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  • p00ka wrote: View Post
    You both touch on my objection to judging based on blind stats comparisons. Thank you.

    CalgaryRapsFan wants to compare stats of this year's crop of starting SGs to prove some point, yet these players play on different teams, with different teammates, playing different styles, with different opponent mixes, and a different schedule,,,,, and different ages, with different levels of experience. But you guys want to talk different age as the difference factor over stage of career? Okay, carry on.
    I was pointing out a 3 year age difference which in the early 20's hardly creates an apple to apple comparison. If that was part of your point, awesome, glad to be of service.

    Despite your explanation I think your argument here is grasping at straws. CRF was comparing players in the here and now with production versus contract. You raise valid points above with the differences but they are all paid under same salary cap rules and in the same season versus pretty much the same teams. To make your point you decided to compare two players 3rd year production both of whom played 13 years apart with 3 years difference in age. It is just my opinion but your example is hardly the same thing.

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    • akashsingh wrote: View Post
      I really hope derozan can live up to the money he's making next season, so we can trade him. He has such bad footwork, and it sets him up to fail. I think that is what I hate about him the most.
      I am pulling for him. I want to see him succeed in Toronto.

      But I have to say my blood boils when I watch him go in weak for a drive. That pisses me off more than the inconsistency - which I guess can be considered part of the problem of consistency.

      Remember when he tried to physically harm Hibbert on the missed dunk attempt but he was rewarded with 2 FT's? If he did that ALL the time he be scoring more than 20ppg. I hate it when he goes in soft and then scowls at the official. Do that everytime and there is NO issue with the official, DeMar!

      Comment


      • Michel G wrote: View Post
        2. The Raptors were not going to let him walk next year. So they signed him to the best deal they could before he hit the open market. Somebody was going to offer something stupid. Wasn't Taj Gibson given the same contract? The guy's 27-28 years old already and a backup.
        Actually, this is the exact reason why we're having this discussion. They had until a couple months from now to make the evaluation of how much he's worth paying. Understand this: DeRozan was never going to hit the open market. We would have had every right to match anything anyone would send his way. Instead, they went ahead and gave him as much as some of his other draft year peers who have, thus far, completely and utterly outperformed him.

        Looking at what he's doing right now, he's probably worth in the neighborhood of $5M per. Maybe $6M. The $3.3M is certainly a bargain, but in a few months he'll be getting $9.5M. He's simply not worth that much. Stephen Curry was offered around this much, and with the CBA the way it is these days, no one would have been able to offer him $9.5M, nor would they want to. Compare Curry with DeRozan, it's not even close. Curry is carrying his team into the playoffs.
        your pal,
        ebrian

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        • special1 wrote: View Post
          I usually ignore posters when they make ridiculous claims....

          AND always seems like its the same people hating on demar everytime. I can list them....maybe others can add a name or two if i forget others.

          T-REX, Nilanka, CalgaryRapsFan....the usual suspects. "One-dimensional, inefficient, can't dribble, below average, overpaid".....LMAO. A weird bunch of haters you guys are!!

          Demar makes 3.34 million this year! I would say that he's putting up good numbers compared to others in his pay range don't you think???.....Overpaid? Let's say NOT YET! I can come up with a few names on THIS team who are OVERPAID BUT I think you guys are all pretty knowledgeable when it comes to this team

          Do you guys remember Demar when he just came into the league??? Are you honestly going to continue writing posts whine'n about him not being a great player??? Sorry to hear that your expectations were so high, it was clearly unrealistic. Demar is in his 4th year and is a VERY GOOD player for us! Rudy (in his own words) said Demar is the best SG he's EVER played with. I think I would take his word over you incredibly consistent whiners.

          I just hope you temper your expectations of TRoss because you WILL be dissappointed!

          Demar 2012/13 stats (23 years old in his 4th year)- 17.7 ppg, 4.1 rpg, 2.6 apg (one-dimensional??? - GTFOH)

          Demar 2011/12 stats (22 years old in his 3rd year) - 16.7 ppg, 3.3 rpg, 2.0 apg

          Demar 2010/11 stats (21 years old in his 2nd year) - 17.2 ppg, 3.8 rpg, 1.8 apg

          Demar has Career highs in points, rebounds, free throw %, free throw attempts, steals and assists this year and still IMPROVING.....I repeat one dimensional?? LOL hahaha....hilarious

          http://www.nba.com/playerfile/demar_derozan/
          Can he defend his position? I'm still waiting for an answer. I was listening in on Paul Jones' comment today. He said that scoring in the NBA is easy. It's defense that makes you stick to rosters around the league. I tend to agree.
          “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

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          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
            I am pulling for him. I want to see him succeed in Toronto.

