Raptors 99, Jazz 131 – Box

I’ll have you know that the Jazz were without Al Jefferson and Derrick Favors, and had Paul Millsap in foul trouble for a large period of the first half and yet managed to, somehow, out-rebound the Raptors 51-41, while collecting 15 offensive rebounds and scoring 131 points, the highest conceded by the Raptors this season.  Perhaps a scientific study with control groups and such should be sanctioned right away to find out just how this can possibly happen? Or perhaps the empirical and statistical evidence compiled thus far is sufficient to identify the culprit of such inadequacies to be a sorely lacking Raptors defense, peppered with a dash of laziness.

Let me run you through the first half and a bit, as that was how long this one lasted.  The visitors started off fairly well, and it appeared that the absence of Jefferson and Favors had injected some confidence into the unit, as the Raptors were clearly the better team.  To help advance the cause, Paul Millsap picked up two fouls and Valanciunas and the Raptors did well to go at him to get some points on their way to a 10-point lead.  The Jazz interior game was more or less shot after that, with Enes Kanter as their main big.  The Raptors were buzzing, Mickael Pietrus hitting threes, Andrea Bargnani shooting every time he touched it, and the backcourt of DeRozan and Lowry clicking well together to keep the ball moving.

The party ended shortly as the Jazz realized that with their bigs missing, a different approach was needed against the bigger Raptors frontline.  Enter forth small ball, and the Jazz lineup of Hayward, Marvin Williams, Carroll, Millsap, and Mo Williams, deconstructed the Raptors defense to full effect, with wide-open threes stemming from excellent ball movement being the watermark of the attack (Jazz were 13-23 3FG!).  The Raptors response you ask? Not much, certainly nothing from a strategic point of view.   A lineup of Bargnani, DeRozan, Ross, Valanciunas/Johnson, and Lowry, was used for a bit until Lowry got injured which is when Calderon came in.  Whatever Casey tried, he couldn’t quite match the Jazz’s perimeter quickness and with the defense not communicating, giving up penetration, and being in a generally confused sort of state, the Jazz scored when they wanted.

The Raptors were all too much in a hurry to urge their own demise, as turnovers started springing up in the unlikeliest of situations and under minimal pressure. The transition defense to counteract those turnovers was obviously not there, so it became a layup-line for the Jazz starting in the second and ending at the final buzzer. The first play of the third quarter is telling of the mentality the two teams came out with. The Jazz ran a crisp double-screen to free up Foye for an open three, whereas the Raptors dumped it to Bargnani on the corner and he took a standstill jumper which was missed. How a deep two with no ball movement was our first play of the third quarter shows you either the quality of the halftime talk, or the attention being paid to it.

I think I saw a zone in the third quarter, but it made no matter, the damage of the second quarter when the Jazz completed a 24-point turnaround (from down 10 to up 14) was always going to be difficult to overcome.  Nay, impossible to overcome because the team seems to have given up.  Maybe they’ve given up on the roadtrip, or on the coach, or maybe on each other, I don’t know.  I do know that the effort out there wasn’t honest, and I realize it only takes a slight nudge to fall down when you’re already reeling, but that’s where character is to be relied on for support.   That character is what I associate with Casey and, perhaps mistakenly, with this team.  It was nowhere to be found and the Raptors bent the knee in submission.

I don’t want to go too much into individual performances, because the Raptors collectively failed as a team on defense and were, to a man, selfish on offense – always looking for their own.   When the blowout was made official in the third by having the game shoved down their throat, and even during the fourth when the tea-bagging was complete, was when the accusing glances were most noticeable, the body language defeated, and the belief gone.  Entirely.  There’s even no need talking about Terrence Ross’ thwarted playing time, and how after having an effective first half he didn’t see the court till a minute left in the third.  I cannot find an explanation other than Casey perhaps saving him for Game 7 of the NBA Finals.

As the Jazz were expanding on their lead in the third with the team looking completely defeated and deflated, Casey didn’t even bother calling a timeout. Even the conservative Jack Armstrong couldn’t help but scratch his head at Casey’s willingness to “let them play”. A team which has shown the type of weakness of character and resolve as the Raptors have cannot be hoped upon to recover themselves. I’m far from suggesting a timeout in the early third could’ve won this game, but it sure would’ve given pause to the proceedings and maybe some time for the team to reflect upon the fact that they were getting blown out by a team that had no business winning this.

This was a game that was there to be taken if the team had decided to play 48 minutes of basketball.  Instead, they came out early and found some success as the Jazz were finding themselves.  They mistook that success as the norm for the night and inexplicably downshifted.  The Jazz did the rest.

The Quick Reaction has more.

Here’s a quick rundown of general impressions of the notables so far this season.  Nothing too statistical.

