Andrea Bargnani participated in practice today and could return on Sunday against the Heat.

I, like everyone else, should be praying that Bargnani returns and has a massive game so that his non-existent trade value can be revived. RR understands that Bryan Colangelo has no desire to keep Andrea Bargnani, and would trade him for a conditional second-round pick provided he can find a team that can take on his salary. However, given how he doesn’t like to rebound, has a PER of 12.4, and his having his worst shooting season ever, it will be tough. Fans should take solace knowing that Bryan Colangelo, as erratic as he is, was able to trade the gluttonous contract of a heavily fatigued Hedo Turkoglu, who made more than Bargnani. RR is comforted by that thought, and feels that if Turkoglu is tradeable, so is our friend Andrea.

The team is 13-12 without Bargnani, and 4-18 with him. Damning evidence, however, one should take into account that the schedule was harder earlier in the season.


Season G MP PER TS% eFG% ORB% DRB% TRB% AST% STL% BLK% TOV% USG% ORtg DRtg OWS DWS WS WS/48
2006-07 65 1629 12.8 .546 .507 3.7 14.8 9.2 5.1 1.0 2.5 13.5 22.6 99 106 0.2 1.7 1.9 .057
2007-08 78 1861 10.6 .495 .448 3.2 15.2 9.2 7.4 0.7 1.6 9.9 22.5 98 109 -0.3 1.6 1.4 .036
2008-09 78 2453 14.6 .559 .512 3.4 16.4 10.0 6.4 0.7 3.1 11.2 22.7 105 110 1.8 2.0 3.9 .076
2009-10 80 2799 15.5 .552 .523 4.6 15.9 10.4 5.4 0.5 3.0 8.8 22.3 108 113 3.3 0.9 4.2 .072
2010-11 66 2353 16.4 .533 .480 3.6 13.9 8.6 8.8 0.7 1.5 10.3 28.1 105 115 2.2 0.4 2.6 .053
2011-12 31 1032 17.9 .538 .467 2.8 16.6 9.8 11.6 0.9 1.2 11.0 28.7 104 106 1.3 0.9 2.2 .104
2012-13 21 688 12.4 .485 .445 2.7 13.3 7.9 7.5 0.9 1.7 9.6 26.1 95 110 -0.2 0.3 0.1 .009
Career 419 12815 14.5 .536 .490 3.6 15.3 9.5 7.1 0.7 2.3 10.5 24.2 103 111 8.4 8.0 16.3 .061

  • trample54

    These articles are getting on my nerves. Andrea wasn’t the sole reason for what has happened, its a friggin team sport. I don’t see you putting blame on anyone else for the 4-18 record that raps had

    • Arsenalist

      I explicitly mentioned the schedule. And his injury does have a strong correlation on how the team played overall. Was he the entire problem? No, but the team looked better with without him.

      • trample54

        So the team meeting just happened to correlate with his injury. Why couldn’t they play the way they are playing now back then? 

        • dcon

          They had the worst schedule in the league, plus ton of bad calls which robbed them from a good start. Bargnani has struggled, but the ball didn’t move at all. You can also attribute the wins to Calderon in the starting role… but it’s more then just that. When Allen A came back the ball started to move on offence, and they developed a flow. 

          • trample54

            Agree with your statement but the team only turned around after he was injured. There are a bunch of factors that contributed to the bad start, I agree but they could’ve played him in the same system they have now. When there are 3 me first players in a line-up ie KL, DD and AB who all need their shots, the ball isn’t going to go anywhere. 

            • cesco

               How many times did we see the lead the starters build vanish after JC and the second unit entered the game , how many times . The second unit stank even more than the first unit as they were supposed to be a strong point of this team before the season started .

          • BCBargnaniFieldsCaseyGots2Go!

            Denver had the worst schedule to start the season, Raptors 2nd worst, yet Denver played above .500 ball .

      • dcon

        However, you forgot to mention that the schedule turned as well… more then just the Bargs factor, plus the refs didn’t help!

      • Raptors_fan

        Sorry, I don’t agreee. Bargnani should be traded, but he was not the reason of the Raptors results. The hole thread does not make sense to me.

    • thetruth

      I don’t agree with the idea that we should just dump Bargnani’s salary on any team willing to take him. I’m no fan of Bargnani and he is an infuriating player to watch but he’s too talented to throw away for nothing. If we can’t get real value for Bargnani in a trade then maybe it might be worth considering seeing what he can bring to this new raptors team. We don’t have many players who can spread the floor (and although Bargnani hasn’t been great from 3pt range over the last 2 seasons), he can be a nice complementary piece on this squad when engaged.

      We need players who can space the floor. Bargnani can at least provide that much.

      • thetruth

        On a similar note, the Raptors are now an incredibly athletic team that can really run. Bargnani, again when engaged, is an athletic power forward who can run as well.

        • Guest

          Bargnani is not athletic… He is actually fairly out of shape as nba players go. Just google image search andrea bargnani fat.

          • JimiCliff

            That’s ridiculous, he’s not and never has been fat. 

          • And2k28

            Fat?? Bargnani is one of quickest and agile 7 ft in the league!

      • trample54

        Exactly! The notion that he can’t contribute is very untrue. He can be an absolute matchup nightmare for opposing players.

        • Quincy Acy

          You say that and yet he is shooting below 40% which is well below-average as a big man. Most good forwards in the league would see this as a night off defensively and an opportunity to get theirs offensively against a notoriously poor defender. Also, just thought I would mention that Andrea is one of the worst rebounding seven-footers of all-time and most of the other guys in his range did not play very much.

          • RapthoseLeafs

             Gay is now the defacto #1. With Demar right behind. Andrea would get less double teams. And less shots. And less minutes. Maybe he’ll be more engaged knowing he’s not the alpha male anymore, and if he wants numbers, he better make them count.

            The thing about AB now, is that he is a low risk investment. Trading Bargs most likely means 10 million coming back. I’m not a fan of amnesty, but I like it better then 10 mil returning.

            If Mr. Primo really screws up, or sustains a serious injury, the Club can use the Amnesty rule. And should he hang on for another season – through most of 2013-14 – but ends that season with an injury, the Raps would still have an amnesty option. Or they could parley a 12 million dollar expiring contract for a Star – in conjuction with some talent and/or draft pick. Large contracts have a value when trading pieces. That’s why big spenders are usually in the play-offs.

            Despite how much good Gay could bring to Toronto, the ability to attract another Star player will still be extremely difficult. If Raps make the play-offs this year – a tall order – it will mean their draft pick continues to “hang out there” – limiting options when trading assets. Unless they can work some deal with OKC – who has that pick, I believe.

            .

            An Optimist might be happy with all the “potential” flying around in Rap Land. Gay could reach new levels for this team. Lowry could settle down – while taking the Jose battle to heart. Demar seems more enthused (love the assists). Amir is having a great rebound. Add a player like Andrea was last year, and this team would be dynamite.

            Raps have a great set of Guards & Wings. They also have a top 5 rated Bench, that includes a talent with future Starter SG capability. Bargs & Amir would be a solid Front Court, while Jonas goes back to where he should have been – LEARNING  off the Bench. Next year.

            .

            With Gay around, the “our Offense revolves Bargnani” will STOP. We’ll continue to play like a team, and if AB wants in, then he should be given a chance. If he f**ks up, Raps will have a multitude of solutions to correct the situation.

            The big question is … Will he?
            Will he return to the talent, with the ONLY coach who got it out of him, when he comes back to play for that Coach.

            Low Risk. High reward potential.

            .

            • trample54

              Idk who told Casey to revolve the offense around Andrea, it’s a team sport so everyone has to play accordingly to maximize their strengths.

      • Sam

        I would add that the fans deserve some degree of compensation, in the form of a quality player, to make up for the years of ‘drea frustration.

      • BCBargnaniFieldsCaseyGots2Go!

        Fuck that spacing argument Bargnani is a lockerroom cancer……get him the fuck outta the TDot- point blank!! 

