Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

Thanks for the welcome, I've been reading stuff on this sight for about year before I decided to join, I watch the raptors religiously so I said why not :P

Unfortunately Tracy McGrady, Carter, and now Bargs seem to have all suffered from this spoiled and bratty complex. I think it's a direct result from the fans here showering every potential star with so much praise. Do you remember the days we chanted MVP for BOSH? I mean even how we treat derozan now. I am a big fan, but I dont want him to get all cocky like the rest of our stars have. Bargnani's sense of entitlement seems to have taken all drive to get better away from him.

+100000

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Tim W. wrote:

He's a big man who is a horrible defender and rebounder

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Agreed, although I'd say he's a horrible help defender and rebounder. I am by no means in love with Bargs and have no problem of shipping him out. The only difference between me and about 95% of the people that have submitted thousands of posts to a thread dedicated to one player (a bit excessive, don't you think) is that I want to trade on par, not 10 cents on the $.

So what I would like to see more people do is to see Bargs as an asset instead as dead weight:
1. We highlighted his bad sides (poor defense, rebounding, and lack of effort), BUT he still is a 25 year old 7 footer averaging 20+ points a game that can shoot a 3. And that my friend is always an asset in the NBA.
2. He doesn't have an injury history and is on a reasonable contract for a big man.

Instead how about we start exploring the alternatives to what I have been reading for at least a year now:
1. Option one trade Bargs - But to get something comparable for him, something in the lines of Rudy Gay. This is not unreasonable at all if the media/fans/management do not drive his price constantly down and making other managers think that we HAVE to trade him. When you are in that HAVE TO situation we will get that Gooden guy in return and make some team very happy.
2. Option two keep Bargs - This option is in conjunction with my previous post that TO's biggest problem is not Bargs, but Triano. I would just love to see Phil Jackson on Bargs' case for a season. I guarantee that after that season nobody would be talking about his lack of effort. Just remember how Phil was on Gasol's case in the game against Dallas when he was too unassertive.

Source

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By now many Raptors fans have either read or heard about some recent comments made by Andrea Bargnani on a Sky Sports broadcast that were translated from Italian and interpreted from there.

Bargnani has responded to some of the media reaction to his words with the following statement this afternoon:

“I wish to personally clarify and correct an inaccurate portrayal of my words that recently appeared in the media. Much of what I said was taken out of context with respect to an entire conversation.

“I want to make clear my love for Toronto and that I consider the city a second home. I never said that I want to leave Toronto and I'm sorry if fans interpreted the inaccuracy that way.

“I am proud to represent Toronto and the Raptors organization. I appreciate what Bryan Colangelo and the organization has done for me during the past five years of my career. I will always continue to work to improve myself as a player in an effort to reward the organization and our fans with the best team possible.”

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His agent is on damage control. Seems like a generic typical PR statement.

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dzoni71 wrote:

Agreed, although I'd say he's a horrible help defender and rebounder. I am by no means in love with Bargs and have no problem of shipping him out. The only difference between me and about 95% of the people that have submitted thousands of posts to a thread dedicated to one player (a bit excessive, don't you think) is that I want to trade on par, not 10 cents on the $.

So what I would like to see more people do is to see Bargs as an asset instead as dead weight:
1. We highlighted his bad sides (poor defense, rebounding, and lack of effort), BUT he still is a 25 year old 7 footer averaging 20+ points a game that can shoot a 3. And that my friend is always an asset in the NBA.
2. He doesn't have an injury history and is on a reasonable contract for a big man.

Instead how about we start exploring the alternatives to what I have been reading for at least a year now:
1. Option one trade Bargs - But to get something comparable for him, something in the lines of Rudy Gay. This is not unreasonable at all if the media/fans/management do not drive his price constantly down and making other managers think that we HAVE to trade him. When you are in that HAVE TO situation we will get that Gooden guy in return and make some team very happy.
2. Option two keep Bargs - This option is in conjunction with my previous post that TO's biggest problem is not Bargs, but Triano. I would just love to see Phil Jackson on Bargs' case for a season. I guarantee that after that season nobody would be talking about his lack of effort. Just remember how Phil was on Gasol's case in the game against Dallas when he was too unassertive.

