Lets wager on him making the all star game...
Lets wager how many double rebound games he has this season,shooting pct....
Lets wager him comparatively to his contemporaries...
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Lets wager on him making the all star game...
Lets wager how many double rebound games he has this season,shooting pct....
Lets wager him comparatively to his contemporaries...
Challenge... name a current center with more offensive talent than Andrea Bargnani.
Not so easy is it?
3 centers in the past 10 years have averaged 20+ points in at least one season: Shaquille O'Neal, Yao Ming, and Dwight Howard. (6 if you also include Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, and Tim Duncan, who have played both PF and C at times.)
AB has a great shot at 20+ this year, and I don't think that's debatable. Why then are we so quick to shoot down the notion that he may in fact be a top 10 center, and a potential all-star at that? Is it just because of his rebounding statistics? If he had 20 and 9 instead of 20 and 5, would it make that much of a difference? (I'm actually really curious about this.)
Seems like a lot of people look straight past the things that he can do and fixate on the things he can't. I would argue that, among centers, Andrea is the best 3-point shooter and shot creator in the league, and probably top 5 in almost every other offensive category.
Yes, his rebounding stinks, and his defence isn't spectacular, but so be it. Every player has their weaknesses. It just so happens that most of the time it's the offensive side of the game that 7-footers have trouble with. Maybe that's why there's always so much hoopla around Andrea... he's different.
Just because he doesn't grab 8 rebounds a game and actually makes his free throws, it doesn't automatically make him a subpar center.
In my opinion, there are only 4-5 centers that are clearly better overall players:
Dwight Howard, Pau Gasol (inteirm C), Joakim Noah, Al Horford, and maybe Roy Hibbert.
In the same class as Bargnani:
Al Jefferson, Andrew Bynum, Chris Kaman, Brook Lopez, Andrew Bogut.
That puts him as high as 5th or as low as 11th, placing him relatively safely inside my Top 10.
Well, first of all his rebounding does stink, as does his defence. "Isn't spectacular" would be a massive improvement. And there's a difference between a weakness and a liability. Bargnani has two great big ones.Quote:
jrdyck wrote:
Bynum (when healthy), Bogut and Lopez are light years ahead of Bargnani. They can get you 20 points on any given night, grab 10 boards, but also make a difference on the defensive end.
Kaman averaged more ppg last year than Bargnani (he's recovering from injury, this year) AND grabbed 9.3 rebounds per game. He's not a good defender, but he's also not a liability on that end like Bargnani is.
Al Jefferson is probably one of the best low post players in the game, and before his injury, averaged 23 ppg and 11 rpg. Bargnani will never, ever average that. He's a horrible defender, but at least he rebounds the basketball.
Again, it depends what you value. If you overvalue offense, and undervalue defense and rebounding, you might overvalue Bargnani. But defense and rebounding are just as important as offense, and Bargnani is horrible at both of those. Being great at one thing and being absolutely horrible in two other very important aspects of winning doesn't put you in the top ten list. It should put you on the bench.
And, quick, name one center who has ever been considered a top player at the position who has rebounded at a rate as low as Bargnani.
Bargnani is a top 20 center. No discussion there. He is probably last in the league in defense, and top 5 in offense.
as if these idiots know that. they think scoring 20+ points once in a while (inefficiently too) means you're all-star material.Quote:
Tim W. wrote:
also, those same geniuses saying that PF's like Gasol or Duncan or Bosh or Amare shouldn't be listed are really proving their ignorance since Bargs is "naturally" a PF forced into the C position, but really his game is closer to that of a volume-shooting SG/SF. You can all bla bla bla about points, but at the end of the day you're just proving how 1-dimensional he is. Keep it up the good work.
offensive potential doesnt make you top 10 anything....
if you dont start with his rebounding ur bargs argument is dead....
lol
Bargnani is not in the same class as Kaman,Bogut,Al Jeff or Lopez
Bargnani is in the same class as Tyson Chandler,Spencer Hawes,Samuel Dalembert cept hes only better than Spencer Hawes...
Yes, it does. Unless you believe that Steve Nash, Gilbert Arenas, Peja Stojakovic, and Dirk Nowitzki have never been top 10 in their respective positions.Quote:
Tim W. wrote:
Rik Smits. (you asked)Quote:
Tim W. wrote:
Excuse me? Steve Nash is only great at one thing? Would that be shooting or passing? And the only thing he's below average at is defense, and while his man-to-man defense isn't good, he's actually a pretty good team defender.Quote:
jrdyck wrote:
Gilbert Arenas is not a good defender, but he's not bad at anything else.
And what is Dirk bad at? His defense is actually not bad. He's not going to make any All-Defensive teams, but he's not a liability on that end. And his 8.5 career rebounding numbers, as well as the fact that he's averaged as many as 9.9 rpg, attests the fact that he's a pretty good rebounder.
As for Peja, he's a fair rebounder for his position and his defense has only been bad since he went to New Orleans and hurt himself. And he's never been a top ten player at his position since then. In Sacramento, his defense was okay, although he certainly never had the quickness to stay with quick players.
None of those players you mentioned are below average in more than one area. Bargnani is.
Like it or not, big man have more responsibility than other players, just as PGs have more responsibility. Big men NEED to rebound the ball. Guards don't.
Yes, I did. And you're absolutely incorrect. While Smits' career rebounding average is only 6.1 rpg (which is Bargnani's best average), he also only played 26.6 mpg. Per 36 minutes, Smits career rebounding numbers are 8.2 rpg, compared to Bargnani's per 36 rebounding numbers of 5.9 rpg. Smits was a much, much better rebounder than Bargnani is. And while we're on the subject of Smits, he was a good defensive player and his per 36 average for scoring over his career was 20.1 ppg, so he could score at a rate similar to Bargnani, at the very least, as well. So Smits was a much better rebounder and defender, and about on par as a scorer.Quote:
jrdyck wrote:
And he only made 1 All-Star game.
Thanks for bringing him up.
Did anyone watch Bargnani's past game. He got 4 assists, finally. Some bloggers were complaining about how he didn't pass enough, but his dish for Weems' dunk was awesome!
Rik Smits? His defence wasn't super good. Check out this video. Its just as bad as anything Bargs has done. Well, I guess I shouldn't get too carried away.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YSMXxXcxRwQ
Shaq has made loads of great defenders look bad on occasion. I never liked Smits' game, but he was a fine defensive player. If he played today, he'd definitely be a top ten center, but there aren't nearly as many good centers today as there used to be.Quote:
RaptorDan wrote:
http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/11/2...me-do-the.html
Great article.
Think they are wishing they took him instead of Bosh? Think Bosh liked seeing this one in the Herald this morning??
Heh.
LOL.. i hope the herald has an article on Delonte's womanizing ways and love of older women
I wonder why they posted this article? Completely irrelevant to them. Anyways nice to see that Bargnani is making a name for himself.
its a back handed shot @ bosh who they have quickly realized is not an allstar and nothing like a 22/11 guy on any decent team.Quote:
JoePanini wrote:
The last 4 games are Bargs best ever - I am not a believer yet. He was garbage in WAS and MIA. But I am open to the idea that he might be a player after all and that is not something I would have said before.
Also remarkable is he is doing it even though they are game planning for him - in other words he is not getting his shots because they are double teaming Bosh.
Maybe if Bosh reads it he will want Bargnani to join Wade, and LeBron as donors for his milk mustacheQuote:
Craig wrote:
LOL Imagine tomorrow morning on ESPN Rumors we see:
Quote:
The Heat have offered Joel Anthony and Udonis Haslem for Andrea Bargnani
That was a great article! Let's hope Bargs can keep it going!
This...Quote:
skywalker wrote: