OK, picture a situation where we re-sign Kyle Lowry, execute some other transactions, and are in a position where only one of Patterson or Vasquez can be brought back.  Who would you pick and why? You can vote in the poll, but do add a comment stating your case as well. Vasquez’s qualifying offer is $3.2M (stats) and Patterson is at $4.3M (stats).

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  • Maputo88

    I chose Patrick Patterson because he is still developing and could actually replace Amir as a starter. I think our 3 bigs are excellent and would like to add a 4th – perhaps Jarnell Stokes? Also I like Nando de Colo, he is also developing. I don’t care much for GV’s game, he is too slow

    • SR

      Same. GV had a bigger impact this season, but the future’s a bit brighter for PP. He’s got all the tools to become a better player and his ceiling is definitely to push for a starter’s spot. GV will always be a great back-up, in my opinion, but would only start on a team lacking PG talent.

  • Andrew

    As much as I love Greivis, it has to be Patterson. A PF that can stretch the floor, rebound, and switch out onto smaller players like he can don’t come cheaply. Amir is literally falling apart, can’t stay healthy, and nobody wants to see extended minutes for Chuck Hayes. Its bad optics letting Vasquez walk with how he’s vouched for the city and pounded his chest about the people and the locker room, but Masai has to look elsewhere for a cheaper alternative.

    • Phil

      In this league one of the hardest things to have is a solid back up pg, everything starts with your pg either on d or on o. The drop off from your starting 5 to you bench is effected the most by your back up pg. Not to mention having a pg that can step into the starting role if our main pg gets hurt which ours is prone to. I do like 2pat but he doesn’t have the same affect on the game as the general, and he’s too much of a clone of Amir. My figures are crossed for Greg Monroe or Deng to join with Amir as the first big off the bench.

  • Homph Gomph

    I’m very much a personality guy, and not that 2Pat doesn’t seem like a cool dude, but Greivis just seems like such a positive person to be around, also he brings a different dynamic off the bench and as long as he can keep improving his longball, he a great backup ball handler to have.

  • Kevin

    I went with Vasquez in the poll but it all depends on the draft. If Payne is around at 20, you could pick him and he could fill the stretch 4 role that Patterson plays. At 20, it’ll be challenging to find a backup PG of Vasquez’s calibre who can step in next year with the same impact of Vasquez. I’d be shocked if both aren’t re-signed though and then a big, defensive wing player like Jerami Grant of K.J. McDaniels be drafted.

  • c_bcm

    Hard choice, and not a realistic one to ever have to make (since both are gettable). But, I said 2Pat. A real stretch 4, with real 3 point range is valuable. Athleticism to guard bigger 3’s (like Pierce) is also quite valuable.

    • asifyouknow

      Rumors are 5 mill for a decent backup-guard specially one that can play SG and some SF… Felton was told he will be treaded…..Phil likes Kyle and also needs a back up, the Vazquez /Kyle partnership is already a well known NBA commodity….They could offer stupid money for both,,,,

      • Saskatoon Raps Fan

        The Knicks could probably use an exception to sign Vazquez, but no way they ever come up with the cap space to sign Lowry

  • TheSpiceTyrant

    2Pats basketball IQ seems very high for a guy his age. He is soo selfless. I’m hoping he becomes our Ibaka-light.

    GV is fearless and I love the guy, but sometime he plays hero ball.

    • asifyouknow

      I don’t agree but I do hope he goes somewhere else with a progressive offensive coach. Somehow Casey thinks he is going to win championships with scores 60 to 49…lol….Should try to get Rondo,, Kyle is gone my friend..rumors are flying at 12 to 15 mill …Toronto is not going to pay that …

  • vino

    Patterson! He’s got a higher ceiling. Vasquez is near his peak already and it is generally easier to replace a second PG than find a quality big. By the way, all this recent talk about Vasquez helping us lure KD to Toronto is nonsense! Oh.. and so is this other bull about “oh, but he loves the city…” and “he’s got great personality” crap. Love and personality don’t win games.