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Well, he's a horrible help defender, a below average man-to-man defender and an extremely poor rebounder.

And no one is denying his scoring is great, but it's kind of like a car with a great motor and no wheels. If it doesn't help you actually get anywhere, who cares how good the motor is? If you can trade the motor for a car that will actually get you someplace, then you're in a better position than you were.

Bargnani IS an asset, but he's a trade asset. He's a liability when he's on the floor, so it's far better to let someone else try and deal with his defense and rebounding problems.

One thing that really bugs me, though, is people blaming the coach for Bargnani's problems. First of all, the blame lies on Bargnani first and foremost. Secondly, people expect FAR too much of a coach. Phil Jackson did nothing for Stacey King, or Kwame Brown, or Vladimir Radmanovic. You guys think that good coaches can make players into something they are not. Bargnani will never be a good defensive player. Under Phil Jackson, Bargnani probably would barely get off the bench. He wouldn't suddenly figure out how to play team defense.

And Pau Gasol is a self starter. So are most of the players that have played under Phil Jackson. Pau was an All Star before he ever played for Phil Jackson, and actually knows how to play good defense. Bargnani is a guy who has NEVER been anything but a scoring big man who's shown little to no interest in doing anything else.

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Apollo wrote:

Source: "Colangelo On Tim & Sid"

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I think you posted this in the wrong thread.

Fixed.

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e2thed wrote:

Source




His agent is on damage control. Seems like a generic typical PR statement.

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I think he's sincere. I was saying from the minute this hit that something got lost in translation.
The guy clearly baited him into it.

Whether or not we trade him, I REALLY hope he gets his shit together and starts playing like the player he should be.
It's a shame.

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Apollo wrote:

Hey enlightenment, welcome to the board if I have not already said it before. I hear you 100%. Bargnani strikes me as the poster boy for the way pro sports is heading with this new "everyone is special" generation. A lot of youth coming out of high school now have a sense of entitlement and it's going to be a real damper on society if they can't shake that b.s. they've been pumped full of for 17 years. Athletes have it even worse seeing how they're getting a heavier dose of it and they're getting it also from their peers/hangers the whole way up through. I think Bargnani is a lost cause when it comes to him maximizing his potential. He's missing a key ingredient needed to harness his amazing innate abilities. He suffers from one of the same problems that held Carter back. So talented that he never really needed to push himself to taste a level of success and so coddled that he never learned the value of pushing one's self.

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Very well said. There are examples of people with that affliction in many walks of life.

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enlightenment wrote:

Thanks for the welcome, I've been reading stuff on this sight for about year before I decided to join, I watch the raptors religiously so I said why not :P

Unfortunately Tracy McGrady, Carter, and now Bargs seem to have all suffered from this spoiled and bratty complex. I think it's a direct result from the fans here showering every potential star with so much praise. Do you remember the days we chanted MVP for BOSH? I mean even how we treat derozan now. I am a big fan, but I dont want him to get all cocky like the rest of our stars have. Bargnani's sense of entitlement seems to have taken all drive to get better away from him.

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No Derozan deserves to be cheered on. Vince carter was cocky right out of college its not like the fans made him cocky. DeRozan is a focused guy who tries his best every game. I'll be the first to chant MVP for him

Hey Andrea I want 2 make things clear 2 u 2...U SUCK!!!
Don't worry will trade ure arseeee 2 Minesota...Have a Nice Day!!!

P.S

Ohh yeah ure Primo Pasta commericals suck also..

Dr Hannibal Lecter

If I were him, I wouldn't care what someone says if they write with "2's" and "u's" instead of spelling of the whole word, and doesn't know how to spell Minnesota.
On the VERY slim chance he did read that, he's most likely laughing at you, because his English is propably better than yours.

But his commercial is REALLY bad.

Derozen seems to be the first "star" player that genuinely wants to be here and help this team turn things around. Love that dude for that.

