Keep Calderon?

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Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 08:06 AM
Matt52

Quote:

your mom wrote:

I really think that we have nothing but trash at SF, and landing Jones or someone similar should be our first priority.

Personally, I think that is a bit harsh. I like what James Johnson and Kleiza bring. The problem is neither are great, or even good, starters. They are great guys to have coming off the bench.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 08:09 AM
Matt52

Quote:

Arsenalist wrote:

Jose Calderon is as much a starting point guard as Jarrett Jack.

The Raptors have to make PG a priority this draft/summer and ensure that they get a floor general that can play defense, be a cornerstone for years to come, and has potential to become one of the top 5 PGs in the next three years. Easier said than done, but that should be goal #1.

Keep Calderon as a backup as a guy who'll be in the new PGs ear. All accounts suggest that Calderon is a great locker room presence, a true professional, and a great teammate, why would anyone not like to have him on this team. Now, if there's a package out there where we get to trade him for more defense or picks, that's an option too. At this point I think Calderon is an asset, not a liability, just as long as he's not starting next year.

Raymond Felton
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 10:42 AM
Balls of Steel

We all know that if a team trades for Calderon, he's a goner. That's 9 mil off our books. He's a good mentor and a backup but not at that price. Matt52's trade proposal above is boner material but hinges on Utah giving up Millsap.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 10:47 AM
Matt52

Quote:

Balls of Steel wrote:

We all know that if a team trades for Calderon, he's a goner. That's 9 mil off our books. He's a good mentor and a backup but not at that price. Matt52's trade proposal above is boner material but hinges on Utah giving up Millsap.

A little disturbed I caused you a boner, Balls. Don't forget the move saves UTA around $14M, gets them last year's #5, puts Favors at the PF, and gives 2 first round picks.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 10:52 AM
Balls of Steel

Quote:

Matt52 wrote:

A little disturbed I caused you a boner, Balls. Don't forget the move saves UTA around $14M, gets them last year's #5, puts Favors at the PF, and gives 2 first round picks.

I know. It's just that they're so high on Millsap. Also, my gut tells me that they won't be retaining AK47 so Wesley Johnson as their new three will be sexy!. Yes, Favors is young and cheap and perhaps spells the end of Millsap. This trade just makes so much effing SENSE!!!

God, Kevin O'Connor is a genius. I cannot believe that Utah can rebuild and compete at the same time. Yes, it's not the same without Deron and Sloan but man, they re-built without people even knowing it! Compare him to BC and it's just makes me wish the man can go away tomorrow!
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:01 AM
Multipaul

Caldy has already shown us that he really isn't as good coming off the bench, and as a starter, he is inconsistent at best.
Might be smart to keep him though, maybe as a 3rd option, or as a 2 guard. Maybe he can bring back that 3 ball he used to shoot with such poise.

Based on his contract though, he will most likely be gone with the wind this summer.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:13 AM
Maleko

Quote:

Arsenalist wrote:

Jose Calderon is as much a starting point guard as Jarrett Jack.

The Raptors have to make PG a priority this draft/summer and ensure that they get a floor general that can play defense, be a cornerstone for years to come, and has potential to become one of the top 5 PGs in the next three years. Easier said than done, but that should be goal #1.

Keep Calderon as a backup as a guy who'll be in the new PGs ear. All accounts suggest that Calderon is a great locker room presence, a true professional, and a great teammate, why would anyone not like to have him on this team. Now, if there's a package out there where we get to trade him for more defense or picks, that's an option too. At this point I think Calderon is an asset, not a liability, just as long as he's not starting next year.

I disagree with you this time and would say that SF is priority number one. There are a number of PG's in next year's draft (Myck Kabongo who loves T.O.). I agree with Calderon still being an asset, and that a strong trade for defense (this year or next) works too. Just don't agree on the priorities.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:14 AM
Apollo

Quote:

Multipaul wrote:

Caldy has already shown us that he really isn't as good coming off the bench, and as a starter, he is inconsistent at best.
Might be smart to keep him though, maybe as a 3rd option, or as a 2 guard. Maybe he can bring back that 3 ball he used to shoot with such poise.

Based on his contract though, he will most likely be gone with the wind this summer.

I'm totally puzzled by that post Multipaul because I would argue the exact opposite. If his career has shown any certainty its that he has played his best ball coming off the bench. His peak performances came while subbing for TJ Ford. Since then he's been at different altitudes down the hill... Calderon was one of the best reserve PGs in the league and I think once the time comes for him to go back to that role he will shine in it again.

For me personally, I think he's traded if they land Irving because at that point the primary need on the team is a starting SF and he may be able to help the team land that player. If the club lands a guy like Barnes then I could see Calderon playing out his contract in Toronto. After that all bets are off. I'm sure he would enjoy playing with Pau...
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:20 AM
Multipaul

Quote:

Apollo wrote:

I'm totally puzzled by that post Multipaul because I would argue the exact opposite. If his career has shown any certainty its that he has played his best ball coming off the bench. His peak performances came while subbing for TJ Ford. Since then he's been at different altitudes down the hill... Calderon was one of the best reserve PGs in the league and I think once the time comes for him to go back to that role he will shine in it again.

For me personally, I think he's traded if they land Irving because at that point the primary need on the team is a starting SF and he may be able to help the team land that player. If the club lands a guy like Barnes then I could see Calderon playing out his contract in Toronto. After that all bets are off. I'm sure he would enjoy playing with Pau...

I agree, he was good off the bench, but only when TJ was here. They were an excellent ying-yang. TJ For fire, speed, and wild pace. Caldy for slow handed, cautious, controlled play. But I have noticed that playing with JJ, Caldy was not as good off the bench, nary a pale shadow of his former self.

