Terrence Ross VS DeMar DeRozan

As much as we all know Toronto is a beautiful city - it remains in the shadows when it comes to luring free agents.

I guess that is where I understand that a talented young SG under contract around $9-10M, is an asset better than $10M in cap space to go find talent ... sign assets, and build through trades ... just waiting for that trades part (can't happen for Demar until summer anyhow).

Off topic, sorry.

T-Ross in year 4 (where Demar is now) is a scary thought ... hopefully he doesn't end up as sweetener in a deal.

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BasketballCrush wrote:

A franchise can not afford to loose a perennial allstar for nothing.)

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It's happened 3 times in this team's history (McGrady (although not an allstar when he was here), Carter and Bosh). It takes eons for a franchise to recover from such gross displays of asset mismanagement.

The sad thing is that Babcock did better than Bryan, when it came to getting something for the investment the franchise made in Carter. Toronto completely lost out on Bosh under Bryan's tenure. I still don't know how he did not lose his job that year. That is a serious asset that got lost on his watch.

DeRozan was only in college for 1 year as apposed to T Ross who stayed for 2 -3 years

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Papa Burgundy wrote:

As much as we all know Toronto is a beautiful city - it remains in the shadows when it comes to luring free agents.

I guess that is where I understand that a talented young SG under contract around $9-10M, is an asset better than $10M in cap space to go find talent

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I think this says it all. Star-type Talents are NOT coming here voluntarily. Maybe tomorrow, but NEVER in our past history - unless Turk is being defined as a Star talent. That includes when Raps were No. 1 in the East.

For all the bitching against BC (and he does deserve it for parts of Raptor history), the Canadian aspect is a fundamental flaw overlooked in many arguments thrown around here, and other Blog sites. As far as I'm concerned, Colangelo has made good draft picks. Andrea - for all his warts - was the best talent [as per Smitch], taking into account (as Smitch said), the concerns with Roy's knees. Davis & DeRozen were considered picks that "fell" to the Raptors. Jonas is our chance at a Star talent - I really believe he will find himself in the All-Star game within 2 - 3 years (if not sooner). And Ross - despite going higher then expected - may turn out to be a real gem.

This is not to suggest everything is rosy with BC, but I'd like to see some quality GM (who's willing to relocate to the Great White North), be able to draw talent to Toronto - even if we manage to develop another Vince, or almost-equivalent, and are a play-off team.

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BasketballCrush wrote:

The sad thing is that Babcock did better than Bryan, when it came to getting something for the investment the franchise made in Carter. Toronto completely lost out on Bosh under Bryan's tenure. I still don't know how he did not lose his job that year. That is a serious asset that got lost on his watch.

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Really?
You do remember Alonso - I'm not playing here / Okay .. you're released & here's 9 million bucks - Mourning.

Dec 17/2004 Trade
To Toronto
Eric Williams
Aaron Williams
Alonzo Mourning - bought out [Medical issues ??? wtf], and shortly after, joined Miami & won a Ring in 2006.
2005 1st Round pick [16th] - Joey Graham
2006 1st Round pick [20th] - Traded to New York [Renaldo Balkman] along with Jalen Rose for Antonio Davis, who was released 2 months later (back issues)

To New Jersey
VINCE CARTER

[Edit]
So .... Raps got Eric & Aaron Williams + Joey ..... for Vince Carter - the best Raptor player to this date. And way better then Chris Bosh ... IMO.
.

July 2010 Trade
To Toronto
Toronto's 1st pick comes back
Miami's 1st pick - later traded for James Johnson
14.5 Million Trade Exception - partially used.

To Miami - Sign & Trade
Chris "the air smells different here" Bosh

If I'm not mistaken, Kyle Lowry wouldn't be here, had the pick not returned to Toronto (ie. Can't have lottery protected picks "floating" out there - so to speak)

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Nilanka wrote:

Let's not forget that DeRozan had a double team magnet (i.e Bosh) to help his offense as a rookie. Ross doesn't have that luxury.

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Good point.
However, from my perspective - and as Papa B says below - there are a number of variables that come into play. My summary is:

1) Demar played against Starters, while Ross learns against Bench guys
2) Demar played WITH Starters, but was 3rd Option (behind Bosh & Bargs) - less focus from Opponent

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Papa Burgundy wrote:

There are so many variables ... but I'd go with minutes as the big comparison.

Eventhough starting seems like more was given to Demar, when is a rookie more likely to get some looks or a role - with the A unit, or a bench mob?

What is of real interest is how TRoss already has signs of so many pieces to his game. He is:

-Arguably the Raptors best 3pt threat (only better % from PG's who may not shoot as often)
-Able to create his own shot off the dribble. Not much in the lane, but his jumper gets lots of space for what he needs!
-Gets in the lane for steals, without cheating and giving up blow-bys. Many of his highlights are fast breaks where he created it.

Demar is a good NBA player, and I think his contract is not too far off his value. I do think TRoss is the preferred option of the future if he starts to add some consistency to his game. SG's need to be able to space the floor with shooting.

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As you say, Terrence seems to have more going for him - even comparing 3+ years of DD to Rookie Ross.