    • asifyouknow

      You have no clue of what you talking about coach Vino …get back to you bottle and forget commenting on things you know nothing about…lol…How is the curling team doing?

      • vino

        I generally don’t get into personal stuff and since your comment had zero ball content I’ll just leave it at that.

        • asifyouknow

          You know what. Lol. Means. ..enough said. Did not know u were so sensative…my apologies…

  • IanStan

    It’s a hard decision to make because of how well these two worked off the bench in the playoffs. Patterson was a revelation, he took on tough assignments, particularly defensively on guys like Pierce. But having a trustworthy guard off-the-bench who can handle the rock is a necessity. It’s a guard driven league, I think you have to go with the guard. Not to mention, GV is automatically more valuable based on the “Durant Factor,” however unlikely that may be. I think that carries weight with Masai’s decision.

  • Thomas Smith

    A team can get by with a injured starting PF much harder to do with a injured starting PG. A competent, although slow, backup PG that can fill in as a starter is a great asset.

  • I voted for Vasquez because I’m guessing he’ll have less teams bidding on him and therefore will come back cheaper. Plus we all know how much he loves the city and it is hard to let that go. If it was a straight “who helps the team more?” with no question of contracts, I’d probably just barely switch it to 2Pat.

  • Chef

    This is a very tough call. I went with Vazquez because I ultimately see this teams growth coming from eventually upgrading our starting pf spot in a year or two, and Amir moving back to the role of third big. Amir is too valuable, and too passionate about TO to let go. Again, I fully support bringing both these guys back on reasonable 4-year contracts.

  • Mark R

    This is incredibly difficult. They both bring things we need (barring other changes). I’d go with Patterson since we need more in the frontcourt.

  • jjdynomite

    Right now GV at 51%, PP at 49%. And this is why the draft is held BEFORE free agency period begins.

  • Tinmann

    Patterson fills the more difficult position and he auditioned perfectly for the role last season. That’s why I’d go with him.
    A solid back-up PG can be found, look at how DJ Augustine came through for the Bulls.
    A tough call though, Vasquez shows flashes and definitely brings a good attitude. He fit in good on the floor with Lowry as well.
    Tough call, but Patterson fills the tougher role

  • Raptors4Life

    Vazquez is our guy!!for sure!love patterson but we have amir..Vazquez brings so much to our team as THE BEST backup point guard in the league!@!!Hands down and his heart is here in toronto..For all the players whom have played here he actually doesnt want to go and at 6foot 5 or 6foot 6 as a point or u play him along side lowry.. my good the best backcourt in the league!!hes not the fastest guy but he has something about his game were he is very crafty and he can make plays!HEY he led the league is assists not to long ago!!I luv the guy!!i love lowry even more!But hopefully both sign and cont… were we left off!!and pay upfor a PF like monroe!!!comon MLSE pay the $ and if u go over cap than pay the luxary!!dont know if people realize how much the organization really has!!$ is no object believe me!!Pay Lowry what he is worth… top $ and splerge on URFA in patterson and we are good to go!LETS GO RAPTORS!!!!!

  • mountio

    This is actually much tougher than I thought it would be (the the poll proves that out). Going into the playoffs, I would have said 2Pat by a country mile. But, Greasy really showed me something in the playoffs, as he was really the only Raptor that consistently beat the double thing and did something positive going to the hoop (as opposed to just a ball reversal). Hes fearless and was actually ok on D vs the Nets. And, he hit outside shots.
    BUT – having said all that, 2Pat still has to be the choice. He just brings many more positive things – shooting, little post up game, alright defender. Hes a great change of pace and could be a starter easily in the league. He doesnt really hurt you anywhere.
    Greasy will always be fearless .. so thats great. I think his 3 pt shooting was an aberration .. given his stroke, that has to come back to life. As others have said on here, Im more than happy with Greasy as our backup PG. But, is he a must have? No he isnt.
    In addition, if this team is ever going to take things to the next level, we need to find other players that can beat a double at the 3 pt line on the pick n roll and do something positive. So, Im assuming someone (whether current player or not) will take that role and thus Greasy wont seem like such a breath of fresh air on offense.

  • asifyouknow

    In his best NBA year with New Orleans Vasquez averaged 14 pts and 9 assists per game. He was the NBA’s assist leader and shot around 43% .

    That performance was done on a bad wheel for most of that season, he had bone spurs on his foot. I never had them, but I understand they are very painful, with all that he still made through the season.

    He had surgery last summer, so Vasquez had zero off season work, he came into the Kings camp unable to go full speed. His stated plan was to work himself into full game mode around mid-season. The plan worked. We can all agree he was a different player after the all-star game.

    When he came to Toronto Vaz’s game was about 70% (in my opinion) he was shooting terribly and was pounded by many of you (deservingly, because he sucked) The reason I was strongly defending him in the early part of his Toronto stay was because I knew that was not the player I know. There was more to come, of course it did work out at the end.

    Now let me say something that’s going to make you think I’m a crazed Vasquez fan. I’m going to take my Vaz fan hood hat off and give you an opinion from a basketball fan prospective.

    Who ever gets Vasquez next year will get a healthy, in shape guy. He will show up to camp ready to go.

    I still believe his game was about 90% at end of the season. I’m basing that on the runner, folks he just does not miss many of them, those are automatic, I believe he was missing most of them become he couldn’t push hard to get up or was trying not to jump as high to avoid a hard landing . (just my opinion)

    If you replay some games look at him on the bench, he is still wrapping his foot. So there was a bit of an issue there.

    Point is someone will be getting a better Vaz version than last year. He will score and rebound, have a better shooting % and will be in better sync with Amir, if JV can get a better grip on the ball and is better able to chew gum and walk at the same time this could be a scary pick and roll combo.

    I love Toronto fans, they are the best, as a Spurs fan I was amazed how much more you all were into the games than San Antonio.

    I think Vaz is once again in the wrong place because of the coach. I know DC said he loves Vaz but this is not his guy, Casey wants a strict defensive player, Vaz is an offensive improviser, that is not Casey’s game , hell he doesn’t even like the no-look pass, that came right from Casey’s mouth, when is the last time you’ve seen an alley oop, that play was a part of the offense with Davis, Lopez and Vasquez in New Orleans in every game.

    In my humble opinion the reason you lost the last two games was because of Casey’s delusion that he was going to hold the Nets to a low shooting percentage and not concentrating in being an aggressive offense. SPECIALLY in the seventh game where he just about fouled out everybody because of his on your face defense.

    I guess you figured out I’m not a Casey fan. Just because the name is the Raptors does not mean the coach has to have a prehistoric game.

    Just and opinion.

    • mountio

      Well said (especially the Casey part). As I noted below, Greasy grew on me A LOT towards the end of the season. To win basketball games, you have to be aggressive and have the confidence to make hoops. Right now, only KL and GV really fit into this bucket. The rest of the guys still shade more passive than aggressive. Before the playoffs, I would have taken or leaven Greasy, but now I want him back for sure. I hope you are right about his injuries.
      As a guy who has watched him a lot, do you think his 3 pt shooting was better/worse/about right vs his career? It seems to me he doesnt have a great shot, but to his credit, he seemed to hit a lot of them. I wonder if it was just a prolonged hot streak or whether he has some Shawn Marion in him (ie his shot will never look great, but he will make a decent %age)?

