Ed’s Note: This is a guest post by GetDefensive.

Aside from a couple early flameouts in the Dunk Contest by DeMar DeRozan, the Raptors have scarcely been represented at all-star weekend since Chris Bosh left town.  Sure, there’s been the occasional Rookie-Sophomore game representative (I think?) but anyone that expected a Raptor to be playing on Sunday either needed his head examined or knew where Amir plays pickup on his days off.  Sure, Valanciunas and Ross could potentially find themselves representing the rookies, but like every Raptors fan I find myself constantly wanting, even hopelessly expecting, more.  Here’s a look at the Raptors’ chances at making the big game this season:

 Lucky to get a seat as a fan:

In this category, also called the “No chance in hell” section, we find roughly half of those expected to attend training camp.  Legends like the great John Lucas III and the immovable Aaron Gray headline this crowd and are joined by a long list of players that would be ecstatic to still be on an NBA roster in February.  This list includes Alan Anderson, Dominic McGuire, Quincy Acy, Jamaal (ugh!) Magloire, Chris Wright and Jerel McNeal (who?), of which a few most certainly will not survive the preseason.  Moving on….

It would take A LOT of luck, improvement, and injuries

(And most people still wouldn’t agree):

In our second group things start to look a little more optimistic, in much the same way that -40 degrees looks more optimistic than -50.  Long story short: it doesn’t look good either way.  Both these zebras have shown their stripes and barring some miracle, highly unexpected serious improvement, they’ll be watching from their couches like the rest of us.  It’s here we find our resident Lithuanian translator Linas Kleiza and perpetual potential himself, Mr. Amir Johnson.  In theory, there’s an outside chance for anyone who’s scored 40 points in an NBA game like Kleiza has.  And you never know when someone with the tools and hustle of Amir might put it all together and stay on the court long enough to shock the world.  In all likelihood, however, we are seriously grasping at straws here.  Next.

The unknowns:

In this group we find our prized rookies (I said prized, apologies to Mr. Acy who is only prized by friends and family – and NOT in a basketball sense).  Although unlikely, there is always a chance a lottery selection like Terrence Ross or Jonas Valanciunas could blow the roof off the building in year one and find themselves in the big game.  However, seeing as how only Blake Griffin and Tim Duncan have made the team as rookies in the last 15 years (without the aid of a billion or so Chinese voters, that is – shout out to Yao), and because Big Val has already been injured in pre-preseason, I’ll sum up this analysis with a simple “Good luck boys, you’re gonna need it.”

Potentially still have potential:

Here we have Landry Fields and Ed Davis, two 3rd-year pros who showed less in their 2nd seasons than they did in their 1st.  Is it possible that Fields was just a victim of the ball domination of Carmelo Anthony? Sure.  Is it possible that a full training camp will make all the difference in the world for Davis?  Absolutely.  But we’re talking about the All-Star game here, folks, and either player making the team would surprise more people than if Reggie Miller’s annoying voice found its way onto a regular broadcasting crew.  Oh wait….

On the outside looking in:

He’s almost made it before, but Jose Calderon’s all-star fate was officially sealed the minute Bryan Colangelo acquired Kyle Lowry for a rack of basketballs and a 24-pack of Molson Canadian.  The only way he makes it: if Lowry gets injured early and both the team and Calderon greatly exceed expectations.  Otherwise he could hope for a trade and a starting gig elsewhere, and then all bets are off.  Although still a long shot it could happen, but then he wouldn’t be representing the Raptors anyway.

That leaves the only 3 that have any real shot, and in hindsight I probably could’ve started and ended with these 3 instead of writing what amounted to a season preview but alas, I’ve come much too far to not waste your time like I have wasted my own.

DeMar DeRozan:

Enough excuses have been made for this young man that I’m almost starting to believe them, but this has to be his year.  Hopefully he has no lady troubles this season and he definitely shouldn’t be surprised when his coach actually demands he play defense (seriously, how could he have expected that after the way the franchise coddled him his 1st 2 years?).  For him to make it, he’s gonna have to dominate against real competition, not the Drew League scrubs we see him beat up on every summer.  He’s got to commit to playing defense so Coach Casey doesn’t sit him in favour of Fields or Ross and show real improvement on the glaring weaknesses that were present in his game last season.  That means a tighter handle, consistent shooting, extended range, and a more aggressive mindset.  If he shows all of that, he might have a shot.

Andrea Bargnani:

As good a chance as any on this team, Andrea played the 1st 13 games last year like a man who wanted this.  He was playing defence like I never thought I’d live to see, he was scoring efficiently like the nightmare matchup we’ve imagined since he was drafted 1st overall, and he was rebounding… um… he got some rebounds!  Then the calf muscle strain robbed us of the Bargnani that we’d been waiting for, a player who was already garnering serious all-star consideration.  When he returned he was back to his old lethargic self, and Raptors fans around the world were left wondering what might have been….  This season, the hope is that he returns to the Andrea from those 13 games and not the player who continually makes me scream at my television.  The tools are there, they always have been.  The question is desire.  Amir Johnson must look at him with utter resentment for the gifts this man has essentially wasted to this point, while he hustles his ass off only to end up with 20 minutes per game.  Can Bargnani show the heart and determination to go out and take an all-star selection?  Will he finally live up to his draft position and the Dirk Nowitzki comparisons?  If he’s ever gonna do it, now is the time.

Kyle Lowry:

Kyle Lowry steps into the starting line-up and immediately assumes his role as the best point guard in Raptors history, actually usurping the same person in both instances.  Yes, he is not as polished as Jose offensively, but he can do things Jose cannot like drive the lane and you know, play defense.  He will likely have the most impact on whether the Raptors win or lose games this season, and as such it is the team record that will be the biggest determining factor in whether he makes the all-star team.  He’s earned consideration before, and unlike DeMar and Andrea he has no obvious holes in his game for him to easily improve upon.  He’s already an above average defender, shooter, ball-handler, passer, and he can take it to the rim to collapse the defense or finish in traffic.  However, while a fairly complete player, there is not much about his game that really jumps off the page.  For him, much like Steve Nash and his MVPs, it’s going to be the success of the team that earns him the accolades that he deserves.  If this team is above .500, Lowry will deserve an all-star nod.

 The 2013 NBA All-Star Team (East):

Likely Starting Line-Up

Guards: Dwyane Wade, Rajon Rondo/Deron Williams

Forwards: Lebron James, Carmelo Anthony (damn fan voting)

Centre: Andrew Bynum

Locks on the Bench

Guards: Rajon Rondo/Deron Williams

Forward/Centre: Chris Bosh

For the sake of discussion, let’s assume that one of the PF/C-types (like Bosh, Al Horford, Kevin Garnett, etc.) will make it in as the required backup “centre” so that we may just pick the best available from who’s left.  I’m not saying another centre won’t make it, I’m just saying that we need not pencil in every coach to vote for a true centre because they have to when they are allowed flexibility with all these PF/C players.  Some of them may, however, which could very well help a guy like Roy Hibbert make it in (spoiler alert).  Another assumption: there will be 3 more backup forwards/centres to be selected in addition to 2 more guards.  It’s likely how it will play out, although there is a chance there’s 4 extra forwards/centres or 3 extra guards.  There’s a lot of “ifs” at play here, so we’re gonna have to accept certain probabilities somewhere at this point.

