNT) The rest of that post is pure fanboy protection and bullshit…so effectively you cannot blame HIM for anything he doesnt do cuz he chooses to be an inefficient oaf sitting on the 3 line….L

            • Destro

              Bargnani myth #46
              (Reggie Evans and CB stole his rebounds)
              NO he rebounds less cuz he’s a lazy ass,with no desire to rebound or outwork dudes on either end for them…

          • Raps4Ever

            You’re incredible. One minute you call someone else a stat whore. The next minute, you follow suit.

            • Destro

              Different context…IM not microanalyzing useless stats… 

  • Brian Gerstein

    I agree with both The Fox and Nilanka.  DeMar has shown he can get his, but he reminds me in a different way but with the same results we had with Bosh.  His game has some nice elements to it, but it is more suited to coming off the bench and not having starters minutes. 

    In fact, when the day comes that we can use him in that type of role will show we have the talent and depth to have turned the corner and not relied on average talent who knows how to get his. 

    His ceiling is pretty much now as far as I can tell.  He is a soft but athletic player, who has yet to improve his handle enough where he can easily break down his opponent one on one, and his vision on the court is quite limited.

    With our high draft pick he very well may be traded or put in a reserve role, which I imagine he will not accept, and would ask for a trade regardless.   

    • Micheal Tullouch

      If all the players we now have should come off the bench because they are bench players with lots of flawes we are fu#k and the guy putting this team should be fired for trying to trick the fans with these bench players

    • Destro

      How does bargnani not remind you of Boshs results tho ? bargnani by most ppl accounts is the teams best player right ? So why do you point to Demar and NOT Andrea ? When it was Bosh who was the best player on a losing team as well ?

      • Brian Gerstein

        The reason why I see Bargnani as soon as next year when he is fully healthy, as I don’t think he has fully recovered from his high ankle sprain, even though he is playing, will be incredibly productive for is with our hopefully high draft pick and Jonas in the equation.  He will get tons of space to operate and lots of open looks.  The 13 game stretch at the beginning of the year is indicative of what we will hopefully see, and regardless, his trade value has plummetted since then, so we need to get him going again in order to extract maximum trade value, should Andrea not fit into our roster next year.

        Yes, Andrea for the most part has been an enigma, but under Casey’s system he has shown the capability to round out his game.  Given his size and tools he has more to offer than DeMar does.  Bargnani showed that he is capable of playing responsible D, switch properly in Casey’s system, grab enough boards, and still be our leading scorer, granted, this was in the 13 game stretch he was healthy, but that is all I have to hang my hat on, as what other options do we really have.

        Bargnani when he plays like that is a match-up in hell for the opposition, as he was taking it hard to the rim as well during that stretch.  DeMar, although on a recent hot stretch, does not have the ability to become an All Star, something that I can see Andrea doing in the right system with the right talent playing with him.

        • Destro

          You sir clearly have bought first row wolf tickets….Your applauding a 13 game stretch to be indicative of a seasons body of work but CHOSE to gloss over last years entire season where the team won 22 games and he was nowhere near an all star at similar numbers over a much larger sample thus a more true depiction of his work…Most of your post is just as backwards…when has he shown responsible D ? When ? in 6 years the man still does not know when to rotate and help…its embarrasing that he STILL over commits too much on traps leaving his man open….and his size and tools are real overstated given he doesnt use them often enough…If anything id say his tools have shown to be inefficient as he tends to be one of the lowest % shooting big men in the league…as i stated in another post 21 points on low 40% with 5 rebounds is not taking advantage of said “tools”… 

        • Destro

          I laughed at this post again…PPL choose to look hard at 13 games but will gloss over the past 5 seasons lolol…bargnani myth #37 he is a match up hell for the opposition…For all this talk of match up hells it sure hasnt lead to any massive games scoring wise,game winners,winning streaks,playoff apps or any accolades…I honestly think he could create match up problems if he wasnt such a lazy sob sometimes…i think the way he gets complacent on chucking those match up myths really never get exploited to the extent ppl type it out…

  • Akash_singh

    the ignorant americans referred to derozan as our best player, and it confounded them that we were doing so well without him……..derozan stat padding skills are coming along much more nicely than his game….

