Toronto Raptors 104 Final

Recap | Box Score

98 Oklahoma City Thunder
Amir Johnson, PF Shot Chart 32 MIN | 7-11 FG | 2-2 FT | 13 REB | 1 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 17 PTS | +21The guy does not have a single play called for him and is downright productive in the true sense of the word. Now imagine if there were sets in the Raptors offense that actually got him the ball instead of him trying to work off broken plays? His help defense was a little suspect for me, but when you’re banging with Collison and Ibaka, it takes its toll on your legs. That rebound he dove for against Ibaka is the play of the century.

Jonas Valanciunas, C Shot Chart 35 MIN | 6-10 FG | 1-2 FT | 6 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 2 BLK | 1 TO | 13 PTS | +3His coach tried to stymie him once again through an extensive benching in the third/fourth, but it didn’t faze him as he continued staying close to the rim, cleaned up the glass, and executed well in the block whenever he was given a precious touch. The Raptors stuck around in this game on account of their rebounding and paint-control, and Valanciunas had a lot to do with that.

Kyle Lowry, PG Shot Chart 37 MIN | 6-16 FG | 7-7 FT | 7 REB | 9 AST | 4 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 22 PTS | +4Big Game Kyle. Outplayed Westbrook pound-for-pound for me, solid defense, drew some charges when needed, played the passing lanes well, hit some big shots including that three in the fourth quarter. I don’t know if he’s long for Toronto given Ujiri’s intents, but his trade value has to be much higher since the rumours surfaced. I’ve said it all along, I love this guy as a player.

DeMar DeRozan, SG Shot Chart 38 MIN | 7-20 FG | 3-5 FT | 2 REB | 4 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 2 TO | 17 PTS | -4He led the Raptors offense in the first and second quarter, and gave them a lift in the third as well. In the fourth, the jumper was a bit short. Overall, he played well but didn’t stick defensively with Lamb enough and needed to punish him far more than he did. He needs to realize that this team doesn’t need him to dominate.

Terrence Ross, SG Shot Chart 23 MIN | 2-10 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 2 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 6 PTS | 0Disappointing. The play that stuck out for me was when he tried to do a little extra on a baseline jam and got blocked by Lamb. He had his moments defensive in transition in the first half where he did well to stick with Westbrook, but he needs to provide some efficient production, not be a volume shooter, hence the low grade.

Tyler Hansbrough, PF Shot Chart 12 MIN | 0-3 FG | 3-4 FT | 3 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 3 PTS | -4Was a key cog in the Raptors going up in the second half on account of his rebounding and hustle. Got neturalized a bit in the second half but gave the Raptors the boost that he was brought in to give.

Patrick Patterson, PF Shot Chart 16 MIN | 2-3 FG | 0-0 FT | 2 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 5 PTS | -13Since nobody quite expected anything from him, anything he produces is a bonus. Best thing I can say about him is that he’s providing returns on the time afforded to him. Hit a couple tough shots after he was passed the ball late in the clock, stuck with Ibaka and Durant in the first half, and hustled his ass back-and-forth up the court. I thought he could’ve done more on the boards, but he tends to pull to the perimeter a bit too much. That’s his game, though. If the Raptors aren’t running pick ‘n pops, he becomes a peripheral player on offense and that’s what he was tonight.

John Salmons, SF Shot Chart 31 MIN | 5-12 FG | 3-3 FT | 3 REB | 2 AST | 2 STL | 0 BLK | 3 TO | 14 PTS | +22He’s basically the role-player SF we’ve been searching for all these years. Played good defense in every matchup and handled the ball when when OKC was pressuring the PGs. Was unlucky to miss some shots up close but hit some huge jumpers in the fourth and drew a key foul in a one-on-one situation against Durant; overall a solid game from a bench three who did well to relieve some pressure.

Steve Novak, SF Shot Chart 0 MIN | 0-0 FG | 0-0 FT | 0 REB | 0 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 0 TO | 0 PTS | +5No idea when he got in there.

Greivis Vasquez, PG Shot Chart 15 MIN | 1-6 FG | 5-6 FT | 4 REB | 4 AST | 0 STL | 0 BLK | 4 TO | 7 PTS | -4A disastrous defensive second quarter where he looked like he had wooden shoes on and Jackson tore him apart at every chance. Had a better stint in the fourth quarter but as soon as Westbrook saw him matched up against him in some space, calamity ensued. There was a literal cost to having him on the floor last night, some night the profits outweigh the cost, some they don’t. Tonight they didn’t.

Dwane Casey
He’s getting this team to play hard. I thought the Ross benching came a bit too late and JV was slightly mismanaged again. Overall, though. Good use of timeouts to quell the crowd and excellent use of Salmons.

Four Things We Saw

  1. In the third quarter OKC was 33-34 from FT, while the Raptors were 11-13. The refs tried, they really did, but the Raptors played through it.
  2. Raptors outscored the Thunder by 16 in the last 10:30 of the game.
  3. Raps forced 8 OKC TO in the first, held them to 37% in the first to get off to a great start. They were -5 on the glass for the game, but it’s the rebounding what kept them in it, especially in the first half.
  4. Key stat: The Raptors were 4-7 3FG in the second which resulted in a 6-point halftime lead.
  • Amigo

    No Man’s Land

    • Kovalainnen

      The difference between your so called “No Man’s Land” and tanking is that if we keep playing like we do now, we’ll get to a playoffs and draft at 17-21 pick, and if we’ll try to lose, we’ll pick at #8-12… so it’s not that big deal to tank, because there are A LOT of teams who’re tanking a way harder…

      • AB4EYE

        If we lose we have a shot at a better pick that that. Not embracing the tank is putting up in a bad spot, winnings games like this is killing us long term.

        • OzRapsFan

          I know tanking is probably the best for the future, but I can’t fathom how so called fans of a team would wish they would lose.

          • AB4EYE

            Because bad now likely means good later while good now likely means bad later. We only have a few of the players on this team locked up so even if we win 2 rounds we have nothing to show for it.

            • Huh?

              Except for 2 series wins in the playoffs. Sounds good to me

              • AB4EYE

                Yes but then what happens the next year when we suck again?

          • Feather Ruffler

            It’s mind boggling! And it’s almost depressing. I mean we just beat Dallas and OKC AWAY and people are talking about how bad it is for some nonexistent future championship team? I’m just bamboozled as to what is happening in these comments.

            • AB4EYE

              What did we get we’re still a losing team?

          • ac1011990

            We want them to lose because we have stuck through them through all these years with absolutely nothing to show for it. Whats wrong with starting from the bottom once and doing things right, i doubt the pro tankers are saying trade all the players, we want to keep the few good pieces and add to that. If people honestly think that this team can do any sort or damage in the playoffs you’d be mistaken, not only that but we lose out on one of the best drafts in recent years.Well just got to wait for Masai to make his moves, hopefully this whole debate will be settled one way or another.

          • Nilanka15

            You answered your own question.

        • Kovalainnen

          Meh… Like one smart guy in the forum said: TRUST MASAI AND LEIWEKE… The NBA is not all about the Draft, you understand that? 😀 We can add some pieces to this group by trades and this team can be competitive enough… I’m sorry but things you are saying is complete tunnel vision..

          • AB4EYE

            The NBA is everything about the draft, especially when we are never going to get stars to sign with us until we get good.

            • caccia

              Hairston from UNC could fall into Toronto’s lap. He will probably go pro in the spring, but not having played all season, teams will be leery of taking a chance. That’s how Indiana got Lance Stephenson,who was extremely immature, in the second round.

              • AB4EYE

                Those are high risk players who you can take a shot on in the second round and some pan out other don’t but to hope to turn your franchise around with late firsts and 2nd round picks is going to lead to a long rebuild. No amount of scouting can help you there, you just need luck and get guys to improve after you pick them.

            • Kovalainnen

              We have to win to become good, and if I understand correctly, we just did that, didn’t we? 😀 You all believe that one player like Randle or Exum (because we have to be extremely lucky to get Wiggins or Parker) can turn a constantly losing franchise to a contenders.. I’m not sure… We could still draft a good prospect @ 18 pick and to learn winning mentality at same time :)

              • AB4EYE

                Winning doesn’t make you good long term.

                • David Montford

                  Neither does losing.
                  Just ask the Kings.
                  They been doing it for years.

                • AB4EYE

                  Losing gives you a shot to win and the Kings are coming off a long run of success they got from having players that were draft picks.

                • Chewwy

                  What long run of success? How many times have the Kings made the playoffs since Cousins was drafted? How many times have they made the playoffs since the days of Webber, Bibby and Stojakovic?

                • why

                  they were contenders because they were gifted an elite talent in Webber to compliment those picks (who was traded in a pique of rage by Washington after Webber was charded with marijuana possession)

                • Nilanka15

                  You really want to use crappy management as an argument against the draft?

                • ItsAboutFun

                  It’s funny how tanknation keeps altering the narrative. There’s not a soul in this here part of the world that doesn’t recognize the values associated with the draft,,,,,, along with the pitfalls though. Tanking on the other hand, history says is what keeps being tried by those very “crappy management” teams. Is there not a message in that? If the crappy management teams are the ones that keep trying that route to the promised land,,,,,,, hmmmmmm.

                • Nilanka15

                  I see that same “history” saying that tanking is what allows championships teams to be built……hmmmmmm.

                • ItsAboutFun

                  But it hasn’t.

                • Chewwy

                  Losing doesn’t either. Losing on purpose based on a possibility of getting one single player that may not become a franchise changer is not a smart move. As well, what message do you send to the people that pay money for their seats at the ACC. “Hey, pay your hard earned money, come to the game and watch us try to lose on purpose?”. It sounds as pathetic as it is.

                • Nilanka15

                  By “one good player”, I think you meant to say “six good players”

              • ac1011990

                No they cant help single handled but neither could Lebron. No one player in this league can win the championship alone, you need multiple elite players. Raptors dont even have one elite player it would be a nice start trying to acquire our first.