Based on these assumptions, the remaining guard spots will be filled by 2 of either Joe Johnson, Monta Ellis, Kyle Lowry, Kyrie Irving, or John Wall.  Johnson is probably the most likely, in my opinion, as coaches have a history of voting players in based on their “lifetime achievement” (see: Tim Duncan, 2011 and Dirk Nowitzki, 2012).  While he could slip as he will now have to share the ball and the spotlight with Deron Williams, there’s just as much of a chance that Brooklyn will be good enough to have 2 all-stars as Milwaukee or Toronto being good enough to have 1.  This leaves 1 spot at guard and while Irving or Wall could explode and sneak in, my gut tells me it comes down to Ellis and Lowry.  Whoever’s team has the best record wins.  You’ll notice DeMar doesn’t make the cut, but he still has a chance at forward so let’s check it out.

With 3 selections left there’s a lot more uncertainty in who might make it.  Josh Smith is the most likely I think, as he’s deserved it for a few years and will get plenty more attention now that Johnson is gone.  That team is his now, and he, not Horford, will probably be Atlanta’s sole representation at the all-star game.  The Hawks probably won’t be good enough to have 2 all-stars unless they both play very, very well.  If Horford makes it, he’s probably taking a lot of touches away from Smith anyway, as well as his all-star bid.  So 1 spot is probably taken by Atlanta either way; moving on.  Next is Roy Hibbert.  We may not need a true centre, but the Pacers will probably deserve to have an all-star as arguably the 2nd best regular season team in the Eastern Conference next year.  Hibbert is the most likely to make it and many coaches will vote for him just because they have to list a centre and Hibbert is the only pure centre worthy of votes.  The PF/C-types may end up splitting votes amongst themselves and small forwards and Hibbert will likely have the team success to sneak in, even if some of the PF/C-types have slightly better stats.

For the last spot, we have many to choose from.  Although not typically a strong regular season team lately, if Boston comes on strong and Garnett or Pierce plays well they could have 2 all-stars this year.  Both of their chances are hurt by the presence of each other and their need/ability to rest due to age and the increased depth at their positions on the roster.  Brook Lopez is very doubtful as he’s not even the 2nd best player on his own team.  Danny Granger has a decent chance as Indiana will be very good, but his game has fallen off a bit lately and Hibbert is far more likely to represent that team.  They will be good enough to send 2 players to the big game, but only if they both really stand out and I doubt that’s going to happen.  Amare Stoudemire could make it, but he’s got to play a lot better than last season and that might be too much to expect from a player with his mileage and injury history.  I mentioned Horford before, and he and Smith could both potentially make it if that team plays really well.  And then there’s Bargnani.  I’ve already written at length about what he needs to do to have a chance, and if plays the way he’s capable of he certainly will warrant consideration.  Nobody on this list is untouchable, and if the team success is there he will likely deserve it as much as anyone else listed here.  He may lose out to Pierce or Garnett, especially with the “lifetime achievement” factor in voting, but he may not if those guys are rested throughout the season in preparation for the playoffs, or if their record doesn’t reflect the talent level on that team.  His presence is hurt by the potential of Lowry to make the team.  Not many 7th or 8th seeds have 2 all-stars and Lowry is more likely to make it, in my opinion, especially with the amount if competition Bargnani could potentially have.  If any of the aforementioned players has a strong year, aside from Lopez, how could anyone possibly justify sending Andrea as Toronto’s 2nd all-star for a fringe playoff team over similarly talented players from much better teams?  He would have to really outperform them, but even then he may just hurt Lowry’s chances as whatever team success the Raptors have will be attributed to him.  Tough call, but I’d say if the Raptors are in the playoff hunt and exceeding expectations, Lowry will make the team and Bargnani will barely miss the cut, unless he improves upon even the legendary 13 game sample we saw from him at the beginning of last season.  As most of us are just hoping for him to match it, I don’t see that being very likely.

You’ll notice DeRozan wasn’t on this list either.  Now that I’ve gone through the competition, I just don’t see it happening.  The only way he makes it is if he drastically improves this season and supplants Lowry as our best player in the backcourt.  More likely though, he’ll fade more into the background with a scoring point guard like Lowry in the fold.  As is always the case with DeMar: maybe next year.

Thanks for reading.

  • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

    Ain’t no Raptors making the All Star game next season…….led by Andrea ‘No Star’ Bargnani best bet is TRoss in rookie/soph game.

    Also, I believe that BC gave Houston a slightly protected Lottery pick in exchange for Lowry…………..

    I see that you may have sucked up the Carmelo pr spin that BC laid out there to rationalize the signing of Fields coming off of a piss poor year last season- and doesn’t Bargnani stop the ball alot?

    Bosh was the Raps last All Star talent and there is nothing left on the roster from the CB transaction- CB TPE, do you know me?

    • GetDefensive

      1st off: do u have anything to say that may back up your claim that “Ain’t no Raptors making the All Star game next season”.  I said it’s possible on the condition that the Raps exceed expectations and are playing well, if that happens and they’re in the playoff picture, which guards do u think will make it in instead of Lowry?  I can see Bargnani being a long shot, but Lowry’s chances are legitimate, especially with Rose out.

      Thank u so much for clarifying that Lowry wasn’t actually acquired for a rack of basketballs and a flat of Canadian, I’ll try not to be so subtle with my sarcasm in the future.  My point was that it was an uneven trade for a borderline all-star player……………

      I said it’s posssible Carmelo’s isolation play affected Fields’ play.  That’s not PR spin considering he played alot better as a rookie without Melo, it IS a possibility.  U make a valid point concerning Bargnani, however, although I don’t he is nearly the ball-stopper Anthony is, he’s probably more on par with Amare.

      I don’t see how the Bosh TPE is relevant to the discussion, other than to reinforce that BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!  Duly noted.  Thanks again.

    • CJT

      No need to suck up and PR spin.  All you have to do is watch Melo play and the rest becomes plain. 

    • NyAlesund

       I don’ t understand you. It’s look like you really don’t want to see any Rapt making the All Star. Expecially Bargnani. In my modest opinion, he is the only one with the chance to make the All Star Game.
      Everyone knows this. Even you, the big AB’s fan……………………

      TRoss and Val for the rookie game is certain.

  • sitnonDfence

    Its a popularity contest. Even if Lowry and Bargs deserved it they would probably get left in the dark. I think that if we get someone voted in by the coaches as a reserve, that we all just call it a victory and move on.

    • Destro

      Meh its less so a pop contest than other all star games….Tough to name anyone who gets picked that doesnt deserve it..Diff is because theres so few all star positions alotted theres always 3-4 deserving guys left out…

  • KJ-B

    I agree it’s time for J Smoove’s “lifetime achievement award” now that JJ’s gone from ATL…

    • KJ-B

      a..s per Raptors–hmm…you didn’t mention injuries–cause short of Lowry leading the L in assists–#7 playing D and getting 20/10 or DeRozan averaging 25+…it AINT gonna happen!