        • SukaTori

          Ooohh !! Sorry Doctor i didn’t know he is a lockerroom cancer …….
          your nick say there are lots of lockerroom cancers [this different cancer also changes year by year]
          so Doctor go in the lockerroom and clean up all cancer

        • NyAlesund

          Anybody told you that? Shut up. You don’t know nothing.

    • Quincy Acy

      If the ball freezes in the hands of one of your lowest efficiency shooters who then proceeds to miss a shot, you’re going to lose a lot of basketball games. Add that to the fact that he is also your worst defender and, pound for pound, your worst rebounder you have a 4-18 start. Especially with the fact that he has been for some mysterious reason anointed the best player on the team and has been given the green light to shoot . I don’t care if he is a good shooter for a big man. That’s literally the only skill he has and he can’t even make a 3-pointer anymore. He played well for 13 games. THAT’S IT! Arsenalist took the diplomatic approach, I won’t, Andrea is the piece of shit that has made us the laughing-stock of the nba, that ends when he’s shipped out of town for the washing machine that he is worth (maybe it’ll wash the camo out of those horrible unis). 

      • trample54

        Is it his fault that the organization coddled him as soon as he was drafted? No stfu! Toronto has made itself the laughing stock of the NBA you piece of shit. You just like other people on this classify one person making the organization look bad. Bullshit.

        • Guest

          I’ll ignore you calling me a piece of shit as the ignorant and childish ramblings of a Bargnani fan in denial about his lack of a role on this team but I will say this, how exactly do you see Andrea, a low-efficiency, high volume shooter fitting in with the rest of this team? Can you justify taking shots away from any contributor on this team? Would you take away from the development of Ross and Valanciunas? The duo of Demar and Gay? Lowry? Johnson? The second-unit three-point shooting of Lucas and Anderson? You can’t play him at centre, so where exactly does he fit in? There is no place and there are no shots on this team for him. He needs set plays run for him, he is a ball-stopper and not a very talented one and needs to be gone. 

          • trample54

            There is a place and there are shots for him on this team. I didn’t want to use obscenities but it gets so frustrating with you guys! He can come off the bench as potent scorer and not take away shots from anybody else, it just wont work in the starting line-up with gay, demar and lowry. Well he is a power forward and the raptors are not exactly deep in that department. You guys act like you can look into the future and know the outcome. Only time will tell.

    • SukaTori

      You’re right 100%
      but this articles is another lost chance to stop saying free shit

    • BCBargnaniFieldsCaseyGots2Go!

      Andrea Bargnani aka Il Mago aka King Bargs aka The Pope aka No Star aka Pasta! aka Half Ass aka Lazy Mofo’er aka The Italian Cancer aka Enigma Of Enigmas aka Golden Child aka Spoiled Brat aka 13 Games aka Caliper Kid aka Just Box Out aka Willie Foo-Foo

      He’s (Bargnani) our guy come hell or highwater (Casey)

      Rebounding & defense is for peasants- come here Amir, Val, Aaron & Acy (Bargnani voice)

      What I do on offense is more complicated that rebounding and defense (Bargnani)

      I’m a PF not a center (Bargnani)

      *We are the worst team in the NBA (Bargnani)

      BC/Bargnani pr spin-  He/I didn’t say that (*). Reporter – yes you did it’s all recorded.

      • trample54

        OMG how long did it take you to come up with that? I swear you are a 14 year old hiding behind a keyboard. He said they were one of the worst which was true at that point in time. Why sugarcoat the truth? If you give a man a rod he is going to fish. When you give someone ie Andrea that power and confidence to say he is their best player, for Casey to say come hell or high water he’s our guy, it’s not his fault for the belief and confidence they instilled in him for crying out loud. 

      • NyAlesund

         YES, it was the worst NBA team…………….everyone knew this. He only said the cruel truth

  • JHP

    I hope he returns and contributes.  But to be honest the gig is up and time to move on. Unfortunately he’s now in his 7th year and is becoming injury prone.  Guess if they ease him back into the lineup and showcase him in the proper light then maybe they can move him. And yes AB was not the only reason but explaining that to the fans is going to be a tough sell.  

    • dcon

      I agree, he needs a new environment and I can see him doing well. I’m just hoping that Pau is at the end of this… what a starting line up that would be. Call it a dream… in this dream Calderon resigns in the off season for far less money.

      • Guest

        Pau does not work. Can you imagine him running up and down with Gay, Demar, Ross and Lowry with those horrible knees?

  • cesco

    In the previous tw0 years the team had a better record when he played than when he was injured . Why should it be different when he comes back after the team rediscovered the identity it had last year and is playing far better bball than early in the season .  If the team get closer to the last playoff spot during the next two weeks with him playing , he is far from gone as he will be needed to catch that last playoff spot .

    • Guest

      The only reason he was needed was to offer an offensive alternative to Demar Derozan and Kyle Lowry. We now have a vastly superior one in Rudy Gay who fits in with the athletic style this team is headed towards. He hurts our defensive play way too much to be a major contibutor to this team and must be moved as quickly as possible. With Andrea it has always been the case of addition by substraction. There is no way for him to fit in with this team. Amir is our new starting 4 and fully deserves it.

      • monocled_gentleman_scholar

        No, Bargnani has proven that he can be a decent primary defender. (Compare how quickly Jonas got exposed against LA when he was brought in to spell Amir?)

        • Guest

          To be fair Jonas has been out quite a while and isn’t up to game speed yet. It’s not so much the issue of Andrea being a decent individual defender (i’m guessing this is what you mean) but rather the lazy and poor help d with the atrocious rebounding that bothers most raptors fans. Say what you want about Demar and Jose but at least they always work their asses off. I can’t tell you how many times I’ve yelled at the tv watching Andrea jog back confusedly to his man only to leave someone else open for a three.

  • monocled_gentleman_scholar

    It would be truly crazy for a team that is now thin at the four spot to give away Bargnani for nothing. He can definitely give you 25 quality minutes there, at the very least. This Bargnani hate is out of control.

    • trample54

      Instead of people making proper arguments they just bash him left right and center. This shouldn’t be called raptors republic it should the bash bargnani blog because that’s all they seem to do

      • Guest

        I made a reasoned argument commenting on his poor play on the defensive end and the fact that he has been outscored, outrebounded and outdefended (not a word, i know) by Amir Johnson and the fact that he has been rendered without use by the arrival of a superior offensive option in Rudy Gay. The criticism of Andrea by the vast majority of raptors fans is not unsubstantiated, rather it has been fully backed up by his play. If you want more evidence compare his and Amir’s stats as starters, Amir outperforms him in every regard. Amir would play without a leg, Andrea missed 35 games last year because he strained his calf. He called this team the worst team in the NBA to a newspaper in another country and called himself the best player on the team. Amir shaved the logo into his head. What more do you want. When you say we bash him for no reason, we answer that the evidence is right in front of your eyes. We are making reasoned arguments backed up with statistics and are tired of Andrea sucking the life out of this team.

        • trample54

          Compare his and Amir’s stats over the past season or past 2 seasons I could see how that is understandable. He doesn’t suck the life out of this team. Just because he’s not as expressive as everyone else doesnt mean he does not care. He called the team one of the worst. It was true at that point. Is it his fault that the best player moniker has been stamped on him? There is no way that he is the best player but he is not the worst.

          • What the

            Amen brother… Dribbles is gone Barnie is next no Wiggins and we got the Gay guy playoffs next season book it .

        • SukaTori

           “I made a reasoned argumen”

          AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh
          AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh
          AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh
          AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh AAhhhh

  • http://peterd.mp Beagle17

     I concur with the reasonable posts on this thread. Bargs is far from useless and worth a lot more than a second round pick! ANY team in the league would surely trade a second round pick for him which makes the second sentence of this article ridiculous. Thank God Arsenalist is not the GM.