                • Chewwy

                  Great point and to add to that, not one player in the upcoming draft is a Lebron James. I find it sad that we have to argue with our own supposed fans to stop cheering for us to lose. I actually can’t wait until we are at the point where a lottery pick is not in the cards but a playoff spot is. And I mean this year

                • ac1011990

                  Lolz nobody is Lebron, its obvious your not going to find another like him. I dont know if you have forgotten but there are 3 pretty good teams named the Pacers, Thunder and Blazers who are making some noise but dont have a Lebron. They build through the draft, yes i know the Pacers got Hibbert and George later, but you cant count that as a normal occurrence. Nobody is saying drafting high guarantees an elite player but it sure does drastically increase the odds. This draft is supposed to be one of the best in recent years, il trust the numerous NBA scouts and management that are gone crazy over it instead of someone like you who’s worried about not finding a Lebron.

            • David Montford

              Let’s see. Boston won the title. Three keys players thru F/A.
              Lakers win titles after trading for Paul Gasol.
              The Heat win back to back titles because of F/A.
              Do you follow the NBA?

              • ac1011990

                Lolz Lebron chose to go to Miami and Bosh LEFT the raptors to go there. Boston has won championships before, its a basketball city, most players would be proud to wear the uniform. The lakers are the Lakers, they can get anyone they want. We get players like Hudo, Smaller teams get players through the draft. In till the Raptors get an elite talent through either of those means then we can talk about the draft not being important

                • Chewwy

                  If the Lakers could get who they want then Howard wouldn’t have given them the Toronto Chris Bosh treatment. Remember how Colangelo wouldn’t trade Bosh even though everybody said he wouldn’t sign with us? Well the same thing happened this year with Dwight Howard and the team you said can get anybody they want

                • ac1011990

                  They got Howard to begin with didnt they, The only teams that even had a shot were big market teams. Was a small market even in the question? NOPE. So the Lakers couldn’t keep 1 player, we never even have attracted a single elite player and your sitting there crying about how the Lakers lost Howard. You want to go through the names of star players have gotten compare to the raptors, i think that would be a fun game.

              • AB4EYE

                Paul Pierce was a Top-10 pick, Got Ray with a Top-5 pick, KG was traded for a ton including a Top-6 pick. Both of those guys were Top-5 picks, Pau was 3rd overall pick. These guys are getting players that high draft picks, they are also teams who can spend to sign max players and also don’t play in Canada where they have to pay more taxes.

                Stars make teams and most all these stars are lotto picks.

                • David Montford

                  Facts. F/A.

                • AB4EYE

                  Boston traded for KG and Ray with guys they picked high and other picks. Miami signed guys because they had a star they got in Top-5 and also don’t have state income tax and is a top notch place to live. Toronto has bad weather and cost players more in tax.

                • Chewwy

                  Boston, Chicago , Brooklyn and New York are all cold weather climates. They don’t seem to have problems signing FA. California( Lakers, Clippers and Warriors) and New York State ( Brooklyn, Knicks) have signed some pretty big free agents( Nash, Paul, Iguodala, Williams) the last two years but have 2 of the highest state income taxes. San Antonio and Oklahoma City are small market cities but have had no problems re-signing their own free agents to big contracts. My point is that the major factor in signing FA is team stability and success on and off the court. These points contradict yours points

                • AB4EYE

                  Those towns are mega US media markets which lead to off the court endorsement money. Canadian starts aren’t that marketable in the US which drives sports.

              • Nilanka15

                Do you remember how the Celtics made those trades? They had a BOATLOAD of draft picks.

                • ItsAboutFun

                  I don’t know if they had a BOATLOAD, but the ones used in those trades were:
                  – Boston’s own just exercised #5 lottery pick (Jeff Green)
                  – Boston’s own 1st rounder 2 years later
                  – A conditional one they had of Minnesota’s.

                  We can easily match that “boatload”, and we should use it to get who/what, a la the great Boston model?

                • Nilanka15

                  KG seemed like such a unique circumstance. A true franchise player, toiling away in a small market team headed nowhere.

                  If that scenario develops itself again, I’m all for it.

                  Maybe Memphis decides to unload Gasol?

            • Chewwy

              The draft is never a guarantee and also what makes you think that if we get a top 5 pick, he will stay through all the losing? I highly doubt Kyrie Irving is gonna stay with Cleveland and that is a situation that I can see happening to us.

              • Ian Reynolds

                “Let’s not draft anyone ever because one day they might leave”

              • AB4EYE

                It gives us a shot, if he isn’t going to stay why would anyone else come on their own choice via FA? Every team starts somewhere and its virtually always with a high draft pick either using them or trading them.

          • Nilanka15

            “Competitive enough”. What does that even mean? Win 2 of every 5 games and an undeserved division title? Lose Lowry to free agency, and then wonder why we don’t have any elite talent next year?

  • jjdynomite

    I think Tim W. is going to kidnap Amir and Lowry so he can start beating his dead tank again. #NoGay #ThankGod #GoRaps

    • OzRapsFan

      Didn’t you know they won because the Thunder didn’t take them seriously? Just ask Tim W.

      • Jerry Garcia

        Mind blowing Raptor Karma ….miss Landry but how can you ask for any more entertainment than the last two games…..so stunning! 2014 !!

  • AxlT

    are those ratings really hooked up to anything?

  • Will

    With the way Lowry is playing, he’s going to fetch a handsome return when we do trade him.

  • Andre Julian Ward

    Take that tank nation !

  • Saskatoon Raps Fan

    I understand that Lowry probably still had to be traded, but man am I gonna be sad

  • Andre Julian Ward

    I’m happy Casey has moved away from running the offense through the wings and moved to running it through the most efficient players on the team; the bigs. Jonas, Amir, and Salmons.

  • Feather Ruffler

    I was on the edge of my seat most of this game! Really enjoyed the heart and hustle displayed. JV playing 35 minutes, Amir diving for that loose ball and a defeat of the toughest home court in the NBA? Onions baby, onions. What an excellent game to just sit back, be a fan and listen to the silence in that arena after our win.

  • AB4EYE

    What a nightmare this season is quickly becoming for the franchises future!

    Big time LOL at beating the undefeated at home OKC Thunder while not even shooting 40%. With the way things are going you just had to know the best team in the NBA would lay an egg and play one of their worst games in recent memory the day we come to town. Now a full game up in the Atlantic despite still being 3 games under .500. The only long term positive from this game I guess is maybe someone will want John Salmons after a nice showing vs OKC.

    Masai is now in the worst spot imaginable. If we move Lowry we are going to fall off but not far enough to make up for all these upset wins, if we keep Kyle it hurts adding assets for long term gain, and if we keep him we will also need to add to have any kind of shot in playoff which hurts us long term as well.

    • David Montford

      Raptors are 5/7 since Gay has stop playing for Toronto. That’s a 71% win rate.
      That’s top level basketball. And the Raptors probably would have won the Bobcat
      game if Casey didn’t sit Jonas.
      The future is here now.

      • AB4EYE

        So we can beat both the Heat and Pacers in a best of 7 series? If they win the East its worth not tanking since that’s an major accomplishment but anything else is just a wasted season in witch several franchise altering players are going to be in early third of the draft.

        While we are jacking about playing in the now several of the other teams in our division and conference are going to land those guys. Go look at last years Bucks that who we are shaping up to be and then look how going for it last year set them back this year.

        • TTTTtimmay

          Entirely plausible to tank and get screwed by the monster that is the draft. We’ve had top 5 picks, they haven’t panned out. Until fans like you decide to shed this culture of losing the franchise (and you, you uneducated Raptors fan you) will forever hold on to things like free pizza, dunk contests, and losing seasons.

          • AB4EYE

            Its possible but its still a proven way to win, way more than hope we get lucky on a late pick route. Our two best young players were both Top-10 picks.

            • David Montford

              Some NBA Title history:
              2012-2113 Miami
              2011-2012 Miami
              2010-2011 Dallas
              2009-2010 Los Angeles
              2008-2009 Los Angeles
              2007-2008 Boston
              What do these teams all have in common.
              None of these teams won because of a 1st, 2nd, 3rd, or 4th place pick in the draft.
              All these teams won because of F/A.

              • Ian Reynolds

                Boston traded all the players they drafted in the top half of the draft for assets to win titles.
                Kobe Bryant was drafted in the lottery.
                Dirk was drafted number 9 and Jason Kidd and Tyson Chandler were drafted number 2.
                Lebron was drafted 1, Wade 3, Bosh 4.

                So I guess almost all of those teams won because of the exact players you said they didn’t have.

                I realize you’re PROBABLY saying they didn’t draft them themselves, which is accurate. But those draft picks are still top assets, and those players that won those titles were still drafted very high.

                • David Montford

                  Ya. Meaning F/A works to produce a title team.

                • Ian Reynolds

                  Almost none of those players were free agents.

                • David Montford

                  That’s misleading because when the team trades for them the GM knows
                  he has to resign them when they become F/A’s.

                • Ian Reynolds

                  Huh ? Every player in league history has to be resigned when they eventually become free agents. I think I’m missing what you’re trying to say.

              • ac1011990

                SO tell us how to attract those big name free agents, us pro tankers are willing to sign free agents and make the team better. Please enlighten us on how your going to attract Durant, Lebron, Carmelo Love etc to the raptors. Tell me all the elite names the Raptors have signed through free agency, i could care less how Miami or Lakers attracted these players, enlighten us with your sales pitch.

                • David Montford

                  Certainly not by listening to you.
                  Tanking turns players off.
                  Money.
                  If you look at what winning teams spent compared to what other teams spent.
                  It was roughly 20 million.
                  I don’t get you or anybody else.
                  Lakers spent 92 mil to win their titles. Boston spent 87 mil to win theirs.
                  That’s why they won and Thunder haven’t because they didn’t have the money to
                  keep Harden or Martin.
                  Toronto spends 65 mil. There’s a difference 22 to 27 mil.
                  That’s why Toronto hasn’t won a title.
                  The new rules helps balance things. That’s why the Lakers are in trouble.
                  The playing field is a lot more even since the new contract.
                  I not sure why anybody thinks the Lakers are some magical team.
                  Give me 92 mil to build a team and give most of the other teams 65 mil to build a
                  team, guess what I’m probably going to win more titles.