      • asifyouknow

        The foot problem is well documented in the Pelicans/Hornets media…
        About the shooting, he went about a month with 58% from three, we all know that is not normal for anybody…lol.. after the all-star game it was 38% from there…
        Speaking of shooting here are some stats POST the all-star game. I’ll let you guys make the conclusions:

        Kyle: 36% from three and 41% overall shooting

        DeMar: 26% from three and 42% overall shooting

        Vasquez: 44% from three and 46% overall shooting

        Those are the stats and even though some folks might interpret those stats to fit their believes we can agree that 1+1 = 2 in China, USA or Canada. Stats don’t lie, they are an exact science.
        A healthy Vasquez was the best shooter in the team post All-Star game.

        Here is what really pissed me off about Casey . Vaz had 3 shots in the biggest game of the year….. your best shooter gets 3 shots, DeMar would not kick it out, I believe that was Casey orders to have DeMar drive, drive and drive and forget about kicking out to the open 3.

        Casey is just an old basketball guy. They shot 12 or 13 threes in game 7 vs Nets. The more I get into the stats of game seven the more this coach pisses me off.

        with those stats you think Vaz should be averaging 18 points, well if he gets 15 shots he will get 15 to 26 points that is the 4 year history, once again that is if stats is a true science.

        My hope as a fan is that he will get an offer from an offensive minded coach, Vaz is 27 years old his next five years is all he has to make an impact, he will not with this coach. as much as he loves Toronto that is not the best place for him to have a great NBA career .

        Again just a fans opinion.

    • HQ

      Add on the fact that he’s in love with the city and the team. Keeper in my eyes.

    • webfeat

      Also, GV was our most solid player in the playoffs. He seemed to be thriving in the heat of the pressure. You want at least one guy like that on your team for when the shit hits the fan.

  • gizzly73

    GV has lots and lots of heart. PP not so sure about. GV is a leader. PP not so sure about. Point guards more valuable than pforwards. GV has lots of personality on and off the floor PP not so sure about. Go with the sure thing!

  • dog

    I’m a GV fan since long time ago. But the raptors need PP mora than GV, why?, simply because Amir needs a solid replacement, The Reps will sign back Klow and finally, I would like to see GV playing start point guard for an offensive minded coach and not for Casey. GV loves Toronto and win games too that’s more than clear, but he’s looking to keep improving and eventually be the starter PG again. GV is a great PRO and will achieve what he’s looking for, but unfortunately not playing for Casey.

  • Andrew Shin

    I love GV and his personality as well as his fearlessness in the playoffs (aside from game 7), but I think PPat is the one to keep because his position is harder to fill. It looks like it’s easier to replace GV through a developing Nando or the draft (I seem to like the PGs available there) than replacing a big who can rebound and hit mid range jumpers like PPat. But who knows what’s available when it’s our turn to pick. I’m just glad free agency is after the draft.

  • noam

    Patrick is truly a rare talent and replacing Vasquez would be a much easier job, even though I would like it best if both stayed. Also the Raptors have noticeably better talent at the guard position and need Patterson’s help inside along with his jump shot.

  • johng_3

    A guy who plays both ends of the floor and one who doesn’t. I have to go with 2Pat. And look, 2Pat would have been even more effective offensively in the playoffs had it not been for that elbow injury

  • webfeat

    I honestly couldn’t choose. I want both back equally.

  • Stef 511

    Difficult, so a good topic. Would like to keep both .. but, if I had to choose, I’ve gotta go with Patrick Patterson. I didn’t like Vasquez early on — thought he had one foot in the D League — but, he definitely grew on me. Thing is tho, I don’t get what many are saying about Vasquez doing so much in the playoffs. I thought, overall, he took a half-step back. And in game seven, a full step back, maybe more. He didn’t come through in the crunch .. and it’s not that I wouldn’t give him another shot at that, but if I had to go with one or the other from here-on-in, I’m going with Patterson. A couple years younger than Vasquez with what-looks-to-me a better balance in his game; a strong 4 who can shoot well and will likely get better at that (I think) and defends and gets rebounds .. just more fundamentally sound, to my eyes. And a quiet intelligence that – I believe – will translate to better-and-better play as he continues to grow in this league.

