Exactly.Quote:
Agrippa wrote:
Exactly.Quote:
Agrippa wrote:
I don't overvalue those 2 at all. Bargs and Calderon are Bargs and Calderon. It's not because they are in the Raptors that we necessarily overvalue them. Bargnani is a 7 footer who's a good scorer and who can shoot lights out when he's into it. He got really good abilities for a man of his size and he's quicker than most PF/C. Calderon is one of the best playmakers in the league and he's a leader. He's a really good shooter and he takes care of the ball like nobody else.Quote:
footarez wrote:
That's what those two players are, and this is not subjective at all.
Jose is 31 and has had dealt with injuries the past few seasons. He can't keep up with most of the starting PGs in the league and is a liability at the end of games on the defensive end. If you guys are expecting a Boozer (why would you want him anyway?), Deng (a borderline all-star SF), Al Jefferson/Mo Williams, or even a lottery pick...you guys will be very disappointed
Well those are clearly the ones that won't happen, but if you look at the trades with Detroit, Washington or Cleveland, I think both teams would take a serious look at it. I'd love the one with Cleveland.Quote:
BD12 wrote:
Calderon, Bargnani, TRoss, and Kleiza to Chicago for Deng and Boozer. I think that's a realistic scenario and I would make that trade today.
The trade with Cleveland is actually also interesting and seems more realistic to me. We could argue that you overvalue them and I undervalue them but bargnani is inefficiant scorer (stats for that can be seen all over the bargnani thread) with very weak defense especially for his position. I agree he can shoot the lights out but unfortunately he is into it not very often. He has good abilities but he is not showing them often enough and he also does have inabilities - such as help defense. On Calderon we agree here but if I may add that he gets injured often, he may start to regress and his contract is not that great. As primary ball stopper on defense he is also very weak but you are rigth that a lot of teams can and should use him. I like Calderon a lot and if we can package him with bargnani for any of the trades you proposed I would scream Raptors win x 3 times Chuck Swirsky style.Quote:
charlesnba23 wrote:
I'd rather not have Boozer to be honest
Personally I think that's an awful trade. I'd rather have Bargnani than Boozer and, for a rebuilding team, would rather have Ross than Deng (too injury-prone for my liking and getting old). I get that some people overvalue Raptors players but, in this case, I think you're severely undervaluing them and/or overvaluing Chicago's two players.Quote:
optifan wrote:
So, let me get this straight: He's playing great ball, knows how to run the team, crazy assist (54 in 4 games..before the last one) and knows how to run a team. So, it's Jose's fault that we lose games? Uhhhh, no. Trade Bargs. Cats need to stop getting trade-happy like this NBA2K13. ***. If it wasn't for Jose, we'd look sillier on the floor, on a nightly basis.
The way I see it, Boozer can be our starting PF for the next two years at which point hopefully Davis or Amir can take the starting spot. Deng is only 27, same age as Bargnani and is our answer finally at the SF spot. His numbers are fantastic and he's a good defender. In my opinion a better player overall than Bargnani. The only part I'd miss is Ross but only because of his potential, which may or may not be realized years down the road.Quote:
CalgaryRapsFan wrote:
I think that Calderon by himself is a big chip, particularly becasue of his expiring contract. Next years free agent class is pretty good with guys like Chris Paul, Manu Ginobli, Josh Smith, and Andrew Bynum and don't forget Dwight who is still a free agent after this season. That is Jose's value, he's a good point guard that a team can rent out for the rest of the season then use his cap hit to pick up a free agent. If you add Bargs to that deal you really lose the value he provides becasue of Bargs' cap hit. If you want to move both of them, it makes a lot more sense to trade them seperately, Calderon to a playoff team that wants to be good and still make a splash in the offseason and Bargnani to a team that is looking for that extra scroing punch and has an asset (either a pick or a guy they don't have minutes for that is pretty good) that we are interested in.
For Calderon, something with Danny Granger could work since Indiana needs a better point and Granger is not a necessary piece anymore. We'd probably have to throw in Ross or Ed Davis or something.
For Bargnani, I think Atlanta could be interested. They need a big man and may be willing to trade an expiring Devin Harris and pieces for Bargs. This would be more to jettison Bargs and have cap space next year than to actually get a good player. Actually in this scenario it would make sense to keep Jose's expiring and go after Josh Smith in free agency.
So Jose is as good as Lowry, including a much worse contract dollar wise and the fact hes a FA next year, plus we should get another player. That sounds about right ..... ?????Quote:
Agrippa wrote:
Thank you. I agree with youQuote:
footarez wrote:
I wouldn't want to trade Calderon OR Bargnani until Lowry and Fields are fully healthy. Mostly because of the fact they are the reason we are still in games(well not really Bargs, but rather pckg. him w/ Jose). When those two are healthy, then I'll pull a trade. And when that happens, any of the ones you mentioned would be perfect. I'd personally prefer the Smith/Jefferson ones. But if any of these trades are happening, it's either the Clevelands trade, or the Chicago trade.
can we throw in Matt Devlin with that package to sweeten up the deal?Quote:
golden wrote:
that amare and shumpert one is awesome imo... is amare great on d? hell no but he could fill the void of scoring left by bargs and by doing it in the paint and also rebounding like we need. My only problem with this is his giant contract mixed with his age. Reduces our flexibility but shumpert could be big add as well hes a DC kinda player.
the void he fills is "who do we play at pf" because he spends all his time in street clothes we don't need to worry about the logjamQuote:
Burnit482 wrote:
How about Bargs + Calderon + Davis to Miami for Bosh + Cole - We get good old Bosh back who can help us get to the playoff. In the offseason, we get Carter, T-Mac, Arroyo, while give Charlie V the vet minimum to play for us.
OR
Bargs + Calderon + Ross for LaMarcus Aldridge + Wes Matthews.
Only in dreams
"no call"Quote:
ball4life wrote:
don't mind the miami trade but i think we should grab james instead. he answers our sf problem. then we can sign him to an extension and retire his jersey.Quote:
tenforthewin wrote: