A 21-year old Andrea Bargnani averaged 11.6 points and 3.9 rebounds in his rookie season while playing 25 minutes a game. He had a PER of 12.8. By all accounts, that was pretty good season which even netted him one very homerish first place ROY vote over Brandon Roy. If a 20-year Jonas can match that sort of production it’ll be a massive success. The question becomes whether he’s in a position to replicate that sort of production. Bargnani came over after a summer the Raptors completely retooled their roster, for once getting it right. T.J Ford, Jose Calderon, Rasho Nesterovic, and Jorge Garbajosa were newcomers to the scene, and combined with an in-form Chris Bosh, cushioned the roster for Andrea Bargnani who was able to surprise many.

Even if Lowry, Bargnani, and DeRozan provide the same padding delivered by the 2006-07 squad for their incoming rookie, realistically, it’ll be difficult for Jonas to match Bargnani’s output. Valanciunas comes in with far inferior offensive skill than what Bargnani had, and his offense will depend on others looking for him, unlike Bargnani who had enough skill to find his offense. It can’t be overstated that we’ll have to look outside the box score to measure the rookie’s production, and Casey’s already doing that:

He’s one of the best rollers in the league…he’s causing all kinds of havoc with his rolls to the basket…he does a good job of rolling, taking up space…we got to reward him for running the floor, setting the screen and rolling to the bucket.

As unexciting as that sounds, it’s the truth. You don’t get on ESPN by rolling to the rim and creating space for a missed three-pointer on ESPN, and you certainly don’t do it for deflecting a pass because the wing couldn’t see over your outstretched arms when making a skip pass. Even with only two games played, it’s easy enough to see what Valaniuncas is all about – movement, paint protection and rebounding. Hardly glamorous but vital tasks. I don’t view him as a rookie who’s coming into save the world, he’s akin to the low-touch demanding veteran you sign to add some beef to the paint. Think of him as when we first signed Rasho Nesterovic, or what Jamaal Magloire was supposed to be last year. Basically, he’s here to add muscle, do the dirty work, with an added bonus being functional in an offensive set.

I’d say his first year NBA projection is something like DeJuan Blair, who had a first year production of 7.8 points, 6.4 rebounds in 18 minutes. He had a crazy PER of 17.7. This is the path that I expect Jonas to take, maybe not to the degree of efficiency that Blair showed (he shot 56% his rookie year playing on a good Spurs team). Jonas is a much better FT shooter than Blair so his TS% should be above Blair’s 56.4%. We can agree that the effort level of these two players looks to be quite consistent, both put a heavy emphasis on making their presence count in the paint and have limited offensive games which they try to compensate for by offensive rebounding, positioning and sheer hustle.

SO! If I told you that you’d get a DeJuan Blair type guy on the roster this year and who, by all accounts, has a much higher upside offensively and isn’t bounded by Blair’s lack of height and reach which cost him on defense, I’d say that’s a pretty good haul. Jonas may end up being a reliable defensive center his whole career or he could turn into Dwight Howard if everything plays out nice. Nobody should hold him to being a great player because let’s face it, the fifth pick is hit and miss. However, what fans will do is continually compare him to people we’ve passed to get him. That list includes Brandon Knight, Kemba Walker, Bismack Biyombo and Kawhi Lenard. And if you’re really cynical, you’ll blame him for the Raptors not picking a C like Andre Drummond in the 2012 draft.

It’s rarely that we blame a player for not living up to the hype constructed by others; it’s usually the “what could’ve been” when you realize what was out there. In this case, though, I’m confident Jonas won’t have us looking back. He might not be the best player that we could’ve taken at that spot, but he certainly won’t be a pick you regret.

  • AB7.38pt.on.CB4

    Comparison: J Noah with better skills and hands

    Stats : 9.5 ppg
              8.5 rpg
              1.7 blk

              in 22 min
      

    • Jamshid

      That would be a great numbers for Big Val 

    • Destro

      IF hes only getting 22 mins no way averages almost 9 boards a game…thats not even realistic lol…Top rebounders in the game playing 35-40 mins averaging 10-11 boards….try again… 

      • Al_Oliver

        actually the best rebounders are around 13-14 rebs / game (D12 averaged 14.5 and Love went for 13.3 per game)

        • Destro

          Name me the top 10 rebounders last year and there numbers…smh @ arguing just to argue…

          • Al_Oliver

            do it yourself, google is your friend…

          • CJT

            top 17 rebounders averaged 10 or more. 

            • CJT

              sorry meant 9 or more for top 17, top 10 basically 10 per.

    • Al_Oliver

      JLIII even threw that one out there and Noah was his teammate last year. I still think it is the best comp

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

       is that rookie year? Noah was a beast

  • minks77

    Just watching him roll hard with his hands up its clear that if any of the guards ever figure out what they are up there for then JV should have no problem scoring at the rim. I hope he never shoots a 3 but that doesn’t mean he’s limited. He keeps the ball high and has great hands. If the backcourt could figure out how to throw an effective lob pass instead of all these ankle level attempts we’ve seen so far watch out. It’s not just on JV but also on the rest of the squad to learn how to use him best.

    I’m a be patient. None of them have ever really played with a real big before. It’ll take time and he’s a fundamental (not flashy) centre but fundamentals win you games.

    • FAQ

      Jose  is 6-3, Lowry is 6-0 and Lucas is 5-11… all too short to effectively lob pass to JonasV rolling to the basket.  Maybe if JonasV set a pick for Bargs ….. or maybe not!!!!

      • BadDinosour

         ??? Chris Paul is 6-0, Deron Williams is 6-3… are they too small too?

        • FAQ

          Yes…..

          • Buschfire

            care to elaborate?

            • FAQ

              … too small is too small……..

              • The Rub

                No man they changed the rules, you’re no longer limited to throwing passes in downward trajectories only.  You can throw the ball higher now.  It’s a bold rule change by the NBA but I think it’ll pay off.

                • CJT

                  I guess that’s why there are so many great big men passers in the game.  They have the right height to pull it off.  No doubt he is going to bring up the failed playoff lob to Chris Bosh 37 years ago as proof.  

              • what the

                thats what she said

        • FLUXLAND

          On what planet do our PGs belong in the same conversation as CP3 and DWill?

          HOFrs vs guys no one will remember in 10 years.

          • CJT

            in the height conversation, which is the one they are having.

            • p00ka

              Topic of conversation? What’s that got to do with it? 😉

  • http://twitter.com/DJAG88 Big D

    Something that people don’t know is that he’s got a nice mid range jump shot. So we can use him on pick and pops too.

  • paul

    see…this season I was hoping for some moves that would do the exact opposite of what Jonas is doing…
    I was hoping we would get some deadly outside shooter to open up the middle.
    Jonas will now make it easier for more outside shooting and missed shots.
    Great.
    Look for our rebound ercentages to go up!!!!
     
    Last year, IMO, the oppositions blocked up the inside because they knew we had nothing going for us outside. I was pleading for releif here.
    Well…you all more than likely know more about what we got outside than I do. Its just in my initial veiwings do not see a great improvement here.
     
    I want a killer threat outside. We got big guys inside….they can’t so shit with everybody on top of them. Look for Noah to truly suck this year without Roase drawing everybody outside and away. Look for the entre Bulls team to struggle.
    THAT is how important the shooter is.
     
    Who do we have outside that makes anybody loose sleep the night before they play us????

    • Arsenalist

      The Raptors are not attractive enough to get a player that you’re describing. Not because they play in Toronto, but because they’re a loser franchise. That perception has been more than enforced the last four seasons under BC.

      The draft is where you have to strike and it looks like we’ve missed it with DD and Davis, the former was supposed to be the player you’re describing.

      • FAQ

        Amen… that says it all ….. 30

        • FLUXLAND

          I wish he had wrote “soulless” franchise. That’s really what it is. 

          You can’t even call them the TimberClips any longer. The Raptors and Bobcats have taken that NBA Siberian Gulag exile tag.  

      • Jamshid

        Words of Wisdom …. 
        Answer to all the delusional fans …

      • ZZ

         Somehow people forget about Terrence Ross… even though he’s a rookie he’s a pretty damn good shooter, JV’s rolling would do wonders for himas well as the others

      • p00ka

        In what sense do you mean “was supposed to be the player you’re describing”? As far as I know, he was never described as an outside shooter, in fact quite poor at it. Basically, his total game was mid-range Js, with oodles of raw athleticism as the food for great optimism, tempered with the need to be patience with his development. Seems there’s good reason they went for Ross this year, despite continued optimism of DD developing into a significant piece, albeit not a great outside shooter.

        • Arsenalist

           As in, DeRozan was supposed to be the wing player that will open up things for others.  His jumpshot was expected to improve over time.  I’m not saying he was expected to be a sniper, but a legit threat that can score from the perimeter and by coming inside.  Hey, still might happen, right?

          • p00ka

            We can hope! There are signs he’s working on his flaws. How much he can improve is yet to be seen.

            • FLUXLAND

              Ah, yes. Hope. The nectar and life source of all Raptor fans.

              I really enjoy watching Bryan’s picks “work on their flaws” year after year.

              • p00ka

                We all need something to enjoy, and we all know how you get your jollies. Where have you been? On the whine wagon? C’mon, you know you can’t live without it. Happy for you that you found your way back to your niche of enjoyment.

      • BeReasonable

        DD is 23

        • Destro

          ONe thing thats lost on people is his age…

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      Everyone is entitled to their opinion but an opinion without knowledge is bullchit…..front to back…..

      • CJT

        You would know.  You’re the poster child front to back.

  • cesco

    If Andrea was able to surprise many in his rookie year by his scoring , wait a couple of months into the season when Jonas combination of good defense and offense will help put the Raps in the middle of the playoffs race in a eastern conference far more competitive than it was on 2006-2007 .

    • Destro

      Nah ppl expected at least that from him…im sure most were surprised he couldnt rebound more than 3.9 times a game….undoubtedly Jonas and ANY big man with an ounce of testosterone will do better than that….

  • http://falseprophetsandgods.blogspot.com/ GN. FLAVIVS PHILOVERITAS

    Maybe a fair comparison for Jonas is Rasho Nesterovic, though Jonas is more athletic. Rasho’s first full NBA season after playing in Europe was 5.7 PPG 4.6 RPG 1 BPG in 21 MPG 55 GS with a dominant Kevin Garnett at the 4. If Jonas could be a Rasho type centre it would be a good pick. I wish they had given Rasho a front office spot so he could work with Valanciunas.

  • Mediumcore

    I’d like to wait and see what JV can do with a PG on the floor that knows how to play in the pick and roll. I’d wager his stats would be different with Jose/Lwry than JL3. It’s only been 2 preseason games thus far for him so he hasn’t even had a chance to warm up yet.

  • Rahulmathurmail

    Man, a Nash/Jonas pick and roll would have been fun this year. But….. I know I know…

    • tmk

      You know, I was always against Nash signing here for different reasons that I wont rant about right now. But after seeing how Jonas plays and how he rolls to the rim…damn…Nash would’ve made Jonas look 10x better on offense. They would’ve been a perfect compliment. O welllll….hopefully Lowry can develop something with him.

      • K.J.P

        Is Calderon not a good pick and roll PG? I thought he was….(obviously not as good as Nash but still good).

        • ZZ

           People love to hate on Jose so I’m not surprised that he is being ignored in this aspect

          • tmk

            No, I do respect Jose’s game and I do think he is a good pick and roll player. Trust me, I’m one of those people that thinks Jose is way under appreciated. I definitely think that him and Jonas will be a great combo (just look at him and Amir), but I was just mentioning Nash because, well he IS a lot better, and I mentioned Lowry instead because he is more or less the ‘future’ point guard for the next couple of years so they’d need to develop chemistry (more then him and Jose as he’ll probably be gone soon unfortunately). 

            • unknown guest

              Jose gets hate more because of salary expectations that defense.

              As if Nash plays defense. smh.

    • Destro

      trust me by mid season yall will be glad Nash didnt sign here…dudes already looking flabby and sick and its only 3 pre season games….

  • JHP

    I’m not that big into individual numbers.  If JV plays hard, gives his all and at least acts like he likes being in TO then I’ll be happy.  Far to many of the current players come in, work, sulk and leave for the day.  With a great motor, talent and size I hope he has a positive impact on the team.

  • brother

    Obviously, nobody knows where this guy will end up. And that’s a good thing. When you saw Aaron Gray in his rookie season, did you salivate at the possibilities? Or did you kind of have a pretty good idea as to what his best case ceiling was? i.e. maybe a middling, banging centre good for 10 points and 7 boards in his game of the year.

    Well as for Jonas, the only picture that I get in my head is a range based one. Based on the TWO PRESEASON games I’ve seen, I say maybe he ends up somewhere between Aaron Gray and Dwight Howard. I’ll take it. The fact that the door remains open on his upside is all I could ask for. After seeing him play against NBA talent, I get the impression that he’s got more in the tank and that after some fine tuning, he’s got every potential to be a monster. I did not get that same feeling after having seen Ed Davis’s first game or Amir Johnson’s or Roko Ukic’s or many other once young Raptors.

  • http://falseprophetsandgods.blogspot.com/ GN. FLAVIVS PHILOVERITAS

    I will put it out there that I see JV getting 10 pts and 6 rebs with 1.5 blocks this year. I think he will develop into a 16, 10 and 2.5 kinda guy.

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      More like 5 & 5 over 82 games- he will hit the rookie wall hard.

      • Riverdale Rat

        Why?  He’s been playing euro pro + nat team for two years +.  I bet that’s pretty close to NBA season length.  I bet he’s better prepared than your average NCAA player who would be topped at less than 40 games.

        • Destro

          Euro league is not close to NBA season length and over there ur playing against MUCH inferior talent and size…major difference…

          Top NCAA talent is always better prepared for the NBA…

          • p00ka

            “Top NCAA talent is always better prepared for the NBA”

            Care to illuminate us about your reasoning? The style of play in both Euroleague and the NCAA are a far cry from the NBA, as is schedule. The big difference between the two is playing against men vs boys. Talent? The vast majority of boys playing in the NCAA don’t even have hope of playing pro ball anywhere, never mind the 2nd tier (from NBA) pro ball in Europe. Please, tell us how NCAA players are better prepared.

            • CJT

              Here comes the Destro two step. 

              • p00ka

                Yup, it just landed somewhere else in the comments.

      • Nilanka15

        I bet Tony Wroten hits a much harder “rookie wall”.

        • what the

          I wonder if gary forbes hit the rookie wall when he was a rook or did he just flooow on by.

  • raptors_fan

    what about anthony parker in the team supported bargnani in his first two rookie years??

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

       We have Linas to do something while sitting on the bench

  • nottheendoftheworld

    I think the best comparison to date is Zidrunas Ilgauskas, and if he comes anywhere close to 15 successful seasons as a typical big man, Raps fans should be pleased.

    Jose is a pretty good P&R PG … no need for Nash.

    • Destro

      Why do ppl say Ilgauskas is the best comparison ? because theyre both lithuanian ?
      There games are really not similar if you watch Zydrunas ever play….He was a perimeter big who relied heavy on shooting,opposite of what Jonas is…

       

      • nottheendoftheworld

        I’d never heard anyone else make the comparison …. however when Big Z first came into the league he was touted as a shot blocking, rebounding defensive specialist with a high motor. 

