Raptors Republic: ESPN TrueHoop Network Blog
by Zarar Siddiqi November 25, 2012
All I can see is that the greatest player ever went 2-19….
But what no wait Bargs is such a good player. The only reason we don’t win is because of the crappy team around him………………………………lmao sorry hard to keep a straight face hahahahahahahahahhahahahahha
O and ed davis had 15 points with 14 boards. Pretty sure that more then bargs had his last 2 games combined
We need his spacing on the floor…..
O I thought it was because of his stifiling defense on Duncan. 11-21 26 points.
Andrea was not defending Duncan , it was JV .
…and when Andrea did defend him, he did so quite well, but why let the truth get in the way of a good whine, eh.
I knew you guys would get there. Just the facts.
Spurs left him wide open for 3s coz they know he can’t even make them (which he actually missed all wide open 3s). How does that help spacing the floor? You gotta be kidding me (or maybe it’s actually you being sarcastic that i missed lool)
he can score from anywhere on the floor
more of dat ‘casm !
The problems are Colangelo and Casey. The first is an incompetent (18 mln for Fileds), the second is showing us how poor as coach he is. When he saw Bargani struggling and ED playing amazingly, there wasn’t a reason why he didin’t let Ed to play. The defeat has in Casey the real culprit.
I agree that Davis had a great game , perhaps his best game in the last 2 years , however when Andrea was substituted by Davis in the third quarter the Raps were ahead 60-56 . When Andrea substituted Davis with 5 minutes to go in regulation , the Raps were behind 79-81 . In other words , the team was faring better with Andrea on the floor scoring wise even though he was unable to score himself . Obviously Casey thought that Andrea will start scoring soon or later plus the teams were playing even with Andrea on the floor .
I agree, but there are times in which you have to let the guy on the bench. ED was on fire, the game was close so let him on the floor. I am AB’s fan but tonight there wasn’t chance to see him to score. The second bucket was a lucky shot.
” the second one was a lucky one” Cesco never mension that in his stats thingy.
Them faring better had nothing to with bargnani being on the floor…
And he had what was it 17 misses? Don’t you think even if he had his average of 35% those four extra buckets would have meant a win. Most of those 17 misses turned the ball over to the Spurs so please don’t try and excuse his pathetic shooting by a twisted logic that only you would attempt to offer. The only reason he is in the league is because of his scoring and one good game every ten doesn’t cut it .
What twisted logic is that ? So Casey who knows 100 times more about bball than any fan or analyst decides to keep him on the floor . Does he have a twisted logic or does he feel that the team is getting closer to start playing winning ball with the current set-up . If he is wrong , he will be fired eventually , AB may be traded and BC may follow suit .
The logic of defending a performance of 17 missed shots by saying the rest of the team played pretty good when he was on the floor. The fact is if he would have made a decent % of those shots or if somebody else who was shooting better [everybody] made those 4-5 extra buckets we are probably looking at a different outcome.
As far as Casey staying with him and that justifying the decision as the right one, it was proven to be wrong by the score. I think they have a preconceived plan regarding Bargnani but if it’s not working after a certain number of games there will be a change in his role or in his team. Hopefully for your sake the team starts winning cause what would you do without Andrea to defend?
havent i told you to stop posting here cesco?
The CEO of Enron knows 100 times more about business than I do, doesn’t mean I can’t second guess him on obvious decisions, such as commiting fraud. When your starter is 2-19 and his backup is on fire…play the backup! We don’t need a PHD in basketball to come to that conclusion
A lttle perspective here. ED was having a really good game for him. Was he on fire…don’t think so dude. Most NBA coaches would have done the exact same thing as Casey. Does anybody here actually watch the NBA other than the Raptors. Having both ED and JV on when your team is struggling offensively makes no sense even if ED is having a good game. His offense is very limited. I’ll repeat, his offense is limited. If he was lighting it up from all over the place…scoring 3′s, attacking the basket and drawing fouls and scoring from mid-range, it might have made more sense to keep him on the floor during crunch time. However, in a situation like this coaches always tend to go to there top scorers even if he is having an awful shooting night. And I didn’t need a PHD to come to that conclusion.
hey MORON… you DO NOT need 3′s from your PF…. Ed was attacking the basket DUMMY…… how many dunks did Andrea have?? How many fouls did Andrea draw??? STFU fanboy!
Dude, relax…take a breath, but first take your dick out of your mouth. Moron and dummy…I feel like a talking to a 10 year old…lol. Ain’t no fanboy either…want AB traded as much as anybody here. It’s obvious you don’t know much about bball. Rebounding the bball is not the same as attacking the basket. Maybe someone in the forum can explain that to you…LOL.
Cesco you’re so good a finding all these stats
A sidekick is born.
I said this before, but decisions like playing Bargs over Davis in a 1-19 effort has ripple effects felt after this game contributing to terrible culture in the organization. Players realize THE important factor in playing time is offense and tune out the coach when he preaches defense as he comes across as a hypocrite.
Seems like they’ve already started tuning out on the defensive end. This team can’t stop anyone when it matters.
HEY… defense is work, offense is fun… and if your playing on a losing team why play defense when you can have more fun playing offense … just ask Kyle …!
no i’ll ask Barney if he had fun shooting last night
Not true at all… today we had stops on Duncan where Bargs played decent D, and Tony’s penetration was prevented somewhat in OT.And overall good man to man Thats really all you can ask for imo against an elite offensive team. People need to chill with the expectations on D, we’re no Chicago..
While I agree with you on BC ,I am hesitant to ask for a change NOW.
I know the herd is angry and Matt52 is leading the way with his twitter campaign. They want blood, asking for change in GM, Coach, trade Jose and AB for 2nd round picks and …One thing we have to realize is that any change now means 5 more years of rebuild !! Is the herd ready to wait 5 years …We have no financial flexibility for next 3 years ( Amir, AB, DD, Fields, Kleiza and …) and have traded our first round pick and have made bad picks in the past.Why don’t we just wait and see what Casey can do now !! The man has 8 new players and 2 rookies. His top PG has been out half of the season and his SF is out due to injury.This team is better than its record. Mark my words for it. Just relax and enjoy the show. Changing coaches every 1.5 to 2 years ( the way it has been in past 7 years) is NOT the answer to our problems.
I agree with you on everything but I just think that this team needs to trade Bargnani. Not now but at the end of the season. Just the identity of the team has to change now. I hate to say it, even though I supported AB, but he is just to soft and inconsistent. I don’t care about his defense improving. I came for the whole package. If he can’t give me 18-20 pts a night consistently while at least 6 rebounds. Then we need a new starting PF.
andrea was shit.
So r u
bargnani fans are both clueless and racist
Really dude. You’re that pathetic. Hiding behind your keyboard with your dick in your mouth typing racial slurs.
Why did he even take 19 shots
Because theres no accountability from this coach….I feel for Ed Davis literally doesnt matter what he does in his limited PT….
I didn’t watch the game and am speaking strictly from looking at the boxscore, but I completely agree. You want to talk about “rewarding” players, and “accountability”? How about benching the guy stinking it up and playing the guy who was actually out there rebounding and hustling?
Without a doubt you cannot defend Casey after today,the bad coaching has piled up in all these close losses but you got a bit of every part of his incompetence as a coach today…No wonder KG wanted him out in Minny…Subs,rotations,play calling,schemes…everything he screwed up today…Im still tryna figure out why you have Jose guarding Tony Parker in double OT…makes no sense unless your completely clueless…
That’s my first like on a Casey criticism.
What is going on? I can’t believe the crap I’m seeing.
Can’t he see what is obvious to the common fans?
Is there an influence coming from somewhere that doesn’t want the tandem of Jose and Andrea sitting when they should be?
Come on Dwayne be a man and stand up for what is best for the team.
if he want to be the Raptors coach he better sit the fcku down and play Dirk and Nash.
It’s like a captain going down with his ship!…..He said he will go with Andrea come hell or high water! LOL talk about a coach placing his career on a player that has acheived nothing…..BARGS is not even an allstar…lol
Dwane Casey has lost all legitimacy with me…..no accountability!
I agree, Casey was awful this afternoon – what, with him coaching his team to a double-overtime loss to the second-best team in the league, and arguably the best coach in NBA history. Obviously he should have run more inbounding drills for Jose in practice, quit drawing up plays calling for Lowry to jack up shots from around halfcourt early in the clock and, dammit, put away that Bargnani voodoo doll that caused a 30-point drop in production between games. Fire him.
Look at their record in games that were close and winnable with five minutes to go.
Bargnani and Calderon have proven over the years just how dependable they are in that situation.
It doesn’t matter if it is the second best team in the league with an excellent coach or a bottom feeder, the result is almost inevitable.
Casey was my choice when they started their hunt for a HC and last year the defensive turnaround was impressive. This year he isn’t sizing up and making the right situational adjustments. You may disagree but today the tandem of Bargnani and Calderon would both have been on the bench for the last five minutes on my team.
I think their record doesn’t reflect how well they’ve played this season. I’m as disappointed as anyone at the 3-11 start, but the fact that they’ve been that close in so many games is a good sign. It’s been entertaining basketball. All the teams they’ve lost to – aside from Detroit – are better teams.. and in any one of those close ones, if one more shot falls, they win it. They were robbed in the Bobcats game, and really, today was pretty shoddy reffing as well, but they were beaten by a faaaar superior, veteran team (and yes, having Duncan, Ginobili and Parker does matter.)
You can make a fair argument that Davis should have been in for Bargs, but you can make a case for the opposite too.
This is a gelling year, in which they might, as a bonus, scrape into the play-offs; if you’re expecting anything more, you’re going to be disappointed.
I agree they’ve played well at times but their record is what it is because they haven’t been able to put it together for complete games, most notably end of game breakdowns. I don’t attribute that to not gelling as much as a lack of veteran leadership from AB and JC. With 13 years between them they have an obligation to provide a winning presence but over and over year after year we see the same lack of winning with them having major roles. Change is needed and hoping that Jose and Andrea will provide the force needed looks like insanity at this point.
They deserve to be 3-11….
I agree, you’re not going to win many games putting up 5 or 7 in a quarter…
That said, to your point about veteran leadership, I disagree. I don’t follow the logic of adding the players years to come up with 13. Add Duncan, Ginobili and Parker and you’ve got, what, 45 years there? I just don’t understand the point. But more importantly, assuming guys have an obligation to will their team to win because they’ve been around a while seems a tad unfair. JC has been a great player for the Raptors through the years – our only consistent performer. Even surrounded by dregs, he’s been tops in the league in assists and, as important, among the lowest in TOs. He’s got one of the best AS/TO ratios in NBA history(!), imagine if he had some talent to work with. Every time a new PG has been brought in to save the day, JC has accepted the challenge and handed that person’s ass to them. And has been remarkably professional about it. Maybe at $10 million you could argue he earns too much (s/b $8M?), but it’s pretty much market rate. I hope we trade him for a solid piece at the deadline and he’s back next year as a Raptor.
You’ll get less of a defense of AB out of me. He should be getting more RB. He should be in position for higher % shots. He can be maddeningly inconsistent. But, he’s paid accordingly. He’s a 17-6, 7-footer that can shoot threes (not yesterday!) and free throws and gets $10M. Show me another team in the league led by a guy who’s not in the top 50 paid? http://www.hoopsworld.com/nbas-top-50-highest-paid-players/. He’s a solid second option and he’s still a top-5 best pick from his draft.
You guys need to manage expectations, or it’s going to be a long year. We’re in the bottom five WRT team salary in the league, and in the NBA, you get what you pay for.
/Apologies for the long post.
listen to this fanboy
(clap, clap, clap) Insightful stuff ‘what the.’
I disagree they havent been good enough to win these close games…You have to have fortitude in the last few mins to win these games and this teams folds up like a lawnchair everytime…Common theme with all of these close losses is they cant stop anything defensively..there is a reason for that…right now that reason is the coach is unwilling to do whats needed personel wise in these games to win them…
He is hoping these wins fall in our lap…Hes got to make the adjustments in the individual game until he does you’ll continue these type of losses over and over…
Its a coaching problem no question…
You can’t just say it and make it so. The fact that we’re still in these games against better teams (often on the road) says something. Other than the Bargs in place of Davis call, (..which can be argued either way), what other decisions have been that bad? WWJS(Jerry Sloan)D?
Raptors are a young team (and cheap $$), they’ve had a tough opening schedule (OKC, Boston, SA, Brooklyn…) Lowry was injured, the calls haven’t gone their way (the league admitted as much), and yes, at times they’ve played like utter garbage.