            But I have to say my blood boils when I watch him go in weak for a drive. That pisses me off more than the inconsistency - which I guess can be considered part of the problem of consistency.

            Remember when he tried to physically harm Hibbert on the missed dunk attempt but he was rewarded with 2 FT's? If he did that ALL the time he be scoring more than 20ppg. I hate it when he goes in soft and then scowls at the official. Do that everytime and there is NO issue with the official, DeMar!
            "Derozan to the hoop... No call!" - Matt Devlin (at least once every broadcast)
            “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

            Comment


            • His scoring is fool's gold. If Demar's isn't scoring, everyone around here would really be over his defense. My concern is that he is going to his fifth year and the first of his large, shiny new contract. Next year, there will be more expectations for scoring improvement when in reality it's his defense that needs to improve.
              “The saving of our world from pending doom will come, not through the complacent adjustment of the conforming majority, but through the creative maladjustment of a nonconforming minority.” - Martin Luther King

              Comment


              • ebrian wrote: View Post
                Actually, this is the exact reason why we're having this discussion. They had until a couple months from now to make the evaluation of how much he's worth paying. Understand this: DeRozan was never going to hit the open market. We would have had every right to match anything anyone would send his way. Instead, they went ahead and gave him as much as some of his other draft year peers who have, thus far, completely and utterly outperformed him.

                Looking at what he's doing right now, he's probably worth in the neighborhood of $5M per. Maybe $6M. The $3.3M is certainly a bargain, but in a few months he'll be getting $9.5M. He's simply not worth that much. Stephen Curry was offered around this much, and with the CBA the way it is these days, no one would have been able to offer him $9.5M, nor would they want to. Compare Curry with DeRozan, it's not even close. Curry is carrying his team into the playoffs.
                Part of the issue with Curry was his injury history and risk.... but I digress.

                I agree with your post though.

                This detail is what separates the "best value contract in the NBA" list from the current list of which the Raptors have 4 players.

                Comment


                • Chr1s1anL wrote: View Post
                  I'll say it again! How can you hate on this kid?
                  Why do I think that Derozan will continue to improve incrementally each year for the next 2-3 years?

                  Then he may well be in a position where all of his skills are integrated in a balanced manner and he makes a significant leap. If he continues to be a student of the game he should be getting smarter about his play. I know many of you have experienced that moment when some knowledge set or collection of skills is suddenly integrated, and then things become easy...and you wonder why you struggled so much. I suspect we might be on hand to witness this happening with DD. That's the primary reason I would hate to see him traded. I don't know where his ceiling is.

                  Comment


                  • ebrian wrote: View Post
                    Actually, this is the exact reason why we're having this discussion. They had until a couple months from now to make the evaluation of how much he's worth paying. Understand this: DeRozan was never going to hit the open market. We would have had every right to match anything anyone would send his way. Instead, they went ahead and gave him as much as some of his other draft year peers who have, thus far, completely and utterly outperformed him.

                    Looking at what he's doing right now, he's probably worth in the neighborhood of $5M per. Maybe $6M. The $3.3M is certainly a bargain, but in a few months he'll be getting $9.5M. He's simply not worth that much. Stephen Curry was offered around this much, and with the CBA the way it is these days, no one would have been able to offer him $9.5M, nor would they want to. Compare Curry with DeRozan, it's not even close. Curry is carrying his team into the playoffs.
                    DeRozan is worth more that $5M per year. If that's all you think he's worth, what's the point arguing.

                    Curry is going to make $8M more over the length of his contract, so their contracts are not the same. Again, Taj Gibson has basically the same contract as DeMar. Why don't you compare those two instead?

                    Comment


                    • Michel G wrote: View Post
                      You guys crack me up. Great read.

                      1. Stats aside, DeRozan is a better basketball player this year than he was last year. He's never going to be a perennial all-star. I just want him to be the best above average basketball player that he can be. If he makes a couple of all-star games in his career. Great!

                      2. The Raptors were not going to let him walk next year. So they signed him to the best deal they could before he hit the open market. Somebody was going to offer something stupid. Wasn't Taj Gibson given the same contract? The guy's 27-28 years old already and a backup.

                      Demar is defintiely better this year than he was last year. I don't know how good he'll become but I appreciate players that add layers to their game in the off-season. This is your career, work at it.

