Nash or Lowry

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Mediumcore wrote:

My pick provided we're giving up the exact same to acquire said player would be for Nash as he makes us much better instantly, however if it comes down to what would be required to get either player I would say Lowry as Nash will likely cost us more.

I'm starting to get a little disinchanted with Nash actually (sacreligous I know). He seems to be after personal gain rather than chasing a championship. That's the same as Calderon saying he'd play back up to Ford or Jack for the "good of the team". Where's your competetive spark? You should want to win if you're a competitor. Nash, seemingly just wants to set himself up for the future it would seem.

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I disagree. I hate the superstar's joining together to form a "superteam". Nash doesn't play by the old saying, "If you can't beat them, join them." He wants the challenge of beating the best:

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So would he rather join the Heat and win a title or be on the team that knocks them off?

"The truth is I'm a bit old school. For me, it would be hard to put on a Lakers jersey. That's just the way it is," Nash said. "You play against them so many times in the playoffs, and I just use them as an example, and I have the utmost respect for them and their organization.

"I kind of have that tendency (to try to beat the best teams), so it is strange, but as a free agent you're free to go where you want, so I'd have to consider everything regardless of the past or the future."

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Oh yeah, and another thing... it is sacreligous!

LOL, c'mon coach if he wanted the challenge of beating the top dogs, he wouldn't position himself with one of the worst teams in the league. There is no shot for Nash over the course of his remaining playing career to be a champion if he signs with the Raptors. I think he's a great player, but to not chase a championship while he still can is baffling. I don't know how else to explain his motivation?

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LeeZ wrote:

Good grief, you just can't win with people like you! I don't profess to know what's going on in Nash's head, but say he wants to finish out his career in his homeland, perhaps at least in part due to a sense of patriotism or at least familiarity and comfort level with playing in his home country, and, yes, scandalously, get paid well in the process. Well, in that case you slam him. But say he did what you're suggesting: go to Miami or some other destination where he would be best able to chase a ready-made championship. Then you'd slam him for pulling a Lebron. NASH JUST CAN'T WIN!!!

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People like me who don't want to agree with the consensus line of thinking? Yes I like to formulate my own opinions. I didn't say that he should sign with Miami or any of the other power houses. What I'm saying is that signing with one of the worst teams in the league shows that he's not chasing a championship. If you aren't playing to win a championship when the opportunity is there then what is your motivation? It should be the sole purpose he is playing still shouldn't it? Were Malone, Payton, Barkley and all the rest who tried to finish their careers winning a championship wrong?

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tbihis wrote:

I think Nash would give his left nut to win a championship, what i think he's saying is he wont give his left nut, even if dwight howard give his left nut, or kobe gives his left nut along with him. Meaning, he is not going to downgrade himself just so he can win a championship. I think every player's goal in the NBA is to win a championship, but they should be allowed to be realistic too, when they accept within themselves that , hey, maybe there's really only a slim window for me to win a championship, should i squeeze myself through that window, or create my own window and see what happens. Winning a championship is not guaranteed even if he teams up with the best of 'em, at the end of the day, he wants to go to a team and be happy with that decision, not go to a team miserably even with the possibility of winning a championship.

I think it's just natural. When you get a job, you work earn a living. You strive hard so the company wont go bankrupt, if the company becomes one of the most successful companies in the world while you're there, thats just addded bonus. But at the end of the day, you work to get paid. Specially now that basketball is more business rather than sport.

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I'm kind of blown away by that line of thinking. I would have thought that a player as gifted as Nash would only have one thing motivating him to play at this point in his career. It's grueling for a guy of his age to get up in the morning and get amped up for the long haul of an NBA regular season with the toll it takes on your body. I can't imagine anything else driving someone whom has accomplished so much to put themslef through that kind of grind but to win a championship. I really hope he goes to a team with a shot of winning it and all. It's the perfect way to end his playing career.

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Mediumcore wrote:

LOL, c'mon coach if he wanted the challenge of beating the top dogs, he wouldn't position himself with one of the worst teams in the league. There is no shot for Nash over the course of his remaining playing career to be a champion if he signs with the Raptors. I think he's a great player, but to not chase a championship while he still can is baffling. I don't know how else to explain his motivation?

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In that same article he mentions that chasing championships isn't an exact science either... you could go to a place that you don't like just to win a championship and that doesn't necessarily mean you will get it (he mentions injuries as a factor). I'm also not so sure that helping a team, like the Raptors, get over the hump into the playoffs is more selfish than joining a team to get your name on a trophy? I don't know Nash personally, but his history suggests that selfishness is not his issue... maybe stubborness?
As well, we may disagree on this, but to me some things are more important in life than winning championships. For example, family comes before trophy's in my life. Or, how about being a pioneer for future generations of basketball players in Canada?

Part of the question to me is trade for Lowry now as it is per-FA or pass and take a chance that Nash signs with Toronto, which while has many valid reasons Matt likes to continually poor out, is not a done deal. So pass on Lowry and perhaps miss on both. Not saying that is completely terrible, but as it stands if it is Lowry or the POTENTIAL of Nash, I take Lowry.

Lowry makes more sense long term. He could actually still be part of the core when the young guys hit their prime years.

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Mediumcore wrote:

... I can't imagine anything else driving someone whom has accomplished so much to put themslef through that kind of grind but to win a championship...

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Says more about you than about Nash.

Why would anyone need somebody else's approval or recognition to be happy doing what they love to be doing? Maybe he goes out every game to be the best player he can be. And then measures his success and satisfaction with how close he has come. Anybody who can shoot the ball like he does and yet average 10 assists a game is getting a huge load of satisfaction out of helping someone else be successful.

Maybe he would get a tremendous amount of satisfaction out of helping Canada's only pro basketball team be something other than a joke.

Maybe an opportunity to help Canada's professional team at the same time he helps create a closer relationship between that team and the countries national program counts for more with him than the desire to see his name on a trophy.

Maybe he has already accomplished what he wanted to, twice...and that is to be acknowledged by those in his profession as the most valuable player in the league. Next to that, winning a championship is a crap shoot; something that depends on a multitude of factors you have no control over. A championship depends on draft luck, astute management, a lack of injuries, the play-off seeding, the match-ups, the reffing, the correct trades, and correct coaching strategy and substitution patterns, none of which Nash has any control over. He can decide which team he wants to go to. He can go to one of 3 or 4 potential championship teams, at the cost of $15-20 million dollars, and hope all the other factors work out (like Lebron doesn't get killed in a car crash, or some other player doesn't break their femur in a pick-up game during the summer) or he can go some place else where he can accomplish something else. Maybe something that means more to him than anything you can imagine.

Just saying.

Nash is gonna sign with the raps and Mediumcore is going to owe everyone wings

neither. Keep Calderon. He had probably his best season ever and he got plenty left in the tank yet. Doesn't make sense to me to let Jose go just as he's coming into his own. For all those twenty something's who think that 32 is old, it's not. A game like Derrick Rose's will be highly affected when he's 32, but Jose is not reliant on his athleticism to get the job done. Jose's best years are still ahead of him. Would love to see Nash in the red and white but he probably only has 2 years left. Would hate to lose Jose for that to happen. Nash is probably the best pg in the league to feed JV on the pick and roll but Jose isn't far behind. Jose worked great in Casey's system and will be even better this year. Jose is a great mentor and any young point guard would benefit under his tutelage. Maybe Kabongo will get the chance next year?

BC is drafting Rivers. Maybe not at 8 but somehow, someway it will happen.

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The Coach wrote:

In that same article he mentions that chasing championships isn't an exact science either... you could go to a place that you don't like just to win a championship and that doesn't necessarily mean you will get it (he mentions injuries as a factor). I'm also not so sure that helping a team, like the Raptors, get over the hump into the playoffs is more selfish than joining a team to get your name on a trophy? I don't know Nash personally, but his history suggests that selfishness is not his issue... maybe stubborness?
As well, we may disagree on this, but to me some things are more important in life than winning championships. For example, family comes before trophy's in my life. Or, how about being a pioneer for future generations of basketball players in Canada?