But to complain about coaching after a double-overtime loss to an elite team is absurd. This is the most entertaining b-ball I’ve watched the Raptors play in years. Enjoy it, or you might want to follow another team/sport.
Disagree. The offense stagnates during crunch time because we don’t have the personel to execute once the defense tightens up. The only player on the team who has the ability to really light it up from anywhere on the floor is AB. And that usually doesn’t happen in crunch time. The team is also unable to execute because KL and JC are unable to create open shots for their teammates and nobody is consisently able to create their own shot.
maybe he’s ball hog like Lowry
throw in Calderon too…
why Ed Davis is not playing on OT time? sit Bargniani please!!!!
I was screaming this at my computer. Sean Marks was the only Spur afraid of bargs and he was calling the game and afraid of reverse jinxing AB. He wasn’t helping space the floor at all as he was left wiiiiiiiiiiiide open.
Ask to Casey………..he is a bust……………..I want Jerry Sloan
Didn’t follow that close. Game went into overtime, just enough players played well to keep it close. Eventually they lost. If you lose every game by 4 points in double overtime would that be entertaining to the fans ? At the end of the day you still lost. Tuesday AB will have a good game and a couple other core players will be MIA. It seems to me like something has been structurally wrong for a few years. AB and Jose are just about the only ones left….
O and the game went to double ot and ed could only amass 22 mins but king bargs gets his normal 36. I wonder who is pulling the strings?…..hmmm
You know BC is calling the player rotations for Casey just like with Triano that’s why Casey’s substitution pattern has no flow and is all over the place because he’s not coaching by game feel but by preconceived slotted playing time so that no matter how well a player is or isn’t playing they will usually get their standard rotation minutes for the most part.
Toronto Raptors aka Toronto Bargnanis under BC where starting/playing time is given out not earned through hard work.
Whether Ed is playing good or bad he gets the hook at a predetermined time- heck Ed could have potentially went for 20/20.
The major reason why BC won’t hire an experienced coach like Sloan or McMillian is because they will play the players that they believe will help them win games not because BC signs or drafts them or based on contract dollars thus his control over them would be very limited especially if they are winning games at the same time.
Exactly right about coaching….
Watching this fck casey makes me miss Sam Mitchell ALOT…Only guy that ever held Trashnani accountable out there….Funny he got canned at 8-9 not playing that bum at will and Casey is 3-11 and no talk about him being fired…
actually the rotations were different today. Bargs was pulled at the 6 minute mark of the 3rd quarter and replaced by Ed. He didn’t come back until the 4 minute mark of the 4th when we finally fell behind. You may question keeping him in on in overtime, but Casey made some adjustments.
Everybody seems to be missing the key to the game. JV will be an allstar eventually and we should be happy to have. I hate to say it, but BC did a hell off a job getting this guy.
When Calderon shoots 3-14 and ISN’T the focus then there’s something wrong.
Ed davis playing career best game while Barg shooting 2-19. Barg played all OT while Ed davis on bench. What kind of logic is that?
Ed Davis didn’t play, because Raps have All star – Bargnani!!!!!! c’mon Casey are you blind? 2-19 from the field.
Guys. Anybody who has coached bball, at any level, will never sit the starter in OT. The thought process is that Bargs is better than ED (certainly a concensus around the league) and that is why he starts and plays more minutes. Right or wrong, you have to have faith that your starter, more experienced guy, will come through for you. If you don’t do that, you are conceding to the team, that the starter is the shits and means you have misplaced your trust in him for the last year you were the coach. You also kill the guys confidence.
He sat Bargs for 14 minutes between the 3rd and 4th quarter. No coach in basketball would have sat him in OT. You ride your guy, until you get fired or your guy is traded. That is the way it is.
+1. You don’t even have to coach bball to know this. All you need to do is watch bball…not just the Raptors to know this. That’s the main problem with this forum…to many Raptor fans and not enough bball fans.
there you go again pretending you know anything about basketball…smh
36 minutes when your shooting 2 for 19?? 4 points and 1 assist…no free throws…. couldn’t we leave it at 30 minutes??
Are we that worried about Andrea being so fragile that we can’t take him out when he’s having the worst game of his career?? Not to mention is replacement was having the best game of his career….. ED could’ve went for 20 and 20…..SMH
I argue that leaving Andrea in did more harm to the team (the actual loss), the culture (accountability) and the organization (credibility and obvious coddling of certain players regardless of their on court play)
Andrea Bargnani is NOT Kobe Bryant …..AB is not even an all-star……yet he is treated like “the guy”
Please remember DC has shown to be a good assistant coach…… he has yet to show us that he can be a good head coach in this league.
Dude, first of all I’m not a fan of AB and want him traded ASAP. Second of all your name explains it all…RAPTORFAN…that’s the problem with you and most of the posters on this forum. If you were an actual bball fan instead of a Raptor fan we could discuss this but since you don’t have a f#cking clue what your’re talking about I’m gonna save my breath.
Ed Davis has to feel bad that he can’t get any minutes over a guy shooting 2-19.
The offence went stale after Ed Davis had played for a while, so they brought Bargnani back in in the 4th. Unfortunately, he kept missing. And it wasn’t even close… front rim, back rim, side rim. There wasn’t even one ball that went in and out.
However, he played decent defence. He wasn’t completely useless. Had 5 rebounds in the first quarter, and 3 more for the rest of the game.
DeRozan can’t buy a foul. Lowry had his one hero-ball shot at the worst possible moment. Val was having success posting up, but was completely ignored in overtime. Amir was almost invisible. Calderon had 2 of the worst turnovers you could make.
And that’s the ball game.
Why is Jose the only guy we use for inbounding….After that terrible pass to lowry
Why not use someone else 2nd time ? Just cuz hes a PG doesnt mean hes the best player to use in those situations..One of many coaching blunders…
The reason is simply: Casey. I am convincing that he is not a good coach.
bud it’s simply a case of Casey not knowing his players like the fans
Casey is famously tech-shy right? Maybe he doesn’t even watch much video so he never really benefits from a birds eye view of his players. I’m starting to think he is just too arrogant and lost in his own world. Maybe that’s why he was let go previously even when squeezing a .500 record out of a weak team.
3 rebounds in 3 quarters and 2 OT’s……Lord of mercy!…..DC is going to with this guy “come hell or high water”….LOL
what a brutal game…
It was a good deevelopment game for the Ratpors …. win or lose… lose or win … it doesn’t matter now …!!!!