                • AB4EYE

                  OKC got damn good from losing, the fact you talk about money spent should be even more reason to be pro tank.

                • ac1011990

                  Lolz no sir that is not correct, either the team has had a awesome reputation in the league for being a basketball city (Boston, Spurs) or its a star destination. As much as i love Toronto, Superstars born in the US would rather go to a big market team or a team like the Spurs or Boston due to there culture. Stars bring in revenue and winning, thats why those teams go over the tax because those 2 things make money. Even if we decide to spend 100 mill that does not mean the Lebrons and Durants decide to pick Toronto over the likes of New York or Los Angeles

                • 2damkule

                  people seem to forget that the teams that are over the cap/well into the tax are in that position because they re-signed THEIR OWN SUPERSTAR PLAYER(S). the CBA makes it really hard to go over the cap/tax to sign other team’s FAs, so the argument that you have to spend up to a certain limit to compete isn’t necessarily untrue, but there are caveats attached to it.

                • ac1011990

                  Ya but to make the extra money over the cap worthwhile you need to get the star player willing to commit to your team. If you have more quality players and you spend more money then ya obviously you have a better shot. If you spend more money with no good players then that point is useless

                • 2damkule

                  actually, what you really need is to have the star player already, and then let the economics of the CBA work in your favour (i.e. being able to sign him for a longer term & more money than he would be able to sign for with another team). if you have a player that’s worth signing to a max-level deal, then he is more likely than not to be a high enough calibre player that other FA’s would also want to sign with you. but it starts with having that initial star player, and as much as i like JV, and to a lesser extent, DD, ross, KL, et al, do any of them strike you as ‘THAT’ star?

                  that’s what i thought.

                • ac1011990

                  Im on the tanking side, im not sure what were really talking about here but i was arguing that we need a star player and the most likely way for the raptors to get one is the draft. I know we dont have any star players, thats why i want Masai to build thought the draft, and this years draft is the perfect way to start. David keeps saying that if we spend more money we could win, that argument doesnt really make sense if you have no one worth spending it on.

                • 2damkule

                  sorry, we’re making the same point…when you wrote, ‘you need to get the star player willing to commit to your team,’ i inferred that to mean that you need to be able to sign a star FA (i.e. that you don’t already have a star of your own to re-sign).

                • ac1011990

                  Oh ya, David keeps saying we dont need the draft for star players, he wants us to acquire star players through Free agency. I dont think he knows we actually need a star player to commit to playing with us before we spend 90 mill lolz. But yep we both are on the same side, kind of sad seeing how people forget the past few miserable years because of a win streak.

                • 2damkule

                  that’s how it always is, and always will be. they’re on a high right now, as they should be…the raps aren’t a laughingstock, and for many, that’s a high-water mark. there’s an awful lot of fans in for a rude awakening.

              • AB4EYE

                They win because their best players were lotto picks.

        • David Montford

          The Bucks weren’t playing at a 71% win rate.
          Nor go on the road and beat 2 quality Western teams. One being the Western Conference leader before this loss.
          Whether we can or can’t beat the Pacers or the Heat doesn’t mean you blow up a team
          that is playing at a 71% win rate and beating top teams.
          What a team does is build upon that success which is exactly what the Pacers have done.

          • AB4EYE

            Its 7 games dude, the Bucks won 5 of 7 games 3 times last year and had wins over OKC, Miami and the Pacers.

            • David Montford

              Yes, it’s 7 games because that’s how many games the Raptors have played without Gay.
              The trade has proven to have made a huge difference.
              This isn’t a winning streak. This is a totally different team.
              A team that’s gotten rid of a poor offensive weapon and converted it into a strong bench.

              • AB4EYE

                Even if we win every game the rest of the regular season what happens next. They aren’t winning the East or the Title and this roster is will change next year via FA so then what?

                The only thing winning does is has short term success. Would you rather sleep with a 7 a couple times or get have a shot to get with a 10 for several years or at least take home a strong 8 or 9 for a while and at worst have a 7 any time you want.

      • Raptoid

        I agree> Build on winning mentality not losing. Wiggy can choose to come in 4 while team continues to improve. No rush to land in 1st year as he is so young.

  • Philoveritas

    This must be Vegas interfering…Two improbable wins on a west coast road trip…so unexpected yet unsurprising…screw the tank…Draft day trade for Wiggans…Go balls for the wins!

    • 2damkule

      ‘Draft day trade for Wiggans’

      will never happen.

    • Nilanka15

      Nah, draft day trade for Lebron, Howard, Durant and CP3 instead.

  • golden

    So glad you pointed out the refs. Basically kept OKC in it, otherwise it’s a Raps blowout. Team showed a lot of character tonite, win or lose. Isn’t that what everybody’s been asking for?

  • Adriiian

    Just a great game. Wow, I’ve become a fan of Lowry, guy can ball and it showed tonight. Another meh night shooting from DD, with a lot of ill advised jumpers. Amir is turning into quite the player.
    Glad we came out with the W.
    2-0 on the road trip which we thought was going to be a 0-4.

    • caccia

      Lowry had 9 assists tonight. That’s very respectable for a point guard better known for his shooting. I really like his all-around game. He had some clutch plays in the fourth quarter.

  • Rick

    Great win! Hope they keep Lowry. He’s a great fit now that gay is gone. But he probably wouldn’t sign back at seasons end. So they’ll have to trade him. Which sucks. Oh ya tank what! Real fan talk.

  • lala

    DD grade B with 7/20 FGs, cmon. Demar give the ball to Amir and JV. Amir 64%, JV 60% tonight. Demar you’re second Gay or what? 35% from the field.

    • Age

      Cut DD some slack, his shot is not falling and teams are craping the D on him post the Gay trade as they feel he is the only threat on team. But for once in as many years I can remember, we are playing like a complete team and DD has been trying to make the right choices by giving up the ball to his teammates….and we be winning.

      Gay would sink with the ship before he would pass the ball

    • Lala’s a Bitch name

      “Second Gay”? Really, dude? He tried to get his team and himself, AS THE LEAD GUY ON THE TEAM NOW THAT GAY IS GONE. One game, fool. How’s he another Gay??? You’re just GAY. FOH!!

  • Louvens Remy

    “Trade DD! Trade Lowry! Their stock is high! Winning is overrated!”
    – The Tanking Manginas

  • rtzyyz

    Loved the game. Could care less if we tank or if try to go for playoffs. Team is fun. Haven’t enjoyed watching raptor games in a long time so this is quite the joy.
    Still think casey sucks but this team is too talented to bottom up completely and they have way too much heart.
    stop worrying about the tank or playoffs. Just enjoy that finally the raps are playing exciting ball.

  • AB4EYE

    For people who are against the tank why do you guys think winning games in 2013/14 and being around a 35 win team at best is good for the Raptors long term?

    The dreamworld best case scenario is going to the second round to get blasted by Miami or the Pacers, and not adding any long term talent while the best case scenario with tanking is getting a NBA star player and adding assets via trade to potential be the next Miami or Pacers..

    People point out to the rare times a team gets good while not taking but that’s an exception to the rule and need luck on a hidden gem in the draft or money and a good situation to sign FA OKC got so good by getting KD with the 2nd pick and Westbrook with the 4th Way more teams are turned around by hitting a lotto pick than taking late first round guys.

    • Louvens Remy

      There’s no evidence that a team has ever tanked. Shitty teams get a high pick because they suck. Then they pick the best player available. The draft is not the only way to get better. I want them to win as many games as possible. Make the playoffs, get blasted by the Heat or Pacers and trust the mgmt to make the right personnel decisions. I like wins.

      • AB4EYE

        No but there is evidence the better pick you get the better chance you have to get a star and if you get a star you have a shot of getting god players to want to play with him.

        • Louvens Remy

          No. The only truism is if u continue to lose you’re team is a born loser. Losing sucks. I trust mgmt to want to win and make the playoffs and do their jobs and scout and evaluate players properly and choose accordingly.

          • AB4EYE

            Every team has been bad and they get a star player in the draft and that usually turns things around.

      • Nilanka15

        In the NBA, 35 wins is far worse for a franchise than 15 wins.

        • ItsAboutFun

          Why are you squirming and peddling the tank agenda? Isn’t the team already in full tank mode, and you’re amazed that some can’t see it?

          • Nilanka15

            Yup, still amazed that folks would rather receive $1 today, instead of $20 tomorrow.

            • ItsAboutFun

              That’s not the point. Tell me again what I’m missing in not seeing that the tank is in full swing. And why the angst if they are?

              • Nilanka15

                Check the forums. Plenty of points there.

                As for angst, what angst?

                • ItsAboutFun

                  If by “plenty”, you mean none,,,, yup you have a point.

                • Nilanka15

                  You need to read more threads then.

        • Louvens Remy

          That’s too bad for the NBA, where winning is not a good thing. I’ll take wins over losses and take my chances on this management doing their jobs scouting and developping talent over losing to maybe get a few ping pong balls. The NBA needs to find a way to abolish this loser mentality. it’s not good for the integrity of the league.

          • Nilanka15

            Winning IS a good thing. What the Raptors having been doing for years is NOT winning.

            The irony is that this “loser” label will remain as long as the goal is to simply squeak into the playoffs in a weak division.

    • Feather Ruffler

      Sorry did Miami or Indiana tank and have their fan base cheer against their own teams to get where they are right now? I’m confused… George – pick #10? Hibbert – pick #17 (via trade)? They are where they are because of exceptional scouting, timely free agent acquisitions and proper development of their young assets…and a certain degree of luck.

