This is a picture of Steve Nash in Toronto from a few weeks back.

UPDATE: Nash offer made – $36/3yr.

Dwight Howard is the player I dislike the most, and I want nothing more (other than motorboating Kelly Brook) than to see him be traded to the Nets, only for his private jet to Brooklyn be hijacked to Shutter Island.

Free agency has officially started and there’s a report that the Raptors are interested in Batum, who is leaning towards Minny (as they’re offering him $$$$$$$).

Portland Trail Blazers restricted free agent forward, Nicolas Batum, has been contacted by the Minnesota Timberwolves and what is being called a “serious offer,” has been made and discussed and the two sides will meet in Minnesota later today to deliberate on it further, according to a source very close to the situation.

The detailed figures that are being mulled over is a four-year, $45-50 million deal. The New Orleans Hornets and Toronto Raptors have also reached out to Batum’s agent, Bouna Ndiaye, and meetings with those teams have been agreed on and will be scheduled shortly after the Minnesota trip, a separate source said.

Continuing on Nash, you probably know the situation and John Hollinger puts it well:

“If Toronto uses the amnesty rights on Jose Calderon, it can offer Nash a max contract; it’s the one team that probably would be most inclined to both overpay and give him a third guaranteed year. Additionally, Toronto could have enough leftover cap room to sign a fairly decent wingman for midlevel-ish money after giving Nash a three-year deal worth $45 million to $50 million.”

Amnestying Calderon no makey sensey to me. If we’re only doing it so that we can offer Nash a big contract, I don’t feel right about it. Calderon’s contract is an asset (it’s expiring at $10M) and there will be teams licking their chops at getting him on the cheap. If they do amnesty him, it’s going to make the decision to not trade him during the season for picks/cash/whatever seem really silly, because we would essentially lose him for nothing and just transfer his cap amount to Nash, only on a longer deal.

Moving on to other stuff, since we’re contemplating throwing money around at guards, here’s Eric Gordon who’s selling himself to the highest bidder. Nevermind the positional fit for a moment since we got Ross/DeRozan, but would throwing money around at someone like Gordon be more of a long-term fix than satisfying Nash’s desire to “help out” his country?

I’m usually for tanking because I believe that’s how talent is infused into a franchise, but at this point I’m wondering whether, with so many young players on the roster, the youth quota has been filled and it’s time to actually supplement it with something that might lead to winning. JoVal, Bargnani, DeRozan, A. Johnson, Ross…we need more youth? Gotta think about this before we endorse another season of 15 wins leading to a mid-lottery pick because we’ll decide to win 10 of our last 15 games.

It’s a beautiful day. I might just peek outside only to find the neighbor staring back at me, before both of us go back inside scared shitless of coming out. That’s how I roll.

  • mountio

    I guess this is what it comes down to as a Raps fan. Ive been more excited over the last 24 hours reading all the rumours and listening to the pods than I have over the last two years (at least) during the season … gotta love hope!
    The more I think about all of this .. Im in a similar spot to Arse .. maybe it is time to add some real players … the reality is we were only 8th worst last year (with no JV and half a year of AB) .. so if we do nothing, we are destined for a 10-15 draft pick. How is that gonna get us over the hump?
    If this is where your head is at, then Nash is the way to go. No real downside from my perspective .. espeically if you arent giving up any young guys to do it. I would love if we could afford Batum also (or alternatively trade AB/JC for Pau/MWP). I think Nash alone doesnt do much (except make games more watchable) .. but Nash + other key move can make a real difference. As for Jose .. yes, dont amnesty for no reason. But if amnestying him means you cna get nash + batum or nash + gordon? Im all in for that ..

  • pran

    this franchise is making me sick to my stomach.

    • george

      Let’s hope Nash saves this organization from itself, and still has the desire to win a ring.

    • Sukhpinder

      Then dont follow them.

      • pran

        you’re right, only idiots like yourself would be amused at offering a 38 year old (an age where most nba players are retired) a 3 yr ~ 36 mill contract, when the rest of the team hasn’t proved they can be successful at the nba level.  

        The only reason I can think of signing nash, is to get the average fan to go to a raptors game, that’s not a move I’m tolerant with.

        • steve

           …yet you tolerate name calling?

        • p00ka

          Not “tolerant”, lmfao. Please tell me you mean that and will take your pompous azz to haunt another team’s forum.

        • Sukhpinder

          I did not say I was amused at offering a 38 year old a 36 million dollar contract, did I idiot? I said I was amused how you choose to follow a franchise that makes you “sick to your stomach” as you quoted. nowhere did I say that I approve this signing, so try again.

          • pran

            well I followed them last year, and I’m only beginning to voice my disaproval because their offseason plans have become a little clearer now, and I do not support the signing of nash at all. I could quite possibly not watch them next year…….   

            Not that it is any of your damn business, I’ll follow whoever I want to follow, and I can say whatever I want about the franchise, just worry about yourself and how to stop smelling like the curry I shat out this morning.

            • Sukhpinder

              good for you, you fudi.

              • pran

                haha you’ve thrown in the towel, probably straight from your head……..

                • steve

                   Highly inappropriate

                • pran

                  steve=sukhpinder troll? …..I could be wrong.

                • CJT

                  What’s wrong with you?  You can express your opinion with using this type of crap. 

                • T Ross

                  shut up you stupid Paki 

                • Destro

                  Mods do your jobs and ban this poster…

        • Kujo

          Yep, MLSE only cares about making money, and putting butts in the seats, not building a winner.  No doubt the Raps would sell out every home game. 

        • Destro

          i read near max contract lolol…

  • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

    Bargnani is not part of any youth movement he’s going on his 7th NBA season he is a NBA vet in his prime stop trying to sell that shit as OKC (average age 23) was just in the NBA Finals- we need quality NBA talent regardless if it’s young!!