- when you’re playing the spurs your margin of error is close to zero. you cant expect to win when amir is taking 20 ft jumpshots (even if its only one), or jose is turning the ball over on out of bounds plays, or bargs is acting like he’s superman and the offensive rim is kryptonite (I dont mind him shooting when he’s 1-19 but dude, post up, or move at least closer than 23 ft from the basket). you cant make these types of mistakes and expect to knock off the spurs. every possession counts. you cant be jacking 23 fters within the first 7 seconds of the shot clock when you are trying to hold on to the lead.
- love the way dd is working
- jv looking awesome; my only fear is the dude is gonna hurt himself cuz he’s always going 1000mph;
- I’m sure the alarmists out there are going to continue the ridiculous kl and bayless, mike james comparisons and demand they blow this team up; as much as these losses have been heartbreaking how can you not have some optimism for the future as long as jv develops, dd continues to work and kl works and grows into his role. i continue to say the main priority this season is to let these guys grow together, figure out what we have in ed, develop t.ross and keep jose, amir and bargs as trading bullets in the chamber (with bargs being the last bullet to fill out a need).
- pretty sure the nba has hired wnba refs to call the raptor games. brutal.
I’m not anti-lowry, but he does not have a history of growing into his roles or being shoe-horned into them. He plays how he plays.
Ed is in his third year and outside of today’s amazing game he has not shown much development. We know what we have in him – an energy big off the bench capable of an outlier performance. That’s pretty much every bench player in the NBA.
We’ve been hearing that same ‘let these guys grow together’ refrain since…ever? If this is a nucleus that can’t make the playoffs with JV I’m not sure that his presence is going to make us an elite squad in the next 3-5 years. We simply won’t have enough talent around him. Trouble is, I don’t think blowing it up does us any good either. It just smells like the same mediocrity we’ve enjoyed for the last umpteen years, less VC’s miss at the buzzer and the Bosh-led team that won the division.
good point he plays like he plays but I dont think he has ever had the opportunity/responsibility to be the point guard/leader for the next 2-4 years on a young developing team. I think there is a lot to this role he still needs to learn and I think he will.
I’m not 100% sure we know what we have in ED. I’d like to see him get 25-30 minutes a game to see if he is a guy that gave give you 10+ rebs a game. I’m also not sure I’d characterize ED as an energy guy.
the “let these guys grow together refrain” doesn’t count when you are talking about sonny weems, ajinca and dorsey you actually need pieces in order to develop young talent. you cant say “we’ll we’ve spent the last few years trying to develop belinelli and pops bensu and that hasn’t worked so we might as well blow up the youth movement”.
Its the first time in a while we’ve had decent to good young pieces we can roll forward with. we still need more young pieces but the 2.5 to 3 we have now is more than we had last year. hopefully he have more next year, as well.
ED has had some pretty poor games thus far this season, which led to him getting quick hooks. I’m talking defensively, as we expect nothing from him on the offensive side of the ball. Maybe he does need minutes, maybe he’s lost Casey’s confidence based on what he sees in practice, maybe he’s a situational player, maybe he needs a new home. If he’s not an energy guy, what is he? Does he look like a 25-30 minute starter at the 4 most of the time? With him on the floor and not Bargs you can put a lot more pressure on Derozan.
Re: growth. If we truly have decent-to-good young pieces we should not be losing to very poor teams. We’re only fielding one rookie on the floor and he’s quite good for a rook. We’re just like most NBA teams in that we have a bunch of new faces every year.
I think we overestimate our players because we watch the team so carefully and their positives are amplified. But at the end of the day we aren’t winning with these guys – and we haven’t won in four years. And so my conclusion is that the core talent (Bargs, DD, Lowry) simply isn’t as good as it needs to be to become even a playoff team – never mind one outsiders would consider elite.
So if we don’t win this year then we need to trade, right? which means the ‘grow together’ notion gets trotted out next year when we have new faces galore.
You’re more hopeful than I am. I think we’re looking at many more years of mediocrity.
i think the pieces you potentially grow together with are dd, kl and jv. as much as i like andrea’s talent, i dont think you can consider a 7fter who plays a perimeter game and offers little help defense a core piece. to contend, i think, you need certain pieces. as unique a talent as he is, you dont need a 7fter shooting 3s or trying to take his man off the dribble from 20 ft away. that doesn’t mean you trade him right away or trade him for nothing but i dont think he is a piece of the puzzle.
I’m dont know what ed looks like. I think he has a really high bball iq. he seems to always know where the ball is going to be. i dont think you need both him and amir on the same team.
I also dont think you “need” to trade this year if you dont win. I think winning this year shouldn’t be the benchmark for success. However, if someone offers you a first rounder for jose, I think you jump on that deal, same with amir, although that’s probably/certainly a pipedream. I think bargs you trade for whatever is the most glaring need going into next year if a decet offer is made.
so you have jv, kl and dd to roll forward with and you continue to backfill spots with other young players through the draft and free agency. doesn’t mean jv, kl and dd are going to be the best players on the team in the future but that doesn mean you have a stable of young players, filling in different needs at various stages of development. I love this plan.
ED has a really high bball IQ…don’t think so. CP3, Rondo, Lebron and Nash have really high bball IQ’s. Ed is a good rebounder.
The score was 102-100 Spurs, DeRozan was driving to the basket, DeRozan kicks it out to Bargnani (2-18 shooting) standing behind the 3-point line. Bargnani shoots……….. Bargnani’s final stats was 2-19 shooting….and 8 rebounds…
Why did DeRozan make such a poor decision?
i’m telling we need to trade Demar and Kyle.
You must be smoking the dope stuff!
Not as crazy as it seems as both those guys have value right now. Acquire a lottery pi k or two and await the expiration of Bargs, Kleiza, Fields and Amir. It’s not like this is a core for a playoff team so rebuild and start from scratch with the next GM
cuz AB was wide open and refs weren’t calling many fouls. It was the right play.I know Ab couldn’t hit anything but like they always say “shooters gotta keep shooting”
Because he passed to a teammate who was wide open. Sometimes you have these days. I watched Nash in LA against the clippers a few years ago and he was 2 – 16, 5 turnovers. Guys have these types of games.