        Even though Z adjusted his game to survive in the league (ie developed a mid-range jumper) he still grabbed boards and positioned himself well for team defense. Never in his 15-year career was Z considered a ‘perimeter big’.

        Bargs would be the opposite to Z, and JV.

        • Destro

          FALSE
          He was a below average rebounder for his career and size and he has BEEN known as a perimeter oriented Center…Did he score in the paint ? obviously he did but even his shooting splits in his prime years in CLE clearly indicate he loved shooting from 15 feet out….his best yera in the league 02-03 his highest pct of shots made and taken were mid range….AND everyone who knows basketball knows Ilgauskas to be a mid range oriented player…. 

          • nottheendoftheworld

            WRONG.

            Z has NEVER been known as a perimeter big, and a quick check of just about every b-ball resource online confirms this, regardless of your self-proclaimed status as someone who knows basketball. Being able to spell it doesn’t amount to much in terms of knowledge of its players or history.

            He was scouted as, drafted as, and played as, as true centre. He was known to have advanced post moves, dominated under both baskets, and did the majority of his scoring in the paint. He also averaged more than 2 blocks per game more than 5 times. Perimeter bigs don’t do these things.

            He was known to be skinny, but difficult to move once he gained position … and no, I don’t think he was trying to establish position away from the basket. Perimeter game? No.

            A mid-range jumper is something you want your center to develop in order to free up space in the paint, especially as the get older. But what do I know? I’ll leave it to the internet experts like you, who know basketball but obviously pursued a more challenging career, like medicine perhaps. Or more likely, you watched last year’s Miami games.

            He was nothing like Bargs, and if JV has a Z-like career, we should all consider ourselves lucky … to have a centre.

            • Destro

              LOL
              Get ur facts straight before bullshitin out ya keyboard,he averaged 2 blocks a game TWICE in his career not FIVE times….and he was in general a below average rebounder (7.3 career) and several PRIME years toiled in around 6-6.5 boards….and if you bothered to look at his shot splits during his prime years you will notice he took more mid range shots than any other type….which would absolutely confirm what REAL heads already knew and that is hes a mid range big man who relied on perimeter game….

              now go mis-quote some more stats for me… 

              • nottheendoftheworld

                You’ve got the misinterpretation of stats covered well enough.

                Anyone who ever averaged 2 blocks or more is not a perimeter big man, and blocking 140-150 blocks in a season is 2 blocks a game …  1.8 blocks does not a perimeter player make. No center who grabs 6-7 boards ‘toiled’, either. Perhaps he was a perimeter player, if your only point of comparison is Ben Wallace. Old enough to remember him?Perhaps paint scoring doesn’t rate for you in your ill-measured comments about Z. I think your disconnect comes from not actually watching any games, as perhaps you discovered him last year as a Heat member. You confirm only what tishheads already knew…. ‘nout.

              • go_nads

                 “toiled in around 6-6.5 boards”

                In how many minutes? 26(00-01) and 21(01-02)? And at least one of those seasons was  shortened due to injury?

                I am in awe of your research skills.

        • Destro

          Truth is Ilgauskas to bargnani comparison is far more accurate than to Jonas….You can clearly read by his lower rebounding stats that he was a perimeter big…If he was more of a low post player he’d have better seasonal and career rebounding numbers…

      • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

         I say Tyson Chandler would be a good comparison

        • 2damkule

          ugh…again with this?  why, exactly?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

            Because he sets good screens and can finish off the roll, runs the floor well and can be an anchor on defense. I’m not calling him the next Dwight Howard like some people. I’m being reasonable.

            • Destro

              Whos calling him the next D-12 ?

              • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

                Well talking about some people exaggerating and calling Drummond the next D-12 (cough cough) and being reasonable with my expectations of Jonas

  • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

    Andre Drummond vs Bucks: 19 points, 10 rebounds, 2 blocks, 2 assist  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkQg65PGqSo&feature=player_embedded

    BC really said that they had TRoss (whom I think will be a solid NBA player) rated higher than ADrummond on their draft board…drafted for need (shooting) over talent (ADrummond).

    I don’t think that many if any GMs or scouts had TRoss rated above AD at #8 on draft nite as the draft unfolded as it did.

    A Val/ADrummond frontcourt would have been a monster frontcourt moving forward but BC loves that lazy half ass jump shooting AB to a freakin’ fault- if AB had Val’s hustle he might be watchable but after 6 years I have had enough of watching King Pasta in a Raptors uniform!!

    • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

      Something interesting that I found on another site about BC’s pre draft talk about selecting the best talent over need:

      Headline: Bryan Colangelo heading into NBA draft with open mind: http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/bask … story.html“There is a lot of uncertainty in the East right now,” he said. “There are all kinds of things in play right now and we hope to be taking our ascension to the next level and that’s where we’re headed.“We’ve always said best player available,” he said. “You hope he fits a need and we’ve got some needs on our roster we’re looking to fill.

      “But it generally comes down to picking the best talent, the best player.”

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!
      • FLUXLAND

        Let me translate.

        “The East is spoken for, but there’s a few teams that could sneak into the playoffs as doormats. We are hoping to be one of those teams that can sell that doormat status as Championship contention and that’s where we’re headed.” “We always said best player marketable to the demographic. You pray that he serves a basketball purpose and we need those basketball or whatevertheycallit players, but it generally comes down to picking the guy I can sell the best as a long term development project, not the actual best basketball player available.”  