      • AB4EYE

        Miami got Wade with the 5th pick so losing got them a star plus they are a destination location with no income tax while playing for us means extra tax. The Pacers won without tanking but they got lucky on several picks that isn’t a plan that works its getting lucky and something you can intend to do.

        • Feather Ruffler

          Totally agree about hoping to get lucky being a fools errand. But Miami could be considered lucky for Wade turning out to be such a fabulous player, when in that draft all anybody really cared about was Lebron, Carmelo or Darko (geez). There’s a lot of talent available and it isn’t only in a top 3 pick, just ask Minnesota (Olowakandi), Portland (Oden) or hell even Toronto (Bargnani). Winning organizations surround themselves with people who allow them to succeed just look at San Antonio, that’s sustainable success and I think that’s what the Raps should be hoping to attain. Not hoping that a numerical combination will allow them future success. That’s just my opinion, and I respect yours even if I don’t agree with it.

          • AB4EYE

            He was a Top-5 pick far more of those pan out than bust, and you’re going to get far more elite players there.

            • Feather Ruffler

              If you go back to the last five NBA drafts and their top five picks who stands out as elite? Irving is about it. OK we’ll add Cousins maybe? Griffin possibly for arguments sake? That’s 3 of 25 players…In those same drafts in the 15-20 range? Lawson, Bledsoe, Larry Sanders, Kawhi Leonard, Vucevic, definitely not “elite” players but talented and solid. The lottery is not the be all and end all,

              • chris

                john wall, james harden, anthony davis? all are easily elite

              • AB4EYE

                This post is a big time reach but you also leave out this is going to be one of the best drafts in recent history. #5 this year could be better than most years 1s and 2s.

    • Suspisious Mind

      Name another team that tanked in order to achieve success…And to answer your question, being a playoff team this year is good for the Raps because we have a solid base to build on for the first time in ages, with cap room to make moves and the best GM in the league to pull the trigger on doing so. Try to enjoy what is FINALLY an entertaining team.

      • AB4EYE

        Go look and where all north American stars and drafted!

        • Suspisious Mind

          I was hoping you could back up your statement. Losing on purpose in order to attain a high draft pick is rarely done. Even when it is (Cavs-Lebron) there has not been any team I can think of that has won a championship based on this model. And before you use Timmy and San Antonio, that was not a tank, rather a result of a season ending David Robinson injury.

          • AB4EYE

            Look where the stars are drafted that all need, you have to have stars to have any shot at a ring.

            • Suspisious Mind

              Yes I agree. But tanking is not the only method in achieving this. If BC were still at the helm, there would be no louder tank voice than mine, because as we all know he is an incompetent useless tit. But, in this case, we have flexibility, a legit starting centre, a proven albeit ineffecient 2 guard that works hard to improve his game, Amir who will ideally come off the bench one day on an elite raps team and the BEST GM in the league. Add to that some attractive tradeable assets, we’re in a decent position to aquire the right moment to get a star calibre player. Masai is a scouting master, and we’re a Paul George away from being legit.

              • AB4EYE

                Winning 35 games damn sure isn’t the way to achieve it.

                • Suspisious Mind

                  When you’re finished with your crystal ball, I’d love to borrow it. Many things happen when you build on a winning culture. I’m sure you’ve played team sports at some level in your life, and it’s tough to argue that being competitive on a game by game basis, doesn’t create an organic growth that spurts much quicker than losing and HOPING for the best. In any event, as is the norm with tank vs not tank, we’ll have to agree to disagree for now.

                • AB4EYE

                  Winning culture is BS we could win the rest of the game we play until the playoffs we still aren’t getting a ring and no FA is going to come here unless we overpay. If the Raps are every going to be good it will be from hitting in the draft.

                • Nilanka15

                  The same winning culture that Casey’s been instilling for 3 years?

      • DryDry

        “Name another team that tanked in order to achieve success”

        Uhhh, let’s see now:

        Cleveland pre-James.

        Orlando pre-Howard.

        Spurs pre-duncan. Celtics tried to tank for Duncan that year too.

        Rockets pre-Olajuwon.

        OKC post-Durant to get Westbrook

        Any other questions

        • HogyG

          Yeah, can you prove they tanked (over just being a poor team) to get those picks?

          Houston increased their win totals by 15 going up to (29-53) from the year before (14-68) by the time they entered the draft for Olajiwan, that’s not what a pro tank team does.

          Orlando got crushed losing Shaq and had not yet recovered when having the opportunity to pick Howard.

          Cleveland hadn’t had a winning season since 1997-98 before they got LBJ, I guess they were just on the 5 year tank plan to get him, right?

          Spurs suffered an injury to their superstar player at the time, leaving them no one to win out games in the tough western conference, they just happened to turn lemons into lemon-aid by drafting Duncan for their troubles. You aren’t trying to suggest that The Admiral purposefully got hurt so they could obtain another top tier talent are you?

          • Suspisious Mind

            Thanks for saving me the trouble HogyG

            • 2damkule

              no, thank YOU for spelling your own name wrong. it is marvelous.

          • AB4EYE

            Does it matter how they got there? They were bad got elite picks and became good. We’ve sucked since day one and will always suck until we land a star in the draft, in case you haven’t noticed star players don’t want to come here.

          • DryDry

            Prove it?

            Every team I listed = common knowledge!

            Excepppppppt the Magic. (Shaq left in 1996 and Howard arrived 8 years later! Shaq is entirely irrelevant to the discussion. Before 2004, it was the McGrady era.) But I can’t find enough suspect moves to claim they tanked, so I’ll retract it.

            Houston increasing 15 to 29 wins = entirely irrelevant. They used the season to “evaluate” different line ups, which was obvious code for tanking. They even played the rotting festering corpse of Elvin Hayes extensively so he could reach 50,000 career minutes. Hell, they changed the entire draft after Houston’s antics.

            Cleveland saw the pot of gold and adjusted accordingly. The way they built their team to lose was quite impressive. Lamond Murray traded for YOGI STEWART? Wow. Wesley Person for Matt Barnes? Why would John Lucas say they were tanking if they weren’t? And I quote: “They trade all our guys away and we go real young, and the goal was to get LeBron and also to sell the team. I didn’t have a chance. … You can’t fault the Cavaliers for wanting to get LeBron. It was hard to get free agents to come there.”

            Spurs shut Robinson, Person and Elliot down and never made any roster moves to save the season. Injuries on purpose? Obviously not. Reaction to injuries? Obvious. There were all kinds of questions about Robinson’s foot and whether it had healed enough but they were still holding him out.

            You didn’t refute OKC. It’s clear their masterful trades for the future sacrificed the (then) present. And look at them now.

            • ItsAboutFun

              “OKC…… look at them now”. Looking at them in a different city. Great model to follow, hey. You want Toronto fans to relate to Seattle fans?

              Spurs. Anybody who says they tanked needs to ditch the foil hat and get a stainless steel one.

              Houston getting better is tanking. Okay

              Cleveland: How they doing with that LeBron guy?

              • DryDry

                Hey, I’m merely stating the well-established and agreed upon facts about various tanking scenarios in the NBA over the past few decades.

                OKC/Seattle: Well, the a-holes who wanted to move the team did their best to sabotage things and lose Seattle fans. They were all set with the 2nd pick, and everyone knew they would take Durant. Ohhh, but what happened just before they picked Durant? They traded Ray Allen for scraps and the 5th pick. What happened later in the summer? They traded Lewis for a draft pick and a trade exception (no players!). Yeah, that’s a franchise trying to win – ditching Allen AND Lewis. They sucked (20-62) and then moved to OKC. I never said this was a model for Toronto to follow. I’m saying it’s an example of tanking.

                Spurs: go look it up. They kept Elliot and Robinson out of the lineup completely when they realized the season was going to suck, and had their eyes on the Duncan prize.

                Houston: you don’t appear to understand what they did: they had to finish with the worst or 2nd worst record to have a chance at the coin flip for the 1st pick. So they made sure they got there. Do you understand that their record improving over the previous season is entirely irrelevant?

                Cleveland: I don’t understand your comment. They got Lebron and then had amazing reg. season records and made the NBA finals twice with him. Not sure how anybody can argue they didn’t tank when their former coach, John Lucas, who was there, said they did.

      • hoogie

        What the tankers are failing to consider is the business side of sports. To throw games in order to get picks means you lose a good part of your NOW paying fan base. It doesn’t matter if you get that one top #3-#5 pick because you will have depleted your paying fan base and damage the ownerships ability(willingness) to pay to surround that pick with decent backup players. Winning games now increases the paying fan base and increases the teams respectability within the league which, in turn, may attract some of the more elite backup players. Sports is a business and as such requires financial input from paying fans. Toronto has some of the most loyal paying fans in the league. Those fans go to the games now even though the Raps have never won a title or even seriously contended for one. They go because the Raps are fun to watch and can compete in any given game with any team. Tanking kills us long term.

    • David Montford

      Show us wear tanking has consistently built title teams?

      • AB4EYE

        OKC, its not going to lock up a title but it will give you a better shot than we ever had.

        • Hound

          They never tanked. They were just bad. Your tanking strategy means that all thirteen teams in the East and at least 8 in the West should tank, because all of those teams (21 of them) have no chance of winning a championship. That in itself is terrible for the league.
          Also, there is no way the Raptors can get bad enough to get into the top 5 anyway. Best case scenario is trade Lowry, if we can get a mid first round pick, then try to trade 1 of our first round picks and New York’s pick in 16 to get into the top 7 or so.

          • CJT

            Take that thought one step further, the reality is that 4 teams are true contenders for the ring so 26 teams should be tanking every year. It’s ridiculous to use this as your strategy to build a team.

          • 2damkule

            whether a team is ‘just bad’ or tanks on purpose is irrelevant…all that matters is, when you’re not a good enough team to legitimately challenge for a title, getting high draft picks is a bona fide way to improve the chances of building your team into a contender.

            the end.