What happened is Bargnani heroically tried to overcome his teammates’ epic incompetence and was cruelly sabotaged by the coaches, referees, fans, the city, and the world.
agreed how can bargnani possible win with everyone against him????? Geeze bargs is my hero the way he just shrugs off the immense amount of pressure that is placed on him to become the next dirk/ larry bird.
Welcome to the NBA, #1 draft pick. If I were dirk and Larry I would be insulted! Ask yourself, every year returning to training camp, what has he improved in or develop?
Yes, thank you. Finally someone thinks logically. After pouring his heart and soul out last game the team still lost to the DETROIT PISTONS. King Bargs decided not to waste his efforts anymore. One man cannot pour so much passion and effort into more then one game, it is unhealthy and King Bargs understood that.
You’re an idiot if you don’t think he was trying,,, at both ends,,, but anyone whose been watching the game out of diapers for a while knows that all shooters have horrible shooting games, and it has nothing to do with effort.
No one has 2 for 19 games and no 7 footers….it was epicly bad…
From Wikipedia , ” Hardaway holds the NBA record for the worst single-game shooting performance in NBA history, going 0-for-17 in a 106-102 win against the Minnesota Timberwolves on December 27, 1991 ” and TH was a point guard ( that is worse than a 7 footer having a night off ) .
No it isnt…a 7 footer shooting 11 % is worse than any other position on the floor because at that size your supposed to be shooting the highest pct being closest to the basket….Again Cesco lying thru his ass…
At least Hardaway won the game. Bargs can’t even get a worst in the nba record.
Typically, the taller you are, the higher your FG% should be (because you’re “supposed” to be playing closer to the basket).
But Bargnani being the matchup nightmare that he is, doesn’t need to play close to the basket. He’s that good.
Don’t ever refer to the UTEP 2 Step in the light you are attempting to.
That man was a real baller.
u r an idiot
Big Val’s rebounding in the first 3 quarter was worrying me. He had a great offensive game and only 1 or 2 rebounds. Does that familiar ?? Yes, this is AB Style. I hope this does not get repeated.
Amir Johnson was MIA again The Patterns continues … One good games and 5-6 bad ones and getting paid 6 million. Where is Tom Liston to tell us that Amir is the most efficient offensive player that Raptors have and how he should be one of the leaders of the team !!
Ed Davis was just fantastic. We need to give him time and see what he has to offer. I keep on saying this and we still see nothing !!!
Ross, need more playing time.
AB is done !!! Unless he had the Flu that Amir had last week but I think he is DONE !!!
Does BC has the skill to trade him ?? I do NOT see it.
Big Val actually made some clutch blocks and rebounds during 4th quarter and OT. At least he is showing defensive presence unlike AB
No BC doesn’t have the balls to trade him there’s a difference.
He will trade him if the Raps stay at the bottom of the league . It will all depend what happen when the schedule eases .
I don’t think he can trade him !!! He needs to take back some really horrendous contracts or give up some talents. Looking at this team, the only talents that people might want ( not sure if anyone wants them) is Ed and Ross !!!
Schedule doesnt ease up when ur a bottom 3 team…and they are.
The reason JV didn’t have a double double rebounding is because he was busy boxing out his man to create space for the pasta maker to grab boards. With that said he did let one or two slip out of his hands.
Please refrain from comparing JV and Bargnani. The only thing similar about them is that they’re both 7 ft tall.
No man. When AB box out is bad, when Val does the same thing not. Simply there are the game in which you can’t get 10 rebs, expecially when the teammates grab for you.
Lets not make excuses about boxing out and … We did that for AB for past 6 years and this is where we are right now. PF and Centres are expected to rebound. He had a terrible 3 quarter rebounding performance but turn it around in the 4th and OT.
Do you ever actually watch the games? Please dont ever compare JV to Veggie Lasagna.
You idiot Big Val and AB are nothing alike stfu. Big val is already a good rebounder only thing stopping him from being a great one is strength which will come in time. Only thing stopping AB is hes a lazy soft mofo. Big Val is beast
LOOOOOL, Go F** yourself Pal.
Jonas so far this year is averaging 6 rebounds per game and has played an average of 22 minutes in those games. Increase that to the 36 minute standard measure, and that is about 10 rebounds per game, which isn’t bad for 20-year-old rookie. As he develops and hopefully bulks up, the signs suggest that he will be a decent rebounder and defender.
Players that were shit today:
Players that gave their all
Reason why we lost the game because shit players were fucking shit and Casey had the gall to give major minutes to the shit players.
why are you persecuting the euro’s stop being racist.
Are you blind?
No your just trolling
You must have stocks in Primo!
You are an impostor not the real Pizzaman .
Because Lithuania is in Florida?
Arse has left this entire column for the fans to plant a stake in the pastamaker. Its clear that we no longer require his presence in the starting line up. Hoisting up bricks early in the shotclock, barralling through the lane and smashing into an opposing player for a charge call, shooting an unspeakable percentage from behind the arch. Its time, ladies and gentlemen, for the pastamaker to play bench ball.
JV is developing a strong offensive game which was on display against one of the best PF’s to ever play the game. He rebounds, blocks shots and sets fantastic screens. Ed Davis is a good complimentry piece who in my opinion should start at 4 with our current roster. Nuff fucking said
I said it before and I’ll say it again!
Dwane Casey lost his integrity!! This LOSS is on him!
How can you allow BARGS to shoot 2 for 19??? Where’s the accountability? Bargnani is obviously having an off day and Dwane Casey didn’t reward ED for his fantastic hustle and play…SMH
ED Davis is our best rebounder PERIOD. He led the team in rebounds last year…. He’s not getting treated fairly and not being rewarded for playing HARD.
Pound the Rock my Ass… He lost all credibility this year….He forgot basic rules of winning basketball….
Ride the hot hand and play players who are contibuting Dumbass!!! I swear Dwane C wants to be fired with Bryan C
Accountability is only for certain players on this team NOT everybody…
Best possible outcome for Raptors regarding AB would be for him to have a good season and be traded at the deadline to a team lacking offense for a young prospect or 1st round pick.
Let him come off the bench, and start amir or Ed, they don’t need plays called for them. And Bargs can shoot all day with the 2nd unit and face 2nd unit players. He would be much more effective against. Gives us scoring and someone the opposition will have to focus on!
Where is Pooka or Cesco, I need one of them here to explain what it is that’s going on , give me some stats give me something.
