Clarity

Serenity now. Yesterday was a big game. We hung in there with a better team which I normally applaud (and I still do) but we lost the game and that's a two game swing on the team we're chasing for 8th. The only way we make the playoffs is through a series of random events and there's no point in trying to plan for that. Next season starts now and that's not a bad thing. If a miracle has to happen for this crew to get to the playoffs, let that miracle happen with JV and TRoss on the floor. They'll be there next year. Let them make their mistakes now.

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Jclaw wrote:

Serenity now. Yesterday was a big game. We hung in there with a better team which I normally applaud (and I still do) but we lost the game and that's a two game swing on the team we're chasing for 8th. The only way we make the playoffs is through a series of random events and there's no point in trying to plan for that. Next season starts now and that's not a bad thing. If a miracle has to happen for this crew to get to the playoffs, let that miracle happen with JV and TRoss on the floor. They'll be there next year. Let them make their mistakes now.

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I am not sure the management team and coaching staff agree with you.

I think Casey is going to ride with the vets as long as they have any mathematical shot at the playoffs. After that? Not sure. Depends on what happens at the trade deadline and what direction they are going. I don't think they know.

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slaw wrote:

I am not sure the management team and coaching staff agree with you.

I think Casey is going to ride with the vets as long as they have any mathematical shot at the playoffs. After that? Not sure. Depends on what happens at the trade deadline and what direction they are going. I don't think they know.

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Finishing 9th, and giving OKC the worst possible pick, would be a small victory ;)

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Nilanka wrote:

Finishing 9th, and giving OKC the worst possible pick, would be a small victory ;)

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Gottta love that silver lining

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Nilanka wrote:

Finishing 9th, and giving OKC the worst possible pick, would be a small victory ;)

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It also opens up future 1st round picks as tradeable assets again, as quickly as possible. It's a double silver lining!

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Nilanka wrote:

Finishing 9th, and giving OKC the worst possible pick, would be a small victory ;)

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I am down with this as well, small victory for the club, and some good development time for Ross and JV.

and hopefully get the rooks acclimated to playing with Lowry and Gay, so next year they can REALLY hit the ground running.

Absolutely. Play the kids and aim for ninth. Win-win. If we hit eighth by mistake, so be it.

everyone take their rose colored glasses off please. Terrence ross and Jonas Valanciunas are as raw as they come (talented and physically capable albeit), you have to respect how much ed davis improved this season under casey's tutelage, and he too often got the quick hook(even after bargnani went down with injury).

I don't think letting them play through mistakes will help them develop, and could even hinder the rooks's progress. Let them earn their minutes, we are out of the playoff picture, there is no urgency for them to play, I trust casey when it comes to developing talent.

I'm all for anything that gets Ross and JV on the floor. I can't blame the coach for trying to keep focused on that goal of the playoffs, but I still disagree with his methods and find them somewhat shortsighted. This team's future is in Ross and JV, even with the Gay acquisition. The team improving, and even being able to consider trading Demar, depends on them getting better. I understand the logic behind playing vets. I even understand that this can be very helpful to the young players in sharing experience and pushing/teaching them.

This is where I start to disagree with Casey though....our "vets" are not really guys who have done anything. I don't care if Alan Anderson is battle hardened in leagues worse than the NBA. Now....if our vets were battle hardened NBA guys with playoff experience, like Danny Granger, or even Trevor Ariza....or to go to Raps of years gone by, guys like Willis, Oakley, M Jackson, Bogues, Curry....THOSE ARE VETS. Those guys had real NBA big game experience and at one time, were probably all top 10 or 15 players at their positions. Gray and Anderson are just career end of benchers. They don't know how to win any better than the Raps rookies in the NBA. To keep riding them so much, especially now that the roster is finally almost completely healthy, is a total mystery to me.

again everyone shouldn't be mad at casey, they should be mad at BC that we have 2 win now players (gay and lowry), and 2 players that don't have enough experience to crack the rotation (ross and JV).

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white men can't jump wrote:

I'm all for anything that gets Ross and JV on the floor. I can't blame the coach for trying to keep focused on that goal of the playoffs, but I still disagree with his methods and find them somewhat shortsighted. This team's future is in Ross and JV, even with the Gay acquisition. The team improving, and even being able to consider trading Demar, depends on them getting better. I understand the logic behind playing vets. I even understand that this can be very helpful to the young players in sharing experience and pushing/teaching them.

This is where I start to disagree with Casey though....our "vets" are not really guys who have done anything. I don't care if Alan Anderson is battle hardened in leagues worse than the NBA. Now....if our vets were battle hardened NBA guys with playoff experience, like Danny Granger, or even Trevor Ariza....or to go to Raps of years gone by, guys like Willis, Oakley, M Jackson, Bogues, Curry....THOSE ARE VETS. Those guys had real NBA big game experience and at one time, were probably all top 10 or 15 players at their positions. Gray and Anderson are just career end of benchers. They don't know how to win any better than the Raps rookies in the NBA. To keep riding them so much, especially now that the roster is finally almost completely healthy, is a total mystery to me.

