It's not Fair to LOWRY!

People are going to be going for Lowry's head for playing "Hero Ball" after this game. Well im going to come to his defense. How many more times are the starters going to put him in that situation? This is like the third straight time that the starters have either blown a lead or just gotten blown out in the third. They than put Lowry in the position where he has to save the day. Calderon comes out and lays a goose egg than Lowry comes in and get us back in the game. He than has to play the rest of the game without a break. It's not fair to Lowry. Can we just knock the BS off and just START HIM! We gave up a lottery pick for a starter! Not a reserve. If he needs to learn to play with the starters than just let him learn. The season is already lost. What else do we have to lose?

There im done venting!

I totally, totally agree with you. I think we need to trade Jose, more than Bargnani and anybody else.

Our point guards dont compliment each other because the style of play is vastly different you cant go from limited personel playing up tempo with Lowry to slow down hold the ball for jumpers with Calderon.

Start Lowry I've been saying it for a while if we want to stand a chance against the better teams in the league Lowry has to play the majority of the minutes. Stop insulting the guy and let him start.

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Chr1s1anL wrote:

People are going to be going for Lowry's head for playing "Hero Ball" after this game. Well im going to come to his defense. How many more times are the starters going to put him in that situation? This is like the third straight time that the starters have either blown a lead or just gotten blown out in the third. They than put Lowry in the position where he has to save the day. Calderon comes out and lays a goose egg than Lowry comes in and get us back in the game. He than has to play the rest of the game without a break. It's not fair to Lowry. Can we just knock the BS off and just START HIM! We gave up a lottery pick for a starter! Not a reserve. If he needs to learn to play with the starters than just let him learn. The season is already lost. What else do we have to lose?

There im done venting!

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In the second half, the Raps went up by 19 with Jose on the court... they started playing poorly and Jose got pulled for Lowry with 7:30 left in the 3rd and they were STILL UP BY 9. So, the momentum was shifting but Lowry was not called on to do any hero ball.
I feel bad for Jose, not Lowry. Imagine playing the way your are, all-star level, and getting subbed out with 7:30 left in the 3rd and not being brought back until 10 seconds left. I don't think Lowry is the issue; however, if not anything else he is bad luck. When he plays a major part of the 4th, our record has to be atrocious (not saying it isn't overall as well).

I would like to see Lowry, and Anderson start.

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The Coach wrote:

In the second half, the Raps went up by 19 with Jose on the court... they started playing poorly and Jose got pulled for Lowry with 7:30 left in the 3rd and they were STILL UP BY 9. So, the momentum was shifting but Lowry was not called on to do any hero ball.
I feel bad for Jose, not Lowry. Imagine playing the way your are, all-star level, and getting subbed out with 7:30 left in the 3rd and not being brought back until 10 seconds left. I don't think Lowry is the issue; however, if not anything else he is bad luck. When he plays a major part of the 4th, our record has to be atrocious (not saying it isn't overall as well).

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If he wouldn't be blowing leads with his play to start the 3rd he wouldn't be pulled out. Casey said the PG that plays the best will get the majority of the minutes.

It would be a pretty upsetting if Lowry didn't re-sign

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Chr1s1anL wrote:

If he wouldn't be blowing leads with his play to start the 3rd he wouldn't be pulled out. Casey said the PG that plays the best will get the majority of the minutes.

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who blew the lead, jose or the raptors?

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Chr1s1anL wrote:

If he wouldn't be blowing leads with his play to start the 3rd he wouldn't be pulled out. Casey said the PG that plays the best will get the majority of the minutes.

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At least acknowledge you were completely wrong about the gameflow, it takes away any credibility.

In fairness to both in this game, there was a lot of standing around and settling for jumpers by the wings. Neither PG is going to be incredibly effective if the other 4 guys are standing around like they are waiting for a bus. At least Lowry could make something happen one on one, but when other guys are failing to execute (not cutting, not setting screens), that's all there is.

On a few of the "hero ball" possessions, I didn't see the rest of the team doing much either. That's going to screw up both JC's or KL's play. I don't think the problem in this game was the PG situation.

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knickz wrote:

who blew the lead, jose or the raptors?

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Casey blew the lead with his bulshit coaching decisions. Take out the hot hands.

lowry's not stupid, he knows there is a trade deadline and things won't be like this forever.

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Chr1s1anL wrote:

People are going to be going for Lowry's head for playing "Hero Ball" after this game. Well im going to come to his defense. How many more times are the starters going to put him in that situation? This is like the third straight time that the starters have either blown a lead or just gotten blown out in the third. They than put Lowry in the position where he has to save the day. Calderon comes out and lays a goose egg than Lowry comes in and get us back in the game. He than has to play the rest of the game without a break. It's not fair to Lowry. Can we just knock the BS off and just START HIM! We gave up a lottery pick for a starter! Not a reserve. If he needs to learn to play with the starters than just let him learn. The season is already lost. What else do we have to lose?

There im done venting!

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Is this real life?

Lowry came in with a 10 point lead with 7 minutes left in the third and played the rest of the way home. Down the stretch he was playing terrible defence, getting abused by Holiday, taking a bunch of bad shots and turning the ball over... but it was all because he didn't get to start the second half?

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Fully wrote:

Is this real life?