Since you are asking for some stats ( you asked for them , not me ) here they are : AB +/- of zero , everybody else have a minus +/- except for Ross who is +6 . Andrea had 8 rebounds , the most after Davis who had 14 . Oh , I forgot 2/19 in shooting , it must be a franchise record .
So your saying Bargnoodle had a better game than everyone on his team minus T.Ross ?
I never said that . Somehow , the team has a certain offensive power with him on the floor even if he has a horrible shooting game . How important is spacing ? plus in this game he was defending very well otherwise he would have sat on the bench in overtime .
+- is a terrible indicator for performance. On/off, reb%, assist ratio, usage are all better stats to use to analyze a bad game.
he KNOWS that bruh he just an idiot fan of a player and not the team he NEEDS to defend crap or else his life is worthless…
Every educated basketball fan knows +/- is worthless as a player evaluation….Any bum in this league could have a good +/- if he plays with good players….
His defending at HIS best is ok by league standard SUBPAR…
What offensive power does the team have with him shooting 2 of 19 ?
He doesnt sit on the bench because Casey is BC’s lapdog….Theres no way to justify it beyond that…
Thank you Cesco I knew there had to be some STAT franchise player record you say.
So Ross with his +6 was the best Raptor today?
Plus- minus is useless for one game.
Why defend an effort that contributed to a loss more than to a win?
It’s because the team winning is less important to you than watching your hero no matter how crappy he is at doing his job.
Exactly and Ross played what 10 mins lol
stick these +/- up your you know what and never bring again
Poor decisions, poor basket in crunch time. We do not know how to play in those situation. The Spurs showed us who plays the real efficient basketball game.
AB was awful offensively and for the first time he played a good defensive game better than offensive. Unfortunately he had plenty of shots to win the game. 2-19 was brutal.
DeRozan and Lowry are suspect in those situations but I have to give credit to Kyle when after the mistake in inbound situation hit a three point shot.
For me the real loser is Casey. When you see your big fella struggling, no matter what you think or desire, you have to put on the floor who is playing well, this time ED.
I have seen many idiotic decisions by Casey. This time was putting on the floor AB. Really bad decision.
I know that is not going to happen but if I was the GM I would fire him for a reliable and experienced coach, like Sloan.
What I saw was Andrea Bargnani…. Okay dude your jump shot is not going. So put the ball on the floor and attack the rim!!. All those shots he took in today’s game, the lane was open and he refuses to drive to lane. I don’t know I can’t lie I was a Bargnani supporter, but watching him play I finally realize he’s not smart player and he’s very lazy and very selfish. I rather effort guys at the 4 spot jus saying….
Blair missed a couple of lay-ups and Pop sat his ass down for the entire game. Now, that’s a coach I can trust.
Don’t worry dude there are a lot AB13 backsliders in hiding today you know the Multi-Paul type aint that right Cesco
If you say he was lazy in this game then one of two things , you didn’t watch the game or you are retarded . He went to the basket a few times , the first time Duncan committed a foul but the referee ignored it . The second time , he got an offensive charge , upset by the non-call in the first one . A few other times he went to the basket and failed to score . Watch the game again and you will see that is true and he was not lazy on defense .
I admire your stubborness sticking up for a player following one of the worst shooting displays in franchise history. Bargnani can do no wrong.
Reggie Evans is stealing his jumpshot too.
how is he lazy and selfish because that is not the game i saw today. His offensive game was poor but he did try to do other things.
Bronas: I’m hesitant to pin the loss on Bargnani when the majority of his misses were bad luck rather than dumb shot selection, but we’ll not be winning many games where our best scorer is shooting 10% and isn’t good at anything apart from shooting to begin with. Lowry and Calderon were also collectively dominated by Parker in the guard matchups, particularly in the all-important endgame. And Matt Devlin still won’t stop complaining about the refs. But overall, the Raptors definitely showed up to play, with some cohesive team defense and big games from DeMar, Bronas and Davis. Hey, Terrence Ross even made a shot!
Yet another loss is hard to swallow, but taking a team as strong as the Spurs to two overtimes? We’re the Toronto Raptors. I’ll take the result and just be glad Parker didn’t dunk over Bargnani or anything.
No blog link? Too bad
AB had 8 rebounds. Thats what I want from my PF. Im pretty happy.
… obviously kidding – he was gawd awful. Oh wait a second, we should care about how AB performs on offensive and not his rebounding stats, since his game is offense and nothing else? … right.
Great effort by Ed, horrible by AB and JC. Too bad, we could have snuck it out.
Ed Davis 23mins, 15pts/14rebs, that’s what I want from my starter. Oh wait, he came off the bench? dammmmmmm.
Where were you when bargnani had his good games. This game is agreeably his worst offensively but he did try to do other things. I knew all the haters were gonna come out and try to prove a point.
What good games?
I was here on Friday when he played his good game this year and the team still lost and he still didnt rebound….now what ?
Why are you guys fans …go watch the leafs lol
AB is on the plane………………………..
FAQ says that he would love to be traded but I do not think that for a minute . He will bounce back in grand fashion and help the team fight for a playoff spot .
BC still thinks AB can grow into the franchise “go-to” guy. BC doesn’t have the creativity, savvy, or just plain competency, to realize what everyone can plainly see.
A team cannot become a contender with the role that BC envisions for Bargnani, because Bargnani cannot fill that role.
2 reasons: Endowment Effect and Sunken Cost
Reason why BC won’t trade Bargnani
We don’t need to trade AB, we just need to put him in a better role to utilize him better. Cause when things get rolling, you’re going to need a guy to come in and just plain score. When he’s hot, its lights out, ex; detroit game. When he’s a fairy, today(spurs) you need to sit him and play the hot hand. and all you need to tell him is. Go play and shot as much as you want, until I(coach) feel fitting to take you out.
now let me smoke soma dat
I was at the game – great game for the fans. Duncan and Parker showing some vintage moves in a game in which Los Spurs never really pushed themselves beyond 75% capacity.
As for the Raps… (without checking a box score so this is only the eye test):
Bargnani – D – his man to man defense on Duncan was a bright spot and earned him a B, his rebounding was ok (meaning I didn’t notice him not rebounding), his help defense and awareness was complete shit. In the first overtime lowry was switched onto Duncan under the basket and Bargnani did not look to switch back until he heard Lowry’s 4th yell at him. I can’t wait until he is traded for a wing, SF, SG or chicken, doesn’t matter. His shooting was terrible. Not all his shots were bad but in the 3rd and 4th quarter the Bargnani jump shot show killed the flow of the offense.
