Chad Ford Mock Draft 1.0: Raptors select Enes Kanter (Enes v Jonas starts post #139)

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charlz wrote:

Dont believe the hype - he is riding the credentials of that game. The game of his life. Did not go an play in Kentucky because he would have been exposed as inconsistent slow and under-athletic.

Did not play at all in Euro pro league last year.

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Are you kidding me? This is up there with one of the most ignorant things I've ever read.
There is so much wrong with this statement.

He did 'not go an play in Kentucky' because the NCAA ruled he received payment, and thus eliminating him from competition. He didn't go and play in the Euro-league, because he got to keep his scholarship to Kentucky, continue to train and Practice with the team, while also getting a Top Notch Education for a year. Can you blame him?

As for him being 'exposed', well thats a whole other issue. Because he exposed all those American born, college bound players pretty handely.

"He did 'not go an play in Kentucky' because the NCAA ruled he received payment, and thus eliminating him from competition. He didn't go and play in the Euro-league, because he got to keep his scholarship to Kentucky, continue to train and Practice with the team, while also getting a Top Notch Education for a year. Can you blame him?"

I think he was talking about the workouts Calpari had in Kentucky for the scouts to see the Kentucky players that entered the draft. Kanter did not participate in those for some reason; one assumes that he was ducking the competition. Makes no sense. No one will draft him if he does not come to play sometime. Scratch that, we'll draft him.
My concern about him is that he is undersized and, if I have this right, plays below the rim. Translated to the NBA, that is a shorter Hoffa. There is no way he will rebound like Reggie, and Bargnani was no good with Reggie either.

If he blows people away in tryouts, he will be a high pick. I kind of see Colangelo taking Vesey, thinking he will be a perfect 3/4 "mismatch" guy. He loves soft, tall white guys.

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EaseMyPain wrote:

My concern about him is that he is undersized and, if I have this right, plays below the rim. Translated to the NBA, that is a shorter Hoffa. There is no way he will rebound like Reggie, and Bargnani was no good with Reggie either.

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What is 'undersized' about 6'11", 260lbs? And I'm not sure what you mean by 'below the rim' .. he is VERY athletic and very frequently dunks it on guys. Sorry to say, but I don't think you've really done enough homework on this guy. He's nothing like Hoffa, Reggie or Bargnani.

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EaseMyPain wrote:

I kind of see Colangelo taking Vesey, thinking he will be a perfect 3/4 "mismatch" guy. He loves soft, tall white guys.

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That has to be a shot at Bargnani, as I'm not sure who else would fall into that catergory.
We've yet to hear anything about BC being interested in Vesely.


ADD And VERY few people rebound like Reggie. Hence why he was ranked among the Top 5 in most/ALL Statistical Catergories for Rebounding in the entire league.

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meductic wrote:

Kanter has always been billed as a low post banger with a nice touch and good basketball sense /awareness. By now he should both know his role and be comfortable with it. Of the big three Ford and NBA Draft.net have him third, well Draft Express has Valanciunas there with Kanter at 7th. The main knocks appear to be his knees, the year off, a lack of athleticism and a bit undersized. But he is broad and a beast. Bargnani it aint. More polished then either Valanciunas or Biyombo, who are both viewed as less NBA ready. There are also questions about Biyombo's age and Valanciunas's current contract. Kanter is not a sure thing, but there appear to be lots of PG's and SF's in the 2012 draft with still few Centres showing. If given a chance it looks like one must take either Irving or Williams. But after them it is very iffy, and Kanter makes sense on a lot of levels, especially if one can line up a couple of early 2012 picks, or trade for the other needed components.