Bargnani – He don’t give a shit and this doesn’t bother him.  Look at him on the court for more than 60 continuous seconds and you know everything you need to about the guy.

Valanciunas – His character is to be respected even if the results have been varied.

Lowry – A point guard is the captain who has to stabilize the ship when the waters are choppy.  When he’s hitting his shots he can run with the team, when he’s not, he disrupts it function.  There’s no in-between.

DeRozan – Wants to be the man on the team, is aggressive enough to do it and plays the right position for it, but is some time away to actually start carrying the team, which is what he ends up trying to do too often.

Ross – Finding his role and taking his time in doing so.  There’s no hurry here, he can take the rest of the season to figure things out.

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  • Nilanka

    Is the season over yet? Looking forward to OKC’s pick…

    • Phat AlberG

      It’s lottery protected 

      • Matt52

         No, it is top 3 protected and PLAYOFF protected.

    • FAQ

      BC will make several strategic trades and will be talking about the playoffs with the “new and improved” Raptors…. just watch…!!!!

    • KJ-B

      Honestly the outcome of the Raptors is the contrast of styles of play… You have -7, Calderon who want to run iso pick n rolls to the end of the time, then you have the rest of a young and vibrant core who wants to get up and down…

      Calderon and -7 have lost their role on the team as leaders but still dictate waay too much of the play through their bromance… It’s time for them to go and CHOOSE A STYLE OF PLAY!!!

      Portland plays one way, Memphis plays one way, San Antonio, New York (without Amare) MIA/LAKERS can play however they feel, OKC…get the point?!

      The Raps play two ways, when -7 has the ball in his hands (usually from a pick n pop) and when he does not…The Raptors are in the Black Hole that they let -7 create for them…OH WELL, serves you right BryCo/MLSE for tryna reinvent the wheel of NBA HOOPS!!!!!!!!!!!!

      • KJ-B

        By contrast Ty Corbin is a Jerry Sloan disciple and they’ve been playing the same way in Utah for 20 years!  So, when a team like that, bench players especially, meet a team struggling for an identity like the Raps, plays play the system and not the other team…basically, those guys like Kanter, Carroll were all just auditioning for their coach to get more PT!  

        Kanter was drafted #3 overall and still has to earn “floor time” by playing “the right way.”  Does the Raptors organization get NBA philosophy???

  • JHP

    Well it should have been expected.  I truly believe we have a shot at 15/67.  If we can split the games with the other bottom three teams and stay focused we have a change.  Now will we get a top 3 pick, I suspect not but it should be BC’s finally legacy.  A record no one will ever beat. Of course he will get an extension, blame the coach and fire him.

  • Alb Perjet

    Casey better be in the hot seat!

    • KJ-B

      Too funny lol!!!  

      I just think this guy hasn’t figured out the role of a Head Coach…the only way to discipline grown men who are professional athletes are not through close door grievances but through playing time — Plain & Simple … everybody and their distant cousin knows that -7 should’ve been benched way more than he has, that Kyle Lowry NEEDS to think twice about hero ball BUT the guy they’ve got as Head Coach?!

      • KJ-B

        What he got last night was straight up DISrespect!  His “kids” aka his players basically did whatever they felt like because there is no real consequences or discipline for “going rogue” … -7 been doing it for years, lately Lowry–last night it was practically the entire team… TAKE IT like a man DWANE!!!

        • Alb Perjet

          I agree KJ-B. What that sais is theis coach can’t controll this team. Its time for a change, thanks for the pound the rock mentality but we dag our selves into a mine, now we need a new coach to dig us back out.

  • Milesboyer

    Arse, how you found the motivation to write 10+ paragraphs on this sad, sad team is a testament to your devotion. I suggest we all pursue a more satisfying hobby because following the Raptors at this point borders on the verge of insanity.

  • Iron Dutchman

    I stopped caring about this shitty team 3 years ago! Wake me up when we get a new GM.

    • Matt52

       Yet you are still here.

  • Gman

    This teams heart is busted.  The close losses coupled with the fact that the refs jobbed them in so many games…twelve games in the Raps had shot 72 less free throws and then in the next game the NBA actually admitted they screwed the pooch in that crucial loss.  

    I think you have a team that you have to do something radical to reawaken their belief in themselves and the team.  Bargnani out of here makes the most sense…that and Casey potentially being put on hiatus.  I think you need to make it clear that you’re changing streams and then put the effort into developing the rookies.  

    Don’t pick up Gasol…please for the love of all that is holy don’t.  Get prospects for Bargnani and Calderon.  Serious prospects if you can.  If not from this draft then from the next few.  

    • mountio

      Im with you. This team is hard to watch (and its even hard to get excited about posting on this site .. my spirit is busted). 
      We HAVE to go for the top 3 pick this year. I like trading AB for whatever prospects we can get (or picks). Pick/prospect + top 3 pick, + KL, DD, JV, T Ross, Ed (maybe .. lets give him 25-30 mins a game and see) and maybe we have something. But Ho-lee .. this team aint got nothing right now. 
      Also, as much as we need some form of continuity .. Casey is an idiot, so he might have to go too. This is depressing .. 

      • Jamshid

        If you were a GM would you trade picks and prospects for AB ?

        • Matt52

           Nope which is why Toronto has to facilitate any trade with LA.  It really is the only hope in my opinion.  And if NO decides to part with Anderson, well, pardon my french, we’re fucked.  There is no other way to put it without sugar coating it.

          • Jamshid

            You are right. 

            For me , the benefit of the trade for Pau is two things:
            1) Help Big Val’s post game development and passing skills.2) Free up 20+ million of our Cap room in 2 years !!I personally don’t think we can even compete with Pau and I don’t even care if we do as long as we get the above 2 things accomplished. NO is not going to let Anderson goes. I will be very surprised if they do.I am more worried about Wolves and Denver. I like both their packages better than what are offering if in fact, they are offering those players based on ESPN 710. 

        • mountio

          Yes. Dont get me wrong … Im not expecting a high first rounder or something like that. But, do I think an expiring contract + an ok young player or + a mid to late first rounder is possible? Absolutely yes. Would I do that deal? Absolutely yes. 

    • Jamshid

      “Get prospects for Bargnani and Calderon.”
      How exactly ?? Why would any GM in the league give you prospects for PF who can only do one thing good and has been exposed and is clearly over paid ???
      Look at Jose’s numbers !! It sucks this year. Why would any GM give you prospects for his contract ?
      The same goes for Kleiza, Amir and Fields and to some extend DD.

      BC has over paid these players and it will be hard to get any ” real prospects” back for any of these contracts.

      If he manages to do that, then he deserves to keep his job.

      P.S. Where is Fields now ?? BC was getting lots of heat for over paying a scrub like Fields and then suddenly Fields disappears and the herd is off BC’s back 🙂 Funny how things work themselves out sometimes.

      • NyAlesund

         Is Bargnani overpaid? Is DeRozan overpaid? Is Fields overpaid? Is Calderon overpaid? Is Lowery is going to be overpaid? Maybe.

        The point is simply: these players are better than they are appearing now. Now, they are playing far from their potential.

        We can trade everyone for good pieces or perhaps for rookies and prospects but the real question for me is the fact that we don’t have a real great coach in Toronto. Sorry but Casey, Triano, Mitchell are not exactly the first caliber coaches.

        BC has to realize that a yes man is not pay dividend. BC has to realize that this team needs a real commander in chief. BC has to realize that we can afford good son and bad son.

        Untill we have Casey that doesn’t have an idea on rotations, starting five……….we can’t expect nothing good.

        We need an experienced coach able to change something before it is too late.

        • Theswirsky

           the problem is not, and has never been, the coaches.

          Problem #1 – Bryan Colangelo

          Problem #2 – Andrea Bargnani

          Problem #3 – Problem #1’s hard on for problem #2

          • Johnnys

             plus the successful sales job.

          • NyAlesund

             Well Triano it wasn’t a coach.
            If AB is the most talented player of the team it means that who iss in charge didn’t do the job properly.

            • Matt52

               This season has definitely been validation for Triano.

              After last season, JT was not looking good.  But after last season, DC is now not looking good either.

              Which raises the question: is it the coaches or the person assembling the rosters who is also picking the coaching?


  • Jamshid

    Raptor fans should be realistic. I hear people screaming to fire Casey and bring Jerry Sloan or Jeff Van Gundy ?? Are you kidding me ? Do you think these guys want to coach this team !!!
    The other guy screams nuke this team and only keep Val and Ross !!! How easy you think it is to move these contracts ?? For some of them you have to pay for people to take them which means losing more picks and  …

    The problem with this team was not created this past summer but is a result of bad management over 7 years so it will take few years before we can clean this mess and start back at where we were the summer that BC came ( 2006). 

    Yes, we are at the negative now and it will be few years to get to zero.

    • cesco

      Lol , ” only keep Val and Ross ” . You realize that the two rooks still have to prove FOR SURE they are the foundation of the team going forward . Not one player on this team is a sure thing so keep or trade this or that guy will not resolve anything . BC will have to stay the course although he may get lucky and get a multiple players trade that will reinforce the team . Of course , the ‘ trade-Bargnani-and-the-problem-is-solved ‘ comments will soon appear below , guaranteed .

