The case for Rudy Gay to the Raptors: Heisley speaks to rumours (277)

Does anyone else find it ironic that we are trying to trade for two guys who we could have drafted?

still love the moves though, this is what I wanted to see

hey it is what it is. hindsight is 20/20.

its not like Bargs was a bad pick or anything, either.

Philly insider:

"I asked today and was told Barngani wasnt available to us.

they offered #8, Calderon and Davis for Iguodala and #15.

we said we would get back to them later

in such a move Jrue would play the 2. I am assuming Turner plays the 3. They dont seem inclined to move him.

Just weighing our options."

What y'all think about it? :) I think, that Iggy is a little worse than Gay, but after this trade we would have #15 pick and save lots of money to aquire Nash or Dragic :) If we take Nash, we could pick Marshall as a future PG if he's available at #15 a year behind Nash would be perfect for young point guard:)

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slaw wrote:

Unfortunately, the die has been cast. I expect them to do everything in their power to have a playoff team next year. BC and Casey have said they want to win next year. I take them at their word.

Again, I don't have a huge issue with this if: one, you are prepared to do whatever it takes to try and become a ECF contender and, two, you are close enough to make that plan feasible. With Raps, they are not even close (problem #1) and you know that they won't actually go 100% in the win now direction (problem #2), rather they will do it half-assed and end up back where they are right now in 2 years. Then we'll have another 5 year rebuild.

What I really don't get about fans getting on board with this is it's exactly the same plan from 6 years ago. The only difference this time is that the best player on the team isn't as good as the best player then. Look what that plan achieved. We're happy with the next 6 years looking like the past 6? We're all on board for doing the same thing? It's not like you have go back 40 years to see how this plays out. We just watched it. With the same GM. And the results are going to be the same. Madness.

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+1

It's a shame no one is there to restrain Bryan Colangelo from pursuing this madness. he is about to set this franchise back another half decade and there is nothign anyone can do about it except stand and watch this "architect" build a house on quicksand.

Not interested in Iggy at all. He's quite a few notches below Gay (both in terms of current production, and future potential).

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Nilanka wrote:

If Gay is obtained, the argument can be made that he would be Toronto's best player since Carter. Whether Bargnani stays or goes, Gay appears to be the type of talent one can build a team around.

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Really?lol

I like Gay and think he is a solid player in this league but when looking at the advanced stats he doesn't come close to Bosh's numbers and is not in the same stratosphere as Carter. Like a previous poster has said, it's the same approach it was with Bosh and his years here, except more money will now be invested in this move to a player that while talented, has yet to show he can even be an all-star let alone a franchise player.

The Raptors current run of ineptitude I think has made us lose some of our logic and objectivity

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japetas wrote:

Philly insider:

"I asked today and was told Barngani wasnt available to us.

they offered #8, Calderon and Davis for Iguodala and #15.

we said we would get back to them later

in such a move Jrue would play the 2. I am assuming Turner plays the 3. They dont seem inclined to move him.

Just weighing our options."

What y'all think about it? :) I think, that Iggy is a little worse than Gay, but after this trade we would have #15 pick and save lots of money to aquire Nash or Dragic :) If we take Nash, we could pick Marshall as a future PG if he's available at #15 a year behind Nash would be perfect for young point guard:)

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hmm i'd have to think long and hard about that one. at 15 you could still get a nice player.

for instance, Ross is mocked at #15. someone is bound to slide, too. Lillard? Waiters?

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I would still prefer going after Gay.

According to rumors, there are at least 2 ways Toronto could get back into the lottery if they decide to trade away #8:

1) NO is allegedly offering #10 to any team willing to take Ariza or Okafor (Ariza could be had with the Barbosa TPE)

2) Houston is allegedly open to trading either the #14 or #16 pick for a 2013 1st round pick (since they traded away their own), if they are unable to use their picks to move up in the draft or acquire a star player

3) if Toronto gets the #25 pick back from Memphis in a trade for Gay, they could pakcage it with another asset (ie: #37, #56, player, future pick) to move up

Bottom line is that trading the #8 pick for a star player suddenly doesn't sound nearly as bad as it did even a few days ago, as there seem to be several potential options availble for getting back into the lottery... maybe even to get the guy they really want at #8!

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sleepz wrote:

Really?lol

I like Gay and think he is a solid player in this league but when looking at the advanced stats he doesn't come close to Bosh's numbers and is not in the same stratosphere as Carter. Like a previous poster has said, it's the same approach it was with Bosh and his years here, except more money will now be invested in this move to a player that while talented, has yet to show he can even be an all-star let alone a franchise player.

The Raptors current run of ineptitude I think has made us lose some of our logic and objectivity

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I realize that staying the course, and building primarily through the draft is the safest approach. But we all know Colangelo isn't going that route, so I don't see the purpose in discussing a scenario that has zero possibility of happening.

