More Reggie Evans is What This Team Needs

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

Big difference between playing with effort and toughness and throwing elbows and taking guys legs out or dirty basketball.

Effort and toughness is a desirable trait for any player and, unfortunately, not all have it.

Throwing elbows and taking guys legs out is a good way to end someone's career and shows an obvious lack of respect for the opponent as an athlete and human being.

---

It was an exaggerated example meant to illustrate the kind of chippy attitude I think this club needs and Reggie brings. Stepping under an opposing player is something that should never ever be done (unless its against the C$%tics) and I actually was put on crutches before when someone did it to me. Though throwing the odd elbow and setting some hard screens is always a great way to let guys know you're serious :).

As far as Reggie taking minutes from Amir and Davis goes, I think it would be good for both of them the have to earn minutes and practice against a guy who brings it like Reggie does. By what I've seen so far in pre-season Amir is not ready to play starters minutes in this league and I think that expecting more than 10 minutes a game out of Davis is unreasonable so there is room for Evans on this roster without hurting either of our projects. I also like the thought of Evans passing some of his no prisoners attitude to Dorsey. You can never have too many guys willing to do the dirty work.

Quote:

---

Brain Colangelo wrote:

Can someone please articulate what Reggie does that Joey Dorsey does not?

---

It's a matter of presence mostly. Reggie is a veteran who talks to guys all the time and seems to be a bit of an emotional leader, I've not seen anything like that out of Dorsey. In terms of what they bring statistically, Dorsey is probably better than Reggie since Dorsey can actually score a little.
Dorsey IS the kind of player I'm talking about in that first post. He gets mad at the carrot and swings at him: that's the attitude all our guys need. It is the attitude that I think many of us want in the Raptors future. The reason I focused on Reggie is because I think he can better pass that type of attitude to our young players.

Quote:

---

Tim W. wrote:

You lost me right at this point.

---

The recent Zach Randolph has been much better and almost led the Grizzlies to the playoffs last season. Don't know if he was in his contract year or not.

Quote:

---

hateslosing wrote:

It was an exaggerated example meant to illustrate the kind of chippy attitude I think this club needs and Reggie brings. Stepping under an opposing player is something that should never ever be done (unless its against the C$%tics) and I actually was put on crutches before when someone did it to me. Though throwing the odd elbow and setting some hard screens is always a great way to let guys know you're serious :).

---

Well that I can live with and agree with.

Quote:

---

Introcollapse wrote:

One thing that's being focused on in the North American coaching community is why it is that when the US or Canada goes to the worlds, they always (except the two most recent tournaments) get kicked out despite what looks like a talented roster.

The conclusion has been practice. The average practice to game ratio in Europe is 6:1. 6 practices to every game. That's why European players are so versatile and skilled (and not overly athletic. Skill > athleticism). However, at the pro level in North America (where young players with much room to grow are very prevalent), the practice to game ratio is about 1:2. That is why we see so many raw, athletic players that never meet their potential.

I'm not suggesting that we bench Davis, because that's counter productive. But limiting his minutes and focusing on discussing his playing time on the bench (what he did right and wrong) should be the overall focus. The kid's young. Much to learn. One must walk before they run.

---

Here's what I have to say to this. The effectiveness of practice depends a lot on two things:

1) Obviously the coach and his planning/training methods.

2) The other players in practice. In the case of Davis, he'd be going up against Amir Johnson, Reggie Evans and Joey Dorsey. Two of them are horrible offensive players while the other one is below-average. How much can Davis learn in practice by playing against these guys? In my opinion, not much, going up against a higher level of skill will allow him to get better than going up against scrubs. He'll also get a better valuation of where his defense stands because, as I'm sure you'll agree, those three will not challenge him nearly enough as a Taj Gibson. I agree that practice is a school where you learn, but the tutors and tests also need to be good. Switching to the other side of the ball, the three PFs I mentioned are decent rebounders but I'm not sure about their individual defense (save for Johnson who's better than the other two), so again, how much can Davis really learn from this caliber of players.