    It’s not a landslide for me because Vasquez can and will win you some games singlehandedly but .. he’s a bit nutty. Not necessarily in a bad way (at least, all the time .. cuz if you’re gonna be nutty, you better not let it cost you games .. and I can’t imagine that won’t be the case with GV at times) but in the end, it almost comes down to a question I sometimes ask myself at moments like this, which is: who would Pops choose and who could he make better use of? That might not be crystal-clear either but .. I’d guess he’d choose Patterson and that he’d be able to do more with him. So, PatPat.

    • asifyouknow

      Whatch the replay and thank casey for that……casey game plan did not involve vaz except to take the ball pass half court and handed off to k or D that was the whole Plan becouse as you know casey realy belived he was going to keep the nets at. Around 30 something % and of couse the Raptors rewarded him with three more years.
      Here a question…how many offensive minded players will want to come to Toronto to play for casey?

      Look Ross has no bussines being an nba starter he gives up too much size and is not as good of a shooter as you all think he is, he plays becouse he can play some defense.
      Heck Casey may end up with 5 Ross typens on the floor and try to win games like.in college , you know 57-45…well good luck with that Mr. Casey…lol

      • nbafan

        That’s not true at all. I’ve watched that last game I think you’re talking about, more than once. Vasquez was tight. No fault for that, but he didn’t play what we know as his normal game. Nothing to do with Casey.

        • asifyouknow

          Good for Casey! He has a good friend in you, he will need lots of you next year..lol

        • asifyouknow

          As much as i critic Casey facts are he was a winning coach this season ..cant take that away from him but i still dont like his style…..

  • Saskatoon Raps Fan

    Too hard to call. I want both. If the raps managed to draft Payne then I’d be more comfortable letting 2pat go and keeping GV, and vice versa if the raps could move up for ennis. Although personally I hope we keep both and draft CleAnthony early.

  • Raymond

    I will say PP is better than GV, but I will pick GV at this case.

    Reason: I believe KL, DD, TR, and JV is our future. Also, we all know that Amir and PP, good role player but not good enough to dominate the PF position. Raptors need an upgrade on PF and it will force either Amir or PP to the second unit, and one of the other person will become odd under the salary cap issued.

  • truuth

    vasquez hands down nigger.

    • katmore9

      WTF?! “nigger”? What kind of racist bullsh-t is that?

  • Mexiballer

    Patterson for sure. He is consistent and you know what you are going to get every night. I still dont know what we are going to get from GV game to game, half to half, possession to possession. Grieves has listened to the coaching staff and started to clean up his game. But Patterson is as solid as they come. And I do believe he can only get better especially with his returning health, and his first full training camp in a Raptors uniform. Patterson can be part of a solid foundation and future for this team.

    • asifyouknow

      About the shooting, he went about a month with 58% from three, we all know that is not normal for anybody…lol.. after the all-star game it was 38% from there…
      Speaking of shooting here are some stats POST the all-star game. I’ll let you guys make the conclusions:

      Kyle: 36% from three and 41% overall shooting

      DeMar: 26% from three and 42% overall shooting

      Vasquez: 44% from three and 46% overall shooting

      Those are the stats and even though some folks might interpret those stats to fit their believes we can agree that 1+1 = 2 in China, USA or Canada. Stats don’t lie, they are an exact science.
      A healthy Vasquez was the best shooter in the team post All-Star game.


      • Mexiballer

        I wasn’t referring to shooting consistency.

        • asifyouknow

          Good point lets talk about that ….the difference is that kyle and DeMar can start the game 1-5 up to o-7 as they have a million times and just keep on shooting …coach can not say much those are the core of the team ..when Vaz misses a few he shuts him down and i understand he is not a started, point is when vaz can get 15 shot he as good of a scorer as theose two ..look at the games he started or had to play becouse. Kyle was a bit banged. Up.

      • Guest

        You can copy and paste the same post over and over, and it doesn’t make what you type any more credible. This is coming from someone who actually likes Vasquez, by the way. So what’s wrong?