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There is no doubt that Enes has the size and strength to be that low post presence the Raptors are looking for. On the Wildcats official site six months ago he was 260lbs and I've read a report that says he's 270 now. The more I've read about him the more impressed I've become. I listened to an interview Coach Cal did for Turkish TV about Enes and he raves about him as a player and as a person. He was born in Switzerland when his father was there studying medicine and he's got some of his dads smarts.
Enes describes himself as a power forward who can play center because of his size. [search Enes Kanter power forward] He has spent a lot of time this past season working on his 3 point shooting and has improved his jump shot. If the role the Raptors are looking to fill is a center who primarily plays under the basket it could be like trying to pound a square peg in a round hole. That being said Enes is very intriguing for the Raptors who need help at the five.
His knee problems were almost three years ago [he had surgery] and there hasn't been a problem that has effected his play since.

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charlz wrote:

Dont believe the hype - he is riding the credentials of that game. The game of his life. Did not go an play in Kentucky because he would have been exposed as inconsistent slow and under-athletic.

Did not play at all in Euro pro league last year.

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Just out of interest, where is your evidence for this? Or os this just your opinion?

If you're referring to the workouts, loads of top players keep away from things like that. You want to blame someone, blame his agent. And he didn't play in Europe last year because he didn't find out until January that his appeal was denied by the NCAA. A little late to hop on a European team. And he was getting good coaching at Kentucky, even if he wasn't playing.

You obviously don't like him, but I get the feeling it's not based on anything factual.

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EaseMyPain wrote:

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I think he was talking about the workouts Calpari had in Kentucky for the scouts to see the Kentucky players that entered the draft. Kanter did not participate in those for some reason; one assumes that he was ducking the competition. Makes no sense. No one will draft him if he does not come to play sometime. Scratch that, we'll draft him.
My concern about him is that he is undersized and, if I have this right, plays below the rim. Translated to the NBA, that is a shorter Hoffa. There is no way he will rebound like Reggie, and Bargnani was no good with Reggie either..

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It's very comment that top pick don't workout with other ppl. Their agents tell them not too. DeMar and ED did the same thing. ED didnt even workout for us. DeMar had a solo workout with just the coaches and GM's

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EaseMyPain wrote:

"He did 'not go an play in Kentucky' because the NCAA ruled he received payment, and thus eliminating him from competition. He didn't go and play in the Euro-league, because he got to keep his scholarship to Kentucky, continue to train and Practice with the team, while also getting a Top Notch Education for a year. Can you blame him?"

I think he was talking about the workouts Calpari had in Kentucky for the scouts to see the Kentucky players that entered the draft. Kanter did not participate in those for some reason; one assumes that he was ducking the competition. Makes no sense. No one will draft him if he does not come to play sometime. Scratch that, we'll draft him.
My concern about him is that he is undersized and, if I have this right, plays below the rim. Translated to the NBA, that is a shorter Hoffa. There is no way he will rebound like Reggie, and Bargnani was no good with Reggie either.

If he blows people away in tryouts, he will be a high pick. I kind of see Colangelo taking Vesey, thinking he will be a perfect 3/4 "mismatch" guy. He loves soft, tall white guys.

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If the criteria is will he play well with Bargs then you are probably right. But unless there is a drastic change in Andrea it is a test that arguably very few players would pass, if any. However there are two other bigs on the team he would probably complement quite nicely. The Bargs issue is for another thread. As stated above Kanter is expected to work out for highly positioned teams after the ping pong balls drop. It is a pick not without risk, but depending on his physical maybe less risk than the alternatives after the first 2 picks are made.

His vertical scares the crap out of me...he plays way below the rim...I just can't see him finishing in traffic like that in the nba.

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charlz wrote:

Dont believe the hype - he is riding the credentials of that game. The game of his life. Did not go an play in Kentucky because he would have been exposed as inconsistent slow and under-athletic.

Did not play at all in Euro pro league last year.

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You're pulling this out of thin air and you're not even doing a good job of it seeing how it doesn't make any sense. Such a play could equally lead to him not getting drafted in the first round or all together had he not played extremely well during the opportunities where people did get to see him play ball.

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mattscottnelson wrote:

His vertical scares the crap out of me...he plays way below the rim...I just can't see him finishing in traffic like that in the nba.

