Twitterers Unite! #tradeBargnani #freeRaptorfans

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enlightenment wrote:

Matt52, I found that article to be whiny. Raptors have at least made it to the 2nd round before, as well as experienced being division champions. Cant say the same for the Warriors or Wizards.

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The Warriors knocked off the #1 seed in 2007 and went to 2nd round - same year Raps won division.

Washington made 4 consecutive playoff appearances from 2005-2008.

One division title in 10 years (and 2 first round exits!) is hardly anything to be excited about - especially the last 4 seasons. The only hope that remains from last season is JV. The losing continues, the defense is gone, and as of right now so is the financial flexibility.

I can see how the article is perceived as whiny but I can relate. When all your optimism and hopes for the team are repeatedly proven to be inaccurate to put it lightly and an absolute failure to be honest, it is frustrating to say the least.

This is the whole problem as a fan right now:

"....and so has my will to get outraged over all the things that have pissed off Raptors fans in the past decade. Too many of those frustrations show no signs of going away, and I’m tired of pointing out problems that almost everybody except for the employees of this franchise seem capable of understanding — or willing to change because ongoing profitability makes those changes unnecessary."

The Raptors continue to make money despite its failures. Great for ownership, horrible for fans.

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Matt52 wrote:

The Raptors continue to make money despite its failures. Great for ownership, horrible for fans.

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Classic Toronto team syndrome. At least the Argos are good this year, and apparently the Jays are going to be. Raptors and Leafs...not so much.

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Matt52 wrote:

The Warriors knocked off the #1 seed in 2007 and went to 2nd round - same year Raps won division.

Washington made 4 consecutive playoff appearances from 2005-2008.

One division title in 10 years (and 2 first round exits!) is hardly anything to be excited about - especially the last 4 seasons. The only hope that remains from last season is JV. The losing continues, the defense is gone, and as of right now so is the financial flexibility.

I can see how the article is perceived as whiny but I can relate. When all your optimism and hopes for the team are repeatedly proven to be inaccurate to put it lightly and an absolute failure to be honest, it is frustrating to say the least.

This is the whole problem as a fan right now:

"....and so has my will to get outraged over all the things that have pissed off Raptors fans in the past decade. Too many of those frustrations show no signs of going away, and I’m tired of pointing out problems that almost everybody except for the employees of this franchise seem capable of understanding — or willing to change because ongoing profitability makes those changes unnecessary."

The Raptors continue to make money despite its failures. Great for ownership, horrible for fans.

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I don't agree with your last sentence. Raptors make a LOT more money when they are winning. This is a fact. Do you remember those playoff days? Everyone wearing red and white, the entire city I felt was in that stadium.
My point is, that I truly believe every attempt to make the Raptors better has been genuine.
I think the major failures that brought us from the 47 win raps to now is the TJ Ford for Jermain Oneal trade, and then the season we wasted on Hedo. BC tried to ride the wave of good fortune, and ended at a stage where we had to go back to rebuilding. We've been at that stage since Bosh left and Derozan was drafted. Now, we are back on the development route, and BC has one more chance of making it work.

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enlightenment wrote:

I don't agree with your last sentence. Raptors make a LOT more money when they are winning. This is a fact. Do you remember those playoff days? Everyone wearing red and white, the entire city I felt was in that stadium.
My point is, that I truly believe every attempt to make the Raptors better has been genuine.
I think the major failures that brought us from the 47 win raps to now is the TJ Ford for Jermain Oneal trade, and then the season we wasted on Hedo. BC tried to ride the wave of good fortune, and ended at a stage where we had to go back to rebuilding. We've been at that stage since Bosh left and Derozan was drafted. Now, we are back on the development route, and BC has one more chance of making it work.

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I don't doubt the bold.

In my opinion, there is no sense of desperation on the part of MLSE for any meaningful change because they make money off the team. If Toronto is operating in the red I bet you a whole $1 there is meaningful change - I don't know if it is a trade or a firing but something BIG happens.

I'm fine on the development route if the team is improving. Right now there is regression as a whole. I think it starts with Casey and continually trying to work with a centre piece that does not fit his strengths as a coach.

#tradeBargnani #freeRaptorfans

No one can guarantee though, that a meaningful and 'BIG' change is equivalent to a better team.

I think teams that show they are willing to fall into their fans biopolar hysteria are the teams that continue to set themselves back multiple years before becoming contenders.
Having a new Coach every 4 years, new GM, new Star, new Focus, is dangerous for a team that needs a stable rebuild.

I agree that changes are necessary to adapt to a growing league, but those changes have to compliment what we've got, not destroy it.