        • p00ka

          I don’t know how we get by without your valuable translations, but do you have anything resembling reality in relation to the conversation?

    • NyAlesund

      Why did Sac Kings choose RTobinson instead of Drummond?
      Why are you so excited for a pre-season game in which the big fella has scored half points when the team was down by 20?
      Why are you saying that Drummond is talented? One that doesn’t have a single offensive movements?
      Do you think that Drummond is a new Howard after three pre-season games?
      Do you really think that one team can afford two big men unable to score from 6/7 feet or more are ideal to run the offence? What happened when they forced to biult an own shot?
      Do you never considered players like McGee, Blatche, Dalembert, Thompson….are not the ideal big man?

      We already had Valanciunas during the draft, why would we have had to choose another big man? To waste an opportunity to pick a really talented guard?

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        LMFAO @ U………………..

        • Ppellico

          how old ARE you?????

          • Destro

            How young are you ?

            • hater

              how fking dumb are you?

      • Konanas

        I see that you like Ross, but you have to agree that Drummond did a lot more than our pick… at least for now… Someone should teach T. Ross to drive to the basket and don’t be afraid of some contact with defender. His athleticism is worth nothing if he’s only shoots jumpers from behind the arc, he aren’t using one of his most powerful weapons in that way

        • Destro

          These fruits are funny acting like being 7 275 lbs of raw athleticism ISNT enough lol….

          Hes putting up 19/10s with no moves YET he needs more for these unathletic,never played ball a day in there lives posters to be satisfied….

          Raptor fans are quite an enigma…

          Shaq arguably the greatest and most dominate center of all time couldnt shoot from 5 feet or hit a free throw…

          • p00ka

            Preseason, fruitcake.

          • CJT

            he did have post moves though. 

            • Destro

               He relied on his strength and size down low…

              • CJT

                no doubt, how could he not, but he still had post moves. 

      • tankfor2013

        Why do you already assume Val is going to be our savior after one good summer?

        Don’t you think there’s a chance he could be the next Bargs who shows glimpses but can’t put it all together after years in the league?

        How many offensive moves do you think Howard has after so many years in the league?

        We already had several guards in the draft, why waste an opportunity to pick a potentially game changing big man?

        LMAO x 2

        • Destro

          Howard had ZERO offensive game coming in the league and dominated because of his body and blackleticism….same with Drummond…

          If you have those physical tools you can dominate down low with size all day….these goofballs are just mad…because he’ll be an all star before Andrea lol…

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

            Just because you have physical tools, it doesn’t mean shit if you don’t know how to play the game. He has no post game, plain and simple. He is a big kid but unless he develops some moves and understands the game better, he is prob going to be another Deandre Jordan.

            • Destro

              If you think hes going to be DeAndre thats on you to watch more basketball breh….Hes a rook whos played 3 pre season games and that being said hes already showing out impressive….

              and physical tools actually does mean shit..this aint bowling size and athleticism matters in the NBA…smh @ that blatant stupidity….

              • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

                I didn’t say physical tools doesn’t mean shit dumbass. I said it doesn’t mean shit if you don’t have the basketball IQ and game to back it up.

                • Destro

                  “Just because you have physical tools, it doesn’t mean shit “

                • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

                   “if you don’t know how to play the game.”

                • CJT

                  Here comes the Destro two step.

                • go_nads

                   Context is overrated

        • NyAlesund

           I don’t understand why you are underestimating Valanciunas.

          You don’t know Drummond and Val but for some reason the first is best than the second. Reason why?

          • tankfor2013

            I’m not underestimating Val at all. I’m just saying that he ends up being next uninspiring big man ala Bargs. But what i’m really saying is that what the Raptors need is a game changer and something to take us off this path of mediocrity.

            What I see from Val is a skinny guy that hussles and that’s a start. What I see from Drummond is an athletic big body that seems to be playing in the NBA with underdeveloped children. Yes, it’s only preseason but from what Drummond has already shown against NBA players, it’s scary.

            Nothing against Ross as a player but picking Ross over Drummond and picking him as high as was picked was another “WTF Classic Moments by BC”. I think Val has the opportunity to be a great roll player but I think Drummond has the opportunity to be a great superstar. Now, as much as I loved Ben Wallace, I’d rather have a Dwight Howard.

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

          Nobody is expecting him to be our savior. I’m expecting him to be a key piece to our young core group.
          And what guards did we have at the end of the season? We needed more depth for the future.
          So your saying don’t expect Jonas to be a savior but expect Drummond to be a potentially game changing Dwight-type big man.
          This boy is confused.

      • Destro

        Who cares who Kings selected
        Who cares what teh scores was in a pre season game,pre season aint about wins and losses dummy its about working on ur game…
        Your saying Drummond isnt talented ? WTF lol
        When you draft in the lottery you take the best player PERIOD..you work out the particulars or who needs to be moved after the fact…
        If Drum is better than what you got,then you move what you got to make room….drafting a 7 ft athletic Center with a huge ceiling is not a wasted opportunity… 

        • p00ka

          “Best player” in the crap shoot that is the draft, is very subjective. As a Casey run team, a big part of the consideration in acquiring players is work ethic and attitude, both big red flags in any scouting report you can find about Drummond. Size and athleticism only gets you so far in the NBA. James Johnson is a fine example. A hell of a physical and athletic specimen for the SF position, yet despite his biggest asset being his defensive abilities, two very defensive bent head coaches have sent him packing. Eddy Curry was a beast of a big physical specimen too, with work ethic and attitude issues. Though he looked good for far more than a few preseason games, how did that turn out?
          The Raps didn’t see Drummond’s character fitting in with a Casey team. Get over it, and get used to a talented white guy manning the middle.

          • Destro

            A SF size and athleticism is not the same as a Center…and no Eddie Curry was just big..he was flabby from day he was not gifted athletically smh…..

            Valanciunas will be ok but Drummond will be elite….but hey thats cool as long as the goofy white guy fits “IN” lolol

        • NyAlesund

           Tell me about the Drummond’s talent. I am curious.

          I repeat the same concept: why did we have select Drummond when we already had Valanciunas? Tell me.

          Do you think that Ross is not talented? Do you think it was a bad idea to select a guard?

          Tell me WTF we would have done with Drummond, Valanciunas, Amir, Ed Davis and Bargnani. To collect PF/C?

          • Destro

            I think Ross will be a serviceable player,a 6th man but he doesnt have the ceiling a player like Drummond has….What im saying is in the lotto you dont go for position you take the best player available IMO i dont think Ross was it..in fact i think either Lamb or Drummond was better player available….

            Theres no reason to think Valanciunas and Drum couldnt play together,hel HOF big men can play together but THEY cant ??

            If you draft Drummond its up to BC to keep 3 or trade one i would assume bargs would be out,if it were up to me Bargs woulda been out 3 seasons ago *shrug*

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

              So ok. Lets say I am for example the Hornets and I am in the Raps draft position. I already drafted Anthony Davis, locked at the center spot for the future. Would you draft Drummond with that pick? No you wouldn’t because it doesn’t make sense. Doesn’t picking Austin Rivers make sense. A position of NEED. Your just pure hating on Ross when he hasn’t even played a regular season game. Just relax.

    • ckh26

      …. and they lost by 17.

      Drummond will undoubtedly get his points this year and should develop into a starting centre just as JV will. My point is this. If you have a hammer in the tool box you don’t need a second. What the tool box needed was better outside  shooting ability on the wing. Ross filled that need and the GM placed his bet. I hope there are long years of comparing whose the better centre Drummond or JV.   

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        Drafting need over talent…..kool aid!!!!!smh

        • p00ka

          Besides jumping, tell us what the wealth of “talent” is that you refer to. Big and strong aren’t talents, and will only get one so far in this league…. diarrhea !!!!! Ya got stop drinking your own shyt.

          • Jamshid

            All the talk about Drummond … Makes me think about who will have a better average at the end of the year ( NOT THE PER 36).

            Drummond, Kanter, Davis, Big Val 

            • Nilanka15

              Kanter is in his 2nd year.  Apples & oranges.

          • Destro

            Shaq is the GOAT center of all time ACTUALLY…

            lol @ will only get you so far

            • p00ka

              Did Shaq have a rep for work ethic and attitude issues coming into the NBA? If not, no comparison. For every Shaq, there’s 3 Eddy Curry’s.

              • Destro

                Shaq DIDNT have a bad rap for work ethic NOW ? You blatantly telling lies now to make a non point lol…Shaq was very KNOWN for a shitty work ethic….in his prime years and towards the end where he ballooned…..

                • p00ka

                  Another reading comprehension problem? “…..coming into the NBA?”

      • Destro

        Were counting pre season wins and losses ???

        You dudes are fckn horrible horrible posters…

        • p00ka

          You’re putting huge stock into preseason stats of a rookie, Destroll.

          • Destro

            Actually if you take out the screenames involved and stop being a gay lil troll youd prolly agree that pre season wins dont mean shit so whos cares how much the Pistons lost by….IN the mins he has played he has been impressive….you taking any more out of that statement thats on your reading comprehension…. 

            • p00ka

              Yup, the Destroll two step can always be counted on. So now you say you’re only saying he’s been impressive in the minutes he’s played, eh. And you also said you haven’t drawn any conclusions.

              How about you declaring “Hes going to be the best center in the L for the next 10 years and an all star…”? LMFAO, you’re just a loud mouthed kid who spouts cliches as if they represent your intimate knowledge of a game you actually know little about, and are so bent on being an internet know-it-all punk, you can’t even keep track of your own blarney.

    • p00ka

      I guess you’re not out of diapers for long enough to have learned that for 99% of the kids coming into the league, you can’t judge how well he’s going to develop until at least a couple of seasons in the L, never mind concluding anything from a couple of preseason games. You just get more pathetic by the post with your anti-AB, anti-BC chants. You gotta get out and smell the roses once in a while, lad. Smelling your own diaper dumps for too long will get to you, as it obviously has.

      • BCStefanskiCaseyGots2Go!!!

        …………………………………………………………………………………………

      • Destro

        Were not judging a hole,were giving opinions which is what 90% of this board does….lol @ concluding….more like impressed by what we seen…

        • p00ka

          When all else fails, the “just giving my opinion” defense. LOL @ Destroll

          • Destro

            Has Drummond not looked good in the 2 games hes played ? If yes is the answer than ur posts is nothing more than some bleeding vagina diatribes….. 

            • p00ka

              Oh yeah, so impressive in two preseason games that “Hes going to be the best center in the L for the next 10 years and an all star…”? LMFAO at how you dig yourself a bigger hole every time you type your little dumbass punk remarks.

    • cesco

      You forgot to mention that Drummond is 1-6 in FT’s (o.166 %). When the regular season begins , he will be sent to the FT line a lot . So let us wait and see how everything develop in Detroit and TO  .

      • Jamshid

        As I said, I am very curious on ranking these 4 guys at the end of the season based on their averages and answer all these questions once for all.

        Kanter, Big Val, Davis, Drummond

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

           Kanter isn’t even a rookie

      • nba_socrates

        Why make a fuss over FT’s? Shaq, Howard alot of big men in the league cant shoot em but they doing just fine.

        • Lorenzo

          Having a glaring Achille’s heel right out the gate is what scares a lot of GM’s…

        • CJT

          didn’t they shoot around 50%?  Drummond shoots around 15%. 

    • cesco

      The legendary twin towers Toronto had a few years ago was a total
      failure and one was an all-star and the other a former all-star .
      Imagine a new twin towers made-up of two rookies
      and how successful they will be . It is not BC that has to go , it is you and your asinine ideas .

      • sleepz

        One is still an all-star and the other washed up.

        I agree that 2 rookies manning the front court has the potential to be trouble but for a team that should be rebuilding (IMO it wasn’t time for an ‘accelerated build’) slow and steady to accumulate the best talent possible, a front court of 2 rookies growing together would have been preferable to the front court we have now, imho. 

    • sleepz

      I do agree, that a Val-Drummond could have possibly been an interesting tandem

    • Nilanka15

      Drummond played more minutes than both Monroe and Maxiel, and also led the Pistons in field goal attempts.  Is this what you expect to happen once the regular season starts?  C’mon man…

    • Destro

      Bruh i been said this….Drum is going to make us look bad for not taking him….

      Hes going to be the best center in the L for the next 10 years and an all star…
      Hes dominating right now on athleticism and size and hes a damn rookie…Wait til Hakeem puts some work in on him….

      • Dddvdvd

         facepalm

  • Lorenzo

    As much as I hate to agree with some of the “eccentrics” on this board… having a frontcourt of Drummond and Valanciunas would be pretty attractive…

    I too was bummed out when we passed on Drummond, but I’m confident Terrence will turn out to be better than we expected.

    • Riverdale Rat

      Who plays the 4 in your Drummond/Val scenario?  The poor man’s Dwight Howard or the Lithuanian p&r specialist/o rebounding banger?

      WE HAD A CENTER COMING.  WHY ON GOD’S GREEN EARTH WOULD BC PICK A CENTER?

      Assuming the hammy hangs in, I’m actually pretty intrigued about Calderon and JV. The haters hate on Calderon for his D — if he can steer his guy into a block or changed shot, and at the same time get the ball into JV’s hands 5+ times on the P&R… all of a sudden we have a better 2nd unit than all but a few teams.  Lowry comes as advertised and gets shots for himself, AB and DD at the same time, and we’re back to being a great O team, but with a better than average D.  That’s a solid recipe, no?

      • Tosh

        Doesn’t matter about our roster u draft the bpa

        We already had a sg as well but we drafted Ross

        • p00ka

          In the vast majority of drafts, even deep ones like this one, beyond the first pick or two, BPA is very subjective. Every single team in the league has a history of picks that illustrate how much of a crap shoot the draft is. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose.

          We don’t know exactly what the Raps’ evaluation of these players was, but the league wide consensus on Drummond was that he was a big strong guy who can jump, but otherwise was a project that had developed zero other basketball skills and has little in the way of bball IQ, and had attitude & work ethic questions. Those red flags shout “not a Casey kind of player”, so it shouldn’t be any surprise they passed on him.

          Detroit decided to gamble on him actually developing into a basketball player. I wish them luck, but there’s a very long way to go before anybody can conclude anything reasonable about any of these draft picks. Do you have any idea how many young players have looked great out of the blocks, young fans get all excited about them, yet they flame out of the league in 2-3 years? MANY. There’s reason why the average career length in the NBA is less than 5 years.

        • Destro

          Thank you !

      • The Rub

         Centres win championships.  Roll the dice with the player that was arguably the 2nd best talent in the draft, if it doesn’t work out you have V so no big deal.

        If Ross does work out you just replaced a SG who can’t shoot with a SG who can’t drive.

        • Lorenzo

          Look on the bright side, if you were to somehow biologically fuse DeMar and Terrence together, you’d have…… O.J. Mayo……

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

           If it doesn’t work, you rip on BC. Tell me who won the championship last year without a real center.

          • Destro

            Anamoly because they have 3 all star players…generally speaking there are exceptions to every rule but generally speaking most ships have been won by teams with good or flat out dominant big men…

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

              The Celtics did not have dominant center when they won the chip. Kendrick Perkins was just a defensive center, most overrated player in the league. The Spurs, besides the year David Robinson was there, won a championship without a dominant center or good center. And don’t tell me Duncan was the center. The Raps had other needs with the center spot filled with Jonas and off the bench with big men like Amir and Davis. It would create a log jam. We needed a swingman and we aren’t giving Ross a chance right now after 3 PRESEASON games. Lets stop this stupid Drummond talk already.

          • unknown guest

            I gotta go with Destro on this. Historically champion teams are won with elite centers.

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

              Elite centers lol. Not every championship team these past years have had an elite center. The only “elite” center on a championship team this past decade is Shaq. Name another and I’ll laugh in your face. The league has changed and its a more fast paced. There aren’t that many good centers in the league like back in the day. And if you think Drummond is the second coming of Wilt Chamberlain or Kareem of a championship team, then keep dreaming buddy.

              • p00ka

                “The league has changed and its a more fast paced.”

                Some of these kids haven’t been around long enough to have a grasp of how the league is evolving, rendering “formulas for success” in the past often non-applicable to today.

                • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

                  For gosh sake, Chris Bosh was the starting center for the Heat. There’s your “elite” center for ya.

        • go_nads

          “a SG who can’t shoot with a SG who can’t drive”

          U talkin about Demar?

      • golden

        Who plays the 4 in your Drummond/Val scenario? The poor man’s Dwight Howard or the Lithuanian p&r specialist/o rebounding banger?

        ====

        JV easily slides over to PF.  He has the quickness to go along with strength and length to guard PFs.  He already has a nice shooting form and will be able to extend his range to the elbow in the few years.  A Drummond-JV frontline would have been exciting to watch develop.   But BC went for the “accelerated rebuilding” process, which meant drafting Ross “for need”.  Still really, really, really early, but Drummond has got the look of a potential franchise player. 

        • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

           Somebody needs to be able to a offensive threat at least in the front court. These guys still need to be spoon fed the ball off pick and rolls, especially Drummond. At least Bargs can stretch the floor and create space for Demar and others to drive.

          • Destro

            most bigs need to be fed the ball….Sorry breh most championship teams are not runned by ball handling big men…maybe in 2078 but not 2012…

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

              If you fed them the ball in the post, they can’t do anything with it. Jonas is too weak and Drummond is too dumb. You need to create the offense for them most of the time. With Andrea, you can give it to him in the post, screen and fade, stretch the floor for shooters, or put it on the floor and drive. He is a match-up nightmare for PF or C.

          • golden

            JV is already a solid PnR player with a nice shooting form and Drummond has the potential to be a bully in the post.  They are already better offensively than Perkins-Ibaka, for example, with tons of upside.   Bargs would still be a nice big man in the rotation to play with both of those guys when a stretch 4 is needed. 

            • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

              Sorry you don’t have a 10 million dollar man on your bench. And your already saying Jonas is better offensively than Ibaka lol after one nice preseason game. Little optimistic

        • unknown guest

          Can’t we at least wait ’til the regular season to see how Drummond and TRoss will do? Not hating on either one, and I agree that GM’s should draft “best talent available vs need”, but let’s have a little bit of patience here.

          • golden

            Agree on the patience, but the Raps were in no position to be drafting “for need”, period.  A high risk / high reward pick is exactly the type of gamble they needed to take.  There aren’t too many ways Toronto can acquire a franchise player.   They took the “safe” route drafting Ross, who is still going to be a “nice” player, don’t get me wrong. 

            But centers with Drummond’s physical gifts are rare.  If the issue drafting him was the mental part of the game, especially with Barnes off the board, then that’s what you have coaches for.  He was the consensus #1 overall pick, by a wide margin, before UConn.  If the issue was minutes & development, then that’s what trades are for.

    • babyface

      flip flop you lie

  • tankfor2013

    Ross has the ability to make our team stronger but Drummond has the possibility to change the fortunes of the franchise ei. Durant, Howard, I would even put Bynum in there. How the heck do we pass on that? We’re building like Denver after the Melo trade. They did well sure but how far do you think they’re going to go?

    I tell you Detroit will be a much better team than TO in 3~5 years. And even if we got top picks the next couple years don’t expect to get Wiggins. I’m sure BC will give us another WTF moment if he’s still around.

  • Trollarch_23_

    LOL @ this troll named BCStefanski

    • Destro

      great post,such valuable basketball insight……please come again.

  • Phat AlberG

    If I had to compare Val he’s body is like Tyson Chandler with the mind of Tim Duncan….Fundamentals Fundamentals Fundamentals. Val get’s it period! He’s too smart and I love watching him play because he loves doing the little things.  But I think he loves playing defensive more and many of big men in the league are going have a hard time dealing with his motor.  Great pick for the Raptors and Bryan is looking very smart right now because his roster is deep and athletic.  

  • 2damkule

    historically, championships are won by teams with elite players…

    • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XHJKFMCGSMBEQGBRKJVLKUGSEQ john g

       and……..

      • 2damkule

        d’oh…i’d posted that as a reply to the conversation re. how championships are won by teams with elite centres.  my (overly) simple point is that championships are won by teams with elite players, and that (especially) nowadays, the league is moving away from traditional on-court roles/responsibilities to try to take as much advantage as they can of their players’ natural abilities.

        • CJT

          Valid point.  People look to the Bulls to contend and teams like that who elite players but very average big men. 

  • CJT

    ZING!!!!!!  Take that.