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Never heard about Aldridge's back problems at the time. Would absolutely love to acquire Gay and believe he is a franchise player you can build a team around. People have to remember that DD & Ed came into the league as projects with high ceilings. They came with the label patience required: In time they should turn out to be pleasant surprises!Quote:
MangoKid wrote:
Haha a bit John Henson love?
I read an article, about a year ago that BC has the best draft record of any current GM based on players performance versus other players drafted at that number. I tried to find the article but the best I could do was this article from 82games.com which ranked the franchises over the last 20 years
Interesting read, and the Suns are ranked number 2
Not entirely sure but I believe most of these guys were Coangelo picks.Quote:
Then you have the Suns who sparkle with their star picks -- Amare (a #9), Marion (#9), Nash (#15), Finley (#21), Stephen Jackson (#42), and Cedric Ceballos (#48).
Just in case you are curious, as a franchise the raps were ranked 26th... eeeep!
SOURCE
Here's an interesting piece as well document best and worst value
Quote:
Best Value Picks 1989-2008 Career Stats vs. Expected Perf.
Player Season Pick G Min PTS REB AST RTG G Min PTS REB AST RTG
Gilbert Arenas 2001 30 431 37.4 22.8 4.2 5.5 32.5 +181 +23.3 +17.6 +1.6 +4.4 +23.6
Carlos Boozer 2002 34 407 32.5 17.0 10.0 2.4 29.4 +270 +19.8 +12.7 +7.9 +1.2 +21.8
Dino Radja 1989 40 224 32.6 16.7 8.4 1.6 26.7 +90 +21.1 +12.4 +6.7 +0.6 +19.7
Kobe Bryant 1996 13 909 36.4 25.0 5.3 4.6 34.9 +462 +13.7 +15.2 +1.6 +2.7 +19.5
Michael Redd 2000 43 550 34.0 20.5 4.1 2.3 26.9 +322 +21.2 +15.6 +2.0 +1.5 +19.0
Manu Ginobili 1999 57 465 27.7 14.7 4.0 3.6 22.3 +422 +22.6 +12.8 +3.0 +3.1 +19.0
Rashard Lewis 1998 32 741 34.5 16.9 5.8 1.8 24.5 +589 +22.8 +12.9 +4.2 +0.8 +17.9
Dirk Nowitzki 1998 9 801 36.5 22.6 8.6 2.7 33.9 +341 +13.4 +12.4 +3.7 +1.1 +17.3
Stephen Jackson 1997 42 575 32.2 15.2 3.8 3.0 22.0 +459 +23.5 +12.1 +2.3 +2.3 +16.7
Cuttino Mobley 1998 41 747 37.0 16.0 3.9 2.7 22.6 +598 +26.9 +12.4 +2.1 +2.0 +16.6
Paul Pierce 1998 10 778 37.5 22.9 6.3 3.9 33.1 +281 +12.9 +12.7 +1.9 +1.7 +16.4
Tony Parker 2001 28 574 33.1 16.2 3.1 5.5 24.8 +324 +19.8 +11.1 +1.2 +4.1 +16.4
Tracy McGrady 1997 9 778 35.0 22.1 6.1 4.7 32.9 +318 +11.9 +11.9 +1.2 +3.1 +16.3
Zach Randolph 2001 19 481 29.9 16.6 8.3 1.6 26.5 +201 +13.4 +10.1 +5.4 +0.6 +16.1
Josh Howard 2003 29 375 32.1 15.4 6.3 1.7 23.4 +115 +20.0 +11.3 +4.0 +0.9 +16.1
Monta Ellis 2005 40 209 31.8 15.7 3.6 3.4 22.7 +75 +20.3 +11.4 +1.9 +2.4 +15.7
Tim Hardaway 1989 14 867 35.3 17.7 3.3 8.2 29.2 +555 +14.2 +8.9 +0.3 +6.3 +15.5
Clifford Robinson 1989 36 1380 30.8 14.2 4.6 2.2 21.0 +1240 +22.0 +10.8 +3.1 +1.5 +15.5
Cedric Ceballos 1990 48 609 24.2 14.3 5.3 1.2 20.8 +506 +15.2 +11.1 +3.3 +0.8 +15.2
Luis Scola 2002 55 127 26.1 10.9 6.9 1.3 19.1 +70 +19.3 +8.6 +5.6 +0.9 +15.1
Dwyane Wade 2003 5 357 37.8 24.5 4.9 6.6 36.0 -195 +9.1 +11.1 +0.0 +3.9 +14.9
Amare Stoudemire 2002 9 423 34.2 21.0 8.9 1.4 31.3 -37 +11.1 +10.8 +4.0 -0.2 +14.7
Ryan Gomes 2005 50 258 28.5 11.0 5.3 1.5 17.8 +209 +23.0 +9.0 +4.3 +1.2 +14.6
Kevin Garnett 1995 5 1043 37.7 20.2 11.1 4.3 35.6 +491 +9.0 +6.8 +6.2 +1.6 +14.5
Steve Nash 1996 15 898 31.0 14.3 3.0 7.9 25.2 +550 +13.6 +7.7 +0.1 +6.5 +14.4
Marc Gasol 2007 48 43 30.4 11.1 7.3 1.6 20.0 -60 +21.4 +7.9 +5.3 +1.2 +14.4
Nick Van Exel 1993 37 880 32.9 14.4 2.9 6.6 23.9 +641 +17.9 +8.7 +0.4 +5.2 +14.3
LeBron James 2003 1 433 40.8 27.4 6.9 6.6 40.9 -122 +7.9 +10.8 -0.9 +3.9 +13.9
Zydrunas Ilgauskas 1996 20 670 29.0 14.5 7.9 1.3 23.7 +417 +12.2 +8.3 +5.2 +0.0 +13.5
Shawn Marion 1999 9 712 37.7 18.0 10.0 2.0 30.0 +252 +14.6 +7.8 +5.1 +0.4 +13.4
Latrell Sprewell 1992 24 913 38.6 18.3 4.1 4.0 26.4 +563 +18.0 +10.4 +1.1 +1.9 +13.4
Ramon Sessions 2007 56 61 24.1 9.5 3.0 5.2 17.7 +10 +17.2 +7.2 +1.7 +4.6 +13.4
Al Jefferson 2004 15 323 27.5 14.6 8.4 1.0 24.0 -25 +10.1 +8.0 +5.5 -0.4 +13.2
Maurice Williams 2003 47 371 29.2 13.0 3.1 4.8 20.9 +226 +17.0 +8.4 +1.1 +3.6 +13.1
Vlade Divac 1989 26 1134 29.8 11.8 8.2 3.1 23.1 +886 +14.0 +5.8 +5.4 +1.8 +13.0
Mehmet Okur 2001 37 496 29.3 13.7 7.2 1.7 22.6 +257 +14.3 +8.0 +4.7 +0.3 +13.0
Mookie Blaylock 1989 12 889 34.9 13.5 4.1 6.7 24.3 +517 +16.1 +6.9 +0.4 +5.4 +12.7
Rafer Alston 1998 39 581 29.0 10.2 2.9 4.9 18.0 +435 +19.6 +7.0 +1.7 +3.9 +12.6
Ron Artest 1999 16 567 34.8 16.0 5.1 3.1 24.2 +203 +16.6 +8.8 +2.3 +1.5 +12.5
David West 2003 18 340 30.0 14.6 6.9 1.6 23.1 +23 +12.6 +8.0 +3.8 +0.7 +12.4
Vince Carter 1998 5 741 37.7 23.7 5.5 4.2 33.4 +189 +9.0 +10.3 +0.6 +1.5 +12.3
Brandon Roy 2006 6 170 36.8 19.1 4.6 5.1 28.8 -236 +11.4 +8.9 +0.0 +3.4 +12.3
Antoine Walker 1996 6 893 35.3 17.5 7.7 3.5 28.7 +487 +9.9 +7.3 +3.1 +1.8 +12.2
Al Harrington 1998 25 690 29.6 13.4 5.8 1.8 21.0 +472 +15.0 +8.2 +3.1 +0.9 +12.2
Toni Kukoc 1990 29 846 26.3 11.6 4.2 3.7 19.5 +586 +14.2 +7.5 +1.9 +2.9 +12.2
Shaquille O'Neal 1992 1 1077 36.0 25.0 11.4 2.6 39.0 +522 +3.1 +8.4 +3.6 -0.1 +12.0
Voshon Lenard 1994 46 565 27.2 11.9 2.8 2.1 16.8 +496 +19.2 +9.0 +1.4 +1.6 +12.0
Sam Cassell 1993 24 993 30.0 15.7 3.2 6.0 24.9 +643 +9.4 +7.8 +0.2 +3.9 +11.9
Jamaal Tinsley 2001 27 398 30.2 10.4 3.4 7.0 20.8 +105 +14.7 +5.1 +0.5 +5.8 +11.4
Kevin Martin 2004 26 281 29.4 16.1 3.6 1.7 21.4 +33 +13.6 +10.1 +0.8 +0.4 +11.3
My apologies for the wall of text. An eye friendly format can be found at the sourceQuote:
Worst Value Picks 1989-2008 Career Stats vs. Expected Perf.