BC gets a lot of flak, but I respect him for keeping his ground, admitting his mistakes, and attempting to fix them.
He should be held accountable for multiple instances of disproportional hyping in offseasons, but he has always attempted to find the best for the team.
I fell into the J.O and Hedo trap as well. Im sure many of us did. Can you really blame Bryant for Hedo not showing up after such an amazing playoffs?
J.O was a risk, and obviously didnt play out.
These were major set back in our franchise, and if you can overlook them, you'd see BC's genuine commitment to building this team right.

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enlightenment wrote:

No one can guarantee though, that a meaningful and 'BIG' change is equivalent to a better team.

I think teams that show they are willing to fall into their fans biopolar hysteria are the teams that continue to set themselves back multiple years before becoming contenders.
Having a new Coach every 4 years, new GM, new Star, new Focus, is dangerous for a team that needs a stable rebuild.

I agree that changes are necessary to adapt to a growing league, but those changes have to compliment what we've got, not destroy it.

BC gets a lot of flak, but I respect him for keeping his ground, admitting his mistakes, and attempting to fix them.
He should be held accountable for multiple instances of disproportional hyping in offseasons, but he has always attempted to find the best for the team.
I fell into the J.O and Hedo trap as well. Im sure many of us did. Can you really blame Bryant for Hedo not showing up after such an amazing playoffs?
J.O was a risk, and obviously didnt play out.
These were major set back in our franchise, and if you can overlook them, you'd see BC's genuine commitment to building this team right.

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There was a time when I would have agreed but not anymore. I am more than willing to admit I might likely be burnt out as a fan. Too many excuses that enable losing year in and year out. In a very simplistic view, the reason it is tolerated is because the team makes money year in and year out.

BC is getting a lot of flak because it has been 5 years of the same shit with different parts surrounding the same centre piece with the same results.

Stability has hardly been equal to success or progress in Toronto.

Remember this thread title: #tradeBargnani #freeRaptorfans. Bargnani is everything this franchise should be moving away from.

Until BC does this, I have little faith in anything the organization does moving forward.

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Matt52 wrote:

There was a time when I would have agreed but not anymore. I am more than willing to admit I might likely be burnt out as a fan. Too many excuses that enable losing year in and year out. In a very simplistic view, the reason it is tolerated is because the team makes money year in and year out.

BC is getting a lot of flak because it has been 5 years of the same shit with different parts surrounding the same centre piece with the same results.

Stability has hardly been equal to success or progress in Toronto.

Remember this thread title: #tradeBargnani #freeRaptorfans. Bargnani is everything this franchise should be moving away from.

Until BC does this, I have little faith in anything the organization does moving forward.

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Toronto has never experienced stability. Not with this team at least!
Every year there is a wild change of direction (do you remember young guns for goodness sake?)
I think we've found the best direction with this roster than has been found on all other raptors rosters, save maybe the vince carter/oakley era.
If Bargnani is that consistent piece you're referring to, then I agree. HE MUST GE JETTISONED. Ive said it before, BC has until this offseason to accomplish it before I officially call major drafting bias.

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Q: Hi Doug. I appreciate your basketball knowledge and opinion.

Andrea Bargnani - so frustratingly inconsistent! not being the greatest defender but making his shots is bearable. Not making his shots and being outworked defensively is just unprofessional. Does he have off court issues? Is he really a good team mate? Is it time for a change of address for him?

Herb H, Whitby

A: Probably wished you’d held on to this after his 34 points Friday, I bet.

http://thestar.blogs.com/raptors/201...nd-mail-1.html

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Doug doesn't get it.

er bad response from Doug.

though I bet he gets enough Bargnani emails.

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@RaptorsPR @Raptors Am I the only one hoping BC gets the 7-year itch with Bargnani? #tradeBargnani

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If I am not the only one, don't forget to send your tweet.

One decent offensive game and the movement loses steam.

Tsk tsk tsk.

C'mon Raptor fans.

You know the routine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=Rp6-wG5LLqE

#BargnaniforJSmoove

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enlightenment wrote:

No one can guarantee though, that a meaningful and 'BIG' change is equivalent to a better team.

I think teams that show they are willing to fall into their fans biopolar hysteria are the teams that continue to set themselves back multiple years before becoming contenders.
Having a new Coach every 4 years, new GM, new Star, new Focus, is dangerous for a team that needs a stable rebuild.

I agree that changes are necessary to adapt to a growing league, but those changes have to compliment what we've got, not destroy it.

BC gets a lot of flak, but I respect him for keeping his ground, admitting his mistakes, and attempting to fix them.
He should be held accountable for multiple instances of disproportional hyping in offseasons, but he has always attempted to find the best for the team.
I fell into the J.O and Hedo trap as well. Im sure many of us did. Can you really blame Bryant for Hedo not showing up after such an amazing playoffs?
J.O was a risk, and obviously didnt play out.
These were major set back in our franchise, and if you can overlook them, you'd see BC's genuine commitment to building this team right.