      • GetDefensive

        Granted, not for Rose’s injury there probably wouldn’t be a spot for Lowry.  As it is however, and looking at the competition, I have a hard time finding enough guards to definitively keep him out provided that Raptors are playing well.  Even still, there’s a chance they play well and he still doesn’t make it, he’s not a sure thing either way.

  • Nilanka15

    I haven’t watched the allstar game in years.  I find the skills competition to be better TV because the participants are actually….you know….competing.

    • The Rub

      You’re missing out.

  • Daniel

    How can one be “the best point guard in Raptors’ history” without playing one minute for the Raptors? Shouldn’t this sentence be a conditional one: “he may become the best point guard in Raptors’ history”? When did people become nuts for a player who, in his best season, shot 40% from the field, had a DRTg of 104, had 6.6 assists and 2.8 turnovers per game, and ended the season as the back-up to Goran Dragic? We are talking about Kyle freakin’ Lowry and not CP3, Deron Williams or Rajon Rondo, right? What has Colangelo done to this fanbase?

    • Guest

       It’s called hope..some of us like to do that.   K Low is a very good PG and if you watched him dummy the Raps last year in T.O. by playing an average game by his standards, you would know that.   and despite the tunnel vision stats you’ve provided, I guarantee you will be in love with him after 10 games.   He may not be a top 5 PG, but he can contain top 5 PGs.

    • Theswirsky

      “What has Colangelo done to this fanbase?”

      Set the bar incredibly low. 

      • p00ka

        All the better for only snakes to slither under and be masters of their own depressed world.

        • Theswirsky

          as you well exemplify

          • CJT

            I know you are but what am I?

          • p00ka

            You bet!!! As I said, “only snakes…..”, as I find it easy, and a lot more enjoyable, to look over that bar and see some light, which is hard for those depressed doom and gloom snakes slithering under it. Here’s hoping you can evolve into something with legs, and enjoy seeing the progress this season.

            • The Rub

               http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m1tpxxNLed1qbnggp.jpg

      • FLUXLAND

        BOOOM!

        There it is! That is exactly it!

        Matt52 and the rest of the hopefuls are riding the “the only way we can now is up”  waive and fail to see this a classic BC move and setup.  Set the bar low, rinse and repeat.  Been doing it since his PHX days.

        (No offense to you Matt, but you have been on the forefront of the current edition of the movement)

        • Matt52

           Not quite.  The Raptors could regress, they could tread water, or they could go up.

          If you go on the last 4 years, then there is obviously little to be optimistic about.  I prefer not to drive the car looking in the rear view mirror though.  Looking ahead there is youth, untapped potential (that may or may not work out – TBD), financial flexibility, and an obvious new approach to decision making in the Raptor front office.  There is also a new CBA that appears to be helpful for a team in Toronto’s situation.

          BC has proven to be a brutal (for an extreme) to an unlucky (for an optimistic) GM – somewhere in the middle is likely the correct answer in the last 4 seasons based on record.  People looking to the past point out the last 4 seasons but the first 2 the Raps were a playoff team and from BC’s days in PHX he built a very good team there as well.  If BC has been both good and bad in the past, then why is the assumption that he will only be bad in the future?

          As for setting the bar low, I can’t speak for Colangelo.  I don’t think he is setting the bar low though.  For once I see him promoting the organization – as is his job! – without the grandiose expectation setting.  He is president of an organization that relies on selling tickets for a large portion of their revenue – imagine a concert promoter saying, “Yeah come out to the show.  Madonna can’t sing for shit and she gets all political now…. but trust me your couple of hundred dollars will not go to waste!” Yeaaaah. 

          Speaking for myself, anything less than competing for a playoff spot is a failure.  Considering the Raptors went in to a total rebuild 2 years ago, I consider this quite a lofty goal.  Even OKC took 4-5 years before they competed for a playoff spot from the start of their rebuild.  Prior to the past 2 seasons the goal/expectation was always to make the playoffs.  There has been a lot of high goals/expectations that have been met with disappointment. 

          So in final reply to your post:

          BOOOM!

          There it is! That is exactly it!

          FLUXLAND and the rest of the hopelesses are riding the “the only way we
          can move now is further down”  wave and fail to see this as a classic reversal setup. 
          Set the bar unrealistically high with immediate championships or annual franchise talent draft picks the only goal that matters, be extremely disappointed and fail to enjoy the experience of watching a franchise grow – rinse and repeat.  Been doing it since his arrival on the sports scene.

          (No offense to you FLUXLAND, but you have been on the forefront of the current edition of the movement)

          • FLUXLAND

            Cute stuff, you could have done better with the last line though come on. : )

            I understand and have been reading your stance during the entire summer, I am aware of your position and logic. Don’t feel singled out, I used your name to encompass that position and stance as a whole from people who share you view.

            I just wanted to point out, that all that considered, we have been here before in some way with BC, and your argument is founded on a lot of things going right and many ifs.  Based on his record (regardless of coach, which is another discussion) there is realistically little reason to believe a lot of those if and maybes will play out as you and co. optimistically envision. 

            This was already pointed out to you by a poster in your “give me arguments” forum thread, and he said the exact same things as the character in the comments section you were battling for days, except this time it was in a manner that was more pleasing to you, so you chose to agree to see the point although not agree with it.  I’m pretty much saying the same thing, except also adding that this is classic BC even from his PHX days, not just the last 4 years or TO (I don’t know why you chose to use the last 4 years).  You have to look at his whole body of work (leopard and spots and all that, your BC poster should read 20 years in the L, gets nothing but sales) and if, as you say, he’s been good and bad, he’s..average? At best?  His “good” moves are bandages for “bad” ones, which leads us to…

            It’s not about setting the bar unrealistically high, it’s about not making continual middle of the pack and league inconsequential moves and pretending, because of all the movement and “youth” and all the things you mention, as if a contender is being built; always conveying a feeling  about being that one thing away from the chip or on the right path to it, when that never actually translates in the record or on the court. The bar talk was not about setting one as a fan, it was about BC doing it for the fans with his work, not words: his work has created this situation (East basement punching bag and gross record), he’s shaken up the roster (again!!) and it’s sort of easy and obvious, if not naive, to say,: There is no other way to go but, hence we can only be optimistic and hopeful, any other thought is irrational and full of “hater talk”. Again, Average BC does not inspire that feeling of success. Not for all of us, I suppose.  

            The talk of new front office approach is also smoke and mirrors, as always. Those are all still BC yes-men. In a very short time, all the talk of defense and culture change are gone and we are back to offensive chatter, noise about outside shooting, running, killer second unit etc. It’s like they used the half ass tanking and shortened season, where they held the ball until last second and hacked anyone withing sneezing distance to make you think this is a defensive team, then flipped the roster and now we just need to add offense. Really??  For crying out out loud, people are worried about JV’s offensive moves and contributions, as if his D and rebounding and forgone conclusions in the NBA.  And speaking of BC and his propaganda job, it’s funny how after every loss last year it was all “You wait until JV and that pick”, then the kid plays in the Olympics and in a matter of day it was a full out “Lower you expectations for the real no.2 pick” blitz.