Gay's contract is a large one. But 3 years isn't that daunting of a commitment. He's still a young player, who was asked to share the ball (a lot) in Memphis. He's an underrated defender, a good rebounder, and a closer. He'll be the first wing (since Carter) capable of creating offense in ISO situations. I honestly believe that with Gay as a centrepiece, the rest of the roster could be rounded into form in the next 3 years.

Will we ever be a championship team this way? It's hard to tell. We don't know what Valanciunas will eventually turn into. Maybe we get another 1st round pick back in a Gay trade. Maybe our 37th pick turns into a sleeper. Maybe Nash joins us, brings us back into the playoffs, gets the league talking about Toronto in a positive light (for once), and maybe, potential free agents start looking at this team a little more realistically.

Do the stars have to align perfectly? Absolutely! But I could say the same about the draft.

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Nilanka wrote:

I realize that staying the course, and building primarily through the draft is the safest approach. But we all know Colangelo isn't going that route, so I don't see the purpose in discussing a scenario that has zero possibility of happening.

Gay's contract is a large one. But 3 years isn't that daunting of a commitment. He's still a young player, who was asked to share the ball (a lot) in Memphis. He's an underrated defender, a good rebounder, and a closer. He'll be the first wing (since Carter) capable of creating offense in ISO situations. I honestly believe that with Gay as a centrepiece, the rest of the roster could be rounded into form in the next 3 years.

Will we ever be a championship team this way? It's hard to tell. We don't know what Valanciunas will eventually turn into. Maybe we get another 1st round pick back in a Gay trade. Maybe our 37th pick turns into a sleeper. Maybe Nash joins us, brings us back into the playoffs, gets the league talking about Toronto in a positive light (for once), and maybe, potential free agents start looking at this team a little more realistically.

Do the stars have to align perfectly? Absolutely! But I could say the same about the draft.

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So many options available AFTER acquiring Gay via trade.
- hopefully Toronto gets the #25 pick in return from Memphis
- #10 could apparently be had by using the TPE to acquire Ariza (per multiple rumors, firstly ESPN)
- Houston might make the #14/16 pick available in exchange for a 2013 1st round pick (per rumor on CNNSI this morning)
- Toronto still has #37 and #56 as assets
- Toronto still has MLE and Vet exceptions available

I can't see how including any combination of DeRozan, JJ, Davis, Calderon & #8 for Gay & #25 could be viewed as anything but a good thing! Obviously subsequent moves would need to be made (draft picks, trades, signings, re-signings), but I think trading for Gay would be the first step in a very positive direction!

Interesting article from Ryan Wolstat at the Sun. My main concern is that I have thought that the Raptors would be doing another team a big favour by solving their tax/financial concerns, while giving up several assets for a player who is overpaid.

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It’s no secret the Raptors are aggressively shopping for a talent upgrade at guard or small forward.

Memphis small forward Rudy Gay and Philadelphia swingman Andre Iguodala have long topped the wish list of the club and ESPN put fuel on the fire on Wednesday by reiterating as much.

However, according to sources, the report that the Raptors have been trying to package a young player like Ed Davis with the No. 8 selection and a veteran (Jose Calderon or Andrea Bargnani, according to the report) is not entirely accurate.

The Raptors are not inclined to both solve the salary cap problems of a team like Memphis by taking on Gay as well as surrendering that significant a package of assets and have let that be known.

The price would likely have to come down for Toronto to agree to a deal.

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http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/06...ures-on-lebron

Hopefully Wolstat has actually talked to someone within the Raptors to get this information. I would be interested in adding Gay (and potentially AI) if the price is right.

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CalgaryRapsFan wrote:

So many options available AFTER acquiring Gay via trade.
- hopefully Toronto gets the #25 pick in return from Memphis
- #10 could apparently be had by using the TPE to acquire Ariza (per multiple rumors, firstly ESPN)
- Houston might make the #14/16 pick available in exchange for a 2013 1st round pick (per rumor on CNNSI this morning)
- Toronto still has #37 and #56 as assets
- Toronto still has MLE and Vet exceptions available

I can't see how including any combination of DeRozan, JJ, Davis, Calderon & #8 for Gay & #25 could be viewed as anything but a good thing! Obviously subsequent moves would need to be made (draft picks, trades, signings, re-signings), but I think trading for Gay would be the first step in a very positive direction!

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Agreed. And this doesn't even account for the plethora of options that await NEXT season, or the season after that.

I don't see the acquisition of Gay as a franchise-crippling move at all.

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Shantz wrote:

Interesting article from Ryan Wolstat at the Sun. My main concern is that I have thought that the Raptors would be doing another team a big favour by solving their tax/financial concerns, while giving up several assets for a player who is overpaid.



http://www.torontosun.com/2012/06/06...ures-on-lebron

Hopefully Wolstat has actually talked to someone within the Raptors to get this information. I would be interested in adding Gay (and potentially AI) if the price is right.

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I seriously doubt Bargnani is going anywhere. I could see Calderon being moved, especially if the Raps expect to sign Nash as his replacement.

