Lakers failing experiment - trades might be coming... with Toronto??

with the internet buzzing about Gasol's diminishing performance, there were numerous propositions to trade Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani for Gasol. Here are the reasons, in my opinion, why that would not be a good idea for Toronto Raptors:
1. Purpose and Production: analysts on 'Yahoo Sports' contend that shift to power forward playing position has deteriorated gasol's game. He has no required athleticism, perimeter shot' or required explosiveness. While paired with Bynum, he was able to change in between the center and PF positions, and compensate for his deficiencies. When paired with a true center, traditional, stationery, and single dimensional, such as Howard, Gasol obviously shows that he can not match his previous year's productivity numbers.
2. Sense of Entitlement: Early in his career, with Memphis, Gasol complained in public and demanded a trade. He sulked, pouted, and disrespected his club. What do you think will be his attitude in Toronto? I also predict he would turn into an exclusive jump shooter, and we already have plenty of those (latest 3 point perimeter shooting addition to the roster: Amir Johnson). Furthermore, playing on Lakers comes with perks: getting full body-guard like protection from NBA refs is important one. That can not be said for Toronto - we have been deprived of the fair officiating for years now. Documented.
3. Personality: abbrasive, dismissive, and difficult to coach. I would never give up on Jose for Pau. Would consider a trade for Marc Gasol, though.
4. More pressing Need: give Valanciunas chance. We have Amir and Ed, and sometimes Bargnani there. What we need is a star wing player, so if we are keen to trade Bargain, package him for Josh Smith, Rudy Gay, or Gerald Wallace type of a player.

I think he is much older and more mature than his Grizzly days. I really can't see Pau right now being a 'sore' sport, he seems much more the professional type.

Id also say he is one of the better people to coach.

Why I like Gasol is, because we need a veteran, experienced player, that can add some stability to our line up. He would do great with Valanciunas, and can ONLY be a positive to his development. He will also add some wins to our team, which is overall great for our development of a 'winning culture'.

The only real negative is he is 20 million for the next two, but the flip side, he is a 20mil expiring contract next season.

Id grab Gasol, assuming we cannot grab a game-changing SF.

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database_666 wrote:

with the internet buzzing about Gasol's diminishing performance, there were numerous propositions to trade Jose Calderon and Andrea Bargnani for Gasol. Here are the reasons, in my opinion, why that would not be a good idea for Toronto Raptors:
1. Purpose and Production: analysts on 'Yahoo Sports' contend that shift to power forward playing position has deteriorated gasol's game. He has no required athleticism, perimeter shot' or required explosiveness. While paired with Bynum, he was able to change in between the center and PF positions, and compensate for his deficiencies. When paired with a true center, traditional, stationery, and single dimensional, such as Howard, Gasol obviously shows that he can not match his previous year's productivity numbers.
2. Sense of Entitlement: Early in his career, with Memphis, Gasol complained in public and demanded a trade. He sulked, pouted, and disrespected his club. What do you think will be his attitude in Toronto? I also predict he would turn into an exclusive jump shooter, and we already have plenty of those (latest 3 point perimeter shooting addition to the roster: Amir Johnson). Furthermore, playing on Lakers comes with perks: getting full body-guard like protection from NBA refs is important one. That can not be said for Toronto - we have been deprived of the fair officiating for years now. Documented.
3. Personality: abbrasive, dismissive, and difficult to coach. I would never give up on Jose for Pau. Would consider a trade for Marc Gasol, though.
4. More pressing Need: give Valanciunas chance. We have Amir and Ed, and sometimes Bargnani there. What we need is a star wing player, so if we are keen to trade Bargain, package him for Josh Smith, Rudy Gay, or Gerald Wallace type of a player.

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Agree with some of the points.

I dont think he'll have a problem playing alongside JV. Since its only JV's 1st year, he hasnt really established himself as a true center. Although i want him to be, you can still see him sometimes camping out on the perimeter and letting the guards penetrate or Bargnani work the lowpost. Im not saying JV should be tailored to play this way, what im saying is with Pau, JV still has flexibility on position. Pau can move to the perimeter when JV is working the inside, at least close enough to go for the OR, unlike bigs who camp out on the 3PT line, wink wink.

You maybe right. He can whine coz playing for a lottery team is definitely no fun. Or, he can flip and bring his best since he's sort of playing for a contract. Im sure, much like JSmoove, he wants to get one more fat contract before he becomes NBA fodder and starts signing for the min.

He probably could be locker room cancer, or, he maybe realizes that his teammates may be looking up to him for guidance since he is the legit veteran on this team. He's been to the western conference finals and won a championship. I think he acts that way in LA because there is so much competition on that team. Of course, you wouldnt want to just lay down if you know you are as good as the others. On a team like the Raptors, nobody's going to challenge him coz most, if not all the players are still trying to make a name for themselves.

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enlightenment wrote:

I think he is much older and more mature than his Grizzly days. I really can't see Pau right now being a 'sore' sport, he seems much more the professional type.

Id also say he is one of the better people to coach.

Why I like Gasol is, because we need a veteran, experienced player, that can add some stability to our line up. He would do great with Valanciunas, and can ONLY be a positive to his development. He will also add some wins to our team, which is overall great for our development of a 'winning culture'.

The only real negative is he is 20 million for the next two, but the flip side, he is a 20mil expiring contract next season.

Id grab Gasol, assuming we cannot grab a game-changing SF.

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Gasol is also a perennial all-star. Having an all-star with an expiring contract is definitely a very nice trade chip.

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planetmars wrote:

Gasol is also a perennial all-star. Having an all-star with an expiring contract is definitely a very nice trade chip.

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What scares me is that he's out indefinitely with tendonitis in both knees. That's never good for an athlete over 30. I fear a repeat of Olajuwon, but at least that time we didn't have to giveup Bargnani (who is still a good young player on a decent contract, despite all the negatives). It's just too much of a risk.

I think we would be a better team with bargs on the bench and other players getting his minutes. So any trade where we get ANYTHING for him is worth it. He is consistently a -wp48 player so not having him around should be an improvement if you believe in that sort of thing.

With the message from Lakers brass that Gasol needs to adjust or be traded, the time is ripe for a team to pounce in. Gasol, even at 32, is a very good player. He's smart, savy and plays on the blocks. Those traits tend to last longer in the NBA than the high fliers who get by on speed and athleticism.

At the $19 Mill ($22 with the trade kicker) he is one of the highest paid players in the NBA, but let's be honest, how many players in the league aren't overpaid these days? On the Raps, we have at least 3 players that are overpaid (Jose 2 $10, LK at $4.6, and Fields at $6) and one that is trending downwards towards that (Bargnani).

In my opinion, trading for Gasol makes sense in any of the scenarios thrown out there so far. The best reason to trade for Gasol is that he is the veteran presence with winning credentials that this team has lacked since.....well probably ever. We need a mentor for the young guys. Who better than Gasol? Ok, now of those names you just spouted off, who are we likely to have a chance of getting on our team?

Jose, Bargnani, Kleiza, Amir/Ed should all be on the table. Bargs and LK are obviously not in the team future anymore. Jose is the expiring chip to get it done, and free's up cap space. Amir or ED will likely go as well, but it wouldn't bother me if neither or either one was dealt if it makes the team better.

I love the idea of getting a third team, like Houston, involved, and it certainly makes sense in some ways. But more than anything, the Raptors need to get a winner and winners like Gasol aren't often available. Add in the fact that we have the perfect fit for D'Antoni in Bargnani (who we want rid of) and it sounds like a match made in heaven.

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Axel wrote:

With the message from Lakers brass that Gasol needs to adjust or be traded, the time is ripe for a team to pounce in. Gasol, even at 32, is a very good player. He's smart, savy and plays on the blocks. Those traits tend to last longer in the NBA than the high fliers who get by on speed and athleticism.

At the $19 Mill ($22 with the trade kicker) he is one of the highest paid players in the NBA, but let's be honest, how many players in the league aren't overpaid these days? On the Raps, we have at least 3 players that are overpaid (Jose 2 $10, LK at $4.6, and Fields at $6) and one that is trending downwards towards that (Bargnani).

In my opinion, trading for Gasol makes sense in any of the scenarios thrown out there so far. The best reason to trade for Gasol is that he is the veteran presence with winning credentials that this team has lacked since.....well probably ever. We need a mentor for the young guys. Who better than Gasol? Ok, now of those names you just spouted off, who are we likely to have a chance of getting on our team?