            And where is the franchise growth you speak of? I do not see how you call any of this as franchise growth, isn’t that a little premature? At best you are mistaking potential (that should be taken with a grain of salt) with actual. OKC has a HOF on their team, any comparisons are a waste of time and foolish, really. 

            In final reply: you argument holds little water, historically speaking. You shouldn’t act as if the skeptics, regardless of how they present their argument, are any less rational or less of fan than you are.

            • Matt52

              I stopped reading part way through the third paragraph where you tell me what I think and what I agree with.  I then skipped to the last paragraph and found more of the same. 

              You’ve got an opinion.  Enjoy it.  Embrace it.  Exchange it.  But please, leave what I think out of your opinions. 

              Oh yeah, and always remember to drive your car with your eyes squarely on the road ahead with no more than a glance in the rear view mirror at a time.

              • FLUXLAND

                Umm..what? Were you so blinded by rage by the 3rd paragraph that your reading comprehension failed you? Wow.  (Not  sure how a discussion takes place when I cannot reply to your opinion aka what you are thinking aka what you typed.)

                “so you chose to agree to see the point although not agree with it.”

                Where does it say in that 3rd paragraph or that sentence you agreed to anything, Matt?

                As per “agree to see the point”, as in agree to see their line of thinking – your words
                were:

                “This is another good post. I don’t necessarily agree but I appreciate the time put in to constructive insights.

                and

                “More importantly I asked for people who aren’t feeling optimistic on the
                year to give reasons. I was attempting to get another perspective and
                possibly new insights.”

                When you say “great post” one assumes you now “got perspective” and see the point”, or is that a huge leap in logic that you somehow twist into me telling you what you think?

                Right now I’m going with you failed to read.

                And in the last paragraph, I said you act. Not you are or think.

                Always remember, Matt – reading is essential. 

                As per your reply in general to the points your raised and I replied to… weak.

                Stay in the forums, where you you belong. Out here you and your opinions may get called out and have to resort to you type of weak ass reply.

                • Matt52

                   Sorry, no rage.  More indifference.

                  And are you taking quotes from the forum to post here?  Why don’t you reply in the forums?  Does context not mean anything to you?  I’m not a professional ‘weak’ judge but I would strongly vote for this as weak.

                • p00ka

                  FLUXLAND a.k.a. theswirsky won’t stop until he has the last word and feels he’s won, however f’d up the “win” might be to most semi-conscious people.

                  The only way to deal with him is to be have as twisted a sense of humour as me and get some chuckles from seeing him flail away and go into one raging rant after another over his “reality”.

                  As far as quoting you from the forums, hahahaha, hell I’d bet he can quote stuff on you, and me, and others, going back months (he has), as out of context as they may be, to support his arguments. Venture down this path and it will happen at every turn, until he “wins”.

                • FLUXLAND

                   LOL… who’s “so psyched out that he keeps seeing me in another poster” now? Rattle,rattle. 

                  Just remember that memory extends to the Raptors, when you ask people for sources and proof of events that actually transpired.

                  Nothing to do with winning, but explaining “bar is set low” while you’re busy writing clever lines about snakes and bright lights while contributing zippo.

                   

                • FLUXLAND

                  Ah, indifference. Right. Funny, didn’t detect that in you original reply.

                  Context? It was all there, but you didn’t read.

                  “realistically little reason to believe a lot of those if and maybes will play out as you and co. optimistically envision.”

                  I followed that with reference to this:

                  http://raptorsrepublic.com/forums/showthread.php?8627-Feeling-down-on-the-Raptors-Please-tell-me-why/page4

                  (sorry, I called it “give me arguments”), in part, as a reply to your reply to me. That you didn’t read.

                  And now the conversation is the forums? Really? As if the rest of my post had nothing to do with your reply, at all?

                  So, you stomp your feet around and then walk away? Gotta run and meet p00ka at the sandbox?

                • Matt52

                   Great.  Another crazy.

                  When was that thread started?  Ahhhh, right, September 9th.

                  The post you linked, when was that wrote?  Ahhhh, right, September 15th.

                  What is today?  Ahhhh, right, September 29th. 

                  That conversation is old and the purpose of the thread was achieved.  I have insight in to why people are down on the Raptors and certainly have a new perspective, however, it doesn’t mean I have to agree with it.  I don’t feel the need to discuss it any further especially in a location not of the original and 2-3 weeks later.

                  It never ceases to amaze me how many fanatics (because that is what most of us are) put so much time and effort in to analyzing/wishing/hoping/praying the Raptors and Colangelo fail.  I get it, you believe Colangelo will never build a winner in Toronto.  It must be extremely disappointing to put this much time and effort in to something you love but have no hope for.  I can also understand how people who see hope and optimism where you see despair and hopelessness would really get under your skin – apologies.

                  I hope cheering for the Raptors brings you whatever it is you are looking for.

                • FLUXLAND

                   You must be dense.

                  No one said you agreed to anything.  The post is still very relevant, regardless of when it was created. Stand by what you said and  don’t run away like a child after you speak your peace but cannot wait for a rebuttal that pokes holes in your arguments.

                  Weak and sad. No substance, only personal attacks and telling me what I am thinking. Hypocrite much?

                • Matt52

                   *yawn*

                  Try posting in the forums on a thread originally posted in the forums within a reasonable time frame of the latest discussion within the thread.

                  You are correct I did make an assumption of your opinion.  Guilty.  Apologies.  Enjoy watching the Raptors this season.

                • Matt52

                   Oh right, forgot to mention.  The thread asked for people’s opinions.  I did not debate anyone’s opinion in the thread.  Seems kind of dickish to ask for people’s views and then attempt to tear them a new one.  Again, not the purpose of the thread which it appears you do not seem to understand.

                  I read lots of constructive perspectives that differ from my own that helped shed new insight.  Yet it doesn’t mean I have to agree just like no one clearly has to agree with my perspective.

    • GetDefensive

      As far as talent he IS better than any PG we’ve had, but perhaps I could’ve worded it better.  Up till now Jose has played better than any other PG in Raptors history, and I would argue that Lowry’s best season trumps Jose’s, although that’s a matter of opinion and you’re free to disagree.

      • GetDefensive

        In no way do I think he’s all that special either, it’s more off a testament to the lack of talent we’ve had at PG throughout the years.  Lowry excels in areas we haven’t seen before so it’s really hard to compare he and Jose.  Yes, Jose has historically been a better shooter, although Lowry’s 37% 3pt shooting is above average.  A nearly 2.5 asst/to ratio isn’t bad but I realize it doesn’t compare with the numbers Jose puts up in that regard.  He does force more turnovers as well, though.  He is a FAR superior defender than Jose, he balances that poor FG% (although he did shoot nearly 43% the season before, when he was healthier) with plenty of FTs, and he rebounds better than any PG in the league besides Rondo.  They each have their strengths, Lowry has less weaknesses.  Different strokes for different folks I guess.

