so he isn't arguing the ends... he's arguing the means
is this accurate:
We are all in agreement that Bargnani should not be a part of this team.
Pooka is saying, I agree that he should not be a part of this team, but the reason some postes have on why he should not be on this team, is not accurate
he's saying some of the statistics that are being brought up are horse shit... not they exist, or aren't real... he's questioning the validity of cherry picking advanced stats in order to discredit bargs...
kind of like... say you break up with a chick.... and your buddy asks you why you broke up with her... and you tell your buddy "oh it was her nose... i didn't like the way her nostrils were slightly upturned... and her nipples were strange... they were like innie nipples... and kinda peperroni like... not the big chicago pepperoni... the small tiny pepperonies you can buy in bulk at no frills... and her eyes were slightly uneven... and she has construction worker fingers"
he arguing against the nit picking... and basically advocating saying straight up "i broke up with her cuz she ugly"
that's what i take away from it anyways
I have admitted being in the wrong on numerous occasions. Clearly in this case, and many others, I'm just not all that smrt.
The reality is:
- the Raptors are, well now, 5-25 with Bargnani as a starter,
- they are 0-9 when he scores 20 or more,
- I've yet to come across a stat for this season that shows he helps Toronto in any way,
- numerous stats show the Raptors are worse with Bargnani on the floor.
From this I conclude the Raptors are better off without Bargnani this season and the better he does individually in the one thing he is suppose to be good at, the worse the outcome for the team. That is what I have been talking about.
I acknowledge there are are all sorts of reasons one could offer as to why the record is what it is with Bargnani (other teams best player ate bad sushi before the game, starting PG off opponent missed his nap, team didn't do the correct sequence in the warm up, the bus hit 4 red lights from the hotel to arena versus 2, Devlin only blamed the refs 87 times instead of the usual 93, someone flushed an arena toilet as Bargnani's ball was in mid air creating a butterfly effect causing the shot to miss and his confidence to take another plummet). But I always thought sport glory and criticism was outcome/production based: wins-losses/statistics. This subargument is bullshit in my opinion and splitting hairs for no other reason other than to be a dick. If the 'facts' I have provided are not suitable as to why Toronto is better WITHOUT Bargnani this season, and if p00ka or jimmie feel the same way, please show me how I could show this statement to be true so in the future I can be sure to state it properly. If wins and losses don't matter, lets give everyone a championship every year. If statistics don't matter, lets end the debate of best ever to play now and give the award to Popeye Jones because, well, I loved him when he played. MJ? Wilt? LeBron? Russell? Nah man. Fuck that shit man. Wins/losses/championships don't mean diddly squat. The debate of greatest coach ever? PJax? Red? Nah fuck that shit man. Number of championships or wins means nothing. Darrell Walker is the newly anointed great coach of all time. Why? Well look at the talent he had to work with... and they played in Canada.... and they played in the SkyDome. At some point some interpretation has to come in to what the numbers show. If you don't come to the conclusion the Raptors are a better team without Bargnani based on 5-25 as a starter and 0-9 when he score 20s or more (all of which happen to be games he started), then I don't know what to say and am going to clean up the drywall next to my desk that has accumulated from banging my head off it.
bargnani this summer will be either 1)amnestied or 2)sold for what we percieve as nothing ie. prospects, 2nd round picks. Quote me on that.
I know I'm being redundant in my post, but just trying to emphasis, we aren't getting anywhere with him as a Raptor, neither will he get anywhere as a Raptor.
Let's not kid ourselves here. It makes very little sense why someone would go through such lengths to discredit the methodologies of arriving at the conclusion that Bargnani sucks, unless they were trying to defend Bargnani, even on a subconscious level.
As the great Judge Judy often says, "if it doesn't make sense, it probably isn't true".
p00ka is a Bargnani fan (whether he wants to admit it or not).
I hate discussions where lots (most) of people are in agreement with one side of the argument and consequently good reasoning is no longer needed. I'm all for fair criticism, but reasoning which (in my opinion) just uses wrong arguments to reiterate some broadly accepted opinion doesn't do it for me.
But just curious as to why you (or p00ka) don't come to the defense of Gay, Lowry, or DeRozan (for example) when similar stats are used to draw erroneous conclusions...
I understand that Bargnani gets picked on more than others, but that isn't a coincidence.
Edit: We're all fans here, so it makes perfect sense for emotions to get involved. Just don't pretend you're an impartial mediator, that's all. In other words, there's nothing wrong with being a Bargnani fan. Just admit it. [Not necessarily meant to be towards you, Soft Euro]
research I did in the Boo Bargnani thread:
Since 1946, there have been a total of 109 players who were 6'11 or taller and averaged 20 or more minutes per game over the span of their careers.
Amongst those, guess where Bargnani ranks:
In rebounds per game? #100
In player efficiency? #80
In field goal percentage? #96
In blocks per game? #82
In Defensive rating? #109
Hmm. I just ran it again and it seems it's changed.. I must've done something in the filter. But anyway, here's the rehash:
On a search for all players 6'11+ with 22+ mpg averaged over their careers. Totals are different because some stats didn't exist until certain times, or if they don't have the stat the player doesn't show up on the ranking:
In rebounds per game? #106 (out of 108)
In player efficiency? #82 (out of 109)
In field goal percentage? #101 (out of 108)
In blocks per game? #70 (out of 103)
In Defensive rating? #103 (out of 103)
Why defend a guy like this? Apparently this thread is about giving this guy more minutes.