James Johnson Discussion

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ibzilla wrote:

SF on Toronto's roster- Kleiza, Weems, Wright, Johnson and sometimes Derozan. 4 guys who can play one position and if BC brings Wright and Weems back, he would have used a first round pick on a guy who is the backup of a backup who is backing up another guy who shouldn't be starting in the first place (Kleiza). Oh and we might end up drafting Perry Jones who is another small forward.

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Kleiza is out this year and looking like half of next year.
Weems is a SG and blew his opportunity.
Wright is a great worker, hustler, and seems like a good guy, I wish him all the best. But he is third string SF at best. 4 years of opportunities shows that.
DeRozan is a SG.

Johnson has had little chance in Chicago. He is a 6'9", 245lb SF. He has shown ability to rebound and defend based on his stats in college and limited action in the NBA. He puts up very similar to stats to Wright in nearly half the playing time. He has a contract of $1.8M next year and possibly $2.8M the year after. Very small risk financially, appears to be better than other SF options here, fills an immediate need with future upside possible.

I concede I wish the 1st round pick was not used but there are a lot of upside being neglected.

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ibzilla wrote:

And it's always valuable to have extra picks on hand come draft day as trading is rampant and you can always look to trade up. Let's look back, in 2005 Utah traded the 6th and 27th pick to move up to 3rd overall to draft Deron Williams.
Last year Miami gave up the 18th pick to Oklahoma to unload Daequon Cook's contract for the 32nd pick.
Portland moved up from 4th to 2nd by giving up an extra late first rounder ended up with Lamarcus
Honestly I could go on and on, every year this kind of stuff happens and wasting a valuable pick for a 24 year old player with no ceiling is Isiah Thomas-like from Brian Colangelo. Even if he really wanted Johnson he could have waited until free agency as NO ONE was going to pay a 26 year old with no upside anything more than the minimum.

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Which Johnson is 26 with no upside?

Why would the Raptors look to Miami trading the 18th pick and Cook for the 32nd pick... That really has ZERO relevance.

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TORONTO -- As the Bulls conducted their morning shootaround Wednesday on the Air Canda Centre court, James Johnson was in the building, undergoing his physical.

A Raptors spokesman said Johnson would address the media before Wednesday night's 6 p.m. tipoff.

"He was terrific for us," coach Tom Thibodeau said. "We didn't have a whole lot of minutes for him. His attitude was great. He worked extremely hard. He was athletic. I think it's a good move for the Raptors and for us. It gives us some flexibility moving forward."

The Bulls possess roughly $2.9 million of salary-cap space and two first-round picks in the 2011 NBA draft after acquiring the Heat's first-round pick, which Toronto owns, in exchange for Johnson.

The Bulls are talking to multiple teams about adding perimeter shooting help. Sources said the Bulls have offered draft picks and told teams that Omer Asik and Taj Gibson aren't available for now.

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Source: ChicagoBreakingSports.com

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joey_hesketh wrote:

Which Johnson is 26 with no upside?

Why would the Raptors look to Miami trading the 18th pick and Cook for the 32nd pick... That really has ZERO relevance.

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Trey is 26. The other two are 23. Not sure why anyone would care about a 10 day player like Trey when forming an argument though...

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ibzilla wrote:

And it's always valuable to have extra picks on hand come draft day as trading is rampant and you can always look to trade up. Let's look back, in 2005 Utah traded the 6th and 27th pick to move up to 3rd overall to draft Deron Williams.
Last year Miami gave up the 18th pick to Oklahoma to unload Daequon Cook's contract for the 32nd pick.
Portland moved up from 4th to 2nd by giving up an extra late first rounder ended up with Lamarcus
Honestly I could go on and on, every year this kind of stuff happens and wasting a valuable pick for a 24 year old player with no ceiling is Isiah Thomas-like from Brian Colangelo. Even if he really wanted Johnson he could have waited until free agency as NO ONE was going to pay a 26 year old with no upside anything more than the minimum.

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Great point for a strong draft class but what about in a weak draft class? Many people are saying that there is potential for a bunch of strong players to not declare due to the uncertainty of CBA negotiations. You might want to keep in mind that the Raptors will have the TPE asset available still on draft night. For this particular year that TPE on draft night will probably be worth more than a #30 overall first round pick. Who's going to give up anything good this year on draft night to give a stiff a guaranteed contract?

