So can we now criticize BC for the Hibbert-O'Neal trade ?

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Apollo wrote:

I don't think Hibbert will ever reach Okafor's level. Okafor is a strong defender and a good rebounder. He's strong as an oxe and has the traits to be a very good veteran leader. Hibbert's goal should be Rasho Nesterovic.

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I think Hibbert could be better offensively than Okafor, but Okafor is simply more agile and athletic than Hibbert. I think there are many times when Hibbert can't be on the floor, like when the team is playing a small. Okafor can still keep up. Hibbert can't.

Why would Roy's goal to be like someone he is already better than right now ?

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MangoKid wrote:

Stats are concrete. Your futile arguments are not.

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not really my dude,stats are about as subjective as an opinion....esp in basketball you can twist stats to suit about anything you want....as you see on these boards with bargnani lol

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Tim W. wrote:

I don't if dealing the 17th pick is really all that high risk. And everyone seems to be forgetting the questions surrounding Hibbert when he came out. Most scouts thought he might not have the agility to be able to really be a big minute player in the NBA. Otherwise a 7'2 center that can defend, score and rebound would have gone much higher.

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Dealing the 17th pick was not the risky part, that was just part of paying too much. Taking on Jermaine's bad knees @ $22M/yr was the risk I was referring to...

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Trife76 wrote:

not really my dude,stats are about as subjective as an opinion....esp in basketball you can twist stats to suit about anything you want....as you see on these boards with bargnani lol

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Twist stats? Right. I understand that statistics are just too hard for you to comprehend. It's okay.

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Tim W. wrote:

I think Hibbert could be better offensively than Okafor, but Okafor is simply more agile and athletic than Hibbert. I think there are many times when Hibbert can't be on the floor, like when the team is playing a small. Okafor can still keep up. Hibbert can't.

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I think Hibbert's offense is overrated. He's playing on a crappy team and is getting his number called because of it. You put him on a playoff team and I bet his offensive stats go down, along with him PT.

Hibbert will get all-star consideration this year. I've watched some stuff in the pre-season and the kid seems focused and no longer lost on the court. Do, I care about the JO trade no.

In the long run Alabi/Davis will have good careers, perhaps better than Hibbert so I really don't care.

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Apollo wrote:

I think Hibbert's offense is overrated. He's playing on a crappy team and is getting his number called because of it. You put him on a playoff team and I bet his offensive stats go down, along with him PT.

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I'd agree his stats would go down on a better team, but he seems to have a softer touch than Okafor.

NOOOOOOOPE Meka had knee problems cming out of college too and people were skeptical about his offensive game at the pro level..where as Dwight was a far superior athlete with a much bigger ceiling....yes easy in hindsight but at the time i wasnt all that impressed with meka coming out and thought as well he could be a major stiff in the NBA...

Yeah but I'd take the fundamentally sound back to the basket Okafor any day.

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Trife76 wrote:

NOOOOOOOPE Meka had knee problems cming out of college too and people were skeptical about his offensive game at the pro level..where as Dwight was a far superior athlete with a much bigger ceiling....yes easy in hindsight but at the time i wasnt all that impressed with meka coming out and thought as well he could be a major stiff in the NBA...

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Alright, well you keep on believing that but there are dozens of too good to fail high school to the pros stories. Nobody is quetioning what Howard was valued for, they're question your take on who was the safer pick and it certainly wasn't a high school kid over the NCAA player of the year who had just led his team to a national championship.

I find it funny people talk about Hibberts stats relative to a shitty team but reject the same notion with bargnani instead suggesting he needs to be the No1 guy and other players took his space....

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Apollo wrote:

It was ok to criticize that trade from day one. It was high risk.

For the record, you can't say "Hibbert for O'Neal" because it's not accurate. It was Ford and a pick for O'Neal. Whether or not the Raptors would have selected Hibbert had they planned to keep the pick no one can know. They took Hibbert because the Pacers wanted him.