Perhaps since he had a taste of the "good life" as a starter, it would be very difficult for him to play backup on this team.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:22 AM
LBF

Quote:

ceez wrote:

I dunno about sharpshooting in the clutch, but he's def all those other things. Only issue is his awful, awful defense. If the other 4 or even 3 positions were sure defensively it would help mask his greatest defeciency but that's not the case.

jeez, never mind clutch is he ever a sharpshooter?

i know not.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:24 AM
joey_hesketh

Really? I can understand the conversation of whether or not he should be traded, but anyone that can be Top 5 assists (consistently), #1 Ast/TO (year in and year out), is one of only 5 players to EVER be in the 50-40-90 club, is absolutely a Starting PG in this league. I don't even think there should be an argument over this. There are LOTS of PGs out there with semi-questionable defense, that DON'T average a Steal per Game as Jose does, nor are they able to put up the numbers that he does with ease.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:24 AM
Apollo

Quote:

Multipaul wrote:

I agree, he was good off the bench, but only when TJ was here. They were an excellent ying-yang. TJ For fire, speed, and wild pace. Caldy for slow handed, cautious, controlled play. But I have noticed that playing with JJ, Caldy was not as good off the bench, nary a pale shadow of his former self.

Perhaps since he had a taste of the "good life" as a starter, it would be very difficult for him to play backup on this team.

I disagree with some of that. He only had one season in Toronto before TJ got here and he was battling nagging injuries in that rookie campaign. It made it difficult for him to shoot with consistency and as a result he had nothing to keep teams honest. In the times he came off the bench after TJ left he again has battle nagging injuries. I don't know what else to say besides, when he's healthy, he can be one of the very best reserve PG's in the league. His poor defense isn't as much a liability when he's squaring off against reserves. That's a big bonus.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:24 AM
Employee

I think the bottom line is that he's going to be really hard to trade unless the Raps are including some other key pieces. After this year there's still 2 more years at about $10 mill a year. Take a look at all the teams in the playoffs right now and which teams are upgrading by getting Jose? I would say none.

The PG position is getting to be the deepest position in the league. I mean it's not like their stuck with Tinsley or TJ Ford, but I really think we should all get used to the idea of having Jose for at least one more year.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:26 AM
Apollo

They almost landed Tyson Chandler in the off-season with Jose Calderon as the center piece. I think his value around the league is higher than we value him...
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:37 AM
Multipaul

Quote:

Apollo wrote:

I disagree with some of that. He only had one season in Toronto before TJ got here and he was battling nagging injuries in that rookie campaign. It made it difficult for him to shoot with consistency and as a result he had nothing to keep teams honest. In the times he came off the bench after TJ left he again has battle nagging injuries. I don't know what else to say besides, when he's healthy, he can be one of the very best reserve PG's in the league. His poor defense isn't as much a liability when he's squaring off against reserves. That's a big bonus.

Actually that's true, he did have alot of injury woes during that time.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:40 AM
Employee

Quote:

Apollo wrote:

They almost landed Tyson Chandler in the off-season with Jose Calderon as the center piece. I think his value around the league is higher than we value him...

I think you're right to some degree, but I also think the rest of the league is catching on. And the bobcats did back out and are prob happy that they did as DJ would be the preferred PG on any rebuilding team.

But yeah I see your point. It's just looking at other teams that it really doesn't make sense to make a trade for Jose. But that doesn't mean it can't happen.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 11:43 AM
Apollo

Quote:

Employee wrote:

I think you're right to some degree, but I also think the rest of the league is catching on. And the bobcats did back out and are prob happy that they did as DJ would be the preferred PG on any rebuilding team.

But yeah I see your point. It's just looking at other teams that it really doesn't make sense to make a trade for Jose. But that doesn't mean it can't happen.

The year Jose's contract was expiring there were rumors of half the league calling Colangelo about him.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 12:08 PM
Employee

Quote:

Apollo wrote:

The year Jose's contract was expiring there were rumors of half the league calling Colangelo about him.

Sorry my friend I don't really understand. You mean before it was extended? If that's the case then, yeah, I totally understand that. He was considered one of the top PG's in the league then. But things done changed.

The fact that there's still 2 years left to me means that's gonna scare a lot of teams away. But there are a whole lot of daft GM's out there. Like I said, I don't see Jose as being upgrade over any of the current playoff teams and $10 mil a year for a backup PG...I don't know man.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 12:16 PM
Apollo

Quote:

Employee wrote:

Sorry my friend I don't really understand. You mean before it was extended? If that's the case then, yeah, I totally understand that. He was considered one of the top PG's in the league then. But things done changed.

The fact that there's still 2 years left to me means that's gonna scare a lot of teams away. But there are a whole lot of daft GM's out there. Like I said, I don't see Jose as being upgrade over any of the current playoff teams and $10 mil a year for a backup PG...I don't know man.

I've given you two real examples now. You are basing your stance only on how you value him. I've shown you two examples of his perceived worth around the league. One recent and one from two years ago. I can't take this any further because there is no more information. Believe what you will but I'll stick with with the few facts I have and the notion that the league values him based on their opinion and not your opinion.
Mon Mar 14th, 2011, 12:44 PM
your mom

I really think that above all else, his stability and presence make me want to have him stick around. I like Jose/Jarryd at the 1 MUCH more than the logjam of Wright, Kleiza, Johnson, and weems at the 3. Seriously I think that position is just of much higher concern right now.

Also i'm still not too high on bayless, but we'll have to wait and see. People are forgetting that Colangelo took a shot on Bayless to be our PG of the future, and with only 3/4 of a season to see what he's got, I don't think BC will draft a PG immediately without knowing for sure Bayless is a fail.

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