Anybody out there still want Bargnani back?

Right now I'm worried that what we get back in a trade could end up being worse than what we have now unless he's packaged with something good. With the nice run they are on I don't want to see them screw with the chemistry.
Just giving him the starting role with his usual 30 minutes plus would be a slap in the face to the team and the fans. I'm leaning towards 10-15 minutes and see if that would help him refocus on what he can do well. If not give him Acy's spot.

Can we trade him for Luigi Datomé? He's a younger Garbo type that plays here for Virtus Roma. Kid is all heart n hustle. Jacks up shot clock beating triples and follows his shot or picks up a body to box out the instant it leaves his fingers, make or miss. Maybe half the talent but it's the half Bargs doesn't use anyway.

Plus he has much better hair.

http://www.pba-online.net/uploads/ph...ome-082312.jpg

He could be our best bench player if he buys in. Two raps lines with two different looks: lowry/demar and calderon/bargs. Would have to pair the second group with our best defenders, but it could be a good idea. Turn the starters from two/three years ago into the bench mob. Sounds like improvement! Plus, the calderon/bargs/amir combo at the 1/4/5 is proven to be Baggys best partner on D, and calderon knows how to play with both of them on the o side.

All that said, I have a party hat and case of beer ready for when he does get traded for either young talent/picks or an established 3.

I think that Raptors' fans should take a tempered approach to Bargnani and his role. Team dynamics are complicated, and they have changed over the past couple of weeks. Everyone, including Lowry, are starting to play a more team-oriented game. I don't think that Bargnani has the personality to buck that approach. So I would not be at all surprised if we saw a more team-oriented and effective player when Bargnani returns. Another issue to consider is that the Raptors have been looking very good against some pretty bad teams. They are still a long way from being able to win their share of games against upper echelon teams. So the idea of just dumping Bargnani without getting anything useful in return seems a bit short-sighted and overestimates the talent of the current roster. Finally, I hate to say it, but we should also realize that they have looked a lot better without JV in the middle. I think he has huge potential, but starting a rookie C will almost always result in a rough year in the W-L columns. I think the best approach is to see how Bargnani fits in with the current style of play, and if he flourishes (either starting, or off the bench), then take a decision. Casey and Colangelo are in a much better position now to either fit Bargnani into the mix or trade him for assets that will help the team in the long term.

The thing with Bargnani is this; you never throw your team/teammates under the bus. Regardless of his horrendous play. It reminds me of when I was in Police Foundations and one of the students had asked the teacher (former OPP officer) why cops don't pull over other cops when they are speeding. The answer is simple, you pull over that cop and write him up a ticket, and let's say 6 months down the road that cop becomes your partner. You really think that guy is going to have your back? You never burn a bridge, and that is exactly what Bargs did. Therefore I can't see him coming back to the lineup. His team doesn't want him back, they want him shipped out so they can move on together as a cohesive unit.

TRADE HIM. Forget the ''ifs'' and the ''maybes''. Yes, maybe he'd do good in a 6th man role. But we just need to trade him to go on. You see it already he just does not give a f*ck about this team anymore. He ain't even cheering or anything.

I think his time is done in Toronto. I don't think he'll necessarily come back and destroy what the team is doing this season, but really what's the benefit of having him around at this point? If we're winning without him, you can't say we need him to be a better team. He's not really a piece for the future, and I hate to think what his presence could do to destroy what this team has built with him out. I still don't expect us to make the playoffs, but we're getting the team we were promised in the offseason with him gone. More than that, the players feel the same way at this point, clearly, regardless of whether they think it has anything to do with him. So you have a young, unselfish, effort and defense oriented team, where everybody is getting a chance to shine and score...and then you have to make room for the always lazy Bargs, and his 15-20 shots. Man, the fact of the matter is, Bargs is a bust. Not because he's a bad or useless player, or because of his not actually that bad contract, but because it's still obvious even this late in his career that his ceiling is much higher than what he accomplishes out there. Right now we have a team playing well, where the parts are adding up to exceed expectations...I really don't want to throw the chronic underachiever back out there with them.
*Note: I realize we HAVE to keep Bargs til we can play him to at least show he's healthy, but I hope that doesn't last more than a week or two.

I would like to see him when he comes back. The Raptors have, for lack of a better description, transformed into a completely diffrent roster. One where Andrea's role can be questioned. I want to see how much heart this Italian actually has. I would like to see his comeback game, perhaps out of curiosity to see if he has a set of nuts after all. (maybe out of entertainment, or maybe just to confirm that he really is as bad for us as we originally thought)

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white men can't jump wrote:

I think his time is done in Toronto. I don't think he'll necessarily come back and destroy what the team is doing this season, but really what's the benefit of having him around at this point? If we're winning without him, you can't say we need him to be a better team. He's not really a piece for the future, and I hate to think what his presence could do to destroy what this team has built with him out. I still don't expect us to make the playoffs, but we're getting the team we were promised in the offseason with him gone. More than that, the players feel the same way at this point, clearly, regardless of whether they think it has anything to do with him. So you have a young, unselfish, effort and defense oriented team, where everybody is getting a chance to shine and score...and then you have to make room for the always lazy Bargs, and his 15-20 shots. Man, the fact of the matter is, Bargs is a bust. Not because he's a bad or useless player, or because of his not actually that bad contract, but because it's still obvious even this late in his career that his ceiling is much higher than what he accomplishes out there. Right now we have a team playing well, where the parts are adding up to exceed expectations...I really don't want to throw the chronic underachiever back out there with them.
*Note: I realize we HAVE to keep Bargs til we can play him to at least show he's healthy, but I hope that doesn't last more than a week or two.

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I wouldn't necessarily call him a bust. Bust is Kwame Brown. Of course we have seen what he can do when he is healthy. When he has confidence which he seems to be lacking these days, he is a very good player. Sometimes I feel like he would've succeeded elsewhere in a position that suits him and strengths. After the injuries it seems like he's lost his confidence and consequently the confidence that his team-mates instilled in him. What he needs to do, after he is fully healthy and is in great condition is to adapt to the current system either in starting or coming off the bench. Trading him for trading him sake is complete and total bullshit. I'm sure that when he comes back he is going to conform to the teams structure. He does not have a huge ego that needs to satisfied. He can play within the team system and he has done that before. Confidence not laziness or anything like that is his major issue. When he has that confidence he can completely shred defenses. Let him play the 6th man role, don't trade him because of what's going with the team. If he can and when he plays within this team system, you guys will be eating your words. I hope and pray that he does well when he comes back. I'm not hoping that he busts so there is an incentive to trade him like some other posts I've seen on this blog.

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T.Dot wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily call him a bust. Bust is Kwame Brown. Of course we have seen what he can do when he is healthy. When he has confidence which he seems to be lacking these days, he is a very good player. Sometimes I feel like he would've succeeded elsewhere in a position that suits him and strengths. After the injuries it seems like he's lost his confidence and consequently the confidence that his team-mates instilled in him. What he needs to do, after he is fully healthy and is in great condition is to adapt to the current system either in starting or coming off the bench. Trading him for trading him sake is complete and total bullshit. I'm sure that when he comes back he is going to conform to the teams structure. He does not have a huge ego that needs to satisfied. He can play within the team system and he has done that before. Confidence not laziness or anything like that is his major issue. When he has that confidence he can completely shred defenses. Let him play the 6th man role, don't trade him because of what's going with the team. If he can and when he plays within this team system, you guys will be eating your words. I hope and pray that he does well when he comes back. I'm not hoping that he busts so there is an incentive to trade him like some other posts I've seen on this blog.

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Kwame plays better D then Bargs LOL

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DoNDaDDa wrote:

i think its a forgone conclusion that bargs is no longer part of this team..& lots of articles have been popping up saying the same thing..

http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap...Trade_Bargnani


http://www.sportsnet.ca/basketball/2...k_to_be_moved/

& this from Hoopshype wire today.

Steve Kyler: Bargnani is no longer in the picture in Toronto, they'll play him to prove he's healthy, but a trade is almost inevitable at this point Twitter @stevekylerNBA

id say our christmas wishes are comming true !

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Except that ESPN's Stein suggests that KL is paired in this trade, that is a "lock" to happen.

I fear that we may be looking at KL and Bargs for Pau. This is probably one of the only instances where I'd rather keep Bargnani, coming off the bench, that is.

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xRevise wrote:

The thing with Bargnani is this; you never throw your team/teammates under the bus. Regardless of his horrendous play. It reminds me of when I was in Police Foundations and one of the students had asked the teacher (former OPP officer) why cops don't pull over other cops when they are speeding. The answer is simple, you pull over that cop and write him up a ticket, and let's say 6 months down the road that cop becomes your partner. You really think that guy is going to have your back? You never burn a bridge, and that is exactly what Bargs did. Therefore I can't see him coming back to the lineup. His team doesn't want him back, they want him shipped out so they can move on together as a cohesive unit.

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Personally, I'd rather have a partner who knew his job, and did it well. I'd know that if he's willing to pull me over (as a fellow cop), that means he's committed to putting the best possible product out in the workplace. THAT's the kind of people I like working with, because that's the kind of people who win.

As a project manager, someone once told me "The Job is the boss, it trumps all other interests" For a cop, that means upholding the law takes precedent.

For a basketball team, that means putting out a winning roster.

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Beagle wrote:

Well, I think it's pretty dumb to trade him without first seeing how he performs in a sixth-man role. He sometimes gets red hot. Sometimes he plays decent defense. As a sixth man, there is no risk putting him out there. If he shoots cold for five minutes or more, just sit him down again and try again the next game. His trade value will be much higher as the playoffs approach anyway. There will likely be a team or two looking to shore up their scoring in hopes of a playoff run. Trading him now for little in return is pretty stupid and will look very stupid if he becomes a productive sixth man on another team.

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I think at this stage in his career every GM in the league already knows what he can and can't do. Sure players improve, but he hasnt shown much improvement in recent years, actually, he did improve last year and significantly regressed this year. But his skill set or what he can bring to a team has been pretty much established seasons ago. Everyone knows he can score, he can pull the bigs out of the paint, he can shoot the 3, a minimal rebounder and average defender.

My only issue having him on the sixth man role is, having him as a starter before with major minutes while having lackluster effort and performance, what would entice him to put forth maximum effort with less minutes?

I just dont see it anymore. Even if he is not the focal point of offense, if he is still a Raptor, his mentality will still be as the Raptors main guy, like he's been the past couple of seasons. And the Raptors dont play like that anymore. Ball movement has been key in their wins and having Bargnani on the floor will definitely ruin that.

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T.Dot wrote:

I wouldn't necessarily call him a bust. Bust is Kwame Brown. Of course we have seen what he can do when he is healthy. When he has confidence which he seems to be lacking these days, he is a very good player. Sometimes I feel like he would've succeeded elsewhere in a position that suits him and strengths. After the injuries it seems like he's lost his confidence and consequently the confidence that his team-mates instilled in him. What he needs to do, after he is fully healthy and is in great condition is to adapt to the current system either in starting or coming off the bench. Trading him for trading him sake is complete and total bullshit. I'm sure that when he comes back he is going to conform to the teams structure. He does not have a huge ego that needs to satisfied. He can play within the team system and he has done that before. Confidence not laziness or anything like that is his major issue. When he has that confidence he can completely shred defenses. Let him play the 6th man role, don't trade him because of what's going with the team. If he can and when he plays within this team system, you guys will be eating your words. I hope and pray that he does well when he comes back. I'm not hoping that he busts so there is an incentive to trade him like some other posts I've seen on this blog.

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I don't know man, first off, don't get me wrong, he's no Kwame Brown, but he's a bust in the sense that any attempt to make him an integral part of a winning team in Toronto has failed. From trying to pair him with Bosh, to trying to build around him. Kwame Brown doesn't have game, and he was just overvalued. Bargs does have the TALENT to probably be the best PF in the game, and he's not even in the convo for top 5, maybe not even top 10. If you have to constantly make adjustments to try and get one player going...after 6 seasons of trying to do that, at some point you have to assess his time here and call it an utter failure. How many chances do you give him? How many times have you said "if he comes back healthy and confident" or "if he can buy in and give consistent effort"? Make no mistake, regardless of what we get for him, which will be only slightly better if we wait til he's healthy, it is all about addition through subtraction. Waiting may not even get us a better deal, but rather just prove to other teams that he is healthy to pull the trigger on deals that are probably already in the works.

If bargs comes back and falls right into starters minutes, can we assume that this is BC's doing?

I just wanna see him come off the bench for 15 -20 mins a night until he gets traded.

For me it's not a matter of if I want to see him return... it's how they can ship him out without negatively affecting the roster. I'm always very cautious to throw around the phrase 'addition by subtraction'; sports fans use it all the time for players that they don't like, and it's rarely true. But this is one instance where it's probably true. If we could trade him tomorrow for El Zilcho, I'd do it. If we could trade him tomorrow for a remotely useful player on a similar contract, or even a player who'd never actually suit up for the team, I'd do it. If we could trade him for a package that includes prospects/picks, I'd be ecstatic. But if it requires packaging him with a part of our core (DD, ED, JV, TR, KL, possibly LF) and not taking back an equally good long-term asset, I'd rather hang on to him until his value improves or we amnesty him in the summer. Calderon, Anderson, Gray, AJ, Kleiza, Lucas, Peitrus... those guys I'd move to facilitate a deal, but other than Calderon and maybe Anderson and Johnson, they're unlikely to have much value.

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white men can't jump wrote:

I don't know man, first off, don't get me wrong, he's no Kwame Brown, but he's a bust in the sense that any attempt to make him an integral part of a winning team in Toronto has failed. From trying to pair him with Bosh, to trying to build around him. Kwame Brown doesn't have game, and he was just overvalued. Bargs does have the TALENT to probably be the best PF in the game, and he's not even in the convo for top 5, maybe not even top 10. If you have to constantly make adjustments to try and get one player going...after 6 seasons of trying to do that, at some point you have to assess his time here and call it an utter failure. How many chances do you give him? How many times have you said "if he comes back healthy and confident" or "if he can buy in and give consistent effort"? Make no mistake, regardless of what we get for him, which will be only slightly better if we wait til he's healthy, it is all about addition through subtraction. Waiting may not even get us a better deal, but rather just prove to other teams that he is healthy to pull the trigger on deals that are probably already in the works.

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I can agree that he didn't bring any sustained winnings to Toronto or live up to his full potential but I don't think he is a bust. bust belong to people like the candy man and Adam Morrison. kwame sucks but Still played in the league for ten years, his stature and legacy is on Jordan.

but if we are redefining what a bust in the league means into didn't bring sustained winning or championships to the team that drafted there are a lot of busts out there.

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Miekenstien wrote:

I can agree that he didn't bring any sustained winnings to Toronto or live up to his full potential but I don't think he is a bust. bust belong to people like the candy man and Adam Morrison. kwame sucks but Still played in the league for ten years, his stature and legacy is on Jordan.

but if we are redefining what a bust in the league means into didn't bring sustained winning or championships to the team that drafted there are a lot of busts out there.

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+1

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DoNDaDDa wrote:

Kwame plays better D then Bargs LOL

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Okay. Was that suppose to be funny?