    • Lorenzo

       Good trade bait…

    • cesco

       Next year with Jonas ,  Andrea and Jose they are going to discover there is an euro team ( that is what they consider the Raps to be right now ) that can win big in the NBA .

      • Akash_singh

        I just want to see them win man, I don’t care what their skin color is.

        • cesco

          I agree but it will be fun when you will read or hear the americans praising BC for building a winning ‘european team’ (obviously only with 4-5 europeans but 3 of these being starters, assuming JV pan out) .

          • Micheal Tullouch

            yes, like last night we had three US players in the final sec. of reg. fighting for rebound against 5 Bulls players and guess where our two best players were,they were standing out by the three point line watching 8 guys fight for the ball ,hell we could have used a 7fter in there go watch the tape.

          • sleepz

             You won’t be hearing that anytime soon.

          • guest1

            I think we kind of got a preview of that in the last Olympics…US was unbeaten.  You really think that BC is going to put together a Euro team that beats the Heat…lol

            • Micheal Tullouch

              Raptors would be on sport center every fn night they played 

            • Destro

              Raptors euro squad wont make the playoffs nevermind the Heat…Ppl here actually believe Valunciunas mixed with Bargs and Calderon is a winning team is laughable…Calderon and bargs will never be featured starters on a winning NBA team….take that to the bank !

          • Destro

            Raps wont be a winning team with that nucleus tho,thats what you fail to understand…

      • Destro

        You’re going to be in for quite a disappointment next year and i blame you being naive to a fault friend….What has Jose and AB done to this point to make you think they can lead a winning team ? and to that you add a rookie euro big man and you think suddenly this a playoff team…Thats nothing short of high level gullibility and to be honest that kind of illogical view is why this teams fan base comes off as so undeducated and bummy… 

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      The Raptors don’t have a best player….

    • Micheal Tullouch

      Does the internet porn know that you we cheating on it during the RAPS/NIX game the other night

    • Micheal Tullouch

      We need Nilanka to educate those fools

    • Micheal Tullouch

      but, but he’s got noooo talent

  • Oxtail

    demar who?

    we played a million times better without him.

    demar=one dimensional….and not even consistent at his one dimension.

    • Destro

      0-1

    • Micheal Tullouch

      0 and 1 without the “no tallent” one .lol

      • Destro

        You seem to be quite lost on what talent is….

  • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

    Will Bargnani aka Small Nuts ever hit a game winner!!!lmfao

    • Raps4Ever

      Still using this little chant of your, aye. You went into hiding the last time I posted this, but perhaps your brilliance will show through this time.

      Your chant implies AB hasn’t ever hit a clutch shot at the end of a game. The TEAM has to be close at the end for that opportunity to even present itself, but some (there may be more, but I don’t need much to refute your “never”) clutch AB examples:

      Mar 11, 2007— vs Sonics, down 2, hits a 3, and 1, with 9 seconds left

      Jan 12, 2009— vs Celtics, hits game tieing 3 with 1 second left

      Dec 30, 2009—- vs Charlotte, technically the “clinching shot”, but effectively the game winning shot

      Dec 8, 2010— vs NY, with 41 pts in game, hits game tieing 3 pointer with 28 seconds left. Felton hits one for win with 2 seconds left, but Bargs still hit clutch shot.

      It must be a sad life you have, when you can’t even win at being an idiot.

      • Donny

        You’ve shown him a list of these examples before, plus a few more. I remember him copping-out with some sad statement after he couldn’t back up his words. Nothing new here though, because he does the same thing with all facts that disprove his bs. 

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        Nice try, it’s same bullchit as you posted before…lmfao

        Amir hit a game winner at OKC- that’s a game winning shot….

      • Buschfire

        Ok, but has he ever made a last second game winning buzzer beater?

        • Raps4Ever

          What would it prove?

          Courtesy of 82games.com, game winners During 3
          seasons, including 2 playoffs, from 2003-2006:

          Shaq-2, PJ Brown-4….
          PJ twice the player Shaq was?