Calderon – C – Moved the ball well early in the game and set up both easy looks and hockey assists repeatedly. His defense is a liability, an extra liability in the two PG set and today we lost something without a proper wing to drive, shoot and board and exploit the mismatch on the wings. I’d have preferred to see Ross late in the game. That said, if a few more of Jose’s shots fall he gets a B+.
Davis – A – he was a force today and a joy to watch. Great energy at both ends and was able to deal with anyone who attacked the basket. Needs to get more burn and learn to stay down.
Amir – C+ – was solid early and then faded after some butterfingers and dumb fouls.
Lowry – C+ – if he’s a leader he needs to lead more and do it by looking to set the team up first and look for himself last. If only he had Jose’s brain! His rebounding and attacking off the dribble was great and great late. He took a lot of 3s but some were in late clock situations and necessary.
JV – B – great game on O. Really has the potential to be a great offensive player, good hands, great instincts and a jumper that needs to be respected. If only he was an understudy to Duncan and not Bargnani. I feel like docking Bargnani for just being around JV. That said… Duncan schooled, and I mean seriously educated, the Lithuanian, in the post. JV should watch this game every night for a month and do everything that Duncan does. D on defense but he’s a rook and was great on offense (and it was telling that he, and not Veggie Lasagna, was back on Duncan in OT).
EMar – B+ – his offensive game was excellent. Shooting in rythem, exploiting the lack of Kawhai leonard, attacking the basket, posting up. The stats will look inefficient but that’s a product of not finishing (ESP with his left hand) and not getting calls. He was the only guy in white shorts who created offense on his own (possible exception of Eddie with his 2nd and 3rd efforts). Defense was adequate at best but ginobili/Neal did not win this game.
TRoss – C – not bad, not great, but I liked th look with him and EMar better than the two PG set which I hate. Kleiza would have been a good on to use – don’t think Diaw could have taken him in the post and can’t think who else would have.
If anyone else played I can’t remember them.
It’s hard to edit posts on an an iPad so two clarifications… D
1. avis needs to stay down and use his length to defend. Parker got him in the air with a clever up and under.
2. EMar was not the only one creating for himself – Lowry did as well. Lowry seems to pound the ball a lot but unlike Jose is able to exploit the seams that open up. I miss the Jose from the TJ Ford team, the one who had the legs to turn the corner. That Jose was a much better PG than Lowry. This Jose is not but can we please call off the Lowry parade/circle jerk? He’s above average but not a star. It was a good trade because he has a great contract but he is not an all star.
Posting this all to fill in for Arsenalist.
Hope the grey cup is as entertaining!
“If he (Lowry) only had Jose’s brain!” Is that ever true.
Not going to reply to one specific comment but this one’s on Casey again!!! Bargs(I am a fan) played active but couldn’t hit a shot to save his life and when he gets open looks he’s going to shoot, he shouldn’t have seen any time in the 4th or OT. Also, why was Calderon seeing so much floor time? Ross could’ve spread the floor the same and actually been useful on D. Why does Calderon help so much a give his man so many wide open looks.
forgot to mention that Ed killed it tonight and should have seen at least 30mins in the wake of Andrea’s horrible shooting night.
The problem with Andrea is he had 1 FT attempt. He had a lot of wide open looks tonight that he just missed. I felt that to start the third he needed to attack the basket and he starts taking long twos. Dude needs to get to the line, you can’t go 2-19 and not go to the line. Casey should have benched him in the 4th and its on Casey really. Nobody including Andrea himself would have blamed him if he did it. Calderon can’t get to the rim at all anymore. There was one play where he was right there wide open and he kicked it out for a 3 for some reason. I find him and Lowry to not be a good backcourt for any long stretch of time. Derozan…not a good night either. Amir mailed it in again for the most part like usual. had a couple plays and a lot of nothing.
It is amazing that they stayed within reach all game considering the play of the Raptor vets Bargnani and Calderon. Both of them were atrocious and replacing them with anyone on the bench, even at the end of the bench would have been an improvement. Even so the two interviews at Raptors.com are with the longest serving tandem. I guess the PR people still think they are the fans most popular players. Listening to their interviews and knowing they are the supposed veteran leaders of the team makes it kind of obvious why the Raptors need to live in the present and put the old guard where they belong, hopefully on a flight outta here.
The game was as entertaining as I’ve been finding most of their games of late. Some very good basketball, for my money. Effort was definitely there. Once again. (I’m sure the bashers are having a good time crapping on them from great heights – scanned a quick look only – but personally, I remember too many games in previous years when I thought afterwards, “if they at least played with some heart, I’d be happy.” Well … this is me being ‘happy’. You know … somewhat.)
Going toe-to-toe with the Spurs any day of the week is a large task and the Raps were mostly up to it. Valanciunas was fantastic! Unbelievable game for a rookie. When it was over, Tim Duncan made a point of going straight to him to say something in his ear; whatever he said – something very complimentary, no doubt – it was well deserved. Ed Davis was unbelievably good for a stretch or two. Got himself a very quick double-double. Bargnani was as cold as a witch’s heart. Colder than that. He couldn’t-have-hit-water-if-he-was-falling-out-of-a-boat cold. Didn’t stop him from shooting though and with every shot, everyone in the building was thinking ‘this is the one that’ll go’ … and … nope. Colder-than-ice cold. Too bad. Extra disappointing after the terrific game he had in Detroit, Friday. Haven’t looked at the stats but Jose was on the very-cool side himself for much of the game. Did hit one or two including a three (I think) when I wasn’t looking but … when I was looking, there were a lot of misses. A lot.
All in all, I’m not complaining. Hell of a game. Raps are a much better team than their record, I don’t care what anybody says. And I think they’re getting a little bit better all the time. I believe that a good run is in the not too distant future. (Really. Call me crazy but I think that.) Go Raps.
” they’re getting a little bit better all the time ” . They are better than their record indicate for 46 minutes of the game , the last 2 minutes is what kills them ( plus the refereeing ) . And you are not crazy , things will improve as the team mentality get stronger . Winning a close game against a good team may be the watershed they need .
Close losses to Charlotte and Detroit should not be a morale boost….
I have labeled #7, for years on here, as the worst draft pick in franchise history–still scratch at my head at NOT picking Rudy Gay!!!! I digress…every dog has its day and it’s time for that dawg to go to a very far away–you’re time is about up!