        • Daniel

          I haven’t watched enough of Lowry to have a definite evaluation of his defense. I read though enough bits and pieces from Rockets’ fans stating that Lowry had been pulled off games due to his poor defense. His DRTg is nothing to write home about even though I admit stats don’t really capture defensive proficiency. Another red flag is his quarrel with McHale which I don’t know if it’s due to his defensive mistakes or offensive mistakes. People keep saying he’s a “bulldog defender” which is a cop-out at NBA level. It may mean something at street basketball however in NBA could mean he has a high foul rate or that he’s gambling a lot forcing a few steals and turnovers. In the process though he may be compromising the entire defensive set. Remember, we were 29th in offense and 13th in defense last season. By all accounts Lowry is a worse offensive player and a better defender (until proven otherwise) than Jose so his acquisition doesn’t really complement our current strengths and weaknesses, doesn’t it?
          To me he’s just a career backup along the likes of Jarrett Jack and Bayless. His best season offensive numbers are worse than Jose’s worst season numbers except FT’s. It’s OK to have hope for a breakout season however hope is different than optimism or realism as a state of mind. To me people’s reaction is closer to delusional than anything else.

          • p00ka

            That’s an awful lot of “I haven’t watched enough” followed by “bits and pieces from Rockets’ FANS” / “I don’t know” / “It may mean” / “could mean” / “he may be”, to be declaring he’s a career backup and that others are delusional.

            • GetDefensive

              +1

            • CJT

              Maybe “delusional” doesn’t mean what he thinks it means?

            • FLUXLAND

              How does that change any of the points he raises? Those are all legit concerns, in the end implying that even if Lowry is an upgrade over Jose at the point, team wise it’s likely lateral move with minimal or marginal overall impact on the record? That would make him a Jack or Bayless, role wise. Not to mention, Toronto is not where PGs come to be made.

              And of course, here you are again, every post with no opinion on the subject at hand, only running around like the fan cop you are, crying about people typing things you do not like or their form.

              • p00ka

                Hmmm, I’m not telling anybody about what they can/should post, but I AM the fan cop? Look in the mirror and read your last paragraph aloud.

                Beyond that, there’s a reason for the reply button, without rules attached, to my knowledge, to what parts of a post are to be addressed. Again, who is trying to be a cop?

                “How does that change any of the points he raises?”

                Well, it doesn’t change a thing, other than highlighting that when one starts off with ‘I haven’t watched enough of Lowry”, then proceeds with a bunch of “maybe”, “could be”, “I don’t know” declarations, that someone off the street that knows nothing could make, one is hardly justified in calling those that differ “delusional”,,,,, in my opinion, whether you think I’m allowed to share that or not

                • FLUXLAND

                  What on Earth? ” that someone off the street that knows nothing could make”

                  What are you saying? Because he chose to present the statements as a non Houston expert, the latter, factual, parts of them are not true? Is he lying about those things? Are you claiming they are untrue and didn’t happen?

                  And what else did you do? See the word delusional and start running around like a senile senior citizen? Did he not explain how he got there?  Advising that it’s borderline irrational to arrive at their conclusion of greatness based on historical fact?

                  In return you offered nothing. Zero. Other than your displeasure of his opinion, zilch.  Nothing about the current discussion, at all.  No rules here, just calling you out, as promised; because we are all still waiting on you to enlighten the masses with you self proclaimed superior basketball acumen, the same one that’s lead your daughter to glorious basketball heights. Why are you holding out your genius Pooka?  The masses are being deprived, how is that fair? And do you realize the Raptors front office could be missing out on your wisdom and guidance? This is a loss on all fronts, while you choose to waste your words on this.

                  You are def. the cop. Read you posts, pal.  Just whining about “doom and gloom” and how you will “choose to look at the bright lights”, as if anyone here cares about how you choose to cheer, while implying any other way is not “true fan” like.

                • CJT

                  Let’s simplify for you.  How can someone who hasn’t seen any games or footage form an opinion about a players ability.  He is basing it on some fan blog’s posts.  For all he knows the fans on that site could be Houston’s version of Gotstogo or some other such wellspring of knowledge.  Even if you and I disagree on a lot of things, I can tell by your posts that you watch ball and that your opinion is based on your experience.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Simplify for me?! Let’s see if you can even follow along.

                  “How can someone who hasn’t seen any games or footage form an opinion about a players ability.”

                  Umm, not sure if you read his post at all but he did not say he did not see ANY, he said he did not see enough. What may or may not be enough for someone is for no one to claim right or wrong.

                  But not to stop at viewing, he implies he’s “read enough”, so one can take it as “average H fan would agree on” thoughts. And then he mentions stats and immeasurable intangibles.  So, I’m guessing some research has been done, any opinion here is valid, regardless of what you and I think of it. It’s not outlandish or unfounded. It’s logical.

                  The question becomes how does someone completely ignore historical fact, or only draw the best bits out of them and proclaim the team is unquestionably better off? Or ignore every other time a player was brought in and songs and dance were played over their soon to be tremendous contributions to team, based on some sort of statistical suggestion, only to result in the awesome posted records. What is that based on? Blind optimism, pure hope, positive speculation, lacking and ignoring any sort of logic? Dare I say delusion?  And if so, that’s fine. However, let’s not dismiss someone’s (different) opinion because it doesn’t fit your definition of valid; that said, and all considered, his approach is far more rational. I don’t see how that’s arguable and should be attacked or questioned, unless he’s misstated something, factually.

                • p00ka

                  “What may or may not be enough for someone is for no one to claim right or wrong.”

                  You seem to have missed the point that Daniel himself said he “hasn’t seen enough”, so he’s the one who judged himself on “enough”, with the “not enough” reflected in the many “could be’s”, “maybes” etc.. I don’t have a problem with people spouting such babble on it’s own, until they paint the rest of us fans with the “delusional” label. That’s getting personal, unlike your farcical “fan cop” rants.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Delusional because you are ignoring facts and pretending things never happened. He’s seen enough to formulate an opinion, something you incapable of unless your read it somewhere AP related, first.

                  For someone suggesting people to grow legs, you sure need to grow a spine in a discussion. Stop hiding Pooka, flex your “anytime anywhere bball talk” muscle and genius. 

                • CJT

                  Daniel is the one who said he hadn’t seen enough to judge.  That is why I find it illogical.  If someone was doing “research” on fan sites does that count as research. He does use stats to back up his points I grant you that. I did not state any opinion about KL, so it is not that he doesn’t fit my opinion.  I am in wait and see mode.  History is history today is today.  Let’s see how it plays out.  that’s all.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Again, his method is irrelevant. Any observations based on historical performance grants validity. You cannot say “How can someone who hasn’t seen any games or footage form an opinion about a players ability.” when that is not true or dismiss those performances in any way – today is today, but as much things change they stay the same.

                • CJT

                  Also implying something is a pretty weak way to garner credibility for an argument.  

                • FLUXLAND

                  Sure. Let’s also ignore how he brought up valid points in the spirit of discussion (not argument). Implied and suggested based on facts and observation..but be that as it may, let’s dismiss them because (copyright Pooka, ESQ & nobel laureate in literature) “it dosn’t fit the current script” / agenda and  positive movement. Or is that now “accelerated” movement, as per BC?