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Of course Colangelo deserves the blame for those failures.

Jermaine O'Neal was injury prone for FOUR seasons before the Raptors traded for him. His production had already begun to bottom out. He went from being a 24 and 10 guy to a 13 and 7 player over the same time frame of those injuries. Part of being an effective executive is having the foresight to recognize these types of trends and acting accordingly, not just getting caught up in the fact that O'Neal had made a bunch of all-star games in his career. You can frame it as a risk that didn't work out or whatever, but that doesn't excuse Colangelo in the least.

Turkoglu had almost a decade of play in the NBA before he landed in Toronto. He was inconsistent or average for the majority of that time, with the exception of his last two seasons in Orlando when he coincidentally enough, stood to benefit immensely from signing a huge deal during his impending free agency. He was an ideal candidate to stop giving a shit once he got his pay day and what do you know - that is exactly what happened. Once again, I feel that Colangelo really lacked foresight and does not deserve to be excused.

Since when did "Well I didn't see that one coming!" become a legitimate excuse for ineptitude?

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Fully wrote:

Of course Colangelo deserves the blame for those failures.

Jermaine O'Neal was injury prone for FOUR seasons before the Raptors traded for him. His production had already begun to bottom out. He went from being a 24 and 10 guy to a 13 and 7 player over the same time frame of those injuries. Part of being an effective executive is having the foresight to recognize these types of trends and acting accordingly, not just getting caught up in the fact that O'Neal had made a bunch of all-star games in his career. You can frame it as a risk that didn't work out or whatever, but that doesn't excuse Colangelo in the least.

Turkoglu had almost a decade of play in the NBA before he landed in Toronto. He was inconsistent or average for the majority of that time, with the exception of his last two seasons in Orlando when he coincidentally enough, stood to benefit immensely from signing a huge deal during his impending free agency. He was an ideal candidate to stop giving a shit once he got his pay day and what do you know - that is exactly what happened. Once again, I feel that Colangelo really lacked foresight and does not deserve to be excused.

Since when did "Well I didn't see that one coming!" become a legitimate excuse for ineptitude?

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And to add to this, BC's intentions and level of commitment have nothing to do with anything. When evaluating a GM, the only thing that matters are wins. Everything else are excuses.

GMs make risks and some dont work. My point about genuine intentions to make us better, is when Matt questioned the teams ability to continue to make money while losing as the reason our team fails to improve itself. I disagreed, and have always saw BC as an active GM that doesn't want to lose.
He admitted both his JO and Hedo mistakes and recovered by sending them off immediately, rather than show 'GM' pride in them.

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Nilanka wrote:

And to add to this, BC's intentions and level of commitment have nothing to do with anything. When evaluating a GM, the only thing that matters are wins. Everything else are excuses.

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i think our GMs intentions are very relevant

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enlightenment wrote:

i think our GMs intentions are very relevant

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Not really, because every GM in the league has good intentions. What ultimately matters is how successful they are at putting a winning team on the court and Colangelo has done a very poor job during his time in Toronto.

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enlightenment wrote:

GMs make risks and some dont work. My point about genuine intentions to make us better, is when Matt questioned the teams ability to continue to make money while losing as the reason our team fails to improve itself. I disagreed, and have always saw BC as an active GM that doesn't want to lose.
He admitted both his JO and Hedo mistakes and recovered by sending them off immediately, rather than show 'GM' pride in them.

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Of course Colangelo doesn't want to lose; What player/executive/owner in the NBA does? My point remains is that front office executives have never, and shouldn't be, judged on their intentions no matter how genuine they are. If that was the case, pretty much every terrible move in NBA history can be justified with the rationale of "I thought it would work out better than it did!"... Babcock certainly didn't think he was drafting a stiff when he opted for Hoffa, does he get a pass too?

You can give him credit for turning around and trading JO/Hedo so quickly after acquiring them, but that's just taking one step forward and then three steps back in my eyes and doesn't make me feel any better about the deals in retrospect.
We gave up Ford/Nesterovic/Hibbert on a rookie scale deal to get O'Neal and received a 2 and 1/2 month Shawn Marion rental in return for him when they traded him to the Heat (plus had to give up another first rounder to Miami just to get them to take a miserable JO off of our hands). That is a huge net loss for the franchise overall, and Colangelo was the man behind it on all sides.

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@RaptorsPR @Raptors He gotta go, he gotta go-o-o, he gotta go, he gotta go-o-o, its check out time (2pac) #tradeBargnani #freeRaptorfans

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=UAI4VJ-M230


#tradeBargnani #freeRaptorfans

#tradebargnani has been trending since the end of the game. LOL

i don't understand twitter, but I hate bargnani, can someone explain?

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Doc Naismith wrote:

#tradebargnani has been trending since the end of the game. LOL

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As usual, RR is ahead of the curve! lol