      • p00ka_is_a_fish

        trade bargnani and the problem is solved

      • what the

        So you want us to go back to the same failed policy that got us here in the first place ,the Republican Party has [oops wrong topic]

        • cesco

          So what is the failed policy ? At the start of the season BC and Casey gave the keys of the team to Lowry , almost everyone was getting  giddy about the playoffs prospects . The first warning came at the OKC game where Mr Hero was playing like shit before his injury ( as everybody else on the team ) , lately it seems that Mr Hero is not carrying the team to a win , the last win occurred because Andrea made key defensive plays in the last 2 minutes . Tell me again about what policy you have in mind .

          • what the

            The failed policy is you can’t build on shit around shit in shit cause it’s gonna ((((((stink))))) like it is now but if one is willing to dump a couple of load shit (Dribble and AB13) and start building over with a Val and Ross

      • tmk

        Well I would say that’s the point of keeping JV and Ross, because they are unproven. You need young unproven guys. They could turn out to be nothing more then role players, or they can be solid starters or more, you just don’t know.

        However, you do know what you have in everyone else, and I think that’s the only reason they’re sellable versus JV and Ross. It’s not necessarily because they’re clearly superstars, but because they’re at least some unknown, cheap, hard working, and “unpolluted” young guys.

    • redyraptor

      I’ve watched this city cover this hockey lockout as if it was some great development whilst the rest of the world clearly doesn’t give a shittttt. Not once have I seen BC in some urgent sort of press conference to explain y his 7years project has brought nothing to the city. Even if he has been trying trmendously he has failed and should be held accountable. Clearly I’m seeing now why Twolves fired casey. He’s been outcoached I would say in more than 5 games now. Seriously out coached. Finally bargs don’t care attitude is clearly showing. And lowry seems to want to rip bargs head off. Calderon n bargs are stuck in their ways and lowry wants to bring n upbeat agressive style raps. I sense there’s a little locker room prb going on. Lowry is not much of a leader. He rather have everyone on the same page and he leads by example let’s say. Please BC. Do somethinggg. Make some kind of trade. Coaching or our PF spot. When ur PG constantly gets moreeeeeeeeeeeee rebounds than ur PF ur team is in bigggggg trouble. Start small. With trading bargs for some grit.

      • unknown guest

        “I’ve watched this city cover this hockey lockout as if it was some great development whilst the rest of the world clearly doesn’t give a shittttt.”

        You’d think MLSE would get a clue and try to grow the Raps fanbase. 

    • Phat AlberG

      The players do not respect this guy because he can’t coach! He can’t coach they should never hired this guy in the first the place.  He has no idea about X’s and Os, dude watch the game he’s a terrible coach.  

      • guest

        Big losses you fault the players, not good enough or not trying hard enough. loses in close games the blame is goes to the coach!  Too many close games force you to look at the coaching.

  • jdub

    Yup I have to agree that the Raps simply gave up. I’m not gonna bash Casey for not calling a timeout because frankly it hasn’t made a difference in previous games. Timeout, no timeout. These guys are going out there expecting to lose and that’s what’s happens. Luck is a byproduct of effort and there’s no fight left in these guys. Lowry said they were 5 feet under. Call it an official 6.

    I’m no expect on rebuilds but this is a culture thing. You look at San Antonio and Utah and you see organizations that have systems and principles. You need the right people in the right places. Why aren’t the Raptors looking to those blueprints for success?

    • Rayden

      You guys are all overreacting. Might I remind you that Raptors lost a LOT of hearbreaker close games. There’s only so many of thos you can take before spirit gets crushed. Granted they do need a genuine star and this season is done but i saw this blowout coming after all the disheartening losses. I dont think firing the coach is the answer…Case is fine and cant make open jump shots that raptors missed ALL night. As far as BC is concerned – he’s not a bad GM. He didnt have a great start with the VC trade. Got unlucky with bargnani trade (there are no guarantees with draft…even JV could be a bust in a few years…look at Ogden pic, brandon Roy…lots of things can happen. Here’s what I think is wrong – -#1 need to attract free agents with money. To get something going, you need a kick start. Ownership needs to throw some money…get mediocre and momentum will carry. Secondly, need a better player seceloent environment. I bet bargnani wouldve turned out different i he had garnett or dirk around him. Get some true winners and hard workers in there. I think AB slacked this summer and it shows…thats what happened – in think he was recoverig from injury too. Look at DD – he put in the effort and we see results.

      • what the

        hi Brian !

  • knowledgep

    It looks like this is zero right now, we’re a broken team and nothing’s going to change unless we can string together a few wins here and there. Firing Casey ain’t gonna fix a damn thing, it’s our roster, not the coach…

    • Jamshid

      It is not zero because you have financial commitment to players than are not worth the money and that is going to limit you for few years !! You also probably don’t have your first round pick this year and … Our team is below zero.