    I don’t see Batum coming to the TDot.

    I would love to see BC packaged a trade around AB/Val/DD/draft pick for DHoward/Anderson.

    BC would love to roll out:

    Val
    Bargnani
    Batum
    DD/TRoss
    Nash

    A very International flavored starting line up to appease DStern & BC’s fetish.

    Btw DWill & JKidd are reportedly a package deal and the most money Kidd can get is in NJ, so Nash may end up going to Dallas (warm weather for his back) to play with his buddy Dirk thus in the end BC’s pursuit of Nash may just be a good storyline as ‘I tried to get him here’- time will tell.

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      Mark Jones: Raptors quietly hoping Valenciunas not in Olympics. Raps source “he needs to get into NBA mode in summer league.its a big adjustment for him” Twitter

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        Marc Stein: Raps still meeting w/Steve Nash in NYC as we speak. Also: Told Raps already trying to trade Calderon so amnesty not needed on expiring deal Twitter

      • Alec Sudakov

        this is BS
        taking part in high level competition is only good for him. He’ll need to adjust with or without summer league. He won’t be starting at first if Casey has his way

    • URaGuAY

      Shut up, Tim W.

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      ESPNSteinLine Marc SteinIn ESPN sitdown Nash said he’s eager to meet Mavs if they miss out on D-Will. But sources say TOR & NYK are his top two (no order) for now.

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      I hope DWill goes to NJ…

      Mark Jones: @Chris_Broussard just reported on Sportscenter that Raptors have offered @SteveNash a 3 yr 36 mil $ deal. Twitter

      Marc Stein: If Raps manufacture Calderon trade it’ll be w/team with space or exception to take Spaniard w/no outgoing $ just like Utah did w/Mo Williams Twitter
      As well Suns are interested in Fields in a potential NY S&T…

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        Mark Jones: @Chris_Broussard just reported on Sportscenter that Raptors have offered @SteveNash a 3 yr 36 mil $ deal. Twitter

        Marc Stein: If Raps manufacture Calderon trade it’ll be w/team with space or exception to take Spaniard w/no outgoing $ just like Utah did w/Mo Williams Twitter

        As well Suns are interested in Fields in a potential NY S&T…

        • Rob

          Damn, thats 12M a year, I like Nash but that’s no hometown discount, espec. for a 38 year old going on 39.

  • ad

    3 yr/ 40-50M for Nash?? If BC Does that he should be fired immediately after nash signs the contract. MAX 3yr/36M which is what i heard they offered. Not smart to make your initial offer that high before negotiating. Anyways, if they sign nash for 12M/yr (sigh) why not offer batum 8-10M/yr and see if portland matches. Who knows how much MIN is actually offering. They need a SF badly and I dont see how they could get a good one like gay thru trade due to the fact they have nobody that would interest Memphis.

    • DoNDaDDa

      judging by the fact the larry tananbaum flew with BC & DC from LA to met Nash On Tananbaums private jet.. i doubt theyd consider firing BC for this…

      • Statement

        Seriously, that happened?  Good Lord. 

        Are they gonna take turns walking Nash’s dog too?

        • DoNDaDDa

          yep… BC & company were in LA for a wedding & they flew over night in tananbaums private jet so they could be first to great nash in the morning… id asume Triano & Alex Mckechnie prob. joined them also

      • Destro

        Wait til the results of THIS are played out on the court..thats when he`ll be fired….

  • cdub

     if they amnesty any contract it should be Amir’s. 
    I would not offer Nash a max deal that is absurd.  Although they probably would just to fill the seats and sell jerseys.  That contract will cripple them for the next 3 years. 

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      Nash’s contract would be the price of doing business because they would make up his salary and more in merchandise sales plus the positive pr campaign would give BC a Canadian mass media hyped up team going into next season full of storylines……

      BC is trying to get his extension the heck with 3 years from now if he’s not a part of it is his thinking as all the rebuild/build hype was just another BC pr spin on losing games due to his decisions a President & GM…

      Any mention of DEFENSE CULTURE CHANGE for 2012-13 goes out of the window if Nash signs with the Raptors- starting both Nash & Bargnani does not represent a defensive mindset. 

      • Seeten

         Nash is no more limited than Calderon, and isn’t bad within a team concept, like a zone. He has active hands, and takes a lot of charges. He also gets superstar treatment/calls.

        By no means am I suggesting he’s Avery Bradley (Who I advocated us picking on this very site, by the by, when he went to the Celtics instead…) but he isn’t nearly as bad as he’s made out to be.

        • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

          Nash is 38 and has never been regarded as a stout defender even in his MVP prime now with a bad back & a reported 12 million dollar price tag I would pass- btw Nash is no longer a NBA superstar…..

          Nash & Bargnani- no thank you……trade AB/Val/DD for DHoward and then sign Nash.

          BC can’t be trusted with cap space……

          What was the NBA lockout about again- overpaying f/a’s, players demanding trades from teams? Still going on.

          I wanted Avery Bradley at the time on this site as well (over Ed Davis)  because I know those Seattle-Tacoma kids got heart plus he defends like a mad man.

          • hater

            alrite then what would be your new starting lineup buddy? it would be no better than what dwight had in orlando and he wants to go to new jersey. so you’d mortgage the team just for 1 season of dwight howard who doesnt even want to be here? foh…

            • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

              Obviously DH would have to agree to an extension before trading for him but it’s all an imaginary scenario since I’m not in charge and BC most likely isn’t trading AB….foh lol smh

              • hater

                lmao exactly and DH wouldnt agree to an extension here dummy which was my point all along and makes the idea of trading for him bs. and all u talked bout steve nash havin an injured back,,,,well dwight just had back surgery for herniated disk, and u have no problem trading for that? lmao u a straight fool for that thru and thru.