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joey_hesketh wrote:

Which Johnson is 26 with no upside?

Why would the Raptors look to Miami trading the 18th pick and Cook for the 32nd pick... That really has ZERO relevance.

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I meant James Johnson at the end of his rookie contract would be 26 and a free agent (with no upside)

As for the Miami reference, I meant teams can get desperate on draft day and unload contracts for picks, or try to move down. Oklahoma took advantage of Miami's desire to unload Cook's contract and acquired a mid first rounder from a second rounder. It was an example of how desperate teams get on draft day. An example like this could happen though; Minnesota ends up with the top pick followed by Sacramento, Cleveland and Toronto. Assuming Kyrie Irving is in the draft, he won't last until 4th overall and Toronto could use that second first round pick to catapult to first overall which could happen as Minny already has 3 pgs and drafted a SF last year. I'm saying an extra first rounder gives options to the Raptors they won't have now.

So he's like an undersized 4 then right? What's the upside here? Corlis Williamson? That would be sweet.

No seriously it would be.

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ibzilla wrote:

I'd rather draft a guy hoping he becomes a solid player and take that risk than wasting it on a scub like Johnson. Who was Landry Fields last year before the Knicks selected him. Look back on draft history and you can make some solid selections late in the first round. Johnson is a known commodity, he's a backup who couldn't get PT last year when Deng was injured meanwhile you are hoping and crossing your fingers by trading for him that he becomes Julian Wright. It's a horrible trade from any way you look at it. I'd rather draft a bust at 27 than trade for one honestly

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I beg to diagree:
1. Johnson is by no way a sure thing, but writing him off completely would be foolish. Time and time again we've seen players that flourish when they change scenery. As somebody pointed out, JJ is a prime example, and BC does have a track history of finding good players buried on other teams benches.
2. The Raptor season is by now over (at least the competetive part of it) so it is a pretty sure bet we will use the rest of it to evaluate players and see which ones will stick around. This can be a make or break thing for Johnson.
3. He only has one more guaranteed season after this one, so basically the only thing Raptors are jepordizing is about 2,5 million, a roster spot, and that draft pick.
4. And speaking of draft picks, yes picking at the 30 spot can bring in NBA talent, but I'm pretty confident all will agree more often then not it doesn't. Since this is still a 1st round selection unless CBA is changed in that regard (unlikely)that player we would have picked is guaranteed 2 years, so you would take on more guaranteed salary and clog up a roster spot for 2 years for another no-sure-thing. Actually I'd much prefer a high 2nd round pick then a very low 1st rounder as their contracts have much less guaranteed time and money.

So in short, will this be a good move? We'll see... But I actually think it's a better risk/reward scenario then hanging on to the Miami pick.

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ibzilla wrote:

I meant James Johnson at the end of his rookie contract would be 26 and a free agent (with no upside)

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Well I guess thats assuming he doesn't make any progress here in Toronto in the next 2 years... BIG assumption, but fine, you can have it I guess. I've been taking away all your other arguments.

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ibzilla wrote:

Assuming Kyrie Irving is in the draft, he won't last until 4th overall and Toronto could use that second first round pick to catapult to first overall which could happen as Minny already has 3 pgs and drafted a SF last year. I'm saying an extra first rounder gives options to the Raptors they won't have now.

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Because its THAT simple.

Ibzilla for GM!!!

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ibzilla wrote:

I meant James Johnson at the end of his rookie contract would be 26 and a free agent (with no upside)

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How do you know that? Thibodeau had great things to say about the kid. Also, when this contract ends he's a restrict free agent. He also has a qualifying offer that could lock him up another year, minimum.

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ibzilla wrote:

As for the Miami reference, I meant teams can get desperate on draft day and unload contracts for picks, or try to move down. Oklahoma took advantage of Miami's desire to unload Cook's contract and acquired a mid first rounder from a second rounder.

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Ok and so to allow a team to "unload" you need to be below cap or have a TPE. The Raptors won't have much cap space. The Raptors have $12M TPE. They could even toss in the rights to a guy like Sonny Weems or Julian Wright, both players who are probably far better than anything you can hope for this year with a pick between 28-30.

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ibzilla wrote:

Assuming Kyrie Irving is in the draft

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I'm actually seeing him now in many mock drafts at #4. Other players, who can actually play right now, are playing well and moving up the boards.