                • p00ka

                  Gawd, you’re one pathetic angry young man. How do you see calling everybody that doesn’t agree with him “delusional” is in “spirit of discussion”

                • Daniel

                  That’s rich. I played more basketball than you ever watched. I’ve seen plenty of “Kyle Lowry”s in 30 years of watching b-ball. i remember I watched Memphis and Houston while he played there however he was undescript to me. In any case, as any other human being in any professional capacity, the opinions of people around him/her can be scrutinized for credibility and judgements can be made. Of course, my opinion will be much stronger once I’ll evaluate him for one full season.

                • CJT

                  Hey man, I don’t begrudge anyone his opinion.  I respect that you have the opinion that you do despite that it may differ from mine.  The issue is the language you used to convey it.  Maybe you were trying to be humble or something but you are the one that made it sound like you were unsure of the factual accuracy of your statements.  
                  You may very well have played some ball, i don’t give a shit to be honest, the fact that you run pick up at the Y doesn’t mean that all your opinions are correct.  They may turnout to be they may not.  Let’s wait and see.

                • p00ka

                  LMAO, man you get wound up something fierce over what some anonymous person says on the internet. I hope it’s as good for you as it is for me, cuz you get downright entertaining. Perhaps it’s just part of keeping your anger management issues safe, and that’s a good thing!

                  “crying about people typing things you do not like or their form. ”

                  I didn’t do any crying about form, but that’s exactly what you’re doing. As I said, look in the mirror, lad, since “delusional” is the word of the day, presented (or learned?) by Daniel and FLUXLAND.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Basketball content: zero.  Pooka troll status: confirmed. 

                  Carry on.

          • GetDefensive

            I would say his biggest weakness is shot selection, but I would hope with better offensive players around him that should improve.  Defensively he gives a great effort and has good lateral quickness, he’s strong which helps him against bigger PGs but he’s not very long for challenging shots.  Overall, he’s definitely an above average defender at a position we’ve typically been burned at in the past, and I wouldn’t necessarily say being ranked 13th defensively is a strength.  If this gets us into the top 5-8 range, and Bargnani returning, as well as Jose boltsering our bench (which could be HUGE, more of our bench players are in need of a distributor to help them score), gives us a significant boost to our offense, then we could realistically be looking at a playoff berth.
            Also, he’s not much of a downgrade on Jose offensively.  His ability to penetrate opens up all sorts of opportunities that don’t necessarily show up in the box score.  Jose is basically the sum of his stats and there isn’t much more to his game.  Lowry does subtle things that help win games; keeping his man out of the lane, getting opposing bigs in foul trouble, getting the team extra possessions with his rebounding, and getting “hockey assists” (making the right pass which leads to another pass for an assist).  Jose is given too much credit, IMO, for playing it safe.  Just cuz he has a good percentages and asst/to ratio doesn’t mean he’s forcing the defense to react or leaving a noticeable imprint on the game.
            Another thing, Jose is at an age where he will only decline from here, Lowry will continue to improve.  If we’re looking at them as being close skill-wise, with Jose having the edge offensively and Lowry defensively, then Lowry was a great pickup for this team going forward.

            • Daniel

              Wow, what a load of crap. Look, Jose’s gone so I don’t even think about him anymore as being part of the Raptors. The addition of Lucas convinced me that Colangelo has at least one or two moves in mind involving Jose being traded to another team. Jose will be fine.
              Lowry’s ability to penetrate means squat if he doesn’t know how to dish it for an open man or the open man doesn’t make shots. We had quite a few PG’s of those and it didn’t help us at all. Our bread and butter is PnR and PnP where Lowry is very weak. DeRozan should be the slasher and we need a PG who facilitates for the others because we don’t have any other playmaker on our roster. We get no boost offensively from Lowry.
              Defensively he’s short and he gambles a lot. In NBA opponents play PnR 60% of the total possessions so his ability to stay with his man doesn’t do anything for us: there are other skills needed to defend PnR than what he’s showed so far.
              While I agree there are players whose contribution is not captured in metrics (like Garbo for us recently), in general this is a BS argument for a bad or average player. Lowry is at best average with some potential for improvement.
              Regarding your statement that he may become an All-Star due to lack of other worthy candidates, I don’t even know what to say. Any starter guard in the East has at least that same chances at an All-Star appearance than a career backup player. 
              Anyway, soon the proof will be in the pudding. The training camp is around the corner and the new season will start in one month. I have the same feeling reading about the Raptors as I had in March reading about the Blue Jays. I swear that media people and vocal fans are either MLSE employees or scalpers as I can find no rational reason for the optimism.

              • GetDefensive

                Ok, u admitted earlier that u haven’t seen much of him play to make a definite judgement, yet you’re confident enough in what you’ve read from some Rockets fans to be condascending and state we’re all delusional and irrational for having a little faith in the guy?  What makes u a better expert then me, for example (and I’m no expert), when I HAVE seen him play quite a bit?  Is it cuz you’re smarter than everyone?  Congratulations!

                Of all the non-locks for the all-star game, name 1 guard who is definitively better and will have the team success to justify his selection?  Like I said in the article, maybe Ellis if the Bucks play well, but he is a major liability on the defensive end.  Maybe Irving or Wall, but I doubt they’ll have the team success unless they really play out of their minds and get in anyway.  Other than them, can u find ONE other starting PG in the East that deserves to be in the discussion?  Probably not.  The point of the piece was to look at the Raptors chances of making the all-star team, I stated that he has a very good chance if the team plays well.  Why does that upset u so much?  It doesn’t mean I think he’s Rajon Rondo all of a sudden cuz he might make the team.  You’re ridiculous man.  I find no rational reason for your pessimism.

                • GetDefensive

                  Another thing, yes DeMar SHOULD be the slasher, but he isn’t.  He doesn’t have the ball-handling or the aggressiveness.  I believe Lowry compliments him quite well actually, in the sense that he won’t be asked to do too much and can regain some efficiency.  I’m starting to look at DeMar the same way u look at Jose, like he’s gone already it just hasn’t happened yet.  No point in building the rest of the team to suit him, let’s worry about making the TEAM better, not DeMar.  He’s been coddled enough.  Just cuz KL won’t help him get to 20ppg doesn’t mean he’s a bad fit, it means DeMar simply isn’t a 20ppg scorer unless you’re willing to feed him an obscene amount of touches.  The logic behind picking your PG to fit in with DeMar at this point is nonsense.  Who fits in better with Ross?  How bout we worry about that?

                • Daniel

                  You don’t have to believe me. The Houston organizations discarded him to make room for Jeremy freakin’ Lin, who played 20 games as a starter in NBA. Organizations don’t get rid of talent with an excellent contract like Lowry’s. I trust Morey and McHale more than any knucklehead on the blogosphere with a keyboard.

                • FLUXLAND

                  I agree on Morey and McHale. I don’t understand why this is so easily dismissed, like it never happened.

                  It’s the same thing I was saying about Bayless before he played a game in a Rap uni.  Let’s recall the aspirations and  proclamations the fanbase had about that guy.

