Have we entered an alternate universe? Are the Raptors buyers?

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Craiger wrote:

LA didn't care about financial burden. Now with the new cap rules I wouldn't be so certain. They'll still consistently be a bigger spender than most, but not year in and year out like they use to be.

Bolded part - exactly.

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I still don't buy it. The only possible expiring contracts they will want are of players they might want to keep and re-sign. That's why I think they'll push hard for Howard's buddy Josh Smith. He's expiring, and though he's seeking a max deal (any team would be stupid to do that), if they have his bird rights and he's at all concerned with winning, they should be able to offer him enough money and convince him to stay.

I really see no reason why LA would adjust their strategy anymore than they literally would have to in order to fit the new rules. They will spend as much as they can to keep winning.

*Basically you believe (or did earlier in the year) that doing Bargs for Pau straight up was a good trade for LA. That's crazy. LA gets a reduction in talent, and doesn't truly gain any flexibilty as they lose their best trade piece for a worse one in Bargs, and the money they'd "save" on Calderon is probably already money over the cap for them so they can't use it for anything.

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octothorp wrote:

I just tossed Haddadi into ESPN's trade machine and it says a player we acquire in a trade cannot be traded in combination with other players for two months (but can be traded by himself).

By my count, there's three possible frameworks for Gasol, limiting it to two teams:
Bargnani + Gray + Lucas + Anderson
Bargnani + Kleiza + Anderson
Bargnani + Fields

We lose a lot of depth in the first trade, but I'd probably go for it. But it relies on Anderson consenting and waiving his bird rights. If Anderson refuses, then the trade is pretty-much impossible. Gray + Lucas + Acy isn't enough salary. The second scenario also involves Anderson, but here, if he refuses, you could swap in Acy and the numbers would work. But I don't think LA, with their tenuous salary situation, take on Kleiza. Realistically, I don't think LA would go for any of these.
The third is the most interesting, because Fields is actually a pretty decent asset (and the one that I would least want to trade. I really like Fields' game). But it doesn't give LA much cap relief. They may find the first scenario preferable because it allows them to clear a decent amount of cap space.

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The middle trade would be a dream.

Top trade would be alright but that leaves no backup PG on the roster.

Including Fields would be tough. He is overpaid but I think he comes back next year with his shot and he does so many intangibles that he is a fantastic bench player.

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Craiger wrote:

LA didn't care about financial burden. Now with the new cap rules I wouldn't be so certain. They'll still consistently be a bigger spender than most, but not year in and year out like they use to be.

Bolded part - exactly.

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The key is winning. They are willing to spend if they are winning.

They are looking at a $130M payroll this year (w/ tax) for a team that may not make the playoffs (but I think they do).

I know bargs had little value this year to begin with.. but I feel like colangelo got a little too hyper and excited about the gay trade that he let his guard down and completely threw away what ever value bargs had left by revealing how dispensable and worthless he is to this team.. though he would have gotten backlash from fans I feel like he should have played it off as tho bargnani would thrive with our new lineup when he comes back and that he still has confidence in him.. I just think we will be lucky to get even a solid backup pg for him at this point.. tho I would love to see better and I think gasol would fit in great here

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FoxMachine wrote:

I know bargs had little value this year to begin with.. but I feel like colangelo got a little too hyper and excited about the gay trade that he let his guard down and completely threw away what ever value bargs had left by revealing how dispensable and worthless he is to this team.. though he would have gotten backlash from fans I feel like he should have played it off as tho bargnani would thrive with our new lineup when he comes back and that he still has confidence in him.. I just think we will be lucky to get even a solid backup pg for him at this point.. tho I would love to see better and I think gasol would fit in great here

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I think Bargnani's value is set around the league regardless of what Colangelo says or doesn't say.

The part of Colangelo's comment that is not getting much attention is he is not going to trade Bargnani just for the sake of trading him.

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Matt52 wrote:

I think Bargnani's value is set around the league regardless of what Colangelo says or doesn't say.

The part of Colangelo's comment that is not getting much attention is he is not going to trade Bargnani just for the sake of trading him.

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I do agree with you, but I also think he is coming off as a little desperate to trade him even tho he said that which cant help but lower whatever value he has.. he has said he is for sure not done making moves and everyone in the league knows how bad he wants to get rid of him.. they all probably feel like they can control the negotiations.. but who knows

The only way im doing a gasol deal is if its bargs and klezia gone... I would much prefere a 3 way deal with minny and getting back pieces like Luke R, D-Will and or (in whatever combination) pekovic. Also i would be happier to deal bargs for something like okafor and a pick or in some way if we could get our hands on Josh Smith, the thing that worries me is him leaving at end of year which would be very possible, if he would sign to a realistic non max contract before the deal was made that could be a major major move for the Raps. Also wouldnt mind any of Utahs bigs (mill sap, favours, jefferson.) Jefferson would intrigue me the most for two reasons one, i think we need a true C which he would provide and two he is coming off the books at the end of the year meaning we could resign for a lower contract next year if he worked out (debatable, not very athletic not enough ball for him as well possibly.) Or that leaves us with 10 mill coming off books to allow BC to do whatever with, maybe attempt to sign a josh smith or paul milsap?

I'm not crazy about Gasol, basically because he's old, on the decline and would likely only be in Toronto for a year-and-half. I agree that the team needs another PF, ideally a veteran under 29, but I'm not convinced Gasol is worth the investment (unless the deal is Bargnani + Kleiza + Anderson + 1/2/3 2nd round picks for him).