Player Season Pick G Min PTS REB AST RTG G Min PTS REB AST RTG
Nikoloz Tskitishvili 2002 5 172 11.3 2.9 1.8 0.7 5.4 -380 -17.4 -10.5 -3.1 -2.0 -15.7
Patrick O'Bryant 2006 9 63 5.0 1.7 1.3 0.3 3.3 -397 -18.1 -8.5 -3.6 -1.3 -13.3
Kwame Brown 2001 1 435 23.0 7.2 5.5 1.1 13.8 -120 -9.9 -9.4 -2.3 -1.6 -13.2
Saer Sene 2006 10 46 5.5 2.2 1.5 0.0 3.7 -451 -19.1 -8.0 -2.9 -2.2 -13.0
Serge Ibaka 2008 24 0 -350 -20.6 -7.9 -3.0 -2.1 -13.0
Jonathan Bender 1999 5 237 15.0 5.6 2.2 0.6 8.4 -315 -13.7 -7.8 -2.7 -2.1 -12.7
Fran Vasquez 2005 11 0 -389 -19.4 -7.5 -3.5 -1.4 -12.4
Shelden Williams 2006 5 167 14.9 4.7 4.2 0.4 9.3 -385 -13.8 -8.7 -0.7 -2.3 -11.8
Michael Olowokandi 1998 1 500 26.3 8.3 6.8 0.7 15.8 -55 -6.6 -8.3 -1.0 -2.0 -11.2
Darko Milicic 2003 2 305 17.6 5.6 4.1 0.7 10.4 -278 -12.0 -7.3 -1.8 -2.1 -11.2
Luke Jackson 2004 10 73 9.9 3.5 1.2 0.8 5.5 -424 -14.7 -6.7 -3.2 -1.4 -11.2
Pavel Podkolzine 2004 21 6 4.7 0.7 1.5 0.0 2.2 -378 -16.1 -7.1 -1.8 -1.9 -10.9
Frederic Weis 1999 15 0 -348 -17.4 -6.6 -2.9 -1.4 -10.8
Greg Oden 2007 1 37 23.2 8.6 7.2 0.7 16.5 -518 -9.7 -8.0 -0.6 -2.0 -10.5
Danny Ferry 1989 2 917 19.8 7.0 2.8 1.3 11.1 +334 -9.8 -5.9 -3.1 -1.5 -10.5
Rich King 1991 14 72 4.3 1.9 1.0 0.3 3.2 -240 -16.8 -6.9 -2.0 -1.6 -10.5
Joseph Forte 2001 21 25 5.0 1.2 0.7 0.7 2.6 -359 -15.8 -6.6 -2.6 -1.2 -10.5
Andrea Bargnani 2006 1 189 25.6 11.5 4.1 1.0 16.6 -366 -7.3 -5.1 -3.7 -1.7 -10.4
Tyrus Thomas 2006 4 188 17.5 6.6 4.4 0.9 11.9 -397 -13.0 -7.1 -1.1 -2.2 -10.3
Adam Morrison 2006 3 117 24.8 9.4 2.5 1.7 13.6 -418 -7.1 -5.8 -2.6 -1.8 -10.2
Marcus Haislip 2002 13 79 10.3 3.6 1.5 0.2 5.3 -368 -12.4 -6.2 -2.2 -1.7 -10.1
Bobby Hurley 1993 7 269 15.5 3.8 1.1 3.3 8.2 -214 -11.3 -7.1 -3.2 +0.7 -9.6
Yaroslav Korolev 2005 12 34 4.9 1.1 0.5 0.4 2.0 -338 -13.9 -5.5 -3.2 -0.9 -9.6
Scott Haskin 1993 14 27 6.9 2.0 2.0 0.2 4.2 -285 -14.2 -6.8 -1.0 -1.7 -9.5
Pervis Ellison 1989 1 474 24.5 9.5 6.7 1.5 17.7 -81 -8.4 -7.1 -1.1 -1.2 -9.3