      • Rayden

        You guys are all overreacting. Might I remind you that Raptors lost a LOT of hearbreaker close games. There’s only so many of thos you can take before spirit gets crushed. Granted they do need a genuine star and this season is done but i saw this blowout coming after all the disheartening losses. I dont think firing the coach is the answer…Case is fine and cant make open jump shots that raptors missed ALL night. As far as BC is concerned – he’s not a bad GM. He didnt have a great start with the VC trade. Got unlucky with bargnani trade (there are no guarantees with draft…even JV could be a bust in a few years…look at Ogden pic, brandon Roy…lots of things can happen. Here’s what I think is wrong – -#1 need to attract free agents with money. To get something going, you need a kick start. Ownership needs to throw some money…get mediocre and momentum will carry. Secondly, need a better player seceloent environment. I bet bargnani wouldve turned out different i he had garnett or dirk around him. Get some true winners and hard workers in there. I think AB slacked this summer and it shows…thats what happened – in think he was recoverig from injury too. Look at DD – he put in the effort and we see results.

        • Jamshid

          “You guys are all overreacting. Might I remind you that Raptors lost a LOT of hearbreaker close games.”

          I thought that way at the beginning of the season until maybe 10 days ago. When  everyone started to panic and ask for firings and trades to start, I am on the record of saying this team is better than its record and how it looks right now. I was like everyone needs to calm down and allow them to gel and … 

          However, I was WRONG !!! DEAD WRONG !!! This past 10 days showed me this team is lost and is in trouble. Who knows, maybe AB’s trade fix everything or maybe not and the problem is deeper than AB But something needs to change.

          I really hope fans start to BOO this team and BC in ACC. We need to hold the management and players accountable and things will not change, until they feel the heat.

          • Phat AlberG

            Dude you song like soccer Mom! I don’t care about close games, when you can’t win close games this what happens.    

          • what the

            Trust me a  AB13 trade will fix it for me.

            • cesco

               I trust that you are a moron who does not see further than the tip of his nose .

              • RaptorFan

                Dude… Is Andrea your brother? Is he part of your family? I dont understand your constant love for this guy over what’s best for our team. Your fanboy-ism is bordering on gay lover status! No need to take every bad thing said about Andrea soooo personally!

                I still like Andrea….I just see him as part of the problem. He has a sense of entitlement. I don’t think he is or was held accountable since Sam Mitchell.

                Sam Mitchell was fired because he didn’t coddle Bargnani
                Jay Triano was fired because he couldn’t get Bargnani to play defence
                Bryan Collangelo will likely lose his job because he refuses to accept Bargnani is a 3rd or 4th option (not a number 1 or 2)
                Dwane Casey will likey lose his job as well because he would rather play Andrea “come hell or high water,” instead of riding the hot hand for a victory

                It all comes back to the culture created due to Bryans love affair with the “enigma of enigmas” (BC’s own words)

                Does anyone else remember CB4 yelling and screaming at Andrea due to his lack of effort on the glass????

                When your starting PF/C averages 4-6 rebounds per game – there is a HUGE problem.


                Then we can start evaluating who else needs to go!

                • cesco

                  Oh yes sir eliminate them one at the time . After Andrea , Lowry will have to go because it look more and more that Mr Hero , who has already been traded twice , for good reasons ,  cannot carry this team to the promised land . Who is next ? DD ? Davis ? anybody ? . I don’t think this team will go to a championship in my lifetime ( may be the player that will eventually carry them to a championship is not born yet , ever thought of that ? ) .

                • Matt52

                   The difference between Andrea and all those other players?  Andrea doesn’t work hard and mere presence destroys the team.  Even a ‘good’ game by him individually was at the cost of the team in SAC (check play by play and scores upon leaving, entering, and leaving in 3rd/4th quarter).  In fact, Toronto has not actually won a game this season where Bargnani played ‘well’. 

                  You are right though, if all those guys are counted on to be the #1 option, Toronto is royally screwed with or without Bargnani.

                • what the

                  “who is next?” BC and then Casey

              • what the

                Cesco i’ll tell you how far i can see, I can see 6 years going on 7,8 years now if you know what I mean the shit isn’t gonna change, i’ll tell you how far you can see ,you know the little 13 game thingy thats how far you can see Ces .

  • Canadian Paul

    Don’t know if you still care, but the Raptors are now 29th in the league in defense. The difference between last season and this one? 5ppg per 100 possessions. James Johnson is in no way worth 5 pts to a team defense.

    • lloyd

      The fence?  What is wrong with the fence?  Bryan designed the fence himself, how can our fence be 29th in the league?  ACC workers put it up last month and used new materials.

  • marques johnsnon

    AB will be an awesome addition as a sixth man off the bench with a real team and with a tough coach like Pop will be at least adequate on D. You will see that a very good team will scoop him for nada and he will be a large cog on their team off the bench.

    • lloyd

      Matt Bonner not only will out rebound Andrea but he will out 3pt shoot him.  

    • lloyd

      Matt Bonner hustles too, he is active on both ends of the floor….  can’t see Bargnani beating him our for 6th man on that team.

  • jdub

    “Then there are certain individuals who need to be shipped out of town, if for nothing else, to end not just a culture of losing, but a culture of being content with losing. We’ve gone into great detail about all of those players in the past, and we will continue to do so in the future, but tonight I’m concerned with this team as a whole, top to bottom on December 7, 2012.”


    • FAQ

      … and this is as good as it gets for Toronto.  Decent US FA’s don’t want to come to TO because it’s a career-ender destination.  So obvious….

  • et-man

    This thread always degenerates into a bashing Bargnani free for all.

    The guy shoots 8 for 15, has 8 rebounds and 2 blocks and the article and the posts make it sound like he was the reason for the loss. Derozan and Lowry go a combined 8 for 26 and nothing is said. Amazing.

    I’ve said it before. Lowry’s style of play, being a ball hog looks good when the shots go in but does a lot more damage to the team as a whole when they don’t. It’s not like he is missing his shots and getting assists or playing great defence.

    Bargnani may be playing poorly in most games but come on. We want him under the basket to rebound, sorry, we want him to run to the perimeter to guard the PG or SG or SF so they aren’t left open for a 3, or is it that we want him to do something else?

    If your point guard isn’t controlling the pace of the game and getting other teammates involved your done as a team. I don’t care if Lowry scores 50 points a night, they won’t win.

    The announcers are still gushing about Derozan’s last performance against Utah. Let’s see he gets 34 or 36 points on 33 shots. If Bargnani were to shoot with that efficiency we would run him out of town.

    This team does not play like a team. They are so predictable. Dribble, dribble, one pass and 90% of the time a shot. No ball movement, continuously taking bad shots and driving into congested lanes and opponents only to take a bad shot or lose the ball. 

    We will all get our wish, Bargnani will be traded no doubt, but we will still continue to lose. 

    Having said that, I’m still sticking to my guns and saying it’s not on one individual but their style of play. Casey has to take some responsibility here.

    • Canadian Paul

      What you’re saying is that the offence is the problem.

      • RaptorFan

        Somebody bring out the Guillotine! Heads will roll after this west coast road trip…..

        #FireBC, #FireDC, #TradeAB for draft picks/prospects, #TradeJOSE for draft piacks/prospects, #FreeEDDavis, #DevelopTROSS, #DevelopJV

        • NyAlesund

           ……….and kick the Lowry’s ass out of Ontario.

    • Wattsy38

      Bargnani is a problem.  Terrible shot selection, low IQ,.  Defensively a mixed bag, good in some areas, poor in others. However you are correct, he is not the main reason this team is losing.  As crappy and inconsistent as Bargs is playing right now, he’s still far and away the best offensive player on this team.  Once he is gone people will see unless we get someone back who can score.  I’ve seen enough mistaes out of pretty much everyone at this point.  They are all to blame. 

      • Copywryter

        Sensible. Hopefully a GM sees the same plusses right around the trade deadline. 

    • FAQ

      Low b-ball IQ… perhaps…??!!!!

    • lloyd

      Andrea fans just follow Andrea, not the raptors… this team will keep being lottery and andrea can have his 22/5 results.    The guy will never make a difference.

      Even when we are close and he only scores 4 points, and scoring 2 extra would seal the deal, he can not live up to the expectations.    Sometimes 3 or 4 rebounds could change the look of the game, he is not interested in those too…. he just wants to shoot jumpers and get 20 while our team gets blown out by 30.

      • John

        This is a report on the game. Based on past night he lead the team in scoring and rebounding yet you still want to crucify him. Lowry and DeRozan should be praying that bargs and Calderon never get traded because once they so, the target will be on their back. Lowry’s play specifically is just awful, yet no one seems to notice.

    • NyAlesund

       I couldn’t agree more. I always said that Lowry is good as leader of second unit. His style is killing us.

      • what the

        Yess my friends part twooo of the movie is about to start “Dribble Back” in the starting line up [the old tj /caldy/?/?] SAM said Dribbles helped him win COY do the math folks.

  • j bean

    The problems are many and there isn’t a surefire solution. The fact is though in most of their games (11) within the last few minutes they were in a five point or less game. Instead of being 2-9 in those games switch it to 9-2 and everyone’s outlook changes. The biggest reason for those losses was being unable to get stops. There are a couple of guys who have a long track record with the Raptors that reflects their inability to win close games. Not a definite solution but I would make sure there was not a chance in hell either one of them saw the court in the last five minutes. 