I'd love to add a young PF to the talented young core we are developing:
C: Valanciunas (20)
PF: Johnson (25)
SF: Gay (26), Fields (24)
SG: DeRozan (23), Ross (21)
PG: Lowry (26)

If we could acquire a veteran backup PG before the deadline and/or sign one in the offseason, in addition to finding that elusive PF (Millsap is 27), this team's 9-man rotation would be set and be able to grow together for years!

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FoxMachine wrote:

I do agree with you, but I also think he is coming off as a little desperate to trade him even tho he said that which cant help but lower whatever value he has.. he has said he is for sure not done making moves and everyone in the league knows how bad he wants to get rid of him.. they all probably feel like they can control the negotiations.. but who knows

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im not sure rival GM's feel BC is desperate.. but im sure they've seen & heard how desperate the T.O fan base is to get rid of Bargs & thats prob. not going to help BC any

I think I would rather some depth then shoot for someone like Gasol. I feel we should see if Amir is our PF for the next while or not.

I'd like a deal between Milwaukee and Raps:

Raps get- Ekpe Udoh, Sam Dalembert
Mil get- Bargnani, Anderson

or even something with the Pistons

Kleiza& Anderson for someone like Maxiell

I voted no, based on the fact that the Lakers will likely ask for something I wouldn't want to give up. If we could nab Gasol for a deal similar to Bargnani, AA and Kleiza then I'd do it .. but I don't see why the Lakers would.

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joey_hesketh wrote:

I voted no, based on the fact that the Lakers will likely ask for something I wouldn't want to give up. If we could nab Gasol for a deal similar to Bargnani, AA and Kleiza then I'd do it .. but I don't see why the Lakers would.

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Agreed. I wouldn't trade any of our 7 young core players. The poll needed a 3rd option of "maybe"! lol

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Checkines wrote:

Kleiza& Anderson for someone like Maxiell

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Why go after anyone close to a Maxiell? Amir has proven to be, at the very least, a very good option for first-big off the bench, and I can't see Maxiell being much different than the ED/Amir combo that everyone got sick of. AND we've got Acy .. who is going to be Maxiell in 2 years. Haha

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FoxMachine wrote:

I do agree with you, but I also think he is coming off as a little desperate to trade him even tho he said that which cant help but lower whatever value he has.. he has said he is for sure not done making moves and everyone in the league knows how bad he wants to get rid of him.. they all probably feel like they can control the negotiations.. but who knows

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You may be right but BC/Raps have had major wood for Gay for years. It worked out in the end, I think.

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joey_hesketh wrote:

Why go after anyone close to a Maxiell? Amir has proven to be, at the very least, a very good option for first-big off the bench, and I can't see Maxiell being much different than the ED/Amir combo that everyone got sick of. AND we've got Acy .. who is going to be Maxiell in 2 years. Haha

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Well I think at this point of the season it's much more worthwhile to get a serviceable big off the bench. Gives us some depth for a potential run to the playoffs, but also doesn't hinder us any more. Besides he is an expiring contract at the end of the season

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Matt52 wrote:

You may be right but BC/Raps have had major wood for Gay for years. It worked out in the end, I think.

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that's true, but I think its a little different when ur trying to get rid of a player than when you're going after one because you're probably gonna get rid of the player regardless whereas if the price is too high for a player you want, you just look somewhere else.

At the same token, Memphis has hinted getting rid of gay for a long time now but seemed much less desperate than BC does now. I would argue that we controlled those negotiations pretty well considering what we gave up to get Gay :D

thoughts on something like this, of course depending on a resign or not and the $value...
http://espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=bkc97np
Also maybe an ATL pick going to PHX

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CalgaryRapsFan wrote:

I'm not crazy about Gasol, basically because he's old, on the decline and would likely only be in Toronto for a year-and-half. I agree that the team needs another PF, ideally a veteran under 29, but I'm not convinced Gasol is worth the investment (unless the deal is Bargnani + Kleiza + Anderson + 1/2/3 2nd round picks for him).

I'd love to add a young PF to the talented young core we are developing:
C: Valanciunas (20)
PF: Johnson (25)
SF: Gay (26), Fields (24)
SG: DeRozan (23), Ross (21)
PG: Lowry (26)

If we could acquire a veteran backup PG before the deadline and/or sign one in the offseason, in addition to finding that elusive PF (Millsap is 27), this team's 9-man rotation would be set and be able to grow together for years!

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That is the hope.

I still very much want Pau Gasol on this team. Regardless of how bad he is playing this year, he is still a top 5 PF and has one of the highest basketball IQ's in the league. We'd instantly be a legitimate playoff team if we were to acquire him, even if it means losing Demar.

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Checkines wrote:

I think I would rather some depth then shoot for someone like Gasol. I feel we should see if Amir is our PF for the next while or not.

I'd like a deal between Milwaukee and Raps:

Raps get- Ekpe Udoh, Sam Dalembert
Mil get- Bargnani, Anderson

or even something with the Pistons

Kleiza& Anderson for someone like Maxiell

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I don't know man. I love Amir, but I truly believe he is what he is, and that's ideally just a 3rd big or hustle big. He'll never be in the same class as guys like Gasol, Millsap and Smith....So why not try to get one? I'd be very happy if we managed to turn Bargnani into Gasol or Millsap somehow. It's not like Amir still won't play big minutes as the 3rd big.

Also, while I have nothing against Maxiell, it's a pretty lame trade. His contract is expiring, but does anyone believe Kleiza won't be amnestied? And why would Detroit want LK, since they can't amnesty him....Also, Maxiell is basically an older Quincy Acy. It would give depth, but really, why not just give Acy minutes if you're going to play an undersized 4 who liked to dunk.