        • HogyG

          The big difference is, they didn’t purposefully lose AKA tank to obtain their talent, they just stunk back then and were lucky enough to choose wisely for several drafts in a row and patiently develop their talent before giving it up and throwing it away. If anything all it shows is what good management and patience can do for a team. Like being patient while our top 5 pick JV develops into an all-star big man over the next few years (something OKC fails to have to this day).

          You’re sounding like the kind of person who believes only the top 20 players in the league can do anything and just assume everyone else is shit so they can’t possibly be helpful. There arguably wasn’t a top 10 player from the league on the 2003-04 Detroit team, yet they managed to win a championship.

          • AB4EYE

            Who cares if they tanked or not they lost enough to get game changing players when they couldn’t sign any.

      • DryDry

        Spurs Duncan
        Rockets Olajuwan

        • HogyG

          wrong!

          • DryDry

            Uh, the draft lottery was invented because of Houston’s bullshit tanking.

            The Spurs? Look it up.

            Also,

            Cleveland pre-James.

            Orlando pre-Howard.

            Celtics tried to tank for Duncan too.

            OKC post-Durant to get Westbrook

            • HogyG

              You must be a bit slow eh, I already explained that those are not valid options in the post above, but here they are again since you missed it.

              Houston increased their win totals by 15 going up to (29-53) from the year before (14-68) by the time they entered the draft for Olajiwan, that’s not what a pro tank team does.

              Orlando got crushed losing Shaq and had not yet recovered when having the opportunity to pick Howard.

              Cleveland hadn’t had a winning season since 1997-98 before they got LBJ, I guess they were just on the 5 year tank plan to get him, right?

              Spurs suffered an injury to their superstar player at the time, leaving them no one to win out games in the tough western conference, they just happened to turn lemons into lemon-aid by drafting Duncan for their troubles. You aren’t trying to suggest that The Admiral purposefully got hurt so they could obtain another top tier talent are you?

              As for OKC they Durant had no one with him and was still in the painful development stages of his career where he was learning how to win. They stunk when they first got Durant and Westbrook and needed time to develop and learn how to close out games against tough competition.

              As for the reason the NBA created the draft it was to create interest in the league, which was in a state of flux and very nearly about to go extinct. They needed changes in their system to create interest in their more unsuccessful franchises. I can only assume that you read Bill Simmons opinion of Houston’s tanking efforts back then as I have had others bring him up as the reason they wrongfully believed Houston tanked. Of course this opinion comes from a man who was 13 at the time, hardly a rock solid source of information.

              Restating team names does not magically make them valid again. Nice try though.

              • 2damkule

                look, this whole tank/no-tank debate has gotten side-tracked. it doesn’t matter HOW a team goes about getting the high pick, can we not agree that it is the fact that they have the high pick that was the key to building a chip (or contending) team? why does it matter HOW they got the pick, whether it was ‘luck’ (robinson getting hurt), or purposeful (sonics for durant)?

              • DryDry

                You can read my response above. Besides Orlando, which I retracted (but you assessed wrongly BTW), all the others tanked.

                You claim Houston didn’t tank for Hakeem but the former coach said they did? Of course, you, the anonymous internet ball fan is right and John Lucas is making shit up.

                Here’s my response post from above:
                —————-
                Excepppppppt the Magic. (Shaq left in 1996 and Howard arrived 8 years later! Shaq is entirely irrelevant to the discussion. Before 2004, it was the McGrady era.) But I can’t find enough suspect moves to claim they tanked, so I’ll retract it.

                Houston increasing 15 to 29 wins = entirely irrelevant. They used the season to “evaluate” different line ups, which was obvious code for tanking. They even played the rotting festering corpse of Elvin Hayes extensively so he could reach 50,000 career minutes. Hell, they changed the entire draft after Houston’s antics.

                Cleveland saw the pot of gold and adjusted accordingly. The way they built their team to lose was quite impressive. Lamond Murray traded for YOGI STEWART? Wow. Wesley Person for Matt Barnes? Why would John Lucas say they were tanking if they weren’t? And I quote: “They trade all our guys away and we go real young, and the goal was to get LeBron and also to sell the team. I didn’t have a chance. … You can’t fault the Cavaliers for wanting to get LeBron. It was hard to get free agents to come there.”

                Spurs shut Robinson, Person and Elliot down and never made any roster moves to save the season. Injuries on purpose? Obviously not. Reaction to injuries? Obvious. There were all kinds of questions about Robinson’s foot and whether it had healed enough but they were still holding him out.

                You didn’t refute OKC. It’s clear their masterful trades for the future sacrificed the (then) present. And look at them now.

  • Louvens Remy

    Obviously OKC lost on purpose. Right?

    • KevinWarren

      Nope. OKC may have been tired on the back end of a back-to-back but they do not like to lose and came out tonight to win. You guys beat us fair and square. It was a close game that came down to the wire and in the end, Toronto earned the win. Congrats. Go Thunder! :)

      • Jerry Garcia

        Thanks for weighing in !!

  • Suspisious Mind

    Man I’m getting tired of tank nation. You’re becoming more irrational than a woman in her 9th month of pregnancy. Is it so difficult to believe that this team has enough talent to build on, and more importantly has too much talent to tank with 10 other teams in a way better tanking position? Even when we beat an undefeated OKC in OKC, it’s still because they had an off night. Is it possible, they had an off night due to a spirited effort defensively? Even while having to play against the 6th man on the court “the refs”. DESPITE having the WORST coach in the league (Easily cost us a few wins this year) we are still competitive on a nightly basis. We’ve had our fair share of heart breakers and a difficult schedule, but we’re still in a position to make a move for the 3rd seed. Yes, I understand the east is horrible, but this franchise needs a playoff run. And no, we are not in a position to beat the Heat or Pacers in the 2nd round, but we have cap room, good solid pieces already in place and the best GM in the league, who has proven time and time again to be able to fleece other GM’s in trades. This team is rolling post Gay trade, and rather than putting all your damn eggs in a stupid NON PROVEN tank basket, enjoy the ride and trust the Masaia.

    • Age

      Hear, Hear!

  • KevinWarren

    Good game tonight. That was a big win for y’all. Back and forth, toe to toe. The Raptors won it when they needed to. Congrats. Good luck the rest of the way. Go Thunder!

    • Feather Ruffler

      I’m a Raptors fan till my death, but I really enjoy the Thunder. Durant is the class act of the NBA in my eyes and the OKC fans are what all NBA fans should aspire to be. Fantastic organization.

  • Louvens Remy

    Where is Tim W to put all this bad winning in it’s proper existential context?

    • d

      I can hear crickets

  • GetLicks

    Shhhhhhh TankNation

    • Tanking is worse than hippies

      Every single comment telling tank nation to suck it gets an upvote in my books

      • AB4EYE

        And gets 5 extra losses in 3 years when all blowing this draft comeback and kills us.

        • HogyG

          The only true wisdom is in knowing that you know nothing.

          • AB4EYE

            You and everyone who loves these wins now will be beyond pissed when we’re still on the treadmill and JV goes to NY as a FA and we’re in a never ended rebuilding stage.

            • HogyG

              Don’t tell me how I’ll feel in the future about this team, what do you know about anyone on here other than yourself? YOU may be “pissed” about the team now or in the future. Personally, I’ll never be pissed at the Raptors, regardless of talent level and league standings as long as they give it their all every night like they are currently. Just because you pessimistically want to project JV leaving for NY of all places, doesn’t remotely make it so.

              I may be disappointed when the team loses or even irate when Casey seemingly throws a close one away because of rotational decisions or lack of offensive scenarios, and of course I want them to compete for a championship, but I’m not ever willing to throw away or bad mouth current success for a chance at a lottery ticket in an upcoming sweepstakes. If we find ourselves in that position, fine. If not, it will mean current success. No one can say what the future holds, our current roster has a core of young quality talent that can blossom into long term success and development or it could end up being a bust, but for me, it’s all about the fight our players have on the court when they come to represent each night…and tonight they brought the thunder to the Thunder!!

              Speak for yourself, because you certainly don’t speak for me.

              • Louvens Remy

                It sucks that u have to type a novel n order for these weird Basketmath geeks to get it. Unfortunately Sportvu and other graphs and charts can’t properly measure heart, winning culture and intangibles so they get confused and buy into whatever Hollinger or Zach Lowe tells them is true. All these so called “tanking’ teams either are poorly managed or are young and inexperienced. The Raptors fall into the latter. They may not b the best talent but they are turning the corner. I’m excited.

                • HogyG

                  I’m excited too, I think there’s a lot to enjoy about this team currently. I look forward to what the rest of the season brings.

                  Go Raptors!!

        • Tank Bomber

          ou’re addicted to NBA2K games. Tanking every year, “to get better” is equal to running backwards and wondering why you can’t finish the race. Smarten up and quit trying to kill the culture of sport, whichis competition and WINNING. You tankers are like a man-bitch who takes it, missionary in jail because you’re afraid. Grow some nuts and WANT your team to COMPETE and WIN. That is all.

          • AB4EYE

            What are we going backwards from we already suck!

          • kameko

            yah we’re really winning aren’t we? “WINNING” is what portland is doing right now with 23-5. meanwhile even with this ‘win streak’, we only have 3 more wins than UTAH who are second from the bottom of the entire league. get that in your brain, buddy. thats not winning.

            • Duke

              Uhhh Utah has played 5 more games, buddy. And I don’t know what is up the rear-end of all you tankers, but take your crap somewhere else. How long have you been a fan of this team? My guess is not very long, considering you’re still not happy after a pretty impressive 4-game road win streak (something this team hasn’t accomplished in over 10 years). Winning on the road especially against good teams is a sign of mental toughness and teams starting to turn the corner. Why shouldn’t fans be excited? And even if you want them to lose, go take your bullshit somewhere else

  • golden

    I would give Ross a pass tonite. I mean look at who he was guarding (Durant) and he harassed him into a rare poor shooting night. If only we could have those minutes back from last year that Casey gave to Alan Anderson. Ross would be hitting those more of those mid-range pull-ups right about now.