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He's not Allen Iverson, why does he need to finish in traffic? He's a big man who has lots of moves down low in the post. He also has a face up shot. Why does he need a vertical?

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EaseMyPain wrote:

My concern about him is that he is undersized and, if I have this right, plays below the rim. Translated to the NBA, that is a shorter Hoffa.

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The following from reputable, experienced people in the industry:

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Bigman with excellent size, strength and polish … Combines brute strength with a high skill level … Soft hands … Long arms and solid athleticism allow him to be a force in the paint … A tremendous rebounder. Plays with a high motor and enjoys contact … Has a strong frame and a high basketball IQ … Has a scorers mentality. Owns a diverse offensive game with the ability to use post moves and strength to score on his opponent or face the basket and knock down mind-range jumpshots … Has the strength to muscle through contact and finish … Smooth offensive game. Has a soft touch and excellent shooting motion … Good free throw shooter … Has legitimate center size. Measured 6-11, 261 lbs at the LeBron James Skills Academy in July … Possesses great dexterity and body control for a bigman … Coachable kid with a positive attitude and strong work ethic …

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Source: NBAdraft.net

His touch and way he finishes around the rim reminds me of Zach Randolph. High praise.

The more and more I read and see of him the more I'm sold on him. Pair him up front with Davis and that's a meeeeean front court.

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Apollo wrote:

He's not Allen Iverson, why does he need to finish in traffic? He's a big man who has lots of moves down low in the post. He also has a face up shot. Why does he need a vertical?

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???Bigs always finish in traffic - it's where they live...the clips we've seen are him finishing on highschool bigs and it seems like he hardly creates space...I see him being blocked at the rim a lot. The game is changing, wiry athletic bigs who can run are the new mold....

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EaseMyPain wrote:

If he blows people away in tryouts, he will be a high pick. I kind of see Colangelo taking Vesey, thinking he will be a perfect 3/4 "mismatch" guy. He loves soft, tall white guys.

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Like Ed Davis, DeRozan, Amare, Shawn Marion and all those other soft, tall white guys he's drafted over the years? If he does it once, it must be a rule, right?

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mattscottnelson wrote:

???Bigs always finish in traffic - it's where they live...the clips we've seen are him finishing on highschool bigs and it seems like he hardly creates space...

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I personally, think is incorrect. He's played professionally for years in Europe and 'finishes' on them, quite readily. Did you not read the scouting report Apollo just posted?

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"Combines brute Strength with High Skill Level"

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"Enjoys Contact"

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"Has a strong frame and a high basketball IQ"

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"Long arms and solid athleticism allow him to be a force in the paint"

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"Tremendous Rebounder".

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Again, I'm not sure alot of the people criticizing him have actually done a sufficient amount of homework on this kid. He would have been the #1 pick had he not been disqualified from NCAA.

My big concern with Kanter is with his defense. Basically, there seems to be a deafening silence in this regard, other than scattered fragments here and there. I'm not saying he's a bad defender, I'm just saying I don't know because no one has anything to say.

I have no doubts that he will be a pretty good to excellent offensive C, whether early on or down the line. But there's also Valanciunas, who is an equally intriguing option: for all the talk of Kanter's offensive skills, you hear the same about Valanciunas' defense. Kanter is definitely the safer option, I would think, as he seems to have the fundamentals down and it's through these that he succeeds (Ed Davis style). Valanciunas - albeit I don't have much to back this up - seems to be successful due to his motor, drive and tenacity (Javale McGee style), which leads me to think he's the bigger gamble, but if he learns the fundamentals could have the bigger payoff. I don't know which I'd prefer, but one of the values - if not the greatest value - of having BC as the GM is that no matter who he decides to choose, I have complete confidence that he will have likely chosen the better player. One thing I will say is that it's quite possible and indeed likely that if Kanter had played this season he could easily have been the consensus #1. I think it's possible he's that good (that, and centers seem to be locks for 1st overall: in the past 30 years more than half of all 1st picks have been Cs).