    Furthermore it is clear the team will have a whole new style with Lowry running the point and Gay + Derozan playing run and gun. The only thing to do is to see how Bargs fares in the new style. And/or as a sixth man role. If we trade him for fair value, great. But to dump him for no return is a totally stupid idea. There are many active players with worse stats and worse defense than Bargs, some of them even making a similar salary.

  • Roarque

    Trade him for a draft pick or amnesty him by March 1.

  • j bean

    Let’s see how it goes against Bosh and James if he plays Sunday.
    The only thing he can do to make things better for him and the team is contribute to a win.

  • FBTAC

    He would be a great 6th man on a playoffs team, but the relationship in TO is kinda rotten, Brian talked about a ‘gang mentality’ the other day, and the fact that Bargs has become an ‘easy target’ for anyone. 
    RR is just going mainstream on this. Raps fans environment is the same that was questioning the signing of Lowry after just a few games, throwing Jose under the bus most of the time, considering DD not playing at the level of his contract, etc. etc. All pretty reasonable and legitimate of course, if you consider the tradition and results of the team. Bargs has been an enigma here for so many years. So possibly all the actors involved consider this trade as a win-win game and that is the sense of Brian’s words. But it would be a lousy deal to trade him for crumbles, as his real value in another setting  is not so low. 
    Best scenario IMO would be to keep him this season to have him come off the bench on a (running) Raps team, and shop him at the end of 2012/13. 

  • SukaTori

    Dear Holly, why don’t you look for another job?
    maybe you’ll be right at the point.

  • DryDry

    Watch him come out and go Reggie Evans rebound crazy and grab someone’s nuts.

  • badbob

    I don’t want to give Barg’s away for nothing! We can use him coming off the bench in the second unit to give them scoring and see how it all plays out. It would be foolish to give away a no. 1 draft pick for nothing when he could possibly be a great fit for our second unit! Right now for 2013 we have no no. 1 draft pick or a no. 2 draft pick so if all fails maybe we should look at bringing back a no. 1 pick for 2013 and maybe a backup point guard since we need one now.

  • robertparrish00

    I don’t see him accepting his role off the bench.  

    He was unmotivated as a starter with offensive plays designed around him, so what motivation does he have off the bench. 

    I hope I am wrong.

  • NyAlesund

    “The team is 13-12 without Bargnani, and 4-18 with him. Damning evidence,
    however, one should take into account that the schedule was harder
    earlier in the season.”

    Ridicolous……………Not mention what kind of basket we played in that period of time. Not mention how Josè gave us an enormous contributes, not mention the schedule……………nothing………..only AB’s faults.

    To have a bias against him. Bargs has a lot of faults but forget the responsability from the others  is a nonsense.

  • NyAlesund

    4-18 with Bargs.
    17-30 now, without him.

    I don’t see a lot of improvements, not mention the good schedule we had (in december) after the first 22 games.
     

    • Guest

      There’s a big difference between 4-18 and 13-12

      • trample54

        The caliber of teams Toronto played during that stretch weren’t that great, lets be real here

      • NyAlesund

         Really? With a good schedule, yes. We won 8 of 13 games from 14th of december to 1st of  january . After that the record was 5-11.
        Do you see a lot of real improvements?

      • SukaTori

        Celtics are now 4-0 without Rondo
        so trade Rondo 😉
         

  • JimiCliff

    Man, this is going to be interesting. Over the next few weeks, we’ll get to watch someone define their life. 

    Remember, he’s only 27. So often I forget how young ALL of these guys are; I think that I think of them more as superheros then as people. It’s almost unfair that they peak physically so early; but I guess that makes it more interesting. 

    It could be that sitting on the sidelines, seeing the team be better, and hearing all of the criticism , will have significantly changed him. We’ll see. 

  • Saints91

    I think it’s come to the point where this forum would be described as fanatical.  Bargnani is not as bad as people are making him out to be.  You are blind with hate, and there is absolutely no sound reasoning for your statements.  A 2nd rounder? Are you kidding me?  His value is far higher to this team then a second rounder.  Bargnani did have a horrible start to the season, but historically he has been better than that.  I have been very vocal about his short comings in the past, but I’m not willing to be involved in this mob. 