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Tim W. wrote:

No one is blaming him for going on vacation. The photo, though, makes him appear like he's about as in shape as I am. Unfortunately, I'm not a professional athlete. I don't like criticizing Bargnani for things outside of basketball, but this doesn't make him seem like he's that dedicated, when he lets his body look like this. And complaining about his role, after he was the team's 1st option and the guy who played the most minutes. It just seems a little petty to me.

I don't care about him saying he'd like a warmed climate. I agree, everyone would like that (well in Canada), and Feschuk is not a reported I generally think much of, but it's simply the article doesn't indicate Bargnani's got much of a future in Toronto.

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Wow your gay and a chump. When in the hell did anybody ever hate on Bargs for being out of shape? Raptors are the next team on the move because of stupid fans like you. Apparently nobody is good enough to play in Toronto... Nice standards!

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Nick wrote:

Wow your gay and a chump. When in the hell did anybody ever hate on Bargs for being out of shape? Raptors are the next team on the move because of stupid fans like you. Apparently nobody is good enough to play in Toronto... Nice standards!

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Where do I start....

Well, first of all, it's `you're', not `your'.

I'm not actually gay, but unlike you, apparently, I don't care whether someone is, so calling them that isn't actually an insult. In fact, it's pretty childish. If you aren't 12 years old, you might want to start thinking about changing the way you address people. You come across as incredibly immature. And if you are 12 years old, I'd still cut that talk out because it's incredibly ignorant.

One of Bargnani's problems is that he doesn't generally seem to work hard when he's on the court. He even said it himself when he said him not getting more rebounds is just him being lazy. Looking at his body is a bit of a red flag. It tells me he's not dedicated. You think a guy like DeRozan ever looks like that? Doubtful, since he's known to be incredibly dedicated. That's what I like to see from guys on my team.

Anyone who thinks the Raptors are moving knows so little about NBA economics, they should be embarrassed for bringing it up.

Lots of players are good enough to play in Toronto. Anyone who gives a consistent effort, works hard on both ends of the court and has a positive effect on the court is good enough to play in Toronto, in my opinion. Guys like Ed Davis and Amir Johnson are two such players. DeMar DeRozan has shown a dedication to the game and improvement on both ends of the court, which has impressed me. Jose Calderon, while not a good defensive player, consistently works hard and has a positive effect when he's on the floor. Reggie Evans makes up for his lack of skill with more heart than probably anyone on the team. He's not someone I'd want to give a lot of minutes or money to, but he's the type of guy whose work ethic is contagious. Even James Johnson and Jerryd Bayless seem to work hard on the court, to mixed results.

What you don't seem to get is that scoring 21 ppg doesn't impress me if that's all you do. Especially when Bargnani literally has a negative impact on the team. In five years, he's shown very little desire to improve himself in any aspect other than scoring the ball.

My question is, why on earth does that impress you?

I heard the interview in ITA (I'm from Milan as you may remember) and can be translate like this to me:

AB: Like I already said thousand time I want stay in TO and I'll should prefer to play PF. But after BC's final year interview I will wait and see what will be.

maybe you are underestimating the word "political" that here in Italy has tons of meanings

he is asking to not asking more this!

in the first part of the sentence he also said that he prefer to stay here and that he want to demonstrate that he can be a better defender/rebounder.

Hope I was able to explain myself :)

This is the first part of the interview where he mentioned "political" and "hot place"
Andrea Bargnani for Sky Italy

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joey_hesketh wrote:

If I were him, I wouldn't care what someone says if they write with "2's" and "u's" instead of spelling of the whole word, and doesn't know how to spell Minnesota.
On the VERY slim chance he did read that, he's most likely laughing at you, because his English is propably better than yours.

But his commercial is REALLY bad.

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i know i'm laughing at him. Hahahaha

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Nick wrote:

Wow your gay and a chump. When in the hell did anybody ever hate on Bargs for being out of shape? Raptors are the next team on the move because of stupid fans like you. Apparently nobody is good enough to play in Toronto... Nice standards!

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I'm glad most posters don't resort to such petty attacks when a good argument is out of reach. Props to Tim for not stooping to this low level in retaliation.

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teoserio wrote:

I heard the interview in ITA (I'm from Milan as you may remember) and can be translate like this to me:

AB: Like I already said thousand time I want stay in TO and I'll should prefer to play PF. But after BC's final year interview I will wait and see what will be.

maybe you are underestimating the word "political" that here in Italy has tons of meanings

he is asking to not asking more this!

in the first part of the sentence he also said that he prefer to stay here and that he want to demonstrate that he can be a better defender/rebounder.

Hope I was able to explain myself :)

This is the first part of the interview where he mentioned "political" and "hot place"
Andrea Bargnani for Sky Italy

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Thanks Teoserio. Was hoping we'd get an in house translation.
So in your opinion, his comments were simply taken out of context?
Seems like he is trying to make a joke, more than make a serious statement.

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Tim W. wrote:

It's not even the same ownership, though. And they've had very little input since Colangelo took over.

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Im not sure if you can really prove that any of the decisions Colangelo made were never at the tiniest bit influenced by the owners. They may say that theyre not influencing BC in anyway, but if you yourself is heavily invested in something thats really not producing great results, will you just sit back and not even say a word? I highly doubt that. It may not be as grand as "trade for this guy" or "sign this guy" but a word or two that would impact the way BC is running the team is considered influencing.

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Sam Mitchell certainly didn't allow Bargnani to not rebound or play defense, no matter what management might have said. And he was his coach the first 2.5 years. As for Triano, I know a lot of fans around here don't like him, but he's smart enough to know you're not going to win much without your big man doing the dirty work. Besides, I've seen Triano yell at Bargnani for not doing that exact thing.

And I don't think management is going to micromanage things from behind closed doors. That simply doesn't make any basketball sense. Why would they do that?

I also think that you're forgiving the player far too much. If I'm Bargnani, and management tells me that I don't have to rebound or play defense, I'm smart enough to know you aren't going to win that way. This isn't Nazi soldiers following orders, here. If Bargnani doesn't have a high enough basketball IQ to realize that's a horrible way for a big man to play, then the fault lies with him, and he should be shipped off immediately.

For more reading on Bargnani, I just posted this on him...
http://www.wearingfilm.com/picketfen...s-of-bargnani/

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The buzz was Mitchell got fired for not playing Bargnani enough, and if your coach gets fired while youre still on the team, i guess that constitutes that even if you are not a perfect player, youre still doing some good things, otherwise, they wouldve traded you out instead of replacing the coach. What im trying to say is BC sided with Bargnani, so i dont think he was on his case much earlier than you were assuming.

If you look at his stats, Bargnani was getting 3.9 rebs during year 1 and improved to 6.2 in year 4. He was avging .8 blks his 1st year and jumped to 1.4 his 4th year. Im not saying his numbers were great, but he was showing improvement from year to year, which, i presume, was the result of him putting in effort. Now in his 5th year, when he becomes the focal point of everything, he regresses. What changed? His effort? Maybe. The trainer's focus on his abilities to develop? Maybe. I think there were many, many factors on why he regressed, but clearly, he puts in the effort and time to improve as his stats clearly show, so i think there might be more things going on that just position and being lazy.

I think youre just isolating that fact that its just Bargnani who controls everything in his career, unfortunately, i dont think thats how it works in the NBA. Talent is first, then effort, but you are surrounded by trainers, nutritionist, coaches, assistant coaches, GMs who tell you on a daily basis how to move, eat, post up, defend, etc etc. I get where youre coming from with the initiative factor, but not everybody has initiative. And I dont think management told him not to play defense or rebound, but they probably, unconsciously instilled in him that they want him to make an effort MORE in scoring rather than rebounding and defending. And as ive said before, before the Raptors drafted him, he already played 4 years in the Euroleague, not even amateur ball, and he was never a big rebounder or defender, he was always branded as a scorer. and starting at such a young age, it probably got instilled in him that i am and will always be a scorer.