Raptors in discussion with 76ers for Igoudala (Thorn denies rumor (#163)

hey, tucas. for future refrence. you should stress discussion .so, people dont cause fuckin anarchy!

i think this is the attempt of some half wit reporter/moonlighting want to be GM to turn shit into gold with n Iggy trade.. if we do land Iggy it def. wont take all of that to get done...i hope not anyway.

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tucas wrote:

Feel free to merge this with another thread I couldn't find one though.

The rumour going around now is that the raptors are in trade talks with the 76ers for Igoudala.
The trade would send Calderon, DeMar Derozan, and Ed Davis for Andre Igoudala and Nikola Vuvejic.

I have mixed feelings with this trade. I feel Demar has a lot of room to grow and shouldn't be the first to be traded for a guy in his prime who will soon decline. But at the same time we have Ross and likely fields and this would solve our largest problem and we'd get vuvejic another center. Assuming this was the last move this offseason our lineup would look like

Lowry/Bayless(if resigned)
Ross/Fields(or vice versa)
Iggy/JJ/Kleiza
Bargnani/Amir
Valanciunas/Vuvejic

This brings me to ask the question, if this happens aren't we almost just as weak at the sg spot as we are now at sf? I know Ross and fields will both get better but it just seems like its translating our problems to another position.

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That deal makes the Raptors a lot better right now. Colangelo should show enough production to insure a contract extension if this happens.

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geo wrote:

honsetly if BC trades derozan now it would be the stupidest move....id give up ross+JJ+ed+ Calderon before id give derozan

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Without me being confrontational in asking, could you explain the rationale?

My opinion:

DeRozan has declined in efficiency each of the last 2 years in the league. He is not a good shooter, dribbler, rebounder, passer, defender, or creator. He has not improved significantly in these areas the last 3 years either. BC called him out about being a total professional and doing the other things required to improve his game like hit the weight room. He is a good scorer but not exactly an efficient scorer. He is a good slasher and gets to the bucket but often fails to finish through contact. He has let his emotions get the best of him on a number of occasions. He is still young, he supposedly loves Toronto, and from all accounts he is a great person. There is still lots of untapped potential but him reaching it is not a guarantee because after 3 years he continues to be extremely one dimensional.

I'd genuinely be interested to read what makes him untouchable to you.

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Matt52 wrote:

Without me being confrontational in asking, could you explain the rationale?

My opinion:

DeRozan has declined in efficiency each of the last 2 years in the league. He is not a good shooter, dribbler, rebounder, passer, defender, or creator. He has not improved significantly in these areas the last 3 years either. BC called him out about being a total professional and doing the other things required to improve his game like hit the weight room. He is a good scorer but not exactly an efficient scorer. He is a good slasher and gets to the bucket but often fails to finish through contact. He has let his emotions get the best of him on a number of occasions. He is still young, he supposedly loves Toronto, and from all accounts he is a great person. There is still lots of untapped potential but him reaching it is not a guarantee because after 3 years he continues to be extremely one dimensional.

I'd genuinely be interested to read what makes him untouchable to you.

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You said it...his potential. I understand that potential can get you fired but honestly i really think he is going to be a star. Every year he has improved and every year he finishes the year off strong which leads be to believe that if we make the playoffs he can do something. Also a guy that as hard working and athletic as he is has a very good chance to be good.

Now its not that derozan is untouchable its that we don't need to give him to get iggy, and if 10 mil expiring plus a rookie contract of ed davis is not enough maybe you add JJ...but derozan is a steep price.

If we give up Derozan, essentially all we do is replace our hole at SF with a hole at SG. Fields is nothing more than a role player at this time, and Ross is completely unproven.

I would give up JJ/Kleiza + Calderon + 1st round pick + Davis/Amir to get this done. I think those three considerable assets should be enough to take what has been known as one of the worst contracts in the league for several years. Maybe we need to get a third team involved someone that needs PG.

I don't think giving up Derozan + all/some of those assets doesn't make us better. If however we can keep Derozan:

PG: Lowry/Bayless/(Uzoh?)
SF: Iguodala/Kleiza/(Anderson? lol)
SG: Derozan/Fields/Ross
PF: Bargnani/(Davis or Amir)/Acy
C: Valanciunas/Vucevic/(Gray?)

With a starting line up like that we will definitely make the playoffs this year.

BC get it done without trading Demar!

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tucas wrote:

Feel free to merge this with another thread I couldn't find one though.

The rumour going around now is that the raptors are in trade talks with the 76ers for Igoudala.
The trade would send Calderon, DeMar Derozan, and Ed Davis for Andre Igoudala and Nikola Vuvejic.

I have mixed feelings with this trade. I feel Demar has a lot of room to grow and shouldn't be the first to be traded for a guy in his prime who will soon decline. But at the same time we have Ross and likely fields and this would solve our largest problem and we'd get vuvejic another center. Assuming this was the last move this offseason our lineup would look like

Lowry/Bayless(if resigned)
Ross/Fields(or vice versa)
Iggy/JJ/Kleiza
Bargnani/Amir
Valanciunas/Vuvejic

This brings me to ask the question, if this happens aren't we almost just as weak at the sg spot as we are now at sf? I know Ross and fields will both get better but it just seems like its translating our problems to another position.

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don't like it!

I think there would be better trades available for raptors. I think deng is much better then Igoudala and they will need a replacement while rose is out and the 2 is their weakest spot. I'd much rather prefer if we made the same deal to Chicago. Deng is under contract for longer and being stereotypical he's not American so may be more inclined to resign than Iggy.

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tucas wrote:

I think there would be better trades available for raptors. I think deng is much better then Igoudala and they will need a replacement while rose is out and the 2 is their weakest spot. I'd much rather prefer if we made the same deal to Chicago. Deng is under contract for longer and being stereotypical he's not American so may be more inclined to resign than Iggy.

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ya lets trade for injury prone guy

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geo wrote:

You said it...his potential. I understand that potential can get you fired but honestly i really think he is going to be a star. Every year he has improved and every year he finishes the year off strong which leads be to believe that if we make the playoffs he can do something. Also a guy that as hard working and athletic as he is has a very good chance to be good.

Now its not that derozan is untouchable its that we don't need to give him to get iggy, and if 10 mil expiring plus a rookie contract of ed davis is not enough maybe you add JJ...but derozan is a steep price.

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id agree with everything but that Demar's improved every year.. his usage went up.. his shots went up.. but ive yet to see much if any improvement.. that package of players is def too steep for iggy IMO.. i wouldnt include demar either. not that i wouldnt trade demar just not in that deal

i think he has improved...i think when bargnani was hurt teams zeroed in on him and he was the focus...granted he played some bad games but i think those are growing pains. After the all star break he was 10th in scoring in the eastern conference. Now i understand scoring isnt everything but its what he does best

I really am excited to see what he does with a full training camp under casey

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geo wrote:

You said it...his potential. I understand that potential can get you fired but honestly i really think he is going to be a star. Every year he has improved and every year he finishes the year off strong which leads be to believe that if we make the playoffs he can do something. Also a guy that as hard working and athletic as he is has a very good chance to be good.

Now its not that derozan is untouchable its that we don't need to give him to get iggy, and if 10 mil expiring plus a rookie contract of ed davis is not enough maybe you add JJ...but derozan is a steep price.

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Thanks for sharing.

I'm not sure he has improved every year (especially from year 2 to 3) but we can agree to disagree.

This is a trade that should happen.
Some of you are simply being sentimental over Demar.
We have now found a better replacement for him in Ross, so what's the problem?

Trade makes no sense. From surfing Twitter it all looked like it was coming from Philly. That being said:

Derozan statistically is in the top 50 in 6 categories, top 10 in drawing fouls and free throw attempts (if I remember correctly). Looking at the numbers, he actually improved a lot last year (minus ppg). You can argue he is statistically the second best player in Toronto (wow we suck). The best? Jose Calderon.

(Yeah, yeah Bargs, and Amir injured...)

So we are going to trade our two best players statistically for an injury prone SF and middling backup 5?

1. There's no guarantee Hawes (Philly's starting 5) comes back.
2. We are trading 2 of our best players (on paper), 2 players on rookie contracts (if you include Ed), for an injured guy and who?
3. They're in our division!

I'm cool with trading old guy for old guy, but I don't want Derozan finding his game and killing us for the next 10 years 4 times a year. No.

I'm not against trading any of these guys (like I said we suck), but us trading 2 mediocre starters for 1 mediocre starter and a bench player in our division makes zero sense.

Zero.

If this is our best offer we should do nothing, make sure we can sign everyone, and figure things out from there.

this reminds me an awful lot of the J.O. trade and look at roy hibbert now, dont give up on the kid yet

Not liking the trade. Not because of DeRozan, but because Iggy isn't someone I trust running an ISO for in the dying seconds of a game. With Ross and Iggy on the wings, we're left with Lowry to do all the creating. That sort of offense is far too predictable for my liking.

If Gay seems unattainable, maybe Granger is an option?

Or even Chandler? He'd come at a much cheaper price.

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LateBoomer wrote:

This is a trade that should happen.
Some of you are simply being sentimental over Demar.
We have now found a better replacement for him in Ross, so what's the problem?

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How can you say he is a better replacement when he hasnt played a minute

the best thing ross does is he shoots the 3....man i wonder how many players do that

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Afro_Daddy wrote:

this reminds me an awful lot of the J.O. trade and look at roy hibbert now, dont give up on the kid yet

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We never had Hibbert. That pick was made on behalf of the Pacers (they chose him). Had we kept the pick, we may not have even selected Hibbert.

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geo wrote:

How can you say he is a better replacement when he hasnt played a minute

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Ross already has a better skillset than DeMar. He's a better shooter, rebounder, ball-handler, and defender. The only thing he's lacking (compared to DeMar) is experience.

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optifan wrote:

Source?? I can't find this anywhere and don't think it's a legit rumour at all.

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From what I've seen from another forum, the source from some guy called Sam Shipley (Twitter: ‏@samshipley5). I think it's a pretty shady source so there probably isn't too much truth to this :/