          • Seeten

             Keep Val, trade Calderon and AB to the Lakeshow for Gasol and cap fodder.

            I’m not saying Nash is a great defender, but he isn’t bad. He’s not gonna guard Derrick Rose, but who is? He can play in a zone, plays good team defense, takes 40 charges a year.

            Last year, with a pretty lousy defensive team behind him, he had a 20.3 PER and held opposing PG’s to a 13.6 PER. It isn’t like he’s Calderon, turning every scrub into Chris Paul. Thats not bad defense. 13.6 is worse than league average, and he had what, Marcin Gortat as his rim protector?

            Lets not jump over the moon, but lets not act like he’s a huge liability. He isn’t Bargnani on defense, or anything.

            As far as being a superstar goes, he gets superstar calls, regardless of whether he’s still a superstar. Thats the type of respect he gets nightly from the refs.

            I’d rather watch the Raptors with Nash win 45 games than without win 27 and head back to another worthless #11 pick.

            There is no way the team will be bad enough to get a top 3 pick with Casey coaching them up, and them playing as hard as they did this year. They’ll be just bad enough to turn into Houston East.

            • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

              You may get to see Nash’s 38 year old D with your own eyes…..

              Nash won’t bring 45 Ws….if his back even stays healthy for 82 games…..lol smh

              Nash’s so called respect from ref’s won’t happen in the TDot- get real….

            • Destro

              Your absolutely dreaming thinking Nash makes this a 45 win team….lol

      • Destro

        exactly it hurts you defensively,it hurts your cap space…it hurts ur ability to have freedom to make other moves cuz ur locked into him for 3 years and i think the upside is so limited its not worth the risk…

        Whats the max upside Nash gives you ans the team,maybe a few decent seasons comparable to last year in PHX BUT nothing that will put you in the playoffs or thats tangibly that much more than what you have….the worst case scenario should scare any reasonable person off this deal at that money…You cant bet on a 38 yr old whos breaking down and has defensive issues NOT when your on ur last leg in this city like BC is…. 

    • DoNDaDDa

      it was reported by marc stien that the raps were already exploring trades for Jose so no amnesty is need on an expiring deal..

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        Yes, get rid of Jose.

        Mark Jones: @Chris_Broussard just reported on Sportscenter that Raptors have offered @SteveNash a 3 yr 36 mil $ deal. Twitter

        Marc Stein: If Raps manufacture Calderon trade it’ll be w/team with space or exception to take Spaniard w/no outgoing $ just like Utah did w/Mo Williams Twitter

        As well Suns are interested in Fields in a potential NY S&T…

  • Seeten

    I am all in on Nash. At the very least, I’ll be able to watch Raptor games without having one hand covering my eyes. At best, I’ll be excited and giddy to be watching someone with a BBall IQ higher than the IQ of a BBall.

    Tank another season for what? Another #9, or #11 pick? Whats that getting Houston? Fuck it, give me a team that can win 45 games for godsake, and doesn’t make me burst into a combination of laughter and tears when someone asks who my team is.

  • FLUXLAND

    Forget assistant coach, I suspect Nash will be offered a piece of the
    franchise. Doesn’t he part own the Van MLS team?  And Toronto is perfect
    for his movie making ambitions.

    He’s not coming here for basketball, this all about the Stevie Nash
    money train.

    • Seeten

       Nothing wrong with money. Its the reason I go to work every single day I go to work. If they stopped paying me, I’d stop going to work immediately.

      If I were the Raptors, I’d offer him a career after basketball FOR SURE. Why wouldn’t you? He’s proven to be smart, loyal, capable and hard working.  Back up the truck. Get Gretzky in on the pitch, offer an owners box to Toronto FC MLS games. Whatever.

      • FLUXLAND

        Did you just compare you clock punching 9 -5 to a pro ball player? Does that work? Is your salary/wage guaranteed regardless of your performance?

        For the sake of discussion, sure,  nothing wrong with money. It’s the priority that’s the problem – he’s made it abundantly clear that’s what he cares about 1st and foremost is cash, not anything else. My assumption is that would take care of itself if, you know, he was actually winning something.

        Maybe if he spent time in the gym during the summers working on his D instead of making movies, playing soccer, spoof videos, making recyclable shoes or whatever else he was doing beside improving, he’d be more than a two time MVP thief. Hey, we are talking about a guy who couldn’t even play defense on the home front. Priorities in check with this guy, sure. 

        There are guys that love the game and there are guys that use if for their own benefit.   

        And if they offer him anything, after shutting out Zeke and Dr. J – two people that could have brought in far more players based on their reputation than Nash ever will, it will continue to add to the evidence this franchise is all about selling season tickets than making a mark in the NBA. Can you imagine how many people (generation Y)  will be waiting by the phone, with a rocket in their pocket, for Stevie to call them with a season ticket pitch?

        • p00ka

          “There are guys that love the game and there are guys that use if for their own benefit.”

          ALL evidence, throughout his entire career, is that he fits the former more than anybody playing the game today, yet you imply he belongs to the latter? Un-fn believable.

          • p00ka

            PS. On the court, he’s one of the best shooters ever, yet his focus is on making his teammates better. yeah, all about his benefit, eh.
            Off the court, all his ad/endorsement money goes to charities. ALL!! yeah, all about his own benefit, eh. pffffffffffffffffft

            • FLUXLAND

              Tax breaks, bud. Wake up.