It also says a lot about this draft that 2 of the 3 top picks are players who basically played no ball at all this past season.

What I want is to have the Raps bring both Kanter and Valanciunas in for workouts together and have them square off. That'd be something the details of which would be worth reading about.

He's awesome, would be great, maybe we can upgrade our guards by trading Andrea. We're probably not gonna get a good guard through the draft.

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mattscottnelson wrote:

???Bigs always finish in traffic - it's where they live...the clips we've seen are him finishing on highschool bigs and it seems like he hardly creates space...I see him being blocked at the rim a lot. The game is changing, wiry athletic bigs who can run are the new mold....

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No they don't. That's why outside of Dwight Howard you only see two other centers in the top 50 for FTA. Most centers are either a back to the bucket, pull a move or two and make the attempt kind of players or they're catch and shoot face up kind of players. Very few are able to penetrate and finish in traffic. Bargnani is a good example of one who is good at it. Kanter is not that kind of guy. He is a low post player who can hit the face up jumper. I don't consider scoring with your back to the bucket down low in the post "finishing in traffic" because it doesn't typically entail that unless the guy demands help on him. I consider finishing in traffic players guys who face up, penetrate and finish with multiple defenders trying to make a play on them. Those kinds of guys typically get to the line often. I'm talking about the LeBron's, Wade's and Durant's of the league. Dwight is the only center in the league that gets there a lot. It's because guys can't handle this athleticism more than anything.

Even if you disagree with my view on what should be considered "finishing in traffic", the scouting report on him says it in black and white, he "Has the strength to muscle through contact and finish … Smooth offensive game. Has a soft touch and excellent shooting motion"

I find it entertaining when people say so-and-so doesn't have the size to play C in the NBA, he's only 6'11". So if he's 7 ft he does have the size? Even if he's 30 lbs lighter? Just so everyone is clear - 12 inches in a foot.

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joey_hesketh wrote:

So Sullinger isn't as Developed or Experienced as Kanter, that's all that says.
Kanter is younger, bigger and arguably more athletic. As has been pointed out, if Kanter had played for Kentucky this year, he'd likely be the Top pick in the this Years draft.

ADD I posted this in the Draft Sticky, but: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YzbhAQGPqk

And this is hardly a case of Men Against Boys. Just because Kanter has been playing Professionally, doesn't take away from the fact that he was able to seperate himself from the literal 'Men', even when he was 17.

Just because Jennings played in Europe Professionally before the NBA doesn't mean he's all of a sudden got more ability, or an added advantage.

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Exactly, which is saying a lot and could mean a lot as some are placing a large emphasis on that particular all-star game that he went off.

If Kanter played for Kentucky he might have well been considered for the top pick in this draft or he might have fallen as scouts can determine his weaknesses better. It's a stretch to assume that if he had of played that he would have performed to be top pick status. Not saying it's not possible but definitely not a given.

And playing against men in a professional league does give you an advantage. While the players in the league might not be as talented as a Div 1 power conference teams your playing against experienced professional basketball players. Not sure how that isn't a significant advantage in his development especially when matched up against more inexeprienced players who are still getting coached up and might not understand the nuances of the game.

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Apollo wrote:

I think Kanter is younger than him. Let me try and understand this, Kanter gets a knock because he was able crush Sullinger AND he's been able to battle against grown men while only being a kid? Who's side of the debate are you on again? ;)

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Lol, all I was saying is that much emphasis has been placed on that one Hoop Summitt game but I feel like Kaneter was in a better position to do well cause his game was probably more advanced. I'm not a big Sullinger fan btw, and I'm not syaing that Enes can't be a good player either I just take the HS all-star circuit games with a grain of salt. I try and follow these reults very closely every year and no doubt his performance was significant I just think his game and comfort level might have been much farther along at that point in time.

Bottom line, if he works out well and the knees are good and he has developed his game he's a top 3 pick in this draft, perhaps top 2, I just am a little leary of putting too much emphasis on a great showing at the Hoops Summit.