Rafael Araujo 2004 8 139 11.4 2.8 2.8 0.3 5.9 -258 -11.5 -6.5 -1.1 -1.6 -9.3
Dontae Jones 1996 21 15 6.1 2.9 0.6 0.3 3.8 -369 -14.7 -4.9 -2.7 -1.6 -9.3
Kirk Haston 2001 16 27 5.0 1.2 1.0 0.3 2.5 -337 -13.2 -6.0 -1.8 -1.3 -9.2
Julian Wright 2007 13 77 10.7 3.7 1.9 0.7 6.3 -370 -12.0 -6.1 -1.8 -1.2 -9.1
Casey Shaw 1998 37 9 1.6 0.2 0.3 0.0 0.5 -230 -13.4 -5.5 -2.2 -1.4 -9.1
Antonio Daniels 1997 4 825 23.2 7.8 1.9 3.5 13.2 +240 -7.3 -5.9 -3.6 +0.4 -9.0
Yinka Dare 1994 14 110 9.1 2.1 2.6 0.0 4.7 -202 -12.0 -6.7 -0.4 -1.9 -9.0
Efthimi Rentzias 1996 23 35 4.1 1.5 0.7 0.2 2.4 -333 -15.3 -5.3 -2.4 -1.2 -9.0
William Avery 1999 14 142 8.5 2.7 0.7 1.4 4.8 -170 -12.6 -6.1 -2.3 -0.5 -8.9
Mark Sanford 1997 30 0 -250 -14.1 -5.2 -2.6 -1.1 -8.9
Joel Freeland 2006 30 0 -250 -14.1 -5.2 -2.6 -1.1 -8.9
Petteri Koponen 2007 30 0 -250 -14.1 -5.2 -2.6 -1.1 -8.9
J.R. Giddens 2008 30 0 -250 -14.1 -5.2 -2.6 -1.1 -8.9
DeSagana Diop 2001 8 471 14.6 2.1 3.9 0.4 6.4 +74 -8.3 -7.2 +0.0 -1.5 -8.8
Shaun Vandiver 1991 25 0 -218 -14.6 -5.2 -2.7 -0.9 -8.8
Luther Wright 1993 18 15 6.1 1.3 0.7 0.0 2.0 -302 -11.3 -5.3 -2.4 -0.9 -8.7
Troy Bell 2003 16 6 5.7 1.8 0.7 0.7 3.2 -358 -12.5 -5.4 -2.1 -0.9 -8.5
Tony Battie 1997 5 721 22.6 6.5 5.5 0.7 12.7 +169 -6.1 -6.9 +0.6 -2.0 -8.4
Brandon Armstrong 2001 23 108 6.5 2.2 0.6 0.2 3.0 -260 -12.9 -4.6 -2.5 -1.2 -8.4
Deon Thomas 1994 28 0 -250 -13.3 -5.1 -1.9 -1.4 -8.4
Tiago Splitter 2007 28 0 -250 -13.3 -5.1 -1.9 -1.4 -8.4
Ed O'Bannon 1995 9 128 16.1 5.0 2.5 0.8 8.3 -332 -7.0 -5.2 -2.4 -0.8 -8.3
Cal Bowdler 1999 17 142 9.7 3.0 1.9 0.2 5.1 -255 -10.6 -5.1 -2.0 -1.2 -8.3
Shawn Respert 1995 8 172 13.7 4.9 1.3 1.0 7.2 -225 -9.2 -4.4 -2.6 -0.9 -8.0
Roy Marble 1989 23 29 6.7 1.9 1.1 0.4 3.4 -339 -12.7 -4.9 -2.0 -1.0 -8.0
Great find
Pretty sure both those articles are a year or two old but still pretty relevant. If any can find the article I was looking for I'd appreciate it if they could post the link.