              • Seeten

                 I just mentioned this upthread, but here:

                Player A:
                Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production

                Position
                FGA
                eFG%
                FTA
                iFG
                Reb
                Ast
                T/O
                Blk
                PF
                Pts
                PER*

                PG
                14.5  
                .448  
                5.0  
                21% 
                4.6  
                8.5  
                4.7  
                .3  
                4.1  
                17.1  
                13.8 
                Player B:
                Opponent Counterpart 48-Minute Production

                Position
                FGA
                eFG%
                FTA
                iFG
                Reb
                Ast
                T/O
                Blk
                PF
                Pts
                PER*

                PG
                16.0  
                .479  
                3.5  
                16% 
                4.7  
                8.7  
                3.1  
                .3  
                3.9  
                18.1  
                13.6  
                Can you tell me which defender is Chris Paul, and which is Steve Nash?

                • Seeten

                   ugh, formatting. Anyway, Player A: 13.8 opponent PER. Player B: 13.6 Opponent PER.

                  Player B is Steve Nash. The “Terrible” defender. With a better opponent PER than Chris Paul.

                  People spend too much time thinking skin color determines defensive ability. It doesn’t. Nash works as hard or harder than anyone in the game. If there are things to be down on him for, like being older, and not fitting into some ideal of tanking, I agree with those criticisms.

                  Criticizing him for coming to his home country, for big money, over taking 10 million plus A SEASON less on his paycheck to potentially get traded in 6 months if it doesn’t work out in Miami is just ridiculous.

                  I wish him the very best. If he chooses to chase a ring in Miami, I will hold no ill will, and I will cheer Miami on, after January, when the Raptors become mathematically eliminated, but I will sure not hold it against him if he chooses to take the extra $30+ million more to come up here and play in front of us.

                • FLUXLAND

                  I’m sorry, I don’t subscribe to statistical arguments.  I assume you are getting at him not being an atrocious defender.

                  All I can tell you is that if I need a stop, I would place more faith in CP3 than Nash.. the rest of the team being equal, I suppose.

                • Seeten

                   I can understand that line of thinking. The evidence suggests Nash is a decent defender, and so does the eye test. I watched 10 or 12 Suns games on League Pass last year, and outplayed the other PG in every game but 1.

                  There are a lot of arguments I’ll listen to on the anti-Nash bandwagon, but him not being a good enough player isn’t one of them.

                  He instantly becomes our best player by a mile. It isn’t even close. 38 or not.

                • Destro

                  Hes a terrible defender bruh…this spin wont work on anybody who has watched him….and he gets lit up by even mediocre PGs Luke Ridnour status on a nightly basis….Just wait..

                • CJT

                  that’s why you are so consistently wrong. 

                • FLUXLAND

                  HAHAHAHAHA.

                  I’m wrong. Don’t think you have been here long enough to make that claim, Champ.

                  I was wrong when I said Bosh will leave and ppl like you were saying he wouldn’t leave all that money on the table?
                  I was wrong when I said JO would be a disaster and you were buying the “oh shit, you gotta deal with me and Chris in the post and all we gonna do is kick it to our shooters” ? I was wrong when I said DD would amount to nothing and the Yung Gunz would suck?  I was wrong when I said Hedo would be an epic fail? I was wrong when I said Kapono was given IDIOT money? 
                  I was wrong when I was calling Jose nothing but a back up in his 1st year and your brand of fan was calling him an All Star for decades to come? I was wrong when I said Bargs is no more than a 15 and 5 guy? (maybe I said 7 actually)

                  I didn’t need stats to see all that coming.

                  Only people that are clueless about  the game use stats to make their arguments, because they either never played it or haven’t been paying attention long enough to see what’s going on. Stats, eh? Like that f clown Buddahfan that used to troll on here with his Amir stats and profess to everyone how he would take the Raps to glorious heights, because he was backing everything up with statistical”facts”.

                  Give it a rest, CJT, and research before you accuse people of things.  And please spare me  your easy to be cynical crap. It’s much easier to look at everything with pink glasses on and then when it all goes to shit claim how you were the right kind of fan because you were “optimistic”.
                  Much easier to paint a rosy picture and then claim how things didn’t work out due to bad luck, voodo, or whatever else the optimist camp comes up with.

                  GTFOH or provide some evidence of me being wrong. Otherwise, take those stats and shove them you know where.

              • p00ka

                Every player, coach, exec, and media type in the league, who deal with him directly for years, all differ with you, but you know best, eh. Feel blessed folks. We’re blessed to have such a seer in our midst.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Pooka, I’m really starting to worry about you, you seem to be more concerned over what i think, rather than countering my points.

                  By now you should know I could care less about people dependent on the NBA for their livelihood spew so you can buy tickets.

                  Carry on, oh blind sheep.. keep following into the promised land, don’t forget your Kool Aid.  

                • p00ka

                  There’s precious little of “a point” to counter, when someone just blabbers their unfounded opinion. There’s plenty of evidence to counter your opinion, yet zero beyond opinion to support your “point”.

                  You know a guy is getting desperate when she/he brings out the Kool-Aid fall-back line. Lame offense as defense, but I follow and cheer for the Raps and Nash to seek enjoyment, and far prefer what you and your kind call kool-aid, over your daily dose of poison. Happy CANADA day! Be happy :)

                • FLUXLAND

                  Unfounded opinion? Selective reading Pooka? I don’t see you claiming Nash doesn’t participate in clowning activities when he could have worked on his game. I don’t see you reporting how he’s called GP to work with him. I don’t see you claiming he doesn’t chase money.

                  I’m not getting desperate, I just don’t place all the value into what I read from NBA grunts like you do.  The glass is half full over there? Good for you Pooka.  Do you feel like a super hero because you think you are standing up for the optimistic side?  You want a gold star sticker? Cookie? What is it Pooka? Tell us, boy, what is it? You just keep barking at me.

                • p00ka

                  Ahhhh, the other side of the coin isn’t always comfy to deal with, is it?

