Everything Bargnani: Grumble, Grumble, Grumble

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slaw wrote:

I didn't raise the point to bash Bargnani and I don't disagree that Mitchell's relationship with Bargs was contentious and I am sure Bargs was happy to see him go. The point I was trying to make is that whenever I hear stuff like, "best shape of my life!" "whole new player" "better than I ever felt before" "really worked on my game this offseason" "the lockeroom has the best chemistry ever" I just take it all with a grain of salt. This stuff is said every year in all 30 organizations and is usually bullshit. The best coach is always the next one, the best offseason is always next year and the best roster is always just around the corner...

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Very true.

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slaw wrote:

I didn't raise the point to bash Bargnani and I don't disagree that Mitchell's relationship with Bargs was contentious and I am sure Bargs was happy to see him go. The point I was trying to make is that whenever I hear stuff like, "best shape of my life!" "whole new player" "better than I ever felt before" "really worked on my game this offseason" "the lockeroom has the best chemistry ever" I just take it all with a grain of salt. This stuff is said every year in all 30 organizations and is usually bullshit. The best coach is always the next one, the best offseason is always next year and the best roster is always just around the corner...

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All fair points.

The truth is rarely said in the here and now. When changes are made, the truth comes out. When looking forward, nothing bad can or will happen.

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slaw wrote:

I didn't raise the point to bash Bargnani and I don't disagree that Mitchell's relationship with Bargs was contentious and I am sure Bargs was happy to see him go. The point I was trying to make is that whenever I hear stuff like, "best shape of my life!" "whole new player" "better than I ever felt before" "really worked on my game this offseason" "the lockeroom has the best chemistry ever" I just take it all with a grain of salt. This stuff is said every year in all 30 organizations and is usually bullshit. The best coach is always the next one, the best offseason is always next year and the best roster is always just around the corner...

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chicago bulls 1993 and again 98 :)

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slaw wrote:

I didn't raise the point to bash Bargnani and I don't disagree that Mitchell's relationship with Bargs was contentious and I am sure Bargs was happy to see him go. The point I was trying to make is that whenever I hear stuff like, "best shape of my life!" "whole new player" "better than I ever felt before" "really worked on my game this offseason" "the lockeroom has the best chemistry ever" I just take it all with a grain of salt. This stuff is said every year in all 30 organizations and is usually bullshit. The best coach is always the next one, the best offseason is always next year and the best roster is always just around the corner...

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hahaha that is so true. But i guess for this season, you can actually make Bargnani an exception because we have all seen how much he's improved. And next season, with a full camp and full practices, we might be in for another round of "best".

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tbihis wrote:

hahaha that is so true. But i guess for this season, you can actually make Bargnani an exception because we have all seen how much he's improved. And next season, with a full camp and full practices, we might be in for another round of "best".

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Honest question: what specific parts of Bargnani's game have improved? His shooting percentages are in line with or below his career averages. His rebounding numbers are at his career average. The only statistical differences I can see are: he's shooting about 5% better from the free throw line and he's made a negligible improvement to his assist numbers. Defensively, his DRTG is back to where it was under Sam Mitchell. I don't know how much of this is attributable to Bargnani cause: the Raptors play at a glacial pace and everyone else's DRTG is better, too.

Now, stats aren't everything, so I am ready to be convinced that others are seeing with their eyes a "new" Bargnani. To my eye, he looks pretty much the same as the Bargnani from last year and the year before that and the year before that. There isn't a long history of guys showing vast improvements in Year 7 of of a NBA career, so I expect the same guy next year.

What am I missing?

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slaw wrote:

...What am I missing?

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His help defence is tremendously improved. His defensive numbers get hurt when the rotations don't cover his guy while he is showing at the top of the key. I would say he is taking it to the basket more as well. Part of the numbers are skewed, I believe, because he came back too soon form his injury, then had that abysmal stretch of 10 games or so before he got back to playing well. Obviously a lot of the excitement is due to folks believing that he should be judged on the string of 13 good games, instead of the string of 10 bad ones when he returned form injury and didn't appear to be fully recovered.

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Puffer wrote:

His help defence is tremendously improved.

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Not sure if I agree with this. He definitely hedges harder when defending PNRs, but if he's the last man standing under the basket, his help defense is just as poor as it's always been.

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Nilanka wrote:

Not sure if I agree with this. He definitely hedges harder when defending PNRs, but if he's the last man standing under the basket, his help defense is just as poor as it's always been.

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If you're the last man standing under the basket, you're not providing help, you're looking for it. :-)

Andrea Bargnani is out for the rest of the season, according to BleacherReport from a tweet from Marc Spears! I guess Raptors are starting tanking from here on now :/

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Blacklash2k4 wrote:

Andrea Bargnani is out for the rest of the season, according to BleacherReport from a tweet from Marc Spears! I guess Raptors are starting tanking from here on now :/

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Right you are:

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The Toronto Raptors announced Friday centre-forward Andrea Bargnani will miss the remainder of the 2011-12 season. He exited Sunday’s game in Oklahoma City at the 4:03 mark of the second quarter with left calf tightness.

Based on tests taken yesterday on his left calf and the reoccurrence of previous symptoms, Bargnani will be sidelined to eliminate any further risk.

Bargnani has averaged a team-high 19.5 points, with 5.5 rebounds and 33.3 minutes in 31 games. He led the team in scoring 13 times and recorded five games of 30 or more points. He missed 26 games with a left calf strain and one with left calf tightness.

http://blog.raptors.com/press-releases/bargnani_041312/

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If only it was earlier and calderon was out too.

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Blacklash2k4 wrote:

Andrea Bargnani is out for the rest of the season, according to BleacherReport from a tweet from Marc Spears! I guess Raptors are starting tanking from here on now :/

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<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/7g9WjcGdxuM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
.

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LBF wrote:

If only it was earlier and calderon was out too.

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+1

Interesting quote from Casey, as taken from the Toronto Star.

"Casey said his first up-close and personal look at Bargnani after seeing him as an opposing coach was enlightening. He was impressed by Bargnani’s “ability to play defence, his quickness and speed at the defensive end . . . pick-and-roll coverages.

“Just using his length on the defensive end. I had never seen it, but I saw it. He showed it and as my grandfather said, ‘He told on himself.’

“I know now he can do it, so that’s going to be the command coming back in next year.”

http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...-celtics-84-79

This is nothing new, every coach has said they've seen him do it. Even Bargnani said he can do it.

The problem is/was that he's lazy. But, if he says Casey has got him to commit good for him.

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Puffer wrote:

Interesting quote from Casey, as taken from the Toronto Star.

"Casey said his first up-close and personal look at Bargnani after seeing him as an opposing coach was enlightening. He was impressed by Bargnani’s “ability to play defence, his quickness and speed at the defensive end . . . pick-and-roll coverages.

“Just using his length on the defensive end. I had never seen it, but I saw it. He showed it and as my grandfather said, ‘He told on himself.’

“I know now he can do it, so that’s going to be the command coming back in next year.”

http://www.thestar.com/sports/basket...-celtics-84-79

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Notice how he talks about only defensive screens and picknroll coverages. Nothing about Bargnani challenging a bigman in the post or protecting his basket against guards.

Besides what do you expect a coach to say about your best player? That he is no good on the other end?

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draftedraptor wrote:

Notice how he talks about only defensive screens and picknroll coverages. Nothing about Bargnani challenging a bigman in the post or protecting his basket against guards.

Besides what do you expect a coach to say about your best player? That he is no good on the other end?

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Considering the primary offensive weapon in the NBA is the pick and roll, that is a pretty big component of defense and a compliment to Bargnani's contribution.

Will he ever bang with the bangers? No.

Will he ever be a help side shot blocker? No.

Will he ever be a great rebounder (or good)? No (no).

Is he utterly useless defensively? No.


He is what he is. I hope he can be healthy next year and contribute to a winning Raptors team.

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Matt52 wrote:

...He is what he is. I hope he can be healthy next year and contribute to a winning Raptors team.

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He is a pretty good face-up defender as well. As you have mentioned in the past Matt.

They need to show videos of Bargnani's non-13 game self to Bargnani to show him how not to play

http://biffbampop.files.wordpress.co...exludovico.jpg

This thread is becoming a very good time capsule of Raptors fans emotions towards Bargnani.