     I think his value would be greatly appreciated coming off the bench subbing Gray/Jonas (C spot) and Amir (PF).  It would lead to balanced scoring, and his defence wouldn’t be as suspect playing against bench players.  He started in this league off the bench and maybe he actually suits it.  We can’t pretend to be psychics or claim to know his personality.  Maybe him not being the focal point will actually help him out.  Perhaps the pressure got to him to be the main man.  I think time will tell.  If they do trade him for equal value, then great, but to just unload him is idiotic. 

    • FBTAC

      amen

    • trample54

      PREACH

  • alboy

    Are you kidding me ? Trading Bargs for a second round pick ? I’d take Bargnani over all of second round picks (without even mentioning that this is a weak draft) . His personality , which has limited him a lot in his career , would help him in this case as he has demonstrated that he is not an alpha dog kind of player so he would have no problems with him being not considered the franchise player . Building a similar kind of negative atmosphere around him just for trading him for a pair of nuts because he remembers someone of the recent Raps failures it’s absolutely stupid .
    Actually we have an exciting tim and actually Bargs could help this team in a lot of ways . If he doesn’t and/or if we find a GOOD trade for him than we could trade him , trading him for a second round pick would be stupid and a big error for the future of the Raps .

  • Dc

    To all the people saying any team would gladly trade a second for him. You guys don’t know what the hell youre talking about. Colangelo can’t give this fucking bum away. HE SUCKS!! Yea im sure teams are lining up to get a lazy 7 fter that doesn’t rebound (historically bad I might add) and is a below average defender at best that shoots 40 percent and is low in efficiency rating. Yea teams should be lining up. Are yall fucking crazy???

  • Eli

    Do you remember watching Pasta play for us in the beggining of the season? He completely stalled the offense and on top of that stunned the growth of our young bigs.

    • trample54

      Are you kidding me? These stupid nicknames are getting old, grow up. How did he stall the offense? As I recall Andrea isn’t a point guard and he isn’t the whole toronto raptors, so the notion that he stalled the offense is invalid. It is up to the team if they want to get the ball moving.  Of course he needs his shots because thats what he is, a shooter but he did NOT stall the offense.  How did he stunt the growth of the bigs? He is not the coach and he doesn’t make decisions as to who plays or not. He hasn’t stunted shit, you guys will always find another ludicrous reason to blame the teams’ downfalls on Andrea. Complete bullshit. 

      • Guest

        Stopping the offense is as easy as firing up a shot outside the flow of the offense or just not moving the ball even though the play calls for it. He stunted the growth of our bigs by taking away playing time from Ed and Amir. The shooter argument is why we’re tired of him. Who the hell a jump shooting big man who never goes inside. Even dirk will post up.

        • trample54

           He is playing where his coach wants him to play. A stretch 4 who could make space basically for Demar and such because he could be an offensive threat. He can go inside, we’ve seen that many times so I think your argument is invalid. I don’t understand how he stunted their growth because Amir has been in this league since 17 or 18 and Jonas is rookie, he will take time to develop. Big men take a little longer that point guards to become efficient so it’s not true that he stunted their growth.

  • BCBargnaniFieldsCaseyGots2Go!

    Fuck you AB!

    You’re the Raptor fans love 2 hate (Ice Cube voice)

    • trample54

      As usual you just come in like a bad penny.

    • cesco

      sorry who’s ice cube? I don’t speak nigger…

      • trample54

        What kind of comment is that? You don’t speak ‘nigger’? You should honestly delete that comment.

        • cesco

           That was not me , in all truth I don’t like the new music and I prefer the old crooners so I have no idea whether ice cube is black . white , yellow or chocolate . Nat King Cole has a damn good voice one of the best ever and so does Frank Sinatra , no way this ice cube guy can beat them .

          • trample54

            Ice Cube is the 1990s though and he is black; and he does rap. Nat King Cole and Frank Sinatra aren’t in the same era.