                  Not looking for a thing, lad. Just calling out someone who consistently brings a shitty attitude to the table, on every fn topic, every fn day, about my team.

                  Perhaps you don’t agree that this is what you represent, but on the surface, would that sound like a somewhat….. er…. okay…. or…. acceptable part of team discussion?

                  I think that’s what you represent, so I exercise my right as a different ilk of fan and counter what I can. I don’t enjoy your basketball brilliance, so counter/bark at only the easy stuff: stupidity, which you seem to be supplying more and more of.

                • FLUXLAND

                  You keep fan policing Pooka with your bark;it’s the only thing you are good at. You have never posted anything of substance basketball wise on this site, all you do is question other people’s type of fandom because it doesn’t fit your definition. In other words your are a useless troll. Thanks for confirming. I gave you the benefit of the doubt, gave you a chance to counter points, but all you do is attack me because you don’t like my form. I think we are done here, son.

                • p00ka

                  I counter what you say. If you can’t take that, don’t type stupidity, and you won’t see me. Deal? Show me otherwise, or is that simply  against the rules here?

                • Destro

                  What do those execs think of him divorcing his wife on the same day she gave birth to his child hmmmmm

            • Rob

              Good too see Fluxland hasn’t stopped with her pontificated bullshit. I’ve always thought that she’d be best suited to work for the tabloids, that way, somebody would actually care to listen to her misinformation and blabber.

              • FLUXLAND

                Good to see Roberta contributes zero to the discussion, per usual. Have another bonbon and keep flipping the tabloid pages, seems you know all about them.

                • Rob

                  Who’s Roberta? You’re PMSing again Flux, there must be other outlets of letting out those mood swings of yours, rather than spouting off on RR. 

                • FLUXLAND

                  Someone lie to you Roberta? Did you think the Net is where we all hold hands and nod in agreement?  I’m sure there are plenty of places where people agree with you and you can bask in your wisdom. Did you get lost?

                • M12mars48

                  You are the ugliest kid on the internet… 

                  your so sad and depressing to read man, go out and do something in life for fucks sake… this is a FAN SITE man…

                • FLUXLAND

                  I’ll take that over Dumbest Kid On The Planet, a title you’ve held since your parents had you.

                  Not sure where you got your definition of fan, but it doesn’t mean look at everything through a pink prism.

                  Do you have anything Raptor related to contribute or are you going to keep sending me love notes? 

                • Rob

                  Lol, ironic you’re telling him to post basketball-related posts, when you’re the one that likes to delve into the personal lives of pro-basketball players, act like you know what a player’s training routine is like, and making wild accusations that you can’t even support with evidence; you never post facts, but have the nerve to stand by what you say. Post facts. 

                  There are pessimists, optimists, blind optimists, and realists. I’m a realist, non-partial, and objective. You, on the other hand, are unrealistic, overly cynical and subjective, which is fine, until you play your kool-aid spiel, and tell us how we should think, evidenced by your “get a clue” to everyone that as a dissenting opinion that differs from yours, and how we’re all sheep in a slaughter house, while you’re some kind of rebel that chose to wear a short skirt at the prom instead of a dress. We’re all entitled to opinions, and my opinion is that you’re an idiot.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Ditto, last sentence.

                • p00ka

                  says it all :)

                • Rob

                  I still don’t know who Roberta is, you are starting to worry me Flux, you’re having your hot flashes again.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Look in the mirror, she’s right there.

          • FLUXLAND

            What evidence? Bailing on DAL for more money?  The countless reports of him taking less money so his teams can sign other players? The perennial summer reports of him focusing on his ball skills and working with former defensive PGs? His talk of wishing he had chosen pro soccer?  Please Pooka, spare my your hero worshiping drivel. 

            • p00ka

              Re-inventing history to suit your script is certainly your specialty. Let me present a different view of what went down, when you say he “bailed” on his team. After giving 6 years of hard work (including him and Dirk working long after hours), his owner publicly states he doesn’t think the lad’s health is going to hold up, and low-balls him considerably below market value. Meanwhile the Suns, who drafted him, come calling and offer him closer to his market value (you criticize that?!!!!), and the keys to the team, where he proves Cuban out to lunch on his value. BUT you say he “bailed” on Dallas? OINK, how’s the slop today?

              • FLUXLAND

                Yeah, I criticize that. I don’t appreciate money chasers, maybe you do. He made his choice, money over rings, just like he’s doing now.  He chose the easy way out, choosing a team that was conducive to his style of play.

                Yeah he f bailed. Are you dense?  So, you value guys that prefer cash over rings and I don’t. What exactly is your problem hombre? You can’t stand people who have a different opinion than you? Let it go Pooka, I feel like you are stalking me.

                What f value? Who’s has a ring? Cubes or Nash?

                Do you weak up and eat stupid for breakfast or what?

                • p00ka

                  lmfao, “stalking”!! I guess I just have this secret affection for sanctimonious weasels on the webs.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Sanctimonious!!   Now that’s ironic, and rich coming from you. Thanks for the laugh. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAH!

                  Self awareness is not your strong point, Pooka. You keep those horse blinders on and carry on to the promised land. 

                  You know a guy is desperate when he continually attacks peoples character because he doesn’t like what they write and can’t argue further or concede he carries a different POV.

                  Happy stalking PsychoPook.

                • p00ka

                  I started this exchange, as I always do, responding directly to what you say. You turned it into a optimist/pessimist, different point of view whine when you couldn’t defend your dumb comments. I appreciate different points of view but some, like you, need to accept that when they express theirs publicly, they’re open to be challenged. If you can’t handle that, go to the playground and find some friends that will look up to the superior knowledge you think you have.

                • FLUXLAND

                  I remember the days when they used to teach reading comprehension.