    • FAQ

      Raptors lack a team leader(s)… but even that may not be enough due to limited talent.  It was Barkley who said that there are too many NBA teams and resulting in a shallow talent pool.  It’s true, many of the players are dubious talents.

  • Roarque

    If you’re going to tank then tank with the team’s future on the floor.
    1 KL 2 DDR 3 LF 4 ED 5 JV.
    Sub as necessary (Pietrus for LF  or TRoss for DDR) but these guys should get 35 minutes a night until they learn to play D together.
    Sit down AB and JC – don’t let them see the light of day until they come to Dwane and beg to be played or come to Brian and beg to be traded. Better yet, put them is street clothes and make them sit behind the bench, with the trainers.

    Call me when the season starts next year.

    • John

      Yeah no better way to develop a team then have young guys get blown out every night. Also just handing a young guy a starting spot always works out great.

      • Roarque

        Only one rookie ( who played pro ball in Europe ) in my plan. And they won’t get blown out every night.

        Track record on this steategy includes OKC – check them out now.

  • JLC

    The whole front office needs to be cleaned out, anyone that BC has his fingerprints on…hire an interim guy in the meantime like Wayne Embry until they find a replacement. Make sure that replacement has patience to do a full-on rebuild. Do not fire DC, can’t expect him to do much with a roster full of odds and ends that do not and will not fit together. Finally, trade AB.

    • FAQ

      HEY!!!  Why don’t they hire you… at min wage …!!!

  • FAQ

    WOW!!!!!  I’m surprised at all the pain that is so obvious now!

    Such great hope for this team after the pre-season games… even talking about playoffs no less!!!

    Most everybody ignored the competition and created flimsy delusions based on their narcissistic love of their opinions about new heroes on this shoddy team.

    It’s as if everybody was a statistical nerd and never played b-ball … totally lacking in empathy and instinct.  The Raptors are a ‘band-aid’ team of rather mundane players.

    There is no “beef” on this team because really good players will not come to Toronto.  If Pau Gasol is acquired, he will only come to retire in 2 years… Toronto, a retirement home.  Might as well trade with Dallas to get Vince and reminisce….!!!!

    As it stands now, trade rumours are racking this team causing insecurity problems.

    Deevelopment??.. Deemotivation??.. Deestruction???

  • thatpeterguy

    I was an AB apologist for years until last year when I finally turned on him only to have the guy go on that unbelievable 13 game streak where he was everything I ever wanted him to be. But now? Now, he can go fuck himself. He is playing horribly and uninspired. Most of the nights he has a good stat line you can be sure he gave most of that back on defense. I do that Gasol trade all day every day. 

    • 34567

      AB naturally looks lethargic, but he usually starts the game with good energy and plays well. Then the subs come in and they lose a 10pt lead, he comes out in the second looking like his kitten just died…there is zero mental toughness in him.

      The problem is clearly mental, I think those close losses really got to him. He is the most naturally talented player on the team, physically and skill wise, but he’s not a leader. The team needs a leader who will motivate everyone and look to improve his team mates. From what I’ve seen KL is not a leader, he’s purely a hot or cold ball hog. DD seems to have the right idea, but he doesn’t have the talent and confidence to back it up just yet or command the respect from his team mates.

      So this means raps are going to keep losing.

      • Roarque

        The leader is JV. Mentally tough and passionate about the team game. He just needs time.

        Call me when the season starts next year.

        • FAQ

          Just wait until he realizes he has landed in a pile of sh*t ….!!!

  • Phat AlberG

    Why do you guys talk about shit that you can’t replace like fuck!  I see on here a lot dumb the comments about if the raptors won those games.  But guess what we didn’t those games! They fucking lost because they are shit, who doesn’t care about winning.  This franchise is a effin joke!!! 

    And why would Bryan sign Derozan for another 4 years when they kid has not proven anything, that was retarded.  I’ll be honest in my opinion I think Terrance Ross has a better floor game than Derozan because to me he’s out there and he’s look in control with his decisions.  Derozan is always looks lost on D, Derozan can’t shoot, can’t dribble, can’t create is own shot  And he’s your starting 2 guard why?????????? 

    Point Guards! Look I think Kyle is okay player but the problem he has, when he gets to the lane he doesn’t have the vision (like Steve Nash) to make the correct pass. And he’s too small to see over the bigs in the NBA, So why would you trade for this guy.  And the 2 point guard situation doesn’t work when the back up guard is acting like suck because he’s on the bench.  So you need get rid of one of them because you can’t have both. (should of release Calderon and Kept Bayless)

    Bryan really messed up this summer when Barg hinted he wanted to leave, right there you should ship his ass out of town!  Look the guy does not want to play here at all, he get rip in papers, and he get rips at games.  I’m sorry but European  basketball does not turn out players like NCAA college system.  I’m sorry they are a lot Val lovers on here, but personally I rather have KEMBA WALKER than Val just saying.  