His time on the bench is going to be beneficial in terms of learning defense and offensive schemes, and this is one of the reasons why seldom-used bench players often impress when coming into a game. All they've done is practice and they're very good at sticking to the book.

Quote:

---

Introcollapse wrote:

Tim, as someone who's done coaching clinics and has a level 3 in NCCP, I disagree with you.

Players learn in practice, and simply are allowed to show their skills in games. The development occurs in practice. All playing will do for Ed is develop chemistry and get him into a bit of a groove. I don't want him playing more than 15 minutes a game. Basketball is not something you "learn on the job".

---

i agree. having played organized basketball for a number of years, you dont always put players in games to get them to develop. like what Intro said, thats where practice, one on one and scrimmages come into play. and if you keep getting players every year to develop them, why not just shut the team down, develop players all at the same time then when theyre fully developed put the team back in the NBA. NBA teams should always be working towards getting as far as possible as they can every season, and not throw a season away because players need to be develop for the future.

also, you cant always be thinking that just because somebody can score or you think has more potential than the other guy, youll throw the other guy out. basketball is a team game with multiple roles and positions, the raptors benefits from having reggie on the floor, with his toughness, rebounding and clearing the lane for others to score.

Quote:

---

Arsenalist wrote:

Here's what I have to say to this. The effectiveness of practice depends a lot on two things:

1) Obviously the coach and his planning/training methods.

2) The other players in practice. In the case of Davis, he'd be going up against Amir Johnson, Reggie Evans and Joey Dorsey. Two of them are horrible offensive players while the other one is below-average. How much can Davis learn in practice by playing against these guys? In my opinion, not much, going up against a higher level of skill will allow him to get better than going up against scrubs. He'll also get a better valuation of where his defense stands because, as I'm sure you'll agree, those three will not challenge him nearly enough as a Taj Gibson. I agree that practice is a school where you learn, but the tutors and tests also need to be good. Switching to the other side of the ball, the three PFs I mentioned are decent rebounders but I'm not sure about their individual defense (save for Johnson who's better than the other two), so again, how much can Davis really learn from this caliber of players.

His time on the bench is going to be beneficial in terms of learning defense and offensive schemes, and this is one of the reasons why seldom-used bench players often impress when coming into a game. All they've done is practice and they're very good at sticking to the book.

---

I agree with this as well, practice is not the end all be all of development. of course you have to put in rookies to give them a feel for the game, but in practice is where you drill them till they get the skillset right. repetition leads to memorization.

im all for the development of Ed Davis, he probably will be the future of the raps, but right now, you need a reggie evans to play alongside a bargnani and a kleiza, if you want a better shot at winning.

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

The TPE expires one year from the date of transaction it was received.

---

Ok, now I am clear on that part but one thing. There is a lockout looming. How difficult will it be for them to use this after the trade deadline? There was a draft during the last lock out year but I don't think there was a free agency. So my thoughts would be their last opportunity to turn the TPE in to something is the draft unless PA and Stern come to an agreement.

Quote:

---

Introcollapse wrote:

One thing that's being focused on in the North American coaching community is why it is that when the US or Canada goes to the worlds, they always (except the two most recent tournaments) get kicked out despite what looks like a talented roster.

The conclusion has been practice. The average practice to game ratio in Europe is 6:1. 6 practices to every game. That's why European players are so versatile and skilled (and not overly athletic. Skill > athleticism). However, at the pro level in North America (where young players with much room to grow are very prevalent), the practice to game ratio is about 1:2. That is why we see so many raw, athletic players that never meet their potential.

I'm not suggesting that we bench Davis, because that's counter productive. But limiting his minutes and focusing on discussing his playing time on the bench (what he did right and wrong) should be the overall focus. The kid's young. Much to learn. One must walk before they run.

---

The reality is that apart from cultural/behaviourial differences (coach-player relationship) the nba schedule is much more game playing heavy than is in Europe. Then there is the travel time and cba restrictions re practice time. Withholding the potential talents of a Davis from actual games would be a luxury especially for a team like the Raptors nevermind the oftentimes negative reaction from the player for lack of playing time if he perceives to be better than those getting minutes. I am sure you recognize that it's perceived to be a negative slight to be left off the rookie team at allstar time and one cant get on it without the playing time/numbers. I am of course referring to the realities of the pro game not the very positive approach you suggest. I cannot think of an example where a talented rookie was withheld in the modern nba for developmental reasons (Kobe may have been...but it was the Lakers and West was in charge).

what evans does joey does better

Reg The Fierce is one tough SOB. ANY team needs someone like that! He plays the game the way it should be paid. Cut loose the soft Euro pussys and get more like Reg on the squad. I am glad Dorsey wasn't the last cut.

Quote:

---

Karl Marx wrote:

Reg The Fierce is one tough SOB. ANY team needs someone like that! He plays the game the way it should be paid. Cut loose the soft Euro pussys and get more like Reg on the squad. I am glad Dorsey wasn't the last cut.

---

"Soft Euro pussys"? Who exactly would you be referring to? Kleiza is anything but soft. Calderon isn't a good defensive player, but I don't think anyone would call him soft. The only other European on the roster is Bargnani. As far as I know, you don't pluralize when referring to one person.

Quote:

---

Apollo wrote:

Ok, now I am clear on that part but one thing. There is a lockout looming. How difficult will it be for them to use this after the trade deadline? There was a draft during the last lock out year but I don't think there was a free agency. So my thoughts would be their last opportunity to turn the TPE in to something is the draft unless PA and Stern come to an agreement.

---

Very true and probable. There is definitely a dark cloud of uncertainty hanging over the NBA when the CBA expires - I believe it is June 30 could be wrong here.

Quote:

---

Brain Colangelo wrote:

Can someone please articulate what Reggie does that Joey Dorsey does not?

---

Nothing, but that doesn't mean we should trade him for more mediocrity. Parlaying our assets (cap space in summer, TPE) and turning it into something big is the way to go, can't be getting the Kleiza's of the world every year. Got to hit a home run and I ain't talking about Hedo either.

What happens if there's a lockout and the cap number is dropped? Then the Raptors are out of luck. I think they need to make their moves before the deadline. The cap space we're talking about probably wouldn't be much more than the MLE and BAE that may or may not exist after this year.

Ugh lets clear this up euros are not any more skilled than most american collegiate/pro players.....that myth is always perpetuated by fans who are jealous or agry about there own players or countrymens lack of athleticism and success compred to others in the NBA...

The highest skilled and "fundamentally" sound american players are above and beyond any euro player you can name....NBA players with the best shot stroke and form are american..i put fundamental in quotes cuz its a fable that certain players are more fundamental than players over here..its an outright myth....its one of those codewords..you cant play in the NBA and be successful if you dont have fundamentals..again kids dont buy that trick...

Kobe,Wade,Shuttlesworth,LeBron,KD always were athletically and fundamentally superior which is why they are BETTER...

and Jose Calderon is most definitely the definition of soft....Kevin Garnett and Anthony Johnson KNOW so

Quote:

---

Arsenalist wrote:

Nothing, but that doesn't mean we should trade him for more mediocrity. Parlaying our assets (cap space in summer, TPE) and turning it into something big is the way to go, can't be getting the Kleiza's of the world every year. Got to hit a home run and I ain't talking about Hedo either.

---

I would settle for Reggie not playing. There is upside to playing Reggie over Joey - showcase Reggie for a trade and keep Joey off the floor so that they can bring him back for cheap next year. Both are reasons to play Reggie, but are only marginal benefits to the team. I agree - don't trade Reggie for nothing, don't take on long term baggage, but he's worse than Joey and not part of the future of the team so he should ride the pine.