                  You respond by saying media outlets differ from my opinion. That’s your challenge?  Do you have any original thoughts on anything or do you just copy paste and follow like a sheep?

                  I turned it into that because you don’t have any point to counter with, you take everything you read at face value, I can’t help that you are naive. If I wanted to discuss things with media grunts I wouldn’t be here.

                  I can handle it, I’m just done wasting my time with someone who doesn’t know how to carry a discussion and ends everything with got any proof of that?  Or attacks my form because they don’t like their team being show in a less than optimistic light. And I quote:

                  “Just calling out someone who consistently brings a shitty attitude to
                  the table, on every fn topic, every fn day, about my team. ”

                  Stop hiding Pooka and start typing about basketball.  Last comment to you, unless you got something basketball related to say. The fact you keep bringing the discussion to my form speaks volumes.

                • FLUXLAND

                  And I didn’t “turn in into” anything. Again, if you actually know how to follow a point someone is making you would see how I got there. But again reading comprehension is something you clearly failed.

                  Once you wrote “Every player, coach, exec, and media type in the league, who deal with
                  him directly for years, all differ with you, but you know best, eh.”  it was obvious you don’t have any original thoughts and it warranted the Kool Aid response, because it was clear discussing someone who buys everything he reads is a waste of time.

                  It’s not that difficult to understand , but you go ahead and accuse me of whatever helps you sleep at night.

              • p00ka_is_a_fish

                All this Bargnani fanboy can think of is how much more points Bargnani will put up thanks to Steve Nash but hey when only 1 guy plays defense you end up like the Knicks.

    • DoNDaDDa

      i doubt rogers or bell give away any piece of MLSE to anyone.. a more realistic situation would be that Nash is groomed after retirement for a front office role..

      • FLUXLAND

        I really don’t think it’s that far fetched; but yeah I see him working the phones (see my comment above) 

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/TRPH647AXY5T5XHXI2AFSG3XHA OvertheWall

    Nash will be exciting in Toronto for the casual fan.  For the hardcore fan, he will be painful because you know that championship is impossible while he is here, and that the best possibility is early exit from the playoffs.  What is the point????

    • mountio

      you think were winning a championship with our current roster? Will the 10-15th pick next year (where we are headed without nash) gonna take us over the edge? Are we trading any of our young talent or passing on key young free agents to sign him? Help me out with this one .. ?

      • george

        Some of us were still hoping of the objectives of the organization. There won’t be any uncertainty if this happens.

        • Seeten

           The objective of the organization needs to be to have an objective. Last season, we did a half-assed tank, that gained us nothing. T-Ross isn’t terrible, but there are dozens of shooters in the D-League and Europe that can make a 3 and play a little defense, and have a 6’7″ wingspan.

          If you want to spend multiple more seasons tanking for the option of getting more readily available d-league talent, I dunno what to tell you.

          Is Nash the longterm answer? Obviously not. But look, Toronto has already proved it isn’t interested in winning the NBA Championship, so why are we expecting that. At this point, I’m rooting for a watchable basketball team. We’re never gonna win a championship. Never.

          • CramWayTooManyWords2Gether

            You’re right, if you’d gone to Raptors management and said “Do you want to win a ring?” they would have said “Ew, yuck, no.”

            No one here is being sensible. Do you know how many teams have won NBA championships over the last twenty years? 8. The NBA championship is maybe the most difficult to win, and you’re not going to do it all of a sudden after being a joke in the league. Making gradual steps towards respectability will help the Raptors look like a viable option to future free agents, and also improve the culture in the locker room.

            • FLUXLAND

              “No one here is being sensible” followed by  “Making gradual steps towards respectability will help the Raptors look
              like a viable option to future free agents, and also improve the
              culture in the locker room.”

              By what? Signing 40 year old pylons?  Improve the culture? Bud, this is not Derek Fisher signing with the Thunder.

              • Seeten

                 Again, Nash’s defense compares favorably to Chris Paul. He is not a pylon, except in your mind. Calderon gives up an 18 opponent PER. He turns everyone he faces into Steve Nash. Nash, on the other hand, turns his opponent into Derek Fisher.

                Sign me up for that sort of defensive upgrade.

                • FLUXLAND

                  I read both of your replies and will respond here.

                  I appreciate the argument, I can see where you are coming from.  And as much as you see an upgrade, I still don’t think it warrants viewing it as a drastic one. 
                  Do you really think opponent will be shaking with fear if it’s Nash over Jose standing in front of them? Do you really think it changes the opposing coaches strategy?

                  You may, but imo you are reaching. So you jumped from a Pinto to a Yugo…are we going much faster?

                • Seeten

                   If it was only better on defense, I’d agree. But its not. He’s also a dramatically better shooter (The best in league history, according to Hollinger, and the best last season, according to the Sloan conference) and a dramatically better passer, and possibly the best pick and roll operator in the NBA. In the last 10 years, he’s led the leagues #1 offense 8 times, and he’s had a different cast of characters repeatedly.

                  He is 38, and Phoenix (with a massive talent deficit) wasn’t #1 last year, both true. But damn it, we’re going nowhere without him. It isn’t like we’re gonna tank our way into a Top 3 pick, man, you know it as well as I do, we’ll be “tanking” our way to #10. I’d rather have Nash and get the #15-18 pick. Yes I would.

                • FLUXLAND

                  So now we are switching sides of the ball, to suit your argument. OK.

                  All that statistical noise (something I already explained I don’t put stock  into) yielded how many rings exactly? I’m sure you could come out with some of the same noise about Jose.  Offense doesn’t win rings either, so again sorry but.. who cares?

                  I get your thinking, I do. No issues there, I just don’t subscribe to it because for me it’s about more than stats.

