The great teams in that era were the dominant, prime-Duncan Spurs, the Wade-Shaq Heat, the James Cavs, the stacked Pistons. I really don't see a late 2000s raps team with Vince going much further, considering Vince, prime Jason Kidd and prime Richard Jefferson accomplished really nothing as well.Quote:
ceez wrote:
I don't buy any of the crap that comes out of Mitchells mouth. If he really wanted to stay he'd of said it publicly, kinda like how he let everyone know he wanted out. Besides, he obviously quit on the team. That right there says more than any revisionist BS that Smitch throws out there.
Vince covering for Sam on the body-slam story...now Sam suddenly covering for Vince, hmmm. Babcock handled it all poorly but Vince forced his hand by quiting in a very public way. If VC and Tannenbaum were so close they would have figured it out long before the trade...they didn't because Vince wanted out. If he changed his mind in the 11th hour it was likely because he didn't want to play in the swamp. With all the games Vince was playing at the time, no way Babcock doesn't make the move, that Tannenbaum signed off on.
...I have forgiven Vince and would actually like to see him end his career here or be involved with the franchise in some way.
The Raptors should continue to distance themselves from Vince Carter. He is everything that went wrong with this franchise and is the epitome of "what-not-to-do" star player behaviour from a fan and franchise perspective.
Simply put, he can never be forgiven. T-Mac, forgiven. Bosh, forgiven. Vince, never.
Exactly.Quote:
Axel wrote:
I love how VC nut suckers Tim n Sid bring up "what coulda been" with Tmac. What about what coulda been with Bosh, Rose and Jose? All they needed was a post player. A motivated VC, developing JC & Bosh + a post presence (oh how the hoffa draft hurt) could of been very good. Instead he killed his own trade value and set everyone back 3 years with his half assed play.
Wow. Wow. Wow. What an amazing interview. Vince!!!!
LOL so much of this screams bullshit to me.
Vince apparently conveniently changing his mind on the day he was traded, Vince saying to Sam that he liked the direction the team was going even though he criticized the team for not trading the fourth pick, no one says a word for 6 years....
oh and how about the fact that when he was traded he was averaging 15 ppg on 41% shooting in his 20 games before we traded him doesnt scream to me like a guy who wanted to be in Toronto.
^ Nails itQuote:
Raptoronto wrote:
Babcock was garbage.
This is old news. As much as I don't like Doug Smith from The Star, he's been reporting this for years (something he confirms in his blog today). This isn't about revisionist history, this actually happen. It's not to say Vince was blameless, he quit on the team, but if you think he's the only superstar that's pulled this, you're crazy. Read up on Hakeem Olajuwon back in the early 90s and he's demands to be traded, or even Kobe just a few years ago going on the radio with Steven A Smith. Athletes all the time have these snits and demands and they can change their mind at a drop of the hat. I can't dispute the desire to trade him. It was probably time. But if they kept him and worked things out, it wouldn't be the first time something like that has happened. And it wasn't like he was wrong about being mad, it's pretty obvious that this team has been run like a monkey circus. And why are we talking about something that happened almost 10 FRIGGIN YEARS ago?
As a fan of this team, I've long 'forgiven' Vince. He did what he felt was correct and from everything I've read about him (and meeting him twice), he's not a bad guy. Elliot Friedman on the Fan said it best today: He was a follower and he listened to the wrong people. You get older, you have kids, you live and you learn. He was a part of the most exciting time for this team and I choose to remember him like that. Better him that the apocalyptic time that was "Jason Kapono: Starting Small Forward".
Vince isn't the first to demand a trade, but the other guys that you mentioned, Kobe for example, never stopped playing hard. The hatred isn't because he wanted out, it's because he stopped trying long before he was out. People rip on LeBron for his last game with Cleveland when in the final few minutes of the game vs Boston he quit. Well he quit for less than 1 quarter of basketball, Vince quit for a quarter of a season.
well putQuote:
Axel wrote:
I agree, as much as I disliked those last few days with Vince barely resembling a basketball player, I think Babs definitely played a huge role in setting our franchise back. I'm over the whole VC thing and hearing all this now is nice for once. Even though VC is a shell of his former self in terms of not being a high flier, I'd take him over most of the guys we have on our team right about now.
On another note, there's too many what if's floating around... it's hard to think about it. What if TMac VC stayed, what if The Dream wasn't a nightmare, what if, etc... It's time to move on.
what ifs are fun but depressing at the same time..my all time raps team def. could hang with the best.
Stoudamire/Alvin/Lowry
VC/Demar/Jalen Rose
Tmac/Christie/Mo Pete
Bosh/Oakley/A.Davis
Camby/Valanciunas/Willis
if only we could have had these guys together;)
Vince didn't get along with that hack Rafer Alston, and the stupid organization backed Alston, so Vince quit on the team. But the team started it. They should have shipped Alston out of town as quickly as possible and fired Mitchell. Superstar players deserve special treatment because they're the ones doing all of the hard work on the court. The Raps weren't winning games because of middling time-wasters like Alston.
Vince was traded because he asked to be traded. Just because he changed his mind later doesn't make it the Organisations or Babcocks fault. Raptors are better off having nothing to do with a player who feels a certain way once and then decides otherwise. I do believe that his trade value diminished the moment his demand for a trade went public but I don't believe New Jerseys offer was the best one. That's the only thing one can blame Babcock for.
Vince Carter had the greatest influence on young Canadian basketball players back in the day than any other NBA player including Steve Nash. His work in the community was second to none. He put Toronto on the map in basketball circles. And he made me a die hard Raptors fan.
So when I hear he wanted to stay,the Raptors should have made it happen. I am sorry Rob Babcock but Michael Jordan reneged on a deal for Tyson Chandler /Jose Calderon in 2010 after it was all said and done. The sorry state of Raptor basketball can be laid at the feet of management back then and still today.
Vince wanted out, I don't think anyone can think otherwise if they watched the raptors play during those days. The constant pouting and lack of effort were on full display every time he stepped on the floor. He even admitted after getting traded to the Nets that he didn't give a full effort here in Toronto. Yeah. That sounds like someone who didn't want to get traded.
Just retire already man and fade into the distance. Please.