took the words right off my keyboardQuote:
Craiger wrote:
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took the words right off my keyboardQuote:
Craiger wrote:
Has he plateaued? No.
Bargnani still has the ability to improve and play like an all-star. Its all about his attitude.
Saying that I am not sure if he will reach his potential, however it is definitely there.
If he had the drive and tenacity of Kevin Garnett.. he would be scary. Unfortunately he does not, so my guess is that he won't get any better
He is the same, the only difference is that the offense isn't running through him anymore like it was last season or the season before where the focus was on him getting the ball. Now that the pressure is off of him "to be the man" since Lowry's arrival, he just being his lazy self.
Bargnani is just a slower/lazier version of Rashard Lewis with a worse 3 pointer shot, third scoring option at best and shouldn't be seeing the floor more then 25- 30 minutes a game.
He has regressed in the early games this year. Thats worse than plateauing. If he plays how he played (outside of Dallas, where he was somewhere been ok and pretty good) - then hes barely a serviceable NBA player. However, if he actually posts up (part his laziness, part HAS to be on Casey for not forcing him to do that) - he can be a dominant offensive force (espeically with JV on the court, because he will always have a size advantage). IF he does that, then he can absolutely improve.
Bottom line, this guy is too inconsistent to even deserve the label "plateau". Lets hope these first few games are a "funk" .. because if not, hes doing very little positive for the team.
hes done. im tired of his shit. get him out of here
Given his 3 rebounds / game, I say he's regressed. I understand its early but he's clearly not the man the team depends on anymore. I see him and Lowry having friction if his lackaisical attitude continues. I actually don't care if his offensive numbers are maintained or improves. He's not a Casey-type player and he's not a Lowry-type teammate. Knowing the league though, Casey will get fired before Bargs gets traded.
It still confuses the hell out of me how he can be SO good for stretches and then so bad.
It's funny, it was the Dallas game that finally put me off him completely. I looked at the box score (I'll admit I skipped the 4th quarter) and he had something like 23/9/3/1. And yet, it was such a horribly bad game overall that after years of supporting him I just gave up and started hoping to see he's been traded every day when I wake up.
I will agree with the sentiment that he plateaued (sp?) 4 years ago.
The Dallas game was one. That long rebound in the first quarter made me lose my dinner. But the sign of things to come was really the first game isos with David West in crunch time. Clearly Casey wanted to see just how much of a man he was (clearly not signaling) for help D and Bargs failed miserably.Quote:
Superchunk wrote:
If he did... He'd be a hall of famerQuote:
Raptor_11 wrote:
Trade bargnani or fire BC one or the other
Trade Derozan. We'd get more for him and he's worse offensively.Quote:
NoPropsneeded wrote:
At least he plays slightly better defense and actually does things other than score. Bargnani can't rebound, defend and he's very unefficient on offense. I used to like bargnani but now I want him gone. Derozan is 23 and he has at least some room to grow. Bargnani hasn't improved in 4 years and he's 27. Plus bargnani's shitty defence hurts us more cause he has to guard the paintQuote:
KeonClark wrote:
7 people voted "no"??? Who are these crazies??? Time to wake up from their psychedelic-induced trance.
Anyone who disagrees with the statement, "Bargnani will never be better than what he currently is", is either new to the Raptors, or such a diehard Bargnani fan that admitting what is blatantly obvious to all, would be crushing his/her soul.
In math, it means relatively stable. In sports when a player has plateaued usually that is referring to a player who has reached his peak and won't get any better.Quote:
Soft Euro wrote:
There are some areas here that I do agree with. I would rename this thread "Has Bargnani Plateaued as a Toronto Raptor" and that would be a resounding yes. If Dwane Casey is here to stay, which all signs point to being yes, then Bargnani should be on his way out. He's not going to get any better in this system.Quote:
Soft Euro wrote:
As I said, I am one of those. I think he can play at the average level of last year and right now he is playing below that level. So he regressed. As ebrian pointed out to me I might have interpreted 'plateaued' wrongly in which case I should vote yes. As I don't think he'll ever play better than last year's average for more than a few games.Quote:
Nilanka wrote:
Sometimes he plays well, other times he doesn't. Can he play better than he's currently playing? Absolutely....we saw it last year. Can he maintain that high level for any longer than a handful of games? We have 6 years of evidence to suggest otherwise.Quote:
Soft Euro wrote:
It's this on and off cycle that I refer to as "plateauing". I highly doubt that Bargnani has anything left up his sleeve that we haven't seen before.
I did not bother answering the poll because of this post.Quote:
Nilanka wrote:
I'm with Soft Euro, being in the minority who think that Bargnani can (and will) play at the 'good' level he played at last season. 3/5 players in the starting lineup are new, they're playing a new offensive system and he was slowed by illness (those first couple games you could see he had no energy and zero lift on his shots), but he's turned it around the past couple games. I'm not sold yet, but I'd like to see a string of games where he's healthy and playing with a consistent lineup, before joining the 'trade Bargnani' team.
For me, as Nilanka points out, the biggest question is consistency. Assuming he does return to the good form he showed in the first 13 games last season, then I think he will have plateued, as far as skill is concerned. However, I think he can technically improve further, by improving his consistency and becoming more efficient with his scoring. I think his man defense is pretty good and he's even had a few decent rebounding games.
I think the problem is that he's got so much working against him
- he was a #1 overall pick (not his fault)
- his destiny is forever linked to BC's destiny (not his fault)
- he was asked to be the face of the franchise and the #1 guy after Bosh left (not his fault)
- he is one of the few holdovers to the last success the team had and the horrible years that followed (not his fault)
- he is a quiet, finesse player with a calm, cool personality, playing on a team in a city that prefers the emotional, gritty, lunchpail style players (ie: Raptors - Reggie, JYD, Leafs - Gilmour, Clark)
I don't think it's fair to hold him up to other #1 overall picks. However, I absolutely agree that he should be held accountable to give 100% effort 100% of the time, playing up to the standard that he established in those few games last season that he's capable of playing at. Given his skillset, age and decent contract, I just wouldn't give up on him just yet... though I maintain that this season will be the last I defend him, if he doesn't prove himself capable of playing to that standard.
I think the sad truth to polls and threads like this is that there are people like me who had given up on Bargnani 3-4 years ago, and now in the 7th year of his career there's still some crazies out there who think there's more coming.
I wonder if there are employees within the organization who pleaded with Colangelo not to sign Bargnani again after his rookie contract. I sure hope so. Otherwise there is no hope for this franchise..