Mike Conley w/ a quote equally relevant to the Raps as Grizz

i dont even know why this is a topic.. for everyone that is saying calderon is just as good defensively as lowry and he's better out there for the raptors then lowry your crazy.. you must not have been around to watch this bum try an run our team for the past 6 years, get rid of him and that ridiculous contract and send bargs right with him.. calderon he cant play man to man, he needs his team to help him, he is so slow.. and im tired of watching bargs throw up ridiculous 3's and shooting ridiculous percentages for a power forward.. im actually just tired lol

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

...Lowry, on the other hand, needs to recognize Conley's quote, in my opinion. I think his error is not believing in the system and not believing in his teammates. The last 2 games the Raptors are showing the system and the players are something to believe in and Lowry is the one who needs to conform not the other way around.

---

This is the truth. I can't believe all the revisionists claiming Jose is superior to Lowry. What was everybody saying through pre-season and in the first 4-5 games? There wasn't any of this Jose love then.

I have been one of Jose's biggest supporters, but Lowry has almost as good a shot from outside, far superior penetration ability, much better defence, much more speed in transition and great passing ability. He got hurt, has been playing through it, and his frustrations with the team have lead to him making some poor decisions in terms of putting the team on his own shoulders, and making some bad gambles for steals to try and turn the tide in different games.

With any luck, watching how the team plays when they are back in "Team" mode will help settle him down. I imagine Casey was whispering in his ear constantly the last couple of games. If Lowry is the player I hope he is, he has paid attention to the game tape the last couple of weeks.

Lowry has good market value right now. I think Raptors would be wise in trading him and in the process get rid of one of the big contracts. They could probably get back a 1st rounder as well. It just seems to me that the team needs a different point guard for the future.

Quote:

---

Eric Akshinthala wrote:

Lowry has good market value right now. I think Raptors would be wise in trading him and in the process get rid of one of the big contracts. They could probably get back a 1st rounder as well. It just seems to me that the team needs a different point guard for the future.

---

I agree.. Other than JV (who I believe is untouchable) I think Lowry is our most valuable asset. We are in no position to compete at least in the next 2-3 years. By the time we are even close to competing, Lowry will have become a UFA (possibly asking for max to stay with Toronto) and will be turning 28-29 (and would have possibly peaked already).

I'm not sure if we need to package him with a guy like Bargnani, but he should be able to get back a nice piece that we can use to build with going forward. Jennings for example is going to be a free agent (restricted, but still).. he has made it known that he would have no problems playing with Toronto (and there would be some good chemistry with him and DeMar). I am not sure if Jennings > Lowry, but he's 3 years younger, and is a guy you can still compete with 3 years from now.

Quote:

---

planetmars wrote:

I agree.. Other than JV (who I believe is untouchable) I think Lowry is our most valuable asset. We are in no position to compete at least in the next 2-3 years. By the time we are even close to competing, Lowry will have become a UFA (possibly asking for max to stay with Toronto) and will be turning 28-29 (and would have possibly peaked already).

I'm not sure if we need to package him with a guy like Bargnani, but he should be able to get back a nice piece that we can use to build with going forward. Jennings for example is going to be a free agent (restricted, but still).. he has made it known that he would have no problems playing with Toronto (and there would be some good chemistry with him and DeMar). I am not sure if Jennings > Lowry, but he's 3 years younger, and is a guy you can still compete with 3 years from now.

---

My frame of thought: Trade Lowry along with Bargnani and net us some assets in return (picks, young players, etc.)

Lowry is talented, but he's not the perfect fit for the Raptors at the moment. I think it's best for us to get rid of all the long-term contracts and keep developing for another 2-3 years. When sh!t goes bad, Lowry's the first one out of the door, which says a lot about his character. He wants to win and win badly. Sadly, Toronto's not primed for that.

Jose, I really don't mind leaving on the team since he's an expiring contract. But if there is a deal that nets us an asset for Jose, I'd take it too. That goes for Kleiza and Fields.

If there is one player I want back, it's Eric Bledsoe. I'm not sure how that is going to happen though.

Sorry but trading Lowry right now would absolutely kill the franchise...quarter of the way into the season and we trade the guy we traded a lottery pick...We are not going to get same value.

Lowry when he came back saw his team struggle and felt like it was up to him to bring them back. you can call it selfish, but the man is trying to win games, not just pad his stats. He'll start trusting his teammates again

Quote:

---

Checkines wrote:

...He'll start trusting his teammates again

---

Especially if he see's a couple of more performances like the last two.

I think Lowry is going to be fine upon return - I have nothing to base that on by the way, just saying.

Raps are 6-19. Only way I would trade Lowry is if you are getting incredible return (something better than prospects too, proven young talent, 2014 draft picks, and shedding an undesirable contract). Otherwise, why bother? Talent that can be described as better than average is desperately lacking on the Raptors, why trade that away? Only way you do it is if the return is as mentioned or there is serious injury and/or chemistry concerns moving forward.

I prefer Calderon for point guard. I said that last summer when the Nash fiasco occurred and early in this thread before the latest triple double. It's only about 30% into the season and perhaps Lowry will change my mind when he gets healthy, but after 25 games Jose is the better fit. I am talking about more wins not which player has a better reputation.