                • GetDefensive

                  Ya, cuz that organization’s just swimming in success right now.  I’ve never been all that sold on McHale’s basketball intelligence quite frankly.  And I know I’m just some knucklehead with a keyboard but he makes more questionable decisions than not.  Just cuz MJ was greatest player of all time doesn’t make him a great GM, that talent doesn’t always translate off the court.  Lowry and McHale didn’t see eye to eye, Morey backed his coach over his player.  Fine, thats respectable, but in no way is it a knock on Lowry the player.  They got fleeced on that deal cuz everyone knew he wanted out, happens all the time (happened to us with Vince).
                  Let’s just agree to disagree man I can’t argue with u anymore.  Don’t take this as a concession by any means, I just finally understand that you’ll never stop.

                • FLUXLAND

                  “I’ve never been all that sold on McHale’s basketball intelligence quite frankly.”

                  The hockey reference earlier.. but this… yikes!

                • GetDefensive

                  Everyone who’s played professionally is NOT a basketball genius, and the NBA 30 yrs ago was a completely different game.  And some people who haven’t played pro MAY actually know what they’re talkin about.  U try to sound so high and mighty but u just come off like an ass.  There’s a reason KG never got anywhere most of his career in Minnesota. McHale IS that reason.
                  And no, I’m not sayin I know more than him, but sometimes it is easier to see things when you’re not involved in the situation.  I believe he has made poor decisions throughout his front office/coaching careers and most people would agree with me.

                • FLUXLAND

                  Could have said all that without the high and mighty ass line. Regardless..

                  Feel as you may about his abilities in the front office role or as a coach (latter seems premature), I still  don’t see what compels you to question his basketball IQ. That’s, just, …. ignorant.

                  The Minny/KG discussion is multifaceted and the boxes are too small. Safe to say to say, stating McH is THE reason is ignoring he IS the one that drafted  the first HS kid since the 70s when everyone called it ill advised and he ultimately orchestrated his BST landing, I’m sure there’s no beef between them. You can choose to blame McH ONLY, if you choose but that’s not reality.

                • GetDefensive

                  Fine, A BIG reason, not THE reason.  And I never said they had beef.  Man did all that really need clarification? Do u feel like u won this argument now? Can u finally sleep at night in peace knowing we got that sorted out?? Jeez

              • Destro

                Honestly ur talking out ur ass and are showing you have never watched the NBA in ur life….Please stop,your embarrasing urself…

            • Destro

              Last paragraph is utter fairytales B
              They are not equal skill wise and Jose is not better on either side of the ball…Go look at stats if you want breh..KL was averaging 17 a game before he got hurt…

              • GetDefensive

                I did say I don’t think there’ll be much dropoff offensively with Lowry.  And when I said if we look at them being close skill-wise with Jose having the edge offensively, that was more of a compromise just to try to stop arguing with Daniel.  I really don’t think u can say definitely who would have a greater impact offensively on this team until u see them play the games.  I, for one, would expect Lowry’s PPG to hover around 15 with a bump in assists on this team.  Depending on what you’re looking for in a PG, u might prefer Jose’s 11ppg/9apg and efficiency to Lowrys potential 15ppg/8apg.  Frankly, with everything else KL brings to the table, I think he’s definitely the better player.  But that’s just my opinion, I can see how someone might disagree and was just trying to keep it civil.

                • Destro

                  Stop it duke i have watched Jose play here for 6 years i definitely can say Lowry brings ALOT more to the table…Jose’s offensive is impact is so cot damn minimal YET its always championed as being so much more than it actually is lol…..

                • GetDefensive

                  I think I’m agreeing with u, just not quite as strongly lol but I’ll stop it I guess?

  • No disrespect

    Lowry will get in if he makes the raps relivent again

    • arsenalist

      Heh

  • Destro

    This site needs new blog writers..some are ok but too many are like this guy and are intellectually dishonest when writing about certain players…If you cant leave ur personal agenda or bias out of this you look stupid and do this site a disservice….

    I find it funny as hell Lowry is getting all of this praise as the phoenix rising leader of this team as a player that just arrived here….What does that honestly say about Andrea,when 6 yrs in and ur still not considered a leader of this team….

    It says sumn :)

    • The Rub

      Ya if these guys want to write with a bias they should do it on a blog and not on a serious publication like here.

      • Destro

        Casm i get it but this is a blog….

    • GetDefensive

      Sorry man, didn’t think I was being biased to say Lowry has a chance.  The all-star depth at the guard positions in the East just isn’t there this year.  Look around….  There are a great many people other than me who thought Lowry should’ve already made an all-star team, and he certainly was playing like it before injuries.  If he can get back to that, and the team makes a noticeable jump in the standings with him the primary reason, then why not?
      And I was pretty clear Bargnani’s chances are pretty slim unless we basically saw the best Andrea we’ve ever seen and the Raptors played really well.  While both of those things may be unlikely, it’s not unreasonable to expect that if they did happen he might have a shot, albeit at the expense of Lowry’s chances as Bargnani would, at that point, probably get all the credit if he’s playing that well.
      Oh, and this is the 1st time I’ve written anything here, that’s why it says guest post.  Don’t drag down the regulars cuz u think I suck at this, I’m just a fan with a keyboard like anyone else.  If u can do better, go for it.  It’ll give us all something to read and discuss while we’re waiting for the season to start.

  • MJ

    Guys more likely to make the all star team ahead of any raptor (outside the starters you posted):

    Horford, Smith, Johnson, Williams, Pierce, Garnett, Wall, Irving, Chandler, Stoudemire, Granger, Hibbert, Paul George, Rose, Noah, Ellis, Jennings, Lopez, Monroe.

    • The Rub

       Monroe is getting in over Hibbert this year.

      • Destro

        Monroe is gonna beast this year….MIP fantasy POY in my books

      • Lorenzo

        No…

      • GetDefensive

        The biggest thing dragging down a lot of those guys, Monroe included, will be team success.  Coaches don’t usually vote in players from 13th place teams unless they’re really, really special.  Is Monroe so much better than Hibbert to justify making it over him when there’ll probably be 10 teams in between them in the standings?  Monroe may very well be the better player, just like Kyrie Irving could very well have a better season than Lowry, but coaches reward winning more than anything.  That’s why any Raptor having a chance will depend greatly on having a successful season.

    • Destro

      KG,Granger,George,Noah,Ellis NOPE

      I like Lowry alot i could see a spike in his numbers but it’ll be damn near impossible with the guys already in there plus Irving,Wall,Jennings knocking on the door….Hes gonna have to damn near average 19/9 and play on a winning team to even be considered…let alone make it…

    • GetDefensive

      I listed Horford or Smith (I don’t think BOTH will make it), Johnson, Williams, probably Pierce or Garnett, and possibly Wall or Irving if they really have breakout seasons and their teams exceed expectations.  I don’t think there’s any chance Indiana gets 3 all-stars, even 2 isn’t a sure thing by any means.  I very much doubt Lopez makes it as the 3rd or 4th best player on his own team.  Rose is injured, there are better candidates at centre than Noah, Ellis and Jennings will hurt each others’ numbers and the team success may not be there, Chandler u could make a case for but Stoudemire would have to bounce back in a big way, and Monroe plays for a crappy team but its possible he plays so well it doesnt matter.  There’s reasons for and against everyone, there isn’t a guard there u listed besides Johnson and Williams who is a sure thing over Lowry.  He’ll have the opportunity to put up near all-star numbers with exceptional defence on a team that could challenge for a lower playoff seed and he’s probably the best player on the Raptors.  Maybe Ellis, but if the Raps are spankin em in the standings then probably not.  I could see Irving improving enough and if the Cavs play well, fine, but Jennings? No. Wall? Doubtful. George? Maybe, if Granger gets traded. Rose? Definitely, if he wasn’t injured.  There really isn’t that much depth for high quality guards in the East.  There just isn’t.

