GT: Jan 16th, Chicago @ Toronto, 7pm EST, SNO

Quote:

---

TRex wrote:

This.

But my problem with him is not just his offensive game. DeRozan's overall game is just ridiculously bad. For a guy his size he should be getting more than 4 rebounds/game. Tonight he got 4 in 40mins. Last night he had 2 in 34 mins.

Defensively, he's horrible. The guy couldn't even guard Marco fucking Belinelli. The foul that he committed on Marco tonight was just a bonehead play. There's no reason to be up in a guy's grill 4 feet behind the 3 point line, with no foul to give.

---

Weren't you just praising Demar like a week ago, or so? You were all over his improving play, now you have a tone that we need to trade him...

Look, I'm just as upset as you are in terms of his play recently, but it's not like he's a garbage, D-League player. He's a capable starter on any of the 30 teams in the league. Also, do know that end of December to end of January is where he struggles. The wear and tear basically. Guy playing +35 minutes a night CONSISTENTLY. Demar is very well conditioned, but it's hard not feeling the grind on your body.

strip deng

joakim pass to nobody

deng push off

cant wait until we get a new GM with the balls to go after the league after these kind of calls

I had a good nights sleep, woke up and I am still angry about this game.


Who the hell thought Amir was passing the ball on that play? Point out the retard? Not a single person at the ACC thought that Amir was trying to pass it, yet that is how the officials called it. WHAT A SCAM, with 3 seconds to go.


I hope the Customs officials give a cavity search for everyone on that crew next time they come into Pearson. I am still seriously angry at the league and those crooked officials. Low life's.



Why should I keep investing my time, when there are two different ways of calling the game, depending on who is playing? Why?

Bush league

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

but the bulls won

refs are an excuse. raps had opportunities to win without worrying about men in stripes. they didn't do enough to win.

---

The bulls were given an extra possession on the Noah out of bounds play where anyone with eyes could see that Noah just threw it out of bounds. The Deng bucket was clearly an offensive foul. Amir had a chance to tie it taken away because they claim he was not in the act of shooting. He was clearly still in motion and in the act of shooting. Had that been Lebron, KD, Kobe or any other star you can bet your life he was going to the line. These plays all happened at the end of a game. Had the refs done their job the outcome could have been different but they blew calls and gave the bulls opportunity to win. You can call it an excuse but when shady officiating happens throughout the league on a nightly basis I call it a trend.

http://youtu.be/lPZNwdvr5lU

shows the push off clearly. The announcer even comments on it and applauds it.

One thing I wanted to mention, that I noticed about Lowry in last nights game. He hardly used the screens that were set for him, it was as if, "I know you see the screen, so I will not use it", but, even when you see the screen, it still slows down the defender.

He had a great game last night, but I thought it could have been better if he ran a few guys into the screens, because busting screens is tough work and it wears you out.

If it was one or two bad calls in the middle of the game, no one would make a big deal out of it.

The refs went into OT wanting the bulls to Win, and they found a way to do it. The calls are very questionable and happened on key possessions in OT. Only the Zebras last night thought that Amir had no intention of shooting the ball, every logical thinking person knew that is EXACTLY what he was in the process of doing, he was clearly fouled in the act. I don't like two tier reffing, that was PURE BS.

(How does an unbiased ref blow that call? I still am shaking my head. )


EDIT: Why should our fans pay money for this? Whats the point? Where is the league with suspensions? Seriously, I don't want to be throwing mouth guards, I don't want my coaches to get Technicals for pointing out the obvious, I want the league to do something about this. ASAP!

Quote:

---

Pill wrote:

The bulls were given an extra possession on the Noah out of bounds play where anyone with eyes could see that Noah just threw it out of bounds. The Deng bucket was clearly an offensive foul. Amir had a chance to tie it taken away because they claim he was not in the act of shooting. He was clearly still in motion and in the act of shooting. Had that been Lebron, KD, Kobe or any other star you can bet your life he was going to the line. These plays all happened at the end of a game. Had the refs done their job the outcome could have been different but they blew calls and gave the bulls opportunity to win. You can call it an excuse but when shady officiating happens throughout the league on a nightly basis I call it a trend.

http://youtu.be/lPZNwdvr5lU

shows the push off clearly. The announcer even comments on it and applauds it.

---

Right.

And if the Raptors took care of the in regulation better, avoided stupid turnovers like Amir's foot violation, hit their free throws, etc. etc. they would have won.

There are around 100 possessions in a game for each team. I agree the refs messed up but I"m sure there are some pissed off Bulls fans who think they botched their fair share of calls too.

At the end of the day, and this is my point, take care of your own sh!t and don't let someone else dictate the outcome for you.

You can say that about every game Matt. There is not a single close game that does not have a mistake or a missed free throw.


Amir was clearly in the act of shooting how the fuck do you miss that? He is not a point guard, he is not going to be passing it with 3 seconds left. I know what my eyes saw.


I am sick of ignoring the crappy officiating. I really am. This team played its heart out last night, they are not as talented as the Bulls group, but that does not mean they should be officiated any different.

You and I both know if that happened to LBJ or Wade, instead of Amir it would be a call.

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

Right.

And if the Raptors took care of the in regulation better, avoided stupid turnovers like Amir's foot violation, hit their free throws, etc. etc. they would have won.

There are around 100 possessions in a game for each team. I agree the refs messed up but I"m sure there are some pissed off Bulls fans who think they botched their fair share of calls too.

At the end of the day, and this is my point, take care of your own sh!t and don't let someone else dictate the outcome for you.

---

That's bullshit, Matt. And old and tired, bullshit cliche. I admire your desire to not let the team shirk its responsibility, but botched calls make a difference.

Yes, every team has an opportunity to "win it for themselves" every night. But many NBA games are close coming down the stretch, and therefore officials' calls are that much more critical. When they screw up easy calls, it affects the game. Of course, if the Raptors had been up 15 down the stretch, instead of in a barnburner where every possession counts, they probably could have weathered a few egregiously bad calls. As it was, the game was close and the Raptors got screwed out of an opportunity to win.

I'm not suggesting any kind of anti-Toronto conspiracy, but those were really, really bad calls and they really, really affected the outcome of this game.

Quote:

---

BasketballCrush wrote:

You can say that about every game Matt. There is not a single close game that does not have a mistake or a missed free throw.


Amir was clearly in the act of shooting how the fuck do you miss that? He is not a point guard, he is not going to be passing it with 3 seconds left. I know what my eyes saw.


I am sick of ignoring the crappy officiating. I really am.

---

It comes down to if you think it is fixed. Personally, maybe I am naive, I don't think it is fixed. There is too much at stake should a government inquiry ever come about.

I think humans make mistakes.... refs are stupid humans too.

But I also think blame needs to be assigned to the Raptor players and coaching staff. 2 missed FT's in last 1:15 of regulation, dumb time out when Boozer had his shoes off, and very poor team offense in OT.

There are too many instances where the Raptors could have taken the game on their own for me to solely lay blame on officiating.

Basically, the lunch pail group is expected to play out their minds. Not just keep up with the more talented guys, but out radiate them like the sun, so that a call never influences the game.


Meanwhile, the talented rich group has no such expectations. The calls are called their way. They don't need to use any of that talent to make stops.


Amir clearly gets fouled going to the rim, but their fouls are different, how could we possibly think Amir was trying to score with 3.1 seconds on the clock from the inbound pass. Just mind boggling to me.

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

It comes down to if you think it is fixed. Personally, maybe I am naive, I don't think it is fixed. There is too much at stake should a government inquiry ever come about.

I think humans make mistakes.... refs are stupid humans too.

But I also think blame needs to be assigned to the Raptor players and coaching staff. 2 missed FT's in last 1:15 of regulation, dumb time out when Boozer had his shoes off, and very poor team offense in OT.

There are too many instances where the Raptors could have taken the game on their own for me to solely lay blame on officiating.

---

There has already been an example of fixing. Crimnal, FBI investigated, at that point the league could not cover it up. I remember the doubting Thomas's before the Donaghy scandal. Could never happen in our NBA.