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ibzilla wrote:

Toronto could use that second first round pick to catapult to first overall which could happen as Minny already has 3 pgs and drafted a SF last year.

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This is the last draft you want to trade up into #1. There is no concensus #1. The 5th overall pick is just as likely to be as good as the 1st. People keep talking like this is 2006 all over again at best. Besides, the Raptors could win he lotto or move into the top three. Their odds aren't much worse that the 3rd worst team.

After trolling a chicago bulls forum and seeing what respectable members said about him, some common themes have emerged:

- The Chicago Bulls coach had no patience for JJ to develop, they want to win now.
- JJ is a very likeable player and works hard, most are sad to see him go.
- The believe is that trade occured due to Chicago trying to shad some salary quickly in order to create some space for a SG.
- Most believed JJ is a talented player and will become nice rotation player
- The biggest knack against JJ is his basketball IQ which ranks below average.

Everybody take a deeeeeeeeeep breath relllaxxxx....

Thankfully i know Colangelo's logic behind this trade....

He wants to accumulate all the johhnson's in the league...
so far trey, amir and james in order to recruit the king of all johnsons his former draft pick the one and only
JOE JOHNSON

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DunkinDerozan wrote:

Everybody take a deeeeeeeeeep breath relllaxxxx....

Thankfully i know Colangelo's logic behind this trade....

He wants to accumulate all the johhnson's in the league...
so far trey, amir and james in order to recruit the king of all johnsons his former draft pick the one and only
JOE JOHNSON

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Wtf?

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Hotshot wrote:

After trolling a chicago bulls forum and seeing what respectable members said about him, some common themes have emerged:

- The Chicago Bulls coach had no patience for JJ to develop, they want to win now.
- JJ is a very likeable player and works hard, most are sad to see him go.
- The believe is that trade occured due to Chicago trying to shad some salary quickly in order to create some space for a SG.
- Most believed JJ is a talented player and will become nice rotation player
- The biggest knack against JJ is his basketball IQ which ranks below average.

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The inside man. Nice sleuthing Hotshot. ;) haha

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Raptors_ wrote:

Wtf?

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ya man trust
i was told by my reliable unamed source who i completly trust

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DunkinDerozan wrote:

ya man trust
i was told by my reliable unamed source who i completly trust

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ok.....

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DunkinDerozan wrote:

Everybody take a deeeeeeeeeep breath relllaxxxx....

Thankfully i know Colangelo's logic behind this trade....

He wants to accumulate all the johhnson's in the league...
so far trey, amir and james in order to recruit the king of all johnsons his former draft pick the one and only
JOE JOHNSON

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I heard once all the Johnsons are together, they hold their fists in the air and yell JOHNSON, and then they all transform into one super huge Dwayne Johnson and give everyone the Peoples Elbow. Like the Power Rangers only different.

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joey_hesketh wrote:

I heard once all the Johnsons are together, they hold their fists in the air and yell JOHNSON, and then they all transform into one super huge Dwayne Johnson and give everyone the Peoples Elbow. Like the Power Rangers only different.

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Lmao! that would be epic.

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DunkinDerozan wrote:

Everybody take a deeeeeeeeeep breath relllaxxxx....

Thankfully i know Colangelo's logic behind this trade....

He wants to accumulate all the johhnson's in the league...
so far trey, amir and james in order to recruit the king of all johnsons his former draft pick the one and only
JOE JOHNSON

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Dude, you're on your way to "Troll of RR", sadly you're behind Multipaul, because hes got the avatars and the quotes.

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e2thed wrote:

Dude, you're on your way to "Troll of RR", sadly you're behind Multipaul, because hes got the avatars and the quotes.

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I didn't say that stuff... why is it quoting me?

Now if you actually ARE calling me a Troll... well I don't really know what to say to that.

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joey_hesketh wrote:

I heard once all the Johnsons are together, they hold their fists in the air and yell JOHNSON, and then they all transform into one super huge Dwayne Johnson and give everyone the Peoples Elbow. Like the Power Rangers only different.

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actually they transform into magic johnson and showtime comes back!

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joey_hesketh wrote:

I didn't say that stuff... why is it quoting me?

Now if you actually ARE calling me a Troll... well I don't really know what to say to that.

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My bad , LOL copy n paste mess up, PS, you're a supporting Troll, "Troll of RR" is like the Oscars, the BEST Troll only gets remembered.