Lowry came in with a 10 point lead with 7 minutes left in the third and played the rest of the way home. Down the stretch he was playing terrible defence, getting abused by Holiday, taking a bunch of bad shots and turning the ball over... but it was all because he didn't get to start the second half?

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In fairness, Jose was also getting abused by Holiday, because Holiday is actually pretty good.

PG is not why the Raptors lost this game; in the first half, Holiday was also playing well, but the Raptors had a big lead. Look at the passive play of the wings and the standing around / settling for long jumpers in the second half. A lot of the turnovers forced in the 2nd had more to do with the 76ers defense and the stagnant offense than just the PG for the Raps. That goes for both Jose and Lowry; you can't make a good pass against pressure when nobody is moving to provide you a target, for example.

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Reinholt wrote:

In fairness, Jose was also getting abused by Holiday, because Holiday is actually pretty good.

PG is not why the Raptors lost this game; in the first half, Holiday was also playing well, but the Raptors had a big lead. Look at the passive play of the wings and the standing around / settling for long jumpers in the second half. A lot of the turnovers forced in the 2nd had more to do with the 76ers defense and the stagnant offense than just the PG for the Raps. That goes for both Jose and Lowry; you can't make a good pass against pressure when nobody is moving to provide you a target, for example.

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+1

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Reinholt wrote:

In fairness, Jose was also getting abused by Holiday, because Holiday is actually pretty good.

PG is not why the Raptors lost this game; in the first half, Holiday was also playing well, but the Raptors had a big lead. Look at the passive play of the wings and the standing around / settling for long jumpers in the second half. A lot of the turnovers forced in the 2nd had more to do with the 76ers defense and the stagnant offense than just the PG for the Raps. That goes for both Jose and Lowry; you can't make a good pass against pressure when nobody is moving to provide you a target, for example.

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I agree with a lot of what you're saying, although I do think Lowry was pretty bad in the second half. His shot was off the entire night but he still forced up some bad looks (partially due to the stagnancy of the wings), he was turning the ball over and gambling on D that led to direct layups at the other end and most of his assists came on perimeter swings where Ross or AA knocked down a shot.

And even if I agreed with you 100%... It still doesn't explain this thread?

I think the differing perceptions about Calderon and Lowry have to do with how the issues at the wing and with the lack of offensive creativity flow through to the rest of the offense. When other guys are standing around, settling for long jumpers, or are unable to break down a defense, there are two options as a PG:

- Continue doing what you are supposed to do and try to grind through it (Calderon)
- Break off the offense and try to make things happen yourself (Lowry)

The result of the former will be less volatility, and against bad teams you might grind them away, but against good teams, that's a recipe for a non-embarrassing but near-certain loss. The result of the latter will be a lot more volatility, where you can lose to anyone and beat anyone.

Neither is a recipe for winning, but the problem is not at the PG position; it's the fact that the PGs are being put in that situation to begin with.

Edit:

To take this to its logical extreme: if Lowry was surrounded by Nowitzki, Pau Gasol, Ray Allen, and Shane Battier, to pick four quality players who can all shoot and play offense, the hero ball thing would be an egregious monstrosity and he should be benched immediately.

However if Jose was surrounded by four guys who were all sub 35% shooters, he should take every single shot, and if he kept passing and deferring, he would be viewed as a fool and should be benched immediately.

The current situation is somewhere in the ugly middle, where you have just barely passable offensive players at many positions, meaning there's really no great answer, and both options are various degrees of bad. But my core argument here is that the PGs are the symptom, not the disease, and both the hero ball from Lowry and the need for Calderon's passing are a result of greater issues elsewhere. Blaming the PGs is blaming the best players for the flaws of the worst.

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The Coach wrote:

In the second half, the Raps went up by 19 with Jose on the court... they started playing poorly and Jose got pulled for Lowry with 7:30 left in the 3rd and they were STILL UP BY 9. So, the momentum was shifting but Lowry was not called on to do any hero ball.
I feel bad for Jose, not Lowry. Imagine playing the way your are, all-star level, and getting subbed out with 7:30 left in the 3rd and not being brought back until 10 seconds left. I don't think Lowry is the issue; however, if not anything else he is bad luck. When he plays a major part of the 4th, our record has to be atrocious (not saying it isn't overall as well).

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Ffs, I think we've had a pretty good sample of what Calderon can and cannot do. He is not an allstar by any stretch of the imagination. (otherwise allstar has no meaning) He's had his chance. Give Lowry his!

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knickz wrote:

who blew the lead, jose or the raptors?

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Jose blew the inbound with a 2 pt lead and the ball, seconds left.

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Fully wrote:

I agree with a lot of what you're saying, although I do think Lowry was pretty bad in the second half. His shot was off the entire night but he still forced up some bad looks (partially due to the stagnancy of the wings), he was turning the ball over and gambling on D that led to direct layups at the other end and most of his assists came on perimeter swings where Ross or AA knocked down a shot.

And even if I agreed with you 100%... It still doesn't explain this thread?

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The reason the wings are stagnant when Lowry is on the floor is because they don't bother to makes cuts because they don't think Lowry will see them. Amir and now Ed understand perfectly that if they make cuts or roll to the basket Jose will get them the ball. That is the way basketball should be played. This does not happen for them when Lowry is at the point. Why make the cut if your PG is not going to deliver the ball?