  • wes mantooth

    bynum…..ball

  • GetDefensive

    Lol haven’t found many on my side here Arse, I almost feel like writing something else just to piss everyone off… lol

    • GetDefensive

      Just kidding, I like the discussion, a little surprised that everyone’s so down on Lowry though

      • p00ka

        Not everyone. just the usual few suspects who throw darts at just about anything that doesn’t fit their script.

        • FLUXLAND

          Hahahahaha.  Now, that’s rich coming from you. “throw darts at just about anything that doesn’t fit their script” 

          At the very least, you are always good for a laugh.

          • CJT

            He throws darts at dart throwers.  to be clear.

            • FLUXLAND

              What he perceives as dart throwers because it doesn’t fit his script, is what you mean. To be perfectly clear.

              • p00ka

                ” it doesn’t fit his script”

                Even using my lines now! I wish I could be flattered, but I’d have to see something that I admire in you first, so I’ll just chuckle. :)

                • FLUXLAND

                   “my lines”… I’d type more but you ego is getting in the way.  Ladies and gets, the first man to string those words together.  You are reaching Shakespearean level of contribution to the English language.

                  Please, I’m using “your lines” so you can understand what is being said; alternatively, you twist and contort to suit your need and without addressing the actual subject at hand. 

              • CJT

                Agreed, who he perceives to be dart throwers.  don’t care about the script part.

        • Daniel

          How many Raptors games have you watched live? Did you ever put your money where your mouth is? Colangelo betrayed the trust of an entire city. I feel personally betrayed by this sneak salesman.
          If you really believe the Raptors will win 35, 40 games this season, why don’t you make a ton of money betting against the Vegas line? Bunch of losers, Internet warriors who sell “hope” and “promise” from the basement of their parents. Kids unable to carry an argument without recourse to a personal label.
          Let me ask you: are you buying the organization’s script? What about last season? Or the previous one?

          • p00ka

            Feel better now that you had your name calling snit and got all that betrayal anger out?

            “unable to carry an argument without recourse to a personal label.”

            Just a gentle reminder : You started all this with calling everyone that doesn’t agree with you delusional, which is near as personal as it gets.

          • CJT

            You know this is entertainment right?  Why on earth would you feel personally betrayed by BC?  That just sounds so ridiculous.  Do you feel betrayed when your favourite wrestler turns in to the bad guy too.  Come on. Do you have a gambling problem or something and BC has cost you your house, wife and kids?  Lighten up Daniel. 

            • GetDefensive

              Well said, I also like how we must not know anything unless we go to games or bet in Vegas… umm cuz i live all the way across the country and i got my 2 houses to pay for buddy, but I guess we’re all just losers living in our parents basements, give me a break man. u and flux need to start your own chat room and not let anyone in unless they agree with u, that way no one will hurt your feelings and make u feel remember the time BC “betrayed” an entire city, breaking your poor, poor heart in the process lol this stuff is so ridiculous its hilarious

              • GetDefensive

                minus “feel” from that sentence…

                • GetDefensive

                  PS- Just heard from an Italian fan that Bargnani’s winning MVP this season.  I’ve barely seen him play but I will back that statement will all my heart and if anyone doesn’t agree they’re losers.  That is all.

                • 511

                  I gotta say … I’m loving the
                  enthusiasm and fight, GD. If you can’t have a little of that now, at the
                  beginning of the season when we haven’t lost a game yet (haha, but only partly
                  a jk) and when we’ve got, what looks (to me) like the most interesting mix of
                  players we’ve had in a LOT of years, along with a coaching staff that have
                  shown (beyond question in my mind) that they CAN teach things that players need
                  to do to compete in this league, well … when can you have it? 

                  Don’t let the naysayers get
                  to you. That’s just what they do. And even as they say what they say, I’d wager
                  large they’re secretly hoping that this team surprises everybody with spirited,
                  competitive play on the floor this year. That’d be a good start and from there,
                  who knows? Good job stirring up the dust! 

            • sleepz

              I can’t speak for others but as a fan of the team, hoping to support a competitive team built the right way, I feel like BC is simply not to be trusted.

              His track record in Toronto is so scattered that I’m not sure what his vision is for team building anymore.

              The longer he stays with the organization, the more rhetoric he spews.

              • CJT

                I think that is a fair statement.  I guess I find it a little humorous that anyone would think he would say otherwise.  He has a mixed track record here without question but the guy can’t get a break.  If he tries to be optimistic with his comments he gets fried, if he tells us that the year is going to be a struggle, like last year, he gets fried.  Not sure what he should say to make people happy. 

            • Destro

              Tbh Hoe-gans swerve to NWO deeply affected me personally breh…

      • sleepz

        I don’t think fans are down on Lowry as a player.

        I just think they have a hard time seeing him making the all-star team.  

        • Nilanka15

          If Antonio Davis can make the allstar team, anything’s possible 😉

          • Lorenzo

            If Jamaal Magloire can make the all-star team…

  • Statement

    A little while ago, Liston wrote an article which indicated that the top two statistics for judging how a player performed or was likely to perform were Wins Produced and ASPM (this is of course only from publicly available information, which Alex Rucker says is pretty crappy, but nevertheless, we’ll use it).

    Calderon WP/48 last year = .208 (.099 is average)
    Lowry WP/48 last year = .189 

    Small (statistically insignificant??) advantage to Jose.

    ASPM (a revamped plus/minus trying to account for other players on the court)

    Calderon ASPM: 1.13. Offensive ASPM = 2.36, Defensive ASPM = 1.24 (this is bad)

    Lowry: 3.94.  Offensive ASPM = 2.71, Defensive ASPM = -1.23 (negative is good)

    Larger (probably statistically signifcant) advanced to Lowry and these numbers suggest Jose is a shitty defender (we all knew that) and that Lowry is a good defender.  So much so, that Lowry appears to save as many points as Jose gives up.

  • FAQ

    Questions for all:  Is this 2012-13 season going to be critical for the direction the Raptors will take, and wishful thinking will vanish… once and for all..??!!!!

    • p00ka

      VANISH,,,, VANISH??!! YES!! GET PREPARED FOR THE REVOLUTION !!! WE MUST UNITE AND …………?????? ummm where were we gain? oh yeah, Raptors.. GO RAPS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! cheers

  • mohammed

    this is derozans year guys. hes the future and i have no doubt that he will be an all star.

  • mohammed

    this is derozans year guys. i have no doubt he will be an all star at least by next season, if not this season. the guy averaged 16.7 points,3.3 boards, 2assists per game last season, which is not good enough compared to others, but he will step up his game this season and has the speed,aggressiveness  and the basketball iq that is needed.