                  Thanks for (not) answering the questions. Flip his stats any way you want, but the only people in the NBA fronting those are the Raptors, I assume, because if you noticed the rest of the L doesn’t seem to be buying into the hype, otherwise why isn’t everyone throwing money at him?

                  At the end of the day you are buying a 40 yr old non defensive PG with 15 yrs of mileage and hoping for what exactly? To be entertained? If that’s your cup of tea, dive in.  

                • Seeten

                   Miami can’t throw money at him, it has only the mini midlevel available. So whether it wouldnt like to or not, it cant.

                  Dallas has only the mid level to offer.

                  The Knicks have the mini midlevel only.

                  The Nets have slightly less money available than we do, but they have D-Will and Howard to worry about, so not sure how much they can offer. ESPN had an article on it, but its unclear what pieces will move in that trade, making it unclear what they can offer.

                  Phoenix appears to be rebuilding.

                  Toronto has both cap space, and motive. First, they’ll make their money back in triplicate on jerseys alone, let alone media coverage, ad revenue, increased viewership on TV, etc.

                  As I see the fundamental question, its this. Are we better off with, or without Steve Nash. We’re going nowhere without him, other than to a lousy spot in the late lottery. We’ll be in the late lottery the next 3 years without him.

                  We’re going nowhere with Steve Nash, except possibly to the 1st round of the playoffs, where we’ll probably lose. Maybe we don’t quite make it there, but its a hell of a lot better than 28-54 and the 12th pick in the draft, and it’ll be entertaining.

                  I don’t think Steve Nash makes us a contender, but I don’t think any free agents in this class make us a contender, and I don’t think we’re bad enough, or sensible enough to tank properly under Casey. The guys tried hard last year, and even with an enormous talent deficit, won more games than I wish they would have. I’d be happier about it if it wasn’t a 5 player draft.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Not sure what you are getting at..so get him for the sake of entertainment?

                  What are we doing?  Getting a guy to make money for the owners and eating playoff losses? What does all that amount to? Treadmill?

                  I get it, I do. I’m the one that said the franchise is in a come from a business POV, and this makes them relevant to the tribal honkers who are fixated on a game to game basis. But if these are the goals we are resorting to, it  speaks to the future players of the NBA, and current young ones, that this franchise is about profits not winning. This will attract the Hedos and Kaponos of the L, but any player looking for an organization committed to winning it all is not looking in this direction because they understand if the franchise is in a money saving or making mode, they will be a casualty. 

                  And you can’t predict what the records will be, it can easily amount to the 20-30 range, as anyone claiming that he is less likely to get injured as he gets older is out to lunch. Not the mention all the other variables.
                  Plus,  PyschoPooka and Roberta will accuse of stating your opinion as fact. .

                • Seeten

                   Get him for for entertainment. Its the best option of a bad set.

                • Rob

                  Sigh, still at it Flux? Save your breath, you’ll need it to blow up your date tonight.

                • CJT

                  I don’t think you do get it.  There aren’t a lot of options to get this year.  Why wouldn’t you take a chance that Nash will help attract other FA’s help develop our young players put fans in the seats, generate some excitement about the team for many fans. etc. etc. etc. etc.  The Raps have too much talent to lose enough games to get a high draft pick so why wouldn’t you try whatever you can to try and build another way?

          • Rapsilly

            I agree, we can’t even tank properly.

            We can’t win a coin toss. Heck, we get a 1st pick overall, and it’s on one of the weakest drafts in history. 

            Maybe it’s the Leafs curse spilling over into the Raptors.

            Anyways, Brian’s “objective” was to give himself tons of flexibility to sculpt a good playoff-bound line-up. I’m not sure that Nash gives us much more credibility than Calderon, as far as getting into the playoffs, and exiting the first round.

            I’d rather go with Calderon, and get another lottery pick next year. I can wait for a contender, I just need hope that it’s somewhere in the future.

    • The Truth

       Winning a championship with any of the guys currently on the roster is impossible. Adding Nash is hardly going to make it worse.

  • weedman

    I don’t think many would deny that regardless of how successful or not it may have been, there *was* a tanking aspect to last season. The best sense I can make of it is (along the line of) BC and his bosses insisted on SOME effort to tank … and DC and company grudgingly followed their orders as best they could (and as much as their respective consciences would allow) by playing that wildly odd assortment of players that we saw at times during some of the more bizarre moments of the season (instead of who they could’ve been playing) … but even then, they still weren’t quite able to disconnect the ‘new culture’ (Casey’s systemized team defense) enough to be able to lose those games that — to pro-tankers — they foolishly won … especially after ‘successfully’ blowing games they could’ve (seemingly) won and did not. (If you follow.) 

    What I might’ve learned is that it’s a whole lot tougher than I would’ve thought (had I considered it) to get highly skilled professional teams to actually TANK. As in, aim to lose games. Which really, is not far from the disgraceful mess that the Chicago Black Sox became famous for, ninety-three years ago.  

    As an aside, the worst lay-down I might’ve ever seen was the Nets against the Raptors, last game of this past season. Afterward, I couldn’t help but imagine Mikhail Prokhorov walking into the players’ dressing room sometime before the game carrying an AKM Russian Assault Rifle, saying only two words before leaving: “Lose, motherfuckers.” However it might’ve happened, David Stern didn’t like it. (Haha.) 

    Point all being, even though we *only* got the eighth pick in the lottery, it was probably a lot better than we actually *deserved*. With JV not here, ripening and maturing some, overseas … and Bargnani playing as little as upper management secretly preferred after re-injuring his not-yet-healed calf muscle, with the team playing a way higher calibre of defense than I recall seeing a Raptors team play even with the scrubs we often had out there, well … we were probably lucky to be in the lottery at all. 

    Far as I’m concerned, we’re more ahead of the game than most of us realize. 