Even if Coangelo isn't the best active GM at drafting, I think he is a lock for top 5, which I think we can be happy with. His downfall in the past seemed to be trading away youth for a win now run that never materialized in a meaningful way. Hopefully he doesn't make those mistakes this time around.
When he drafts, he does well. When he trades the pick, he fails miserably.
I saw an article (bleacher report) and BC is ranked 4th or 5th, not sure. But def in the top 5
I have quite a bit of faith in his drafting skill. I know a lot of us were doubting him on draft day last year after picking JV.
agree. he is either great at evaluating talent himself or listens to all the scouts and the team makes the right choices. when he trades or signs free agency he tends to get tunnel vision and competitive. if there is a player he wants he will throw whatever he can to get them.Quote:
ceez wrote:
you lost me at "bleacher report"Quote:
torch19 wrote:
As much as you want to say even Chris Bosh said draft him, the reason we didn't draft LA was because of Chris Bosh's presence the 2 played basically identical with no chance of ever being able to hold down the paint because they were both considered "finesse" big men. Even though Andrea had that stigma as well he was at least a legit 7 feet tall with the potential to hold down the paint due to his shot blocking abilities ( which he's proven to be decent at).Quote:
Bargnani was a bad pick when Aldridge was still available. Even Bosh publicly stated that he would choose Aldridge - this is unusual for a player to do. He might still be here if it were not for this mistake and the fortunes (on court) would have been night and day! Even with Bargnani's future improved play, it was still the wrong choice. At the time I was thinking, it's BC, I must be wrong. Didn't take too long after to see that it was he who clearly made the incorrect choice! Don't like players with knee problems unless it's a heavily scrutinized (informed) decision - Roy!
I was upset with the DD choice because Lawson imo was clearly such a talent. Disappointed he missed Jennings even though I knew nothing about him - this should not excuse BC. Other players further down that he missed also.
On the bright side DD's work ethic should lead to much future improvement and I have high hopes for him.
Liked the Ed pick at the time so I have no say now. Loved Jordan Crawford and wanted them to find a way to get him at 27.
Liked Fredette, Knight and JV in that order. His order was JV then Knight. Thought he did very well, but new decision makers were in the mix by then.
Moving forward, I see them drafting better than they ever have - still worry about them missing players though!
There are two players in this draft that I will be disappointed if they don't get.
Excited about Jennings? Why.. all he did was talk, his stats were suspect.. Derozan was easily the best pick for us at the time already projected around that spot and was suppose to be able to fill a huge hole on the wing for us .. he may still..
Ed davis who cares that draft sucked lol
and we all saw where drafting fredette got sacremento..lol adam morrison v2.
+1Quote:
Draft wrote:
It just goes to show how much of a crapshoot this is, and how much emphasis we put on ONE move making or breaking a team. I think I'll read this over and over to get rid of my nerves heading into the draft
Trade the pick and maximize your assets then. They picked Bargnani and in hindsight (because Colangelo has said Andrea is a natural 4 now) it is the exact same scenario as picking Aldridge isn't it?Quote:
CalgaryRapsFan wrote:
Gay is making more money but you don't know what type of contract he would be signed to with the Raps currently. even then, i'd rather pay more money for a player that is committed to the game and getting better every year then a player who I am paying less to but coasts on whatever natural talent he has.
Didn't Rudy Gay and Paul George have questions about motivation and lack of assertiveness coming out of college ?
dunno about George but Gay did. I think the thing with George was he went to fresno state
Thats what assessing talent is all about as a GM. Do you see a problem with Rudy Gay regarding motivation and lack of assertiveness now?Quote:
torch19 wrote:
Thats what the job entails, projecting what a players game will become in the future.
Obviously some GMs' do a far better job of this than others.
A lot of Memphis fans (based on blog and newspaper comment sections) have an issue with his body language and demeanour. Gay is Memphis' Bargnani it seems, in my opinion.Quote:
sleepz wrote:
In a case like this, there is no inside information. John Madden could write an article about this topic.Quote:
thead wrote:
The internet provides all the research needed.
Game 7 of Mephis against the Clippers, 4th quarter in a close game with all of your season on the line. Rudy Gay produced, in 9 minutes of play: 3 rebounds, 1 turnover and a grand total of 2 fieldgoal attempts, both missed (one even meaningless with 17 seconds to go and trailing by 11).Quote:
sleepz wrote: