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hmm Belli or should we just call him John? hah. more like john doe... I'm worried that it would mess up the rotations a bit, and well It just seems he isn't as consistant as he was earlier in the season with his quick release shot... he's gone cold for quite sometime now... If he proves me wrong its great to get that extra help from the bench and I would love to give him more minutes... I just don't think its gonna happen this late in the season though.
If the Raptors make the playoffs I think Wright is an absolute must for the starting lineup. No one on the team playing a significant role, besides Turkoglu or Amir, has the kind of playoffs experience he does.Quote:
James Ballswin (Realizar) wrote:
Reading Raptors HQ’s article, ‘All About Andrea - The Definitive Breakdown of the Raptors’ Biggest Enigma’ ( http://www.raptorshq.com/2010/5/25/1...the-definitive ) (it’s a good read) ... I got to thinking about how this team is gonna look come next season.
We’ll have to wait to see who is where and all that but ... I think it’s fairly certain that two of the important cogs in Colangelo’s mix will be Andrea Bargnani and DeMar DeRozan.
But what that made me think about is that I can’t seem to recall the two of them really playing off of each other at all. And actually, I seem to remember thinking a few times over the season, that DeMar almost pointedly did not involve Bargs in his play. (Am I remembering wrong, there? Could be, but I don’t think so.)
If I was Colangelo, I think I might dream up one or two ways to get those two guys to know each other better - a lot better - than I think they currently do. Like, have dinner together every night for a week ... and spend an hour or so every day, that same week, in the gym, just the two of them, practicing together. Or maybe send DeMar to Italy or Bargs to Compton (can you imagine?) for a week. I don’t know if teams do things like this, but it might not be as crazy as it sounds.
It’d be a good way to start things off between them for a short stretch before training camp, cuz ... I just have a feeling that if they could learn to work together, their respective talents might combine nicely ... and if they could develop any kind of on-court chemistry, it could make for a faster start next season for the both of them.
With Bosh gone (yeah, if), we’ll need some re-inventing of things as they are ... and Bargs and DeRozan might be a good place to start.
Not a bad start, but neither player ( granted, Demar being a rookie ) looked like they want to take reins of the team, both looked like they just wanted to fit in. I know DD is a rookie, but even in VCs first season, u could sense his willingness to lead the team. Bargs havent shown that at all ( could be a language problem ) and we still have to wait to see how Demar develops after a full season under his belt.
That article was a pretty good read, pretty much echoes what most people over here say about Bargs.
I think Ws511 is absolutely right that DD and Bargs need to develop better on court chemistry if they are going to be the guys we build around. I would go a step further than just making them have dinner. Make them room together throughout the season and in training camp, design several plays that put them in a two man game with each other and make them run those plays to perfection every practice, maybe even have them play two on two against a pair that already has great chemistry like Johnson and Jose. Actually that last one would be good to do anyway since both Bargs and DD suck in pick an roll situations.
The fact of the matter is, if Bosh goes and we get nothing decent, Demar and Andrea are going to be this franchise for the next couple years. Both need to improve alot and they need to learn to play well together.
Next up on TMZ:
Toronto Raptor DeMar "DeRazor" DeRozan eating fried chicken at Roscoes... again! But this time he brought a new friend along, 7 foot teammate Andrea Bargnani from Italy!
*cue Andrea coming out of Roscoes with a drumstick in one hand, a bucket of chicken in the other hand and hot sauce smeared all over his face. They both start Crip Walkin' over to Andrea's newly purchased candy apple green '64 Impala, where they both hop in, hit the switches and ride off listening to NWA's 'Dopeman'.*
Not a bad idea ws511, in fact I think I'd purchase Andrea's plane ticket out there (maybe just a one way).
Nevermind all these BoshBynum rumors, let's make it Andrea/Bynum and Bosh stays.
That's hardly a fair comparison.Quote:
RikkJames wrote:
For starters, VInce played 3 college seasons, while Demar played 1. Everyone acknowledged Demar was a bit of a project when they drafted him, and I can't recall any projects coming in and being leaders from day one.