I could see the Raps offering DD/Davis & JJ & #8 for Gay (and hopefully #25). If Calderon is included in the deal, it would likely need to be a 3-team trade, since Memphis really doesn't need Calderon and acquiring him would negate the savings from trading away Gay.

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CalgaryRapsFan wrote:

I seriously doubt Bargnani is going anywhere. I could see Calderon being moved, especially if the Raps expect to sign Nash as his replacement.

I could see the Raps offering DD/Davis & JJ & #8 for Gay (and hopefully #25). If Calderon is included in the deal, it would likely need to be a 3-team trade, since Memphis really doesn't need Calderon and acquiring him would negate the savings from trading away Gay.

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Calderon still gives Memphis value as an expiring contract (or a trade deadline asset).

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Nilanka wrote:

Calderon still gives Memphis value as an expiring contract (or a trade deadline asset).

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On the surface I agree with you, but if their primary motivating factor for trading Gay is freeing up cap space to re-sign Mayo and others, then acquiring Calderon seems unlikely. Next season, Gay will make $16.46M. Calderon will make $10.56M and DD/Davis/JJ will make between $2.21M - $3.35M. Unless Memphis plans to flip Calderon (or Conley), I can't envision a trade going down that includes Calderon, without at least one other team being involved.

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Nilanka wrote:

I realize that staying the course, and building primarily through the draft is the safest approach. But we all know Colangelo isn't going that route, so I don't see the purpose in discussing a scenario that has zero possibility of happening.

Gay's contract is a large one. But 3 years isn't that daunting of a commitment. He's still a young player, who was asked to share the ball (a lot) in Memphis. He's an underrated defender, a good rebounder, and a closer. He'll be the first wing (since Carter) capable of creating offense in ISO situations. I honestly believe that with Gay as a centrepiece, the rest of the roster could be rounded into form in the next 3 years.

Will we ever be a championship team this way? It's hard to tell. We don't know what Valanciunas will eventually turn into. Maybe we get another 1st round pick back in a Gay trade. Maybe our 37th pick turns into a sleeper. Maybe Nash joins us, brings us back into the playoffs, gets the league talking about Toronto in a positive light (for once), and maybe, potential free agents start looking at this team a little more realistically.

Do the stars have to align perfectly? Absolutely! But I could say the same about the draft.

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But that's my point. Everyone was told that the "safe" approach was the way thye were going and 1 year into this approach it's back to hitting homeruns? Even you have acknowleged that the draft is the better option for the Raps moving forward. Instead of shrugging our collective shoulders and just acknowledging Colangelo's lies, the fans need to stay away from supporting this foolishness and voice their opinions of this epic failure of this current GM to manage a team.

We did this already folks. Fans didn't want to pay Bosh the maximum and were happy about him leaving but are fine with paying Gay just about the same? lol

In 5 years time when it plays out the same way is everyone going to then say, "not it makes sense to do it the right way"?

The sras need to align right in any scenario that is good (draft, trade or FA) but i nthe larket we are in, we know we should be the type of team trying to build through the draft. This building a team on the fly stuff will only end back where you have started with nothing really to show for it.

Colangelo lies to fanbase year after year and it's all good, because we the sheep, love to follow.

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CalgaryRapsFan wrote:

I seriously doubt Bargnani is going anywhere. I could see Calderon being moved, especially if the Raps expect to sign Nash as his replacement.

I could see the Raps offering DD/Davis & JJ & #8 for Gay (and hopefully #25). If Calderon is included in the deal, it would likely need to be a 3-team trade, since Memphis really doesn't need Calderon and acquiring him would negate the savings from trading away Gay.

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Of course Bargnani's not going anywhere.

Bryan Colangelo is GM of the Raptors and his ego is bigger than the long term interests and success of this franchise.

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sleepz wrote:

But that's my point. Everyone was told that the "safe" approach was the way thye were going and 1 year into this approach it's back to hitting homeruns? Even you have acknowleged that the draft is the better option for the Raps moving forward. Instead of shrugging our collective shoulders and just acknowledging Colangelo's lies, the fans need to stay away from supporting this foolishness and voice their opinions of this epic failure of this current GM to manage a team.

We did this already folks. Fans didn't want to pay Bosh the maximum and were happy about him leaving but are fine with paying Gay just about the same? lol

In 5 years time when it plays out the same way is everyone going to then say, "not it makes sense to do it the right way"?

The sras need to align right in any scenario that is good (draft, trade or FA) but i nthe larket we are in, we know we should be the type of team trying to build through the draft. This building a team on the fly stuff will only end back where you have started with nothing really to show for it.

Colangelo lies to fanbase year after year and it's all good, because we the sheep, love to follow.

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But the Raps could trade #8 and rotation players for Gay, and then still have options for getting back into the lottery (ie: NO rumor, Houston rumor, or moving up from #25 that they hopefully would get back from Memphis). Given the rumors that are out there, this is a season where the Raps might not have to choose between "trade pick for homerun" and "draft rookie"... they could quite possibly be able to do both! That's the ultimate win-win!