          Ricky Davis-6, Damon Jones-5, Steve Nash-1…
          does this say those two were better players or shooters than Nash? Not by a 100 country miles.

          C’mon, it’s nothing but a meaningless, petty little chant when it’s repeated over and over.
           

          • Destro

            No but it says what i have re-iterated for years,Nash is not a clutch performer and isnt a winner…

          • Micheal Tullouch

            PLEASE ANSWER THE QUESTION

            • Raps4Ever

              If you can explain the relevance of the question, I’ll answer it in that context. As I’ve tried to point out, an isolated fact or stat can be quite misleading, or even meaningless.

      • Destro

        but has he ever hit a GW tho ?
        At least the small nuts argument has merit,because he never moves when he takes GW shot attempts…

    • cesco

      Small Nuts is the best player on the team . You are a mental dwarf whom we must suffer daily on this site .

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        What does that say about this team that BC has put together then if Bargnani aka Half Ass aka Lazy Mofo’er aka Pasta! aka No Star is the best player with his inconsistent self…lmfao

        2 rebounds a Q….lol 19 ppg 5 rpg

        ABargnani is an  all star…..in BC’s dreams….

        • cesco

           Andrea window to be an all star is not closed yet and next year team , assuming they win more games than they lose could be an opportunity with JV for ROY , Casey for COY , BC for EOY and of course Andrea an all star , we will see .

          • Destro

            Stupid argument….as long as you play in the league your window is always open to be an all star…BUT BUT
            As long as bargs is a soft defender and doesnt rebound,he’ll never get recognition from other coaches…whether the team wins or not…. 

      • Destro

        best player on a bottom 5 team is not saying anything….

    • Vern

      You’d know a thing or two about small nuts…or make that no nuts.

  • LeeZ

    Anyone see Boozer summon all of his 270 lbs of muscle and just freaking RAM Forbes in the back with both hands, propelling him about 20 feet away from the hoop in one fell swoop, leaving Deng free to rebound his miss and put back the game winner? With three (count ’em, THREE) sets of referee eyes on the area under the basket, are you telling me that none of them saw that BLATANT foul?

    • Bendit

      Calling a foul on a player away from the ball in Chicago against the Bulls in overtime on a putback shot would have injurious to the health of the referees. In the nba that is a non foul which we have seen a thousand times….except of course if it were the Raps making the same play in TO. Just reality we have to deal with. The only way we win is if Bargs made is last secs shots or possibly Forbes his foul shots for outright indisputable points.

  • Tomsawyer

    Watch a Mavericks game. The whole scheme of the game is exactly like the Raptors game plan. But the Mavs have played this scheme for years and have won a championship and the Raptors with bargs have played it less then twenty. This scheme is a proven winner and the coach is a proven winner. Young teams need to learn to win, and Bargs aka Dirk will lead this team to  many game winning shots.

        All evidence shows that we are headed for a very bright future, these are not the leafs, there is a plan here and I for one am feeling more positive everytime Bargs suits up and leads this team to be a very successful franchise.   

  • Arsenalist

    The refereeing down the stretch was brutal.  I realize James Johnson is a nobody in the league and doesn’t deserve calls, but man, if Watson can get that call against Amir, JJ has to get the call on the play after.  

  • 511

    Nicely word – fluidity – to describe what Gary Forbes has brought to the offense. I’m liking what I see there. Also, having noticed for a while now how JJ likes to hang on to the ball just that bit more than might be good for the team (sometimes a lot more, although I think he’s getting better at looking for teammates, lately), I couldn’t not notice how determined he seemed to do it himself (at times) last night and I was shaking my head … but only a bit. My thinking is, it’s better to have a guy who really wants it and has SOME ability (that can grow) to get it done – and that is also smart enough to learn how to better utilize his teammates over time – than it is to have a guy who doesn’t have enough of that going on at all. I’m glad JJ’s on this team. 

    Missed shots and whatnot aside — which is going to happen — I’m encouraged by what looks like the early sprouts of what is to come. That includes DeMar DeRozan’s play lately (if he keeps doing what he’s been doing like he did against the Knicks, especially) and also those occasional fine moments we’re seeing from Ed Davis. Get Bayless back doing his chippy-edge thing while keeping his shot warm (at least) and then get Bargnani out of the funk that he seems to be rounding out of and … this team’s not half-bad. Re Bargs: When he was first out and then came back, he picked up where he left off right away. This time, during the second and much longer absence, the team had grown on its own without him so it’s probably not all that surprising that it’s taking him a lot more time to re-gel with the rest of the team and the overall flow. He’ll be fine and back to where he was or close to it, soon enough. I think, anyway. 

    The challenge will be how to keep it all going in the direction it’s moving (the way it has the last couple games) and still be where we need to be at the end to get that top five pick. Hopefully the schedule/other teams – and Casey’s expertise/whatever else – will take care of that on its own. It’s a bitch when you’re damned if you do and damned if you don’t. Isn’t it? 

    • 511

      ‘Nicely word’? Meant ‘nice word’. 

  • Daniel

    I hate losing, either under tanking banner or re-building marketing gig. All I care is winning. The only time tanking made sense was when you had players like Duncan, LeBron, Howard or Durant in the draft. Are we tanking for Anthony Davis, Andre Drummond or Michael Gilchrist? Really? To make any plans based on the lottery of draft is foolishness.
    For every Oklahoma example there are the likes of Clippers, Minnesota, Wizards, Warriors, Kings counter-examples. The most realistic moderately successful rebuilding model through the draft are the Atlanta, Bulls (until the sheer luck of getting Rose drafted #1 with the 9th worst record) and Indiana: a slow-slog improvement year after year with the potential 2nd round exit threshold. It’s not bad but is it worth 10 years of bad basketball?
    We’ve been in the lottery 4 years and we have nothing to show for it (Val is an unknown entity in NBA): all our young players under 25 yrs old are projected to be average at best (I personally believe they are below average however allowance for coaching and work ethic has to be made).  The way I see it is that there are no franchise players in the draft therefore the only real contending model (historically speaking as nobody can predict the future) is Detroit: a bunch of marginal All-Star players with complimentary skillsets, PER over 15 and great team defense. This is my vision for this team and  I evaluate everything through this prism. Thus I believe we currently have only 2 starters fitting this mold: Jose and Andrea (both under Casey or Casey-like coaching). I’d add 2 players coming off the bench: Amir and James Johnson (even though he drives me crazy with his decision-making, he is a potential game-changer defensively). Forbes and Gray still need more evaluation under this model. The rest have had enough time to prove they don’t belong in a successful program and hence they are expendable through trades or otherwise.
    Again, the future may bring something unexpected in the make-up of a successful contending team. Even though it is improbable it is not impossible. Historically a champion had either at least one best 50-player ever or what I described as Detroit model. My fear is that Colangelo sees a basketball team as a business exercise which proved to be a catastrophe so far. He should lay-out the plan to the fanbase so we can judge it by its internal merits and then by its execution. This way the fanbase will also grow more mature and it will have clear standards to evaluate the individual as well as the team progress. 

    • D32858

      If you are looking at PER, Bayless has a higher PER than Jose, actually the highest on the team.  Also, there are other models for rebuilding through the draft.  That is actually what Portland did when they got Roy and Aldridge.  For a while there Portland was playing great ball.  You can’t account for injuries.  The problem that I see is with the team right now is with the Franchise player, they don’t have one.  The next problem is Canada and the taxes as far as attracting one goes.  IT WILL ALWAYS BE HARDER TO GET ELITE PLAYERS TO COME TO CANADA TO PLAY. I believe the maxium Canadian tax rate is around 46%, the max US is about 36%.  A top tier player is going to give up about 10% of their income to play in Canada because they will be at the max tax rate.  Do you really think they are going to be anxious to do that?  I don’ tknow if Coangelo sees the team as a buisness exercise but as someone with an acccounting background, I know I would not be anxious to give up 10% of my income when I know that I have a very limited career timeline…would you?  That is why this team will have to build just the way Coangelo is doing it and hope that players like it enough to stay around.

      • guest

        Further example, even if Bosh did not get paid one penny more moving to the Heat, he would have seen a substantial increase in what he was making because not only did he lower his federal tax base but he moved to a US state that does not have state income taxes.  So when people say we should just sign Howard or D Will, easier said than  done.