4th Quarters are won by controlling the glass because the team with the most shots usually wins, because most players a la #7 stiffen up and change their mechanics by speeding up under the pressure–which is why the dude can’t buy a jumper, free throw nuthin’ in the 4th Q–lacks heart, passion, grit, leadership…Butch Carter is looking the basketball don that he is with his comments last week–forget Jerry Sloan, I’d like to see the best coach in Raptors HIStory make a comeback with VINCE CARTER–YES, I SAID IT!!!
yeah, why didn’t we take rudy gay? he went #2 right? he didn’t?! wait he went #3 for sure. no, not #3. then he had to go for 4. he didn’t go 4 either?! I thought he was a no brainer at #1. he went #8?!?!
we should have taken rondo #1. that was suuuuch an easy call to make. it was either bargs or rondo with the #1 pick and we picked bargs. rondo went #2, right? of course no one here would have taken brandon roy with the #1 pick.
yeah, and lets bring back a 36 year old vince so he can teach the kids to be bitches and collapse on the floor for 5 minutes writhing in fake pain every time someone nudges him. yeah, why dont we trade for alonzo again, too.
I’m not defending bargs, but lets stop pretending we have all the answers. casey hasn’t had a good start to the season but remember the triano dynasty and remember how much better the defense was last year under casey. I’m not saying casey is untouchable but I’m willing to give a coach more than 12 games before we start playing rent-a-coach. stop acting like such drama queens.
I guess Casey’s tenure in Minnesota wasn’t a fluke, he really is that bad
KG wanted him out,you can see why with every passing loss….
ED scored most of his points in a 9 minute segment in the first half. Even Leo, whom I never listen to, said he doesnt get more minutes because he will give you the same totals whether he plays 10 minutes or 25. Believe it or not, his perdiction was true because other than rebound in the 2nd half, Ed did nothing
Umm it was true cuz Ed never played in the 4th or OT….
Thanks Destro, and I must say EmarErozan hit the nail on the head with his analysis. Btw I follow this site religiously and these are my first ever posts. Just a thanks guys, you ARE appreciated out here in the Maritimes.
Bargnani 2-19, DeRozan 11-28, Calderon 3-14 and Lowry 6-16.
Despite all we lost after two OT’s. What a shame.
Against Pistons: Bargnani 13-20, DeRozan 2-9, Lowry 6-17 and Calderon 1-2, lost by 1
Against Bobcats: Bargnani 9-17, DeRozan 6-13, Lowry 6-15 and Calderon 2-8, lost by 1
Against Sixers: Bargnani 10-21, DeRozan 8-18, Lowry 5-14 and Calderon 5-10, lost by 8.
When one plays well, the others play pretty bad and viceversa. When we see the guys score pretty well at the same time? Never?
You know 70 moral victories (like today) may get us a top 3 pick )
This Draft is terrible. With our luck we will get Noels (poor man’s Anthony Davs) or and lose out on Wiggins and Parker
I rememeber calderon used to get a lay up occasionally off a dribble penetration, now he can’t get to the rim at all and if he does he gets blocked. There was one sequence today where I swear he was right there at the rim wide open and tossed it out to the perimeter for another missed shot. Regardless he can’t defend, and playing him with Lowry has been a pretty big failure so far.
I’d trade Bargnani for a JJ Reddick type of player. Reddick+McRoberts for Bargnani works. Ed moves up to the starting lineup, McRoberts backs up, and Reddick would be our Steve Novak “bombs away” player.
JV has heart and a lot of potential. Trade Andrea NOW. He needs to go ASAP. Lowry is a star point guard. DeRozen is playing great. We need a leader and a finisher. We have the potential to be a great team very soon. We know Jose is going to get traded this year so package him with Andrea and lets get a leader.
This forum has turned into a shit show. Its turned into personal vendetta about who to blame.
The biggest problem with the raptors is the small forward position. With basically have zero to no production on out of that position. If we had a guy average 12 points and 7 rebounds we basically won half of our games. The other nice thing is if we could tank this year and get a top 3 pick. THis needs more talent at the wing position period.
THis is what we should have done last year. TANK!!! The raptors need some talent at the small forward spot. Every game no production and we still almost win. Please give us shabbaz!!
I’ll be laughing when King Bargs gets traded to a real team and starts torching the Raps each time he plays them. the haters will be quivering in their panties. King Bargs shitting on you dumb punks
AB would get benched on most other teams for the things hes allowed to do here….Remmeber Sam Mitchell ?? YEP
Who’s cornflakes did Derozen sh/t in to have so many missed foul calls against him game after game. The uproar from the Raptors should be deafening by this point. But just like the 4TH quarter of a game, hardly a whimper is heard.
I dont always agree with, or understand all of what the Raptors coaching staff ahve done this season, but I don’t think that any of us or Casey thought that AB would eventually go 2 of 19 for the game. It’s easy in hindsight to say, but the reality is that 2/19 wasnt the stat line partway through the game. I’d be rich if I knew the Lotto Max numbers when I bought the tickets, but until the draw, we dont know the outcome. It’s obvious to me the next day that I picked all the wrong numbers. If AB has 34 one night and is cold the next, you have to figure he’s going to get going (to some degree) next shot. If any of us armchair coaches could have teleported in from the post game, and slipped Casey a note saying “AB’s going 2-19 if you leave him in.”, then I bet he would have put Davis in for more minutes. Until the game ends, the final box score doesnt exist to make choices by. Davis has had some mediocre games where he’s looked pasive and disinterested, so as good a game as he had (and I’m really glad to see how he played), I cant say that he should be getting Andrea’s minutes at this point.
i’m telling we need to trade JV, He had only few rebounds
D-League Refs AGAIN!!!!
Bargs is NOT a PF… he’s a PA … Power Arc-er ….LOL
i hope bargs continues to go 2-18 and then stops playing d….then you fucking idiots can get your wish for ed davis to start,lol,… and bargs traded BETTER YET AMNESTY HIM,LOL….I CANT WAIT.get this guy away from you morons.
Typical Joshua Reynolds. Putting Bargnani’s interests ahead of the team.
Fanboyism is now bordering on mental illness…
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Would you trade Kyle Lowry for the 14th pick in the upcoming draft?
Wow this sucks. The tank job has just been put into nitro-mode.
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