                      His handles aren't strong and he has a bad habit of spinning in the lane on too many drives and losing the ball when contacted but he is young and I truly believe he could do himself a major favour to his career if he decided to invest a lot more energy in stopping his opponent. He has gotten much better at jumping passing lanes and fighting through screens and he could be far more valuable if he trasformed himself into somewhat of a 'stopper'. He'll have the physical frame for it in 2-3 years.

                      As for his contract my major issue with it is BC gauging the value of one of his players. I would like to let the market decide his worth this time around. I know the logic of trying to get a bargain signing him early to avoid other teams offering him a huge contract but I don't think that was forthcoming (Curry, Holliday got 4 yr 44million) and if you have to pay him a bit more so be it.

                      What if you could end up paying him less than you intended? With Andrea's renewal I think Colangelo overestimated what the league thought of him. I'm not saying Demar won't live up to his new deal but I have concerns with the quick re-up.

                      Comment


                      • Balls of Steel wrote: View Post
                        Can he defend his position? I'm still waiting for an answer. I was listening in on Paul Jones' comment today. He said that scoring in the NBA is easy. It's defense that makes you stick to rosters around the league. I tend to agree.
                        Is DD not sticking here? Did we not just sign him? Apparently he can defend his position (Kobe, Wade, etc obviously can't be stopped). You can say the same thing for ANYONE else on our roster (defending own position)....

                        Comment


                        • Michel G wrote: View Post
                          DeRozan is worth more that $5M per year. If that's all you think he's worth, what's the point arguing.

                          Curry is going to make $8M more over the length of his contract, so their contracts are not the same. Again, Taj Gibson has basically the same contract as DeMar. Why don't you compare those two instead?
                          You're right Curry, is making a bit more but he's light years better than DeRozan. I purposely avoided Taj Gibson (who has a pretty bad contract too) for your benefit. Taj will make $5M less than DeRozan and brings everything the Bulls need at the position. Do you really want to compare the Bulls, who's starting lineup will be making $55M next year to the Raptors, who will be making $47M next year? With Rose they're a 60+ win team. We'll be lucky to win 40 next year.
                          your pal,
                          ebrian

                          Comment


                          • Matt52 wrote: View Post
                            Part of the issue with Curry was his injury history and risk.... but I digress.

                            I agree with your post though.

                            This detail is what separates the "best value contract in the NBA" list from the current list of which the Raptors have 4 players.
                            I guess you're right.. how much do you think he'd get if he were 100% healthy?

                            I think DeRozan is going to be worth $9.5M at some point in his contract, just not right and definitely not for the first season. I think you'll agree we'll have ZERO financial flexibility because of this. This contract is the same thing Colangelo gave to Bargnani when he thought Bargnani was improving and that it was inevitable that he'd get better. Well, he didn't. Same thing for Landry Fields, who was paid based on potential. I was just readidng another thread about Colangelo talking about extending Rudy Gay too. WTF is wrong with our GM?!
                            your pal,
                            ebrian

                            Comment


                            • special1 wrote: View Post
                              I have no doubt Demar will look like a bargain 2-3 years down the road. OBVIOUSLY, its on Demar to prove you haters wrong.
                              2-3 years down the road proves what I've been saying. I'm talking about financial flexibility. There's absolutely no reason to pay a guy how much you think they're going to be worth 3 years from now. As it stands based on your prediction, we could have had around $3M extra to spend over the next two years.
                              your pal,
                              ebrian

                              Comment


                              • ebrian wrote: View Post
                                I guess you're right.. how much do you think he'd get if he were 100% healthy?

                                I think DeRozan is going to be worth $9.5M at some point in his contract, just not right and definitely not for the first season. I think you'll agree we'll have ZERO financial flexibility because of this. This contract is the same thing Colangelo gave to Bargnani when he thought Bargnani was improving and that it was inevitable that he'd get better. Well, he didn't. Same thing for Landry Fields, who was paid based on potential. I was just readidng another thread about Colangelo talking about extending Rudy Gay too. WTF is wrong with our GM?!
                                Bold: Exactly. It is when I finally stopped thinking Colangelo had a plan. For all his talk of flexibility all he has to show for it is..... um, nothing.

                                As for Fields, I'm giving him a pass right now. If you look at his stroke from rookie to now, it is night and day. If he can get back to his 1st year percentages, I like him on the Raps - really do. That is a big IF though.

                                As for Rudy, he is definitely overpaid now, next year, and following at $19M. If he could get a deal in the $13-14M range, I think that is fair. I also thinK Rudy is better than he has shown. If he can return to career %'s and the Raps find a better offense than jump shot after jump shot..... more IFs. Ah sh!t, we be fudged.

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