Gay to debut for Raptors on Sunday [Post #727]

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white men can't jump wrote:

have you ever even watched Rudy Gay play. Raps fans hate on Bargs and Demar for underachieving? If Gay had been playing here and been under the same scrutiny, he would've been lynched by now.

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Gay hasn't lived up to his max contract. I get that. If he was making a few million less, there wouldn't be many complaints. But that's really the biggest complaint regarding Gay (his contract). The Raptors are littered with horrible contracts (Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza, Fields). Finding a way to unload these guys for a player with actual skill, makes sense to me.

Gay has post-up game, mid-range game, outside game, can create his own shot, wants the ball in crunch time, is a good defender, a solid rebounder, and can find the open man when double-teamed. When was the last time we had such a complete player? I don't understand how anyone could look at his low shooting percentages and conclude Gay isn't multi-skilled.

The Toronto Friendship has a better sound than the Toronto Huskies in my opinion.

Not only that but they could potentially get My Little Pony as a major corporate sponsor if they agreed to have one or two of those cute ponies on the logo.

Which free agent could then resist playing for such a team?

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Hugmenot wrote:

The Toronto Friendship has a better sound than the Toronto Huskies in my opinion.

Not only that but they could potentially get My Little Pony as a major corporate sponsor if they agreed to have one or two of those cute ponies on the logo.

Which free agent could then resist playing for such a team?

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Man, I really gotta work on that Toronto Huskies Uniform for a franchise rename proposal.

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Nilanka wrote:

Gay hasn't lived up to his max contract. I get that. If he was making a few million less, there wouldn't be many complaints. But that's really the biggest complaint regarding Gay (his contract). The Raptors are littered with horrible contracts (Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza, Fields). Finding a way to unload these guys for a player with actual skill, makes sense to me.

Gay has post-up game, mid-range game, outside game, can create his own shot, wants the ball in crunch time, is a good defender, a solid rebounder, and can find the open man when double-teamed. When was the last time we had such a complete player? I don't understand how anyone could look at his low shooting percentages and conclude Gay isn't multi-skilled.

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But that isn't happening here.

Some reasons you may want a Rudy Gay on your team I hope this deal goes through hes got a ton of confidence night in night out. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JjEHXJIXFto

What I love about his game is he always always always goes up strong and if his shot isnt working Memphis just gives him the rock to make something going to the basket Toronto needs this guy.

Crunch time Gay

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8yTXOi9LHk

With Toronto/Memphis trying to find a landing spot for Calderon and an ESPN rumor today suggesting that Dallas is shopping Kaman & Beaubois, I wonder if either of these trades might work:

Option #1 - http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=b8rj6oc

Option #2 - http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=a65zbz7


Both trades offer Memphis immedite savings ($3-5M) this season and huge savings over the following two seasons. Anderson provides them with a cheap wing player who plays solid defense and provides 3pt scoring (which they're missing since trading Ellington to Cleveland).

We can speculate about Gay's arrival or not but in my opinion, the latest extension given to Demar will come back to haunt us. Demar would've been such a tradeable asset in his last year of his rookie scale contract. People are proclaiming that Gay has not lived up to his contract when DD himself will just be as bad. Just the thought of Gay and Demar (the prince of inefficiency) in the same starting line-up makes me shudder. The more I think about it, the more I'm praying things NOT materialize. If there are no takers for Jose, AB, then that's it. Just go with this group and hopefully they improve in a couple of years.

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Nilanka wrote:

Gay hasn't lived up to his max contract. I get that. If he was making a few million less, there wouldn't be many complaints. But that's really the biggest complaint regarding Gay (his contract). The Raptors are littered with horrible contracts (Bargnani, DeRozan, Kleiza, Fields). Finding a way to unload these guys for a player with actual skill, makes sense to me.

Gay has post-up game, mid-range game, outside game, can create his own shot, wants the ball in crunch time, is a good defender, a solid rebounder, and can find the open man when double-teamed. When was the last time we had such a complete player? I don't understand how anyone could look at his low shooting percentages and conclude Gay isn't multi-skilled.

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His post-up game is usually just him taking a jumper over somebody.
His outside game is usually his post-up game, because he loves spending time in the 18-20 foot zone.
He can't create his own shot that well. He never truly refined his game that much and still largely relies on his length to get his game off.
Everyone wants the ball in crunch time....
He's an ok defender. He has teh tools but doesn't always use them. When I compare him to players with similar gifts physically (LeBron, Josh Smith, Paul George), he's a far worse defender than any of them.
A solid rebounder? See his D. 35th in rpg for forwards at 5.9. other SFs ahead of him....MKG, Batum, Deng, Evan Turner, Kirilenko, Al-Farouq Aminu, Durant, LBJ, Paul George, some tweeners like J-Smoove, Thad Young, Ilyasova....averaging about the same as Paul Pierce, Chandler Parsons, Metta WP.....Oh yeah, a real solid rebounder.....Keeping in mind that physically he's basically a skinnier LeBron, or thicker George.
Find the open man? He's ok at it, but hardly special. 2.6 apg is ok, but not great or anything. Demar averages 2.2, and even AA averages 2.0 per game....

having Gay Demar and Ross with Fields is great Wing Depth if you ask me. Injuries happen.

Sadly, Gay would be the best player on the team from day one. That alone is reason enough to trade for him.

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Rapstor4Life wrote:

having Gay Demar and Ross with Fields is great Wing Depth if you ask me. Injuries happen.

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Gay and Ross, yes. Demar, hell no. Mr. Fade Away. I wish he'd "fade away".

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Balls of Steel wrote:

Gay and Ross, yes. Demar, hell no. Mr. Fade Away. I wish he'd "fade away".

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Gay takes way more fade away jumpers than Demar man...or if not fade aways...long unwanted jumpers

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white men can't jump wrote:

Gay takes way more fade away jumpers than Demar man...or if not fade aways...long unwanted jumpers

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Balls of Steel meant DeRozan fades away as in he doesnt contribute late in the game, but not his fault he doesnt get touches on offense the one time they did he won us the game against Orlando.

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Rapstor4Life wrote:

Balls of Steel meant DeRozan fades away as in he doesnt contribute late in the game, but not his fault he doesnt get touches on offense the one time they did he won us the game against Orlando.

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I think he meant both dude....the fading away and "fading away" are related ;) Could be wrong

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Balls of Steel wrote:

Gay and Ross, yes. Demar, hell no. Mr. Fade Away. I wish he'd "fade away".

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If DeRozan isn't the "young player" going to Memphis for Gay, then I hope the Raps use him to bring in another big name player. Millsap would seem to be a mutually beneficial option. With Davis going to Memphis and Bargnani on the way out (somehow), the Raps need a starting PF moving forward. Utah is overloaded with bigs and needs help on the wings and in the backcourt, so it would seem to be (potentially) a natural fit. Of course, I'd only do it if Millsap seems inclined to re-sign with a revamped Raptors team.

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white men can't jump wrote:

I think he meant both dude....the fading away and "fading away" are related ;) Could be wrong

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Sorry for the confusion, I did mean both. He fades away late in games, takes too many fade aways (shying from contact) and needs to fade away (to take himself and his bloated contract away). Not a fan. BC could've sold him high on his current numbers on a rookie contract. The prob with BC is he overpays and when it's time to correct his mistakes, it costs the team. DD's extension is the latest proof of that. If Demar exceeded expectations, he can be traded and his new team determines his extension. Gay and DD on the same team with AB (if Davis is moved) is a disaster on the defensive end.

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Balls of Steel wrote:

Sorry for the confusion, I did mean both. He fades away late in games, takes too many fade aways (shying from contact) and needs to fade away (to take himself and his bloated contract away). Not a fan. BC could've sold him high on his current numbers on a rookie contract. The prob with BC is he overpays and when it's time to correct his mistakes, it costs the team. DD's extension is the latest proof of that. If Demar exceeded expectations, he can be traded and his new team determines his extension. Gay and DD on the same team with AB (if Davis is moved) is a disaster on the defensive end.

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I think people are a bit harsh on Demar because we've seen his flaws all too many times. I don't know that he's ever going to make an all-star game. But he's not getting paid like one. He's getting paid like a 3rd or 4th option. Maybe a 6th man. Given the going rate of starting wings in free agency, he could have easily been bid up to where he is. I totally agree it was a stupid move by BC, but I think in the future is contract will be tradeable. It's stupid for the reason you say, he could've been a huge trade chip this year, and it's a problem you see now because teams are clearly only asking for Ross.

The problem isn't him, it's that we don't have someone better than him. Gay isn't a big enough leap forward for what he's making. HE also doesn't bring some of the other crucial intangibles that would be helpful, like championship experience or being a very good leader (not saying he's bad, but he's not really the leader in Memphis). The thing about Demar being a 3rd option, is that the 2 better options actually have to be significantly better. Obviously with Andrea and Gay, we'd still be a mediocre team at best. And you're right, our D would probably only get worse. And I don't have the slightest clue what Bargs would return in a trade, so I don't want to speculate who else might be there instead.

At first my reaction (yesterday) was totally against this deal. I was in a rage. Now, that I had some time to actually think about, this deal starts to make a lot of sense. So hear me out:

First of all forget fantasies like trading Jose + Bargs for Gay and similar stuff. Ain't going to happen. But we MUST trade Calderon, otherwise next season we'll still be the same team we are right now, but minus Calderon! Who wants that? And forget the free agency, nothing interesting in the FA this coming summer, at least not for us (as if we could attract free agents anyway). And our pick goes to OKC...

We need a SF! The only SF with above average skill to be a FA this summer is Pierce, who'll likely be traded before the deadline next month, maybe over the next couple of days actually... But Pierce is of no interest for us - too old. The only other SF with above average talent level available for a trade is Gay. There is no other team, that will be willing to trade a borderline all-star SF for a package of Calderon and a Davis.

UNDERSTAND the following: nobody is really going after Calderon, only his expiring deal (dumping salary)!! The league is crowded with seriously talented PG's and those teams that are interested in Calderon are not the teams that can offer us something in return that would interest us! No realistic trades anyway!

So since we don't want to let Calderon's deal expire over the summer, we must use him in any way possible right NOW. The Gay deal is the ONLY deal available. Basically we are trading Ed Davis for Rudy Gay. In my eyes that is a good deal.

To sum up:

- Either we deal Calderon now or he walks in the summer and we get NOTHING in return!
- No team will give you back a better PG in return for Calderon + Davis (or Jose + Bargnani and not even Jose + DeRozan). So our PG will be Lowry for the foreseeable future.
- our biggest need is a good SF, but only Gay and Pierce are available. Forget about a good SF through free agency (Canada...)! This summer only Pierce will be available anyway.
- Ed Davis is not going to be an all-star, more like a good bench big and we're basically trading him straight up for Gay (borderline all-star SF). The alternative is we keep Davis and lose Jose over the summer.
- We are not bad enough to get a high pick over the next couple of years, so forget the Wiggins and similar dreams.

What we can do:

Get Gay for Calderon and Davis. Next, wait and see if Pau Gasol demands to be traded, attempt to offer Bargs + Kleiza (or Fields). If Gasol is not available, 2 plans of action can be followed: either before the trade deadline we can trade DeRozan for Millsap, maybe even Bargnani for Millsap if Jazz brass loses its mind for a day. Otherwise we wait till summer, amnesty Bargnani and attempt to sign Millsap through FA. If Jazz agreed to TRADE Millsap, the rest of the job would be easy for a GM. Lots of different things can be done after that...

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white men can't jump wrote:

I think people are a bit harsh on Demar because we've seen his flaws all too many times. I don't know that he's ever going to make an all-star game. But he's not getting paid like one. He's getting paid like a 3rd or 4th option. Maybe a 6th man. Given the going rate of starting wings in free agency, he could have easily been bid up to where he is. I totally agree it was a stupid move by BC, but I think in the future is contract will be tradeable. It's stupid for the reason you say, he could've been a huge trade chip this year, and it's a problem you see now because teams are clearly only asking for Ross.

The problem isn't him, it's that we don't have someone better than him. Gay isn't a big enough leap forward for what he's making. HE also doesn't bring some of the other crucial intangibles that would be helpful, like championship experience or being a very good leader (not saying he's bad, but he's not really the leader in Memphis). The thing about Demar being a 3rd option, is that the 2 better options actually have to be significantly better. Obviously with Andrea and Gay, we'd still be a mediocre team at best. And you're right, our D would probably only get worse. And I don't have the slightest clue what Bargs would return in a trade, so I don't want to speculate who else might be there instead.

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I think that Demar on last year of his rookie contract + current numbers is better than Demar with new contract extension + current numbers, whether teams are asking for him or not.