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+1. Vets shouldn't be defined by age or even years played in the NBA. It should be NBA experience. Playing time, situations, responsibilities etc. Guys who've sat at the end of benches their entire career aren't equal to vets with leadership and experience.

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akashsingh wrote:

everyone take their rose colored glasses off please. Terrence ross and Jonas Valanciunas are as raw as they come (talented and physically capable albeit), you have to respect how much ed davis improved this season under casey's tutelage, and he too often got the quick hook(even after bargnani went down with injury).

I don't think letting them play through mistakes will help them develop, and could even hinder the rooks's progress. Let them earn their minutes, we are out of the playoff picture, there is no urgency for them to play, I trust casey when it comes to developing talent.

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I'm not sold on the "Casey developing Ed Davis" angle. Ed has been in Casey's doghouse almost since Day 1. Casey had no choice to start him in the Nets game when he put up 24pts, 12rebs to finally open his eyes. Ed wouldn't even have got the chance to start if Bargs wasn't injured AND Amir got the suspension. Finally, Kyle Lowry going down allowed Jose and Ed to mesh together to showcase Ed's offensive game. Basically a perfect storm for Ed to finally get the opportunity, in spite of Casey, triggered by 2 injuries and a suspension.

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Nilanka wrote:

Finishing 9th, and giving OKC the worst possible pick, would be a small victory ;)

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Agreed. That's best case scenario right now. Although 8th would be nice to watch some playoffs, it would hurt us in the long run. I'd rather give up this years first in a weak draft and have our first for the coming years then make the playoffs, get swept in the first round, pick an average player in the middle of the 1st and have to give up our first rounder in a later year.

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Dunk wrote:

Agreed. That's best case scenario right now. Although 8th would be nice to watch some playoffs, it would hurt us in the long run. I'd rather give up this years first in a weak draft and have our first for the coming years then make the playoffs, get swept in the first round, pick an average player in the middle of the 1st and have to give up our first rounder in a later year.

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Whether we give OKC the 4th pick or the 14th pick is of no consequence. The result is the same for us. We give away our pick.
The only way we can avoid this outcome is by:
a) making the playoffs (0.1% chance?)
b) getting the number 3 pick or higher (1-2% chance?)
Neither of these scenarios seems particularly likely, so the pick is almost certainly gone. What number OKC picks at should have no bearing on our decision making.

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pcrombeen wrote:

Whether we give OKC the 4th pick or the 14th pick is of no consequence. The result is the same for us. We give away our pick.
The only way we can avoid this outcome is by:
a) making the playoffs (0.1% chance?)
b) getting the number 3 pick or higher (1-2% chance?)
Neither of these scenarios seems particularly likely, so the pick is almost certainly gone. What number OKC picks at should have no bearing on our decision making.

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It really shouldn't, but its hard to not care where that pick ends up and who gets picked with that pick. Obviously it doesn't effect our team in any way whether the pick ends up being 4th or 14th. But it would still be much nicer to not have it be a good pick. If everyone thought that way then no one would care that The Bruins got Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel.

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RobertArchibald wrote:

Vets shouldn't be defined by age or even years played in the NBA. It should be NBA experience. Playing time, situations, responsibilities etc. Guys who've sat at the end of benches their entire career aren't equal to vets with leadership and experience.

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I don't entirely agree with this. I agree that being a vet shouldn't be determined by age, but even a player whose been in the league for 7 years as a 7th-15th man definitely has veteran value. First, although their minutes played may not be high, they've stilled practiced with and against NBA players day in and day out for those 7 years. In most cases they must have or have developed other important skills like knowing their role, being a good in the locker room, being smart on the floor, playing to their strengths.

I agree that AA is a veteran of professional basketball leagues not called the NBA, and shouldn't really be considered an NBA veteran he's only played in 53 games (as a bobcat) in the two years he played in the NBA before joining the raps.

I think Gray is a bit of a different animal, despite being drafted 49th overall he's managed to stay in the league and played in 50+ games ever year except the lockout year where he played 41. Gray=Vet, Anderson does not.

That said, there's a report that links nba performance to minutes played in the first few years, with the correlation being the more minutes a player plays the better they become which to makes sense logically. I definitely think that the albatross and JV should be getting at least 10 minutes a game but 15+ if they aren't shitting the bed.

The great thing about vets is that they've learned to provide value from/on the bench. Ross and JV should get more burn.

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Dunk wrote:

If everyone thought that way then no one would care that The Bruins got Seguin and Hamilton for Kessel.

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I don't care, but maybe's that because I don't know what a "Seguin" is... a Leafs avatar and hockey references!?!??!?!?! BOO this man, BOO! ;)

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ezz_bee wrote:

I don't care, but maybe's that because I don't know what a "Seguin" is... a Leafs avatar and hockey references!?!??!?!?! BOO this man, BOO! ;)

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Lol sorry, I'll try to keep hockey references to a minimum ;)