  • Thomas

    Maybe people forget that Masai didn’t need high draft picks to get good players. Traded for Ty Lawson (drafted 18th) and drafted Kenneth Faried 20th overall. Guy is a master scout and I don’t think we need a top draft pick to still get a quality player in the draft.

    • AB4EYE

      He got lucky one so you think he;s going to do it again? The reason reason he got GM of the year is what all he got by traded Melo to NY, without that trade they are still bad even with those 2 players. Last I checked we don’t have a superstar to trade for an historic amount.

      • Thomas

        You can call it getting lucky while I call it good scouting and making the best of your draft spot. Agree to disagree

        • AB4EYE

          You could call it that but its grasping at straws. If he could do it every time why did he take bad picks like Evan Fournier?

          He took Faried who set the NCAA record for rebounding, all he does in NBA is rebound its not like he got something great just picked what he expected him to be. He got lucky the T-Wolves took Lawson after taking 2 other PG and he had an extra pick to ship to them..

          His whole name was made off trading a superstar for a ton and getting a good PG from David Kahn who was one of the worst GM in league history.

          • Dr. Doom

            You’re obviously looking at flashy over fundamentals, kid. Masai picks on need and gets the best that he can in that regard. You’re just a hater with no real basketball sense. Find another team to “root” for, you’re obviously not a true fan. GTFOH!!!

            • AB4EYE

              What else did he do that was so special?

              He took advantage of Kahn who all in the same draft took Rubio 5th, Flynn 6th and Lawson 18th all who play PG, he had an extra pick from a bad team so he sent it to them and he got it done.

              The Faried move wasn’t off the charts they needed a guy to rebound so they picked him. He set the NCAA record for rebounding so its not like they didn’t know what he was getting.

              He also moved one of the best scorers in NBA history for a ton of prospects. That’s it, his rosters have won zero playoff series.

      • MalcomX

        Yoah! are you suggesting for ONE MINUTE that my man Rduy is not a superstar?? You gotta admit the sleepy eyed dude with the raggedy chin whiskers has been helping Amir with the coverage on KD and Dirk – two wins NOBODY predicted. The Raps are winning with defense and it’s fun fun fun ’til our daddy takes the Tbird away ay ay .

  • Regina Raps Fan

    Gotta have a winning culture in T.Dot first & foremost. I’ll take a first round exit and a boat load of experience over a ping pong ball. Not worried about Wiggins cuz he and maybe even Bennett will sign here eventually once they develop somewhere else

    • bobdigi08

      Because it worked for the Bucks last year, right?

      • Stupid-Remover

        No, because it could just fuckin happen. Geez. Do people jus like to be negative towards our team and call themselves “fans”? Join another team’s thread and make it official. smh

        • Nilanka15

          Translation: “If you don’t think like I think, go away”

          • ItsAboutFun

            To counterbalance the incessant “If you don’t like my tanking fantasies, I’m going to pound away, over and over and over, and………………………………………”? Perhaps

            • Nilanka15

              So you agree with the translation?

  • raptorspoo

    BC REINCARNATED!

    We’re going to have our BEHINDS handed back to us in the first round of the playoffs – if we get there. Not to mention, have no hope for the future.

    All in a good days work. Good job Masai~

    • raptorspoo

      And “good on ya” ya short-sighted tank bashing Raptors fans. You have a bright future~

    • Ion66

      The way things are going, holding onto the Atlantic title could allow us to avoid playing Miami or Indiana if I read things right. Beyond them, I’d take my chances, especially if we picked up a bit more talent later in the season. A few teams may pull a tank nation and trade away talent for scraps, just to ensure the lottery. Landry and Austin Daye for….?

  • retep9

    Wonderful entertainment! This is a totally different team since the trade but the TV broadcasting is simply awful. Devlin is undoubtedly the worst play by play guy in the league.(By contrast Jones and Smith are the best radio guys in the biz).
    The dilemma over Lowry is really difficult. Will the narrative change to giving him a contract extension? if so for how much? If not, he must be traded sooner rather than later. On a smaller scale the same questions could be posed about Salmons and Vasquez and to a lesser extent Patterson. All have proven to be valuable assets. All are on expiring contracts.

    • 2damkule

      it’s not really a question of whether the raps want to re-sign lowry, but whether he’d want to re-sign in TO, knowing that if he keeps up his current level of play, he’ll be an attractive FA during the off-season.

      disagree re. salmons, the general & PP, i think they’re trade assets & will be dealt this year…all have value (albeit marginal) to contending teams, so if they can be packaged for picks (future 2nds), then they’ll be moved.

  • Eric Cartman Hates Tank Nation

    Tank Nation sucking a fat c*ck tonight, your tears are so satisfying

    • AB4EYE

      Those will be the anti-Tanks tears in a few years when these wins come back and start haunting us while we still blow.

      • MythBuster

        why are you so salty? We have had #1 picks before, we had top 5 picks? in 20 years we have been pure trash and made the second round once, tanking is not a guarantee, I’m sorry.

        • AB4EYE

          I’m tired of being bad long term and this is a star power draft. Getting high picks has a better track record of making teams better than being a first round turkey shoot for an elite team.

          • CJT

            We really don’t know what this draft will be. None of the so called frachise changing talents have done anything to suggest that they will become anything at all and that is against college level talents

          • HogyG

            In the last packed draft, we got the 4th pick (as good as we could ever hope for in this upcoming draft), and chose CB4. Not a bad player by any means, but hardly the franchise player we all wanted out of the best draft in the past decade. Somehow you and tank nation have convinced yourselves that buying a lottery ticket is a more secure way of earning money than it is by holding down a steady job. Wake up and enjoy the competition level the team is bringing. Nothing is guaranteed in the future.

            • AB4EYE

              If you think Masai can work magic with a 18 pick just think what he could do with a Top 10.

            • Roger MacIntyre

              Jeepers! You concisely said what I tried to in just a few sentences! EXACTLY!

        • Delabar’s Weighted Balls

          united we stand divided we fall

          • Jerry Garcia

            United

  • tonious35

    I believe in good Karma…No tanking needed, players and the team (the franchise) will get their just desserts if they really try to win every game. Bad losses will happen like against Charlotte, but the vibe of this team winning or losing is just great! No drudging and depression like when this team had a player like Gay destroying the minutes and possessions for the entire team. Fine we don’t get top 10 2014 pick, but the vast improvement and play of every team member might net us more 1st round picks for 2014….you never know….

  • Tomas

    You can still win in the NBA with a good front line (amir, val) why tank if you are winning? Just develop Val and put some decent pieces around him and you can be 2 years ahead of a potential tank pay off

  • DryDry

    Amir blocked Westbrook on his shitty end of game layup but they gave it to Jonas?

    • SR

      I think Jonas got a piece of it first, then Amir sent it to the floor.

  • doncity

    Sorry, but if you’re on a site claiming to be the fan of a team, and still saying they should lose on purpose even after a big road win like this one you’re not a fan you’re an obvious troll and I’ve been saying it for months. Trolls please leave, thanks. Go “support” another team if you can’t keep it zipped even after a big win.

    • ad

      A true fan is willing to endure the team sucking for a year for the long term. Impatient casual fans are the ones who are mostly anti tank. This was a very nice win and I give the team props as a pro tanker.

      • doncity

        that’s nonsense – total idiocy… if we were in a bar downtown right now and you said that to my face I might challenge you to a fight as any self-respecting fan would after a big win…

        what about the fans who won’t see next year? what do they get? a bunch of cynical nonsense from know-it-all stat geeks who can’t stand to be wrong even for one night?

        • ad

          As a fan, I understand the natural inclination to want to see your team win. In the nba, you need stars though and most teams get them through the draft unless you are miami, ny, la, etc. Right now, raps dont have those. They have good players (lowry, val, dd, amir) but they can only take you so far and the goal shouldnt be a treadmill team. Long term title contending should be the goal. In the short term, sure enjoy the win.

        • ac1011990

          Lolz you can say what you want to pro tankers and when you get a fair reply back you want to fight. Ok you may want to calm down a bit, this is a sport dont forget that. We all watch for the fun of it, people have different opinions doesnt mean you get your feelings hurt. Were all fans of the team and nobody is saying to lose on purpose i dont get how people cant understand such a simple concept. The GM lowers the ceiling of the team, nobody wants the team to start jacking up half court shots.

          • doncity

            you guys are either morons or 16 years old or both – hope it’s the latter for your sake
            my advice to you is enjoy life as it comes – no one knows what tomorrow may bring

            • ad

              LOL pro sports doesnt work that way. In an ideal world, every team in the nba could win a title and turn into a championship contender overnight. You have to build for the future. Thats the nature of pro sports.

              • doncity

                you know nothing about pro sports – if you did you’d realize the Raptors are on the way up and have been since the middle of last season

                • ad

                  HAHAHA. Talk to me at the trade deadline. Ok, im done.

            • ac1011990

              Lolz thats your reply back, really? calling me a moron when you wanted to fight a person for saying the exact same thing you said to him. I dont really need life advice from you, but thanks.

              • ad

                Dont get too worked up dealing with idiots like this. Let them vent.

                • ac1011990

                  Lolz i think hes been drinking abit at the bar hes waiting people to come fight him at :)

                • doncity

                  the only idiots are people who come on sites like this acting like they’re smarter than everyone else acting like we shouldn’t be happy about a win – grow up

              • doncity

                stop antagonizing fans online and let people enjoy a big win before Christmas

                • ac1011990

                  I find you fun to talk to, mainly because you dont make sense, anyways Merry Christmas, enjoy then win, i shall antagonize you no longer :)

      • doncity

        oh well, since some sore loser has decided to delete my very relevant comments on the sourpusses who constantly show up on here to spew their anti-Raptor rhetoric even after HUGE wins like tonight, I won’t be posting here any longer. If anyone needs me I’ll be at the bar celebrating another great Raptor effort.

        • Ian Reynolds

          didn’t you get banned from RHQ for going there and attacking everyone the same way?