Secondly, Vince was coming onto a team that was already bad, and lost its leading scorer from the previous season (Damon). The best offensive player on that team (in terms of scoring production) when Vince arrived was Doug Christie. Seriously! Doug Christie! Vince had no choice but to be willing to lead. That situation was particularly conducive to a star rookie coming in and taking over.
Demar, conversely, came into the exact opposite situation. This team was built to contend this year, and the rest of the roster reflected that. You have Bosh, a max player who was obviously going to get his touches. Then you have Bargs, a first overall pick himself who loves to shoot. Then you have Calderon, who has become accustomed to being a major part of the offense in the past few years. And then, of course, you have "Ball". These guys are all veterans, they're all supposed to be integral parts of our offense, and they all make upwards of $9 million a year.
You honestly expected a 19 year old surrounded those by highly paid veterans to be any type of leader? If he had tried to be he probably would have gotten laughed out of the locker room.
His game has to come along first (you can't have your "leader" averaging 10 points per game and getting lost on defense), and he has to mature a bit, and then we'll see about his leadership abilities. Even with Bargs, I think you've got to give him some time in a Bosh-free locker room to establish himself. It's unfair to say he can't lead when he's never been asked to before.
But yeah, one or both of these guys is going to have to step up from both a basketball standpoint and a leadership standpoint, because I don't see Turk doing either. Give them some time though...the leadership stuff won't happen overnight.
I agree with TM. DD has potential, but with him being 4th or 5th scoring option, he wont have the swagger yet to become a leader on this team. Same with Bargs. Everybody who watches the NBA knows Bosh is the leader of this team, of course Bargs will acknowledge that but now the Bosh is potentially gone from this team, Bargs should at least make an effort to get his voice out there, not necessarily lead the team. I might get all the WTFs but Hedo or Jack should start leading this team in terms of pushing players to stick to the system and to play hard. Hedo would be the best to do that since he has playoffs and finals experience, bu Jack has the swagger and balls to get this team in line.
Isn't that kind of what leaders do? Lead when they haven't been asked but because they know what has to be done? Isn't this what we expected out of Barg's at the end of the season when bosh was injured? It seems to me like we all asked barg's to step it up in Bosh's absence and he really didn't. I'm not saying that leadership qualities can't be groomed or even manufactured to some extent but i don't see bargs ever being a leader. BUT if it is unfair to expect him to lead without being asked, I'll do it right now:Quote:
TM Williamson wrote:
Tuesday, May the Twenty-Fifth, in the Year of Our Lord, Two Thousand and Ten
Dear Andrea Bargnani,
The Toronto Raptors fell short of our goal of going deep in the playoffs and missing out entirely is nothing short of a failure. Whether Chris Bosh wears a Raptors jersey next season or not--changes have to be made and not just in the personel but in the intangibles as well. The team needs more grit, determination, heart, backbone, effort, in short: capital "L" Leadership.
As a fan of the Toronto Raptors' "game since day one" I am taking it upon myself, on behalf of all Toronto Raptors fans everywhere, to request that you begin to demonstrate any leadership qualities you may possess and to cultivate them if you don't. I request that you begin being a leader immediately. I don't expect miracles over night but please demonstrate that you are at least trying to try. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.
Sincerely,
Shane D. Bartlett
Bargnani has not shown even ONE of these qualities. Why on earth do you think he would start displaying all of them now?Quote:
ezz_bee wrote:
I think asking Bargs to lead is a little unfair given the language barrier. If you want him to lead by example sure, but to be a vocal leader in the locker room... that role is probably better left to Jarret Jack.
Isn't Dirk Nowitzki from Germany, where they speak German? He was leading his team by year 5. Why can't The Supposed Magician?Quote:
Marz wrote:
Because Dirk speaks english well and Bargnani does not? Youtube interviews with Dirk, and then ones with Bargs. Then you'll understand my point.
Thinking about this yesterday, I hadn’t considered anything about the leadership aspects of Bargs (or DeRozan, for that matter), but ... who knows?
Maybe, if CB4 isn’t there to automatically fill that big dog role, we’ll see whatever leadership qualities Bargnani has ... and really, it won’t surprise the hell out of me if he proves to have more than he’s shown to this point.