    • tmk

      Even if we drafted Kemba instead, I can see him being called a chucker, bust, and compared to Mike James. Just like Lowry is. Once the ship is sinking (ours has already sunk and rotted), every flaw of every player is magnified and players all look worthless and crap, whether it is true or not. 

    • FAQ

      … but the big NCAA bro’s who are any good don’t want to waste their career and future earnings in Toronto… and no bragging rights either…!!!!

  • Thetruth


  • FAQ

    OH!!!! I can feeel the palpable pain being exuded by all the t.h.f.’s on this fine forum… their pre-season dreams and delusions have been dashed, destroyed, deceased … and all they can do is write reams of invective.

    HOW DARE BC, DC, AB, JC, DD, KL, ED, AJ, all deceive, deny, destroy the hopes of all those t.h.f.’s who have calculated the Raps were to be a playoff team… well ahead of BNets, Phillie, others…. and now they have NOTHING to pin their HOPES.

    Reality hurts, life sucks, gotta hate and blame somebody for hurting their feeeelings..!!!!


      The best part was reading things like: “What has BK done this off season? Nothing. Overpaid scrubs and got JJ. Losers!” “NY? Melo is a cancer, they won’t win 12 games.” And on and on and on…..

      • FAQ

        Our blessed Raptor t.h.f.’s have had their feeeelings spanked by this roster of deevelopment players, and now they are going through the 5 stages of grief:

        Denial — No no, our beloved Raptors with the addition on JV, KL, others will be a playoff contender.. and that should not be questioned on this fan forum!!

        Anger —  “Why me? It’s not fair!”; “How can this happen to me?”; ‘”Who is to blame?”  Once denial cannot continue, they display rage, hatred, condemnation!!

        Bargaining —  Get rid of BC and DC, and trade Bargs, Jose… for Gasol, anybody because I need my hero fix and game winners to help me survive my dismal existence!!

        Depression — “I’m so sad, why bother with anything?”; “Raptors are going to lose soon so what’s the point?”; “I miss my beloved fantasy Raptors, why go on?”  The t.h.f.’s may become silent, refuse friendship and spend much of the time crying and grieving because they know it’s hopeless!!

        Acceptance — “It’s going to be okay.”; “I can’t fight it, I may as well prepare for losses and last place.” In this last stage, t.h.f’s begin to come to terms with their pain, and the tragedy that is the TO Raptors.  Might as well fantasize about draft picks…..

        Where are you in your Raptor grief??!!!!

        • what the

          It’s like you want three more years of Dribbles and AB13.

        • FLUXLAND

          Indifference? Nongivethfuckitis?

          And how can I be in any of those stages? I claimed this mess was coming before Butch Carter had to spell it out for the kids.

          But your stages need work.

          Denial – this team is jelling; January is coming; this is an OKC type write off year, we will finish 425 – 4. Finals in sub 3 years. Book it. JV is Wilt “The Dream” Russell / T Ross is Scottie.

          Anger – oh the lies, the wicked lies from Bryan “Iago” Colangelo. Trade everyone, bench them like HS kids until those millionaires learn their lessons. Off with their heads!

          Bargaining – make a move, ANY move BC. Get me VC , baby, I’ll pay for that.  You still my boy, I know you can swing a playoff type move by the deadline. Work that magic!

          Depression – this entire city and it’s sports ticket are cursed, the fans blow and do not deserve a team. Really, let’s face it, it’s all my fault.

          Acceptance – well gee golly, at least we gots ourselves a team in town, who cares if they win or lose. I’m a real fan, I’m going down with the ship, baaaa! baaaa!  GO RAPS GO!


          • FAQ

            My respectful diagnosis is that you suffer from a chronic to acute case of terminal cynicism …. somewhat like me but you lace your disgust with a dose of pissoffitis towards all those cheerful pre-season t.h.f.’s who are now eating their own mire.

            Nevertheless, all those t.h.f.’s in various stages of grief still need HOPE otherwise their b-ball lives are not worth living … and they regress to perpetual masturbation to salve their angst.  I hope you don’t masturbate a lot now… bad for your brain health… believe it… duh……

  • howlonghowlong

    1)  Fire BC and hire a monkey

    2)  Trade AB and JC for Pau Gasol

    3)  Trade Pau Gasol to the Thunder for our pick (via Huston) and PJ-III +/- Lamb (depending on what the thunder think of Pau)

    4)  Trade Derozan to the Kings for any player and their 2014 1-2-3 protected pick.

    • Jamshid

      I like that Monkey as a GM.He is able to make lots of great deals.

  • AB37pts.CB4

    Damn it