          • doncity

            banned? lols I have better things to do than argue with random people online about things I can’t control. I don’t run the team and I don’t pretend anyone really cares about my opinion. I’m just a Raptors fan who likes to see the team win. People act all brave and super smart/cynical on the internet but I guarantee you if you met Masai/DD/Amir/whoever in person you wouldn’t have anything to say except can I have your autograph.

            • 2damkule

              you said you wouldn’t be posting any longer. LIAR!

              • doncity

                I keep forgetting everyone on here is 14. My bad.

    • Ian Reynolds

      Just because you’ve “been saying it for months” doesn’t mean everyone you disagree with is a troll. Troll is the dumbest word on the internet. Everyone uses it the second they don’t agree with someone. It’s so stupid. Some people want to tank. Some people don’t. I’m so sick of the slightest disagreements coming down to “TROLL” and “NOT TRUE FANS”.

      • doncity

        whatever dude – you’re on here crying because the Raptors are winning games. To me that’s the definition of trolling on a Raptors “fan” message board

        • Ian Reynolds

          Are you kidding me?

          I’m on here crying because Raptors are winning games? Can you read? I argued a guy throwing around the word troll. I’m crying about the lack of class and respect. Everyone acts like they’re 14 years old with names like “UJIRIGOTS2GO”, “TANKERS ARE FUCKING COCKSUCKING PUSSY FAGGOTS” and says “FUCK YOU TANKERS”.

          I said I’m sick of disagreements devolving into name calling and so your solution to that is come in and call me names and say i’m not allowed to be a fan.

          Everyone who disagrees with you is not a “true fan”, right? Grow the fuck up.

          Everyone wants the team to do well now and in the future, and we have differing opinions on how it should best be handled. That’s not trolling and that’s not someone being more of a fan than someone else. It’s adults having differing opinions. We’re not in elementary school.

          • doncity

            look at you! I can see the tears in every keystroke – my god… You really take these wins personally, don’t you?

            • Ian Reynolds

              Ian: Said nothing about the wins and everything about the name calling.

              CJT: OMG QUIT WHINING ABOUT THE WINS

  • ad

    As a pro tanker, I really enjoyed this win. Still think tanking is best for the long term unless MU can somehow land a true star for this team. Ive always been a big fan of lowry and knew he he was a better player than what hes shown with the raps. Casey is a tool that misuses his best players and has hampered val and lowry. Also, can we please trade ross. He is AWFUL. Terrible pick.

    • 2damkule

      agree re. enjoying the win as a pro-tanker. that’s the biggest fallacy, and quickest strawman argument out of the anti-tank brigade, that we ‘aren’t true fans.’ if anything, i’d say that being willing to suffer through the ignominy of losing with an eye to the future is as big a test of being a fan as there is.

  • Hound

    2010 Draft – #2 Derrick Williams #3 Enes Cantor #6 Jan Vesley
    2009 Draft – #2 Hasheem Thabeet #4 Tyreke Evans #6 Johnny Flynn
    2008 Draft – #2 Michael Beasley #3 OJ Mayo #6 Danilo Galinari
    2007 Draft – #1 Greg Oden #4 Mike Conly #5 Jeff Green
    2006 Draft – #1 Andrea #3 Adam Morrison #4Tyrus Thomas #5 Sheldon Williams
    2005 Draft – #2 Marvin Williams #5 Ray Felton #6 Martell Webster
    This is how the draft works. It consistently turns out some serviceable NBA players, but does not guarantee anything. The only teams that have drafted in the top 5 over the last ten years, that have won a championship are Miami, Dallas and Boston. Their selections of Beasley, Harris and Green respectively, with the marginal exception of Harris, had little to nothing to do with them winning championships. Money and trades made them contenders.
    TANK THAT!

    • ad

      Dude, this is the strongest draft since 03.

      • Hound

        2003 Draft – #2 Darko Milicic # 3 Carmelo (never will win in NBA) # 6 Chris Kaman #7 Kirk Heinrich #8 TJ Ford. Yes, as proven, if you could of secured the #1 Lebron #4 Bosh and #5 Wade in that same year you could win a championship, however, we know how great it was to tank and get Bosh 4th in 03, Rafeal Arujo 8th in 04, Charlie Villanueva 7th in 05, and then get Andrea with the #1 pick in 06. That really worked out well for us!!!!!. TANK YOU VERY MUCH

      • Louvens Remy

        Says a bunch of talking heads. This draft will yield a couple all stars, maybe 1 superstar and the rest will b serviceable role players. That’s what drafts are.

        • AB4EYE

          How about we get that superstar over a first round exit at best.

          • Louvens Remy

            Hey, I’m down to get the superstar. It’s up to the management to draft wisely. Whether it’s 1, 7, 18 or 30. I personally don’t put a lot of stake in superstars. Usually u need like 2 or 3 to win anyway. With 2004 pistons and 2011 mavericks. The Phoenix suns w Nash had arguably 2 or 3 superstars. They won nothing, but u think their fans didn’t love every minute of it? Gimme some wins. Lets start cultivating a winning attitude and developping our players better and installing a system, instead of constantly turning over the roster. These guys need to play together.

    • Suspisious Mind

      Amen!!

    • Ian Reynolds

      Confirmation Bias, but okay.

    • ac1011990

      Lolz you can pick from the D league if you dont like the draft

      • johng_3

        He prefers players like Jamario Moon as his starter

    • johng_3

      No the draft works to allow GMs to pick who they want. It is up to the GM to do a good job. You just brought up a bunch of busts for some reason. This draft has the most talent that it has in years

      • Hound

        The reason is that every draft has busts. It is not an exact science and isn’t a sure fire way to get a championship. Sacramento has picked high for years and they will again, so has Charlotte, so has Washington. So did Golden State and finally they are a .500 team. The point is that we could easily tank, pick 2nd overall, get Jabari Parker and find out that he gets us to 30 wins next year, instead of the 35 we would otherwise get. All the while San Antonio picks some guy named Jusuf Nurkic and coach him into the next Tim Duncan. Without a crystal ball, it is hard to tell what will happen. The only thing tanking guarantees is a bad team this year and next year.

        • ac1011990

          Or Jabari could turn out like the next Carmelo or Durant and help this exact same team. We are letting potential superstars to for what exactly? Do you really believe that we can do anything meaningful in the playsoffs?

          • Hound

            By your logic, at least 20 teams in the league should get rid of their decent players and try to tank. Is that what you are saying? Everyone in the east other than Miami and Indiana should tank?

            • ac1011990

              Big market teams obviously dont need the draft as much as small market ones. Many teams have already started to accumulate draft picks and young talent. Some teams are just plain messed up, that’s why no one watches (Bucks), some dont want to rebuild and continue on the same path for multiple years (Hawks, Raptors). NBA is not like the other leagues, the underdogs dont win, they get crushed by bigger teams, only way out is to get impact players and thats through the draft.

          • Jerry Garcia

            We could be there

            • ac1011990

              Ok keep hoping.

          • Louvens Remy

            What the hell has Melo done exactly, except for score?

            • AB4EYE

              Its not his fault who’s he’s been surrounded with. He has the 12th best PPG in NBA history

              • Louvens Remy

                He had it fairly good in Denver. He chose to leave and got traded to NY. The Knicks had to give up a lot to get him so think I’d blame him. He asked and he received. It’s because of him that a lot of personnel decisions shook down this way. Would u rather have the Raptors roster going fwd or the Knicks w their superstar?

                • AB4EYE

                  He was in Denver for 7 years and won 2 series, he won one in 3 years with NY. If Amar’e didn’t fall off the face of the planet they would be one of the best teams in the East right with Miami and Indy.

                  That contract is the only reason I wouldn’t want NY’s roster, if that vanished they could sign anyone they wanted and be great. Them at 100% would probably beat us in a 7 game series, they aren’t that many games back without Chandler most of the season.

                • Louvens Remy

                  Don’t get me started on that smoke and mirrors team. I say we beat them in 7. Also, winning a couple series doesn’t = rings. Melo is one dimensional who’s career will mirror that of Adrian Dantley, who failed to mesh w a young up and coming pistons team bc he needed the ball all the time. Melo will win a ring when He gets traded to a contender near the end of his career and provide a scoring punch off the bench.

                • AB4EYE

                  That one dimension he’s elite he can’t control who he plays with and against.

                  If Amar’e wasn’t broke down the beat the Pacers last year and play the Heat in the east finals. Melo had 28.5 and 7.8 boards a game in that series and but had no help with the teams second leading scorer in the series was JR smith and he shot less than 30%.

              • ac1011990

                Oh my god he provided his teams with entertaining winning basketball for most of his career, Didnt the Knicks win like 54 games last year. You people get so excited when talking about a potential .500 season and then say what has Carmelo done, Id love to see the raptors be a contender like the knicks were last year. nobody is saying that after the draft we expect to become the next Miami heat, we just want to watch a team that get get more than half of our games.

        • johng_3

          I’m not saying it is a sure fire way to a championship. It is the best way for this franchise right now. There are potential stars in this draft for the future. We all know this is not a team sustainable for the long run built around Val and Demar. Nobody is coming to Toronto. You have to draft them instead. This was a good win but look, OKC was playing off a back to back. So I have to put this win into some perspective

      • ScottSegal

        I don’t think many of these “anti tank” posters are aware how stocked this draft is.Franchises will be set for a decade from this draft , it’s a rare group of franchise players.

    • AB4EYE

      LOL I would trade our first round pick right now for some of the names you have on this list especially if we paid them the rookie contract money.

      • Hound

        The question is would have you traded the #2 pick in 08 for the Michael Beasley that plays now? or the #3 pick for the OJ Mayo that plays now? Yes, some of these are good players, but none of them are messiahs. All the players mentioned in this GREAT draft will probably be good players eventually, however 2 that may go 1-2 in the upcoming draft are only winning 50% of their games against good teams in college and these guys are going to bring Toronto a championship, or at least make us way better? In the draft, hope springs eternal. But the reality is something totally different.