        “Stats don’t lie, they are an exact science.”

        I’m a stat nerd and this is hogwash. If you’re using the statistics to describe what happened in the past, then sure, it can describe it accurately, albeit it can be bent to support one argument or another depending on the sample used. As for projecting what will continue to happen? Far from an exact science.

        Then you argue from BOTH sides of the pulpit, citing Patterson’s inflated month as unsustainable, while citing Vasquez’s post-break stats (only 30 games) as if it possessed undeniable truth. In the same vein, Vasquez went a month with 56.5% from three, so practice what you preach. More importantly, yes, Vazquez performed well after the break, but even his 46/44 split is significantly higher than 1) his career average of 42.7/34.5, and 2) the 43.3/34.2 split in his BEST season with New Orleans.

        You are the perfect proof that stats are only reliable as to the sample being described.

        • asifyouknow

          Something is crossed here ..I was talking about Vaz ..I said nothing about Patterson…

  • morganc

    I want both, for sure. But if I had to pick one, as I did with my vote, it’s gotta be GV. This is all about need. PP might be the better actual player; he’d sure command the higher salary. But we have two solid bigs in AJ and JV. We may draft a guy like Adreian Payne who can be a stretch four anyway.

    But after KL, we don’t have another guy to run the offense. That makes Vasquez a necessity, unless we can sign another solid fringe starter combo guard (unlikely). He has the size to defend shooting guards, even if he lacks the athleticism. And he is a capable ball-handler. Basically, I’m saying it’s more important to have a good back-up guard, than it is a back-up big.

    But please re-sign both!

  • ShadowXL

    If I can only take one, it would be Patman.. I love both players, but it’s harder to find a solid stretch-4. And with PGs available in the open market, it would be easier to replace Vasquez. But that said, I want both back in a Raptors uni

    • asifyouknow

      I agree

  • TheR3dMenace

    Both will be back. I don’t think the RFA offers are going to be cost prohibitive at all. These are valuable guys, and they’ll get paid, for sure. But I have a feeling what they’ll get will be a fair price for the return they both provide. Say Patterson gets an offer in the range of 6-7/per and Vasquez 5-6/per. Both of those are on the high side, but realistically it’s a fair price for what these guys will give over the coming years, and it wouldn’t be something to freak out about. Field’s expiring more than makes up for any perceived overpayment. Roster continuity is a good thing

  • StrikerAI

    Patrick Patterson. Vasquez has been surprisingly good offensively, atleast to me, but defensively, he can’t guard a pylon. The only tough choice is Vasquez was a highschool teammate of KD, so Vasquez could have a contribution if we ever lure him here. Patterson on the other hand is a big that can shoot, score in the paint, rebound at a decent rate and a decent defender, plus he is still young and has room for improvement, and well Amir is somewhat injury prone, so we need someone that can fill in for him.

  • Jensan

    I think a better question is what to do you extend Vasquez for 3/12 and PP 4/16. You can keep both, you can trade Salmons and Hansborough plus Fields plus a pick and get Lee of Golden State and Harrison Barnes- Golden State saves 10 million this year plus 18 million next year. Than has the money to sign Love in 2015.
    Than both young guys are signed and your big men are JV, David Lee, Amir Johnson ,Patrick Patterson and one year more of Chucky Hayes. Therefore your starting 4 Big Men and Chucky are 36 million. Lowry, DD, TRoss, HBarnes Vasquez total 29 million. Novak is 3.5 million plus your 1st and 2nd round picks totaling 2 million and .65 for Camby attribution.
    Almost 71 million spent. You have 9 starting players with Novak and Chuck Hayes as filler. Draft a SF or a best PF and than draft Nick Johnson as your #3 P/G and defensive stopper.
    If Lowry walks, pay Mario Chalmers 6 million, because the Heat wont resign him or Bledsoe for 10 million.