If Bosh is gone, the dynamics definitely change enough to leave room for someone to step into some of the void that’ll be left behind. While I’m not sure how important it is to have a single defined ‘leader’ on the team (does every successful team have an actual ‘leader’, that is, not just their best player, but someone who everyone else looks to for those ‘captain of the team’ type of qualities? Some teams, for sure, but ... not so sure about some other teams), Bargnani has been around long enough now that, all things considered, he could be at least one of those guys. But ... he’d need to get -- that is, earn -- that certain kind of genuine respect as a player and a person, from others like ... DeMar DeRozan. Which is to me, at this point, somewhat questionable ... but certainly not impossible. (Hence maybe, yesterday’s post at the top of this thread.)
I’ve long felt that Bargnani’s biggest missing piece was plain old ambition. But I’ve also wondered (or sensed?) if it was more a case of something blocking some of those related-to-ambition qualities that I’ve always thought he really might have, way underneath.
For me, such is the conundrum that is Andrea Bargnani. I can’t help but be a fan (I really can’t help it), but ... the other side of that coin sometimes near infuriates me. But even yet, I still have hope that we’ve yet to see the best of what he has to offer.
I’m gonna give him one more year.
you should maybe re-read my post. It's pretty evident that i don't think bargs is/can be a leader. someone said it's unfair to say that he can't be a leader because he's never been asked. so i decided to ask him. I don't think the result will be that he actually demonstrates leadership... even non-verbal court leadership... i don't think it's in him, but hey, it can't hurt to ask! ;)Quote:
Tim W. wrote:
Because that's what happens when the franchise player leaves town...someone else steps up.Quote:
Tim W. wrote:
Not every leader is a born leader. Some people get thrust into leadership roles and develop leadership qualities as they go. As was already mentioned, I highly doubt Dirk Nowitzki came into the Dallas locker room as a young German kid and started trying to be a vocal leader. But once he was put in a leadership position, he developed traits that allowed him to become a more effective team leader. The situation a player is in is absolutely relevant to their ability as a leader. Would Chauncey Billups have been considered a leader this early in his career? No. Would Vince Carter? Probably, yeah. Who's actually the better leader?
I'm not saying Bargnani will step up and become a leader right away. I'm not even saying he ever will. There are certainly lots of things that could prevent him from becoming the type of leader we want him to be (although I'm of the opinion most of us will continue to complain about him regardless). I'm saying to write him off already is unfair to a guy who has never been put in a leadership role.
Last summer a number of people in the RR comments wrote off Sonny Weems as a player immediately once we acquired him. He had never been given the opportunity to play, so people assumed he couldn't play. In reality, he can play, and a lot of people ended up being wrong about him. Don't write people off before they've been given an opportunity...wait and see. (Before I get jumped on for this...yes, I realize it isn't a perfect comparison...it is meant to illustrate a greater point.)
True. My apologies. I guess there's no harm in asking.Quote:
ezz_bee wrote:
I think that there are certain traits that a player should exhibit if you expect him to become a leader. Quite frankly, a player that lacks the motivation and basketball IQ that Bargnani does doesn't exactly scream leader. And they generally have a forceful personality, even when young. Someone like Billups did exhibit these traits, even when he was a young, struggling player.Quote:
TM Williamson wrote:
I don't think you can say that Vince has ever shown real leadership abilities. Even when he was the best player on the team, he always let others take the lead. You don't bring a guy likely Oakley in to motivate your best player if he's a leader.
As for Sonny Weems, that's an entirely different story. How many of us had even seen Weems play or knew anything about him? It's not that he didn't exhibit any qualities that would make you believe he couldn't become a good player. We just didn't see him so couldn't make a reasonable judgement. Bargnani, on the other hand, has been on display for us for four years. Passive guys like Bargnani simply don't generally become leaders. It's not like Bargnani is a rookie. He's been in the league for four years. He's not going to change that much even if you ask him to.
Both players offensive games are too limited to play off of one another at this point.
Individual improvement/development is what needs to happen first.
He had a rookie year like that of Kobe. He is more athletic than kobe. And he has a very good work ethic.