Match fixing, is as old as time... and in a world where it can make you money, it is even more prevalent. Even such stern guys like banks did it in the Libor Rate Fixing Scandal. The world is a rough place, if you don't hold people accountable, they will take advantage of you.


However, bias is another factor. Some stars get way more leeway than others. This is undeniable, and unacceptable. Did you realize that LBJ went for 6 quarters this season without drawing a foul. He plays a lot of minutes, a tenacious defender, how is that even possible? Is he not playing hard enough, or is he just that good? (I don't think anyone is that good)

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

Right.

And if the Raptors took care of the in regulation better, avoided stupid turnovers like Amir's foot violation, hit their free throws, etc. etc. they would have won.

There are around 100 possessions in a game for each team. I agree the refs messed up but I"m sure there are some pissed off Bulls fans who think they botched their fair share of calls too.

At the end of the day, and this is my point, take care of your own sh!t and don't let someone else dictate the outcome for you.

---

Easier said than done in a 1 possession game where you get burned on 3 possessions in the last minute of the game. They played hard to get to a 1 possession game, both teams missed opportunities, that is what basketball is. I dont recall any team shooting 100%. The difference is that the Raptors had the rug pulled from under them in the last minute by poor officiating. Had they won or lost if the calls were correct I wouldn't care. Adding a 3rd party to decide a close game is not what I watch basketball for.

Amir should have been put on the line, if they don't go in they don't go in. (he was clearly fouled in the act)


Imagine that ball went in, AS IT STANDS NOW, that basket would have been waived off. Just horrible officiating.

I understand people are mad but, complaining isn't going to change the outcome of the game. Everybody should just let it go.

Quote:

---

Matt52 wrote:

It comes down to if you think it is fixed. Personally, maybe I am naive, I don't think it is fixed. There is too much at stake should a government inquiry ever come about.

I think humans make mistakes.... refs are stupid humans too.

But I also think blame needs to be assigned to the Raptor players and coaching staff. 2 missed FT's in last 1:15 of regulation, dumb time out when Boozer had his shoes off, and very poor team offense in OT.

There are too many instances where the Raptors could have taken the game on their own for me to solely lay blame on officiating.

---

This is a stars league. The officiating in this league is based on benefit of the doubt. The game is far too fast for a human official to get everything right so they give certain players the benefit of the doubt based on their reputation. This was explained on a show on NBATV named "You make the call." with Ronnie Nunn. Former NBA official Ronnie Nunn explained that certain players are given the benefit of the doubt on calls that happen too fast to see. He did advocate however that some officials take this too far and should put their whistles away if they dont see a call rather than just defaulting to benefit of doubt.

What does this do for the average fan. It makes it look like the ref is biased because by definition they are. How many times have you heard that as a rookie you aren't going to get a call because you have to earn the referee's respect. Why is this? Why cant they just call the play, not the player? Well because the game is too fast to call legit and they fall back on benefit of the doubt. The players got too strong, too fast for officiating to keep up.

Quote:

---

Chr1s1anL wrote:

I understand people are mad but, complaining isn't going to change the outcome of the game. Everybody should just let it go.

---

Nothing wrong with some post game venting. Never...Not once have I ever posted anything on a message board and expected that to change anything.

It is a discussion. Are you going to pop into every trade thread or who should start/play more minutes thread and say "I understand people want this guy to start/be traded/play more minutes but, complaining/discussing it isn't going to change the outcome. Everyone should just let it go. I hope not or this board is going to be pretty barren after a while.

We know the game is not going to get changed, but I have had it with ignoring it. At this point I want to see some dots on the other side of the line, too many of these blown calls against us in KEY moments of games. Like Andrea's clear foul that cost us a game and another trip to the line.


How the hell can the officials walk back to the change room and say job well done? How can they give the benefit of the doubt to one player but not to the next, when all the connected dots show that a benefit of doubt should be given?


I don't like two tiered officiating, and this league has a TWO TIER'ed system.


EDIT: Last time they gave the benefit of doubt to the Bobcats, so there goes there theory that it is about prestige, there is a lot of bias too.

Thanks for the heads up on the realities of the league guys.

In every part of my life I prefer to focus on what I can control versus what I cannot.