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I get that and I'm not saying that going to any team guarantee's a championship. However, to give up on what is every NBA players ultimate goal just seems like he himself has given up. He can be a patriot and help Canada basketball in any number of ways, but to do it now at this point of his career when he is best positioned to get that ultimate goal....it doesn't make him selfish to want that... it should be what every NBA player wants. It's Steve Nash, not Latrell Spreewell. The guy is the ultimate competitor and all around good guy. Not some shmuck trying to put dollars in his pocket right?

There you go making things personal...

It could be Nash's competitive nature that prevents him from joining forces with the enemy (i.e. Lakers, Mavs, Thunder, etc.).

Perhaps you're right, I'm just stating my opinion here. I just figure if you're not playing to win then you're just there to make a living.

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Mediumcore wrote:

Perhaps you're right, I'm just stating my opinion here. I just figure if you're not playing to win then you're just there to make a living.

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I get your point Mediumcore and agree there is a fine line; however, I think Nash will want to win wherever he goes... just not that way.

Put me in neither category. It's not to say that I wouldn't enjoy Nash coming, but as a basketball fan, I don't want to see him dragging this team to mediocrity and I don't trust this management group to do what's necessary to get a winning team the next few years. If you got Nash, you would have to swing for the fences and get a guy like Rudy Gay or Andre Igoudala or even Amare (I know, I know, but if you're going to go big, might as well get his wingman and take a chance) and I feel more and more that it would just be a business decision (a good one, but just a business decision). All this talk about how JV or Bargnani can 'learn' from him is nonsense too, like somehow Nash can teach them how to defend better or handle the ball. He'll help them score but once he goes away, you're still left with limited players. And I'm not exactly sold on Lowry. Feels like a regression guy and the fact that Dragic (who will be overpaid by someone) filled in for him makes me think he might be overvalued. Better to resign Bayless, go for a guy like Austin Rivers, suck again for another high draft choice and keep your flexibility until you can sign someone better. Shooting for the middle never helps.

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DirtyMikeSeaver wrote:

Put me in neither category. It's not to say that I wouldn't enjoy Nash coming, but as a basketball fan, I don't want to see him dragging this team to mediocrity and I don't trust this management group to do what's necessary to get a winning team the next few years. If you got Nash, you would have to swing for the fences and get a guy like Rudy Gay or Andre Igoudala or even Amare (I know, I know, but if you're going to go big, might as well get his wingman and take a chance) and I feel more and more that it would just be a business decision (a good one, but just a business decision). All this talk about how JV or Bargnani can 'learn' from him is nonsense too, like somehow Nash can teach them how to defend better or handle the ball. He'll help them score but once he goes away, you're still left with limited players. And I'm not exactly sold on Lowry. Feels like a regression guy and the fact that Dragic (who will be overpaid by someone) filled in for him makes me think he might be overvalued. Better to resign Bayless, go for a guy like Austin Rivers, suck again for another high draft choice and keep your flexibility until you can sign someone better. Shooting for the middle never helps.

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If we do get Nash, I'm not so sure about getting Amare. His contract is bad and he's completely uninsurable. Not to mention that he's a nutcase who seems to like punching fire extinguishers. As for drafting Austin Rivers, I don't think he should be a priority. Although I do like the fact that he has thought of Toronto as a possible destination and actually liking the city and team. But I think we should draft Lillard (Yes, I'm high on him).

I think this decision should be made right before our draft selection. If Lillard or Drummond fall to the raptors, I'd keep the pick. On the other hand Lowry is the point guard of choice. He's younger and plays tough defense, plus we loose a portion of our trade exemption if we don't use it by the draft.

This should be a great draft. Other factors to consider is a the Deng situation, what would attract G Wallace, and has anyone considered signing Moe Williams?

Oh, and yeah... I could see Drummond falling, and if he does why not select him. He needs time to develop and he could play behind Bargnani and some center until he does. We wouldn't need Grey to handle the bigs.

Lowry!!

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Apollo wrote:

Lowry makes more sense long term. He could actually still be part of the core when the young guys hit their prime years.

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+1 good point