1) Better Defender
2) Better perimeter shooter (and Ross just started)
3) Demar can fly - when given the opportunity - however, TRoss can really fly

As for Demar's contract, like it was said above, 10 million cap space doesn't seem to get us much. We had 14.5 million from the Bosh trade. Suffice to say, that large cap space fell to the supply & demand weakness. Today - with the new CBA - it has more weight.

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DeRozan has to start playing the 3 so Ross can start at the 2 there I said it...

RapthoseLeafs, 2 first round picks is still better than what we got for Bosh (regardless what Kelly made them turn out to be, it could of easily been Granger). Babcock was bad, but not Bryan Colangelo bad.

Hopefully we don't need to choose between them and Demar can slide over to the 3 (as mentioned above). Gerald Wallace clocks in a 6 ft 7 and 220 lbs, compared to 6 ft 7 and 216lbs for Demar (espn). Didn't see the game after the first quarter as I had to study but I'm pretty impressed by Demar's 9 assists - he's figuring out what to do when those double teams come. If you look at his assist numbers as the season has gone on, the progression has be slow and steady:
Nov - 1.9; Dec - 2.1; Jan - 2.3; last 5 games - 5.6.

If I had to pick, though, I'd take Ross. His shot is too pretty to pass up (although maybe he needs to learn when to pass it up), and he's already the better defender.

For arguments sake, Demar Derozan is the better player as of now. In five years, maybe Terrence Ross. Demar Derozan is the main focal point for opposing teams' defenses now and he is still managing to score. He is constantly working on his game and is never satisfied. As for Terrence Ross, he is a streaky shooter with good form, and he has freak athleticism. To compare them both in their rookie years, they are pretty much identical. A lot of raw talent and showed/s flashes of greatness. If the two of them stay together in Toronto, it will be a bright future! This season is a bust, but the next few years will be very exciting.

Holy shit why is Bryan Colangelo still here?

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NoPropsneeded wrote:

DeRozan was only in college for 1 year as apposed to T Ross who stayed for 2 -3 years

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This is actually a huge part of Demar's development. Derozan came into the league way too raw. Had Derozan stayed in a very good USC program for a another year or two, his skills would be better now, as opposed to currently with 1 year. College ball prepares you by playing against bigger players, stronger defenses, and Demar only had a year of that.

At least neither of them are Austin Rivers. It also poses the question say we land Rudy Gay that means Ross is coming off the bench indefinitely unless of course there is injury. Maybe to maximize offense we slide Gay to PF and he plays beside DeRozan and Ross Lowry and JV respectively playing the 4 works great for Melo in Knickland.

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RapthoseLeafs wrote:

Really?
You do remember Alonso - I'm not playing here / Okay .. you're released & here's 9 million bucks - Mourning.

Dec 17/2004 Trade
To Toronto
Eric Williams
Aaron Williams
Alonzo Mourning - bought out [Medical issues ??? wtf], and shortly after, joined Miami & won a Ring in 2006.
2005 1st Round pick [16th] - Joey Graham
2006 1st Round pick [20th] - Traded to New York [Renaldo Balkman] along with Jalen Rose for Antonio Davis, who was released 2 months later (back issues)

To New Jersey
VINCE CARTER

[Edit]
So .... Raps got Eric & Aaron Williams + Joey ..... for Vince Carter - the best Raptor player to this date. And way better then Chris Bosh ... IMO.
.

July 2010 Trade
To Toronto
Toronto's 1st pick comes back
Miami's 1st pick - later traded for James Johnson
14.5 Million Trade Exception - partially used.

To Miami - Sign & Trade
Chris "the air smells different here" Bosh

If I'm not mistaken, Kyle Lowry wouldn't be here, had the pick not returned to Toronto (ie. Can't have lottery protected picks "floating" out there - so to speak)

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That pick was a full lottery protected pick between 2010 and 2015. So if the Raptors made the playoffs that pick would then go back to Miami. The deal with Houston was the opposite. If the Raptors failed to make the playoffs the pick was theirs (unless it was top 3 in 2013, top 2 in 2014, etc). So the Raptors could have still swung that deal with Houston even if Miami kept that pick.

I actually agree with BasketballCrush.. the Bosh trade was worse than the Carter trade. Both were brutal, but BC should have had better hindsight with Bosh than Babcock had with Carter. Carter killed his trade value by playing like sh!t purposely. Bosh was pretty awesome in his contract year with Toronto. He just took his sweet ass time recovering from his injury.

i wanna see Ross slash a little more then we'll see. He's already a great shooter and defender but i wanna see if he can drive through traffic and throw it down. He's got a little T Mac in his game but he needs to improve his passing and slashing abilities.

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Rapstor4Life wrote:

DeRozan has to start playing the 3 so Ross can start at the 2 there I said it...

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with casey anything is possible

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RaptorReuben wrote:

This is actually a huge part of Demar's development. Derozan came into the league way too raw. Had Derozan stayed in a very good USC program for a another year or two, his skills would be better now, as opposed to currently with 1 year. College ball prepares you by playing against bigger players, stronger defenses, and Demar only had a year of that.

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Have to factor in that DeMar came out of college early because of his mother.