    Happy Canada Day. *big hit* 

    • Raptorboy

       Well said Weedman. There were definitely glimpses of a solid basket ball team on the floor last year. We got a real coach now and some very decent players. If JV pans out (he looks awesome to me!!), Ross can play, and we upgrade with Nash, I think we’ll have a nice team! Nash might only be around for a few years but the professionalism and approach he brings to the game will linger for many years in the heads of those lucky enough to play with him! Gonna be a great season to watch. So we can’t compete with Miami…who can besides OKC? At least we’re on the path. BC Casey and Co. know what their at. Lets enjoy the ride!!!

  • Schristie

    I love it if we sign Nash we are not going to win a tilte…just cause every thinkg Raps cant win a tiltle in the next 3 years BC is going to try….after all that is his job….Nash = hope….Nash = better team…I am all in….BC wont stop there  he is going to make this team as good as possible this year…you have cap space add Val, Nash and  someone else with Andrea and DD and some good young bench players thats what his job is to try to win ….put asses in the seats make us relevant…..Win some games….make the playofffs…..sounds like a fucken plan to me…..wake up people!!!!

    • mountio

      Well said. And dont really sacrifice anything in terms of our young guys to do it .. help me with the downside?

  • Statement

    “It’s a beautiful day. I might just peek outside only to find the neighbor staring back at me, before both of us go back inside scared shitless of coming out. That’s how I roll.”

    LOL.  Hilarious.

    • brother

      Agreed. Best line on the republic in a very long time.

  • The Rub

    If Eric Gordon is willing to come here we need to give him max money and get his ass over here.

  • guest

    Batum was mentored by Monty Williams in Portland before he went to New Orleans and the french connection for New Orleans give them a good advantage in getting Batum.  I have always thought Nash was coming to Toronto and I honestly would rather have Nash for three years @ $12 a year than Dragic at $10. Nash will make this team better. No chance Gordon is coming to Toronto, Indiana, or New Orleans have the best chance. HoweverMayo is a possibility.

  • brother

    I love Nash. But big money on him is frightening.
    1) he’s 38 with a very bad back; as a 38 year old, I can tell you – stuff doesn’t heal like it used to and nagging injuries nag for decades especially if you keep putting weight on them. For pro athletes, adding massive mileage on your body every week is par for the course. He WILL be worse for wear next year than he was this year, that’s a physical reality.2) he will be un-trade-able. Imagine him in year 2 of his contract and days away from is 40th birthday with nigh on $25 million owed. NOBODY would touch that contract. It was mentioned earlier in the thread, but this smacks of an Olajuwon type situation.

  • Raptorsss

    Barring major injuries, Nash will have us competing for the 8th seed.  A season with realistic playoff aspirations is infinitely more enjoyable, than being mired in mediocrity.  Plus, Nash does have a pull factor for other players in the league. 

  • Brandon

    There’s talk now of trading Calderon and that would give them the ability to amnesty Kleiza, although he might be a good player to have with Nash as a running mate, but that would give them additional money to throw at Batum, assuming they bring back no money, or very little of it, in the Calderon deal. 

    I think they should try to get some more experienced garbagemen, eg. Josh Childress, to clean things up a bit.

    • guest

      Kleiza is safe with Toronto for this year because he is here to help Jonas make the transition.

      • DoNDaDDa

        agreed… it would be Amir who gets amnestied in this situation IMO

  • boshrawr

    I’m appalled at some of the responses in regards to Nash joining the raptors. Are we as raptors fans really in a position to be picky and choosey about which free agents we would rather have. Let’s be realistic and not hoodwink ourselves any longer Batum is not gonna come and neither is Gordon so to have nash at 12 mill a year annually has to suffice. The guy is a hall of fame point guard and I believe he’s got a good two maybe three years left of averaging a double double. I can remember reading several members salvating at the thought of nash coming to Toronto and now we’re complaining about the price. This my friends is as good as it gets. If it comes to fruition this will be the best free agent to ever sign with the Raptors. There’s no where to go but up and I’m personally excited at the prospect of nash running the p/r with val. Oh and all this nonsense about colangelo doing it to save his ass; that may be the case but you think that if he was on a new 3 year extension he wouldn’t try to bring him in anyway. No matter who the gm is nash to Toronto was always a possibility because everybody in north America wants to see it happen, its just fitting. I’d rather colangelo get the extension and have the ability to work freely and pursue his vision for the team with his judgement unhindered by his job security or lack thereof.
    P.S forgive me if I’m all over the place I’m rather angry that Spain just scored. Not an Italy fan either lol.

  • FAQ

    Nashing = instant gratification for the tribal honking fans.

    Tanking = sensible strategy for the 2013 #1 draft pick.

    Banking = tough decision for ML$E.

     

    • M12mars48

      That was wack, stfu

    • Seeten

       You amuse me, but you know we’ll eff up tanking this year just like we effed it up last year. Remind me, did we get Anthony Davis, or a 2 guard who can do nothing other than shoot and play D?

  • John

    36 million, 3 years Nash ??

  • Malefax

    The tank has left the building. Even if we just play our young guys, we won’t get a top 5 pick next year.

  • 77er

    Forget Nash, keep Jose.  Show some loyalty, develop the young guns and change the culture.

  • Jpisadummy

    Use that batum money on ray ray.

  • Brezec for Prezec

    With everything going on the last 24 hours, and despite our differing opinions, safe to say that if Nash doesn’t pick this team with that money on the table – who will?

    This is no longer about basketball, it’s about franchise viability in the eyes of the players of the league. If Steve goes to the Knicks, we will never attract a decent free agent again, at least not until we get lucky in the draft (ie Blake Griffin, Wince Carter, etc…).

    May not be the most solid basketball decision, but it now is the only hope we have of seeing a deep post season run within five years.