        • mountio

          You are right about taxes in states with no state income tax (like Texas and Florida), but highest marginal rate in New York and California are very similar to that in Canada. Note that the Knicks and Lakers dont have any trouble attracting free agents. So – taxes are part of the equation .. I agree, but certainly not all of it.
          The biggest issue that is most Americans percieve Canada as the great white north with funny money and no ESPN. Its an irgnorant view .. but its the fact. Thats why we are playing against a stacked deck. The taxes dont help .. but they arent the #1 factor (especially considering some of the top free agent destiniations have basically no tax differential with Canada)

          • d32858

            The Knicks and the Lakers are the two exceptions but they attract for different reasons…LA the connection to Hollywood creates opportunity that you will not find in Toronto and both places provide players with endorsement opportunities to earn that money back and then some. Lastly both places are historic franchises, that you can’t compare to the Raptors.  I have heard so many players talk about how they dreamed of playing in MSG, or the Staples Center, I can’t say the same for Toronto. I honestly don’t think it is a misperception of the city becasue I have heard players say, they love the city, Brandon Jennings most recently.  So outside of New York or and Los Angeles, if I am offered a 10 million a year contract why woulfd I chose Toronto and give up a $1 million to play there?  Let’s see if DWill leaves New Jersey for Dallas…no state taxes and it is his home town.

            Bottom line at the end of the day the taxes are a big disadvantage.

          • Theswirsky

            bigger markets = bigger exposure = bigger endorsement deals

            • mountio

              agreed, but less taxes, which was my point ..

              • Theswirsky

                oh I don’t doubt taxes play an influence.  As does weather and winning and legacy.

                None of those bode well for Toronto.

                But I agree taxes aren’t, generally, the #1 reason.

            • Destro

              The bigger market argument doesnt apply to Toronto tho,that applies to US markets….

    • Micheal Tullouch

      you are fucking sick in the head just like nilanka

      • Nilanka15

        Bahahahahaha. I have no idea why you’re crying…

        • Micheal Tullouch

          fool , the next time that you’re at the ACC ask BRYAN  why he drafted a player with none of the skills that you have mension and then put him in the starting lineup from day 1

          • Nilanka15

            Seriously, are you stupid or something?  What has DeRozan done to warrant the starting gig?

            The “Colangelo did it, so it must be right” reasoning is arguably the dumbest logic ever spewed on this site.

            • Micheal Tullouch

              ask BC or DC that question the next time you see them

              • Nilanka15

                Yeah I’ll make sure to do that [rolling eyes].

                I’ll even make sure to ask them about Rasual Butler, and I won’t be surprised when I’m told “he was a great addition to the team”.

                The difference between you and me?  You’ll actually believe those words.

                • Destro

                  Can i assume you are doing an interview with BC for RR ? If so can i send you a list of questions to ask him as well ?

                • Nilanka15

                  lol, no…I’m not doing an interview with BC.  That was simply Michael’s lame attempt at sarcasm.

            • Micheal Tullouch

              what is wrong with BC ?first it was Moon and now Demar we really should get rid of that guy.lol

              • Nilanka15

                I’m indifferent regarding Colangelo.  I don’t love him or hate him.  He’s done good things and bad things, but as of right now, I think it would be wise to let him finish what he started last season (whether last season was intentional or not).

                I don’t see anyone else being able to replace Colangelo in the next 12-18 months and being able to fix anything.

                If the Raptors fail to compete for the 8th seed next year, then it’s time to give Colangelo his walking papers.

                But just because he drafted DeRozan, that doesn’t make DeRozan good (which is what you’re arguing).

    • CJT

      Can you post some links to the projections you are speaking about?  I am not sure where you are getting your information.  Hopefully there are examples that do not originate with bloggers or so called “fans” of the team.

      • Daniel

        Go to 82games.com and enter under comparison players the variables defining our players.

  • Truthkiller

    What the effing bloodclot is up with the refs they missed timeouts, foul calls, they served that game on a silver platter to the Bulls.

    Why can’t NBA officiating be the same as NCAA officiating. #realtalks