Quote:

---

stretch wrote:

I prefer Calderon for point guard. I said that last summer when the Nash fiasco occurred and early in this thread before the latest triple double. It's only about 30% into the season and perhaps Lowry will change my mind when he gets healthy, but after 25 games Jose is the better fit. I am talking about more wins not which player has a better reputation.

---

If you are talking wins and look beyond the last 25 games, you'll see Calderon has been the predominant starter for 5 years and no playoff appearances. Lowry


Calderon is a good player but he hasn't led Toronto to the playoffs and he is only getting older.


Lowry has not been to the playoffs either but in the last 2 years he was predominant starter in Houston and they finished above .500 each season in the WEST.

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

If you are talking wins and look beyond the last 25 games, you'll see Calderon has been the predominant starter for 5 years and no playoff appearances. Lowry


Calderon is a good player but he hasn't led Toronto to the playoffs and he is only getting older.


Lowry has not been to the playoffs either but in the last 2 years he was predominant starter in Houston and they finished above .500 each season in the WEST.

---

+1. Everyones turning on Lowry already, it's crazy

Quote:

---

Raptor_11 wrote:

+1. Everyones turning on Lowry already, it's crazy

---

LoL

It is RaptorsRepublic!

Quote:

---

JB5 wrote:

i dont even know why this is a topic.. for everyone that is saying calderon is just as good defensively as lowry and he's better out there for the raptors then lowry your crazy.. you must not have been around to watch this bum try an run our team for the past 6 years, get rid of him and that ridiculous contract and send bargs right with him.. calderon he cant play man to man, he needs his team to help him, he is so slow.. and im tired of watching bargs throw up ridiculous 3's and shooting ridiculous percentages for a power forward.. im actually just tired lol

---

In agreement.

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

If you are talking wins and look beyond the last 25 games, you'll see Calderon has been the predominant starter for 5 years and no playoff appearances. Lowry


Calderon is a good player but he hasn't led Toronto to the playoffs and he is only getting older.


Lowry has not been to the playoffs either but in the last 2 years he was predominant starter in Houston and they finished above .500 each season in the WEST.

---

Exactly. People need to look at total body of work for JC. Don't get too high with two nice wins. Be realistic , look at the big picture.

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

If you are talking wins and look beyond the last 25 games, you'll see Calderon has been the predominant starter for 5 years and no playoff appearances. Lowry

Calderon is a good player but he hasn't led Toronto to the playoffs and he is only getting older.

Lowry has not been to the playoffs either but in the last 2 years he was predominant starter in Houston and they finished above .500 each season in the WEST.

---

I think comparing records of the two point guards is nutso. Unless your name is Westbrook, Nash or Rose, I'm not looking for a point guard to carry us into the playoffs. Just play hard and run our offense please. Derek Fisher's teams have averaged 49 wins, and that includes two lockout-shortened seasons, one of which only had 50 games. Does that mean we should trade for him? If anyone says yes, please go away.

For Jose, Colangelo's been trying to replace him ever since he's been our GM. And time and time again, Jose has stepped up and played amazing basketball. His defense isn't the best, but tell me one other flaw that he has. Other than being overpaid (not his fault), I can't think of any.

For Lowry, I've heard he's a top 10 PG who for brief moments in a young career has played at an all-star level. I still see Mike James. I do see that he's a good rebounder, but if we're trading Bargnani then a rebounding point guard is no longer a pressing need. He plays aggressively on defense, but that doesn't seem to always equate with having a good defensive game. But he's still young and I hope he'll grow into his role a bit better.

I'm on the fence in terms of which needs to go, but right now it just makes more sense to trade Calderon because he is expiring and he's a very serviceable guy. I can think of a dozen teams that could use him, provided they're able to make cap room space to fit him in. Most teams would be extremely fortunate to have him. He's a good trade piece and you are getting a guy that will do exactly what you think he will do for you.

Quote:

---

ebrian wrote:

I think comparing records of the two point guards is nutso. Unless your name is Westbrook, Nash or Rose, I'm not looking for a point guard to carry us into the playoffs. Just play hard and run our offense please. Derek Fisher's teams have averaged 49 wins, and that includes two lockout-shortened seasons, one of which only had 50 games. Does that mean we should trade for him? If anyone says yes, please go away.

For Jose, Colangelo's been trying to replace him ever since he's been our GM. And time and time again, Jose has stepped up and played amazing basketball. His defense isn't the best, but tell me one other flaw that he has. Other than being overpaid (not his fault), I can't think of any.

For Lowry, I've heard he's a top 10 PG who for brief moments in a young career has played at an all-star level. I still see Mike James. I do see that he's a good rebounder, but if we're trading Bargnani then a rebounding point guard is no longer a pressing need. He plays aggressively on defense, but that doesn't seem to always equate with having a good defensive game. But he's still young and I hope he'll grow into his role a bit better.

I'm on the fence in terms of which needs to go, but right now it just makes more sense to trade Calderon because he is expiring and he's a very serviceable guy. I can think of a dozen teams that could use him, provided they're able to make cap room space to fit him in. Most teams would be extremely fortunate to have him. He's a good trade piece and you are getting a guy that will do exactly what you think he will do for you.

---

I'm looking for a point guard to help contribute to making the playoffs. Jose has not done that in 5 years.