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you could always praise larry bird.

btw, it's not inaccurate either. it's more acurate than not.

I am afraid it's not time to discuss the bad deal. Hibbert has no body of work to speak of in the reg. season and there are other factors as well:

1) The Raps needed to let TJ go because of his spinal problems and inability to share the pg pos. with Jose
2) Hibbert was in fact the Pacers choice. The Raps first rounder was part of the deal
3) It was also a salary dump for the Raps (TJ had 4 more yrs @ approx. 8 mill left)
4) JO was supposed to be that centre that was supposed to help/mesh with Bosh. Didnt work but his contract could have been a valuable expiry...which didnt work out as well.

If you feel a need to criticize that deal it should be about the player coming back and how his subsequent transaction was handled which also involved another first rounder which we incidentally got back (Bosh) and Marion who didnt stay. As someone else said you cannot be selective about the past and the circumstances surrounding a multiple faceted transaction. eg. did TJ turn out to be a great bargain for the Pacers?

Yeah I'm a BC fan and I will have to add to this argument to his detriment:

BC has lost out on better talent than Roy Hibbert...

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Apollo wrote:

Yeah but I'd take the fundamentally sound back to the basket Okafor any day.



Alright, well you keep on believing that but there are dozens of too good to fail high school to the pros stories. Nobody is quetioning what Howard was valued for, they're question your take on who was the safer pick and it certainly wasn't a high school kid over the NCAA player of the year who had just led his team to a national championship.

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Thats why you have scouts plus it was #1 pick,i never thought Okafor was a 1 guy franchise player...D12 had that potential...you could very easily argue D12 and bargs are similar in how its a risk to draft them....i think Andrea was a bigger risk not having played over here and not having Dwights physical tools but i see some similarities in how both teams wanted to take a risk for hopefully a big reward...thats what you do when you got that first pick sometimes.....lol Sam Bowie

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Tim W. wrote:

Only if we can criticize every other single GM in hindsight for passing on players that ended up better than anyone expected. Only three current GMs haven't done that. Portland, Denver and Cleveland, and only because none of them have ever been in charge of a draft before.

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Why does Colangelo always seem to whiff BIG when it comes to passing on players and larger acquisitions, but gets praise for his bunt singles?

I'm still waiting for one of his vaunted moves to pan out. Lottery picks, second rounders with health issues (Jawaii most noticeably), big trades that flop, big signings that flop harder. It don't stop! If some fans expect to give him props for acquiring the Amir Johnson's and Sonny Weems of the league he should get criticism for trading 1st round picks for players that would help this team considerably now.

I agree hindsight is 20-20 but when is his FORESIGHT ever going to amount to anything significant? I hope Andrea and DeMar pan out, but I don't ever expect to see either of those players in an all-star game.

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Trife76 wrote:

Thats why you have scouts plus it was #1 pick,i never thought Okafor was a 1 guy franchise player...D12 had that potential...you could very easily argue D12 and bargs are similar in how its a risk to draft them....i think Andrea was a bigger risk not having played over here and not having Dwights physical tools but i see some similarities in how both teams wanted to take a risk for hopefully a big reward...thats what you do when you got that first pick sometimes.....lol Sam Bowie

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Yeah and the last #1 pick to come out of high school, who was a big man, with huge potential was Kwame Brown. He recieved great praise on the level of Dwight Howard as well. Look how that turned out.

I totally agree that Howard was then and is now the right pick but I cannot agree with you that back then he appeared to be the safer pick. Not even close.

Hibbert sucks, statistically speaking bargs is like 10x better than him.

Bargs, Toronto's TRUE all star

I think I am going to start a new thread with the title:

So can we now give BC props for the Delfino&Ukic - A.Johnson&Weems trade?

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Hotshot wrote:

I think I am going to start a new thread with the title:

So can we now give BC props for the Delfino&Ukic - A.Johnson&Weems trade?

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Do it!