Jose, Bargnani, Kleiza, Amir/Ed should all be on the table. Bargs and LK are obviously not in the team future anymore. Jose is the expiring chip to get it done, and free's up cap space. Amir or ED will likely go as well, but it wouldn't bother me if neither or either one was dealt if it makes the team better.

I love the idea of getting a third team, like Houston, involved, and it certainly makes sense in some ways. But more than anything, the Raptors need to get a winner and winners like Gasol aren't often available. Add in the fact that we have the perfect fit for D'Antoni in Bargnani (who we want rid of) and it sounds like a match made in heaven.

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His trade kicker is void. He is already a max player and you can't make more than max.

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Matt52 wrote:

His trade kicker is void. He is already a max player and you can't make more than max.

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So then why does it exist? I've seen it mentioned in a couple of articles (non-forum posts). I'm not contradicting you, I'm just curious. You seem to be the resident Cap-Guru. Perhaps you can replace BC?

#Matt52forRapsGM

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Axel wrote:

So then why does it exist? I've seen it mentioned in a couple of articles (non-forum posts). I'm not contradicting you, I'm just curious. You seem to be the resident Cap-Guru. Perhaps you can replace BC?

#Matt52forRapsGM

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It is just one of those things agents always look for in a contract.

From HoopsWorld.com:

Pau Gasol $19,000,000 $19,285,850 15% MTK

MTK = Moot Trade Kicker

I really hope you are being sarcastic on the GM bit. That would be bad for everyone.

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Matt52 wrote:

I really hope you are being sarcastic on the GM bit. That would be bad for everyone.

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Can't be any worse than BC at this point. At least you admit that trading Bargnani must happen. You'd be a fan favourite if you pulled that off.

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Rival executives believe the most likely landing spot for Gasol is Toronto, which could offer Andrea Bargnani in return and bolster the Lakers' point-guard deficiency with Jose Calderon, who is backing up Kyle Lowry. Sources say Raptors GM Bryan Colangelo has shown no willingness to part with Bargnani, but if pressure mounts for him to bolster the team's youth movement and win now by adding a veteran with All-Star credentials like Gasol, that could change.

On one hand, if Lakers fans thought Gasol was soft, wait until they get a load of Bargnani. But he's younger (27), makes half as much (though he has one more year on his deal) and would be the ideal floor-spacer to open the middle for Howard, who is uncomfortable sharing the low block. Gasol fancies himself a post player, and his range is decidedly less than Bargnani's, which makes him uneasy when pushed far out on the perimeter.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/2...ack-to-reality

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Interesting. Good source too.

As long as one of Kleiza/Amir/Fields was sent out and not Calderon, I could live with it.

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Juan

Hey Alex, love your chats. I am not saying the Lakers can’t work as currently constructed and I like the idea of Pau for Bargnani and Calderon, or possibly trying to pry a younger piece like Terrance Ross as opposed to Calderon…. But my question is, what about a smaller move like seldom used Omri Casspi? What would it take for the Lakers to get him? Maybe one of their veteran point guards?? Jordan Hill??

Alex Kennedy

I think a smaller move is more likely for the Lakers. Pau Gasol’s trade value is at an all-time low right now. Why would a team like the Raptors trade away valuable pieces like Andrea Bargnani and Jose Calderon for an aging, underperforming 32-year-old who is owed $19 million this year and a $19.28 million next year? I just can’t see the Lakers finding a trade partner who’s willing to take on Gasol and give up significant pieces.

As far as making a smaller move, like acquiring Omri Casspi, that makes sense. Casspi has fallen out of the rotation in Cleveland and has said that he’s looking forward to free agency. He’s going to be a guy that’s easy to acquire and he can stretch the floor for the Lakers. Either that or sign one of the many talented free agents still on the market. Right now, the Lakers need to wait for Steve Nash to return from injury and make a small move or two, not huge trades that will only extend the adjustment period they’re going through.

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Emanuel

Should the Lakers trade Pau Gasol and Darius Morris or Steve Blake to the Raptors for Andrea Bargnani and Jose Calderon?

Alex Kennedy

Of course the Lakers should trade Pau Gasol for Andrea Bargnani and Jose Calderon if they have the opportunity to do that, but why would the Raptors do that deal? It doesn’t make any sense for Toronto.

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http://www.hoopsworld.com/nba-chat-w...kennedy-12512/

I very much agree with the bold.

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BadDinosaur wrote:

Lakers experiment seems not to work. This experiment might go on though until the trade deadline. Just for consideration:

Lakers lost yet another game. This time against the Orlando Magic - Dwight's old team. So the LA experiment seems to be failing. No progress is visible. They can play offense in stretches, but they struggle often. On D you sometimes see Dwight doing his thing, but otherwise it's just terrible (How do you allow a Magic team to drop 40 points on you in the 4th quarter on your home court?). They have fired Mike Brown after just 5 games. D'Antoni hasn't been doing any better. They had the possibility to hire Phil Jackson, but...

Funny thing is... now, even if they wanted to get Phil Jackson back at whatever cost, they wouldn't be able to... not after how they took D'Antoni OVER HIM (should read-up, if you missed that story...). Besides, any attempt to hire a new coach would make the front office look foolish. So, the only remaining logical thing to do is... major trades! I might be wrong, but I sense that this time no one is safe, not even Kobe.

The idea to blow it all up and REBUILD, since this experiment doesn't seem to work and especially since Howard is not guaranteed to stay, must be especially enticing. Lakers have enough assets to package their stars (old stars) with their bad assets and get plenty of YOUNG "elite" talent in return. In my eyes it would be foolish (at this point) not do something like that. The experiment might go on though until the trade deadline.

Let's be honest. Kobe hasn't much more in the tank. He can play one more, maybe 2 seasons at "mamba" level (major injuries possible though at his age), then he'll surely turn into a mere mortal SG before he retires for good. Pau is in a similar situation if not worse... Artest (Metta World Peace) is already beyond his time and so is Nash. If they try it for more than this year, their assets TODAY will be hard to trade TOMORROW. They will get stuck and start gradually declining, then they will start rebuilding. In this way they would lose a decade before they, if lucky, become relevant again.

If there is franchise that is known to be bold enough to pull the trigger of that magnitude, it's the Lakers. They would get basically anyone they wanted in return with the exception being LeBron.

They could of course convince Howard to sign with the Lakers by showing him their commitment to build around him and leave the Kobe era behind them. They could also consider Dwight as impossible to keep, so they just might keep Kobe.

Point is, they might trade everyone from their roster and it's interesting to think about how the Raptors could be involved in this. But I really don't see any assets on the Raptors the Lakers might be interested in, if the Lakers go ALL IN. But if they elect to do only smaller trades, like trade Gasol or trade Artest or anything else, then the Raptors could be a potential trading partner.

So what's your thoughts?

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Apparently Nash was promised that Gasol would not be traded. It would be nice if Nash got a taste of what it is like to be misled.

could a trade of Bargs/Kleiza/Fields for Gasol work? Maybe asking too much but they would work in the D'Antoni system

Imagine stripping our team of our worst contracts?? getting an allstar (trade chip next year or having an expiring contract so that we can pay Lowry and maybe Iggy/Deng in 2014 free agency)

BC do the right thing

There's some logic in a Bargnani/Calderon/Kleiza for Gasol/someone deal for both teams, but if I were the Lakers I would want a lot more than that.

We won't trade Bargnani + Calderon for just Gasol. We'd have absolutely no backup PG (yes, i know Jose has struggled, but he's still miles ahead of Lucas). If we're losing Jose, we're getting some kind of backup help.

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KHD wrote:

We won't trade Bargnani + Calderon for just Gasol. We'd have absolutely no backup PG (yes, i know Jose has struggled, but he's still miles ahead of Lucas). If we're losing Jose, we're getting some kind of backup help.

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JL3 all day every day!

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Matt52 wrote:

JL3 all day every day!

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Oh God...

;)

I actually don't think Lucas will be as bad as everyone's thinking. He clearly won't be the super-sub he was in preseason, but given a consistent 20 mpg, I don't think he'll be as bad as we've seen in spot minutes so far. I honestly think he can be a legit part of the rotation.

At the very least, it will (finally) put an end to the dreaded 2-PG lineup Casey inexplicably loves.