Battier is 32. How's that contract going to look in two years?Quote:
planetmars wrote:
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Battier is 32. How's that contract going to look in two years?Quote:
planetmars wrote:
Battier is 33; after five years he'll be 38 in his last year and still on the payroll. Right now there are only about 15/20 guys over 36 in the league and maybe half of them play significant mintues. Bad plan signing him on a long contract.Quote:
planetmars wrote:
Ray Allen is 36 and Steve Nash is 37.. yet these guys are still playing strong, and would probably play for a few more years.
When Battier is 35/36/37, we'll be contenders. In the meantime he's earning his keep by helping change the culture of our team into a gritty defensive team.. the kind you need to be a contender.
The age doesn't matter as much to me I guess.. considering the type of talent I'm getting back. I just think that the knowledge that a lot of NBA players (and athletes in general) have to help have a long lasting career shouldn't make someone who's 32 now going into his last contract a bad thing, especially one that seems to be one of the smartest players in the league.
Ray Allen and Steve Nash are exceptions to the rule. Is it best plan the future based on rare occurrences or is it best to plan the future based on the norm?
I actually think those rare occurrences are becoming the norm based on the improvements in training, diet and nutrition programs.. but you have to look at each individual athlete and their track record to see which slot they would fit in. Battier in my opinion is more like Allen and Nash then what you would consider the norm. He doesn't have that many nba games under his belt since he came in as a senior - he has a very strong IQ and is considered one of the smartest guys in the league.Quote:
Apollo wrote:
It's the risk takers that end up on top though, not the guys that do what everyone else does. Can you name me another player like Battier who is younger and worth about $5 million or less? Even in two years time, I can't think of someone like that - someone who wants to guard the Lebron's, Wade's, or Carmelo's of the league, do a heck of a job, not complain afterwards, and help train the young guys on the team how to do the same thing he just did.
Just like Nash would be a great mentor for a future PG.. Battier could be that mentor for our wings.
I'd need to see proof of that. There's a difference between collecting a pay cheque and playing at a high level. Steve Nash and Ray Allen have been playing at a high level... Well Allen was up to last season. He's regressing rapidly.
An important note that didn't immediately "click" is the Raptors can't offer five years.
If it was becoming the norm there would be more players over 36 in the league, it's less than 0,5%...Quote:
planetmars wrote:
Nash is a 2-x mvp, 7x allstar; Pierce is a finals mvp, 9x allstar; Allen is a 10x allstar. If you're that good, you can drop a level and still be better than a lot of other players. Battier has no allstar appearances; all he has is 2x all-defense 2nd team. What's worse, he relies heavily on defense for his game and defense gives way earlier because of the loss of athleticism.
Nevertheless I would not be opposed to getting Battier to help instilling a defensive mindset and on court coaching of the other players, but I would only want him on a short term contract so he won't be on the payroll when we need the flexibility and he won't bring much to the team anymore. Also, you seem to think he would want to play here for 5 mill or less, which I highly doubt.
One last note: is there any proof that Nash is a great mentor? He makes other players look better on the court with his play, but has he helped any pg becoming a better pg?
Source: Sun-SentinelQuote:
MIAMI— An expected windfall for NBA contending teams in search of affordable talent could wind up short-circuited by the league's soon-to-be-approved collective-bargaining agreement.
The Sun Sentinel confirmed Sunday that instead of players being released under the league's "amnesty" provision going directly to the open market, a bidding system has been put in place for teams operating below the league's salary cap to add such players at a deep discount.
"That's what the clause is in there for," a party familiar with the impending process Sunday told the Sun Sentinel. "It's so the Lakers can't go in and scoop up all the players."
Under the amnesty program, a team can waive a player in order to remove his salary from its salary cap and luxury tax, while still paying out the balance of that contract. It had been widely assumed that such players then would immediately hit the open market.
That could have positioned the Miami Heat to add players such as Baron Davis, Rashard Lewis, Brendan Haywood or Brandon Roy at the NBA salary minimum, with the players' previous teams still paying their full salaries. (Team-by-team decisions on specific players, if any, to receive amnesty releases will not be announced until after the CBA is ratified.)
However, in an outline of the proposed collective-bargaining agreement obtained by the Sun Sentinel, the NBA instead has instituted "a modified waiver process" that would allow teams operating below the salary cap to "submit competing offers to assume some but not all of the player's remaining contract."
For example, while Lewis has two years at $44 million total remaining on his contract, a team currently operating below the salary cap could bid to pay Lewis $3 million in each of those years (with the Washington Wizards, who are expected to make Lewis available, then paying the balance of his salary).
"Some of it is still not 100-percent worked out," a party familiar with the impending policy told the Sun Sentinel.
Under the about-to-be-rubber-stamped program, teams such as the Heat and Lakers that are operating well above the salary cap would therefore be precluded from bidding on such players, able to move only on amnesty players who receive no partial bids in the waiver process. For the Heat, it would be a blow in the bid to add depth around LeBron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh.
For teams currently operating well below the cap, such as the Denver Nuggets, Sacramento Kings, Indiana Pacers, Memphis Grizzlies, New Jersey Nets, Washington Wizards and New Orleans Hornets, it could provide a pennies-on-the-dollar windfall.
"This just makes it more attractive or appealing for a team to pick up a contract on waivers, because they're obviously not paying the whole thing, they're only going to be paying the part that they bid on," another party involved in finalizing the process told the Sun Sentinel.
"The notion has been, unlike last time (after the 1998-99 lockout), where you have a Michael Finley, who picks the team of his choice, collects his money, and goes to the team of his choice for a million dollars, that there's going to be a secondary-bidding process. It's going to be no different than being traded."
Because of the revised process, players who had expected an amnesty release to lead to the ability to sign with the team of their choice -- with Heat forward Mike Miller possibly to be included in such a group -- could instead find themselves forced to join small-market, small-payroll teams who have ample available salary-cap space.
The next few weeks are going to be FANtastic.
Wow, this stipulation is going to make it really difficult for the high spenders to cash in big on the amnesty cuts. I like it.
I hope the Raptors can get lucky here and put a 'bid' in on a useful player under contract for a few years, dirt cheap. Marvin Williams immediately comes to mind but I'd imagine: 1) other teams would be interested in him cheap too, and 2) it would essentially end the stay of JJ or Kleiza.Quote:
Apollo wrote:
This assumes he is cut of course.
I like this.Quote:
Matt52 wrote:
This is HUGE news! And it completely opens the floodgates on what Colangelo can do to improve the roster now...rather than waiting another season.
I think that's a great idea on the nba's part, should really help increase parity.
On the other hand, I'm now completely terrified that BC is going to open the purse strings far too wide.
Last year, there were ten players in the league who were 35 or over and who played at least 20 mpg. And only Anthony Parker, Derek Fisher and Kurt Thomas weren't former All-Stars, meaning EXTREMELY talented. Parker wouldn't have played that on a good team, Thomas only played that because of Noah's injury and there was a lot of debate whether Fisher's presence on the floor hurt the team more than it helped because he was simply too old to defend his position.Quote:
planetmars wrote:
It may seem like more the norm because most of those older players are high profile, so you notice them more.
It's not that it won't be so bad in 3 or 4 years (although it very well might be if he's declined a lot) but the money you're spending on him might be better spent next summer on a younger free agent who will be productive longer or in a trade to bring in a bigger contract. By spending it on Battier, you're not using the money well because he's not going to have a big impact on the team when you need it most; when they're hopefully contending.
Now I am a huge fan of Battier and would have loved to have gotten him 5+ years ago, but not now. The amount of money it would take make him choose Toronto over one of the contenders that will be trying to get his services is not worth it. And the funny thing is that Kleiza, who you suggest amnesty-ing, will probably be more productive than Battier will in five years.
Rashard Lewis or Brandon Roy would be the best case scenarios. A highly banged up Brandon Roy at a fraction of the cost sounds like a good deal to me. Travis Outlaw would make a lot of sense.Quote:
Matt52 wrote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/28/sp...ref=basketball
Beck at NYTimes.com reporting few teams likely to avail of amnesty clause.
I disagree with this writer. Last round of amnesty teams didn't pull the trigger because the money still counted against the cap. Now this time around the money won't count against the cap. The amnesty clause isn't about getting rid of an obligation, it's about lessening the obligation and removing the obligation for the cap number. Teams won't have to pay a lump sum to the player. They will honor the contract as is, less any compensation the player gets should some team choose to claim him before he clears waivers. A team like the Blazers for example, who have a billionaire owner in Paul Allen, can afford to cut ties with Brandon Roy. Doing so would help revitalize their chances of getting back on track and avoiding tax penalties in the future. This is addition by subtraction.
Judging by the article Beck talked to one guy. Did this one guy survey the league?
A good question.Quote:
Apollo wrote:
What is the likelihood of a high IQ player who understands his role and does not depend on his athletism to remain effective as a 34 through 37 years old?
I would not bet against it.
Having said that, I doubt Toronto is a desirable destination for Battier at this stage of his career.
I don't think thats true at all. Older vets may not be at their peak athleticism any longer, but they make up for that in experience.Quote:
What's worse, he relies heavily on defense for his game and defense gives way earlier because of the loss of athleticism.
Its those guys who's entire game was based on athleticism in the first place that give way the most at an older age (whether on D or O), not the guys whose game was based on IQ.
(this is not a statement that the Raps should sign Battier)
I would because he's not working out physics problems on a chalk board. He's playing basketball and a lot of what he does is on defense. You're selling his athletic abilities short in my opinion. I think you're understating the impact that has on his game. IQ is important but he's not just getting it done with brain power.