        • AB4EYE

          If you can get him off pot I would take Michael Beasley right now when his mind is right to be on the floor he’s good. Mayo was good with Memphis until the put him on the bench after they loaded up the starting 5. In the 3 years he’s been a starter in this league he’s play all 82 games all 3 times scoring between 18.5-15.3 and could start here.

          Someone like Mike Conley on this list would be our best player.

          • onemanweave

            Would Mike Conley guarantee that title you guys need to have?

            • AB4EYE

              No but he and JV would be a hell of a start

  • Keepup

    Tim W. and other tank-meisters must be hating these wins. At what point do the Raptors start to think that Lowry might be a top 10-15 PG and consider trying to sign him long-term? If they trade him or cut him loose in the off-season they might spend another 5-10 years trying to find a decent PG. Amir and JV sometimes look like they could be a front-court for a very good team.

  • HogyG

    What an exciting game and a great win by the Raptors! This contest was not for the faint of heart, a definite nail biter down to the end. Lord knows KD can knock down those come back threes as good as anyone ever. Good on the team for not giving up in the third when OKC tried to send us off to bed without supper. Too bad that all the tank/anti tank bullshit had to break out here like always, instead of it breaking out into a love-fest for The Raptors who deserved it tonight for this big win against a championship contender who gave it their all to upset the outcome!

    Regardless of what side of the fence you sit on, everyone should give that tank shit a rest and enjoy an inspired victory in a game we all expected to lose.

    Thank you to the Raptors organization for giving me something tonight to be thankful for again, keep up the hard work.

  • Louvens Remy

    What a great game. I agree with Hogy. Lets celebrate the Raps when they win and tear em up when they lose. The Tankini talk is dry. I like wins.

  • AB4EYE

    I would give anything to know what Ujiri honestly thinks about these wins. The fact he moved Gay so fast without getting any long term assets and had talks about moving every on the roster leads me to believe he would be quite pissed about it.

    It will be interesting to see if they price tag for Kyle drops between now next weekends back-to-back with NY knowing if they sweep them he very well could bury them and the Nets and kill his trade market totally.

    • johng_3

      These incoming moves will decide where this franchise is moving. Tough job for Masai

  • Edgar

    I’d say Ross had a good game and needs a C or a B – he had Durant sputtering offensively which is amazing when you consider it should have been a complete mismatch in OKC’s favor. Ross is giving up 4+ inches and strength and Durant is literally the best in the league at punishing rookie mistakes like reaching. Ross gave us everything defensively that we beg for every night. You could his grades with Hansbrough since I saw him put in his place as a smaller less skilled version of Steven Adams. Can’t believe he started over Amir even once.

    • AB4EYE

      Hansbrough is an undersized PF who our dumb coach has playing as a center, and on top of playing our of position he’s cut his PT nearly in half. He was the 6th man on a team who should have beat Miami last year and when he was getting time here he was one of our best players each night and was playing better than Amir.

      Once we got the Sac town boys Tyler went from DC’s favorite player to last guy in the raotion and its killed any shot of getting an asset back for him and we will end up giving him away as filler in another move.

      • NewGuy

        For sure, after the trade, the Raptors have a surplus of “servicable” bodies. I think Novak, Tyler, and others have some value and can contribute. The good thing about the trade is that it gave us alot of depth (at least bench depth). Casey is using these resources as he sees best. It will be up the the GM to convert these “assets” to something that can contribute more on the floor. It’s an interesting dilemma from both a coach and a GM perspective about playing time for wins, for increasing perceived value, and for growth…. not an easy balance….

  • onemanweave

    Two hundred comments and none by Tim, Yert or Flux. It must be cold under that bridge guys. Come on out and enjoy a couple wins over very good teams. We’re all in this together.

    • 2damkule

      like i said the other day (i think it was in a comment to a post by blake), i go into each game wanting them to win, even though i’m firmly pro-tank, and still am. i have as much pride (whatever that’s worth; natch: nothing) in calling myself a raptor fan as anyone else, so yeah, i like to feel as chesty as they next guy when thy beat a truly elite team, on the road no less.

      i am, however, more interested in HOW they go about those wins (when they do come); if it happens as a result of players seeing significant court time & making contributions that are actually part of the future, then i’m all for it…even though i still believe that they are better off losing now. maybe that makes me a fence-sitter in the eyes of some, and that’s fine. i’ll enjoy these wins as much as the next guy, but that doesn’t change anything, at least not right now. i still don’t think they are good enough with this core to truly compete…even if i hope i’m wrong.

      note: i’m traveling over the holidays, and have been killing myself trying to get a bunch of shit done, so haven’t had a chance to comment until i got into work this morning. i’m not about to disappear, don’t worry.

      • onemanweave

        Good. You make some interesting points. Don’t always agree, but once in a long while — I’m wrong. LOL.This could play out a number of ways. Would like to see KL extended if it can be worked out. However, it all depends on what’s being offered and that’s the part none of us know. Merry Christmas.

  • Kujo2020

    Lowry’s trade value is at all-time high right now. We should get a first round pick for him. Not liking Salmons, who won’t be back next year, taking minutes from Ross, but Ross needs to play better.

    This was the Raps best win of the year, though we benefited from OKC having played the night before, and Durant & Westbrook were mostly off last night.

  • why

    Could the reason for the post Gay trade success be simply be that it eliminated a redundancy (gay/demar) and gave the team much needed depth? Pre gay trade Hansbrough was the only player who you could really count on off the bench – if we never see Fields, Novak, or Stone again in meaningful minutes that is fine with me.

  • AB4EYE

    NBA Champions since 2000 with Finals starting 5 and where they were picked.

    2000
    13th Bryant
    1st O’Neal
    4th Rice
    8th Harper
    23rd Green

    2001
    13th Bryant
    1st O’Neal
    24th Fisher
    24th Fox
    10th Grant

    2002
    13th Bryant
    1st O’Neal
    24th Fisher
    24th Fox
    11th Horry

    2003
    1st Duncan
    28th Parker
    1st Robinson
    42nd Jackson
    UD Bowen

    2004
    7th Hamilton
    3rd Billups
    4th R Wallace
    UD B Wallace
    23rd Prince

    2005
    1st Duncan
    28th Parker
    57th Ginobili
    11th Horry
    UD Bowen

    2006
    5th Wade
    6th Walker
    1st O’Neal
    7th Williams
    UD Haslem

    2007
    1st Duncan
    28th Parker
    UD Bowen
    UD Oberto
    21st Finley

    2008
    10th Pierce
    5th Allen
    5th Garnett
    21st Rondo
    27th Perkins

    2009
    13th Bryant
    3rd Gasol
    43rd Ariza
    24th Fisher
    10th Bynum

    2010
    13th Bryant
    3rd Gasol
    16th World Peace
    24th Fisher
    10th Bynum

    2011
    9th Nowitzki
    2nd Chandler
    2nd Kidd
    9th Marion
    UD Barea and 23rd Stevenson 3 starts each

    2012
    1st James
    5th Wade
    4th Bosh
    6th Battier
    34th Chalmers

    2013
    1st James
    5th Wade
    4th Bosh
    34th Chalmers
    5th Miller 4 games and Haslem UD for 3.

  • Alex Vostrikov

    drafting high is great. problem is, if you under coach players, it doesn’t mater who you take and when. spurs are great not because of the drafting, but because they have “system in place”. players do not do more than they asked. if they do, they don’t play.
    spurs load themselves with character players. they never have the best scorer, or rebounder, or passes. they have players who listen to coach. pop is great at convincing players to do this much.
    of coarse its great to have james and wade on the team. but do you really think these two would play team ball in their yearly years? no chance. its pretty much what can happen with any high draft pick this year.
    its great to see raps play as a team. no one trying to take the game in their hands. everyone gets his share of touches.
    you bring in great coach, and you will have a better team for sure.

    • johng_3

      It does help too that they have the greatest PF of all-time drafted #1 paired with a HOF center at the time. Don’t forget to mention that

  • Alex Vostrikov

    ps

    drafting high is not a solution for most of nba teams.

    when you have “potential star” addition every year (charlotte, wash, cleveland and etc.), teams tend to change the way they play, to accommodate the new players.

    I don’t think DD and Amir should be let go for any one. same with lowry, if he had contract in place. they look like they have fun playing here, and you should keep it this way.

    if someone dreams for raps to win a championship, keep dreaming. nba is a big corporation, and teams being as tools to make money. its not about the owners, and how much money they have. its entertainment, and there is a food chain like in every business. we are another 3% of their market.

    there is simply no need in championship in Toronto… never.

    • johng_3

      So if a player like Wiggins, Parker, Exum etc. came in, you think the coaches would have a hard time accommodating them to this team. They would be thanking them for coming. Your reason to keep these guys around is because they have fun? They would leave because they wouldn’t be winning. Basically you are happy with watching us lose for the next 10-15 years and maybe having a first round exit.

      • Alex Vostrikov

        that’s exactly what we been doing for 15 years… watch the team loose.
        I know its always better to lie to yourself when things don’t go the way we want it. but your delusional if you think competition would share profits, have drafts, and etc.
        just to remind you, drafts present only in north America. fixed leagues are only in north America. in any other country and league, you sign players when they are available. you “breed” players in youth systems and etc. and if you have a loosing season, you simply go down division.
        if I would be owner of lets say lakers… and I have a winning profitable franchise year in and out…. why would I wanna share my profit and success with bucks, or charlotte or who ever. I wanna keep everything to myself.
        open your eys buddy. by the way… I enjoy watching NBA and etc. but there is no real competition here. big market always wins. small markets get a bone from big teams.

  • Louvens Remy

    Why can’t the Raps trade Novak, Hansbrough and other serviceable parts for assets? Why do they HAVE to trade DD and all their good players to get draft positioning and young talent? There are teams that will be needing those players and may pay a little more for them if they think its a piece that is needed to get them over the top.
    There’s a few different ways to skin a cat folks.